FAN ARTICLES
Is It Time to Forgive Rooney?
Comments (83) : As an avid reader and first time contributor to this magnificent website, I thought I?d begin by playing it safe ? Should we forgive Wayne Rooney?
Having read Rooney?s recent red shite- hating comments ? once a blue, always a blue???- and the discussions on whether ?Judas? deserves to be included in the top 50 Everton players of all time, I thought I?d contribute my thoughts.
1) Contribution as a player. As an impact sub in his first season, in a team that somehow fought its way to that fourth place, he was superb, but that second season when the rest of the team relied on him to do everything, he couldn?t handle the pressure and we saw the first signs of his temperament problems. Everton slumped to their worst ever season under Moyes and the over-reliance on Rooney was a major factor in this. Rooney left... our performances improved.
On the international stage, Rooney?s performances against Turkey in qualifying and in Euro 2004, before his injury, I still regard as the best football I have ever seen him play and some of my proudest blue moments. He was at the peak of his commercial value, he had the agent from hell, and his relationship with Moyes was deteriorating. £30m for a player with a disruptive influence on the team, seemed a good deal to me, even though I was gutted to see him go.
2) Financial value Ok, true transfer fees are difficult to evaluate these days, what with undisclosed fees and fees increasing on future performance etc. If we are to assume that Everton have received in the region of £30m then this has roughly covered the transfers of the following players; Howard, Neville, Lescott, Jagielka, Baines, Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill, Gosling. Ok, I know we bought Cahill a few weeks before Rooney went, but its close enough. Now I think many Evertonians would be very content to see those names on the teamsheet every week, even with Gosling still in the early stages of development. So would you swap the core of our current team back for one player: Rooney? I wouldn?t.
3) Personal feelings The sense of betrayal was a direct result of the joy he had given us in his first season, and the pride of watching him carry the whole England team at the age of 17. Did we feel betrayed by Francis Jeffers, Michael Ball or Richard Dunne? Did we ****!
So I guess what I am saying is summarised by my answers to the following questions. Do I believe that a 17 year-old kid being advised by a dodgy agent, should be hated forever for wanting a move from a team fighting relegation to one of the most successful clubs in Europe? No Am I glad I witnessed his finest moments as a blue and England blue? Yes Would I swap Rooney for all of Howard, Neville, Lescott, Jagielka, Baines, Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill, Gosling? No. (I?m not sure I?d swap him for Cahill alone!) Do I hope he scores a hatrick against the Red Shite, in a performance driven by his hatred of them? Yes. Do I hope he gets sent off in the FA Cup semi in the first minute? Yes Do I think he deserves to be placed in the top 50 Everton players of all time? Probably not, given the limited period and impact of his time in a blue shirt. Do I celebrate his sublime skills when I watch him in an England shirt or for united playing against anyone but us and feel proud that he was spawned by our great club? Yes Have I forgiven him? Yes Should You?
Reader Comments (83)
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2 Posted 13/03/2009 at 12:27:28
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7940340.stm )
Second ? can we please all STOP the booing of Rooney, please? Yes, it really really hurt that he left us, and how it happened. But the booing and abuse surely just spurs him on whenever he plays against us. Why give him this extra impetus?
How about at Wembley we do nothing... and I mean nothing. A concerted effort to be absolutely silent whenever his name is announced and whenever he is on the ball. Now that really would freak him out! Worth a try, yes?
3 Posted 14/03/2009 at 17:03:05
Whatever happens in the semi final though I’m sure the dream I had the other night, where he scored in the first minute & was then red carded for his celebration after running all the way up to the royal box to give Kenwright the finger, won’t come true....
4 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:02:18
5 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:10:33
6 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:06:58
7 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:07:38
8 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:11:47
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa2cxhki3QU
9 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:15:26
10 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:03:08
Once a shit always a shit!!!
11 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:22:56
12 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:47:38
Simple answer to your heading is ’NO’
13 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:42:20
14 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:35:45
Also, I don’t buy this look at the team he went to crap. When did he become too big for the premiership club that he grew up loving. The whole saga stinks of everything that is bad in todays game. You can forgive him if you wan’t but I for one never will. and don’t tell me to get over it either ’cause i am entitled to a bit of Judas strongly disliking (I don’t hate the little blighter) madness in my like.
