Joe Jennings posted an article last week titled Tony and Leon. I can't believe how many of our fans back these two players up ? no matter how shite they are.
I was at Villa Park on Sunday and I must say Tony Hibbert was not only an embarrassment to Everton but also to the Premier League itself. Unlike some, I don't judge Hibbert on the few decent games he has played in the past few weeks but on the amount of terrible performances he has put in over the last four years. If a circus act like Luke Young can tear Tony Hibbert to shreds and leave him in bits, what will the world's number one do to him on that big pitch at Wembley?
Leon Osman... where do we start. Invisible for the entire second half at Villa yet some on here say he played a stormer???? Did okay-ish in the first 45 but that's about it. If you watch the game again, just look at the space Leon leaves down the right flank as he wanders in-field doing fuck all. Hibbert was continually left one-on-one with Young as Osman deserted his duties.
We cannot afford to carry passengers in this Sunday's semi-final and putting Osman and Hibbert in the same team both on the right handside of the pitch is a recipe for disaster. We all know Osman can put in a shift against the likes of Wigan, Sunderland, WBA or Macclesfield but when will he put in a shift against a decent side?
I know I will get slaughterd by those who don't really understand football over these comments but, in my honest opinion, neither Osman or Hibbert deserves a shirt this weekend. Argue all you want about suitable replacements: Gosling, Rodwell, Shandy ? I don't care as I think a Burton's dummy could do a better job that Leon in midfield.
Moyes needs to start getting tough with the slackers and stop this favourites nonesense. If they can't maintain decent levels of form, why should a player be selected week-in, week-out? Doesn't make sense to me...
What ever happens on Sunday, you know the likes of Cahill and Jagielka will be running through walls for the cause and the rest need to follow suit. Those who want to hide can fuck right off this is war.
This is the biggest test to date for Moyes and tough decsions will have to be made. Can DM make such decisions? I am not so sure he can. If he allows players Like Osman to coast through the match, like he did in the derby trilogy, then we will get battered.
Drop Hibbert and drop Osman and we will stand a fighting chance; play both and we are FOOKED!!!
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1 Posted 19/04/2009 at 18:59:28
Oh, and his name is Ashley Young, not Luke Young.
2 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:03:23
Don?t need to slaughter you Tony, you just need to look at the result, admit you were wrong and we?ll move on shall we to save you further embarassment!
To be fair though, it was a smart post from you. You knew Hibbo and Leon would start, so if we had lost, you could have said "I told you so" and look really clever which you like to do... and if we win, you get to dance around like a nutter, well up with pride and sing "We shall not be moved" until you can sing no more! Thankfully, you and all fellow blues will be doing the latter, and doesn?t it feel good?! Enjoy the moment Tony... Enjoy.....
3 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:08:18
Osman, I thought he was pretty decent against Villa, and I think he has stood up to be counted since Arteta?s demise. He?s not a genius, no Deco or Arteta, but I don?t think he?s anywhere near as pathetic as you suggest.
However, I respect you and your views as you undoubtedly are a great Blue travelling to home and away games, and that for me entitles you to be as provacative and as hard biting as you wish.
4 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:17:54
5 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:30:22
6 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:31:00
7 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:31:02
As for Hibbo, that yellow card for nothing killed him against Young, especially given the little cheat was diving every time he got near him.
8 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:37:43
9 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:22:12
But, fair do’s Tony does have a point as neither of those players covered themselves in glory today - though Hibbert was in the right place at the right time on numerous occasions and Osman, though ineffective was out on his feet towards the end of the game... and still he gave everything, and never stopped trying.
The truth is we were shite, rubbish, flat, out of ideas, not making enough passes, incoherent, nervous with and without the ball, not on song, not firing on all cylinders, not good enough....
.... and we won... and we are at Wembley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh fucking yesss!
10 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:33:56
11 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:43:41
Look, we are all fans, and we are all entitled to our different opinions but I just don?t understand the need to insult our own players. Frankly, until Tony apologises for calling our own players "clowns", I will not think of him as a blue. I know he doesn't give a shit if I think he is a blue but there you go.
Ultimately, for me, an essential part of being a blue, is that you always ?support? the blues. This doesn't mean you can't criticise them but insulting them is too far.
Tony. Start acting like the fan that you know you can be and the rest of us deserve. You are an intelligent independent thinking guy. I rarely agree with you but would always be happy to hear your views expressed in the right way.
(I would have posted this regardless of the result today and will probably post it again.)
12 Posted 19/04/2009 at 19:55:42
Tony, there is a Scottish lass that is suddenly famous with her voice but claims to "have never been kissed", perhaps she can cheer you up?
Everton is Team!
13 Posted 19/04/2009 at 20:32:46
But after all the stick Moyes took in the first eight-ten weeks or so of the season ? some of it undoubtedly deserved, considering our performances at the time, but a lot of it frankly gratuitous, spiteful, ill informed and of a personal nature ? it?s lovely to see him get the club to it?s first cup final in fourteen years. I?m really pleased for the man that his hardwork, loyalty and talent over the last seven years has been rewarded.
That goes for all of our players as well, some of whom might not be the most talented in the world, but who almost always give their all. Not least among them Tony Hibbert and Leon Osman, Moyes era regulars, grafters, first class pros, smashing performers on their day, and local lads who were brought through our academy to boot. It doesn?t have to take endless millions.
Well done all at EFC.
