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When a Few Good Men Do Nothing

By Dave Wilson :  21/07/2008 :  Comments (109) :

If recent articles are to be believed, it seems Destination Kirkby is looking more a likelihood than a possibility. For many of us the nightmare may be about to become a reality, but what would happen if our worst fears are confirmed?

The custodians have been handed their get-out-of-jail card ? they will always claim, "it's what you voted for".

Tesco wont say anything at all, they`ll be far too busy steamrolling the objections of they`re next "prey"

The yes voter will tell himself, "we were dying anyway, at least we tried." He did what he believed was right and will always be able to look himself in the mirror.

The abstainer will tell you he was never happy with DK but couldn't vote against it. However, he didn't vote yes, therefore he cannot be blamed. He`ll probably find himself a new fence to sit on.

That leaves the no voter. He`ll always be convinced his view was held by the majority. He`ll growl, "you killed my club". He`ll observe with a seething resentment as this once great club dies a slow undignified death. His claims that he, "knew all along this would happen," will provide him with no comfort at all. He`ll be haunted.

He`ll be haunted because he`ll know he could have done more. He`ll be haunted because all he ever did was to bitch amongst his mates in the ale house or on forums like this rather than do something about it.

He`ll be haunted by his own apathy.

Guys, the clock is ticking. If we're to fight this, we need to match the board's determination. It's time to put up or shut up. We need to stop claiming we are the majority, now is the time to prove it.

The fans who claimed the vote was unfair, time to prove it.

The diehards who claimed they were robbed of a no vote because they couldnt afford a season ticket, you too, guys. Time to prove it.

KEIOC, how determined are you? Can you match the Tesco resolve? Time to prove it

Despite what the spin merchants would have you believe, we are the paying customer, the club cannot survive without us. We therefore have the whip hand. Several options are open to us, from minor protests, to the more serious collective withdrawal of our support. Initially, I would favor a show of strength.

A guy recently called for everyone to wear red at Goodison for the Blackburn game. Predictably this wasn't the most popular suggestion but what if we were to wear white? Everyone's got a white shirt or tee shirt, or knows somebody who`ll lend them one for 90 minutes.

If the overwhelming majority really are against moving to kirkby, then Goodison would look like it was hosting a bloody England game. This would have several repercussions, the "get over it" crowd would be silenced, but far more importantly, the wearing of white would be a protest against all the misleading information we were fed in the build up to the ballot.
The custodians would no longer be able to hide behind their "mandate".

Needless to say, any protest would have to be peaceful. Anything other than a peaceful protest would merely draw adverse publicity. There should be no comment/abuse/critcism of anyone who chooses not to wear white ? we are all Blues. Likewise, the people who choose not to wear white would be expected to not comment/abuse or criticise anyone who does.

I don't claim this to be the perfect idea, or original, I`d be more than happy to support a better one. Apathy has brought us to the place we are at now. People who bury their heads in the sand long enough, usually find someone will take liberties and boot them up the arse. If we can show the club we are the overwhelming majority, we are in a strong position to take the next step, if neccesary.

I can already hear the howls from the Yes camp, but I would ask all no voters to count the number of times they've taunted you with, "if people feel as strongly as that, where's the protest?"

One more point: this could backfire, the white shirts may be the ones that are out-numbered, but at least you would have had your opportunity.

Reader Comments

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John Sreet
1   Posted 22/07/2008 at 06:09:46

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I think it?s a great idea..... once and for ever the no voters can voice their collective anger at DK, and we?ll all know what the majority want.
Ian Macdonald
2   Posted 22/07/2008 at 07:28:27

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Apathy is our emeny, mate. I could do no more. At the time of the vote I had my mates down from Glasgow; they saw me trying to rally the troops and thought it a disgrace that our fans were letting this disastor happen. They commented if this were Rangers or Celtic then there would be five thousand outside the directors box to try and storm in. Sadly our fans are apathetic or just don?t care enough.

Another possibilty I think is that many fans think that as usual our club will falter when "show us the money" came to the fore. We have called an EGM now so let's see what the Board have to say about why our fans were misled so much to the reality of it all now. Tesco, Knowsley and Everton knew from the start the real figures, type of stadium and transport nightmare PLUS Sainsbury's approached Everton about Walton Park before the vote !

I could go on but we will deserve the future that beckons. Why? Because we were apahetic in the main at the time of the vote. We don?t like doing our dirty washing in public but these ?custodians? are taking us to the clkeaners. It's just so sad. We were easily duped.

Michael Tracey
3   Posted 22/07/2008 at 08:01:39

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Yeah too little too late! We probably had a number of chances to do a protest last year and no one could be bothered! Still keeping my fingers crossed that this joke gets called in but I doubt it! Ian Macdonald is right ? other clubs' fans would've gone mental. Or maybe the majority really do believe Kirkby is the way to go!

Anyhow, I guess we will just have to wait and see.
Ste Kenny
4   Posted 22/07/2008 at 08:22:44

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What game?
Chris Halliday
5   Posted 22/07/2008 at 08:54:06

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Daily Post have reported today that the decision on DK has been delayed by up to 7 days. So the agony goes on!!!
Lori Fekete
6   Posted 22/07/2008 at 08:49:23

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Couldn?t agree more.

i?ve been sayng for ages that if we?re really the majority we need to show it!

What game? Blackburn?

Also will KEIOC be willing to hand out tee-shirts to those that didn?t hear about it?
Mick Fleming
7   Posted 22/07/2008 at 08:33:16

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Our fans are split and we are a bloody laughing stock. The incompetent idiots on our board must be loving this because we have been shite commercially for a long time now and I feel that they are using this as an excuse to say that the move would bring investment etc. Have they done this on purpose in order to win the vote?

When I approach GP along Goodison Road it looks shabby and run down, have they done this on purpose in order to win the vote? BK states that no one would invest in us now because we have two teams in the city, oh and Manchester, Birmingham and London don?t, has he said this on purpose in order to win the vote? Let?s say I am a tourist coming into Liverpool, all I see is RS with no mention of us, look at all of the Capital of Culture paraphernalia. Surely Everton wouldn?t allow this, or have they allowed this to happen on purpose in order to win the vote?

Lies, lies, lies.

I have just dropped my son off at work in Knowsley and the local pub is advertising Liverpool’s match tonight, don?t Everton play PNE tonight? The JJB store has banners of the new Liverpool home and away strips and the store is crammed with red merchandise at the entrance with the Everton merchandise shoved away in the far corner, haven?t we launched (LOL) our new strip or is our website lying?

Do you really think things will get better if we move?

Let?s change our motto: Ave Everton! Morituri te salutamus - Hail Everton! We who are about to die salute you.

Wear white and show the board that we think they are shite!!
Mick Fleming
8   Posted 22/07/2008 at 09:40:43

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Idea for white t-shirt

A big - Liverpool FC Capital of Culture 08 - on the back and with a big X through it. Do it in red so controversial

Ave Everton! Morituri te salutamus across the front, shows culture i.e. Latin.

Good publicity in this one me thinks, just need a few bob to sort them.
Gavin Ramejkis
9   Posted 22/07/2008 at 10:50:03

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It’s been said before we need intelligent heads to organise this, media savvy people not just the KEIOC guys who are at the end of the day just concerned fans like us, we still have a few weeks before the season kicks off lets do it for the Blackburn game and why not keep it up, protests for every single game. From experience in the Park End after our Newcastle game the stewards have been told in no uncertain terms to remove any protest banners but t shirts and enough banners would be a task even beyond them if they appeared all over the ground, the kudos of this appearing on TV would also add weight to the growing discontent. Rise up and be heard whilst you still have the chance - I’m all for the white t shirts.
Alan Ross
10   Posted 22/07/2008 at 10:45:07

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Great idea Dave. And if not already done so sign the government petition at url http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/evertoncallin
ITS NEVER TOO LATE
EJ Ruane
11   Posted 22/07/2008 at 11:08:31

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Well Done Dave.

A good simple idea and one that doesn’t mean ’too much’ effort or disrupting games etc (I know someone else had a similar idea, but white instead of red makes this one a goer).

You’re right, the time has come to do something other than just argue the toss here (although I will continue to do that!)