Ultimately, I would like the dickhead back ’cause then I could forgive him and get over it. For what he did though, he should never ever be put on a list of Everton greats.
15 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:35:45
Also, I don’t buy this look at the team he went to crap. When did he become too big for the premiership club that he grew up loving. The whole saga stinks of everything that is bad in todays game. You can forgive him if you wan’t but I for one never will. and don’t tell me to get over it either ’cause i am entitled to a bit of Judas strongly disliking (I don’t hate the little blighter) madness in my like.
Ultimately, I would like the dickhead back ’cause then I could forgive him and get over it. For what he did though, he should never ever be put on a list of Everton greats.
16 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:56:44
17 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:59:06
I wont even support an England team he plays for, and was delighted he got sent off v Portugal in the world cup. Once a lying fat greedy cunt always a lying fat greedy cunt.
18 Posted 14/03/2009 at 19:01:06
Surely he would know that such an outburst would motivate the shite rather than put them back in their shells, or give United an advantage in todays game.
Maybe one of their (high profile) players could, on the eve of our semi-final meeting, castigate and give Everton FC both barrels and spout viritol towards us and see if we can duplicate what our near neighbours did today. I can’t see that happening but just a thought.
19 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:54:27
20 Posted 14/03/2009 at 19:09:23
21 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:35:14
Loyalty - zero
We needed the money ? One pre-season tour of the Far East would have earnt more money from shirt sales than a transfer deal on the drip.
If, and it is a big if, we had to sell, Chelski were waiting with cash but he goes to the Mancs ?
Ferguson, Stretford, Freddy Shepherd - all very murky.
When he scored at Goodison his celebration says it all.
He is, possibly, the only player ever to do that after scoring against a former club.
A man (boy) very easily manipulated ?
If he is, people made sure he was not exposed to any outside influences i.e Moyes trying to get to him when he was in the England camp at the Euros.
Moyes may of talked him around but he never got the chance.
All the Manc players in the squad especially Rio, whispering in his ear.
I look at Rooney now and I believe even more what I was told a few years ago, that Rooney has to be shown how to tie his shoelaces on a daily basis. Maybe a tad harsh but it would explain a lot.
Who knows.
I was in the Park End the day he scored and his lack of respect was unbelievable and I do not know what he could do, for me to forgive that moment and that includes trying to undestand the manipulation stuff above.
Did the Manc players wind him up that much or even convinced him, that to be a true player of the Mancs and win over the fans he had to do it ?
Gary Neville, Rio and the rest, fans and all, laughing their heads off - ’look at this daft scouser.’
You have got be to be of a very low learning age to be maipulated that badly - no respect for yourself, your roots, people who helped you and loved you, or, you have a ’shameless’ mentality - "Fuck this, I want the signing on fee and medals now, i’m off ye naive mugs."
He seems pretty clued up to me sometimes especially with Colleen behind him or is he another Gazza and if he ever losses Colleen, anyone and everyone will see him coming.
My bottom line - He betrayed us all including his city and I don’t think he is that easily led.
I would say he sold his soul, but I do not think he had one to sell.
COYB
22 Posted 14/03/2009 at 18:35:14
Loyalty - zero
We needed the money ? One pre-season tour of the Far East would have earnt more money from shirt sales than a transfer deal on the drip.
If, and it is a big if, we had to sell, Chelski were waiting with cash but he goes to the Mancs ?
Ferguson, Stretford, Freddy Shepherd - all very murky.
When he scored at Goodison his celebration says it all.
He is, possibly, the only player ever to do that after scoring against a former club.
A man (boy) very easily manipulated ?
If he is, people made sure he was not exposed to any outside influences i.e Moyes trying to get to him when he was in the England camp at the Euros.
Moyes may of talked him around but he never got the chance.
All the Manc players in the squad especially Rio, whispering in his ear.
I look at Rooney now and I believe even more what I was told a few years ago, that Rooney has to be shown how to tie his shoelaces on a daily basis. Maybe a tad harsh but it would explain a lot.
Who knows.
I was in the Park End the day he scored and his lack of respect was unbelievable and I do not know what he could do, for me to forgive that moment and that includes trying to undestand the manipulation stuff above.