14 Posted 19/04/2009 at 20:20:46
Previous posters have claimed on numerous occasions that Ossie has been playing through the pain barrier this season, which quite clearly he is and to berate him whilst in this condition borders on the disgusting. Ossie is one of our most technically gifted footballers and once fit will be an integral part of the team.
As for Hibbert I have gone from being a fan to thinking Moyes vastly overrates him and back to being a fan again. Both of these boys deserve our respect as they would die for the cause (as Ossie looked like he might today) so maybe its time to give the lads a break, they?re not half as bad as many make out.
Any division on the subject aside, let's just say a big thank you to Moyes and the lads and a massive COYB?S.
15 Posted 19/04/2009 at 20:35:14
Today I thought we were poor & heavy. I?d exclude Pienaar & Fellaini (and Rodwell) from that as I thought these boys ran themselves into the ground, but more importantly they wanted to play football. Quite hard when most of the rest of the team insist on wellying it upfield or floating it to your head when you have two defenders in your shorts.
So a poor performance overall for me. We didn?t really turn up. But I also have to agree with Tony on Osman & Hibbert today. Osman in particular was invisible and I nearly fell over when I saw Fellaini?s number come up ahead of Osman. Cahill was also invisible before extra time, which was the biggest surprise.
On to Jack Rodwell. I thought after he settled in he rather bossed our midfield and looked very strong on the ball. Given his freshness and the fact that we?ve now qualified for Europe, perhaps a little run in the side till end of season might be to everyone?s benefit.
And finally to James Vaughan. After what this kid has been through in his short career it was fantastic to see him on the Wembley pitch. That he also took an excellent penalty to boot is just terrific. I expect to see a few of the young boys against Chelski on Wednesday. I really don?t see the point in sending out the first team after the trials of today and a game on Saturday (for a change).
Never for one second thought we?d win a penalty shoot out. On that basis, might risk a dabble on 4th place if Arsenal lose this week & we don?t.
16 Posted 19/04/2009 at 21:08:33
Tony?s post was obviously written expecting a full strength United side so today we were arguably lucky because we played poorly and Osman and Hibbert were shite against average players. Hibbert especially is always too far off his man and lets them get control, turn and run at him... it was Welbeck today, Rooney or Ronaldo and it would have been different.
Anyway we won, we deserve it and I?m sure Tony is celebrating just as much as any other Blue around the world tonight!
17 Posted 19/04/2009 at 21:23:49
18 Posted 19/04/2009 at 21:20:12
I like them both, they give it all, but even when they are playing well their limitations are still too great to seriously expect a challenge to the sky-4 with them starting week-in, week-out.
They’re not as bad as Tony says. But nothing is ever as bad as Tony says. If Tony "knows about football", Moyes would’ve dropped Osman and Hibbert today, without caring about who to replace them with. And we’d have been bottom 3 by xmas.
Hang-on, we’re 6th and in a cup final. Imagine if Tony was in charge... we’d have been top and in the Champion’s League semis.
19 Posted 19/04/2009 at 21:28:14
I probably don?t want Hibbert and Osman in the team any more than you do. I think that their level is average Premier League players at best. Ideally they are only squad players for us. Unfortunately we are not in an ideal situation. We can?t go out and spend hundreds of millions on players. We have to make do the best with what we have got. For Moyes to be getting Everton regularly into the top 6 and now a Cup Final with basically average Premier League players and a consistent relegation fighting team when he took over is a remarkable job.
Give Moyes credit, and give Hibbert and Osman credit for 100% commitment every game. That is what Everton is built on, 100% commitment.
20 Posted 19/04/2009 at 22:06:50
21 Posted 19/04/2009 at 22:29:37
Lol - well after that really good post a week or two back its business as usual from Mr Marsh. Pity he comes up with lines like ’will get slated by people who don’t know anything about football’. How self-serving and arrogant!
Anyway, we’ll have to wait and see if the two shittest players in the universe get chosen by the world’s shittest ever manager to play in the FA Cup final, against Chelsea, after they beat Man Utd, Villa and Liverpool to get there.
What a load of rubbish!
22 Posted 19/04/2009 at 22:27:10
I’m too happy to even care what the negative Tony Marsh has to say tonight.
No doubt he will be on his way back from Wembley on the coach - citing how he is such a true blue because he went the game, but still moaning all the way home ? with no one listening to him due to the singing, chanting and ale swilling that will be taking place on the best bus ride home this evening!
I’m off for another bevy - COYB!
23 Posted 19/04/2009 at 22:26:39
We have players who give 100% without having the class of a Scholes, a Fabregas, or a Ronaldo. We have a manager who gets the best out of them... and we have an arsehole called Tony Marsh..who can't see further than the end of his nose... If he is so knowledgable... then why are we not blessed with his wisdom during good times?.... If he is such a great supporter... then why never a positive word?
Rather, it would seem, a sad, very sad old git, with nothing better to do than come on here and drop his bile where some fool might actually listen... I mean..stating the obvious that we were shit when the season started... OMG... genius!
The fact is we are the most consistent team outside the rich 4; WHY? ? D Moyes... P Neville.... in a nutshell. Leadership, discipline, continuity...
ANYBODY WHO UNDERSTANDS FOOTBALL... (this would exclude the NUFC board, the THFC board and of course Mr T Marsh) would realise this.
TRIPE... again and again. and even any "senbsible" observation is written with so much hatred it detracts from the actual subject. In future, as I will... just ignore him... don't respond... leave him be... don't react. He will then just crawl away... and hopefully disappear up his own hoop.
