On Monday we should know the result of the Government`s consideration of the plan to move to Kirkby. Maybe, just maybe, we may also learn that our manager as agreed to `do a Neville`and stay with us for another few years... But, whichever way the DK verdict goes, it bothers me to think that Everton will remain a club whose supporters are at each other`s throats.
True, ~60% were prepared to back the move but many of them are now saying they were deceived. Of the No voters, a considerable proportion are so alienated by the Club`s dismissive attitude that they vow never to set foot in the proposed new home. So parlarised are present standpoints that, whichever way the verdict goes, some fellow Evertonians will now be regarded with disdain.
Now the management of this great club has NEVER made much effort to keep their fans `onside`. Even in the glory days of the Moores empire, most of us felt we were only a necessary evil so it will be a daunting task facing this far less capable administration to bring us back together. PR spin won't do it, appointing more puppet spokesmen like our ex-centre forward will have no effect and I even suspect that Davey announcing he`s staying will be taken as indicating he`s `one of them` ? whichever side have their way!
So it has to come from us. Only we, the paying public, who view ourselves as the backbone of the Club ? the very spirit of its existence ? can heal the rift which in so many misguided ways the Chairman and his lieutenants have brought upon us. WE have to begin the reconcilliation process if there is to be a future for our club be it at Kirkby, Goodison or somewhere else.
So, in the same manner that some religions `share the peace`, let`s all make a point of shaking our neighbours` hand at the Blackburn game and thus get on with the job of supporting the greatest team in the land!
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1 Posted 26/07/2008 at 16:11:35
Vile and disgusting comments removed by moderator
2 Posted 26/07/2008 at 16:22:11
3 Posted 26/07/2008 at 16:37:54
I think more than handful won?t go to Kirkby. Are you assuming that people's reluctance to join in chant as a barometer of whether people will go to DK?
4 Posted 26/07/2008 at 16:33:18
I take it from your comments that you are a "no" voter. I respect your choice in this matter.
However there is no need to be so hateful and vulgar in your comments. This site can well do without rubbish like that. You may well feel that the "powers" that run the club are making all the wrong decisions but true Everton supporters can express their views without being so distateful with words. In fact I will go so far as to state that true supporters are better off without people that spout vile like you on supporters web sites.
Well said, VIc: Gavin's digusting comments have been removed by the Editor
5 Posted 26/07/2008 at 16:44:44
6 Posted 26/07/2008 at 16:44:22
7 Posted 26/07/2008 at 16:53:41
8 Posted 26/07/2008 at 17:00:15
9 Posted 26/07/2008 at 16:59:40
10 Posted 26/07/2008 at 17:09:32
Whether we move or not, I do hope that the two sides can see a way to reconcile their differences, That Gavin bloke frightens me to death!
11 Posted 26/07/2008 at 17:06:52
- You will not be able to park within two and half miles of the ground
- The train is a one-line station capable of handling no more than 4500 people an hour and is 1½ miles from DK
- There aren?t enough buses to take people to the ground (but hey that's OK cos there are bicycle places there!)
- We were promised a world class stadium ? we are getting a mid-range quality
- We were told that non-football events would generate significant extra revenue ? there can be none of these cos the council won?t allow it so no additional revenue
- We were told it was effectively free of charge ? we now know that it is going to cost at least £78m of additional debt and that dosn?t include all the fitting out costs (but thats OK too cos the extra fans will cover this debt - err rwhere from? - it?s hardly prime football fan territory there esp EFC fan.)
So please someone anyone tell me what the positives are about Kirkby cos I am struggling to find one that will be long term. The match-day experience as most us know it will be destoyed, huge swathes of people will not fancy waiting two or three hours for public transport, lot's of people will not be up to walking the 2½ miles there and 2½ miles back and lots more simply won?t do it on a cold wet winters night.
But hey thats all OK cos Billy Bullshitter and Keth Lieness will be snug in their Director?s Lounge with their big cars parked outside watching us poor dickheads queing up for a milkshake or a bus in two hours time.
And one final thing Peter Singleton - there may have only been a few anti-Kirkby songs but I have yet to hear one pro-Kirkby chant!!! We have been lied to and betrayed by the people who we look to to run our Club the way we want ? the fact that they aren?t breaks my heart and it saddens me to say they are killing our Club.
And I take no pleasure at all in saying that..
