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South Coast Surrender

By Tony Marsh :  22/03/2009 :  Comments (75) :
Whatever you think of the season thus far, there is no doubt now that we are on one of those all too familiar end-of-season slumps. Our recent away performances have been shocking and you can now add Portsmouth to the list of no-marks who the Blues have struggled against the past few weeks.

I know we have an injury crisis but a team who are sitting 6th in the Premier League and packed full of internationals should be a lot more accomplished against a side of relegation fodder like Pompey. The all-round showing was woeful but some players stood head and shoulders above the rest in the being crap department: Osman again, Saha and Howard were all terrible but no-one else covered themselves in glory either.

The ease in which Portsmouth beat us is a major concern for Moyes's tactics and nous, once he losses some of his best players. I thought towards the end of last year we had turned a corner and the long-ball game had gone... but no ? it's back with a vengeance. An absolutely pathetic way in which to play against a side as big as Pompey.

Pumping aimless long balls to tiny players being marked by 6-ft plus defenders made me cringe. Not once did we play a through ball to feet for someone to run on to. In fact we never do this ?WHY? In the end, we were out-fought and out-classed and that hurts me to have to say so because of who the opposition were.

To say I was embarrassed watching that shit yesterday is an understatement. Not one effort on target apart from the free kick, from which we scored. David James could've read his paper if he wanted to it was that easy for him. So that now makes it no efforts on target from open play from our last 3 away games. WTF IS GOING ON????

Every one of us sat in that poxy ground yesterday knew we wouldn't score from open play the way we were set up yet Moyes chose to sit it out and let untouchable crabs like Leon Osman swan around doing fuck all but make a twat of himself. How come Osman never gets pulled off or dropped even though he has been stinking the place out for over a year now? Oh, sorry, I forgot, he scored a goal against mighty Macclesfield the other month...

Now I know I get called negative and many other things by a lot of you on here but it kills me to see us play like we did yesterday. Please tell me you are not happy with that type of display. It made me feel ill to be honest and I couldn't wait for the drive back home.

The trouble is a certain section of our fanbase who come out with all the pat excuses for this kind of performance haven't got a clue what they are talking about and here's why.

There are many of our lot who, until yesterday, still had ideas of us finishing in 4th place and grabbing a CL berth. Each to their own I suppose. Also, these fans are the same people who keep telling us what a genius Moyes is and for us to get to an FA Cup semi-final only goes to show what a cracking side we have become. "How lucky we are to have Moyes," they say.

So how come, after every horrible performances like the one yesterday and the one at Blackburn the other week, they turn the tables and say... "What do you expect with all the injuries we've got, no money to buy decent players, the squad is so small, Moyes is working wonders with what he has..." blah, blah fucking blah.

So tell me what is it to be because, one minute we are going to the Champions League and winning the FA Cup, and the next thing it's loads of excuses for crap football.

While I acknowledge the injury situation, I don't understand the mentality of those who won't accept what hits them in the face. We fall apart at the same time every season as the football gets harder to stomach.

I ask you: are we any good or are we shite? Is Moyes a good coach or do the better players in the squad carry him? Will this season finish off like the last one or will we rally and get better?

Lots to ponder but I just pray Moyes doesn't think the likes of Osman will stand up to the Mancs at Wembley and we can get a result playing hoofball ? because it will not work, trust me.

Reader Comments

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Seth DeMerit
1   Posted 22/03/2009 at 01:25:57

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It's been an awful long time since I last posted on ToffeeWeb, this is partly due to the fact that I'm currently abroad but also because everyone writes such dam good stuff on ToffeeWeb that I feel can't compete...

However, after watching the live stream at 2am in the morning over here in New Zealand and then looking at the comments that followed I thought I'd just say that - guys things aren't that bad despite yesterday's disappointment at Fratton Park.

We have an awful lot of injuries at the moment and then Cahill missing as well... it was always going to be difficult - Pompey are no pushover, remember ? they did us 3-0 at the Old Lady at the start of the season.

We can consolidate 6th with few more wins and unless I'm very much mistaken, ending the season 6th or 5th has the same reward ? a Uefa Cup spot. So let's not stress about catching Villa, cause at the end of the day they have had a very good season but probably won't go as far in the Uefa Cup as we will next season. Also forget 4th ? Arsenal are back in form and will probably win most of their remaining games.

Now is it me or are we not in a semi-final next month?!!! Oh we are!! So let's start fucking looking forward to it shall we instead of slagging off all and sundry after one shit afternoon down on the south coast!!!! Also I'm kinda getting the feeling that a certain team for whom a certain fat treacherous little pie eating wanker plays for have suddenly and surely gone to rat shit..... so shouldn't we be looking at that situation and thinking we might just do this?!!

Cahill will be playing in the semi-final and if I had to choose between him and Arteta to play, I'd go for Tiny every time. His commitment to Everton is second to none and on semi-final day I truly believe he may pull it off for us. The boys will be well up for it ? and shame on every one of them if they dont play out of their skins to get to the final. If we beat Man Utd in the semi, I believe we will win it.

We'll get 6th maybe 5th at a push. We can get to the final and win it. There is still so much to play for so please lets have some positive input!!!! Cahill to steer us to the final ? Fellaini to win it for us!!!!!!

COYB - and come on you Everton fans THINK POSITIVE!!! And stop slagging Moyes off, cause you know dam well if he suddenly decided to jack Everton, we'd be absolutely fucked!!!!!!!!

Tom Owen
2   Posted 22/03/2009 at 18:05:49

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I think there were a lot of tired legs out there. Hopefully a two-week break will do them good.

Leon Osman has been off form but I?m sure I heard he's carrying a slight injury. I maybe wrong. He seems to drift to deep which means it's rather crowded in the middle so we result in going long. If he played more wide, we could spread the play, balls in the box and maybe score. I'm getting frustated with Pienaar, his end product his woeful and he cannot pass a ball more than 10 yards.

Pompey played very well and deserved the win. However, Crouch was allowed to run in the park and jump up and head the ball. 3 points yesterday for us were vital but we failed to capitalize.

Ajay Gopal
3   Posted 22/03/2009 at 18:13:33

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I can understand your frustrations, Tony. But as you yourself say, a lot of our players went invisble in this game - Saha, Jo, Osman, Fellaini, and Howard and Lescott had bad games. Neville, Baines and Jagielka were rock solid, as usual. Jacobsen had a decent debut, and Pienaar looked always busy.

Not much that Moyes could do today ? maybe Rodwell & Gosling should have started instead of Jo and Osman.

But look at it this way ? we had a bad day at the office, and guess what? So did Manure and Chelsea if that makes you feel any better.