24 Posted 19/04/2009 at 23:17:15
25 Posted 19/04/2009 at 23:00:24
Hibbert is a bloody good defender who always gives his all. Yes, he got skinned by Ashley Young, but then so have most of the rest of the Premier League?s defenders earlier this season. His distribution and wingback play are still poor to average, but both have improved dramatically this season and ultimately you only have to look at the mess our defence was in when he was injured to see how valuable he is. Defensively we were solid today and Hibbert was part of that defence.
Osman is an enigma certainly. Clearly he lacks enough pace to play the wings or stretch opponents and also he lacks the physical presence to impose in tackles and boss the play. Then again he undeniably has good ball control, can pick a pass and looks to create play and he will keep trying. That in itself can count against him because the problem with ALL flair players/playmakers (including the greats) is that when it goes right they look brilliant, when it doesn?t come off it just looks poor.
I think he also needs players around him on the same passing wavelength for it to work ? when the rest of the midfield have been in the mood and have had some space this year he?s looked as good as everyone, when game?s have been tighter, we?ve been more destructive or lacking a balance he?s looked more isolated. There?s also the injury problems which can?t be ignored.
Today he was pretty average, but no worse than anyone else in the midfield, although it seemed to me that he was dead on his feet later in the game. But then what exactly was the option? Gosling (patchy performances, still learning), Rodwell (best as a defensive midfielder) or Castillo (proven he?s not up to it).
Ultimately if Ossie is a squad player who does a decent creative job only against 10-15 of our Premier League opponents (plus cup opposition at home and in Europe) then that?s good enough for me. If he?s the back-up/rotation option to Arteta and Moutinho next year then what?s the problem?
26 Posted 19/04/2009 at 23:35:07
You are already too good for the Celtic job and I'm completely convinced that one day the general opinion will be that you will be too good for the Utd job, you are destined for total greatness with your current club, Everton Football Club!! God bless you.
27 Posted 19/04/2009 at 23:44:19
Are you never satisfied!!!!!
Let?s hope we ?Turn Up? against Chelsea and give them a game eh!
28 Posted 20/04/2009 at 00:13:29
29 Posted 20/04/2009 at 00:20:49
Says it all really.
How was Hibbert poor today? Was his defending off? Did ManUre score and I missed it? Granted I was watching the match from the side instead of behind the goal but I still recall not many passes getting past Tony.
Osman was out for the count and I was shouting for Moyes to being on Gosling, as Ossie looked knackered, I am glad to say... What the fook do I know, hey?
30 Posted 20/04/2009 at 00:35:41
Tony... Moyes has proven what most of us have known for months, he?s a top manager and is good for Everton Football Club..
31 Posted 20/04/2009 at 01:21:23
How the fuck Moyes doesn?t see it has got me baffled. I know Tony gets fairly negative at times, but for shit sake, how can Moyes not see we get nothing down the right.
Would've liked to have seen Gosling get a crack at some point yesterday as at least he?s got some balls to take players on. Osman and Hibbert put the hard work in but the likes of Malouda et al will tear us apart down this wing if nothing is done about it.
32 Posted 20/04/2009 at 07:10:10
33 Posted 20/04/2009 at 07:53:00
Osman was ok but looked so knackered at the end
34 Posted 20/04/2009 at 08:19:55
We get it: you hate Moyes, Osman and Hibbo.
What will it take Tony for you to be positive about our beloved blues?
Moyes has built a team that works well. Yes ok we could do better but be realistic ? how do you see that happening?? Look at the other candidates for the job, they have all spent fortunes of their club's cash.
No manager including Moyes likes being in a situation that the club is in.
But guess what, Tony, he is dealing with it the best way he can with the average players we have. An FA Cup final and most likely a 5th or 6th place finish is damn good.
Most importantly though... stability in the league.
35 Posted 20/04/2009 at 09:31:39
36 Posted 20/04/2009 at 09:08:06
For me, SUPPORTING the Blues is the greatest love and the greatest cross you will have to bear. I have tried to read TM?s many, many posts with objectivity and against the criteria of "everyone is entitled to their opinions". However, I have often struggled to ever find any sense of his LOVE for the club. His posts are dripping in vitriol and bile about all things connected with the club including its supporters (who apparently according to TM are ignorant).
Is Tony just a very bitter man ? Or being cynical, is he a "Shock Jock" fictitious creation under whose name posts are submitted that are so OTT that they generate far greater comments than anyone else? Because TW is such an excellent site, I would like to think that everyone who posts are genuine fans who are paid up members of the "EFC Band of Brothers".
37 Posted 20/04/2009 at 10:03:50
Don't get me wrong, they both have weaknesses in their game but give me these two in my side everytime before some of the more talented mercenaries out there who don't realise how special it is to play for our great club!!!
38 Posted 20/04/2009 at 10:31:45
I though Hibbert played pretty well, as he has done all season; both his passing and crossing have improved immensely... And a big shout to Neville who I though was our best player (apart from Howard) today.
ps I know Fellaini doesn?t speak much English but someone should really get a dictionary and show him the word ?sprint?... and that goes for most of the team yesterday as well... standing off players and giving them far too much room.
39 Posted 20/04/2009 at 10:44:29
However, ignoring the natural exuberance and euphoria, let's be absolutely clear ? both Hibbert and Osman were poor ? our worst performers on the day. Had United not played a weakened team I reckon Tony today would be saying ?I told you so? because these two make us extremely vulnerable down the right hand side and either Rooney or Ronaldo could have made us pay in spades.
