Bottom line we have no money, we are potentially moving to Kirkby (I am against that by the way) but even if we stay at Goodison the problem in my opinion financially is still the same if we have to fork out £78 million to develop it, purely because I don't believe an extra £10 million supposed revenue from Kirkby a season (based on £78 milion of new debt) scratches the surface.
So to my point, why not start again and take a high risk approach to future success.
I have calculated we could raise around £90 million from the players we have currently, I won't go into the individual valuations as someone will debate whether Piennar is worth 4 or 5 million. Sell the lot of them and concentrate on the kids, keeping the likes of Rodwell, Vaughan etc and take a chance that we might stay up.
If we go down then so be it, we end up with a stadium fully developed that we own, reduced debt and reduced costs as the bulk of the players' wages have gone. We would also have the parachute payment to support the re-build. Then with a sound financial base we start to build something that is sustainable and very investable.
I know its not an option for the majority nor is it ideal in any way some would say outrageous and even stupid, but it is the type of thinking any owner, managing director, venture capitalist of a small or large business would have to be considering in the real world.
I am a bit bored with the whole transfer saga at the moment and the same old arguments about DK so forgive me, I would like to hear sensible debate about why this would be stupid. Their are no gaurantees that we would get back into the Premier League but that's life I am afraid ? the same as it is at the moment for people buying petrol at the pump: they can't afford it so they look at alternatives.
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1 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:29:55
2 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:30:05
3 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:32:35
Just for the loss of revenue alone with falling out of the Premier League, umbrella payment or not.
4 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:34:38
5 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:40:52
Fickle I would not have believed but so be it.
I am not suggesting its done but these things have to be considered in any business in the light of no alternatives.
6 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:38:20
Then you have a very young - not to say tiny - squad, trying to avoid relegation and an alienated fan base disillusioned with a club that sells the best players. Any youngsters with an inkling of talent would want to go elsewhere as what incentive is there for them to stay at Everton? Team morale drops, fan interest (what?s left of it) evaporates and you have not enough money to build a stadium with not enough fans to fill it.
That?s just the start. Others will no doubt point out other flaws. It has some - sort of - logic but the reality of it would in no way match your ideal.
7 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:44:02
8 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:45:50
Listen, I know all the pitfalls, but if things get worse then what will they do? No one will invest in this club ? that's pretty clear.
9 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:44:32
10 Posted 24/07/2008 at 14:51:45
11 Posted 24/07/2008 at 15:09:55
£78 million for new stadium in either location, more debt and still need to pay at least £20 million for players for next season.
No spin from any one here, just harsh reality, get in the real world or are you one of the Holy Trinity brigade who continue to live in the past?
12 Posted 24/07/2008 at 15:14:31
Loss of revenue, ie no more millions from Sky. The sponsor deal amounts will decrease (if that’s possible), Setanta money non-existant, as I don’t think they do the Fizzy Drink Leagues.
Some fans will be put off by the Premier League season tickets costs when playing the likes of Darlington, so yes there will deffinitely be leakage.
13 Posted 24/07/2008 at 15:24:23
I am fully aware of the issues around my suggestion; however, what alternative has any one else got apart from what the club are trying to achieve?
Or will everything be alright when Abramovich No 2 comes along and puts Hans Christian Anderson in charge to make up nice stories for you all, that make you feel good.
14 Posted 24/07/2008 at 15:33:02
The obvious way to raise cash is to issue more shares at, say, £1000 each. The Board won’t do this as the individuals holding the existing shares will have their investment diluted (I presume)
I also presume the the ordinary non-Board member shareholders didn’t buy their share(s) to make money...they are Blues
So we as individuals are left with the option of giving the club the money free and gratis. Could we get 45000 worldwide to donate $2000 or 90000 at £1000?
That’s the 90 million pound question
15 Posted 24/07/2008 at 15:55:02
16 Posted 24/07/2008 at 15:56:59
If it could be done without getting relegated it?s as good an idea as any other. I don?t agree with you but I accept it?s an idea one could put on the list of things to consider so to speak.
However, and this is my point, if we don?t have enough players NOW and we sell £90m?s worth of players....who the hell would be left?
