The Board have decided to allocate half of the lower tier in the End Stand (South) to the away fans. When Everton attack the End that their fans are in, there is always an increase in atmosphere from those fans, an increase that is not reached by the fans in the side stands. The fans in the side stands generally feed off the atmosphere created by those in the End Stands.
Therefore, by positioning the away fans behind the goal you are losing a large part of that increase in atmosphere when the team attack the home End. Due to more extrovert nature of away fans, they will just engulf the home support in that End.
Take the Semi-Final, for example: it took not only the biggest match in 14 years to get the atmosphere but also the team to attack the Everton End to get atmosphere going. So, if Man U fans took up half of the lower Everton End, we would not have generated the same atmosphere with the Everton fans moved to the side.
It is the big games and when it matters, which is when the Park End really comes out of their self-conscious shell, that we truly see the benefit at home by having full home support behind both goals. So, during these moments, did Everton look at the End Stands and think that the atmosphere would improve if we removed 3,000 Everton fans from the Park End or Gwladys Street and swapped them with the away fans? It is the End Stands where the most noise is generated.
Take Liverpool, for example: they have away fans in half the lower Anfield Road, the Park End's support is better than the home support given by the home fans in the Road End by a mile ? during big games by 4 miles!
Talking of big games, when allocations are greater the away fans will presumably take up half the End Stand not just half the lower. Imagine Goodison if the away fans took up the entire lower Gwladys Street or half the Park End in a huge match for Everton?
Little decisions like this matter,and it is worrying they can't even get those things right. I offer Everton a lifeline though, and it is very easy to rectify. Everyone makes oversights, it is how they deal with them that ultimately matters.
So will the board representative be the bigger man and demand the change, or will they keep those shutters down over all things Kirkby related?
If they do not make the change then they believe that it is beneficial to have away fans behind the goal, I therefore expect to see away fans taking up half the Lower Gwladys St next season. It's one or the other, Everton!!!
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1 Posted 08/06/2009 at 14:16:32
2 Posted 08/06/2009 at 14:29:41
3 Posted 08/06/2009 at 14:55:56
Playing devils advocate it could be said that the louder the away contingent is the more reason the home support has to raise their game - so putting the away fans behind the goal might even help.
Talking of "ground share" I heard it raise its ugly head on Sky Sports News about a hour ago. Let the merry-go-round begin again....
4 Posted 08/06/2009 at 14:35:28
Personally speaking I’d rather (somehow) redevelop Goodison so that we continue to have that connection with our history, but if we can’t do that then someone just make a bleedin decision and give us a new ground !!!
5 Posted 08/06/2009 at 15:15:54
We can?t always choose our timing.
6 Posted 08/06/2009 at 15:20:28
The reference to away fans in the Gwladys St....exactly the response I want, so why should we have them behind the goal at Kirkby?
7 Posted 08/06/2009 at 15:41:08
8 Posted 08/06/2009 at 15:59:03
9 Posted 08/06/2009 at 16:07:53
10 Posted 08/06/2009 at 16:42:08
These days the match day atmosphere mostly is crap but on TV, due to the position of microphones pitchside, it sounds to viewers as if even the cockernees are outshouting us!
Home and Away ends should be brought back.
11 Posted 08/06/2009 at 16:53:08
We can micro manage the seat allocation and whose arse goes where once we actually have something to manage! Just give us a new bleedin ground or redevelop the Old Lady then we can talk detail !
12 Posted 08/06/2009 at 17:40:31
What worries me is having away fans sitting directly below Evertonians. This encourages violence and will end up in that section being fenced off for "high threat" matches such as the derby games, thus reducing our capacity for the bigget games of the season and reducing the atmosphere in those matches.
I think it is a stupid idea and they should be given a quarter of both tiers, like Tottenham’s away section. That is always a good away day.
13 Posted 08/06/2009 at 18:43:30
14 Posted 08/06/2009 at 19:16:53
Mathew Mackey - the way atmosphere works means that it is important where the seats are and how they are allocated is very important.
When Everton attack an Everton End that lifts the atmosphere in that End. You remove a whole number of Evertonians from that End and you lose a whole lot of that increase in atmosphere.
Fans in the side stands feed off the atmosphere from fans behind the goal. The increase in atmosphere from fans in the side stand is fairly constant wherever the play is. So the allocation of seats is very important.
While normally you would expect it to be something that should be dealt with when we move unfortunately the South Stand consists of boxes half containing boxes for away fans and half offices. If away fans were removed from the South End Stands then there is a good chance that the boxes could be removed altogether from one End Stand, thus improving the atmosphere tenfold.
So yes it is a matter that is important now if a move does take place.
(ps CP hope you got my message I?ll be phoning my mate later!! Cheers!)
15 Posted 09/06/2009 at 08:22:31
Also, ever thought that one reason why the away end rarely fills is cos of how shit the view is from there - if behind the goal, more seats sold to away fans = more money for Everton. So from a business point of view, good decision.
Tony - assuming you’re another one who will spit his dummy out if we move then?
16 Posted 09/06/2009 at 09:25:15
Your argument that we?re putting the away fans behind the goal to give them a better view than Evertonians is surprising as we?ll then have fans in their ritghtful position in the Side corner.
17 Posted 09/06/2009 at 09:16:01
There are so many bad things about Kirkby’s design and this is just one of them.