As it is there is not much we can do about it because of lack of options, but you would ask if Osman would be a regular if Arteta was fit ? who would we leave out of midfield? Neville has been a revelation there recently, leading by example and Cahill has also played well in a more conventional midfield role.
Jacobsen must be lousy at training because he rarely gets a call but he?s looked competent when played although no world beater...
So Tony is right but currently we?re stuffed but we do need to change them to step up to a different level. Saha was a waste of space and we should all be hoping that Vaughan gets his full fitness back asap.
40 Posted 20/04/2009 at 11:13:12
He talks absolute shite
Not occasionally - but every single time.
What was your motivation 2 days before an FA Cup semi in blathering on about your 2 pet hates again.
You are an embarassment. The "celebrity" moaner on Toffeeweb
Whether I get edited again because of what I say about you or not I repeat -
You talk shite
41 Posted 20/04/2009 at 11:21:41
We won, I?ll say that again, we won with these "poor" players in the side. As I asked before, explain how Hibbert had a "mare", what specifically did he do so badly?
42 Posted 20/04/2009 at 11:28:26
I can?t get caught up in the euphoria of the cup win knowing we were so poor against United?s second team. I know history will record a famous victory and the details will be lost and I?d much rather be in the cup final than not but I should feel euphoric and I?m not.
Ferguson should be brought up on a disrepute charge for fielding that team in an FA Cup semi-final. It?s all because of that ridiculous cartel that is the Premier League and the Champions League, it seriously needs breaking up. My God, I sound like Tony Marsh, I?ve become such a Cassandra.
43 Posted 20/04/2009 at 11:37:06
I think the point is that TM is making is that Moyes must start to identify those positions that need improving to take Everton to the next level. I think he has already done that and Jacobsen probably would have been first choice RB this season but for his early season injury. However, the other side of the coin is that you do not spend £5m of a precious transfer kitty on a right back when other areas need greater attention.
Moyes knows the limitations of the squad, I’m sure - it’s having sufficient funds to do anything about it.
44 Posted 20/04/2009 at 12:11:49
Need scum bags like you to stay away from Goodison and Wembley ? you don't deserve to be an Evertonian. Try backing our players instead of slating them at any opportunity. Oh and Hibbo an Osman were excellent yesterday.
45 Posted 20/04/2009 at 12:26:04
46 Posted 20/04/2009 at 12:31:10
It?s just unacceptable for people (Tony Marsh) to criticise without understanding that being successful in the modern, Sky era of football is totally dependent on finance. Happily, Everton have bucked this trend and have their best squad since the 80s.
How people can criticise individuals at EFC when the likes of Fabregas, Adebayor et al were all made to look ordinary by a pudding of a pitch is beyond me. It?s time for celebration not recrimination!
Up the toffees!
47 Posted 20/04/2009 at 12:42:36
Right selection, right result.
Lets hope for another good result on Wednesday nights dress rehearsal.
48 Posted 20/04/2009 at 13:01:11
I respect your opinion but after a while it just gets very boring.
49 Posted 20/04/2009 at 13:09:46
I have blown hot and cold over Tony Hibbert for years, I get annoyed with his poor distribution and lack of ability to jump for headers in our penalty box, but recently he did have his first assist for a goal in years and he has been in good defensive form since he came back from injury apart from the last few games. But one thing you cannot call him is a slacker!
I have defended Osman even though I agree he is lightweight on the ball, by highlighting his ball skills and the fact that you never see him strolling around the pitch, he is always running and giving his all. Here is a bit of a lesson to the football sage that calls himself Tony Marsh, running around for 90 minutes is not slacking even if that running is not very fast.
I try to read your articles with a degree of objectivity. I no longer get mad with your constant crying, instead I feel sorry for you. You never ever see anything positive in anything and I wonder what sort of sad little life you have that makes you so negative? You are definitely a 'glass half-empty' sort of person: we win 4-0 and I can almost hear you moan that it should be 6-0. You probably complained that Tim Howard should have caught Ferdinand?s penalty instead of parrying it.
But the worst thing about you, TM, is that you are an arrogant little shit to suggest that other fans with their opinions ?don?t really understand football? if they don?t agree with you.
I don?t know how old you are but you act like a big baby when things don?t go exactly how you want them to and you never show any appreciation for when they do, although to your credit you did post a decent article and positive about your Goodison tour, perhaps the strain of having to write something positive has taken its toll on you and you have expired your whole lifetime?s worth of positivity?
Here is a little bit a challenge for you ? for every four negative things you see in EFC try your best to think of just one positive thing and ensure that you mention it in your next posting. I bet you can?t do it!
50 Posted 20/04/2009 at 13:15:00
Osman and Hibbert played in all the above games. If they are merely passengers, how come some of the best teams in the fucken world can't beat us?
Anyway, it?s not a day to be critical of anything to do with Everton. We have overcome some enormous setbacks this season and we?re still there, I?m worried my chest is going to burst open I feel so much pride...
WE- SHALL- NOT, WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED!!!
51 Posted 20/04/2009 at 14:54:22
And I also know that many moons ago during my amateur playing days at full back, the worst thing you hate is a pacey winger and a lazy midfielder in your team, who can both make you look like a total donkey at any moment. All I can say is Osman is not lazy. And I would also like to say that football is a game of attack and defence. In this modern day, the art of defence is too under-estimated. Again, how many goals in all games have come down our right, and given the posting, what are the figures when Hibbert and Osman are playing? I guarantee DM has these facts over the last 5 years. And they don?t lie.