12 Posted 26/07/2008 at 17:08:33
If you think I?d bother driving 96 miles (I now live in Wales) on a cold wet February night to watch Middlesborough and then have nowhere to park, or have to walk for "90 minutes" after handing over a King's ransom to some effin jobsworth carpark attendant, as has been suggested, then you?re havin? a laugh. I?m not going to get on me bike either...
It?s not as if I?m a fairweather fan ? I?ve been going to GP since 1959, week-in, wee-out, from the great sides of the 60s to the shite of the 90s, but this may be a bridge too far.
I feel as if we fans have been shafted by BK/KW and tricked into accepting a rigged ballot. Not rigged as in a dodgy ballot count as Mugabe would do, but rigged as in voting for something completely different to what we will end up with.
BK/KW should be careful.... a good mate of mine has been following Everton, home and away, for decades. Through unfortunate circumstances he can no longer attend weekend games because he has his daughter then and rightly chooses to spend his time with her. However much he missed Everton to start with, he sees that there IS a world without going to GP at the weekend and could well be lost to Everton, as a paying fan, for all time.
How many of us know someone who "used to go every week" until kids and the accompanying shortage of cash stopped them? Once they?d stopped, they didn?t start going again but remained Evertonians in name only. I?ve played golf with two today. "Always went the game but don?t bother now... prefer to play golf and watch ?em on the box" .
I fear Kirkby will result in thousands like them,after all, we have the biggest "walk up" fanbase in the Prem. And it?s a longish walk to Kirkby for some people....
13 Posted 26/07/2008 at 18:16:15
Unfortunately if DK goes ahead it will create 'Nu everton' and my Everton FC will have been killed, so I wouldn?t attend for a great big clock matey.
14 Posted 26/07/2008 at 18:27:03
Your logic is a little flawed to say the least. It is not the most erudite of theories is it?
You are assuming (are you?) that there is a direct correlation between the number of people who chant Anti-Kirkby songs at a friendly game and the number of people who will not renew season tickets if/when we move to Kirkby. Are you inferring that there is causal link between chanting (and numbers of people who chant) who modify their behaviour in light of the chant if so please explain the following
? Why during a particularly good cup run (remember them) with those thousands of blues singing at their top of their voices - has no one?s mother (I am happy to be proved wrong, although for it to count it obviously exclude finals) put the champagne on ice for the victorious supporters return ? well maybe Bill Kenwright?s mum did?
? Another chanting behavioural mystery has anyone seen Kopites thrown one by one or by any other number thrown into the Royal Blue? Mersey
Peter I am sorry to tease you but you are talking out of your arse. If you are blessed with some form of Para-psychological skills that gives you insights into the future spending of people based on chanting behaviour at football matches, give up the day job Pete and become a millionaire.
If the club took its approach to this (impact of Kirkby upon supporter?s behaviour i.e. -buying season tickets) seriously they should have carried out a proper statistical analysis of an appropriate sample of season ticket holders. In fact as a business I would have thought this was a must given the potential loss of revenue. Perhaps they are not arsed or complacent or did not think like a business and assumed that customer loyalty could be taken for granted. Or perhaps they have in which case I would love to have a look at the data and the methods they applied.
Finally Peter It gives me no pleasure to hear Evertonians chants berating the club, which is why I have never created a chant for the following: Neville, Hibbert, and many others!
15 Posted 26/07/2008 at 19:22:14
16 Posted 26/07/2008 at 19:26:54
I hate to see everyone arguing on ToffeeWeb as that is not it?s purpose. It?s purpose is to inform us all about everything Everton and it does a bloody good job. It shouldn?t be used as a battle ground for all Evertonians old or young.
Call me naive but this whole saga isn?t Everton and we are a laughing stock to the shower across the park. I don?t care what the red shites say but I do care about what Evertonians say so can we try and stop the insults please.
We are Evertonians no matter what our stance is on the proposed move so let's start acting like adults and debate properly.
Sheesh and I thought us teenagers were supposed to be the immature ones.
17 Posted 26/07/2008 at 19:44:55
When people state stupid things like because a handful of people chant something at a match they can make predictions about how many people will jib DK, they have to be challenged. Or because they follow Everton do we have to validate things that are patently bloody stupid?