Did the Manc players wind him up that much or even convinced him, that to be a true player of the Mancs and win over the fans he had to do it ?
Gary Neville, Rio and the rest, fans and all, laughing their heads off - ’look at this daft scouser.’
You have got be to be of a very low learning age to be maipulated that badly - no respect for yourself, your roots, people who helped you and loved you, or, you have a ’shameless’ mentality - "Fuck this, I want the signing on fee and medals now, i’m off ye naive mugs."
He seems pretty clued up to me sometimes especially with Colleen behind him or is he another Gazza and if he ever losses Colleen, anyone and everyone will see him coming.
My bottom line - He betrayed us all including his city and I don’t think he is that easily led.
I would say he sold his soul, but I do not think he had one to sell.
COYB
23 Posted 14/03/2009 at 19:17:49
What it does show given today’s result is if you get at Utd there is a chance you will get something out of the game.
I hope David Moyes takes note and stops any of our ex-Man U making silly statements before the Semi.
24 Posted 14/03/2009 at 19:37:47
Fair comment about his goal celebrations and badge kissing.
25 Posted 14/03/2009 at 19:45:44
26 Posted 14/03/2009 at 19:52:02
People seem to credit extremely talented footballers with having extreme intelligence and maturity.
Wayne Rooney is a scally made good, and I DONT mean that as an insult. Grew up in a hard part of Liverpool, though cushioned from reality by his skill as a footballer.
He was/is a hothead and fell out with Moyes because their personalities clashed. The hothead versus the dour Scot. It was a battle of wills, AND ego’s.
It’s a matter of opinion as to who won...Rooney wanted to win things, to succeed. We couldn’t provide that. He may have have inadvertently saved the club with the money we got for him.
The arguments are endless but there’s ONE you have to accept.
We the supporters DONT have the option to swap clubs, and change our allegiance. We don’t get paid for our loyalty it’s in our blood. My two sons are lifelong Evertonians as I am. I made sure of that from the day they were born.
Rooney was/is a fan who’s dream came true, to play for the club you love.
He then realised as WE should. Bein a footballer is a JOB..and I’ve argued this point numerous times before. If each one of us was offered double our wages, better conditions, double holidays...nicer birds in the staff canteen (yeh alright) we’d jump at it.
True we may not rub our former employers face in it every opportunity but we’d still do it.
Don’t treat the lad like he should naturally know better. He can’t help his upbringing or his environment.
He’s an ex player who, like Gaza, is not equpped with diplomacy or great intelligence, but who happens to be supremely talented with a football. Just treat him like that and we’ll all sleep a lot better.
27 Posted 14/03/2009 at 20:55:32
There’s at least 4 players that may become legends, so let’s talk about them!
28 Posted 14/03/2009 at 20:55:32
There?s at least 4 players that may become legends, so let?s talk about them!
29 Posted 14/03/2009 at 21:04:46
31 Posted 14/03/2009 at 21:38:11
32 Posted 14/03/2009 at 22:17:51
33 Posted 14/03/2009 at 22:07:19
Food-Abusing
Tshirt-Making
Auld-Nan-Craving
Classless Unforgivable No-clue Twat!
(never!)
36 Posted 14/03/2009 at 23:07:51
37 Posted 14/03/2009 at 23:04:22
If he loved Everton as much as he did then he wouldn?t have left in the circumstances he did. We were in a right state that summer and if he really cared for us he wouldn?t have let that happen. To hand in a transfer request with just a few days of the window to go left a sour taste in the mouth. How could someone who loved the club so much leave at 18. We all thought he was one of us. How wrong we all were. I can?t believe how anyone is suggesting we should forgive him.
Ok you could argue all you want that you cannot hold a grudge forever but look at his actions towards us since he left. Kissing the badge everytime he scored against us. The pride we all got in Euro 2004 when he was breathtaking was incredible. He made us all feel proud to be Evertonians. And then he shit on the lot of us. He could have been the ultimate Everton hero. A scouser who broke through at 16, was the world?s best player at 18, who went onto become the greatest player in Everton?s history ? the club he supposedly loved. But nope he made his decision and he will have to deal with the consequences.
