From the outside it looks good: we have consecutive finishes in Europe; our squad is growing in terms of quality (if not quantity); Finch Farm, our state-of-the-art training facility, has been built from the ground up to meet Moyes demands; our squad has a certain togetherness about it; and we do have a squad that 100% believes in Moyes and wants to play for the royal blue jersey. We would appear to be an attractive proposition for quality players wanting to prove themselves and maybe bask in the glory of qualifying for the Champions League.
Yet if you look deeper we are rotten to the core.
Bill Kenwright for all his romantic views and love of the club is just not able to take us forward. Although at times it's hard to hate Kenwright, he has to accept responsibility for what?s going on behind the scenes.
Our marketing and PR presence is non-existent, we seem to be managed by a bunch of Business Studies graduates from the bank of Enron. Our direction off the field via Kenwright and Wyness lacks direction and focus. If you stand still in football others will pass you. I fear Moyes's hard work will be undone by bad business practice off the park.
Then I log on this morning to find Wyness has jumped ship. Maybe he got a nicer and sunnier retirement role. Or maybe he was sick of wading through the shit that seems to run through Everton at the moment. Wyness to me remains an enigma. Yes he?s a Merc just in it for the money, BUT you could argue that under his reign we have sealed the Chang deal and a move to a new stadium (whether your for or against) has become a reality rather than a complete fucking fantasy (the Kings Dock). His leaving suggests that he wouldn?t have been able to bask in the glory of a new stadium which almost certainly confirms that Destination Kirkby has been called in by the government.
With so much uncertainty at Everton at the moment and a manager that hasn?t even confirmed he?s gonna be here, the stench coming from Goodison can't be good and this may be what convinces players to avoid coming here. With Liverpool soon to desecrate Stanley Park with a 70,000-seater super stadium, no new players in the squad, a manager yet to sign on the dotted line, and players being sold to fund buys, it's not a good time to be an Evertonian.
Who knows maybe Moyes may pull 5 rabbits out of hat and the stadium deal comes off and I would look like your average moaning fan. But this being Everton FC I wouldn?t hold my breath.
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 30/07/2008 at 13:36:24
Off the field we are a mess - from all reports are finances are appalling. We have no apparent marketing and branding strategy. Our chairman is "just a fan" and has no direction for the club and seemingly no knowledge of what is going on.
On the field, we have a paper thin squad, half of which are injured, and haven’t gone close to signing anyone yet.
And now the CEO resigns. Whatever anyone thinks of Wyness and his decisions, losing the CEO at a time like this in the clubs history is another indicator that we are in deep, deep shit.
2 Posted 30/07/2008 at 13:34:52
Two consecutive top six finishes for the first time in twenty years.....
The strongest squad we have had for over twenty years.....
Greater financial stability than for the past decade....
More respect for and acknowledgement of Everton ouside the confines of Goodison than for again probably twenty years ....
Let the bad times roll ... It’s obviously a disaster zone
3 Posted 30/07/2008 at 13:40:58
As for Kenwright. Ok, he isn?t the richest but I refuse to criticise the guy as the leaps Everton have taken under him have been astounding. Not only did he appoint Moyes, but he then didn?t sack him when we finished 17th - I genuninely can?t think of another Chief Exec / Owner / Chairman who?d do the same. That has helped Everton more than purely money ever will aka Newcastle.
We haven?t got much money. I don?t want is to become another Leeds - so it makes sense to wait for the right players to come along. Those who have gone aren?t 1st team players - and aren?t young.
So what's wrong with bringing in some quality (it will happen, we always sign in the end), some unknowns on loan (who was Pienaar this time last year) and prompting some kids. Its a model which is working and for a club like Everton is ideal. This to me suggests the club is absolutely not rotten to the core but nows its limits and is trying to push against every year rather than stupidly over extend itself.
4 Posted 30/07/2008 at 13:50:39
Nail on the head!
It wouldn?t suprise me if most of the things that are wrong, are down to Wyness!
Its a good thing he has gone!
The echo quotes that "SUBSTANTAIL FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE" and with all due respect, they have better inside knowledge than us.
You get the accounts of most of the clubs in the league and they are riddled with debt and all the money hinges on if?s and but?s! Everton are probably one of the more solvent with its assests owned and only minmal debt in comparison.
The squad, though small, is a great squad full of talent and it will be greatly improved before 16th August! Watch!!!!!