18 Posted 26/07/2008 at 19:51:03
19 Posted 26/07/2008 at 20:54:13
Also Gavin, apologies it just seemed that when it said vile and disgusting comment I presumed it was an attack on Yes voters. Still, no need to be vile and disgusting towards anyone.
20 Posted 26/07/2008 at 21:00:27
I think a lot of the emotion comes because some people still believe the sun shines out of Bill?s arse and given all that is in front of us I, like you, find that hard to swallow.
I also think we need some form of action before the 2 clowns running the club (or not as the case may be) take EFC to a point of no return.
21 Posted 26/07/2008 at 21:11:47
Are you a Shareholder? Shareholders may have a valid gripe (although probably difficult to prove in terms of financial loss) and at least a theoretical means of taking action. Beyond that... what? The kind of action campaign that got Agent Johnson out? The huge irony of course being that there needed to be a willing purchaser... who was none other than Bill (Black or Blue) himself.
I?m not a fan of BK by any means but you, Gavin, Jay Campbell and the other Bill-haters ? what are you actually gonna do?
22 Posted 26/07/2008 at 21:16:24
Read my response to the original statement to Peter. I don’t care if they chant it or not, the point I am making is that you can’t predict who won’t go to Kirkby on this basis?
That was the line of argument!! Read the thread
23 Posted 26/07/2008 at 21:30:23
Your right we can’t predict the amount of people who will and won’t go to Kirkby and I do think that people who say they won’t be going may end up going just like the rest of us.I know I will, will you?
The point I was making in my original post was that we should not be getting at each others throats over the ground move.We should be doing what we’re doing and be debating not arguing.
Also regarding your original post Kopites have never been thrown in the Mersey but it would be nice if a few were.
Finally, they may of been people who werent at Preston who won’t be going to Kirkby so it’s not an accurate way to gauge wether it will be successful in regards to the fan base.
24 Posted 26/07/2008 at 21:21:12
As you rightly state there is little direct action non-shareholders can take other than
? Sign on-line petitions etc ? the official ones
? Send e-mails to the politicians involved
? Err try and get Anti-Kirkby banner into the ground
? Charter a plane and fly over Goodison
? Wear White at the Blackburn game?
? Start a few chants
I have only done the top two so far!
Having said that a group of shareholders are trying to do something via the EGM aren?t they so finding a way for supporters to register their protest is legitimate.
I don?t think Jay is advocating anything particularly guerrilla like such as kidnap, vandalism perhaps something more in line with some of the recent suggestions about some form of visual approach with maybe some more media savvy strategies. It is an emotional issue and people such as Gavin and Jay are in my opinion rightly worn out by Kenwright?s mendacity and double speak. If you are no fan of Kenwright and the regime which he leads yourself perhaps the question could have been re-phrased to read ?what we are we going to do??
The editorial team at Toffeeweb could market some form of non violent protest (such as the white shirt idea, I am sure there are more original ideas out there) or do the team at Toffee Web see their position as essentially neutral and therefore unable to support such an idea?
25 Posted 26/07/2008 at 21:58:35
If we go to Kirby and then the club is taken over and a new controlling structure is put in place will you reconsider?
You see I only have 1 problem with Kirby itself, and that’s the parking. As I travel from Norfolk to watch our homegames distance isn’t a problem for me, although I can see it being a real problem for the walk up fan base.
Quality of stadium can be improved at a later date, albeit at a price, so that isn’t a reason in itself.
In fact my only other problem with the whole thing is the way that we have been lied to from day one, the way we have been treated as idiots by the people running our club. At the moment I am not buying a season ticket, but if they sort out the parking and get in new bosses, I will reconsider.
Am I alone in feeling this way?
26 Posted 27/07/2008 at 00:45:55
27 Posted 27/07/2008 at 01:08:15
I can understand those who believe that because we have done well on the pitch then all must be well behind as well. I can understand those who ask the question Why are we so vindictive to the management of this club when we are doing well?
We have done well with David Moyes, he has continued to pull rabbits out of hats and we continued to punch above our weight according to many commentators and media.
But it is the foundations that are crumbling and I don’t mean Goodison Park. Decisions are being made that frankly don;t add up.
Its not a conspiracy theory, Moyes hasn’t signed. Why? AJ is obviously already gone but the club persist (as they did with Rooney) that he won’t or isn’t. Nothing seems to be happening on the transfer front.