Gareth Humphreys
12   Posted 22/07/2008 at 11:55:58

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I agree - for what its worth though what about black to signify a black time in the clubs history ??????
Gary Roberts
13   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:17:34

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LET'S PROTEST AT PRESTON TONIGHT!
Dean Williamson
14   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:19:08

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Yeah, I thought black may be more suitable. Still a great idea!
Colin Jones
15   Posted 22/07/2008 at 11:54:05

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This is a good idea. Dave and Ian are dead right of course about the apathy ? we have got to do SOMETHING!

One problem is getting the message across to those who don?t use the internet. There will be many who would support the idea but turn up wearing blue as normal because they didn?t know about it. Obviously, providing white shirts to these people is a non starter so what about having coloured cards to hold up at 3pm or 2.55pm? These could be handed out outside the ground.

Maybe not white though as that could be seen as a surrender to the idea. I would go for red to signify stopping the move but some would object to this. Maybe bright yellow as in showing the DK idea the yellow card?

I suggest this protest takes place whether it is called in or not - if DK is still on the agenda it goes ahead!

Come on - rise up!
Dean Williamson
16   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:23:09

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How much does it cost to take out a full page ad in the Echo to let the other fans know about this?

I’d be willing to contribute £20-30 if someone knows how to set it up?
Jay Harris
17   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:21:22

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Does anybody have contacts in the media i.e, the Echo or Sky so this action can be highlighted.
Steve Walmsley
18   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:24:15

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When someone can offer a viable alternative to Kirkby I?ll listen, until then there is only one option unless you want to stay with the dinosaurs at Goodison ? they eventually went extinct by the way!!
Colin Jones
19   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:27:38

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Dean, I am not sure that they would carry an advert like this with their close/cosy relationship with the club but donations can be made to KEIOC via PayPal or bank transfer to help get this protest off the ground.

See http://www.keioc.net/index.php?page=donations for more information.

By the way, I am not involved with KEIOC but I do support them in their goal.
Lee Spargo
20   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:35:25

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You assume too much...
Dominic Diamond
21   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:33:19

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Echo run adverts for "massage parlours" and "Escort" agencies.

Surely a public notice should be acceptable?

I know current rates for a quarter page on the right hand side is currently £350 plus VAT where I work.

Full pages are upto and over a grand depending on colour/night etc.

Anthony Newell
22   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:37:04

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Dean W, with excerpts like the following in the Echo I doubt the ad would ever see the light of day:

"If the Government do call it in, the planning process could be extended by more than a year and kill off the £400million project."

"Such a situation would severely damage Everton?s dreams of moving the club forward to be able to compete with the big four of English football"

The latter paragraph demonstrating that the Echo clearly have a pro-Kirkby viewpoint

I?m afraid, the only way to really drive the message home is through non attendance of the first game. T-shirts is all well and good but I doubt the current board would take a blind bit of notice.
Tom Hughes
23   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:39:34

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Start a chant tonight where you can all sit together and make yourselves heard. It will soon catch on, by the time Blackburn come to town, it will be well rehearsed! Hopefully, we won?t have reason to sing it by then!!!
Colin Jones
24   Posted 22/07/2008 at 12:41:07

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I am sure there was a problem in the past with them refusing to publish something like this. Maybe others can remember the details.

Oh, and those massage parlours and escort agencies aren?t clients of Trinity Newspapers like Everton FC are they? Who publishes the programmes and the Evertonian again?
Phil Bellis
25   Posted 22/07/2008 at 13:08:47

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I thought Paul T on another thread had a good idea; wear a hard hat to protect yourself from falling Goodison, saying ’show Wyness your helmet’
A cracking idea - ’Wave your helmet at Wyness’
Now, where does the young ’un keep his Bob the Builder outfit?
Lori Fekete
26   Posted 22/07/2008 at 13:05:27

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Anthony Newell.
I think the T-shirt idea is more attainable than non-attendance, especially with us all being starved of footy this summer.
I agree the Echo wouldn?t probably run it anyway. I too thought those comments highlighted seemed very biased when I read them.

The more I hear the more it seems like the ballot was run like a Zimbabwian election. Be careful wearing the t-shirts near the ground we might get beaten with sticks!!
Colin Jones
27   Posted 22/07/2008 at 13:19:12

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Phil, I like the idea but if we are serious, we need something that is highly visible AND easy to pull off without costing a fortune.

Not everyone will have access to a hard hat and it will cost a lot to provde them. Also, the stewards would be instructed not to let them into the ground in case they are used as weapons/missiles.
Steve Templeton
28   Posted 22/07/2008 at 13:38:22

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Dave,
Quick question for you, what will the ’no’ voter think if the club actually thrives after a move to Kirkby?

Just asking like.
Jip Foster
29   Posted 22/07/2008 at 13:34:04

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The white t-shirt is a simple and cheap idea - and could be very effective. There should be enough time to spread the word at before the first game on the 16th August.
What about a Facebook group - kids can then tell their parents about it. Or a dedicated website so people can find out more about it?
Something as simple as talking about it down the pub, or at the friendly matches - we are scousers after all - the friendliest bunch of people on earth so it shouldn’t be too hard to spread the word.
Iain Latchford
30   Posted 22/07/2008 at 14:36:10

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Looks like we’re going to have to wait until next week for the decision according to the Daily Post.

There has been another "delay".

Good news ? Bad news ? Who knows !!??
Anthony Newell
31   Posted 22/07/2008 at 14:28:15

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Take your point Lori, but the only way to make the current shower sit up and listen is to hit them where it hurts - a kind of ’have a glimpse of what the future will be like in Kirkby’. It’s obvious that the club will lose walk up support by moving and many have said they would stop going. Filling a 55000 seater stadium is therefore unrealistic and any projections based on such are built on sand. I guess what I’m suggesting is for fans to assume the next home game is as we’ve moved and to base their decision on attending as if it involves going to Kirkby (assume you’ll have to walk 90 minutes to the ground etc etc) I know it hurts not watching a footy game but I feel the long term implications require protest that’s likely to go noticed. I don’t hold out much hope of this happening given there seems to be a split on this
Dean Williamson
32   Posted 22/07/2008 at 14:37:08

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A Facebook group is a great idea.

I think the tee-shirt idea is good. (Still think black over white though)
Gareth Humphreys
33   Posted 22/07/2008 at 14:41:27

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OK Folks. I?ve set up a facebook profile called Keep Everton Alive. Anyone interested in a meaningful protest then add it as a friend and we can hopefully spread the word that way.
Let's have a good think about the best way to try and prevent this disaster taking place.
Chris Kearns
34   Posted 22/07/2008 at 15:19:44

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This is a Joke... We are worse than them accross the park.

I don't believe the fans should have been given the option to vote by the way and I think that is the fundamental thing wrong with this whole scenario.

A board's job is to make the big decisions,... if they want the fans to do it then give me the money they are on.

However, as the vote went ahead and the ?majority? voted for Destination Kirkby, then everyone else should conform.

This is about the good of the club... let's face it no-one is going to buy us at Goodison without a revamp which isn't practical.

I think we should put trust in the Board and let them make the decisions instead of thinking that its our job. We are the fans.... Our job is to SUPPORT the team; they are the board.... their job is to make the DECISIONS; and DM is the manager and his job is to look after the TEAM.

The point at which a club falls is when people get confused about their jobs and start trying to do other people's.

And for god's sake don't protest at a match... what are you kopites????!!!!??? We don't want our dirty laundry done in public like the shower on the other side of Stanley Park do we?????
Dean Williamson
35   Posted 22/07/2008 at 15:32:32

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Weather forecast for the next few hours on this thread after the comment by Chris Kearns: Shit Storm!
Chris Kearns
36   Posted 22/07/2008 at 15:37:24

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Dean you are obviously someone who feels it necessary to do everyone else's job?

Well I ask this?

Were do we go if not Kirby.... there isnt another option to my knowledge where a large proportion of the stadium will be paid for by someone else.

Wake up and smell the roses mate.... we aint got the money to build our own stadium... we need Tesco.

That's it in black and white.
EJ Ruane
37   Posted 22/07/2008 at 15:33:36

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Chris Kearns, you say..

"However, as the vote went ahead and the ?majority? voted for Destination Kirby then everyone else should conform".

I?d like to say that personally, I find it MUCH more offensive being told being told I should ?conform? than I ever would being told to ?go fuck myself? or to ?fuck off?.

Consequently, I think you?re a conforming conformer who should go conform himself (with a cactus...sideways!)

Chris Kearns
38   Posted 22/07/2008 at 16:03:46

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Look mate I wasn't meaning to be offensive I just think that if a vote occurs then whoever is in charge must go ahead with the majority....