On to the Cup Final preparations: How much longer/wider is the wembley pitch than Goodison (with exact replica at Finch Farm)? Our players at times didn?t seem to appreciate the extra time that they had on the ball with too many rushed passes being intercepted. (any stats?) Maybe the occassion got to them.
I must admit I wasn?t a fan of Wembley semi finals before yesterday, but I?ve had a change of heart for one simple reason ? our lads have been there now and won and this will give us more of a chance at winning the Cup. We know what it?s like now with the build up, the bigger pitch, the extra split second on the ball, not leaving full-backs exposed, not giving neck passes to "elbows" Felliani, not letting the gap between forwards/centre backs get too big or Lampard will take the piss, keep the ball more, be a bit more patient and confident and don?t give the ball up too cheaply.
Roll on the last league games of the season, and I think a wee flutter on a Champions League spot and FA Cup win may just be on the cards. Wouldn?t you just love it if Tony Hibbert scored a last minute winner from outside the box, set up with a magestic run by Osman to go down in Goodison history. If this happens I would also love to see a photo of Tony Marsh with a big cheesy grin holding the FA Cup with Hibbert and Osman either side of him. If that ever happened, a dedicated Toffeeweb page is an almost certainty. A picture says a thousand words and all that....
52 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:07:45
You sir are arrogant, deluded and have written quite possibly the biggest load of tripe my eyes have ever seen. I?ll be sending you the optician?s bill for damaging them.
53 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:08:17
I know it's not the time to nit pick as we have reached a major final but don't try to tell me I am wrong regarding Hibbert and Osman. We have made it to the FA Cup Final despite these two, not because of them, and I won't let this great achievement yesterday cloud my judgement.
Hindsight is a wonderfull thing and if we had lost on pens yesterday I am pretty sure there would be plenty of finger-pointing today. Anyway, I will be at Stamford Bridge Wednesday night regardless of yesterday result. How many slagging me off will be there???
54 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:13:05
55 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:31:29
56 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:22:16
57 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:30:58
No one gets more frustrated by Osman than me ? or shits himself more when I see the oppositon bearing down on our right back, but you can never doubt their commitment.
Some things can't be put on a balance sheet and these are the things that help create team spirit, which spreads through the team and has been the root cause for all the success we have had.
The isn?t Championship Manager lads. Give them a break.
58 Posted 20/04/2009 at 09:42:12
When Everton are struggling he liked to post every week to remind us how right he was. Now Everton are doing well I'd like to remind him are wrong he is.
COYB!!! Love the site
59 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:37:23
I don?t doubt that your heart's in the right place but with your attitude you?re never really going to enjoy any sort of success with Everton. As Jackie Charlton once said about the 66 winners "we are not the 11 best players in the world but we are a very special team."
I strongly suggest that you do a bit of coaching at a junior level and learn the basics of team building. Boy would that open your eyes. Osman and Hibbert have a role in this team whether you like it or not and there have been occasions when they have more than compensated for other players' shortfalls. For God's sake man on a day like this, give them a break.
60 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:47:19
Your Macclesfield defence is pathetic and I would be embarrased to use that game as a way of defending Osman. I can't be arsed arguing with tossers like you as rose-tinted glasses cover you eyes. If Ronhaldo would've played with Roonay yesterday, do you really think Hibbert and Osman would be drinking champagne in the bath last night?
61 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:23:07
And what's all this about Man U reserves? They played without Rooney, Ronaldo and the Goalie, we had more players missing than they did.
62 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:45:08
63 Posted 20/04/2009 at 16:02:27
Now go jump off Wigan pier!!!
64 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:54:42
As it turned out, Alex Ferguson drooped nearly all the side that played Porto and we got through. It's all well and good Evertonians jumping on their high horses and calling me a tosser but who could've predicted the side Man Utd put out yesterday?
I don't want to go any further with this arguement because the point of the arictle became meaningless once Sir Alex dropped his super stars. Those that can't see this and continue to pillory me are just plain daft.
Let's get one thing straight: I am absolutely overjoyed at the result at Wembley and the way we have turned the season around but we have won nothing yet, so it's a bit to early to start letting off the fireworks and popping corks. If we beat Chelsea then the party can begin and Moyes will be a winner after all.
As for Micheal Kenrick, I am sure you said after the Portsmouth game you where about to boot fuck out of the Telly because of the way Osman performed... What's changed your view mate????A semi-final win glossed over things for you as well???
65 Posted 20/04/2009 at 16:05:48
66 Posted 20/04/2009 at 16:02:06
If you can’t arsed to respond to my posting why did you bother to do so?
You are all mights, ifs and buts.
Let me make this clear for you Rooney and Ronaldo did not play so we cannot possibly hypothesize what the outcome could have been, well we could but it would be like your rants - pointless.
You obviously did not read my posting properly - except what you wanted to read - as there was no hint of rose tinted spectacles, anyway better that than shit tinted ones like you obviously wear.
You should have gone to specsavers.
67 Posted 20/04/2009 at 15:55:09
68 Posted 20/04/2009 at 16:39:18
Shaun, we all knew Atrteta and Yakubu were out, didn't we? In fact we knew his months ago... but we didn't know Rooney, Ronhaldo etc would all miss yesterday game did we? So why play smart arse.
69 Posted 20/04/2009 at 16:40:40
People are going over the top here... Osman is not a very consistent player. Should we ignore this until we lose? Or should something have been done yesterday?
I couldn?t believe that Fellaini was hauled off before him. However, it?s a great day to be an Evertonian... the excuses are flowing in work ? and my sides are splitting.