We have the best young manager in the game , who has just announced on that his new deal is very close and so are signings.
The the past for seasons back the notion that there is something very right with EFC.
If something is very wrong with Everton FC, its the doom and gloom nut case fans!
5 Posted 30/07/2008 at 13:58:42
6 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:08:42
7 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:09:32
The Premiership is global so any CEO would be able to get a good sponsorship deal. It’s part of their job and companies are falling over themselves to get their name on a shirt. It’s harder not to get a good deal !! King’s Dock was no fantasy. It required less money from the club than the Kirkby Tescodome........
8 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:03:36
I havn’t lost it yet, I am aware that we are still a good proposition for many players (Moutinho seems to mant to come). We do need to close some deals soon though, most prominantly Moyes new contract.
As many have commented, the silence from our club at the mo’ is deafening. How many other clubs are shroud in such cloak and dagger activities every close season? We should be releasing positive cries and marketing our club as a force to be feared in every media outlet possible. Europe twice in a row, should lead to a very decent stab at the top 4 and a trophy.
My message to the club and us fans united together is, lets make some noise about our ambitions for the season, not the introverted festering that is currently plastered across these forums and in the media each day.
9 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:05:33
10 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:15:54
11 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:18:38
Just to correct you it was actually PAUL GREGG who set up the Chang deal not Wyness.
All may not be rosy at board level with EFC but I’m sure Moyes will continue to build on what has been achieved so far and hopefully get better support from a new chairman in the near future.
12 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:26:47
I don?t disagree with you Daniel that things aren?t right behind the scenes.... in particular the whole marketing aspect. That?s got me puzzled....but I tend to worry more about the on-field stuff and today for the first time this summer I?m happy! (And that?s without anything really happening yet... just wait to Moutinho signs, and the other 4 or 5 sign in!!)
13 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:48:13
Moyes is being used as a stooge by BK but that's his own fault. If DM thinks things aren't right at the club he should have the courage to come out and say so and let the fans know what's going on. if Moyes is being denied funds for transfers then come out and say it without all this pontificating about a new contract.
Wyness is gone and good fucking riddance. Let some other muppets put up with his scheming... Things can only get better from now on.
14 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:49:06
Your fourth paragraph contradicts you?re second.
All clubs sell to buy. Just be thankful you?re not an Arsenal fan!
15 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:57:57
16 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:59:38
17 Posted 30/07/2008 at 15:15:07
What happened to his 12 month notice period?
You don?t put your notice in on Sunday evening and 2 days later you are out ? unless there was some major argument behind the scenes. I am glad he has gone, but the timing couldn?t be worse.
I don?t know what sort of answers the EGM will get on Kirkby now ? probably "I don?t know, I am just a fan" by Kenwright. Having listened to Kenwirght at the ESCLA AGM, I can only hope that he is not involved in any transfer negotiations ? incompetence is not a strong enough word to sum him up.
18 Posted 30/07/2008 at 15:26:53
19 Posted 30/07/2008 at 15:33:19
You could argue that any time is a good time for him to go., but the the best time would have been at the end of last season.
We desperately need to sign some new players and I assume that Wyness was central in the negotiations and procedures that need to be done. With him gone, who has the experience to take over this role ? certainly not Kenwright.
Once the transfer window closes then that would also have been a better time for him to go. Like I say, I am not sorry he has gone, but from EFCs point of view the timing is poor!
20 Posted 30/07/2008 at 15:48:25
I understand your point but my point is, if he was/is so useless, would you want him anywhere near any transfer dealings ? I’m not trying to be funny. It just srikes me as odd that, on the one hand he’s useless and good riddance to him, yet on the other it " couldn’t have come at a worse time " ? ?
21 Posted 30/07/2008 at 15:59:22
Look at the facts. Finishes in Europe. A better talented squad. Finch Farm! A good manager, who will probably sign a new contract. There is money for 5-6 new players!
And whether you like it or not, if DK goes through a new stadium.
I don’t what all the bloody whinging is about? You’d have something to moan about if we’d just dropped into the Championship. Get a life and get real!!!!
22 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:04:01
There is a way to conduct business and it is not to wash your dirty linen in Public. Moyes would not be right to come out and say anything that could damage the club image. How would this look to any potential signing? A club in turmoil?
Moyes has his flaws but nobody can argue that he is not a thoroughly professional man of huge integrity.