Otherwise what's the point of a vote?

With all due respect the people who are complaining are the people who voted against the move and it's simply a case of throwing rattles out of prams because the vote didn't go their way.

Another point I've just thought of..... if you're on here voicing extremely one sided opinions and you're not a season ticket holder you should stop causing trouble... wot difference will it make to you???? You wont have to go to Kirkby whoever this applies to.
Tim Laynge
39   Posted 22/07/2008 at 14:13:02

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I do think Tom’s idea looks best for a starter. What about "All we are saying DKirkby we don’t want" along John L’s ageless tune.
Chris Kearns
40   Posted 22/07/2008 at 17:03:13

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No we are not all saying that.... I'm saying that I wanted people to let the board make the decisions and not cause trouble for no reason!!
Joe Ludden
41   Posted 22/07/2008 at 17:38:43

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Chris in your world there’s never any progress, no revolutions, no change. The sort of notion to blindly conform produced a rather dark patch of history in the 1930’s and 40’s did it not. Not being patronising fella, but you’d do very well to change your attitide on life to "question everything". Not just with this issue. We might all vote on this site for you to throw yourself infront of a train - I’d hate for you to actually conform and do it.

The t shirt idea is a goer - but as said above, this could back fire if the advertisment falls short and fans dont know. I’m more than happy to contribute to the organisers too - afterall Ive saved a shed load of hula what with not being able to buy any Everton merchandising for ages. For what its worth, the red tshirt would be much more dramatic. Failing that, yellow seems more appropriate. Whatever we go with, the boys at bluekipper et al should all be asked to run the story too.
Joe Ludden
42   Posted 22/07/2008 at 17:57:44

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Chris - forgot to add, I am not a season ticket holder either, as I live and work in Birmingham and can’t afford the outlay. I have been regularily attending GP since the 1980’s. My Dad didnt get a vote either because he’s not a season ticket holder anymore, but he has been in the past for probably more years than you have been alive - he’s been going to GP since the 1930’s and was a season ticket holder for the majority of that time. We both have a right to a vote on this in my opinion.
Colin Malone
43   Posted 22/07/2008 at 17:47:16

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It would be best to wear white not just for one game, maybe the first six games. As someone stated some supporters don't go on the websites, they only read the Tesco Echo or the Tesco Radio City or Merseyside.
Eric Holland
44   Posted 22/07/2008 at 18:00:08

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Yellow Hi Viz vests are available for about £2,
They will stand out, and a black marker pen could be used to add a box with a cross in it, next to the word NO.

NO X
Terry Maddock
45   Posted 22/07/2008 at 18:08:03

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Although I am a "Yes" voter, I am all for the white T shirt idea...

Advertise in all the local rags... all the EFC fan sites, everywhere you can, and hold the protest at the Bkackburn game (full house guaranteed).

I believe that all those who complained of not getting a vote, or that the vote was rigged, or that everybody who abstained was a "No" voter will get a chance to once and for all prove their point...

Also the request that anybody not wearing a white shirt i:e ME.. will not recieve any abuse and vice versa would be nice, if observed. I have found the "No camp" in the main to be bullying, moronic and short-sighted... if there were enough of them to do things "mob handed" I'm sure they will...

What I would ask is no tactics such as we have seen with the trying to put stickers on people going into the ground against their will... or standing round with "spare" white shirts to harangue people into wearing...

If, as I believe, a huge MINORITY of fans will turn up in white, will the No camp admit they are in the minority anf leave us alone???

I myself will, if it happens, support the majority... because they are the ones who will be there, Goodison, Kirkby or elsewhere, and I will be beside them, supporting my team...

Not once though ? St Georges Hall, The Casa... anywhere... Goodison itself ? have I seen more than a handful of protesters out of the 36,000 regulars who attend games....I suspect once again... the bark will be much worse than the bite.
Chris Kearns
46   Posted 22/07/2008 at 18:28:15

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Right....


The person who mentioned the train....If you read what I have said, I said that I didn't think there should be a vote, I think that the board should decide but as there was one basically we have to grin and bear the outcome.

The fellar who's not a season ticket holder..... I'm pleased you're a blue mate, honestly I am..... but I struggle to see how this affects you??? Basically you watch the odd game on tele, yes?

All I was saying was the vote was a waste of time... .coz the people who don't like the outcome act like a bunch of kids...... You really are going to look like Kopites if you go to the match in high vis vests or t-shirts

At the end of the day the supporters should concentrate on supportin the team. And I've got grounds to say this more than some because I live in Wirral and I didn't miss a home game last season!

Any replies welcome and will be answered!
Joe Ludden
47   Posted 22/07/2008 at 18:33:51

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Chris - vote or no vote, your idea on conforming doesn’t change. You would still want us all to blindly back the board no matter what they decide to do. You’re basically telling evryone that you dont have the capacity to make your own mind up and this has to be done by someone else for you (in this case the board).

I’m not a season ticket holder, but Im at GP many times a season -I simply cant afford every single match Chris when you add on travel etc - sorry I live in the midlands and have a realitively shyte paid job. However, I dont have to justify myself to you. I am as much an Evertonian as any of us and this debate is about those who can think for themselves making a gesture to the club to show that we haven’t accepted their bullshit and we think theres sufficient information out there to suggest we are being given a very shyte deal with Kirkby (Im not suggesting yes voters cannot think for themselves here, just that you cant Chris). Demonstration is normal in a democratic life. Blind conformity is the norm in a dictatorship.
Matt Geraghty
48   Posted 22/07/2008 at 18:32:02

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I’m sick of reading all this shite. If you don’t want to follow Everton to Kirkby, Don’t. We all have 2 choices
Joe Ludden
49   Posted 22/07/2008 at 18:59:05

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Matt - 1. dont read it then. 2. We are angry because of the very fact we don’t have a choice - your statement reads come to Kirkby or dont support EFC. Wheres the choice of: find a site in the city, redevelop GP etc etc. Choice? What you’re saying is choose between a slow torturous death or a quick gunshot to the head. I choose a... no b... no wait a... b... hhmm what type of gun?
Phil Taylor
50   Posted 22/07/2008 at 19:15:06

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I see the " Keep the drinking on County Road prior to the game " brigade are out again. Never met so much negativity on a move to a new ground. The old chestnut of adding debt to the club is not true as naming rights will pay for the majority of it. Kirby was once is Liverpool and with rail links you can get there surely ! However if you want to drink on County Road till 1455 with your possee then stay in the pub and talk about how great it use to be at goodison whilst the rest of us will get the long haul flight to Kirby to watch the team.
Colin Wordsworth
51   Posted 22/07/2008 at 19:30:41

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Joe

That is where you are wrong....there was a choice!

There was a good piece on the bbc website today, it read thus.....say Everton were given a nice portion of Stanley Park by our wonderful council, how could we afford the 250 million plus we need to build the stadium?

Whatever way you look at it, DK is fantastic value for money in todays terms.
Paul Thompson
52   Posted 22/07/2008 at 19:39:41

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Chris Kearns,
Winning a majority in a vote doesn?t make everything the winners do 100% right
Hitler and Thatcher prove that
As history proves, protest and resistance aren?t always bad things, either
Phil Taylor
53   Posted 22/07/2008 at 19:47:28

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Colin you are indeed a wordsworth. Your posting was a fraction of the size as some above but it said so much more and painted a rich blue tapestry against a dark dark knight ! Who needs a batman when you got the passion of Bill Kenwright !!!
Joe Ludden
54   Posted 22/07/2008 at 20:10:30

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Sorry Colin, was that a hypothetical scenario? How the heck does that constitute a choice? Now I get a choice of (stick with me here): a quick gunshot to the head, a long drawn out torturous death or use my imaginery wings and junior birdman it the hell out of there - which is only hypothetical, doesnt exist so please make a selection from one of a or b again. I choose to stay at GP... oh no, sorry, not one of your options. Choice ey... I need to look it up...
Dave Wilson
55   Posted 22/07/2008 at 19:38:58

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Ray Lumpton who floated this idea suggested wearing red, of course it would be dramatic, but too many of us just couldnt bring ourselves to wear the colours of the enemy.
Not many people own anything yellow and lots of people wouldnt know were they could get their hands on a hi viz or get the chance to get one.
Black would blend in too readily with non protesters.