I personally think that some of the youngsters will do well this year but the backbone of our squad is now very brittle. It needs quality.
To heal the rift? Lets hear from the club about our concerns. Because the ONLY way it will be healed is for the CLUB to make the effort.
Now I am really trying not to be the cynic but its never going to happen because of too much vested interest.
The only realistic way forward will be a decision on our future. One way or the other. It will stop the debate but never heal the rift. That might take a few years to say the least.
But then who cares? Not those who think they know best. I doubt my personal anger for the way we have been treated as fans will not be abated by sitting in a souless half empty stadium watching kids run their heart out for EFC.
28 Posted 27/07/2008 at 01:48:39
29 Posted 27/07/2008 at 08:11:33
Michael as Ed said above all we can do as match-going regulars is protest (when we don?t get mob handed stewards removing them in the ground), protest on the web, sign petitions and vote with our feet, the latter being my course of action should DK get the nod after all the ticket and transport comes out of my own pocket and I could easily spend the money on my two young sons and wife, the young sons only introduced when they are old enough to away games which will be far more infrequent than the season tickets I would have bought them both.
The outburst of emotions may have been obtuse but heartfelt. The cap doffing subservient will always be ridden and used by the successful and further their progress. I?m my own man who won?t swallow the lies and obvious self-serving, no matter how much it will be difficult to give up going to the game after all these years they will have changed it too much and disenfranchised two members of my family after even more years of their following the club they love too.
30 Posted 27/07/2008 at 09:34:56
I bought my son's for the family enclosure on Wed, and the assistant informed me that they were 3,000 down on last year, DK starting to bite already?
31 Posted 27/07/2008 at 09:06:41
I?m only one man and in the grand scheme of things probably won?t make a great deal of difference but I will not accept the board?s future vision for the club and to be quite frank i?m sick to death of the mediocrity being dished out season after season and a large section of the fanbase's willingness to accept it. I think David Moyes has done a fantastic job really, considering the restraints he has to work under and to be honest has been a great credit to Everton Football Club not only for his management skills but in the way he conducts himself. Truly a nice genuine fella.
I?m not going to into one about Kenwright coz you're right it is getting boring and my views on him and Wyness will never change but what is the most infuriating aspect for me is that it seems the Everton fans don?t seem to realise their own importance! They are the paying public. They are the club's bloodline. Without the fans there is no Everton.
I just cannot believe that Kenwright and Wyness up until this point have not been made to answer the many unanswered questions relating to so many matters that are wrong with the club today. All under their watch as well. To say they have ran through a minefield and sidestepped everyone of them is an understatement.
The Kirkby move is a perfect example of what?s wrong today in modern day football and to be honest i don?t want any part of it. That?s all I can do Michael.
32 Posted 27/07/2008 at 10:53:15
The publication on EFC?s website from a so-called MP from Walton was the last straw for me. Telling EFC to get out of the Walton area and out of our great city was just unbelievable, and the club fully endorsed and agreed with it.
To Steve Pugh, Everton are my club. If we leave this city we will die. To answer your question, no I will not start going again once we move to Kirkby. Think of Wigan: this is what Everton will become, playing in a half-empty souless stadium, stuck in the middle of nowhere.
33 Posted 27/07/2008 at 13:15:04
I am a lifelong fan who walks the game and proudly talks of the magic of it ? the buzz, the sea?s of blue walking up Wessy Road and County Road... no other club in the world has this. The songs after a good win walking back down the streets... we are EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB and I hope we never lose our beauty.
I am a big anti-BK follower and have never trusted him... he thinks he?s the pied piper outside the ground giving tickets away but now he?s giving our hearts away. My thought of a protest are similar to the RS... we should stage a sit in and chant our feelings after the Blackburn game... big singnings or not!!! The RS did it and got answers... so we should get them too. We deserve this at least. Those who don't want to wear white or chant can just leave at the final whistle... those of us who want to make a stance can simply stay in the GRAND OLD LADY... she still loves us at least!!!
PLEASE JOIN ME AT THE BLACKBURN GAME AND FOLLOW OUR HEARTS. NEVER EVER FORGET OUR BADGE....NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM...IT ACTUALLY MEANS SOMETHING...COYB.
34 Posted 27/07/2008 at 15:52:49
1) We stay at Goodison and we eventually redevelop it to everyone?s satisfaction.