70 Posted 20/04/2009 at 17:02:05
Pack in with the Man Ure reserve bit or you?ll end up sounding like a Manc or a Kopite.
71 Posted 20/04/2009 at 17:03:28
All people who you’ve recommended in the past and assured us people who don’t have your unique insight and understanding of football, would do a better job
72 Posted 20/04/2009 at 18:12:13
73 Posted 20/04/2009 at 18:14:36
74 Posted 20/04/2009 at 18:36:59
I made what I consider valid points regarding how the match might pan out but all of these fears I had dissapeared as soon as I saw the team sheets. Even so, Osman, who every man and his dog seem to be defending, did nothing yesterday against Man U's second string to make me believe my original statement is flawed.
75 Posted 20/04/2009 at 19:04:19
Tony, I’ve decided to take my head out of my arse long enough to be able to see the keyboard and type
As I stated earlier, my Father supported Everton for a 70 year period from the early 1930’s onwards. We would discuss the merits of players in specific positions from the various decades. For example, how Dean compared to Lawton,Hickson,Royle,Gray etc. I and I’m sure many other blues are FULLY aware of the limitations of Osman and Hibbert. Do they compare favourably with famous Everton right-backs or midfielders of the past - NO. Hibbert is an honest, hard-working "water carrier" and Osman has aspirations to be an "artisan" but frequently flatters to deceive.
However, both players have my respect because they give 100% commitment. As a SUPPORTER of the team they therefore have my SUPPORTt
Your problem is that you’ve been found out. You wanted the post submitted on Wednesday because it would have attracted some debate and then the fervour of the approaching game would have taken over. We win - your post would have been long forgotten and you would have slipped under the radar to join in with the TW celebrations. We lose - you would have said "I TOLD YOU SO" That’s not being a supporter Tony. That’s just being calculating and cynical. But what do I know about football ? Time for my head to go back up my arse.
76 Posted 20/04/2009 at 19:36:15
I?m forever getting told that Hibbert is a great defender, he isn't. He is a very good slide tackler when someone tries to run him on the outside but that's about it for the positives. Terrible passer, positioning, heading, negative, tentative going forward... I could go on and on he was utterly pathetic on Sunday and I cringed when the ball came near him.
Contrast the inept displays of Osman and Hibbert with Baines and Pienaar who were superb.
77 Posted 20/04/2009 at 19:35:46
And on that point, I think you’re generally right about Osman, and generally wrong about Hibbert. Young was the toughest player Hibbert has met this season and I actually thought Tony did pretty good against him. He was stretched, definitely, but he kept at it, he never gave up, despite Young’s less than legal tricks and ploys. But I look on Hibbert as a full back there to defend and for me, he does a really good job at that.
Osman.... I have two memories of him on Sunday ? the fabulous technical footballer who’s magical first touch, vision, ... blah blah blah...
He was all alone, a high ball comes to him, but instead of trapping it and attempting to play football, he does a huge wellied vollied hoofball to nobody (in a blue shirt... somebody in a red shirt of course).
The other occasion was again a high ball that he just watched bounce in front of him. No attempt to trap and control the ball despite him being under no pressure. And of course, he lost possession of it.
I believe I see what you see with him: there are countless other special Ossie moments that frustrate the hell out of me. However, to come out with shite like you did ahead of the game that David Moyes must choose not to play either/both these players was absolute nonsense. If you are watching as many games as you claim, you should at least know by know that, provided they are fit enough to crawl onto the pitch, David Moyes will pick them and play them, without question. To suggest otherwise is simply absurd.
78 Posted 20/04/2009 at 20:19:51
Anyway it's done and dusted now and we are through but the guy above who asked me would I say these things to Osman's face must be having a laugh. What's Ozzie going to do... bite me on the leg??
79 Posted 20/04/2009 at 20:46:19
"Hibbert’s worst game" since he has come back into the team was down to simple reasons, Young is fast and a cheat, the three goals conceeded against Villa had nothing to do with the right side of play and ManUre did not score in over 120 mins of play, so why then Tony is Hibbert being singled out for having a "mare". There are so many posters saying this but have yet to identify any reason why they are stating this.
80 Posted 20/04/2009 at 21:48:04
If there are 3 things that Wembley taught me Yesterday it was that Osman is always shite in the big games, still love Vaughan and finally Evertonians are the world’s greatest fans bar none as was proved by the noise we made in Wembley.
Oh and I almost forgot to say best of all-
EVERTON ARE IN THE FINAL
81 Posted 20/04/2009 at 22:24:52
Moyes wanted a new right back at the beginning of the season and signed Jacobsen. Either because of his injury or because Moyes found out when he had him up close that he wasn’t good enough, Hibbert stayed in the position. Because he’s the best right back we have. Moyes himself surely wants better, but he’s the best we have.
Same with midfield. Moyes went after some big names, but we couldn’t get them. Neville has had to play in midfield because we are short. Gosling and Rodwell look like great prospects, but Moyes is limited for choice and he’s going with Osman. If we had Arteta, would Osman be in the first 11? Who is fit that’s better?
Let’s hope next season we have more options, but don’t kid ourselves that we are going to have lots of cash for the Summer’s transfer window.
82 Posted 20/04/2009 at 23:09:37
83 Posted 20/04/2009 at 23:26:47
84 Posted 21/04/2009 at 01:03:28
Diving to get him booked and then constantly diving in an attempt to get him sent off seemed to be his one and only ploy and it worked to a degree with Moyes making the right decision to substitute him. Hibbert was quite rightly cautious as he knew if he got too close to Young (who is a very quick and skillful player by the way) the prick would cheat and dive again = red card = miss playing at Wembley. What the fuck do you expect?