It has to be white. it wouldn't cost a thing.
A tee shirt, a polo, even the one you wear if you work in an office, anything.
The younger people could wear the Nike/Stone Island/ Calvin caps, whatever they?ve got thats white, last seasons away shirt.
Imagine over half of Goodison bedecked in white? The effect would be dramatic. How on earth could the board pretend they didn't notice that?

Liked Tom?s idea too, adopting and perfecting a chant in time for the Blackburn game would be terrific. A sound AND vision protest.

Gavin,

Understood the point you were making about KEIOC, yes, they are just concerned fans like ourselves, but this is their fight too, they have a voice and can reach plenty of people who?ll be interested in this protest. I?m hoping they?ll throw their influence and support behind the idea.

Let's be proactive here guys, let's keep get - and keep - our protest on the front page.
Colin Wordsworth
56   Posted 22/07/2008 at 20:22:32

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Joe

It was a simple one.......do you want to move?

We voted....yes.....that is caled a choice, a simple one, but a choice all the same.

I see you have not denied that DK is value for money, because of course it is.

It is the cheapest of ALL the options and a great deal for the club.

Phil....do you kow how much passion BK has?.....like many things happening behind the scenes at our great club........I don?t either!
Graham Brandwood
57   Posted 22/07/2008 at 20:28:13

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To all people called Chris. the reason that we continue to protest against DK is that we are desperate. We think this is a dangerous decision and we are having sleepless nights about it. If the vote had gone against do you really think that you guys would be as upset.No because I don't think you live and breath the club like we do. The fans have been split roughly between those in the city and those from outside who drive to the game we are about to become the first big city club to move away from an inner city site to the edge of town. Nobody else would do it, its short-term gain for long-term pain.
Karl Masters
58   Posted 22/07/2008 at 22:10:55

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Graham Brandwood:

I’m from hundreds of miles away and I can see the madness of this move, especially in the long term. Does anybody really think that after a 250 mile drive or whatever they have done, we should have to mess about with park and ride etc for up to an hour each way? Along with fuel prices, that’s the sort of nonsense that will discourage Everton’s more far flung support rom attending as often.

I rarely ever go to the Pub befor the match because I have the drive home. Maybe a quick Chang inside, but not a pub on County Road or wherever. But, I can tell you, if you haven’t actually noticed this, it’s the ones with a bit of beer inside them that stand up and get the chants going. That’s another thing that concerns me about Kirkby. The atmosphere is hardly going to be bearpit with people having had a couple of cappuccinos in the Tesco coffee shop is it? Having visited Cherrywood Drive I could see very little sign of pubs and certainly nothing like enough to get 50,000 Evertonians satisfied.

Out of the city means lack of facilities and poor transport links. It means a slow ecline in the support, especially if the team hits a sticky patch.

Whilst I agree with Colin Wordsworth that this is a comparatively cheap option, that does not make it the right one. Cheapest is rarely best, unless you need a short term solution. and are planning to do the right thing later. Moving stadia is not a short term project. End of.
Damien Kennedy
59   Posted 22/07/2008 at 23:04:52

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Do any of you understand what a democracy is all about? Our board despite their innumerable failing have given us, the fans the right to decide on what " WE WANT" given the limited options. i.e, do nothing , look at developing a run down site not big enough to supoort the infrastructure needed to move Everton forward or move to a site which could potentially give us an opportunity to attract bigger investment. And we decided collectively with a majority TO MOVE!!! So listen to your fellow supporters
Kevin Mitchell
60   Posted 22/07/2008 at 23:03:39

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The white tee-shirts is a great idea and will be very visual, as long as every No voter and those who would have voted No if they could've gets to hear.
I honestly believe the vote was bent, yes an outside democratic company conducted it but the club must have given them the names. It just can?t be right that most No voters like myself hardly knows a Yes voter and also the amount of people who didn?t get a vote but should've seems very strange... if only I could prove it.
Keith Barrigan
61   Posted 23/07/2008 at 00:04:15

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Sorry to piss on yer chips anyone but I?ve just come back from our game tonight and yes there were Kirkby chants throughout the game, the fact they came from only what can best be described as just an annoying "handful" at the back who were ignored by the rest of the masses will give you some indication of how any ridiculous white t-shirt wearing protest will be received by most normal Evertonians.
Michael Tracey
62   Posted 22/07/2008 at 23:50:41

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What about a half time pitch invasion? A peaceful one of course! All the No?s sitting on the pitch!
Tom Hughes
63   Posted 23/07/2008 at 06:16:08

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Damien Kennedy,
If we had another vote now I’m quite certain the outcome would be different. Every poll indicates such, and there have been numerous threads started by YES voters who regret their "choice" with none of the opposite persuasion. If the club placed any properly thought-through option alongside Kirkby then it would receive next to no votes. It only managed 59% of the vote when it had everything stacked in its favour. With each revealed lie, that has reduced, not to mention the 11,000 abstainers who now too will have formed a more informed opinion. So, what do you suggest, we should still jump into the fire despite Kirkby not being anything like what it "said on the tin"?
John Andrews
64   Posted 23/07/2008 at 07:02:02

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Damien Kennedy,
I agree with you BUT the deal as described by Lieness has turned out to be a pack of lies.
Also has it ever crossed your mind that the vote was given to the fans so that Kenwright could never be accused of removing Everton Football Club from the city ?
Joe Ludden
65   Posted 23/07/2008 at 08:24:03

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Colin - your answers:
1. No, I don't want to move from GP
2. No, I don't believe DK is "value for money".
3. No, I don't believe DK is the cheapest of all options.
I would go into further detail to support the above answers, but this has been done over and over again on this site and others but you are not reading / understanding. I base this conclusion on the notion you think we have a real choice. My only choice now is exactly what was outlined to me above ? either follow Everton to Kirkby or don't. As I?ve stated through a simple analogy I hope you were able to keep up with ? I dont regard this as a choice. You simply added to this "choice" a fictional notion involving Stanley Park which is not on the table.
Tony Nelson
66   Posted 23/07/2008 at 09:06:55

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Let’s have a vote. Wait a minute....
Mick Bebington
67   Posted 23/07/2008 at 08:10:36

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Sorry, "no Voters" ? you stand no chance, you can?t even agree on a colour of T-shirt!!

I am a Yes voter, I live in Walton (shock Horror). I agree completely with you trying to stage some sort of objection to moving. Yes the majority voted for the move. But that does not mean that anyone who disagrees should just accept it.

All I would ask is that you try and protest in way that will not affect the team on a match day.

Another site I visit were talking about protesting outside Goodison on the night of the EGM.
Danny Naylor
68   Posted 23/07/2008 at 08:53:26

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For all the people against the move, has anyone ever thought about actually doing something about it?

It's been over a year almost. The move has been sent to government and maybe called in, and been delayed TWICE, and what have people who don't want to move done? Very little to actually cause something to change anything apart from vent anger on forums.

"Yeah let's protest the 1st game of the season" Briliant, a good 2-3 weeks after a decision has been made, and if it doesnt get called in it?ll already be in motion. You think a protest would stop a multi-million pound development that?s been given the greenlight? No.

Which has me thinking that --

A) People are still for the move...
and
B) There aren't enough people against it to make a significant difference.

Nothing has been done on all fronts minus the only thing councils etc had and that?s to request a call-in. Other than that who?s done anything to make a difference?

Have council men joined KEIOC or paid for, funded, anything to make a substantial difference? Has aything been lobbied on mass? All I?ve seen is a petition. WOW. They?ve had time to do something and maybe a week before a decision is made, nothing is not going to change anything.

We?re going or not going, it's simple as and nothing can change any outcome IMO.

Greg Murphy
69   Posted 23/07/2008 at 09:39:26

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Some cold truths there, Danny Naylor.

Small measure, I know: but the Official Site has now confirmed that the petition for the EGM is valid. In typical fashion, they?ve tucked this news away in the archive section (link below)

However, they?ve left the nice little "like this story?" thumbs-up gizmo graphic at the foot of it. Currently there are just short of 600 people who applaud the EGM. It would be nice if this story eclipsed the number of "thumbs-up" received for the Kilfoyle story.

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/egm-petition-received.html
John Lavin
70   Posted 23/07/2008 at 09:58:17

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I was at the game last night, as a previous poster said there was some anti-Kirkby chanting but as he also said it was just a few lads at the back. I think we might have to consider the cold dark truth that most Evertonians are in favour or at least not bothered about the move. Very very sad.
Steve Wolfe
71   Posted 23/07/2008 at 10:05:52

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I don't think it's that Evertonians don't care, I think it's more that they are not that informed as what we are on here. The only info they tend to get is little drips from local media, and let's face it, it's hardly damming against the move.

