Belief Is The Key

Cracking read.

I just hope the blues don’t let us down in another derby or two and yes I fucking hate them as well.

Ok.. I?m getting the "Moyes lacks the killer instinct" argument ? but Moyes can?t be held responsible for the actions of one his players and for ridiculous refereeing decisions. You play the game for the good of the team thats what Moyes did ? Felliani shouldn?t have earned himself 10 yellows in under 20 games in the first place.

Good read that, Tony. As you know, we rarely sing from the same hymn sheet and we’ve exchanged the odd cross word on here. I liked your article though - fair and balanced, I’d say.

However, I disagree that Moyes’ decision to leave Fellaini on the pitch crushes any notion that he is a top manager. He sent the big lad out there to help control the game for 15 minutes and specifically asked him to avoid any unnecessary challenges. He basically told the lad he trusted him. As we all know, that backfired and Fellaini will now miss two derbies. But, in my opinion, that doesn’t make it a bad decision.

Moyes wanted to win the game against Hull and knew that Fellaini had played a huge part in our first half dominance. If he’d taken him off and Hull had scored on 50 minutes (they have, after all, scored in every other away game this season) we’d have been on edge for 40 minutes and criticisimg Moyes for thinking he had the game wrapped up at half-time.

I was as frustrated as anyone by Moyes?s decision to keep Fellaini despite the team being 2-0 up at half time but I do accept his justification ? namely that he didn?t want a repeat of the Newcastle debacle.

Personally, I would have been confident enough to put Castillo on in his stead to keep things tight but had that backfired, I?m sure some fans would have reamed him for not focusing on the game at hand and keeping Fellaini on the field.

Having said all that, though, I?m largely ambivalent about missing Mo the ?Fro for the derbies because he?d be a red card waiting to happen in that kind of game. If Shandy Andy could get his marching orders for one of the most innocuous elbow incidents imaginable, I don?t think Fellaini would last half an hour.

That?s a shame, because he certainly brings a lot to the table despite his flaws but we?ll see how the team adapts without him starting Monday.

It really is bizarre coming on this website. Clever people who have chosen the greatest team in the world to support simply cannot conceive that Hull could have made a come back and hence we should take each game as it comes on its individual merits. That means playing for and winning 3 points WITH our record signing. Are some of you SO stupid you cannot even CONCEIVE of a Hull comeback? Give me the 3 points and let?s move on.

Well done Marsh for giving a bit of credit ? I thought it was beyond you. I openly admit I am a Moyes believer but if we go there and roll over twice like earlier in the season then yes it's unforgivable. BUT if we go there with a game plan and do our best (without our top scorer AND record signing) and play with heart and spirit and with an intention to win ? that is all I ask for. COYB Regardless of our thoughts on Ourfella and his booking, let?s unite against the shite. COYB

Good to hear from Mr Marsh. Although I agree that Moyes dithers at times I think that on this occasion he may just have saved the Big Fella from a straight red at the piggery. I actually feel that Fellaini was very lucky to last the 90 mins on Saturday as twice he was shown to have blatantly elbowed an opponent. He got away with that against a smaller team like Hull, you could guarantee against the RS he would have walked. In that situation, under the totting up of points he would probably have missed Arsenal and ManU as well.

Even without him if we play as we have been we still have a chance.

COYB

Yes, it?s payback time in the derby! I?ve got a good feeling that we?ll do them over at least once.

On transfers, as always, I think Moyes should be judged at the end of the transfer window and not somewhere in the middle of it. Surely you can give him that much benefit of the doubt.

A damn good read from Mr. Marsh and not without some merit. However, I too believe that Moyes was right to leave Felliani on for at least another 15 minutes. Ask Man Utd if Hull are capable of come-backs?

Secondly, to quote "when it really means something, we always lose. Semi-finals and finals are always lost when we play the shite and I have had more than my fill over the years." - Too bloody true! Looks like every other manager that’s gone before Moyes was a bottler too!

But I love the stirring sentiment and I too am sick and tired of losing out to the RS. Here’s hoping that our luck’s in over these two matches even without Screech.

Quality read, Tony, nice to see that you are giving credit were credit is due. I?m 100% with you over the Felliani substitution ? why Moyes?s didn?t bring him off half time I?ll never know.

But hey, we gotta carry on with the cards we are dealt and I think we should just swap Castillo for Felli for the 2 games and beat them horrible fuckers!! COYB

Spot on assessment Tony. I have identical emotions. Just get to the point of believing again, and enjoying the performances as well as the results, and DM drops a complete bollock.

Kase Chow, I?m afraid you?re misguided. We are talking about a top 6 team, on form, unbeaten for a while, haven?t conceded a goal for 6 games, playing a promoted team in free-fall. We also had several good young players on the bench who can do a job for us.

As Tony says, David Moyes?s reaction when Fellaini got booked said it all. He suddenly realised he?d screwed up big time. Everton were comfortable enough to switch just one player. Are you seriously suggesting that we only have 11 players that are capable of getting a result for us? Especially when we?re 2 up against a poor & demoralised team?

Taking Fellaini off at half-time was beyond obvious. It was, by all accounts, the talk of the press box too. Had Moyes taken him off there is no way we would have lost and Moyes would have looked strong & decisive. He now looks fucking stupid for risking one of our top players? involvement in key games. It was crass. He has great difficulty making decisions when they are not forced upon him.

Tony, Alan, very simple question: as long suffering Evertonians (as I am), have you EVER seen us not take 3 points when we should have? Seriously, it?s a simple question? The answer is obviously a yes Frustrating isn?t it? Well guess what? We got 3 points on Saturday and not taking off ?our Fella? contributed to that: FACT Everything else is conjecture.

Mo the ’Fro didn’t make a yellow card challenge, so instead of blaming Moyes, blame the ref, as you can do with half the guy’s bookings this season.