I think Cahill and Hibbo coming back after the international break (and rockets from Moyes up some of the misfiring Blues? backsides) will see us once more to winning ways.

Keep the faith!
Andy Crooks
4   Posted 22/03/2009 at 18:35:29

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Tony, I?ve agreed with many of your posts and I share your frustration at yesterday's performance. However, it seems to me that injuries totally limited the manager's options yesterday. Ok, the performance was lifeless but the set-up of the side was about the best available. I know we don?t expect highly paid players to turn in tired performances but the fact is they do.
Ben Jones
5   Posted 22/03/2009 at 18:50:17

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I got to admit Tony, I agree with you in most of your article, especially with Osman. He may be tired, he may have an injury, but h needs to be dropped. What is wrong with Gosling, why can’t he play there? I know he’s young and raw, but he’d do a better job than Osman, I’m pretty sure of that.

I know this may be a dig at him, but it’s not, he does come up with moments of brilliance, like his goal at Macclesfield that Tony mentioned, but he hasn’t done that enough. He’s a good squad player and his vertaility is important, but he’s not a first teamer. I just want to see Gosling start the next game and Osman on the bench.
Brian Waring
6   Posted 22/03/2009 at 18:48:33

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I can?t accept the injuries excuse for the crap yesterday, they also had players out injured. On paper, that was a strong team we put out yesterday, and should have been enough to turn them over. Also, I couldn?t understand why we kept pumping long balls forward, when everyone of the Pompey back 4 were fucking massive.
Colin Potter
7   Posted 22/03/2009 at 19:08:08

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In 100% ageement with you, Tony. What the hell did Moyes expect Rodwell and Gosling to achieve in the last 4 minutes? He just hasn?t a clue!!
Chris Jones
8   Posted 22/03/2009 at 19:18:49

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Tony - I agree with a lot of what you say but the problem is you tend to jump to the extreme. Like suggesting Moyes isn?t good enough after a couple of poor away displays. Moyes admitted after today and the Blackburn game that it wasn?t good enough.

I think we have to be patient and see how the season pans out. We?ve made some more strides this season and for large periods we?ve had 3 of our best players out - Yakubu, Arteta and Cahill.

I think Gosling and Rodwell may yet be seeing a lot more football this season.
Guy Hastings
9   Posted 22/03/2009 at 19:57:22

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It didn?t take long for the corporate jolly factor to wear off for Champagne Tony. Have to agree, though, it was shite and we really should have defended better against the dancing giraffe. Saha and Jo were woeful, Fella couldn?t be arsed and Pienaar ran and ran and went nowhere. Time to regroup, boys.
Ray Kelly
10   Posted 22/03/2009 at 20:02:37

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At the end of the season, Jo will be shown the door and probably Saha... can we please have Osman stumble through it with them? He's a fucking embarrassment and has been driving fans nuts all season. He would not get in any other team in the Prem or Championship, I just can't see how he's keeping Gosling out of the team.
Sean McKenna
11   Posted 22/03/2009 at 20:25:22

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Like Tony, I agree. I couldn't give a toss who turns up in an Everton jersey on a Saturday as long as they put in the effort and stop playing Sunday League football ? I fucking hate it with a passion!!!!

It's a fucking disgrace that international footballers won't show for the ball, or pass it on the deck!! The only thing that worries me is that Moyes is telling the players to do it!!!! If Jags, Lescott or Baines plays for England, you can guarantee they won't be hoofing it 70 yards up the park!!!! Get it sorted, Moyes!!

Brian Williams
12   Posted 22/03/2009 at 20:41:56

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Welcome back, Tony... you had us worried for a bit! *L*
Chris Halliday
13   Posted 22/03/2009 at 21:05:21

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Like you, Tony, Moyes has disappointed me at times, but yesterday, I can?t really see what he could have done. Sometimes 3 points means more to a team and yesterday Pompey wanted it more. In reality, 4th place has gone and we have over-achieved anyway, so let's stop the Stewards Inquiry after every game and support the team until the end of season, and then make our judgements.
Bob Boston
14   Posted 22/03/2009 at 21:10:26

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Unfortunately, if you want to achieve a Champions League slot you need to beat-up on the "Little Sisters of the Poor" at the bottom of the Table. Can?t let the likes of Portsmouth beat you, even in their home. Injuries, injuries, injuries... ya, ya, ya ? just suck it up and score goals.
Dave Lynch
15   Posted 22/03/2009 at 21:12:22

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Osman is shite! That is fact! He constantly goes missing in the big games.

Jo Is as bad. Fuck the both of em off in the close season.

Chris Halliday
16   Posted 22/03/2009 at 21:14:03

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Bob, are you for real? Injuries is what makes or breaks most teams even at the top. Just look at Aresnal. Yobo, Cahill, Arteta, Yak, Vaughan, Anichebe, Hibbert. That's 7 first-team players, no team could win every game with that amount of key injuries.
Karl Masters
17   Posted 22/03/2009 at 21:10:05

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Firstly, let me say that I am pro-David Moyes. However, I happen to agree with almost all you say.

What frustrates me about Moyes is that the injuries and small squad are just used as a cover-all for everything.

What I don?t understand is why he cannot follow Wenger?s example and set up a system of playing that all players in all teams from Under 8?s to First Team follow. That way, even with injuries etc, you have a player coming in who knows what is expected and does his best to follow it.

That is why nobody threads through balls through, we revert to a form of hoof ball and we have not had a shot on target from open play in an away game since early in the Newcastle game.

I flagged up my concerns about our away form last week and I think many people thought I was being negative, but it is now a concern. 3 crap performances at bottom 6 teams on the bounce. Another chance to catch Villa lost, although I think Arsenal would have been a step too far this season, due to points dropped at places where we could have taken all 3.

Do you know that in the 6 games this season against Shite like Pompey, Blackburn and Newcastle we have managed just 3 draws and 3 points from a possible 18? This one thing alone has shown we are not yet Top 4 quality.

Come on Moyesy ? sort it out! You have done a good job and made us proud, but this needs addressing.

Ross Keeley
18   Posted 22/03/2009 at 20:38:45

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I'm a Blue living in Essex so only get to the odd game and watch whenever we are on tv.

I have never posted before but the constant Moyes bashing whenever we get beat is embarrassing from so-called football fans. I have a lot of respect for the fans that go to the games week-in, week-out but how can people say Moyes doesn't have a clue, he has kept us punching above our weight since his been in charge (apart from one year of course).

I agree Rodwell should have been brought on earlier yesterday as for me Fellaini wasn't at the races and should have been tighter to Crouch for the second goal but to slag the manager off for every little thing he gets wrong is a joke.