An example of this is my dad who wasn't fussed either way about the move until I showed him all the evidence I collated online... He couldn't beleive it ? especially when i showed him the simplistic table format that the two shareholders had devised to outline the wrongs of this move.

This got me thinking what if we could get KEIOC or somebody of that ilk to run off copies of that table on paper and have a big NO or X on the other side, and hand them out on matchday, then everyone could get a balanced and informed view of what is going on.

Ed Fitzgerald
72   Posted 23/07/2008 at 10:45:01

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I understand that some people think that taking some form of ?direct action? might be the best way to highlight the destination Kirkby issue alive but to be honest I?m not really sure. I think many people do underestimate the power of the internet in both keeping the topic alive through forums such as this and by being able to more easily research the fine details of our friends Wyness, Leahy et al

The fact that we have got to a point where Hazel Blears is even considering calling it in is testament to the fact that many blues have quietly badgered away e-mailing officials at all levels arguing the case. I am not saying of course that the local council?s objections have not played the major part in getting plans reviewed; I am merely suggesting that the Internet and its attendant Evertonian network groups have maintained a high line of resistance. Maybe we need to consider a different form of direct action (electronic) to ?hurt? or disrupt the club, KBC or TESCO. All these institutions will rely on computers to function perhaps some ?teccie? type IT nerd can think of a totally legal strategy of group e-mails? to disable them. Maybe the authors could of the different major forums could get together and think of a co-ordianted response.

I am not dismissing some form of visual protest (personally I can think nothing more offensive than wearing red! rather than white) as a bad idea, just trying to think of a more diverse strategy than the usual forms of protests.

Dave Percival
73   Posted 23/07/2008 at 12:50:01

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Well done Chris Kearns - its the silent marjority as usual who need a voice not the disgruntled minority - whats the saying - ’empty vesels make most noise’
Liam Young
74   Posted 23/07/2008 at 12:55:33

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I think our immediate concerns need to be the transfer market rather than Destination Kirkby, Andy Johnson appears to be leaving, that will leave us with a thin strikeforce, and no midfielders, cahill will not be fit for new season, neither will vaughan, anichebe at olympics, we need 6 or 7 transfers and so far we have nobody, is anyone else worried??, i know i am. We should have new players in now settling down with their team mates. Something is very wrong at everton for me. Esepcially after saying the ground move will not affect transfers. We need proof of this to be reassured.
Tony Williams
75   Posted 23/07/2008 at 13:44:25

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I think the white T-Shirt one is a goer.

I can do them for a quid a pop, just send me your credit card details to givemeyourmoney@hotmail.com
Paul McMonnies
76   Posted 23/07/2008 at 16:09:44

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As someone who has been involved with trying to arrange a protest at EFC before, I can tell you that unfortunately, apathy most definitely rules and the main obstacles are
1) Over complicating things
2) Publicity and alerting people

IMHO, the key to getting ANY kind of mass participation it to KEEP IT SIMPLE.

As it was for the last protest, my idea for the organisers - be that KEIOC or whoever- is similar to the T-shirts/colours idea but requires much less pre-planning, publicity and expense.

In short - you get everybody to hold up a coloured piece of paper at a pre-designated time - sort of like the "Show the red card to racism" campaign.

As stated above, the most "shocking" colour would be red but that brings obvious problems with Evertonians (!) so maybe yellow (i.e. a yellow card ?) would be effective.

If costs are an issue, the coloured paper could simply be blank A4 with the people handing them out TELLING people when to hold them up (or with a sign explaining)

However if minimal printing is OK then a SIMPLE message on each sheet would suffice - "If you object to Kirkby - hold this up for XX minutes after kick-off/half-time" etc.

If a bit more printing is affordable - a big "NO to Kirkby" with the same simple message would be my choice.

I think this keeps it as simple as possible and all it requires is as much yellow paper as can be carried - and of course - people can bring their own paper (or boxes of paper !) if they wish to contribute/support/help out.

Above all - KEEP IT SIMPLE ! No "propoganda", no "facts", no "spin" - there is no need for that anymore - just "if you object - do this".

(And well done Dave Wilson on the original article by the way - an excellent point well made.)
Ian Caveney
77   Posted 23/07/2008 at 18:51:22

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A protest always sounds nice and possible when you?re sitting in front a computer screen fantasising but in the real world they don't work; apathy ? and the fact at least half the fans support the move ? is a potent weapon it seems.
Dave Wilson
78   Posted 23/07/2008 at 18:45:23

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I think we all accept that the apathy of the No voter has been the biggest ally of Tesco / the Board during this entire fiasco, We could all have done more, but we believed the club would cock this up for us and that would be an end to the matter. Tesco have other ideas...

I understand the thinly disguised pro-Kirkby brigade claiming it's too little too late, they would, wouldn't they.

The Blackburn game is only three weeks from Saturday, even If DK is given the nod in the meantime, do you really believe if 25,000 people descended upon GP creating a sea of white, that Blue Bill would push ahead? He?d have been deprived of his "precious" mandate !
DK represents the biggest gamble of his life and even the most foolish of gambler?s would require some glimmer of hope that they can succeed.

There?s a hell of a lot of people calling for the democratic process to be upheld; my sentiment entirely. We are far better informed today than we were when the club attempted to lead us up the garden path with promises of a world class stadium etc etc . . . A show of hands - or white shirts - NOW would represent a much purer example of democracy.

I can't help laughing at the the people who come on here saying things like "give it up guys, there's only a handful of you". If that's the case, I wonder whats troubling them? Trust your own eyes and ears, you know there are thousands and thousands of anti-DK Blues, you?ve seen and heard them for yourselves, - so too have the people urging you to "give it up".

Support this protest, guys , as Paul McMonnies points out we can't afford to complicate the issue so let's stick with wearing white - keep things simple.

We don't have a ready made outlet like the Post/Echo nor the club's OS, but we can reach right across Evertonia through the independent sites such as TW. Get the message out, post to all other sites, tell all your mates to tell their mates
Urge everyone who says he?s anti-DK to wear white at the Blackburn game, remind him/her that if they don't support this protest, they really should forever hold their peace.
Eddy Bernard
79   Posted 23/07/2008 at 22:30:26

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Great idea Dave and very simple.

If you can get to the Blackburn game and you're anti-Kirkby then wear a white T/shirt/shirt.
It's no use moaning about the move and then doing nothing.
If you go and don't wear a white shirt don't bother posting messages about the ground move.
Time is running out and the no vote need to do something now.
Colin Jones
80   Posted 23/07/2008 at 22:59:26

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I’m all for this in whatever format is agreed but still think that the yellow card idea is the best.

You can hand out yellow cards to people who are against Kirkby but didn’t hear about the protest but you can’t hand out white shirts.

Also, it might rain so if everyone wears a top or jacket, the effect of the white shirt is lost unless everyone removes their top at a specified time.
Tommy Gibbons
81   Posted 24/07/2008 at 02:37:08

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"John Lavin said:
was at the game last night, as a previous poster said there was some anti-Kirkby chanting but as he also said it was just a few lads at the back. I think we might have to consider the cold dark truth that most Evertonians are in favour or at least not bothered about the move. Very very sad. ..."