With that being said, I won?t be complaining if he picks up a League Title this season because then that?ll mean The Shite can no longer claim to be England?s best team.
COYB FTRS
38 Posted 14/03/2009 at 23:40:13
39 Posted 15/03/2009 at 00:00:29
I don’t want it to happen but all the recent articles about Moyes in the press these last few weeks have got me thinking something is in the air.
Maybe that was what was wrong with Rooney today as he looked like the player who played for us in his last season at Goodison.
40 Posted 15/03/2009 at 00:36:05
42 Posted 15/03/2009 at 00:39:33
As well as the City transfer rumour, Mr Moyes aint got the Euro experience either. In my question, I was playing Devil?s Advocate so to speak. Many people on this forum feel Davey has still a lot to prove despite our current form and league position and I am one of them.
I just watched MOTD and saw Lescott take an arm band off when he scored his goal. Was he Captain today or were all the players wearing them as a sign of respect for someone? Sorry for going off topic but if Lescott was Captain then that's a big statement from the manager.
43 Posted 15/03/2009 at 01:42:19
44 Posted 15/03/2009 at 06:28:31
45 Posted 15/03/2009 at 08:21:55
Spot on. Couldn?t agree more. And let?s move on from this badge-kissing bollocks; if you?re getting abused by 35,000 Everonians, what would be your response?
I?m no longer a regular match attender so I realise that I?m perhaps not the best person to dismiss all these emotions but frankly, if he lets his contract run down and came on greatly reduced wages, I?d happily have him back.
46 Posted 15/03/2009 at 09:57:13
Sorry I can?t contribute more elegantly to the Rooney debate than that.
if he came back on a free and crawled down the East Lancs on his hands and knees, begging forgiveness, then allowed 40,000 Evertonians to kick him in the balls the way he did to us, I may then forgive and forget. Until then ?He?s just a fat ....?
47 Posted 15/03/2009 at 10:07:31
48 Posted 15/03/2009 at 10:08:01
He?ll never do that (suing DM for slander proved that), so I don?t see how he can ever earn respect from any of us.
49 Posted 15/03/2009 at 10:15:53
He stabbed the club in the back in the worst possible way, and every time he?s returned to Goodison he?s shown himself to be a truly horrible idiot. A few words against the RS and he?s ok again?
It seems that to some on this website, being an Evertonian is all about hating LFC, and not much else. It?s pathetic!!!
50 Posted 15/03/2009 at 11:13:19
51 Posted 15/03/2009 at 11:26:19
52 Posted 15/03/2009 at 11:47:18
He has no common sense and to me now he is nothing, he is simply another ManUre player, nothing more nothing less.
53 Posted 15/03/2009 at 12:25:42
However, apart from Moyes, in my eyes Rooney could have saved this football club. He earnt us almost £30 million which we used to buy some of the best players we have today. He is an amazing talent for sure; however, I don?t think he has developed to an amazing standard (at a club where he should have developed better than any other).
And as stated, the money (when we were in a perilous financial situation) has brought so much. If you consider, just take £7million of that which was used to buy Arteta and Lescott, whom I would prefer to have than Rooney, you realise how useful it's been to our club.
People will boo him, it's only natural; however, we weren't performing well when he left and he put his ambition before his heart ? in any other job that wouldnt be a crime but in the world of football it?s different.
I would have loved to still see him at Everton; however, in the grand scheme of things, it was better that he went than stayed, and I can't see the sense in continually booing him every time he plays for (presumably) the rest of his career.
We should concentrate on what we are doing now and it's good to see that there?s a lot of well reasoned comments on here that acknowledge the same.
54 Posted 15/03/2009 at 14:11:45
55 Posted 15/03/2009 at 13:51:42
56 Posted 15/03/2009 at 15:25:38
Do you seriously think he will do that if he give him a fair reception?
57 Posted 15/03/2009 at 16:16:01
Live and let live hey? I bet you are polite and courteous to every single person who has been a bit of an arsehole to you or stabbed you in the back and perhaps lied about it in a book... you get my drift.
58 Posted 15/03/2009 at 16:24:24
EFC looked after him and his family for over 10 years. Why was that, by the way? ?Allegedly?, when we gave him money, he passed it on to his parents who then spent it on booze and gambling and that is why EFC ended up buying the shopping and clothes for him etc. (No I am not naming sources.)