I don't rate Osman or Yobo from the current crop and also think Pienaar struggles on the left but could be effective if played on the right seeing as he is all right footed. An out-and-out left winger for me is a priority next season as it's a position I think we struggled with since Kilbane left (even though he wasn't the greatest at least he had a left foot). Another quality creative player like Mikel is also needed as we rely too much on him for the craft and vision, which is why we look so poor in a lot of the games he misses.

I for one never thought Champions League football was on the cards this season and, after seeing teams like Man City, Spurs and Villa spend big again, you could argue that any finish in the top 8 or 9 would have been a good effort. So for me, qualifying for the Europa League is another good season regardless of what the FA Cup brings.

Ok we finished fifth last season so the natural progression would be to aim for fourth but with the type of players the "top four" can attract it will be almost impossible to achieve. Let's not kid ourselves and believe we are genuine Champions League contenders because until we get real investment it will only be a pipe dream.

I have loved this club for 22 years and understand the frustrations when we lose but can't agree with the stick Moyes gets. As I said earlier, he may not get every decision right but when I look back over the seven years he's been in charge, I for one am glad he's the gaffer of my team.
Terry Smith
19   Posted 22/03/2009 at 21:27:43

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What pissed me off the most yesterday is that there were too many passengers in the squad. If Cahill played yesterday, you may've seen a difference in Osman, Pienaar & Fellaini?s game (only my opinion). Gosling would've given 100% if given a earlier chance. Wembley is round the corner and you would think they would be playing at their best to be in that squad.
James Boden
20   Posted 22/03/2009 at 20:42:03

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Have to agree here, Tony, it was rather dire to say the least. Long ball against a massive side is not going to work ? that is so obvious. For goodness sake I swear if Osman plays one more game for Everton, I will punch myself. And another one who is having a bad spell is Howard. All our goals in last few months he?s been at fault for.

As soon as Arteta got injured it was so blatantly obvious that panic stations would hit and they have. And then without Cahill we have nothing. Another terrible performance against a side fighting relegation sums it all up. From being a must-win game to stay in battle for 4th, at this rate it?ll be a struggle for 6th spot.

A despondent Evertonian, to say the least.

Mike Price
21   Posted 22/03/2009 at 21:29:59

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Tony?s right, as I?m sure most of us know. Moyes has been lucky this season: out of Europe early was fortunate, we had some crap performances but managed to steal late vital points, and the injuries allowed him to stumble, by default, into the 4-6 formation with shining star Cahill playing out of his skin.

Our season was the redshite trilogy and credit is due there, but you get the feeling of resting on laurels now. We?ve over-achieved with a small squad, injuries etc so we revert to a likely glorious failure and a stumble over the line playing hoofball.

I don't mind Moyes, even though he seems to be a very slow learner and he wasted our entire transfer budget on a cart-horse, but I will not be unhappy when he goes.

Tony Williams
22   Posted 22/03/2009 at 21:59:27

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Managing is very easy after the game, you can tell us where we went wrong, the hard part is predicting that before the game and amending the injury ravaged team to counteract that.

Retrospect is a wonderful thing isn?t it.
Ted Roberts
23   Posted 22/03/2009 at 22:15:13

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We lost, we played poorly. Get over it, we were probably due an off day. United had one yesterday too, as did Chelsea.
Stuart Duncan
24   Posted 23/03/2009 at 00:07:53

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The fact is we are a 5th to 10th team. No more. The money gap between us (the "have somethings") and the "have lots" is too big to bridge. I can’t see a big money offer ever coming in for Everton. 5 teams now have big money behind them (including City) and there are only 4 places that can make a return. No one wants to throw a lot at us or Villa or Spurs when the chances of a financial return are so poor.

So that’s it. We are playing for 5th place and an outside chance of a cup win. It’s not so strange. Scotland has had a top 2 plus the rest for years. England has had a top 4 plus the rest for some time and, except for City’s money, it isn’t going to change.
Anthony Dyer
25   Posted 23/03/2009 at 00:10:27

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Yesterday, WBA, M?boro (first half), Newcastle, Blackburn, Stoke (2nd Half) ? that I?m afraid is more than just one bad day at the office. Winning 1 in 2 is not enough to get in to the CL and that is what Moyes record shows. He gets on average 1.5 to 1.65 points a game.

We have 8 points fewer at this stage than we had after 30 games last season. When will the players realise that all we ask for is 100% in every game, had we played well and lost it would make defeat a little easier to handle. Playing badly and losing to an average team is very hard to take, especially for all those who travelled down to Pompey.

Steve Ryan
26   Posted 23/03/2009 at 00:08:55

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The perennial problem with Everton is our MIDFIELD. Even with a fully fit squad, our midfield lacks physical & mental strength, character, pace, and MOST importantly, consistency. This team will never win a trophy when our midfielders play one good game in four.

Seven years on and Moyes has yet to find that elusive, athletic, box-to-box player. Time and time again, blinkered people on this site make poor excuses for Osman (carrying an injury for 2 years), Pienaar (other players can?t anticipate his passes) and Fellaini (can?t speak English) as they did for Arteta who was crap for the first part of this season and most of last season. Only Cahill can be relied upon to perform consistently, especially when it matters against the big clubs.

For a number of years now, the midfield has required a complete overhaul as it?s clearly not good enough to take us to the next level. Regarding Moyes, his character, loyalty and eye for talent in the lower divisions cannot be questioned; however, in my opinion he is tactically quite average considering he is being paid over 3 million quid a year.

By the way, those of you who thought 6 years of over-cautious hoofball was a thing of the past; did you witness our last 3 away games against shite opposition? This is not a knee-jerk reaction as I and others have been making the same comments for years now; it's just my opinion.

Steve Williams
27   Posted 22/03/2009 at 23:02:03

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Standing (Tony, I don?t know where you were ?sitting? as no Evertonian sat thoroughout the whole game) in the ground yesterday, I tried to explain to my son why things had gone horribly wrong. Now I?ll try with some of you (although you are not 14, so should know better and should stop whinging) ...

We don?t have enough players who can ?make a difference? to a game. You know, those special players who the opposition worry about, those that get the others playing, those that keep good possession, those that create out of nothing and those that do it consistently. But do you know something ? those players are the ones that all teams want, hence they cost top dollar! Just in case you didn?t know ? we are skint, have been for years and unless a sugar daddy comes along, will be for quite a bit longer.

So, although it grieves me to say it, 5th, 6th, 7th is just about the best we can hope for ? however it happens with whatever results we manage to conjure up.

Satisfied with that? No? Well, nor am I! But quite frankly, in the short term there is NO CHOICE! We plainly don?t have the resources to effect a change ? either in players or management. Those who understand need no (further) explanation, those that don?t, never will!