Well I don?t think it was sad I just think it proves the vast majority live in the real world not just on internet forums.The YES voters have spoken, and please remember..the No voters came 3rd in a 2 horse race..
Tom Hughes
82   Posted 24/07/2008 at 04:11:45

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Tommy,
Over 10,000 voted against even considering Kirkby when it was supposed to be a world class stadium, when it was supposed to be practically nothing and when it was supposed to be the most accessible stadium in the country. This is by far the biggest vote against any move proposal the club has ever made, despite there being no single alternative option other than "doom"! Every single poll that has taken place and numerous threads since have shown that many yes voters have now changed their minds, and the abstainers not convinced either way back in august are hardly likely to be enthused by Kirkby now. The real world is: This is a very average stadium (at best) in a poorly served location (transport wise), at a much higher cost than originally stated. Evertonians normally react to what goes on on the pitch only, so this is alien to all of us, but the main problem is many have been convinced it couldn?t really happen, now some are making their views heard. I?ve a feeling that murmur will grow into a Goodison Roar if this edges any closer.
Dave Wilson
83   Posted 24/07/2008 at 05:24:57

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Colin

I know what you're saying mate, but your idea would need co-ordination and volunteers, the majority of us would never have taken part in a protest in our lives, we don't have "protest skills".
The onus has to be placed on the individual. It's absolutely imperative that any protest is a peaceful one, the choice of white would be to emphasise this ? it would be symbollic
Tommy Gibbons is the latest yes voter to try to discourage you, he talks about "the real world". If Tommy walks in the streets, drinks in the pubs, goes to the games, he?ll know that the overwhelming majority of Blues in "the real world" are completely opposed to the DK proposal.
Support the protest, prove it

Gareth Humphreys, Nice one mate, keep the faith, spread the word.
I?m off home to bed.
Tommy Gibbons
84   Posted 24/07/2008 at 06:27:52

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I was at Preston, have a season ticket and go the pub, walk the streets etc.... and all I see are dead people!! Sorry, that line's from a film, but I thought I?d keep fantasy running a little longer for you No voters.

You obviously didn?t go to Preston where the scally rabble tried to get Kirkby chants going... didn?t happen because the real world Evertonians know we have to move on, they?ve already voted Yes and will await the outcome peacefully.

The No?s lost the vote, have bullied and cajoled ordinary Evertonians, shouted shite like that from Tom Hughes about refurbishing GP plainly forgetting that LCC don?t want us so won?t help, ignoring the fact that (just as in Kirkby) people will lose their homes etc and totally ignoring the fact we?re skint! But I know one thing... unlike the No?s, if the decision goes against us, we?ll still follow the club... wherever they end up!

Tom Hughes
85   Posted 24/07/2008 at 07:42:08

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Tommy,
Unfortunately, I am in the middle of the north sea and was unable to attend the other night. However, I did receive a call off one friend during the match asking me to listen to the chanting which he was joining in with at the time. He’s not a scally (most of the time) but a professional engineer, others with him similarly well qualified and of the same opinion. The protesters seemed quite vociferous, but I suppose it can be deceptive..... but no more than the now age-old misconceptions you’re still trying to pass off as "reasons" to support Kirkby. Once again, as ever no comment about the actual issues/facts as laid out in simplest terms previously. (I wonder why?). As far as shouting shite.... I can give you scale drawings you can only offer unsubstantiated rhetoric! Stadium Architects have stated GP can be redeveloped, especially as we now are able to find £78m+ for Kirkby. When have you been bullied or cajolled? Personally, I was sent hate e-mail when I dared to show what could be done at GP, however, I don’t believe it has anything to do with the relative merits of Kirkby/redevelopment. In Kirkby over 70 homes are being demolished and a care home and a whole school. The demolitions in Walton need not be anything like as extensive depending on the format chosen. As far as LCC not wanting us.... The heads of both main Parties in the council and the heads of planning are all EFC season Ticket holders and have repeatedly stated the opposite. Not forgetting the Loop Proposals and Kings Dock. BTW, I have never said I’ll stop going. Apart from when working away (I have worked all over the world) I have only missed 3 home games since Alan Ball was playing, and am a season ticket and shareholder.
Ste Kenny
86   Posted 24/07/2008 at 07:48:02

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I think it would be a mistake to do the white t-shirt protest at the Blackburn game.

IMO it would be better done at the last home friendly. This way it could be organised so that all those wanting to protest could be seated together which IMO would create a more powerful image.

Goodison colours are blue and white anyway, how noticeable would extra white t-shirts be?
Steve Templeton
87   Posted 24/07/2008 at 09:09:40

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Tom,
I admire the way you have led the ’no’ vote and respect your intelligent input into the stadium debate but there is one matter that I take issue with you and that is whether LCC would really help us of DK went tits up.

I take on board your comments regarding the politicians all being Evertonianons but on thing sticks out in my mind more than anything when I consider this particular point and that is Warren Bradley’s comments when news of DK first broke. You may recall that he said something along the lines of ’I will not give away tax payers land for nothing’ which was a direct reference to KBC’s free offer of land for DK.

I appreciate that the situation has changed since the beginning of the stadium debate but I stil have lingering doubts over whether LCC would actually come up with anything concrete in the event that DK did not go ahead and we look to LCC for assistance. I take the viewpoint that a lot of the comments now being made by Bradley, Anderson et al are simply politicians trying to either defend themselves from the inevitable criticism if DK goes ahead or make hay at their opponents expense.

Steve Templeton
88   Posted 24/07/2008 at 09:25:12

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Apologies for the grammatical errors, I wrote that post in a hurry!
Paul McMonnies
89   Posted 24/07/2008 at 09:22:29

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Whatever decision is made, I will make sure that it is publicised prominently via the People’s Forum, however I still think the following key factors need to be adhered to :-

- Keep it VERY basic and simple
- Make it something that EVERYONE can do
- Make it highly visible (I think the blue/white comment above is a relevant one)

The publicity for something like this is - as has been pointed out - a key factor, but over complicating things can cause less and less participation, and as time ticks on towards the first home game, a decision needs to be made so that word can spread.

Just to echo the sentiments from the original article, this is what I would say to everyone reading this.....
Forget everything that has happened before regarding the vote, what you voted, any arguments you have made in the past and just take a fresh look at this. Look at what was originally promised, and look at what has since been disproved. If you believe that this is wrong and if you don’t want the Kirkby move to go ahead, then you really MUST consider getting ACTIVELY involved.

I’m not ashamed to admit my participation in a previous protest which (for various reasons, but IMHO, it was for being over complicated and involved too much "propaganda") was fairly ineffective and involved me personally becoming the subject of ridicule and abuse, where I was even spat at by "fellow fans" as I walked along the front of the Gwladys Street.

I felt about as low as I ever have done about being an Evertonian that day.
But do I regret doing it ? Despite all that ? Despite all the ridicule and hatred from my "fellow fans" ? Do I hell ! Not a second of it !
As I said to myself at the time - this is WRONG. It is WRONG for the club and it is wrong for me - and if I don’t at least TRY to make my voice heard, then I really don’t think I can call myself an Evertonian any more, or raise my son as one.

And this is exactly the same situation. Kirkby is WRONG. I have no doubt of that in my mind and I’ll do everything I can to fight against it - so that I can continue to call myself an Evertonian and continue to raise my son as one with my head held high.
James Connolly
90   Posted 24/07/2008 at 16:50:08

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Where to start?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the ’no’ voters think Everton Football Club will die if we move to Kirkby?

The response is ’Yes’ I think.

So I’ll ask, how will we die?

Their replies are as follows:

1. Our heritage and identity will be lost.
2. Evertonians and their children will slowly start supporting Liverpool instead.

This is the basis of the ’No’ voters argument.

I believe ’the fear of the unknown’ like the way is a child is afraid of the dark is a very powerful emotion. The child will start imagining things and paraniod delusions will step in i.e monsters, ghosts, basically things that aren’t there.

This is what has happened to the ’no’ voters. Everton Football Club and it’s supporters will never forget our heritage, or our identity. And no Evertonian will ever follow Liverpool.

If we go to Kirkby, all that will happen is that the club will create even more heritage and history, and will continue to create more Evertonians.

Goodison Park was once a new ground. Those that opposed the move to Goodison formed Liverpool Football Club and stayed at the old ground called ’Anfield’.

I love Goodison Park only because it’s the current home of Everton Football Club.

I will love our new ground because it will be our home. I am not an Evertonian because of Goodison Park. We all hate leaving somewhere we’ve grown up with, but that is not a good enough reason to veto a move to pastures new.

We will always be Everton, wherever we go!
Eamonn McConnaghgey
91   Posted 24/07/2008 at 17:55:01

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I think the protest should be on the night of the EGM. My reasoning is that the small shareholders are doing their bit in bringing Directors to task.

They need some support from the "ordinary fans" who do not want Kirkby.

It is difficult I feel to get average Evertonians to do protests at games because they are behind the team and the manger.

I’ll happily drive the 60 miles to protest this move. I would echo the point made earlier only in a peaceful protest.

Can any of you see Kilfoyle turning up that night to address the locals?!