All he had to do was give us 3 or 4 more years to see where we were going as a team.
EFC needed the money ? as said above, we could have sold him for cash but why sell when his marketing appeal would have reaped in the money anyway! All his choice, just like his 18th birthday, when he dropped all the friends he grew up with, to spend it with "Becks and the boys" ? and, yes, that is a direct quote. Compare and contrast to Rodwell?s 18th birthday this week.Rooney could not even turn up for the funeral of a man who looked after him for years before he left.
I do not think there is any justification for his actions over the years. And we boo him etc, so what. He deserves everything he gets.
What about the younger blues when he left ? They just wanted an explanation why their hero was walking away ? and for what? To go to the Mancs.
Where would EFC be now if he had showed just an ounce of loyalty and appreciation? The whole thing stinks and he is an absolute scumbag. I said earlier he has a ?Shameless? mentality ? wrong and an insult to anyone living that life. Rooney = a money-grabbing, low-life, stupid, thick, Judas, knobhead.
59 Posted 15/03/2009 at 17:38:40
I wouldn't want that fat horrible shit anywere near us again. All this "it's done" defeatism is annoying. The lad fucked us over at a point when we needed him most ? he would have been happy to run his contract down and gone for nothing. Some Everton fan. And all those who want to "forgive" him, just have a think.
60 Posted 15/03/2009 at 19:57:55
61 Posted 15/03/2009 at 20:28:43
62 Posted 15/03/2009 at 22:06:31
63 Posted 15/03/2009 at 23:13:47
Those that paved his way should look at themselves, but don?t blame a dimwitted child. It cut him to bits to leave Everton. And several ex-EFC heroes can hold their hands up and their heads in shame for their part in his leaving, including Big Dunc.
If you want to take it out on anyone, the blame lies with Stretford, and several other senior pro?s who didn?t enjoy Moyes?s new regime, including a prominent member of our coaching staff.
The good news is that if Rooney were to arrive through our youth system now, he would stay for at least three more years because the Champions League is no longer a pipe dream.
If only Moyes could have taken over a couple of years earlier.
64 Posted 16/03/2009 at 00:03:24
65 Posted 16/03/2009 at 00:47:51
And let's be honest, we were fighting against relegation and he clearly didn't get on with the manager and therefore I doubt he was enjoying his football. And it should always be remembered his transfer fee was used to revitalise our team.
And with respect to marketing money etc... this is Rooney ? not Beckham. I'm pretty sure that we would have recieved more from the players we brought with the money (or from Li Tie) than Rooney...
Seriously though, if you feel the need to spend your time writing personal insults about a young footballer on a forum, you need to reassess your life.
66 Posted 16/03/2009 at 02:02:11
67 Posted 16/03/2009 at 03:37:20
Just because derby day gets a bit tasty, doesn?t mean we?ve all stopped hating the scum (Man U) all of a sudden. There?s a thousand times more chance of it kicking off against the Mancs than with those across the park, and Roodas will have been well aware of that, if he really was ?always a blue?.
Pure evil if you ask me...
68 Posted 16/03/2009 at 06:20:49
69 Posted 16/03/2009 at 10:42:28
I pray that he never comes back as I would hate him to be part of our history books in years to come. Just one thing, what does his father think sitting in the stands when he is racing down the Street End goading our support and kissing the the badge to the Park End?
70 Posted 16/03/2009 at 10:44:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap056mbaM5Y&feature=related
defines it for me. Wayne leaving in my opinion was ultimately good for us, and I hope he’ll come back. But those wounds are still healing.
He was, and still is a kid in terms of his attitudde and temper. Hopefully he’ll grow up and earn some respect. I’d welcome him back then.
71 Posted 16/03/2009 at 11:15:28
I for one would like to thank him for being an Everton player and saving us from the shit. Alex Ferguson got rid of Becks, the club got better, now let's move on. Let's just kick Man U's butts on the park. COYBs
72 Posted 16/03/2009 at 12:54:37
73 Posted 16/03/2009 at 13:14:05
74 Posted 16/03/2009 at 13:42:25
Maybe Rooney isn't gettting it so easy these days at United, the honeymoon period is over. After all, he is still a scouser, so first to be criticised when things aren't going right.