I know Hibbert has his limitations, but he is a great defender which is his primary job. I don’t recall Ronaldo getting much joy out of him last time they went head to head and in fact when the opposition has a winger of that quality, Hibbert would definately be my first choice. It’s when there’s less attacking quality from the opposition down that side I would be tempted to drop him for a better ball player.
As for Osman, please change the fucking record will you? I can see he’s not the best player in the world, but your attitude towards him stinks and it has made you very very boring of late. Try making a post without referring to him and freshen things up a bit eh?! Cheers!
85 Posted 21/04/2009 at 08:46:24
Young proved once again what a diver he is, not only going down at every opportunity but imploring the ref to take action. Once booked, Hibbert should?ve been brought off as he wasn?t going to risk a mis-timed tackle and therefore a suspension for the Semi-Final was he?
86 Posted 21/04/2009 at 10:51:02
I think TM is talking shite - on this occasion - I?ve even said so, but what the fuck is going on here ?
This guys passionate enough to post on every and anything to do with Everton, no one will agree with him ALL of the time.
I think he?s right far more often than he?s wrong and his articles are hugely entertaining. Argue your point, by all means, but stop the personal abuse of please.
87 Posted 21/04/2009 at 11:02:50
Ferguson’s choice of team on Sunday was clever to say the least.
How many of us expected Everton to batter Man Utd when they learned about the team sheet?
I did, and I’ll bet a few others did too.
Reaction: why aren’t we scoring yet against their "alternative" team ?
It isn’t that easy whacking a lesser-rated team, so in a way, we were on a hiding to nothing.Tranmere, Oldham ,Arsenal’s youngsters anyone?
Tony said in his article Hibbert and Osman don’t play well against the top 4. but then it wasn’t really a top 4 last Sunday, so on this occasion, I think they were caught napping by the Utd selection as other team members were.
I think most of us were a bit let down by the blues performance as a whole
but then we won, in spite of Ferguson picking the most experienced players to take Utd’s penalties. Maybe, Sir Alex was hoping for extra time all along.....
Well, I’m glad it backfired and that Hibbert and Osman could celebrate
at the end with their first-team mates.
After all, they worked hard enough and Man U didn’t score in open play
Ok, so they didn’t haveone of their best games in a blues shirt but a few others didn’t either......
88 Posted 21/04/2009 at 14:20:01
No, he would laugh in your face, turn his back on you and rejoin his beloved Everton, leaving you out in the cold, mumbling to yourself which is what I think we should all now do...
Everton into the FA Cup Final: HAPPY DAYS!!!
89 Posted 21/04/2009 at 16:31:41
90 Posted 21/04/2009 at 18:45:09
I don't agree with Tony over Hibbert, I do agree with him over Osman who delivered the type of performance I expected from him in a big game. No decent shots, no decent passes. No crosses. People will no doubt point to the fact that he ran about a lot and put the effort in but as 1 of our 2 supposedly most creative players he once again failed to deliver any creativity. Keep saying what ever you like, Tony, it's a free country we all get it wrong at times, The Editors of ToffeeWeb do it a lot.
91 Posted 21/04/2009 at 19:54:51
Give it a rest or at least change the record. You used to be very entertaining but these days you are just boring.
The very idea of leaving Osman and Hibbert out at present is a joke. Who would you play instead. Gosling and Jacobsen? Give me a break!
To be honest, Tony I (and many others I suspect) cannot take you seriously after you have spent the last 5 years slagging off Moyes at every opportunity. You must surely now recognise that David Moyes is the single best thing to have happened to Everton in the last 20 years?
92 Posted 21/04/2009 at 21:01:20
I really did have my doubts before Sunday but, as I have already said in the comments which you appear not to have read, once I knew the teams I wasn't as concerned.
What I don't understand is the mentality of some Everton supporters who think this is as good as we can possibly be... IT'S NOT.
There is always room for improvement and WE are no different. Players come and go for one reason or another and if you and others think Osman and Hibbert are the best two right sided players we can get then you are deluded beyond belief.
I don't rate either of them; you do and that's that... but if the shoot-out had of gone the other way on Sunday then you and many others would not be so cocky with your comments.
93 Posted 21/04/2009 at 22:47:48
I agree with you that Osman and Hibbert could be improved upon but i see no improvements within the present squad. Hence a post attacking said players on the eve of a cup semi being somewhat futile.
I realise we have won nothing yet and i suspect that will remain the case after May 30th. We are heading in the right direction however and for my money you owe David Moyes a huge apology for the shit you have written about him on these pages over the years.
94 Posted 22/04/2009 at 05:31:59
We are far from the finished article, yes much improvement is needed for us to become a great side again.
But collectively we are moving in the right direction.
Can you not see that Moyes is a good manager ? Can you not admit what he has achieved this season ?
Things are stirring up niceley down Goodison Road..
What would you of said about the 84/85 team.. ? The league was shit ? John Bailey should be in the 2nd division ? Alan Harper shouldnt be in a blue shirt ??
When will you ever be happy ?
95 Posted 22/04/2009 at 12:50:11
I fully agree with you Moyes, Osman and Hibbert not fit to manage or wear the shirt.
If these daft bastards had not tried to so hard on Sunday the likes of you and me could of been celebrating now the fact that Utd would be in the final and we could get more money from them from the Rooney payment plan.
For christ sake Kenwright please do Tony and me a favour and sell out to Mike Ashley now, as Tony says 24/7 my arse.