If you look carefully you will see there is a large space between the goals and the fans, similar to the Reebok for example. It is pretty much a given that having the fans close to the players affects them and yet Blue Bill when he ’ spent hours driving them mad making little alterations’ ( his words ) forgot about that.
As an example, currently Goodison has a much smaller space between fans and players at the Street End compared to the Park End where you could park a bus between the nets and the fans. And gues which end gives the best atmosphere?
Some bright spark will trot out an excuse about modern building regulations and sight lines, but that’s just an excuse as you only have to look at Old Trafford, the Kop or the Matthew Harding stand at Chelsea to see modern stands just a few feet from the pitch.
Of course, Kirkby is just one big excuse in itself. An excuse for years of complacent neglect of Goodison by successive Boards who thought that running a Pools or Hamper Company or putting on Blood Brothers meant they were beyond criticism. 30 years ago, Goodison was amongst the finest stadia in the UK, but bar the cheap Meccano Park End ( Kirkby will be similar build quality ) and a new Street End roof, not a lot else has happened bar the seats being bolted onto the terraces. Compare that to Villa Park - totally rebuilt since 1975 - or St James Park - rebuilt one and a half times since 1992 - if you want an example of what could have been done ( AND COULD STILL BE DONE! ) without Chamions League money.
Hopefully, Derek, it will never be built and your fears will never be realised!
18 Posted 09/06/2009 at 09:44:32
End Stand (South) FFS
I’m dreading the Checkout End
19 Posted 09/06/2009 at 09:47:51
Anyway that outburst was planned for another topic I was going to do. As you say there are loads of things wrong with the stadium. There are worse things about the design than my main point, so much so that I can’t do them all on one post, however it all links in to each other.
Sightlines are always their excuse, but for me these steep stands with the seats spread out from each other are one of the reasons why these new builds are so soulles. The Gwladys St is shallower and more compact, the [Park End is steeper and less compact, however that is nothing compared to Kirkby. Fans are so spread out and the stands are close to the Top Balcony is steepness, it could not be worse!! We could do a book on the faults of Kirkby couldn’t we eh! and that’s not including the location argument.
Also, I hope you’re right that it doesn’t come off, but we do need a plan b in case this thing actually does come off, and that is to turn the Shed into a garage, anything we can to improve it!!
If the stadium does get knocked on the head then our efforts will still not be wasted as they’ll know what is acceptable for a stadium and what isn’t.
20 Posted 09/06/2009 at 10:01:54
As for the away fans, keep them on the side of the ground, our fans will create more atmosphere and noise from behind the goal. The first thing Martin O?Neil did at Aston Villa was move the away fans from the goal to the side which created more noise from the home fans to support their team.
Phil, love the name for our end of the ground, The Checkout End says it all about Kirkby!
21 Posted 09/06/2009 at 11:33:40
22 Posted 09/06/2009 at 12:46:20
23 Posted 09/06/2009 at 12:51:20
Makes me seriously wonder if they care what the stadiums like. I mean it’s hardly a hard change to make is it, and they won’t even do that!
24 Posted 09/06/2009 at 13:41:46
There are so many things wrong with Desperation Kirkby, let’s just hope that Hazel Blears’ replacement takes more time to study the plans than either Kenwright took to tweak the plans or that fat shit Wyness took to explore the alternatives.
25 Posted 09/06/2009 at 13:41:16
That ship sailed the moment we got into bed and decided to come over all monogamous with Tesco.
26 Posted 09/06/2009 at 14:25:12
27 Posted 09/06/2009 at 19:31:12
you are not related to the ever irritating and blinkered ’All Things About Kirkby are Wonderful’ Gerard Madden are you?!
28 Posted 09/06/2009 at 19:41:07
In answer to your question regarding spitting dummies out, I have no intention of following our great club to Kirkby. I think it is a disgrace that one man, Phillip Green, is using our great club to strengthen his business empire.
I just feel so sorry for you guillible Evertonians who believe the lies out of Bill Kenwright?s mouth. I don't have to publish the list of his lies, as they have been well documented on this website.
29 Posted 09/06/2009 at 23:30:02
It will be called the blue stadium as all you will see on match days is empty blue seats.
Before you ask will I be spitting my dummy out as well, I already have. This season could be my last season ticket if Kirkby gets the nod. You should be more worried about the loss of thousands of hardcore supporters then giving away fans seats behind the goal.
30 Posted 10/06/2009 at 00:49:21
31 Posted 10/06/2009 at 09:28:47
The post highlights the complete lack of thought that?s gone into the project. I mean this is basic stuff that Everton have got wrong! And yet Everton can?t even be bothered to fix it even though it?s dead easy to fix.
So not only does it show that Everton have not put even the most basic of thought into this but they couldn?t care less about whether the stadium is any good. They can?t even fix the basic and easy stuff! What does that tell you about the cretins at Everton? So there is a bigger picture here.
32 Posted 10/06/2009 at 22:31:01
When I read posts from people trying to justify Kirkby (because we can’t afford anything else,ie the Neil Pearses of the world) or wondering what colour the toilets are going to be, it sends a shiver down my spine.
33 Posted 11/06/2009 at 17:20:16
34 Posted 11/06/2009 at 18:24:53
Clearly there is an intelligent gene pool in your Branch of the Madden clan. :)
People like Gerard Madden blindly accept the pronouncements of the Club. Loyalty is one thing, but not engaging your brain and applying a bit of common sense is quite another.
Emperor?s New Clothes and all that.
35 Posted 12/06/2009 at 19:42:47