It is time to turn up the heat, I think.
Dave Wilson
92   Posted 24/07/2008 at 20:42:05

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Tommy

You're right, I wasn't at Preston ? don't think I?ve ever been to a friendly in my life, but I didn't miss a Prem away game last season and guess what? I didn't see one single case of bullying,

It's a real pity you feel the need to refer to fellow Evertonians as "scally rabble" simply because they dont share your point of view, still you?ve given us all a lift by anouncing the protests have started already ? there has'nt even been a call for one yet.

Tom Hughes is right, if there's already rumblings, imagine the mighty roar it will have become by the time the Blackburn game comes around...

Feel free to come back and tell us ? once again ? how unworried you are.

Gavin Ramejkis
93   Posted 24/07/2008 at 20:59:04

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James C if only the world was as simplistic as you put it. There are countless reasons why DK is wrong to a multitude of No voters, let’s just add a few and ask for your comments:

Lack of adequate transport facilities to get to the stadia without adding a minimum of 1 hour before and after the game

Lack of parking nearby thus alienating disabled match goers (a 30 minute walk or crush loading into a train is not going to happen - this affects two of my passengers who have held season tickets for years 1 of which way before I was born) - how many season ticket holders could be lost and regenerated in a small town with a population of 42k to fill a 50k stadium?

Mistrust of everything the board and CEO have told the paying customers the fans - World Class has become mid range, when asked about transport "I don’t know I’m just a fan", no other alternative to GP would be plan B from BK himself, qualified and clever men like Trevor Skempton being silenced at the AGM, extra revenue streams from concerts and non football activities to KBCs nothing plus 100 freebies for themselves and a limit of 50k on the stadia to flatten KW’s attempt to rubbish the loop saying it could hold 75k. How many cyclist supporters do we have?

Heritage and location go hand in hand with a football team who has the largest documented walk up support in the country - do you honestly expect the walk up contingent to walk down the East Lancs to pay a higher price than they do now?

I’m sure many more people could add a swathe of other reasons but I’ll let you digest these few and respond to them in case you think I’m scared of ghosts and monsters that might be lurking in the shangri la of Kirkby.
Phil Griffiths
94   Posted 24/07/2008 at 21:40:51

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Dave Wilson

Its a real pity you feel the need to refer to fellow Evertonians as "scally rabble " simply because they dont share your point of view

TBH Dave I think you’ve got a real cheek saying that considering the abuse ’yes’ voters get on this site.

Nothing annoys me more than the insinuation that ’yes’ voters are ill informed on the issues surrounding the debate and don’t particularly care about the future of our great football club - see above for more examples.

I come on this site every couple of months to see if the same sour ramblings are being voiced and you it never fails to disappoint.

All this nonsence about if the vote was taken again blah blah blah. How many votes do people want, is one not good enough? As far as I know giving the fans a vote on such a major issue is unprecedented and yet the abuse the board has recieved (from certain quarters) has been ridiculous.

There was a vote, the majority voted yes, deal with it and start supporting the team you all proffess to love instead acting like petulant children!!

Roll on the abuse!!!!!

Graham Brandwood
95   Posted 24/07/2008 at 22:48:56

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Tommy. Who are you calling scally? You know nothing about the people who are against the move. I would suggest that the No voters are from a wide range of backgrounds, with varied levels of education, and both emotional and logical well thought out reasons for not wanting to move to Kirkby.
Tom Hughes
96   Posted 24/07/2008 at 23:14:45

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Phil,
We had a vote based on completely inaccurate information, none of which even the club would dare to repeat now, yet you think such a vote is still valid and meaningfull?! In your opinion, at what point and after how many deceptions does it become a farce? These are fundamental issues, and you are trying to sweep them under the carpet. Everton Football Club is too important to too many of us for that to be allowed to happen. No abuse, no childish petulance, just simple facts! What you voted for doesn’t exist. What it actually is has avoided comparison and scrutiny at every turn..... and for good reason!
Tom Hughes
97   Posted 25/07/2008 at 07:17:19

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Steve Templeton,
Apologies, missed your previous posting.

I’m not sure what people are really asking for when they ask about what LCC will do for us etc. Especially when some still believe that our partnership with Tesco has been as fruitfull as first intimated, when in essence it has only really yielded the funding of one new stand and the plot it sits on is the freeby. Tesco are not themselves funding any part this, and yet we still need to find over 3/4 of the construction costs. Deal of the century, when we are in fact their enabler? If this does go tits up, the club will hardly be in any great bargaining position which would’ve been the case if the exclusivity deal wasn’t in place, however, the planning office have stated that they are more than receptive to ideas to accommodate expansion at the current site and have repeatedly invited the club to discuss this option, to no avail. It was also felt last year that the enabling development possibilities in and around the Loop site were also viable. The return on city centre developments can be much greater than out-of-town since the scope is generally broader and value’s are greater as was seen with the Kings Dock stadium where roughly 90% of the stadium costs where easily covered, as opposed to just over 20% at Kirkby. If development incentives were found, there is no reason why similar deals can’t be agreed with LCC as were done with KMBC, although I’m not sure how the current climate would see that.
Dave Wilson
98   Posted 25/07/2008 at 07:26:06

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Phil

Ok, You have a point - been guilty myself of getting carried away
But I?m done arguing the right and wrongs of the move, opinions wont be changed by the arguments put forward on this site.
My article was purely for the no voter, although I accept the yes voters have the right to put their views forward too,
It was an attempt to move away from the name calling
Maybe we should all take a lesson from Christine, she faced a lot of insults for the Article she has recently submitted, most of it from obviously less intelligent people than herself. Her dignified responses kinda put them all in their places.
Adam Cunliffe
99   Posted 25/07/2008 at 07:43:23

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Unfortunately I?m in Skiathos for my summer holiday with my family for the Blackburn game so won?t be able to wear any white tee-shirt in protest to the move. I?m glad that people are starting to realize what a travesty this is.

I will still follow Everton if we move to Kirkby and I will still love the blues; however, there are many who wouldn?t and I respect them completely if they have the willpower to give up on the club they've followed for years.

Also I was on KEIOC.net (no, not a Japanese dentist) and I was looking at the letter a certain Tom Hughes sent to Wyness 4 years ago and between that, TW and the lies of Wyness my dad, who was a Yes, is now a No. A similar pattern is happening all round the Evertonian community and the board don?t seem to be realizing. So for anyone taking part in the protest, good luck and lets stop this shambes now.

Steve Templeton
100   Posted 25/07/2008 at 09:19:50

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Tom, thanks for your reply. I suppose the point I was making was the stark difference between the approach of KBC to having a major Premier League football team within their boundary i.e they have bent ove backwards to make it happen and are willing to make a financial commitment by way of the donation of land and the statement of Warren Bradley that they would not give us any land free of charge. What do I expect of LCC? I expect them to do everything within their power to keep a major and extremely famous business within their boundary which includes providing financial incentives.

I just hope that they have now realised the error of their ways and do go out of their way to help us if we do not move to Kirkby.

Graham, the words ?stones? and ?glass houses? apply to you I?m afraid mate. In your original post you accused Yes voters of not caring about the club as much as No voters and of being from outside the city. I don?t think you could say anything more insulting to me than accusing me of not caring about my football team more than you do and yes I live in the city just like you and just like many other Yes voters.

You have no grounds on which to criticise other posters for abuse when you yourself are guilty of the same sin.
Michael Thomas
101   Posted 25/07/2008 at 13:31:56

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How about everyone takes in a Tesco carrier bag before the game, inflates it and throws it on the pitch, and a couple of banners saying what we think about the Kirby move? Would cost nothing and even if it doesn?t work, will cost Tesco a couple of quid in carrier bags, COYB, let's stick together and kick this shit idea into touch once and for all, nec aspera terrant (difficulties be damned).
Steve Templeton
102   Posted 25/07/2008 at 14:27:30

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Michael, didn’t liverpool fans do the same thing at last season’s derby?
Tommy Gibbons
103   Posted 25/07/2008 at 20:05:50

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Did I upset a few of you? Got a reaction though didn?t it.. I still stand by what I said because the scally approach is what the No voters look like to the board. You?ve had no coordinated meaningful action other than abuse to board members, abuse from those who set themselves up in the Windsor with their abusive banners, that banner in the sky which was just a joke! one banner in the Park End at the end of last season which everyone ignored, the call on the forums for a protest at Preston, which produced nothing other than about 30-40 people from appx 3500-4000 supporters singing anti-Kirkby songs..They got a lot more response when they were singing the new Yakubu song (based on the shite's Torres song).