2) We stay at Goodison and then eventually find and relocate to another location that satisfies everyone.
3) We go to Kirkby and after a season or two it starts to emerge that it?s all great and there was never any need to worry.
All three of those are long-term solutions (even the end of, say, the 2nd season at Kirkby won?t be until about 2014).
So until then expect the rifts to deepen and fester for a good few years yet. Sadly that may well prove irreparable.
35 Posted 27/07/2008 at 11:59:41
Since the vote, I have read many posts on here with points of view both for and against the move. But come Monday or Tuesday the decision will be made and I think it will be in favour of DK. Then things will move pretty quickly.
My point here is 'What will the people who run ToffeeWeb do to help heal the rift?' Or will they actively encourage further protests? Just a point I am Yes voter and I was one who stayed out on strike but you still talk to the people who didn't.
36 Posted 27/07/2008 at 16:24:44
- Report the news about Everton
- Post people?s comments about Everton in the Mailbag
- Put up feature articles written by Everton fans
- Provide a diverse range of threads discussing any and all of the above.
We are not in the healing business, neither do we "actively encourage" any of the above. We look at everything sent in and decide where to put it if it passes muster.
I have a feeling that, if a decison is finally made on Destination Kirkby, there will be a deluge of mails, a few articles, perhaps some considered Op-Ed piece from ToffeeWeb Towers. And judging by past experience, the stuff posted will cover a wide range of opinions, reflecteng the wide range of opinions that you will get from any sizeable group of Evertonians on any given Everton subject. Polarization of more strongly held views driven by the more emotionally expressed feelings from the most vocal Evertonians will dominate, of course, and may give the appearance of there being a "rift". But to me that seems to just reflect human nature when the chips are down: you are either for us or against us. The George Bush view of the world.
As for a comparison with the miners in 1984? ... er.. No. Differences of opinion expressed on am internet forum are one thing: are the two sides of the DK 'rift' actually at each other's throats in the pubs of St Helens?
ps: Jay Campbell: Nice post. Why can't all your contributions be that well written instead of the one-line bile I've had to delete?
37 Posted 27/07/2008 at 20:39:46
You should start a new thread about the possibilty of a sit down chant/protest after the Blackburn game? Try and get the attention of a few more blues so people know what's going one?
Possibly post the idea on Kipper, NSNO etc. and see how many people would be interested in this idea, hand out a few leaflets around Country Road before the game, get people to spread it round?
This is probabley one of the better ideas I have heard and I think its worth a go, it's about time we got our voice heard as a group and see how BK, KW react
Maybe we could make something happen???
38 Posted 27/07/2008 at 21:22:41
Nothing lasts forever and if we are really honest with ourselves, supporters have been the last consideration since Sky TV bought the soul of the game. It is still entertaining and it is still Everton but TV cash in one form or another rules every decision.
Clubs are always walking a tightrope because of the stupid amounts of money commanded by even average players. The brats are also not attracted by a crap stadium, neither are new supporters. The world changes, just look at your own town centre.
The TV does not care if it is Goodison or Kirby, it just fills a couple of hours air time. The game as we knew it has gone. Goodison will just be another casualty of progress, but that might not be such a bad thing. Parts of my history disappeared with Liverpools old city centre, but I can?t say it is not better now.
39 Posted 27/07/2008 at 21:36:00
40 Posted 27/07/2008 at 22:10:02
Your post is so true it’s unbeliveable.I get the exact same feeling.With my Dad and brothers walking to the game after we’ve parked up by the bus shelter where the lad on his bike asks to mind the car.Then going into the Walton Labour club or the Anfield pub for a drink before the game.It does make you proud to be blue.
Im on holiday for the Blackburn game but for anyone who disagrees with the move do some sort of protest be it either the white tee shirt thing or a sit in after the final whistle.
I so hope it gets called in
41 Posted 27/07/2008 at 22:14:32
You say that you love Everton to bits but if they move you will never go back. I don’t understand it? Why wouldn’t you go back if the people that have done this to the club are forced out and new owners take over?
42 Posted 27/07/2008 at 22:49:01
43 Posted 27/07/2008 at 23:07:57
44 Posted 27/07/2008 at 23:25:19
Even with the glossy campaign promising DK would be world class etc etc, over 10,000 didn't want it, did they?
Let's wait and see if it goes ahead. If it does as a YES supporter (your words) you will not miss the dribble of fans (?) who will no longer attend.