If we win both games it would probably be my finest moment of supporting Everton in my 31 years behind that of the FA Cup final of ’95. Can’t recall much of winning the title and nothing of Europe.

Kase, the only "facts" are that we got 3 points, that Fellaini was involved in both goals, and that they were scored in the first half. The conjecture starts with the second half, and what Fellaini?s contribution was after his booking, or what might have happened if he had been withdrawn.

Arguably, he did what he always does after getting booked: he disappears. Good thing too from the point of not getting a second yellow, but his involvement in the game and the outcome declines massively thereafter, and to raise the Newcastle spectre, as Moyes did and others have, was faintly ridiculous, as many have pointed out.

The descriptions by Tony and others of Moyes?s crucial failings at critical moments is once again bang on the nail. It is these limitations which have so far prevented him from doing far better than he has in the 7 years he has been with Everton. That's conjecture too, but valid all the same.

Nick, Fellaini was lucky to still be on the pitch after 2 minutes FFS. After another elbow in the kipper for a Hull player and a tackle from behind just before half time from Big Fro, do you honestly think the ref wasn't going to book him? It was a no-brainer mate. Moyes didn't do his job properly. End of story. I am suprised Felaini actually stayed on the pitch to be honest. Once Mo realised he was out of the next 2 games, his performance nosedived anyway. Moyes fucked up live with it.

The other as-yet unspoken part of this Fellaini puzzle is why Moyes chose not to play him at Macclesfield? (A decision I supported, because I thought he was being preserved for the big games ahead.) But Moyes says it’s "one game at a time" and that he does not consider upcoming games in making such decisions ... so that cannot possibly have been the reason.

Why was it then?

Spot on, Tony. The time has come for Moyes to throw away all the negativity to our game when we play any of the so-called top 4. He needs to just go flat out against the shite, get them on the back foot, it will probably surprise them. I?ll forgive Moyes if we get beat, as long as I can say, we had a fucking good go. Like you Tony, I couldn?t take us getting beat again with a whimper.

To tell you the truth, I normally go into the Derby expecting to get beat, but I reckon this time we have a great chance to turn them over. So Davey, suprise us and go for it, you just never know.

Exactly, Michael ? WHY indeed? It's just more vintage Moyes, locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. There is no defence for what transpired at Goodison Park on Saturday. I think we will win at least one game but would've fancied us a lot more with the Big Fella in the side. Anyone who can't see that hasn't got a clue.

Good post, Tony. I don't always agree with you and I have a different opinion on Moyes not subbing Fellaini but you done a great job of getting me all fired up with your rally cry towards the end about how horrible them bastards are and how it's about time we done them and got some revenge for years of heartache and injustice.

I'm looking forward to the games in a weird and nervous kind of way, especially the cup game. It's going to be a great atmosphere with 6,000+ of us there. I?d give anything to beat those bastards. COME ON EVERTON!

Michael, here?s the deal: we played Fellaini and won. We all know comebacks can and do happen. We?ve had a crap start to the season partly due to not winning games we should have won. On Saturday we won. That will do for me-take each game as it comes. Now on to the next and if we don?t give it 100% and give it a go you?re welcome to your moan and negativity.

However we won 3 points against a team we should beat (and did). We didn?t draw or lose or even concede - WE WON and Fellaini contributed. What a wonderful situation to moan about winning 2-0 at home after the start we had. Now onwards and upwards to the next game and reserve your moans for when they?re genuinely deserved.

Tony - great post. For me, it’s not about Fellaini. Since losing the Yak, Saha and Vaughan we could have gone into freefall.Trotted out the excuses - no forwards, no money, crap summer etc etc. We haven’t taken the easy path. We’ve shown plenty of passion, spirit, guts and balls. We’re playing good football. We HAVE stepped up to the plate and showed we are men. Whether you give praise to DM, the players or both for that depends on your viewpoint. COYB.

If Moyes had subbed Fellaini at half time we would have him for next Monday but do you really think that he would have avoided a yellow in the derby? Me neither.

He would miss the cup game and the home game against Arsenal. Personally. I think we have a much better chance of getting a result at home to Arsenal than at the RS next week and for that reason I think that Fellainin getting booked on Saturday may not be such a bad thing. We need to look at the bigger picture.

Don?t get me wrong, I would like nothing better than for us to stuff the RS on the double but history tells me that it ain?t going to happen. I do agree though that we need to show some spirit at Anfield next week and not roll over like we did at Goodison. Another performance like that embarrassment earlier in the season and I will be calling for Moyes head again also........

Tony makes a very important point about not having a striker lined up in the transfer window.

I knew we would be in trouble if Yakubu got injured this season, it is a derelict of duty by the manager to not have a solution to our striking crisis.

We are playing midfielders upfront with strikers on the bench FFS!

Yes, we are ’playing midfielders upfront with strikers (well, using that term loosely given Vic’s the main one we’re talking about) on the bench’, Robbie - and look what the outcome has been. We’re hardly ’in trouble’. IMHO the Tim/Fro combo is the best strike force we’ve had for ages.

What you exemplify, Kase, is Moyes’s negativity ? his fear of losing (which is why he persisted with Fellaini when everyone and their mother knew he was going to get booked) rather than instilling a winning mentality into the team, and building on that. It’s what destroyed us in the first derby this season. Things have improved from then, obviously, but they should never have gotten anywhere near so bad.

The commendable base now is built firmly on not conceding, which has always been Moyes’s first priority. The problem comes when they do concede, because it destroys the players’ confidence in the gameplan. Whether they have improved sufficiently to the point where the desire and conviction of the team Moyes puts out actually reflects that of the fans cheering them on remains to be seen...

Michael, with all due respect, don’t say I’m negative. Read all my posts: I KEEP saying that as long as we give the shite a game, as long as we give 100% and go for it, I’ll be ’happy’ win, lose or draw.