Your idea would actually work for somebody like Chelsea... they could probably see £100m+ worth of players and still have a cracking team...... if we did it, we?d not only not have a team, we?d have no marketing staff, no directors, no financial people, no office people, no customer service people..............hang on.....it?s a brilliant idea Paul! Let?s do it!!!
Seriously though....... it would never work.
17 Posted 24/07/2008 at 16:22:10
18 Posted 24/07/2008 at 16:28:30
19 Posted 24/07/2008 at 16:22:47
20 Posted 24/07/2008 at 15:20:38
21 Posted 24/07/2008 at 17:34:40
You heard it here first folks.
22 Posted 24/07/2008 at 17:36:51
23 Posted 24/07/2008 at 17:36:41
I believe I understand your logic but it is flawed.
Everton FC is a TOP FLIGHT football club, indeed, more so than any other in English football history. The Premier League is like a pyramid, it is a long way to the top but that is where to be.
The finances are all important and it is through success on the pitch that our revenue will increase.
Success will be most likely by keeping and building on our existing squad.
Can you imagine the media led feeding frenzy that would follow your possible course of action? I
n the real world the vultures would tear the flesh off the carcus before you could say, "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum".
24 Posted 24/07/2008 at 17:51:16
25 Posted 24/07/2008 at 18:29:08
26 Posted 24/07/2008 at 18:51:41
27 Posted 24/07/2008 at 18:54:30
28 Posted 24/07/2008 at 19:06:32
If my comment sounds like a joke, please, trust me IT ISN’T - You need serious help now.
29 Posted 24/07/2008 at 19:50:43
30 Posted 24/07/2008 at 20:42:07
Somehow I assume it doesn’t work that well in real life...
31 Posted 24/07/2008 at 20:34:07
32 Posted 24/07/2008 at 21:18:52
33 Posted 24/07/2008 at 22:49:46
34 Posted 24/07/2008 at 23:46:50
35 Posted 25/07/2008 at 01:20:56
Paul, I admire your gumption for posting this suggestion, even though I don’t necessarily agree with it. But what does amaze me is the immature reaction of many to your suggestion - and not one of those damning you (generally with a mouthful of vitriol) has responded to your challenge to offer a viable option! Even more alarmingly, many have based their "partial options" for raising funds in supporters putting their hands in their pockets yet again (not a bad idea if it leads to changes at the top of the EFC organisation) but then assumes that the current "leadership" of the Club will use it purposively on players and/or infrastructure.
Once again, this clearly has not happened, especially since the arrival of KW as evidenced by the "missing" millions from the sale of McFadden and the misleading statements over our financial burdens and other infrastructural requirements in relation to Kirkby, the (in my opinion fraudulent) Fortress Funds affair, etc, etc.,
So, rather than tearing Paul to shreds on this one, let’s try and focus on the bigger game which is the survival and continued improvement of our beloved EFC and try to come up with realistic options to achieve this.
36 Posted 25/07/2008 at 06:46:20
37 Posted 25/07/2008 at 07:26:40
38 Posted 25/07/2008 at 08:04:34
By no means would I want us ever to go down the route I suggest, however in business terms all things have to be considered in the absence of cash.
It is distressing to wake up every morning wondering if a business is going to survive especially with the added pressure of irational football supporters which we all are to a degree.
I merely offer a thought process that I would expect a good chariman/ CEO to consider if the problem of cash was only going to get worse.
Yes you look at all other alternatives as well as thats your job to do, a cold hard look at things now and again can focus the mind on more positive actions.
I hope and I believe to be honest that we will be fine and good times lay ahead but not without some pain first.
Thanks again Laurie.
39 Posted 25/07/2008 at 09:09:27
40 Posted 25/07/2008 at 10:02:34
41 Posted 25/07/2008 at 10:40:21
42 Posted 25/07/2008 at 09:55:53
43 Posted 25/07/2008 at 11:18:58
SHUT UP FOOOOOOL
44 Posted 25/07/2008 at 11:49:34
45 Posted 25/07/2008 at 12:29:15
Please, please, please can you do something positive with our football club, so that we can have something nice to debate on Toffeeweb. We are all so bored of scouring the internet for something positive that we are creating ridculous posts.