45 Posted 27/07/2008 at 23:51:48
46 Posted 28/07/2008 at 06:30:12
The one and only thing that irks me about this whole debate is the UNBELIEVABLE thought of a so-called supporter not going to any more games to support the club and players because of any such move. There are thousands of fans like me all around the world who can only dream of seeing our beloved EFC in the flesh by going to a game. People whinging about having to walk 1 or 2 miles after they park their car or get off a train to watch a game should realise what a privilege it is to be able to attend games at all. I live in Australia and have supported EFC for over 25 years but I can only dream that one day my son and I will be lucky enough to go to a game.
My message is, don't take EFC for granted! Support them no matter where they play or who plays for them or who manages them. I understand the passion and emotion involved with this issue, but we must support our team no matter what the circumstances are.
47 Posted 28/07/2008 at 06:50:16
48 Posted 28/07/2008 at 09:53:04
49 Posted 28/07/2008 at 10:49:15
He doesn?t go to many matches but I doubt he will go to any should the transport/parking situation not get sorted.
50 Posted 28/07/2008 at 12:22:34
Gerry Dignum - the main entity that you hurt by withholding funds from the club is the club.
Mark Williams?s idea has merit and we should all support it (Yes and No voters). Yes voters will obviously go home immediately after the game, but it will serve as an indicator as to how many attending fans are against DK. Don?t forget non-season ticket holders and non-Evertonia members have never been given the opportunity to express an opinion.
51 Posted 28/07/2008 at 14:21:46
We?re all "mad" Evertonians so a bit of comradery might help even if we do see different "paths to glory".
For my part I cannot forgive this board for the constant stream of lies, deceit and mismanagement of the club which has led to this situation but FFS lads please stop the backbiting thats going on and disagree objectively without the nastiness.
52 Posted 28/07/2008 at 14:27:45
53 Posted 28/07/2008 at 14:25:01
I think Richard?s hope of friendly handshakes before the Blackburn game are, unfortunately, not going to happen because supporters on both sides of the debate have now become so polarised. My view is that we should all be united in focusing on the team and what happens on the pitch because the club and it?s history cannot be changed.
I am a very sad long and loyal supporter who despairs at some of the vitriolic comments now coming out, on these pages and others, from fans who support the same club. Guys, life is too short so let's make sure we focus on the team when the season starts and not the off-pitch bickering.
54 Posted 28/07/2008 at 15:54:25
Saying ’if we go to Kirkby I won’t go again’ is simply cutting off your nose to spite your face and some of the views expressed on here border on bigotry.
I have followed EFC for 46 years and simply cannot imagine not watching them.
I was a yes voter but I changed because of the appalling way that the club have dealt with the situation.
I am not opposed to moving per se, just being given one set of ’facts’ by the club to enable them to acheive a result and then finding that those ’facts’ do not correctly represent the situation.
I feel let down by the people who run the club I love. But the people who run the club have let me down before and I am sure the at some time in the future another administration will let me down again, there have been 12 managers since I started to support the club all have fallen short at some point.
But I will never stop supporting the team, whether they play at Goodison, Kirkby or somewhere else.
I have been accused by the ultra nos of being a wimp, well I think I can live with that as much as Jay Campbell can live with my distaste for his proposed actions. But while at Goodison or Kirkby I will still have the opportunity to show my distaste for the current board every other Saturday, should I so choose and still enjoy watching the team. What options are left to him and his ilk?
55 Posted 28/07/2008 at 17:23:34
I?m sorry but I will not be taken for an idiot by nobody and you needn't spout the loyalty and "support them through thick and thin' line because they have had countless years off me and to honest it?s a load of nonsense.
Everybody has their breaking point and mine has been reached under Kenwright and Wyness.
56 Posted 28/07/2008 at 18:21:57
"Saying ?if we go to Kirkby I won?t go again? is simply cutting off your nose to spite your face and some of the views expressed on here border on bigotry"
My opinion (of your opinion) is this.
You and those who think like you, obviously can’t get it into your heads that for many of us (some of us, a few of us?...whatever) it WON’T be Everton anymore.
I’m NOT asking you to agree, I’m simply saying that if you DID see things this way, WHY would you even contemplate going to see a club you DON’T see as Everton?
It’s a fairly simple logic to follow.