I simply cannot take losing the way we did in the first derby this season - it was probably the worst I’ve felt for ages. Why? Cos we rolled over.

I ain’t negative: I’m realistic. We have limited resources and needed Fellaini against Hull. We don’t have a like for like replacement (Gosling nor Castillo nor others are as good or INFLUENTIAL yet). My opinion is that we needed Fellaini to secure the 3 points and we did secure the 3 points.

It’s not negative to want to hold on to a victory after failing to win so many games this season.

Think about it: it only needs a silly Jags backpass or loss of centration from Lescott to let them back in and then we’re up against it.

Fellaini is a goal threat and a physical influence meaning he stays as a goal threat AND is useful against Hull’s physical approach. It stuns me that you can’t CONCEIVE of not taking the 3 points after the season we’ve had thus far.

Use your imagination Michael. The game was not won at half time

Quite frankly it?s a relief Fellaini isn?t playing in the derby matches, as I won?t be worrying about which cards the ref will show him & when (yellow Monday then red in the cup, I reckoned). Perhaps moyes was thinking much the same...

You know what? We should have beaten Boro, we should have beaten Newcastle, we should have beaten Villa. We could even have beaten United and Chelsea.

I’m so sick of letting 3 points slip through our fingers.

So on Saturday, HOWEVER SO, we got what we deserved this season at home (for 1 of the few times this season) - we got 3 points. 3 damn points and Moyes secured them by keeping our best team on the pitch

Yes Kase we got 3 points but to most of us they were in the bag at half time.
Fate has conspired to draw us against the red shite in the FA Cup in the same week we play them in the Premier League. This is big FFS. Everton FC can not afford to be drubbed twice in a week at Anfield. Our season is being brought to a head at Anfield in the space of six days. Fuck the Hull game. How good will those 3 points look if we get done twice due to lack of height or goal threat? Do you think the likes of Ferguson would risk Rooney or Ronhaldo in the same circumstances? I don't think so.

Tony,

It?s not that I don?t understand your point ? I just disagree with it.

Moyes?s primary intention was to secure the immediate 3 points in front of him i.e against Hull. And he played his best team in order to do just that. And he achieved his aim.

Ferguson makes mistakes as well ? just of a different nature: he lost to the shite by playing 3 forwards (Tevez, Berbatov and Rooney). He also lost to Derby by not risking Rooney & Ronaldo from the start.

You could argue that at least he tried to be positive at Anfield or that he doesn?t prioritise the league cup or that he expects to win the 2nd leg. Either way, we can?t exactly compare like for like situations can we? (Otherwise this argument could go on all day: why didn?t Benitez risk Torres against Stoke etc.)

Moyes has certain resources at his disposal and as all good teams? ethos is: take 1 game at a time so he did and we beat Hull. We?re not sitting here at our computers having blown 2 points: we?re actually arguing about the manner of a victory ? I actually find the nature of this argument a ?luxury? after the start to our season.

I don?t disagree that having Fellaini against the shite would improve our chances of a victory against them (note I say victory because like you, that?s what I want ? not just a draw). But, so would the confidence of yet another victory and yet another clean sheet ? and we got both.

Tony, I ask you and Michael and whoever else to reserve judgement until after BOTH derbies. If we play crap, roll over twice and show no heart, then yes, get mad, get angry, get upset cos I will.

But what you guys consider to be ?in the bag? at half-time isn?t necessarily so. So we won against Hull and we look forward to Moyes motivating whoever steps in to perform the game(s) of their lives, to sweat blood, to put their bodies on the line for the match and the fans. The result doesn?t necessarily rest with Fellaini: let?s see what we can produce.

The last time I went to Anfield we beat them 2-0 when Ratty scored so can someone give me a ticket? I might bring some luck cause I hate them more than anyone.

Kase, I agree to a certain extent but we do not have the luxury of a big squad. Therefore we must utilise what we have to the full extent. I don't think for a minute we will break the top 4 this season so the FA Cup remians our focus. What will 3 points do for us in the long run if our season effectivley ends this month? Not only that but giving the shite an added lift at their place by not being able to put out our best 11 is not what I want to see. Mark my words though, Kase, we will win one of these games. It's written in stone. Don't ask me why I now but I just know.

Dennis,
if Screech was booked on Monday he would not be able to play in the next two matches.

It may be a dream but let's back the boys to win both games. Sure I could be more realistic but that isn?t going to improve our chances. I agree with Tony we should go in all guns blazing. No point in going half-arsed. Even if we loose I would rather we have a good crack than die wondering, because we don?t stand a chance if we just sit back.

Just a question: would you rather have Fellaini in for the derbies, one a meaningless FA Cup game, or both league games against Arsenal and Man Utd? If he?d've got booked in the FA Cup game he would've missed both league games. The league is more important, get off Moyes's back. Fellaini elbowed Turner and should've got a red ? would this of been Moyes's fault as well, some people will never be happy with him.

I disbelieve that so many people can commend Tony on a "balanced" or "Quality read" story (story is used deliberately). I think Tony is entitled to have his opinion which he quite rightly states, but how does Moyes win with you. If he had taken Felliani off at half time and we drew 2-2 you would have murdered him.

Regarding negativity, it was inevitable that FellaIni would reach his tenth yellow card before the end of January, and as such no games are good to miss so why take him off? We play Arsenal and United straight after the two red games, whilst not directly as important they are not too far behind.

Moyes has done a cracking job, get off his back and you might actually think the glass is half full for a change!

Probably totally wrong here but we weren?t 2-0 up at half time against Newcastle were we?
I thought it was 2-1.

Like many of the other contributors I don?t often agree with Tony Marsh?s views, but I was one of the many who could not believe that Mo the Fro appeared at the start of the 2nd half against Hull. If I were in charge he would have been taken off.