If there are bigger problems that he knows about he is absolutely right not to come out and make them even worse. #
Think about it rather than just trying to use every opportunity to have a dig at Moyes.
23 Posted 30/07/2008 at 14:03:41
24 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:14:06
or you could just look at the money on offer.No, footballers aren’t bothered by that are they ?
25 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:32:52
26 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:36:28
Spot on, Peter !! For all the badge kissing and statements of "I supported them as a boy" (designed to make the new club feel that a prodigal son is returning and to try to explain to the old club that it was a move from the heart), the player will go where the money is. Usually with the friendly, helpful and impartial advice of their agent. Even if the player is not greedy (as most agents are), most players are not very bright........ to put it mildly :0)
27 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:48:16
Players have a choice these days, as we all do ref where and who we work with - difference is that these guys can pick & choose to a lesser or greater degree than we can. It all boils down to money though at the end of the day, and you can’t blame any of them for wanting the best deal they can get.
28 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:45:41
So you have access to all the accounts do you? you know the exact amounts of debts? repayments etc? Finch farm was built at a cost of £2m so what are we renting exactly?
Bellefield is an asset owned regardless of any credit crunch and Goodison may have a mortgage but dont tell me that the debt secured against it is unmanagable. We don't rent it via its owners, it is ours!
My whole point is, you doom and gloomers want the fucking world.
In comparison with the vast majority of Premier League clubs, our situation is a lot better than theirs and you don't hear them going on like you.
Our playing staff is better too as per the league table!!
There is plenty of things right with Everton but I accept that we are not perfect.
If we where, you would be bored shitless!
29 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:44:24
To further support the point, take the case of Robbie Keane:
" ...back home in Dublin all us kids ever wanted were Liverpool tracksuits.."
Strange that when you consider that he could have signed for them as a teenager! Even stranger when I consider him to be one of the not - so - mercenary kind. Just a point !
30 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:47:56
You might have a point on the money we offer being the main incentive.... if the money Everton offered wasn’t significantly less than the teams we are trying to compete with!
Peter’s point of money being the botom line somewhat missed this obvious caveat completely.
31 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:58:44
the point is-there all mercenaries so you therefore engage them on YOUR terms, not theirs. It SOMETIMES means you don’t get the best but not always ( Okacha or Cahill anyone ? ).But You should always be in control of what you pay unless you’re Newcastle or Leeds etc.
32 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:50:40
Because I am glad he’s gone doesn’t mean I thought he was shite in everything he did at Everton. IMO he fucked up in the following areas:
1) DK (the big one) ? Outright lies about how the stadium will be the best for transport in the NW, if not the country. Plus loads of other sound bites with few to no facts behind them. Also plenty of promises about what will be produced even before the vote was taken (eg transport plan) - never materialised.
2) VillaReal ticket fiasco ? The most ineptly handled match regarding tickets that I have ever known. Even for EFC it was poor. At one stage I thought I was going to miss out on a ticket despite being a season ticket holder (& going to the majority of away games).
3) Misinformation about the cost of season tickets the other year ? widely reported that season tickets had dropped by as much as 10% in all areas. Actually the Park end season tickets had gone up by over 4%.
I am sure there are a lot more incidents. The point is that now we have no idea who is in charge of transfers and whether this will have an impact on how quickly new signings are made. So that is why the timing is bad..
33 Posted 30/07/2008 at 17:22:40
If Wyness has really gone because of an offer form his mate at Mallorca than good ridance.
Dont get me wrong, i understand if he wants to go work with his mate in the sun, but at this juncture the timing is incredably poor so I bid him fuck off!
If you think about our last two major deals, they have reporetedly recouped -now in full- 15m sterling. minus pienaar - 13m cash.
Faddy was sold for 5m (2.5m upfront 2.5m now) and AJ 10,5m now seemingly banked..
so, presumably even worst case scenario they had 10m anyway, meaning Moysie should be looking at 20m ish minimum.
arh fuck im turning into a toffeeweb accountant.
34 Posted 30/07/2008 at 16:39:03
I’d like to argue the toss on so many points, but there is one i’d like to at least start a debate about. Marketing.
Firstly, I’m not a marketing man. But my job does mean I work with marketing at a large business a great deal and often have to re-write what they do so I come from a background of a bit of understanding.