This is all strategic, longer-term thinking... however, as far as yesterday was concerned, having read the Pompey programme in their non-league ground, their leading goalscorers were:

Crouch - 13, followed by
Hreidarsson on 3!

So who do you think posed greatest threat?

As Crouch doesn?t score outside of the six-yard box, why didn?t we concentrate on this? I can see this, so can you. So why don?t Moyes, the coaches, Woods and Howard major on this?

I guess overall, we aren?t as good as some of us thought. Perhaps 5th, 6th, 7th is about right after all.
Gary Tan
28   Posted 23/03/2009 at 01:35:37

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Now, I do agree with most of what was posted on this thread. Osman being shit, Fella, Saha, Lescott... etc having a poor game. There are just two points I want to touch on.

1) Giving credit to Portsmouth for playing well. Whenever we beat one of the so-called better teams, we are also complaining that the press doesn?t give credit to Everton for playing well, it's always the opposition who played poorly. Portsmouth played well, we didn?t... and for my money, they deserved the win.

2) Gosling. A lot of fans are screaming that we should start his lad in place of Osman. Sure, Osman had been very poor of late but when on form, he is definitely a proven Premier League player (though not necessarily a Top Four team player and he still needs replacing in the summer). When Gosling is on form, he is... well, none of us really know do we? He had a couple of good run-outs but to suddenly suggest that he should start all our remaining games, cause he can make a positive influence, is too far of a stretch. I for one would like to see him used sparingly and nurture him carefully so that we can have a chance at grooming him into a really good Everton player. If that means sticking to Ossie in the meantime, so be it.

I know that I will receive flak for that second bit, but hey, we are all entitled to our opinions.
Andy Hegan
29   Posted 23/03/2009 at 01:48:29

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Tony, good article as ever. Generally speaking, I am a Moyes supporter but when it comes to strikers, he has a real blank spot. I get the feeling that he sees the the central defender position as the be-all and end-all and that strikers just have to turn up.

Service to the strikers has always been woeful, long high balls being the order of the day. How often did we see Beattie receive a cross from the by-line or Johnson a ball to feet for him to run on to ? or either for Yakubu? It's my opinion that he ruined the first two and will do the same with Yak, if he ever recovers from injury.

Peter Bradshaw
30   Posted 23/03/2009 at 02:13:49

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What makes me cringe is we will soon be talking about who we need to be rid of and who we are bringing in. Over the park it is reported that Rafa will have over £50 million to spend on improving his squad. What will we have? Moyes will have to sell to buy until the TV money comes in a week before the end of the transfer window.

It was mentioned in an earlier part of the thread that we are a 5th to 10th team, I totally agree; therefore, the likes of Lescott, Cahill, Arteta, Jags, Yakubu ? are they going to be happy with this situation? To be honest, I can see a Sky5 club coming in for Lescott and if offered £15 million do you think Moyes will reject? ... err, no!

In the close season I think it will again prove to be a nightmare, we will lose Lescott, and the quality Moyes will bring in, well that remains to be seen???

Gary Sedgwick
31   Posted 23/03/2009 at 02:46:19

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Quote: "but a team who are sitting 6th in the Premier League and packed full of internationals..." Let?s see:

Howard ? proven USA international but is the US a proven quality international side?

Jacobsen ? proven Danish international but his first match in how long? Again Denmark quality?

Jags/Lescott ? English internationals but hardly proven, with how many games for England between them?

Baines ? not even an international player yet.

Osman ? will never be an international.

Neville ? proven international but when did he last play for England on a consistant basis?

Fellaini ? proven Belgian international. Again, Belgium quality?

Pienaar ? proven South African international. Again, South Africa quality?

Saha ? when did he last play for France?

Jo ? supposedly a Brazilian international. Brazil quality? You bet.

It is easy to write "full of international players", hell even some League 1/2 teams can quote the same blanket statement. How many caps in the recent past, say three years to cover all major competitions, have the above mentioned international players accrued between them? Not many and even if the total were ridiculously high how many were earned playing for major international sides? Ermm... only those earned playing for Brazil for me although many would put playing for England dubiously into the same category.

It is not how many but how good. A bit like the way some people belittle the Uefa/Europa Cup when compared to the CL. Which would you prefer to compete in?

Face it, our team is not packed with quality international players just international players. Some are good but unfortunately play for lesser regarded countries (Howard, Fellaini, Cahill) so will get recognition easier by those countries.

Now if all our international players played for the likes of Germany, Italy, Spain, Brazil, France(?) ? powerhouses of the international game ? I would have read the post with more interest rather than curiosity.
Dave Wilson
32   Posted 23/03/2009 at 07:00:48

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Why do we play hoofball?

That's obvious, Hibbert, Jags, Neville, Yobo and Lescot can't pass, they need a midfield who will come and take the ball from them, only Pienaar does this (which is why Baines doesn't have to hoof it) but then he gets slaughtered for being "unproductive".
Mark Murphy
33   Posted 23/03/2009 at 11:22:27

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Watch Crouch's second goal again. Our two England international central defenders were not injured and were on the pitch yet he had the time to run all around that box, unopposed and unmarked and unchallenged, for that goal. Our centre-backs and keeper didn't turn up and Baines's goal should have been enough if they had!

Rodwell, Gosling and Cahill back in the side will see us through to 5th spot. (I thought Jacobsen looked the part by the way!)

Mike Green
34   Posted 23/03/2009 at 12:02:29

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We haven?t got the strength and depth in quality ? end of. Moyes and the lads are making the best fist of it they can, they?ve worked their socks off this season.
Gary Hegarty
35   Posted 23/03/2009 at 12:18:04

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Firstly I have to admit to being a Moyes fan. This doesn?t mean however that I have to agree with all that he does. I do believe that he has done extremely well with less money than HBOS and an injury list robbing us of so many first team players. Saying that, some of the decisions he makes frustrate the life out of me.

Why, when we were struggling with numbers at the start of the season, was he happy to gamble with Baxter and now he has got even less numbers available he doesn?t get a look in? I know he?s a kid but he looks a very talented player ? particularly when on the ball ? something that the likes of Jo can?t seem to manage. Jo was about as menacing to the Pompey back line as a plate of jelly, just with a worse first touch but as he is only available for league games, you can guarantee that he will start every game when fit.

We missed the energy of Cahill. He seems to be infectious on everyone around him and when he is missing, this seems to disappear likewise ? you only have to see the difference in the Stoke game to see that. Neville tries to energise any fair play to him but, when he has that enigma next to him lumbering around, it?s difficult.

Saturday was a strange game as I thought that, if pushed, the Portsmouth defence would crumble... but on countless occasions, Pienaar, Jo and Osman got to the edge of the box and then pretended to be Charles Charlie Charles eventually tripping over the ball or simply giving it away.