Having said that I can understand why Moyes did what he did. After all, we also have ManU and the Arse back to back.

The upcoming derby matches are the biggest in years, and we all recognise that. However it really gets on my tits how much we are obsessed with them (I know that it's for good reason). One of my wishes before I die is to see Evertonians look at at fixtures against the Shite with contempt, and not worry about having to keep our best players in cotton wool.

Let's go to the old ground and show that Rafa prick how a "small" club with a "negative" attitude can play (quote marks in lieu of italics to emphasise sarcasm).

Quote "I hate the lot of you. You bastards have ruined part of my life." Thank you Tony. That?s priceless. It completely sums up my feelings.

Emotions run high whenever Tony Marsh makes a post. I?ll tell you what, the goals Gerrard has been scoring recently see him totally unmarked hanging back just outside the penalty area. If I fucking see him unmarked in those areas against us I?ll be fucking screaming at Arteta and Neville to fucking do a fucking defensive midfield job properly. Don?t fucking let that bastard waltz unmarked outside our box. Regardless of FellaIni playing or not. COYB.

Kase - couldn’t agree more with you and am sorry you seem to be on your own on this website.
Moyes cannot do right for doing wrong. If he had made the substitution and Hull had come back (totally feasable) everyone would have been furious at him for taking him off too early, not having the strength to hold out, and letting three important points go. And the people criticising him on this page would have been the first ones to be sticking the pen in his back!

eric, doesn’t that suspension kick in a week afterwards, with the cup tie less than a week after the league derby?

Like everyone on here i would like nothing more that to stuff those bastards good and proper and have to say that we stood a better chance of doing that with Fellaini on the field. However, i am 100% sure that he would have got at least a yellow in one of these 2 games and would have missed the next two.

The game immediatly after these is arsenal at home, again hugely important and in my opinion very winnable. I think Fellaini is exactly the type of player to cause arsenal all kinds of problems and, although disappointed he wont be playing in the derbies, i think he will be massively important for the arsenal game.

Tony

As usual you’re spot on..this is not about one single incident..this is about Moyes repeating mistakes ad-infintum..

Cahill in a four man midfield..jags in midfield..neville in midfield..lescott out of position..not making substitutons when they obviously need to be made..


The man is a continual calamity on what seem to be the easy things...thank god he has the redeeming feature of being able to motivate a team..

We really need to ditch this "as long as we have a go " mentality ? does anyone really believe the gobshites care how they play ? there is only one thing thats counts in these matches, I dont care if we kick the fuckers all round Anfield - in fact, thinking about it, I’d prefer it.

Great article Tony.

Lee Rogers
LOL, nice try

Tony is right. It is ridiculous of Moyes to compare the Hull game with Newcastle. When we played Newcastle, our defence was leakier than the Titanic and we weren’t outplaying anybody.

Hull are in a slump that has seen them win once in around 3 months and the defence is statistically better than any defence we’ve had since Joe Royle took over.

Moyes is correct in that many of the challenges for which Fellaini is penalised are a joke. However, if he can see that he is pulled up when the ’keeper runs into him, then he can also spot Fellaini elbowing a defender in the face and throat. Moyes made a poor decision, or rather, non-decision.

Here’s an idea for you. How about Moyes ensures that his strongest team is available for the cup match or has he not even entertained the idea that trying to win a trophy, or even get close to it, would be something to aim for after 7 years? Maybe Moyes hasn’t yet thought of a way for us to have a shot on target and give ourselves a chance to win the game. Torres had more shots on target in the last derby than we’ve had in the last 3!

I for one am sick of people saying "it's only Hull".

Tony for a minute I thought great finally something Tony Marsh has written that may be good. But no it took you a very short time to attack Moyes again. FFS man, we get it you don?t like Moyes. But stop justifying your point by saying "it's only bleedin Hull". This is the same Hull who sit up our arse in the league and until recently were sitting nicely ahead of us.

Up until last season, Moyes?s first priority was to reach the forty point mark. He had no confidence to send out an attacking side because of our yo-yo positions in the Prem. We were woeful to watch for the first half of most league campaigns, and were happy squeeking 1-0 wins or drawing games. The start of this season was a write off and we are still only 11 points behind the league leaders, with over half the season gone. We really should have been third or fourth and Moyes has to take some of the blame for this, along with Kenwright.

All the pressure will be on the shite on Monday if the Mancs win their two games in hand. They haven?t been in this position before under the waiter, and he is kicking up a stink as we speak over his own contract. We are now playing with a lot of confidence, and our back four are back to their best (if he doesn?t drop Baines.) Mikel has told any would-be suitors he is happy at GP and we are playing through midfield again.

If we could derail their season within seven days it would be sweeter than anything since our last cup win. Believe me, the RS are more nervous than us about these two games, so now is the time to be counted. We were a disgrace in the last Derby and it could of easily been another 5-0. As long as we don?t sit back we can do it in both games.

Nice to hear from you Tony. I always enjoy your articles even when I disagree with them. In this case it’s hard to argue with you though. Well done for giving credit where it’s due and I’m glad you’re beginning to enjoy watching Everton again. I’m totally with you over the Felliani incident. I found it bizarre that he wasn’t taken off although I agree with Lyndon that had he played in the derby we’d be down to 10 men within half hour.

The thing that infuriates me is that we only hear from you when you’ve an axe to grind with Moyes. It’s as though you’re waiting for his next mistake. What you said about enjoying your football again was refreshing but why couldn’t we have heard that in isolation last week?

Er.....It was only Hull. The reason people are saying this is because they were utter crap throughout the match.

Good thread and basically good read: however, Moyes is the man and he told Fellaini to stay on, muck up their midfield for next 15 to 20 minutes and then come off; and oh yeah, be cool.