Rooney was badly advised, he shit on his blue ?family? and that's hard to forgive. If he shows some humility, stops playing the fool and acknowledges that, despite the £30 million pieces of gold we got for him, he owes a lot to Everton, then maybe he and the fans can move on.
75 Posted 16/03/2009 at 14:18:21
Do the same for Rooney and see what happens....in this day and age though maybe you would make it more sort of ironic as in,
"ROONEY, ROONEY!! (you fat bastard, you fat bastard)"
I’ll get my coat
76 Posted 16/03/2009 at 15:08:28
77 Posted 16/03/2009 at 15:20:17
78 Posted 16/03/2009 at 15:58:39
Considering that, from the appearance of things, the only thing in your life is your hatred for a boy who left Everton 5 years ago, I shouldn?t really be suprised. And lucky for me, neither myself nor my wife know anyone called Bill Crosby.
Furthermore two things to consider:-
1) would anyone but an Everton fan consider Rooney?s decision to leave, in view of our position at the time and the problems with Moyes, such a bad decision? Would any of you criticised Shearer if he had left Newcastle early or Gerrard left for Chelsea?
2) And have you never done something considered by some to be reproachable when you were a teenager?
79 Posted 16/03/2009 at 18:32:07
He could have given us a good four or five years and then said sorry but I want to win trophy?s.
He would have been only 21 and had another 12 years at the top.
Instead he gave us one season and left! He has since said he would have gone to Newcastle to get away.
Traitor and always will be.
80 Posted 16/03/2009 at 20:11:56
81 Posted 16/03/2009 at 20:17:05
I remember him kissing his shirt during the 2-4 home reverse shortly after the Alan Ball death which was ill-advised and Rooney must have got carried away in the heat of it all but must have realised afterwards that with hindsight it was not the right thing to do especially back at the venue he could of made his own.
Of course the round one did himself no favours not just with his departure from Goodison, but also with his post-match comments at the weekend, so now he is disliked and then some by both halves of Merseyside. I never thought after the Arsenal game in 2002 that less than two years later that same prodigy would be wearing the strip of Manchester United.
83 Posted 16/03/2009 at 23:35:51
You can forgive an ex-player for comments said in the spur of the moment.
You can even forgive an ex-player for selling his soul to the devil,
But once you kiss the badge of the Mancs then it’s game over - no turning back - no forgiveness, not now, not ever...... end of.
84 Posted 17/03/2009 at 08:02:33
That stupid boy stands for all that is bad in the game.
Absolutely disgusted that ?The Times? in their ignorance put him in our top 50 list, as he definitely did more harm than good for the club (and if you say ?but what about the 30 mil?, then you?ve lost your own soul, too...)
Kissing the badge of scum who laugh about scousers dying, in our own home!
If he ever came back i?d shove my season ticket right up his big fat... (tho I?d stick a marigold on first ;-)
85 Posted 17/03/2009 at 10:45:16
Anyway, the first season we ended up sat with Stubbs, Unsie and Rooney ? and a nicer kid you would never wish to meet. Incredibly shy and very much down to Earth.
Fast forward 12 months and Rooney again was there, pretty much refusing to speak to anyone, sign anything and clearly far too big for the club (this was the season of 17th!!!). The ego had landed ? conveniently timed with Stretford taking over his thinking!!! You could sense at that time he was no longer "one of us" and so it transpired.
He screwed us for his own benefit, I?ve no problem with that ? hundreds do it ? but to return with no class and even less consideration for those who paid him his first million showed him for the granny shagging gobshite we all now see.
86 Posted 17/03/2009 at 14:28:27
James Carroll - no, we shouldn?t stop booing him because it quite clearly effects him for the worst. Look at this season's 1-1 game.
The only game he?s been any good against us was when we eased up on the abuse and he came in to his own. The game we were winning 2-0.
I for one enjoy giving that fat little nobhead all the abuse I can. Just for the record, Stubbs is another gobshite who was way too far up Rooney?s arse and should never have been given a job at club for a number of reasons.
87 Posted 18/03/2009 at 04:45:39
88 Posted 18/03/2009 at 21:00:49
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1 Posted 13/03/2009 at 17:09:30