The hope is that in the next 2 weeks we get back to just playing quick and simple football. This means getting Rodwell into the middle as he is the most comfortable with the ball that we have.

Hopefully Tim stays fit and Vaughan comes through to give us an option up front but if not, why not revert to Jose and see what he can do ? the kids have done us proud so far ? let?s keep the theme!
Richard Harris
36   Posted 23/03/2009 at 12:47:00

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A poor performance but we?ve overachieved against the odds for quite some time and we?re just running out of steam. And although we have been poor against Newcastle, Blackburn and Portsmouth, it is less embarassing than Manchester United being outplayed by Liverpool and (ffs) Fulham or Aston Villa?s woeful performance yesterday.

4th spot was always unrealistic with our poor start to the season, the injuries to key players and the limited squad and at least the majority of Everton fans aren?t deluded in the same way as Tottenham or Newcastle fans!!!

Tony Marsh
37   Posted 23/03/2009 at 12:57:01

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We can make excuse after excuse for poor displays but my argement is why do we always revert back to hoofball when we have injuries? I mean are you telling me that professional football players at Everton cannot function properly because Arteta is out?

Our best player is injured so the rest of the squad turn in to alehouse Sunday League players? WHY? I don't get it?What is stoping the team playing balls to feet like we have been doing for most of 2009? Surely Arteta isn't the only player in the squad who can trap a ball and pass it is he? If this is the case then Moyes has wasted 7 years.
Tony Williams
38   Posted 23/03/2009 at 13:03:33

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It?s a good thing that we have a break now for the internationals so we can get Tim back... unless he goes off and plays for the Socceroos and gets injured again.

Watch Jags or Lescott get injured now training with Ingurland...
Patty Beesley
39   Posted 23/03/2009 at 13:09:46

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Funny ... having watched the RS v Villa game yesterday, I could have swore that hoofball led to two of their goals.

Pompey?s second goal should never have been... they should never have been awarded the corner that led to the goal.

Tony Williams
40   Posted 23/03/2009 at 14:11:31

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Tony it is has been discussed on many occassions why the defenders end up hoofing the ball, no one in the mid field shows for it. It is a simple solution and unfortunately no one remaining in our midfield is doing that, either they are not skillful enough or are too scared to receive it.

As a defender I know what is going through their minds when no-one is showing, do I try and go forward with the chance I could be dispossed and be out of possition or I try to put a half decent lump to my forward, who can control it and lay it off. I wasn’t an established dribbler so usually it was a punt/pass either to the forward or down the line for the winger to chase.

As a defender it is always safety first.

Can you imagine Jags trying to jinx his way through the midfield?
Nelly Blythe
41   Posted 23/03/2009 at 14:01:49

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I am so fed up of the SHITE hoofball tactics employed by MOYES... yes MOYES... that after 13 seasons I WILL NOT be renewing my season ticket next season, even if we do get lucky and win the FA Cup.

I am sick to fucking death of watching over-rated, over-paid lazy bastards who can't pass a ball to save their lives & continually surrender possession to the opposition when not even under pressure... the away performances at places like Wigan, Blackburn, Newcastle, Portsmouth have been nothing short of embarrassing.

My 9-year-old son is stronger on the ball than Osman and Fellaini and Jo... well, they?re just fucking shite ? no enthusiasm, no desire and most importantly NO FUCKING HEART.

Most of you will carry on making excuses for this type of garbage but me... I?ve had enough.
Mick Hard
42   Posted 23/03/2009 at 14:37:27

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Nelly, I hope you don?t renew your season ticket. I used to sit near someone like you so take it from me ? whoever you sit next to will be glad your gone.
Chris Brigden
43   Posted 23/03/2009 at 14:43:05

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Nelly = Negative.
You may be disguted with the team, but I?m disgusted with your attitude. Fans like you don?t deserve the honour of watching the mighty blues. We should see the Pompey game as a wake-up call.
Andrew Bennett
44   Posted 23/03/2009 at 14:32:23

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Nelly I have only one thing to say to you....good. Glad you?re giving up your season ticket cos the less people like you there are at Goodison and the more people we have who actually support Everton Football Club and back them through thick and thin the better.

I?d even like to bet you?re one of the many thousands who turn up week-in, week-out and sit in silence. Lost count the amount of times I had to listen to away teams this season singing because I can?t hear sod all from the Everton fans. You want a bit of enthusiasm, desire and heart on the pitch then give some yourself from the stands. Might find it works.

Patty Beesley
45   Posted 23/03/2009 at 15:28:21

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Nelly - now you are sounding like a very petulant spolt woman stamping her feet and I know you are a fella. Why not act like one... get behind the team. Did they dare lose a game after going unbeaten for so long... shame on them!!
Jon Dunnett
46   Posted 23/03/2009 at 15:41:25

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I?m still with Moyes. Start of the season I wouldn?t have minded if he has gone but I?m glad he stayed. It's some of the players that I am dispondent with.

I?m sorry, but Leon Osman is simply not good enough, and hasn?t been for a few seasons, odd performance aside. Dan Gosling is a better player.

Steven Pienaar, I lose count how often he gives balls away and surrenders possession yet he is treated like a messiah. I only give him a break because he works hard.

Jo ? send this tosser back now, I?ll get my boots on instead.

Fellaini ? love him or hate him, he is not worth £15m in any lifetime. I?m still on the fence, so I will let him slide for now. Next season will make or break him.

Everyone else is ok in my book, we just have too many injuries to be able to rotate the first eleven. On a positive note, I thought Jacobsen looked good considering it was his debut.

Tony Williams
47   Posted 23/03/2009 at 16:00:22

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See you later Nelly, no surprise the 13 years coincides with the season after we won the FA cup. Fair weather glory hunter, see you later.
Tony Williams
48   Posted 23/03/2009 at 16:04:30

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As an afterthought can I ask why you haven’t shared this revelation with us sooner? Say 5-6 weeks ago?
Ian Smitham
49   Posted 23/03/2009 at 18:30:52

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Post removed for sarcasm (or stupidity)... If you aren't going to make sensible posts... don't!
Karl Masters
50   Posted 23/03/2009 at 19:55:34

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One thing to bear in mind wirth Fellaini.

So far we have only paid £4.5m down with up to another £10m to be paid in instalments depending upon appearances, success etc.

You could argue that if we sold him in the Summer for £6m that we had lost £9m and whoever bought him would think they had a bargain. In fact we’d be £1.5m ahead when all his instalments finally came through.