In my opinion I think the ref could easily have booked him prior to the actual event and if you ask me I think the ref was probably as surprised as the rest of us to see Fellaini run out for the second half; so there was no way he could continue playing as he was and not get booked. Let?s get real, half of the Hull team were out to nail him.

The RS game for me will show where we are; defensively we are now looking good, so Yobo has little or no chance of breaking into Moyes team. Additionally, Moyes has now stumbled on this 4-6-0 which allows Arteta to be ?the man? (and as most of us knew he has grabbed the bull by the horns). Arteta has the skill to bring in whoever he wants, wide or thru the middle ? basically as per the success with 4-5-1, I will be surprised if Moyes moves from 4-6-0 (i.e. Cahill and to an extent Fellaini upfront) whilst it is successful. And guys it is.

So, let?s go and give them a game ? if you're looking beyond 1-0 either way dream on. However, red and yellow cards will be order of the day ? defo!!

While I agree with some of the sentiment by Tony, I?m tired of the constant DM slagging.

It's a cliche but aren?t you only supposed to focus on the game your playing and not about the next one in 2 weeks time? Moyes's reaction was almost certainly down to the fact he would've taken Fellaini off fairly soon anyway ? after his booking had occurred. Moyes was simply (and IMO quite rightly) keeping the side tight and on top for the early second-half period. If Hull had scored immediately after kick-off and DM had subbed Fellaini at half-time, there would've been uproar. "Tactical blunder", "Sack Moyes, his subs are shit!" etc etc.

When he gets £25M to spend in one summer (without having to sell £20M first), then we can slag him off for poor football and not winning trophies. EFC are constantly outspent by richer clubs and yet some fans believe we should just naturally levitate to the top of the league. Get real.

Some of our fans sound like that ungrateful shower of shite from across the park. "Winning the CL is not good enough", "We should be winning the title every year" etc etc... boring.

Agree Tony.

I just hope (at LEAST for these two games) Moyes will remember our performances against Utd and Chelsea this season.

True we didn?t win either, but because we ?gave it a go?, we put both of them on the back foot, played for large parts around THEIR box (nb: a part of the pitch miles from OUR goal) and basically showed no fear.

Strikers or not, we should go/run at them.

It?ll mean everyone working their plums off but... so they should.

At Goodison we showed fear, ?respect?, we stood off, they cruised and won easily.

If we work harder than them and show no fear ? I believe we CAN win..... twice!

I am a big Moyes fan. In general he?s not a negative manager, he?s a winner and the best thing to happen to the Blues since Kendall's first spell. Despite this, sometimes you have to admit when there?s been a fuck-up and that?s exactly what leaving him on for the 2nd half was ? a fuck-up.

In the absence of the strikers, the formation hasn?t worked just because of resilience and application, it?s because Screech and Cahill have done better than they did. Screech has been our out-ball, he doesn?t just win aerial battles, he has the presence to bring the ball down and link the play. He isn?t always the best player on the pitch but for me he?s the key to pinning teams in in the last month or so.

If the Yak was fit it wouldn?t be such a blow but the idea of Tiny plying his trade alone against the shite for me is a waste of time and could leave us impotent up front. Basically, the Big Fella was their biggest threat.

I am not without hope, we still have quality at the back, players who can keep it and it only takes a quality set piece from Mikel. It just rambles me that once again the odds seem stacked in those bastards' favour who don?t have single fucking injury to worry about, Jammy twats.

Come on blues, despite all this I still agree with the title "Belief is the Key"........ please God, it?s our turn!

Tony, if nothing else you're great value for money.

Although I don't agree with many of your points, it is one of better articles. You manage to balance your article beter than I have seen before.

I?ve not always been complementary about Moyes and I do think he is prone to be indecisive but on this occasion I fully support his decision to leave Fellaini on the pitch. I even said at half time ?watch him take Screech off? fearing it would let Hull back into the game.

Your comments about Hull are just as wide of the mark, I think this is correct but this team have scored in every away match this season and are a much harder proposition than Newcastle. So he had right to ensure the points. As it happened I think he could have afforded to replace him but that's hindsight. Something you will not allow Moyes to have.

I think we need to give credit were its due and hold off on the negative remarks at least until we actually lose a goal never mind a game. Well done Moysey and I am for once optimistic that we can go into the next few games and give it a real go!

"Moyes is doing a decent enough job"

Fuckin ell someone fetch me my respirator quick... this can?t be from Tony Marsh?s keyboard! Has the common sense fairy paid you a visit or are you mellowing in your old age? Or is this the mild intro to the torrent of abuse coming Moyes?s way (deserved or not) should we lose one of those matches?

In my opinion, Liverpool are there for the taking, we?ve got the form, the personnel and the will to win this one (despite our lack of a top class striker) ? but in my heart of hearts I just know that controversy will rob us, just as it nearly always does.

Oh... please God, Jehova, Yahwee, Elvis.... just let us do them once... twice will be a bonus!

Kenrick: [[ The commendable base now is built firmly on not conceding, which has always been Moyes?s first priority. The problem comes when they do concede, because it destroys the players? confidence in the gameplan. ]]

In fairness, haven’t we had a fairly good record in the last couple of season of late goals/coming from behind to tie or win? That suggests that confidence isn’t utterly destroyed when we concede. I don’t really know where to look that up to back it up with some stats but I don’t really see us as a team which completely collapses if we concede.

Kevin, there is only one God, and his name is Moyes.

Good post Tony.

I am a Moyes believer and I don?t see anybody else would have done a better overall job in the last 7 years, but he does have some infuriating faults.

More infuriatingly, he seems not to always learn from his mistakes and I agree totally that we will only sign a forward if we lose at Anfield twice, at 11:59 pm on Monday, Feb 2. January is a crucial month and we need the reinforcements now. Injuries and suspensions can happen any time.