The notion that we won’t be going because we’re ’cutting off our nose to spite our face’ is just fucking dumb.
And as for your ’bigotry’ claim, talk about gibberish!
At least I can guarantee that the views expressed here from no voters, come from real people, not reds or lackies working for fat Keith and spending months writing pro-Kirkby shite under bogus names.
Remember this, nobody pushing against this move has ANYTHING to gain, other than keeping us where we belong.
NB:: No I’m NOT talking about you specifically, but to deny this has happened, after some of the shite we’ve read here, would be naive in the extreme (and to be fair, it’s exactly what I’d have done in their position)
Also, can we, once and for all, put a lid on this ’I’d watch them wherever they play’ drivel.
Away - yes of course, absolutely anywhere (I remember discussing KEIOC WITH KEIOC members at Colraine last year - Blues incidentally who’d made the trip over to Northern Ireland on the 14th of July, to stand in a shed in the pissing rain and watch Everton reserves)
But would you REALLY get a season ticket if we moved to the Hebrides?
Fact - No, you wouldn’t.
"I’d go wherever we play" sounds good but it’s bollocks and you know it.
Where WOULD be too far.
Widnes? Stafford? Leeds? Calais?
NB: Home games are called home games coz you play them at home.
Play them somewhere else and you’re...well the MK Dons.
57 Posted 28/07/2008 at 18:35:06
Milton Keynes is around 55 miles from Wimbledon, the people speak with very different accents, and the two place are not by any definition at all in the same part of the country (South Midlands versus South London).
Kirkby is next door to Walton, the grounds would be 5 miles apart, the area is Merseyside, and the people are all scousers who speak in the same way.
I think your comparison is a bit inaccurate.
58 Posted 28/07/2008 at 18:41:35
Surprise surprise!! Because someone does not agree with your view point they are clearly talking "shite" and are totally wrong. I was a no voter but accept that we all have an entitlement to a view, neither of which can be proved right or wrong. Even if we stay in Liverpool City we may have to look at a site other than Goodison. Say it was in south Liverpool that would actually be further away than Kirkby - would you go or not?? As supporters we are in danger of alienating sections of our support which will help no one in the long run.
59 Posted 28/07/2008 at 19:32:00
60 Posted 28/07/2008 at 19:35:26
61 Posted 28/07/2008 at 20:24:11
ps: What would Dixie, Bally, Labby etc... think????
62 Posted 28/07/2008 at 20:30:14
63 Posted 28/07/2008 at 21:23:41
Personally, I believe KEIOC are best placed to set something like this up... but the negative press from some of their previous attemps at direct action may well preclude that from happening. Who else could take the lead?
64 Posted 28/07/2008 at 22:26:22
It was tried before in Hope Street following PJ?s rule and only a few hundred turned up. Ian McDonald was there and spoke very well and I?m sure he would get a good hearing at the supporters club but I think something more substantial needs to take place.
I liked the idea of white T-shirts for the Blackburn game and we could add white handkerchiefs/scarfs to show a call for a truce in the rush to Kirkby.If that was leaked to the media I"M SURE IT WOULD GET THE MESSAGE HOME TO THE BOARD ABOUT HOW MANY ARE AGAINST KIRKBY.
We need to be aggressive but peaceful and something like the Mexican wave of white might just do it.
65 Posted 28/07/2008 at 23:15:25
66 Posted 29/07/2008 at 07:25:52
Actually I probably would get a season ticket if we moved to the Hebrides. But I have travelled 360 miles every other week of the season for the last 27 years.
Definition of bigotry - narrow mindedness, intolerance - think that pretty much covers your post.
67 Posted 29/07/2008 at 09:20:33
For you (and others like you) ?narrow-mindedness? and ?intolerence? is simply how you describe anyone who disagrees with you and is isn?t prepared to fart-arse around being ?polite? when dealing with such an emotional subject.
I make no apologies to you or anyone else for HOW I make a point (and I DO make a point - always).
You say "Actually I probably would get a season ticket if we moved to the Hebrides". (WHAT a blue!)
Personally, I think that posters who ?debate? like you (ie: say ANYTHING not to concede a point) - are far more offensive than someone using ?rudeness?.
Can I remind you we are talking about Everton FC moving out out of the city that has been home for 130 years.
We are not extras in an episode of Ever Decreasing Circles.