Another bit of smoke and mirrors from BK. I hope, however he proves to be a success and we don’t sell him. I like the Big Gazoom. Don’t quite know why yet, but I do and I think he’ll be much improved next season.
John Brennan
51   Posted 23/03/2009 at 19:49:10

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I watched the game on tv and we were outplayed and outmuscled by Pompey. Even after Baines scored so early, I felt uncomfortable about the size and speed of some of their players versus ours. I agree Jo and Saha offered very little threat and I cringe at the number of times our defenders hoof the ball out straight to the opposition.

As so many of you have said already, we are not playing particularly attractive football. We should be seeking to retain possession more, pass instead of hoof, and keep the ball on the ground. We don't want to be Stoke City with more points.

Agreed, it was disappointing to see our England centre-backs so easily brushed aside by Crouch, but we offered nothing in attack in the second half. The worrying thing is that this isn't the first time we have faded in our away games recently.

I agree that Jacobsen did well considering the time he has been out and he deserves more games. Fellaini is whingeing too much at the moment instead of working harder and too many of the others are giving the ball away too easily.

I do agree, however, that around about 5th or 6th is the limit of our expectations given everything that's been said. Let's hope that the game against Wigan is slightly more entertaining than the one at the JJB (and Cahill played in that one)!!!!!

Clyde McPhat
52   Posted 23/03/2009 at 20:50:05

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On the 2nd goal by Pompey, Howard was fouled by Kanu as Howard made his way toward the ball. The referee was looking elsewhere. If you have it on your machines at home, watch it again.

And if you really, really think about it, Pompey needed this match more than we needed it.
Stephen Stuart
53   Posted 23/03/2009 at 21:28:24

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Tony, I disagree with you. David James wrote the next three articles for his Guardian column.
Phil Kempsell
54   Posted 23/03/2009 at 22:18:19

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I don?t mean to cause a disturbance, but I?m with Nelly on this one. Everton underperformed and Portsmouth wanted it more.
Tony Williams
55   Posted 23/03/2009 at 23:24:39

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When you say you are with Nelly, Phil, does that mean you will not be renewing your season ticket because we got beat by Pompy?
Dick Fearon
56   Posted 23/03/2009 at 18:58:35

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Seems like only yesterday that on this forum I was fending off Cahill critics. Some would sell, swap or at least, drop him. 'Bite his hand off' they said when it was rumoured someone might buy him.

They said he was a thug, he lacked silky Osman like skills... We can do much better without him, they said. My words were belittled due to the fact that I live in Australia. No matter that I played the game for 25 years on the parks of South Liverpool and on terraces around the country supporting Everton. Ah yes, it seems like only yesterday.

Christine Foster
57   Posted 24/03/2009 at 07:40:07

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Well I guess I qualify as a "foot stomping, petulant woman" although I personally would draw the line at spoilt!

Seriously though, I was really dissapointed with the strike partnership of Jo and Saha, neither of whom looked interested, although I must admit it was the first time I have seen Jo chase down defenders... that was new and welcome to his game.

But the fact was 4 in midfield, and a poor 4 on the day, got overun by a team with more desire (not skill).

The defence pairing of Jags and Lescott looked decidedly off. When you see the crap being dished out to Everton players by the likes of Huth and getting away with it, why didn?t we even attempt to keep a man on man with the Giraffe? That's all they had... no; we played zonal defence... pass him on... Baines or Jacobsen... midgets in comparison. No-one marshalled the defence. Period.

Hoofball happens when there is no midfield. Well said. Exactly right. So bang it up to their 7-ft centre backs... for a 10-second respite.

I used to cry when I saw Yobo do this every game. But to see the whole back four do it... well that's midfield plain and simple.

Moyes should have taken off one of the strikers and put Gosling / Rodwell or Castillo on. In fact he should have taken MF and Osman off too... because frankly they couldn?t have been as bad.
Dave Wilson
58   Posted 24/03/2009 at 07:35:41

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Dick, Cahill most definitely lacks silky skills on the ball, he can't see or execute a pass, he can't even take a pass, and he can't beat a man; he also lacks discipline.
However, what Tim has cant be taught, coaches have been trying to teach kids timing since forever, but you either have it or you don?t.
Tim's timing is complemented by genuine bravery, an ability to find a yard even in packed areas and a prodigious leap. Silky skills or not, he has a reputation and presence. He has some of the games top defenders running scared before a ball is even kicked.

Is Cahill a thug? No way... but it's a mans game and I love the way he gets his retaliation in first.

Come back soon, Tim!
David Chait
59   Posted 24/03/2009 at 08:38:41

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Glad it has been spotted the hoof ball is being forced by no midfield players in an area to collect.. When Arteta is in the middle then he wants it and hoof ball stops... and of course *cough* Manny *cough* was the other... no one else is bothered to collect...
Alasdair Mackay
60   Posted 24/03/2009 at 10:13:57

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What we missed on Saturday was energy and enthusiasm. Our best performance of recent weeks was the first half against Stoke when we had Cahill and Neville in midfield. Having those two at the heart of our team is exactly what we need at the moment, as their enthusiam and desire rubs off on the likes of Ossie and Felli and suddenly we have a hard working team that harries, chases and frightens opponents. A team that takes the initiative - a lot like Portsmouth did to us!

I agree that we need midfielders to come and ask for the ball from the defenders. This is something that Arteta does and Neville does. Neville has always struggled with what to do next and often knocks it straight back to a defender, who then hoofs it and we are back at square one.

The reality is that it IS injuries that are effecting our performances. However, the fact remains that Arsenal and Villa both have a togher run-in than us and, consequently, I still don’t belive that 4th is impossible. It is very very tough, but there is no pressure or expectation and if we reach for 4th we can at least be guaranteed of securing 5th or 6th.

In terms of Saturday; I thought Jacobsen did okay considering how little football he has had, Neville was good, but lacked the support around him because Felli (who had a stinker) did not offer it to him. Ossie (traditionally one of my favourite players for his work-rate and ability to score goals of real quality) was anonymous for about the 10th consecutive game. He has the ability, but he needs something to happen for him at the moment to lift his confidence/concentration/determination. Piennar worked hard and Baines was also very good. Jo was abysmal.

Despite a bad performance, we nopw have two weeks to allow certain individuals to recover. We could have as mnay as 14 players to pick from for the next league game - imagine!!
Nelly Blythe
61   Posted 24/03/2009 at 11:11:03

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I?ll take a wager that all of you who have slagged me off have NEVER actually PLAYED the game to any decent standard.

It?s not the fact that they the way they lose... without putting up a fight...

Tony.... 13yrs coincided with when I stopped playing the game not because of an FA Cup win. For your info, I could have actually had a ticket for that match but refused to take it because I didn?t feel it was appropriate for me to take a ticket ahead of anyone who had actually been going the game that season.<

I also had a season ticket up until I was 16 prior to that ... then I began to play on a Saturday (at a level where I was actually being paid hence I stopped going the match).