That said, I think we have all been amazed at the ability Cahill has shown up front and perhaps he is wondering if we need to bring a striker in at all?

He may go for somebody like Jenas and keep Cahill up front indefinitely? On that subject I am surprised we are not in for Lovenkrands, a class act on his day and available for nothing.

Heath (& others): I think Michael?s point is also that, because if the base we have built and because of DM?s innate caution, it places a huge amount of pressure on our rearguard. Over the course of a season it?s unsustainable to get away with so many 1-0 wins.

That?s not to say anything against our defence, because frankly it?s excellent, Howard, Pip, Lescott, Jags & Baines are as good as anyone IMHO. Recent evidence supports this.

You can?t classify Hull in the same breath as Newcastle. Against the Geordies we were in a shite run. We are now bang in form, Hull are bang out of it, and we had a 2-0 lead.

Yes, we saw the game out with Fellaini playing. But that argument is rather up itself as the big fella was useless for 43 mins of the 2nd half following his booking. So do you now see the point being made here?

I?m afraid that DM?s retort about leaving Fellaini on for 10 or 15 mins of the 2nd half sounds ridiculous. 45 minutes and 35 minutes are not that far apart when 2 goals are needed. Don?t buy it I?m afraid. This showed Moyes?s failings, i.e. making a decision without having it made for him. He has virtues and has reclaimed some kudos with me & others in the past 2 months. But he still pulls up short at key moments.

It?s now day 3 since our win against Hull (said in a big brother voice for comedy value)

We are where we are. We?re in 6th poistion and we take on the shite without Fellaini. Yes we?d be better with him but regardless of your opinion as to whether he should be available or not, he isn?t

So how do we go about beating those arseholes? To be fair, I?d take 2 draws and a win back at Goodison in the cup.
I?d probably play Anichebe rather than Castilo as the former shows greater attacking intent and is a greater physical threat than asking Osman to join the attack. Just as we intend to attack this game all guns blazing, so will they. And it?s about time Anichebe stood up and said "I?m a Premier League player, I?m up for this."

COYB

Tony, it really makes me laugh that a player you blasted Moyes for buying and bringing into the squad at the start of the season, is now suddenly the one player Everton can not live without! No manager is perfect but I can’t think of any others I’d like to see at the helm of our great club right now. Clearly our team does not have a big squad, but I’d prefer to have Fell against the Arsenal with a clean slate, than walking a tightrope thru the next 2 derby games.
No manager is always right, but then again, clearly neither is every pundit!

Nice to have Tony back, nice balanced article as usual. It?s strange how Moyes makes mistakes, I thought he was omnipotent. It?s time he went, maybe to a club who will appreciate his talent rather than waiting for any opportunity to have a go. Must remember to look up the definition of the word ?supporter?.

Again I can't believe people are critiscing Moyes because he hasn't signed another striker.

Would the fact that we have NO money and player valuations are notoriously high in Jan transfer window be a consideration?

Also who realistically is gonna come in FOR £0 and make a difference to a top 6 PL team? Maybe Moyes should load up FM ?09 and scout one of those talented Norwegian 17-year-olds who turn world class in 4 years. That usually works for me.

Marcus,

If you find a definition of ?supporter? that states one must tacitly accept all the decisions of the manager without criticism... then I?ll eat my hat... and your hat... and anybodies hat.

I support Everton, NOT David Moyes.

I think Tony?s attitude to our manager is summed out in his closing line - beat the shite & Moyes will have his undying support, lose and no doubt Tony will unleash all the pent up emotion which our relatively good form of late has required him to keep bottled up. I don?t know the definition of supporter but I do know what fickle means!

Fickle you say, Brendan. Well its a 35-year long strech of fickleness.... My point is that after 7 years in charge Moyes has never sent a team across the park on Derby day with a winning attitude. It's always the "saftey-first, let's nick a draw" mentality and it never works.

I want to see these up-and-coming games with the RS being played with belief, passion and a will to win. If we lose having a go then fair enough... but I can't acccept this rolling over shit like the last time we met.

HOW OR WHY is that being fickle???????

Ciaran, I was a bit tongue in cheek! Just think that Moyes doesn?t get as much credit here as he does elsewhere and that the criticism is often undeserved. He does prevaricate at times and the Fellaini booking was unfortunate, but Moyes decision has to be put into context, the reaction of many on here is way OTT. I think the likes of Tony exhibit more passion than most and I admire him for it, but he?s not exactly balanced when it comes to all things Everton and too many pick up on his sabre rattling and the whole thing loses a sense of perspective and credibility. It just becomes Moyes bashing for the sake of it.

Hmmm.. let me see... how can I denigrate your opinon without being drectly abusive? Let me count the ways....

I could say you’re "fickle". Yes, that’s a good one.

"You know nothing about football" ? that’s always a winner!

"Moyes bashing for the sake of it" ? another excellent way to defuse the considered opinion of others.

......

Listen, this site is for the discussion of Everton issues. If you don’t like that discussion, or cannot treat it as such, it’s simple: DON’T PARTICIPATE!

Nice to see Tony Marsh back and writing another very good article. Now i cant deny that Moyes has done a decent job, but as Tony correctly points out these little things are costing us. Common sense said take Fellaini off at half time. The bloke had been warned and we were cruising. And then he was actually shocked when he got booked. We really can’t do without anymore players at the moment.

And it sums Moyes up with his line. So what he was basically saying was he is weary of Hull City who had won 1 in 12 despite the fact that his team had won 4 in the previous 6 and kept 5 clean sheets in 6 games. The difference between that and the Newcastle game was that at the time we were in an absolute state, where we couldnt buy a win or a clean sheet. Now we are well organised and playing decent football.