Andrew Myers - They are not talking shite because they disagree with me, they are talking shite because what they are saying ("they?re cutting of their nose to spite their face", "?I? would get a season ticket for the Hedrides") is a load of fucking shite.
(And if you believe them, it is my opinion that you BELIEVE in a load of shite).
68 Posted 29/07/2008 at 10:37:17
It doesn?t matter if the team are in the boundaries of Liverpool, these people love Everton FC not Everton of Liverpool FC. As for Steve Ashton saying he would buy a season ticket if Everton moved to the Hebrides being shite, no offence but asking the question in the first place was shite. Steve travels 360 miles to home games, I travel up from Norfolk, we are both season ticket holders, so to us distance isn?t a problem, and to be honest it doesn?t matter if we are in Liverpool or not, because I too support Everton FC, not Everton of Liverpool.
Now before you get to excited, I voted no to Kirby, and I haven?t renewed my season ticket this year. Why? because I don?t like the way the board are handling things, but as soon as they have gone I will be back, Kirkby or no.
69 Posted 29/07/2008 at 11:47:00
"EJ, people aren?t talking shite when they accuse you of "cutting your nose of to spite your face" they are just looking at things from a different point of view".
Different ’point of view’?
Wrong - it’s actually showing an unwillingness to accept the notion of a ’different point of view’ (I’m NOT saying to agree with that point of view, just to accept the idea).
I said to Steve Ashton, in response to his ’nose claim’.
"You and those who think like you, obviously can?t get it into your heads that for many of us (some of us, a few of us?...whatever) it WON?T be Everton anymore. I?m NOT asking you to agree, I?m simply saying that if you DID see things this way, WHY would you even contemplate going to see a club you DON?T see as Everton?It?s a fairly simple logic to follow"
And it IS.
You either think Everton FC moving to Kirkby doesn’t affect us remaining Evertrton FC (Steve) or you think it does (me).
When I pointed this out, I was not it seems ’expressing my opinion’, I was "cutting off my nose to spite my face".
That in my opinion is talking shite’
(Maybe we need to define ’talking shite")
70 Posted 29/07/2008 at 14:05:57
Your post is a little schizophrenic. You lay into EJ and make a good case of what a loyal fan you are and then conclude your post by stating that you don?t like the way the board are handling things and have not renewed your season ticket. You confuse me!!
I voted no for Kirkby as well and I won?t go to Kirkby if and when we move there but I would not dream of not going to Goodison. You would have a job watching with pride watching people wear Everton shirts around these parts (i.e. in Liverpool) as you would have a job buying one in the City Centre!! as there are few outlets to buy them from. The next time you have a surge of pride when you see the badge have a good look at it, as I am sure you are aware its Prince Rupert?s keep on the badge which is still standing in Everton which is part of Liverpool.
I am very proud of my home City, proud that it is the home of one of England?s most famous football clubs. I am sick of people trying to disassociate Everton FC from the City of Liverpool it is something we should be clinging to not throwing it away casually. We are the original professional club in the City and were lifting a trophy at Anfield before Liverpool FC ever did.
71 Posted 29/07/2008 at 13:58:08
Let me be honest and say that in an ideal world I would love to stay at Goodison - nothing would give me more pleasure. However 27 years ago I had to make a descision to move my family out of Liverpool, it wasn’t an easy descision, to leave somewhere I had lived all my life, but I was pragmatic enough to realise that my family would be better off through making that difficult choice. Some members of my wife’s family never forgave me and haven’t spoken to me since, but in my opinion that is their loss.
The difference I suppose, is that the company I joined did not distort the advantages of moving to persuade me to go.
EJ - It was wrong of me to pretend that if EFC moved to the Hebrides I would still follow them - I wouldn’t because they wouldn’t be EFC - for a start they’d be playing in the SPL. But Kirkby is not the Hebrides.
Even the most blinkered of us could not pretend that in DK we have been deceived left, right and centre by the current administration, but please forgive me when I say that I just cannot understand why someone who obviously has great feeling for the club would completely desert them. And there my friend we will have to agree to differ, because I just cannot get my head around that.
72 Posted 29/07/2008 at 18:57:23
In my own case, as I have tried to explain on many occasions, to many posters on TW, I see it NOT as ME leaving Everton, but EVERTON FC, attempting to leave Evertron FC.
An abstract notion but...there it is.