As for questioning my love or support of the club because I might not SING at the match well that?s just laughable... I go to the game to watch a football match ? If I want to sing, I will go to a pop concert.

Obvioulsy some people are too busy SINGING rather than watching what?s actually happening on the pitch. But for a couple of months before Christmas LAST season, Moyes has played hoofball throught his entire reign as manager. Many of you blame the players but as he actually bought them, blaming the players doesn?t really make sense.

Time and time again people have slaughtered Tony Marsh on here for having the temerity to critisize.. when he has actually been making very good sense. Anyone who thinks Everton play good football are kidding theselves...

Just because I don't agree with the way Moyes plays the game doesn?t mean I?m a bad supporter or anti-Everton ? it just means I don?t believe I am getting value for money so I?ve decided not to pay and watch anymore.

At the game or not, I?ll still want Everton to win because I love them.

And before anyone asks... yes, I will be going to Wembley and I want them to WIN... but if we play the way we have played in most of our recent away games, resort to hoofball and show no desire whatsoever ? a la Jo (I know he won't be playing), Saha, Fellaini, Osman etc ? who in their heart of hearts believes we are going too!!...

Suppose I?ll get slagged off again...

Ciarán MacGiolla Eoin
62   Posted 24/03/2009 at 14:06:22

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Apparently it?s a sin to be negative on here... even if it's misconstrued realism.

Watch yourself Nelly, the penance for such honesty is pre-mod.
Chris Brigden
63   Posted 24/03/2009 at 14:24:07

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Nelly, your attempt to justify earlier comments is unnecessary and what's more, unsuccessful. You don?t love the club. One poor performance appears to be enough to have made you give up faith ? that is not the Everton way and I?m glad no one will stand for it!
Anthony Dyer
64   Posted 24/03/2009 at 14:54:26

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Chris, you?re being very unfair on our Nelly. Can you honestly say that the football we have paid to watch over the last seven years has been a joy to watch!?! Apart from sporadic outbreaks of on-the-floor football, we have in the main grafted our way to mostly narrow wins.

It is not just about the game at Pompey, where mitigating circumstances may help to explain the poor performance. But even games which we have won away at City, West Ham etc were similar in style to what happened on Saturday. Have we become so immune to proper football that the final score is the only thing that matters?

If a band continued to play out of tune and release sub-standard material, would you travel the length and breadth of the country to watch them and fork out for everything they released just because you were a fan? No wonder BK allegedly thinks that we are all beer-swilling idiots.

Every supporter has the right to refuse to pay to watch their team if they feel that they are being short-changed. It doesn?t mean that they don?t care about how the team does.

If you play good football more often than not you will win. Unfortunately, Moyes's successful results have led to all teams outside the top 4 playing this industrious, presssing game and it is tedious to watch let alone enjoy.

I want to see Phil Neville lift the cup at Wembley but, more important than that, I want to come away from most games feeling that I have watched my team play good football.

Tony Williams
65   Posted 24/03/2009 at 18:18:22

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Anthony, it has been proven on many an occassion that when we have a full team and our Rosetta Stone, Arteta, is fit, we do play good passing football; however, we usually end up with an injury to an important player and it all goes to shit.

The last few seasons, we have sporradically played some fantastic football but we have also played some outright horrendous stuff too... but to come on playing the "I am not renewing" crap is irritating and, in the essence of the game, irrelevant. OK don?t renew but don?t feel the need to publicise it. What does he want? Does he want reassurances or fans to beg him to stay.... he won?t get that here. He will get a sarcastic comment and a cheerio.

Ciaran your having a laugh aren?t you? This is without doubt one of the most negative sites I visit, I have been put in premod for being too optimistic and sarcastic to the constant "moaners".

So Nelly because you were lucky enough to have a bit more skill than others and play to a professional/semi-professional(?) level, you consider your view is better than other fans, some who love the game, are obsessed with it and dissect every tiny incident; however, you can kick/tackle/dribble better than them so it?s clear you are more knowledgable and have deeper feelings for the game than them!!

As I said before, see you later, you will not be missed at Goodison, certainly not by me when I am cheering on the Blues in my seat in the Lower Gwladys.
Christine Foster
66   Posted 24/03/2009 at 18:56:16

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Negative or just realistic?

This is a passionate forum where many including myself come to praise, question or even vent their feelings over football, the team, the manager or the club.

For Tony Williams to state that its the most negative site does ToffeeWeb and its contributors a massive disservice.

Agreed there are negative perspectives mostly borne out of sheer frustration with what we see but to counter ths there are many positive contributions to be found every day if one wants to look for them.

It's natural when a team plays well to see the positive and the accolades and conversly if they are not then vice versa.

Above all, ToffeeWeb is a place where you get a good cross section of the support base as opposed to the official site which ignores any of the difficult questions that fans are asking.

Speaking as a contributor who has been praised AND condemmed on this site I think it offers a more realistic perspective than most and an honest, from the heart set of opinions in the main.

We all want the best for our club, we all want is too succeed, we are passionate too, but negative? No, just realistic.
Tony Williams
67   Posted 24/03/2009 at 19:54:33

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Christine, it is not a disservice, it is simply my view. I consider this site very negative ? just look at the explosion of posts after we got beaten by Pompey. It was quite quiet for a while after the FA Cup and Stoke game, now it is a hotbed of who can we blame and how can we deride Moyes. On many other forums and funnily enough in the actual press/media not too long ago it has been portrayed as such so it seems that I am not alone in my thinking.

Don?t get me wrong; it is still a great site and one I visit frequently but sometimes the posters do go over the top.
Neil McKinney
68   Posted 24/03/2009 at 20:14:04

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Tony ? I agree with much of your argument. What I don?t agree with is the instant Moyes-out attitude that you take every time we lose. We all know you have issues with Moyes, but it?s not always about him. I suppose we should start questioning Mr Ferguson after his team?s last two pathetic displays? Sometimes the team will have a bad day at the office (or bad few days) it?s called form and it?s part and parcel. However, I have no problems with your (and other?s) debate over what is going wrong etc, that?s what these sites are for.

Nelly - sorry fella, you can post as many times as you like trying to justify your first post and it won?t make a blind bit of difference. That was a fucking stupid thing to say and if you mean it then good riddance. Having an opinion on performance, tactics, team selection is one thing, but having a tantrum and giving up your season ticket because you?re sick of watching a team who have consistently been the best of the rest over the last few years is pathetic.

"I?ll take a wager that all of you who have slagged me off have NEVER actually PLAYED the game to any decent standard" - FFS get off your high horse! What?s that got to do with people criticising your over reaction to our poor form? Some of you can defend this attitude if you want, but in my opinion it is childish.