Tony if you give me your mobile number I will pass it on to Gordon Brown and you can no doubt get the country out of this credit crunch mess, as I sure your knowledge with politics is superior to the vast majority of the people as well as football.
Finally Tony, yes I am taking the piss. Everybody else will get it but I am not sure about you, you will probably think ’at last someone with the same intelligence level as me’
96 Posted 23/04/2009 at 13:21:16
All of the above comments are directed at you and those who agree with you. This is up there with a post you wrote some time last season when you said that you didn?t want us to qualify for the Uefa Cup again. Why a fan would want their club to deprive them of qualifying for Europe thus having great trips abroad and memorable midweek nights at Goodison is beyond me and just about sums you up. Anyway, that?s beside the point of my response.
I think a lot of what has been said already in this thread says a lot more about who knows a bit about football and who doesn?t. We fans all have our opinions but let?s be honest, a good 75% of yours aren?t just wrong, they?re just laughable. You do serve a purpose though, I?ll give you that, every forum needs a clueless pantomime villain and you fit the bill just perfectly and fair play, you always prompt a response which is what it is all about.
Believe it or not a certain Mr David Moyes knows a thing or two about football, a lot more than me and a without doubt a lot more than you. That?s all that matters!!!
He knows that these two players are good players and that?s why he plays them every week... Simple, simple, simple. You call them favourites, you are right!!! What you need to ask yourself is why they are favourites, maybe it?s because they give everything and do everything that their manager asks of them which is what every manager in any organisation wants from his staff. Just a thought!!!
Is it any coincidence that Everton stopped shipping goals when Hibbert came back into team or is it purely all down to the other three of our much envied back line? Does he really contribute as little as you say?
Is it any coincidence that Hibbo has looked a much better player after coming back from injury earlier in the season and finding Osman in front of him every week rather than Arteta?
Maybe Ossie offers more protection than Arteta did? I couldn?t tell you the answers to some of the questions because I?m happy to admit that I don?t know enough about organising a Premier League defence against some of the best players in the world week-in, week-out!!! Neither do you, someone who does is... yep you guessed it, our manager. There is no doubt that Ashley young got the better of him last week, you saw it, I saw it, we all saw it but guess who else recognised it by replacing him? You know the answer don?t you......
Tony Hibbert is a good defender, he?s not crap, he?s not brilliant but he does his job and more often than not he does it well. This is not only my opinion but the proof is there in his appearance record for Everton. Nobody plays that many games in what is regarded as the best league in the world if they are as bad as you say. Fact!!!(sorry for the Benitez like statement there).
Onto Ossie, if you really did know anything about football like you clearly think you do whilst also suggesting some don?t, you wouldn?t come out with such ridiculous comments. Leon Osman scores a few goals consistently every season, he gets at least 5 assists. That?s quite a few contributions to actually sticking the ball in the net which is the object of the game, it seems to pass you by a lot of the time. Again, these are not only my opinions but facts. Do you know how he scores and how he gets his assists? It?s because he?s a good little footballer, again not brilliant but a good player and a very important player in our team, certainly no clown. He plays pretty much every minute of every game, he never shirks a tackle, he?s brave and he runs his bollocks off. Yes, he gets knocked off the ball, yes he scuffs some of his shots but he always finds space for himself, he creates space for others, has a good football brain, good touch and ability and he seems to be loved by not only his manager but also by his team mates too. Again that?s more than enough for me.
If you can?t see any ability in him fair enough, it?s your opinion but again you?re wrong! Anyone who rates Osman knows he has his faults but for you not to see any good in the little fella tells me a lot about your opinion on football rather than those you say don?t have a clue.
Some people ask the question of why he goes missing against the better sides and why he only looks good against a Wigan or a Macclesfield. The answer is pretty straight forward as far as I?m concerned and lies within the question, we are playing better sides!! Of course he?s not as effective against better teams, they are better with better players.
Our approach to playing the Top sides is generally more defensive. Our stand-out performers against these sides are invariably our defensive players just like yesterday and in the semi final. You always notice these players a lot more than the Ossies and the Pienaars out wide running their hearts out all across the first defensive line because they?re generally shutting down space rather than winning headers and blocking shots.
To me, like all good teams our side is all about getting the balance right. These two provide a steady effective balance on the right hand side, not very exciting I know but certainly effective. There is no doubt that our left hand side is better and surprise surprise, we tend to play to our strengths and attack more down the left than we do the right. Maybe our manager actually knows what he?s doing and instructs the team to play this way.
Yes we?d all love to have a pacy right winger with all the tricks and an amazing overlapping right back flying forward at every opportunity but we haven?t ? they cost rather a lot of money that we haven?t got, we?ve got two good players who provide balance to our team and guess what, it seems to be working.
People in the professional game that really do have the knowledge we don?t constantly recognise and sing Evertons praises for their organisation and work ethic. I put it to you that these two are at the forefront of this massive factor in our team and I for one certainly acknowledge and applaud them for it. Every team has their unsung players with their main attribute being work rate and discipline!!
You go on to point out all the changes to Uniteds team in the semi as the only reason we didn?t lose. Behave yourself!! Your arguments are pathetic, you can only beat what is put in front of you. We got through and your two favourite players played a massive part in that as they have done in all we?ve done over the last few years. There is no denying it however strong your opinions towards these two.
Tony Marsh, do me a favour!! I?d have more respect for the footballing opinion of Jodie Marsh.
97 Posted 23/04/2009 at 10:34:33