And where are the new players. I think all this about us having no money is a sham. Our finances must have improved in recent years due to finishing in top 6, Uefa Cup runs, League Cup and so on. And for every bit of money we spend on players we make money by balancing the books. I agree with Tony Moyes should threaten to walk out, cause you know what. Kenwright would shit himself there. Think about it? the guy was convinced the worlds top clubs would chase him, so this would be perfect, and would tit arse would give him the funds. But because we are doing ok at the moment Moyes will not move it. Still another 3 weeks till we find out what shite we’ve signed.
Thats the trouble with Moyes and another reason he will never be a great manager is that he will only do something if hes forced to. And despite it being blindly obvious that we have needed a winger for all these years i still dont see 1. And i.m.o our improvement in football wasn’t down to Moyes at all. It was because Yakubu got injured. He was so lazy and didnt contribute, but when he got injured everyone was hard working and all of a sudden we found the quality of football improving. I don’t want this to sound like a dig at Moyes even though ive made it clear many times i dislike him but i dont believe he’s done anything exceptional for our upturn in form, i see it more as a blessing in disguise.



And now finally onto The Shite. These are 2 massive games that will shape our season. Possibly the 2 biggest games we’ve had in a decade. And we owe them big time. This is no joke anymore we have to beat them in one, and given the choice id probably take the Cup match. I think i speak for Evertonians when i say that i really hope to god they don’t win the Title this year. That is the 1 they really want, and especially being that it’s 20 years from Hillsbrough and with the luck of the Devil its bound to be their year. If they collapse then it will make the even more paranoid. And that Benitez AKA Fat Spanish Waiter is a downright hypercrit. YES Man United get the big decisions in front of the Stretford End and i would love to smack Alex Ferguson myself, but he has some front. What does his captain Darling Stevie do? Unless i need my eyesight checking, plenty of times he’s influenced refeeres with his cheating and petulance by crying his eyes out. And the fact that they Struggled against Stoke for a point and United hammering Chelsea, maybe just maybe the tide is starting to turn. GOD I HOPE SO. And if United do win the title this year Great! Even if it means Judas picking up another title, the upside to it will be that they have equalled The Shite’s 18 and also left them waiting longer for the title which apparantly should be reserved for them.


I think Moyes should have a go at them for these games. If we get beat then it wont be for the lack of trying. And after 7 years of getting turned over by them time and time again, im hoping that he will have finally learnt his lesson that we cannot sit back at Anfield. A win there especially in the cup would be fantastic, and a double with us going onto win the Cup and them winning Fuck All would be absolute heaven. They are Truly Satans team. Regardless of whether or not theyve had to wait almost 2 decades for their precious League Title, we’ve had to wait almost as long to win a trophy. They’ve robbed a European Cup and us in the Derby countless times since, so i think if anyone deserves to get what they want, then it’s us. If there is any justice then we’d get what we want this year, but then they won the European Cup 20 years on from Footballs biggest ever crime, and when they robbed us of our greatest ever moment, so i wouldn’t hold my breath there. A Double win in a week and Winning the Fa Cup and them failing in the League would go a way to making up for the Shit we’ve had for years, and would finally make me believe in Moyes.
COYB FTRS

To use phrases like "ridiculous" and "unforgivable" for DM not subbing Mo is... well... ridiculous!

We?re winning games, keeping clean sheets, and this isn?t good news for those of you who only seem to be happy when you?re complaining.

You moan about Felliani not being good enough or worth £15 million, then you bemoan the loss of him as if that fact alone guarantees defeat! Get over it, move on and stay behind the lads that will be on the field.

Maybe we should never play the Big Fella against any team other than those in the top five and then he may only miss one or two games a season! After all, if we had rested him for every game after his 6th booking, he would have been in line to play in every one of our next four, and vital games...

I pray we win the next two games... I have a feeling a few of you whingers won?t know what to do with yourselves!

Tony,

Where have you been? Oh, forgot, we?ve been doing okay recently. Good article and as ever you?re entitled to your opinion... but you just couldn?t wait to get stuck into Moyes!! 6th in the league despite not playing to our best, not bad I would say.

Understand your frustration with regards to the last derby and wanting to see the boys "have a go" ? your comments and frustrations about the last outing are fully justified and understandable. That said anyone with half a football brain will know that you have to approach games against the better teams (i.e. top 4) more cautiously. Go gun-ho and they will pick you off and humiliate you; that applies to any standard of football I?ve ever watched or played.

Moyes doesn?t always get it right but tell me a manager that does. If you were in the chair you would make mistakes (I know, unbelievable!). Results and positions speak for themselves. Sorry mate but in 7 years we are far better placed than we were in 2002 and the quality of the players on the pitch is superior, surely you can?t deny that. Or were you happier with Walter Smith and his band of past their best travellers and 15th place finishes?

Let's have some faith in the boys ? without being too greedy, a point in the league and knocking them out the cup would suit me!!

Michael,

Surprised at your outburst. Of course this is a site for the discussion of Everton issues and surely that means views from both ends of the spectrum ? pro-Moyes and anti-Moyes? The latter are certainly entitled to their views on anyone who dare suggest Moyes is doing well! If Marcus and co think it is "Moyes bashing for the sake of it" are they not allowed to say so?

I think there is an element of Moyes bashing for the sake of it, it?s not an attempt to stifle discussion, simply an opinion. As for denigration without abuse, where?s the problem with that exactly, just a more subtle form of what goes on in the majority of posts. No Michael, I enjoy the banter and debate and respect others opinions, but I lose interest when people lose perspective. As someone has already said, to use words like ?unforgivable? to describe Moyes failure to substitute Fellaini is ridiculous, an over reaction that does nothing to encourage honest, intelligent discussion.

Tony - great article. I don?t always agree with you and like many others think you can be a bit over the top regarding David Moyes. In this case I think you got it right. Unfortunately substitution making is not one of Dave's strong points and if ever the point needed to be proved, well, Fellaini staying on after half-time proved it beyond any doubt and believe me Moyes knew that he had fucked up big time. The comments about being two up against Newcastle were just cobbled together in a face-saving exercise.