Now, Everton is by any standards a medium sized business at best. Trunover of around £60m, staff in the low hundreds. About the size of a medium sized engeneering firm maybe. For a business that size marketing is a massive overhead. So any marketing activity that is done will always have to be very careful with how the money is spent. Coupled with that we are sharing a city with a club with a turnover maybe 3 or 4 times as big. Liverpool has decided to go for high profile, high visibility marketing. This is expensive and, yes, it makes an impact of sorts, but it is a blunt weapon and there is more then one way to skin a cat. With a smaller budget Everton has to market differently, it has to be more targeted, smarter. An’ here’s the shocker, I think it is. Its website, while not perfect, is better than most PL sites I’ve visited. But the biggest poitive is its clear dedication to youth and grassroots football. In markets like USA and China, where other clubs are marketing themselves as brands, Everton is marketing itself as a football club (radical I know). Developments like TheEvertonWay coaching tool, youth football partnerships with clubs in the US, the "Everton Cup USA" (where the academy took over an under 10s team that won the thing by a cricket score and left everyone open mouthed), football in the community (one of the best in the country) etc. These things are building a really customer base for the long term.
Please don’t be taken in by big posters and high profile campains. They are usually a symptom of a marketing team with too much money and too much freedom.
I’m sure a lot of people won’t agree with me. Maybe I’ll read the responses that next time I feel like rubber necking.
Mark, Proud to be blue.
35 Posted 30/07/2008 at 17:32:31
36 Posted 30/07/2008 at 17:21:29
My own experiences as a supporter of Everton, combined with my pessimism (THAT I WASN’T BORN WITH!) suspects you are right, but ...who knows.
One thing I AM a hundred percent sure of, is that the way PR and communication is handled at Everton IS (DEFINITELY!) a total fucking disgrace.
It’s as if the whole communications side of things is run by Big Brother contestants (the younger, even thicker ones)
Whispers, leaks, lies, bullshit and a kind of leery wilfullness.
The way the club ’communicates’ with the supporters GUARANTEES speculation.
Mostly it will be wide of the mark, occasionally, right on the money.
Either way though, it’s a completely normal human reaction
To expect humans not to speculate is naive.
It’s something we do and something we do more of, the less we know about something.
For Evertonians, that means a LOT of speculating.
37 Posted 30/07/2008 at 18:01:07
I like it and I would also agree with you.
I’m currently watching SOCCER DREAMS over here in the States, excellent idea!
I actually think that in the long term if we are successful our name (fame?) will grow anyway just by virtue of our success.....marketing is one thing but success on the field is an entirely different story.
As we all know the premiership has been dominated by the top four since pretty much it’s inception.........break into that on a regular basis and a lot of problems will be taken care of (extra money, reputation, players wanting to come, fanbase, merchandise sales etc).
38 Posted 30/07/2008 at 18:04:56
Bill Kenwright is an Evertonian. He has done his best for the club, including mortgaging his own home (so I understand) to guarantee to club’s overdraft. It is not his fault that he is not as rich as Abrahamovich or that someone with the Russian’s resources has not stepped up to buy the club from him.
I agree that the commercial side of the club could be improved.
But, if you look at things in the cold light of day, there are many richer clubs whose fortunes on the field are no where near the achievements of Moyes & Co over the last few years.
And hands up those who would want the club to be bought by Americans using a big loan secured on the club and its assets.
39 Posted 30/07/2008 at 18:38:09
I will be very interested to see how much cash on the table we get for AJ.
40 Posted 30/07/2008 at 18:41:39
41 Posted 30/07/2008 at 18:47:18
42 Posted 30/07/2008 at 19:06:23
43 Posted 30/07/2008 at 18:46:16
* no new players when you have publically quoted you need 5-6 and little time to bed in with a few friendlies remianing.
* Selling one of your few remaining strikers to fund new transfers leaving you with just one senior striker.
* Having a decision over a proposed stadium overshadowing your preparation and potentially affecting your spending plans.
* still finalising the details of your contract when you should be focusing on team issues.
* The CEO, who should have a significant involvement in new signings suddenly resigns
couldn’t be better could it!
44 Posted 30/07/2008 at 19:24:15
Seems the main argument for this
a) he didn’t sack Moyes when others might
b) - he’s a fan in case he didn’t mention it.
c) he’s been at the helm during a master-class by Moyes on shoe-string team development and over-achievement
Football club heros are the ones that draw themselves the deepest into the fans’ hearts for their effort and achievement.
Show us Bill’s specific achievement(s)?