The point being.. just like LCC, you're leaving everything far too late, even the EGM (which I hope to attend) is far too late. In fact, your total inaction beggars belief. If all parties eg LCC/Bestway/Keoic etc seriously thought the Loop was feasible they should have produced a report with all costs, timescales and funding plans and made it public! You could have asked supporters to help funding for the surveyors/builders/architects plans at a £10 each. and I tell ya, even I would have given a tenner, in fact I believe you could have got a minimum of £100k just from the No voters in the poll and a fair number of the Yes voters like myself would I?m sure have contributed.

It would have taken someone with the courage of their convictions to actually do something constructive and of a scale to make the club stand up and notice. But sadly, nothing but rhetoric, bluff, smoke and mirrors..

Oh yeah... as for the bullying, you?ve all seen it on the message boards and seen it outside the Wiinslow. I never said I?d been bullied coz I ain?t for being bullied... .Anyway girls n boys..if Kirkby fails, what will you do next?

Dave Moorcroft
104   Posted 26/07/2008 at 00:56:38

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Re TG, If Kirkby fails the shite that are owning and doing a "Wonderful job" will be forced to sell. And I am sure there is someone out there who will do a much better job than these lazy twats.
Tom Hughes
105   Posted 26/07/2008 at 01:14:28

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Tommy,
Demanding that fans or whoever else should do the club’s work, yet ignoring the endless misinformation and zero tangible evidence that the club have exhausted all the options is a rather skewed angle to take don’t you think? Bestway commissioned a preliminary report by the world’s leading stadium designers, and where did that get them? LCC put the Kings Dock on a plate for just 10% of its full value, and where did that get them? If the main decision makers have no interest whatsoever in what you have to say how could any company justify spending anymore on a lost cause. This particular horse does not want to be led to the water, nevermind made to drink. The biggest club not to have attracted investment..... ask yourself why, and stop labelling decent blues who are mostly professional people as scallies as if it means anything as regards the real issues which you continually avoid.
Tommy Gibbons
106   Posted 27/07/2008 at 02:13:48

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Thanks for proving my point Tom.. A preliminary report..says it all doesn?t it. Do you not concede that a full report including costs and funding plans from Bestway and a cast iron committment from LCC re land usage and planning permission (and a sizeable contribution to the cost of the report from fans) would have made more of an impression on the board? You know as well as I the exclusivity clause would not stop the plans being publicised forcing the club to give answers. But more to the point is the fact Nothing was done by the NO lobby before the vote, you had your chance and blew it.

As for the scallies, my point is those at Preston were just endemic of NO voters in their actions, no co-ordination, hey, but at least they tried, not like you professionals who sat on your arses doing nothing before the vote because you all thought the majority would vote against and have done nothing of any consequence since.

And since when did being a?professional? exclude you from being a scally?... and the Kings Dock. It was offered to LFC first (what does that tell you)? and at the time the £30m or so may as well have been £300m.. it wasn?t long afterwards that we sold Rooney was it?! becaue we where skint..(still are aren?t we)? Investment, now what would you call getting a stadium built for you, land given to you, and transfer funds being released for you.. Tesco, Knowlsey MBC, Robert Earl, explain what their contribution is then if not an investment of some kind..

Tom Hughes
107   Posted 27/07/2008 at 06:58:56

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Tommy,
I?m not being funny, but you?re getting this all back to front. KEIOC only existed for a few weeks before the vote, yet you expected them to produce full plans and costings when they are not stadium designers nor have the funding to produce the same. In anycase it is not their job to fully explore all the options, it?s part of what we pay a CEO and his staff for. Where are the feasibility studies, the costed appraisals for phased redevelopment carried out by several independent stadium design companies? They don?t exist! Even Tesco/KMBC/EFC with teams of people working on this couldn?t produce a costing at the time of the vote, despite having put in over a year and thousands of man-hours. The £78m figure didn?t appear officially till over 6 months after the vote. After doing a few sums, KEIOC had stated a similar ball park figure at the time of the vote, and were laughed at! As far as KD is concerned, your attempt to sweep it away is a weak one. As Arsenal?s chairman said at the time, to have let that opportunity vanish for the cost of just one good young player was criminal negligence. That stadium would now cost £4-600m
Tommy Gibbons
108   Posted 27/07/2008 at 15:49:58

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I haven?t got anything back to front. My premise is this: the vote was not sprung on anybody, we knew it involved locating to Kirkby which seems to be the main bugbear with most No voters... so why did they not mobilise before the vote took place? Bestway/LCC, why did they not get the feasibility study done (see prev message) in fact anybody who had an alternative to offer do anything before the vote!

Pleae don?t go on about the board, they made their decision but incredibly left it to us to either agree/disagree, and they spelt it out plainly enough, if we didn?t agree they?d pull out from Kirkby.

Kings Dock and Arsenal? Funny that, if it was the all end all of stadium deals, why didn?t Liverpool take it on! As they where asked first!..
Anyway..gotta go and get sunburnt. I?m taking my passpport as I?ll be passing through Kirkby checkpoint!!

Tom Hughes
109   Posted 28/07/2008 at 06:58:31

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Tommy,
Apologies, I didn?t get a chance to finish due to a fire alarm. I?ll try to explain what you got back to front. It is/was the club?s responsibility above any other interested party to seek out all the options and fully evaluate the merits of each. That?s how any design/decision-making process is initiated. This could have taken the form of a tendering process or even a design competition whereby stadium designers and/or potential investors would have been given a brief along the lines of we can afford a debt of say £20-78m, what can be achieved at GP for this amount or any fraction thereoff? What can be achieved elsewhere with this as EFC?s contribution with a view to attracting investment via other enabling developments etc? This they would have coordinated with the planning office. This would have been normal practice but has not happened which means that at no point have the club been sufficiently informed to even approach such a major issue, nevermind implementing a vote. There are no planning applications nor requests for planning guidance regarding any site! In our case the old pal act of Leahy/Kenwright has produced ONE solution that enables Tesco to build their biggest store in the world while violating every piece of local and national planning legislation and without making ANY contribution to the stadium costs, and every effort since has been to try to make our problems fit their solution and to avoid any direct comparison with any other option. This by definition can only represent the complete opposite of our ideal objective (EFC-led)design process. In otherwords the club have not engaged in any process to seek the ideal solution for the club at all...... why should anyone else do it if they can?t be bothered to get the fundamentals right?

The Loop option was found by renowned Architect and Everton season ticket holder Trevor Skempton. He informed the club first, and requested to meet to discuss it despite being extremely busy while responsible for overseeing the whole Grosvenor project. The club simply didn?t want to know. He approached Bestway and LCC, and both were enthused by the prospect, but again the club still did not want to know..... Why should Bestway spend anymore on the issue when they were simply stonewalled as outlined by Malcolm Carter?s report? The club even went to the effort to employ Tesco?s experts to rubbish the Loop?s possibilities, and when HOK produced their report Wyness uttered the immortal words that EFC need a 75k capacity. Amazing how he hasn?t commented on Knowsley?s planning office insistance that Kirkby can never accommodate more than 50k. Why should LCC spend any more tax payers money on EFC to do what they should be doing for themselves? That?s why you have got it back to front. Ultimately it is no-one else?s responsibility to seek the best solution for EFC, but the club?s itself and they sinply haven?t even done the basics to achieve this. Other parties can help facilitate things such as planning etc, but if the club doesn?t want to know as indicated by exclusivity and being totally unreceptive to any suggestions or dialogue as is well documented, then why bother?

As far as Liverpool being offered KD first or whatever..... It?s highly contentious to start with, but completely irrelevant as regards the outcome. Ultimately, EFC were adjudged to have won a design competition to build on KD by LCC. LFC didn?t feel the site was big enough for their needs with 55k capacity..... seeing as they have over 3 million UK based fans you can see their point. Regardless, this stadium (HOK designed) was several levels above the basic off-the-shelf Barr effort, with greater capacity, greater flexibility and potential for increased revenue streams (concerts etc remember that in the Kirkby literature? another distant memory), greater accessibility with all city-centre high-capacity transport hubs nearby, local amenities galore, CBD for exec provision and iconic design in an iconic location...... all for just £30m. It could have been paid for by one or two year?s champion?s league payouts. A stadium many times the value of the Kirkby effort for a pittance. "Be all and end all".....? Pretty much I?d say! Certainly puts the deal of the century (you can have 4 stands for the price of 3) in its place, don?t you think?



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