Bang on the money article. We?ll never progress unless Moyes show?s some dynamism, confidence and progressive thinking in tactics and substitution policy. But we?ve know that for a while now so are stuck with the situation and the sad thing is it doesn?t surprise anymore.

Personally, I would get more satisfaction from three points against the shite in the league game and therefore helping to prevent the unthinkable from happening. But going over there, all bold looking for the three points just ain?t in his mentality is it?

One player doesn't make a team ? the RS are still better than us but it rarely counts for much come the derby.

With or without Fellaini, I doubt we?ll beat them at Anfield ? they don't lose many at home.

James Marshall ? with that attitude, what is the fucking point of us turning up twice next week?? Too many people connected with Everton lie down too easy against these horribe twats!!! If I was good enough I?d fucking show them!!

I never read the articles but I just had to because Tony?s name was on it.. Im still laughing at "Bungalo Bill".

Good Article btw.

Tony Marsh ? this has been your most reasonable post ever and has prompted much debate as usual. You started off so well and there has been plenty of agreement with your comments. Well, it comes as no surprise that I disagree with the bulk of your views once again.

Your views about "hoofball" I have always agreed with and I share the desire to see our team play good football that is pleasing on the eye. But you turn your views into negativity as you always do. Your repeated comments about David Moyes go beyond fair and reasonable criticism, as do Michael Kenrick's.

Before you both say I am just a lover of David Moyes, I am not ? I was critical of him too earlier this season, particularly his body language whilst on the touchline, until after he sorted out his contract. But I am prepared to take a balanced view about David Moyes ? the good points and the bad. You and Michael Kenrick do no such thing; your views lack any fairness and I continually disagree with the shite you repeatedly spew out. Remember after 3 games of this season you were saying after your anti-Moyes rant that you were not going to the match anymore.

I enjoy reading your posts, Tony, and long may they continue in whatever vein you choose. I support the view that it is healthy to debate issues affecting our club and that this website is the best place to do so. In that I agree with Michael Kenrick. I take issue with him in that he has lost his objectivity about David Moyes and given the role he has with ToffeeWeb I think he is in the wrong.

But basically I think you are just too negative and talk shite.

Paul, just a lot of constructs ("lack of balance", "no objectivity", "talking shite" etc) to say, in as many words, that you don?t agree with our positions on David Moyes. Well, no surprise there.

There are plenty who think DM is doing a marvelous job and are grateful for anything above mid-table mediocrity. But their platitudes don?t change my opinion of him one bit.

He has confirmed he is still a jumped up PE Teacher whose hard work ethic destroys strikers, and whose emphasis on holding the line at all costs seriously detracts from creativity in front of gaol... and totally eliminates my particular favourite ? the breakaway goal. When did we last see Everton score a breakaway goal?

But I?m holding my counsel until the next two games. It is crucial that he sets up the team to approach these critical matches (for the fans, if not the club) in the right way... the "Everton Way" ? and not the David Moyes way exemplified in the last two dreadful derbies. I?ll be watching from my balanced perch... ready to spout forth either side of the fence based on how we play... not on the result, which may be hard for us to influence given the referee's undoubted bias, but how we play.

Michael
My comment "talking shite" was not aimed at you but at Tony Marsh who I have disagreed with on virtually every occasion he posts.
My comments to you are really aimed at your objectivity concerning David Moyes (evidence - your personal snipe at him above) and our club in general. I genuinely think you have lost that and to do the great job you do I personally believe you should be objective and fair. I don?t believe you are and will continue to say so assuming I am allowed to contribute my views whether I agree with you or not.

Your views about "how we play" ? bit naive and idealistic don?t you think. West Brom play nice passing football but will probably finish bottom and get to play in the championship next season. Don?t get me wrong I hated the "hoofball" that Tony Marsh rightly referred to that we used earlier this season and on occasion last year. But come on football is about results ? that is what determines success ? not style. The ideal is to combine the 2 and few sides actually do that over a whole season. Do you really believe that if we go to Anfield ? play good football ? and get beat that our fans will accept that?? NO WAY.

I suppose it all comes down to what we want as individuals ? 1st priority for me is to win (especially against the RS) 2nd priority attractive football pleasing on the eye. The points are what is important to me and I believe that would apply to most football fans.

Like you I do want entertaining football tp be played by Everton ? but what exactly is that? Slick passing, Dribbling past the opposition, Powerful shots - yes to all of those. But what about a strong tackle like Phil Neville on Ronaldo or a team display of all out effort ? is?nt that also entertaining for fans too.

Your ideals are fine but impractical in my view. But footy is all about opinions and ToffeeWeb does a great service to us Blues by giving us the vehicle to debate/agree/disagree on all things Everton.
Tonight let us all hope for
1 An Everton win
2 A decent game of football
3 A fair Ref
4 No red cards
5 No moronic disgusting chants from them or us.

But if I can only have 1 of the above I want 3 points thanks very much.

No Paul, my concern was more about the attitude of the team. They did pretty well on balance but the result was ’only’ a draw and I’m disappointed we didn’t win, of course. We could have done, despite the claptrap spouted on here about disparity of resources... it’s about what the players do on the field on the night that matters.

We still didn’t have much idea of what to do with the ball when we get possession, which is sad. It took us a while to get back into the game after the goal, and that’s the problem when the main preoccupation is defence at all costs, rather than a more sensible balance between defence (when you don’t have the ball) and attack (when you do).

Instead, as ever it seems, we were far too wasteful in possession. I think we’ll have to do something different if we are to win on Sunday, but I have no idea what these players can do. Perhaps another nice free-kick hammered in hard from out wide? Can’t see Liverpool falling for that one again!