PS. Neville on a new 4 year deal is not quite what I had in mind!
46 Posted 25/07/2008 at 12:41:19
It was at that point that I pissed myself laughing at this joker.
47 Posted 25/07/2008 at 12:39:29
So we would rather be relegated with a group of kids, and not move to Kirkby, but as you say "Thats Life", no it isnt!, That's insanity. It's not even an option. Why the hell are people considering jeapordising the team on the pitch for the stadium?? If we move to Kirkby we have 100% ownership, a team in the Premier League, and hopefully still a decent side on the pitch.
I support Everton the team, that's the most important thing, remember this: your Premier League position affects how much money you get, playing in the Championship = fuck all money and a stadium we won't be able to fill.
Come on guys and girls, is this the kind of fans we have at the club now? I'm still yet to hear a single viable option other than Kirkby. I love Goodison, but realise the future of the club is more important than anything else, some people are willing to chuck ot all away. Crazy Talk.
But thanks though Paul, you did make me laugh very loud.
48 Posted 25/07/2008 at 12:53:19
49 Posted 25/07/2008 at 13:11:06
50 Posted 25/07/2008 at 13:52:19
I have never read of anything so insane.
Moving to Kirkby indeed!
51 Posted 25/07/2008 at 13:38:43
52 Posted 25/07/2008 at 16:08:14
As for "I merely offer a thought process that I would expect a good chariman/ CEO to consider if the problem of cash was only going to get worse" Get real! This is something an Everton Chairman/CEO might consider but even they are not that inept. If we sold the entire first team squad we wouldn’t really have a viable option.
Plus you forget that our current debts ARE securred against Premier League Money and future Season Ticket sales.
Barry Kermode, your idea is an updated version of Tom Hughes plans and is actually financially viable.
If we are to borrow money it should be to build a new Park end stand a la Tom Hughes. The enlarged stand would then allow us to slowly rebuild the ground, stand by stand. It would also mean we could have all the new technology encorporated over time and we would actually have Stadium not a big bowl!
Even Man United did it slowly!
53 Posted 25/07/2008 at 18:46:03
Our best youngsters couldn’t even beat Cambridge. Can you see the grin on Gerrards face when he scores the 9th goal at Kirkby... before half time!
Not to mention Hull City collecting our Sky money.
Lee Smith summed it up in the first response. After that everything else is superfluous.
54 Posted 25/07/2008 at 20:08:19
55 Posted 26/07/2008 at 02:47:58
I believe it is commonly called The Leeds Model. Run out of cash, flog your first team, rely on kids to keep you up and finish up with Ken Bates as your Chaiman and Dennis Wise in-charge playing 2 divisions below where you started.
In terms of thinking outside the box....how about getting one of the largest and most successful business in the UK to build us a new stadium as part of a major regeneration project, somwhere fairly close to our roots, but perhaps more conveniently located for travel?
Ideally we would get them to pay for virtually all of it minimising our overlal exposure and risk.
Sounds crazy. Actually it sounds insane, it is so far out of the box.
I am not necessarily pro-Kirkby, but in terms of out of the box and a radical plan.......err I believe that it ticks all of the.....err boxes.
56 Posted 26/07/2008 at 04:23:51
New stadiums are wonderful ... especially at the expense of quality players - just ask Southampton and Leicester fans!
57 Posted 26/07/2008 at 08:19:51
I?m sure this one?s a bit tongue in cheek. I just hope BK doesn?t see this otherwise big Keith will be out of work.
Your?e obvoiusly not the only advocate of stripping all our assets.
58 Posted 26/07/2008 at 08:35:22
59 Posted 27/07/2008 at 09:29:15
60 Posted 28/07/2008 at 18:21:12
61 Posted 28/07/2008 at 19:02:19
62 Posted 29/07/2008 at 08:00:32
But it would take three years to build a new ground. Could we survive in the Championship for that long?
To be honest - it’s not a bad plan for a team who was hovering around 14th in the Prem every season... but giving up the chance of top six finish each year is a big gamble.
ps. Replace Wyness with Carol Vorderman!