45 Posted 30/07/2008 at 18:48:33
I read your post and thought "well thats that then, I’m a soddin pessimist. I take your point about the work that might be going on in China and America and Thailand and maybe it will pay big dividends in years to come.
However, not being a marketing man by any stretch of the imagination, I can only see whats going on here...in my city. Now it may be a clever marketing ploy, not to market yourself in your own town, but to me it is absolutely, fundamentally vital that you raise your profile in order to attract the supporters of the future. Not only that, the tourists who are flooding in weekly to this city, can wander to their hearts content around the centre of our town, without fear of bumping into one solitary emblem of our club, let alone finding a shop that sells club merchandising. The nearest they will get to that, is in a side street in Birkenhead.
I’d have thought that marketing is not just about making money (but wecould do with plenty of that!) It’s about spreading our name. I’d like to see us concentrate a bit more on making sure people coming to this city, know who we are. Sorry about being a pessimist but I think our marketing is awful.
46 Posted 30/07/2008 at 20:00:26
47 Posted 30/07/2008 at 20:13:51
? including mortgaging his own home (so I understand) to guarantee to club?s overdraft?
- well you understand wrong.
He supposedly mortgaged his own home when buying the shares off Johnson.
That’s a hell of a fucking difference!
48 Posted 30/07/2008 at 20:27:26
49 Posted 30/07/2008 at 20:33:01
Up the toffees!
50 Posted 30/07/2008 at 20:25:00
First and foremost, moyesy will sign a new contract. Secondly, the sale of AJ is brilliant buisiness. He works hard, granted, but his not got a good scoring record and apart from his work rate no part of his game is fantastic. To get 12m for him was bloody unbelievable. And on the transfer’s front, is it not possible that he hasnt brought because the players available have not been deemed good enough. I would imagine that we will tie up a deal for moutinho now, who is a fantastic player with bags of potential and i would expect moyesy to bring in another 4 players. Just because he hasnt brought yet, doesnt mean his not going to. ie. Yakubu last year, who we signed on the 29th of august. We also brought baines in after this respective point in the season and secured two players on loan. Everton football club are in the best position we have been in for a very long time, I think your musings re. us stagnating are crazy, moyesy has a solid transfer policy of bringing a few players in who will improve our team, whilst teams around us like tottenham and west ham have over spent on mediocracy and supposed big names. Rather than moan and worry, why not have some patience and trust in moyes. If any manager of late deserves our trust its him, as his completely turned around this team and brought us progress and consistency which we havent enjoyed for 20 years.
51 Posted 30/07/2008 at 21:06:07
52 Posted 31/07/2008 at 04:49:12
53 Posted 31/07/2008 at 04:55:03
Is this the same Bill Kenwright who has not put a penny of his own money INTO the club preferring instead to remortgage GP,Mortgage future gate receipts,sell off Netherton and oversee the signing over of merchandising to JJB.
Is this the same Bill Kenwright who is overseeing 10 million a year operating losses and debts now risen to 66 million and then claims "He doesnt know what’s going on at the club he’s only a fan like us".
Is this the same Bill Kenwright who fucked his the best pal Paul Gregg over so he could retain control of the club by assuring everybody he had 15 million going in the bank in the morning from Fortress sports fund.
Is this the same Bill Kenwright who promised LCC for 2 years that the 30 million for Kings Dock was ringfenced and then blew them off when given a deadline to show them the money.
Is this the same Bill Kenwright who has a dreadful reputation for the way he treats people in the Luvvie world of Theatre.
I wont even go into NTL,Rooney,numerous ticket and travel fiascos and one of the worst marketed clubs in the prem.
Now I suppose that’s not Bill’s fault but he can take praise for appointing Moyes or is there a different Bill Kenwright you know?
54 Posted 31/07/2008 at 05:25:24
55 Posted 31/07/2008 at 11:22:38
However I wouldn’t stop anyone blowing off steam here (or anywhere else).
In fact, for health reasons, I think it should be encouraged.
If we have to be run by inept clowns, better surely to ’get it off your chest’.
The alternative is a club run by bullshitting, hopeless dolts AND a horrible angry rash under our collective chin.
56 Posted 31/07/2008 at 12:38:18
Do any of you understand the concept of inflation...or the fact that inflation in terms of transfer fees has been exponential over the last 5 years?
57 Posted 31/07/2008 at 17:00:07
slow day at work- 'saint bill' is an anagram of "in bits all"!!!
58 Posted 31/07/2008 at 19:08:12