What?s with all this them and us shit. The negative and the positive. I don?t think about being negative or positive when I post I just call it how I see it. Why must some always have an agenda when they post? Even Tony?s been posting some more positive articles lately and it?s good to see. IMHO when Tony lifts himself out of his Moyes hating daze once in a while, his articles are actually quite an entertaining and thought provoking read.

Stop all this divisive shit and just debate the issues without spitting dummies out and turning it into a circus.

Just my two penneth.

Nelly Blythe
69   Posted 25/03/2009 at 10:30:21

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Happy to be ?best of the rest? just about sums up the ambition of the majority on this subject... sorry I want us to be (or at least try to be) BEST of the BEST...

Don't give me crap about no money... it?s the tactics that make us play the way we do ? not the lack of finances.

Tony Williams... no I dont think my view is better than anyone else just that it?s exactly that... MY VIEW.

I never doubted anyone?s passion for Everton but some questioned mine just because I don't go along with the theory that Moyes (& his tactics) is great.

If this is the case, justify why he has moved our best central defender out of postion to accomodate a player who he obviously has a soft spot for. He was happy to play Jacobsen v Pompey ? why not before? ? That?s just one example of his baffling selections/tactics... I can give you lots more if you like.

Chris Brigden... ?one poor performance seems to be enough to make me give up the faith...? ? One poor performance! Are you joking??? It?s not just the last few away performances... it?s been the majority of the last seven years but if some of you want to make excuses and be happy to be the ?best of the rest? then so be it... it?s your opionion and you?re entitled to it. Obviously I?m not entitled to mine as it differs from yours.
Tony Williams
70   Posted 25/03/2009 at 12:22:09

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Nelly, I am not happy with being the "Best of the rest", we are not even that, but I am not unrealistic in my views of what this present squad can achieve.

It is your view is it? Why bring in the fact that you have played professionally/semi professionally then? What difference does that make and how does it prove your views any more valid?

Lack of money does make a difference, as if we had a stack load we could buy players that are consistently good over the course of the season not sporadically, we could rest our best players after a niggly injury not given them an injection and ask them to play through the pain (even Saha has done that for us, something he never did at ManUre, which can only offer an insight into Moyes man-management skills)

"He was happy to play Jacobsen v Pompey why not before?" ? because Yobo wasn?t injured before and Jags was playing there, simple really.

You are obviously entitled to your opinion, so is everyone; the issue I took umbrage with was your need to shout it from the rooftops that you were not renewing your season ticket. Who really gives a shit, mate? Point out issues all you want but save us the "Moyes is so bad I can?t take watching Everton anymore and now refuse to go" speeches, ironically in a season where we have reached the FA Cup semi?s and looking good again for Europe.
Chris Brigden
71   Posted 25/03/2009 at 17:35:35

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Nelly, you?re derranged. We will NEVER be the best of the best while the ?big four? are all financially superior. Sell your season ticket and do us real fans a favour.
Nelly Blythe
72   Posted 25/03/2009 at 17:53:17

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Tony.... by your 'money makes a difference' stance, I take it that you?re suggesting that the current players in the first team are not good enough to play football on the floor.... and you have obviously missed ( or chose to ignore ) the point about Yobo. Jags isn?t a full back ? Jacobsen is... why displace Jags to accomodate Yobo???

We reached a semi-final and Europe last year, didn?t we? Negative football (ie, hoofball) got us knocked out of both competitions (Chelsea & Leige).

You are entitled to be happy with semi-finals and qualifying for Europe... personally, I would prefer us to actually WIN something and I believe the PRESENT squad could win something if they tried to play football and not hoofball.

Win the FA Cup and finish tenth ? or finish 5th every year and win nothing... FA Cup everytime for me. But, as they say, football is a game of opinions... so we?ll just have to agree to disagree.

Chris... you sound like the perverbial spokesperson for Everton FC; get yourself a seat on the board mate because that?s the type of soundbite they regularly come out with.

Over the past few years, Blackburn, Spurs, Portsmouth have all won trophies without being ?financially superior? to the so-called big four, so I can't really accept that arguement, sorry... And as for not being a REAL fan because I dont think Moyes is the Messiah, you obviously think he is ....well really !!

Think I?ve said all I?m gonna say on this matter... Tony it?s been a pleasure swapping OPINIONS...

Chris... If spending my hard earned cash following this club all over the WORLD over the last 40 or so years (playing commitments not withstanding) does not make me a real fan... then I really dont know what does. GOODBYE!!
Tony Williams
73   Posted 25/03/2009 at 18:28:13

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"Over the past few years Blackburn, Spurs, Portsmouth have all won trophies without being ?financially superior ? to the so called big four... so can't really accept that arguement sorry"

Blackburn and Spurs won the Carling/Worthless cup, yep the more wealthy teams go all out for that cup doen?t they? Portsmouth is the first team since us in 95 outside the sky 4 to win the FA Cup..... Well done, mate ? you have really proved your point there!!

I have constantly agreed that Moyes is flawed but I cannot agree that he is anywhere as bad as most of the knee-jerk reactionists who come on here after we have a poor performance.

In regards to your first point, I honestly believe that most of them aren?t good enough to play footy on the floor without our midfield lynchpin Arteta giving them back up, it?s a sad reflection on our team but unfortunately it is my opinion that we aren?t good or skilfull enough at this time to win anything. I am not happy with it but I am not going to stop going the match because of it.
Elle Fed
74   Posted 25/03/2009 at 18:58:34

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Tony & Chris, good on you.
I’m with you both in saying Nelly was rash to make such a negative point. However, our form of late has been nothing short of mediocre.
Nelly Blythe
75   Posted 26/03/2009 at 13:43:49

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Tony... no trophy is worthless...

In my opinion a team’s success should be measured on how many cups/medals you win ...not on where you finish in the league...unless it’s top..

The ’Worthless Cup’ as you put it would guarentee us another place in Europe and would be ANOTHER trophy to add to our honours list (especially as it’s one we’ve never won))

If the other four aren’t interested then all the more reason we SHOULD my opinion.

As I’ve said win a trophy whether it be the Carling/FA/UEFA Cup and finish 10th every year or finish fifth and win nothing...trophy every time.

Why is it that Man U are the richest club in the world.... because their success on the field attracts investment not the other way around. They were not the richest club in the world before 1992 when they started to win TROPHIES...<

If we were to begin winning trophies (worthless or not) on a regular basis we would soon attract the type of investment we so desperately crave and with that attract the type of player who would allow us to play the type of football I so desperately want to see...

Anyway as much as I’ve enjoyed our little ’head to head’ I must go now... cheers

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