There can be no worse a feeling than having placed all one's trust in a person than to have that trust thrown back in your face as you just have with Mr Wyness. At the time of writing, only you are privy to the stated reasons for his resignation; we are left with, as usual just speculation.
However, whatever emphasis or spin or just plain truth you are left with at the end of the day, it is plain that his decision to go, whilst long overdue in my opinion, was a personal affront to you as Chairman of our great club, with a callous disregard for the club, its future or the fans.
His actions during his tenure have been controversial at best, damming at worst. His timing to go was the mark of the man, without honour, trust or integrity. These have been words that I have used to condemn his actions for the past year in his running of our club. I take no great pleasure in the world seeing him in the same light as I have done for the past 12 months. I only take pleasure in his departure.
Those words, but most critically 'Integrity', have never been more aptly used than today. You entrusted a man whose competence we have questioned with the running of the club. That trust was misplaced.
You're not JUST a fan; you are the Chairman of our club. You have a major responsibility in shaping our future. You may well have believed the business plan put before you or even condoned some of the actions that Mr Wyness took. I hope you see now just why so many of us could not be party to the line he took.
Your own credibility has suffered significantly because of his arrogance and dubious decision-making. You deserve better than what he gave, we deserve better too. There is no doubting that you love the club; there is no doubt that so many of us respect you for helping to turn the club around. But Wyness was the wrong call for so many reasons. He didn?t fit into Everton. To so many of us, he was an arrogant bully.
You have an opportunity to wipe the slate clean, find a new direction, a new, highly competent CEO and most importantly, an opportunity to heal the divisions that have taken the fan base in opposite directions.
The club needs stability, direction, leadership and a business plan that makes sense to all of us. Something we can all believe in. Kirkby does not work for so many and never will, its risk is too high and the questions unanswered remain glaringly obvious as major risks. I urge you to let My Wyness take the plan for Destination Kirkby to Spain or wherever he lands and bury it forever.
You have the chance to step back and build something good for the club. Please, I urge you to do just that, irrespective of any decision regarding Kirkby. Its architect has gone, such was his faith and credibility. How can you possibly justify its pursuit?
Here is your chance to show leadership and pull our club together. Please don?t dither as its failings will be shown on the field as well as off it this season. If you demonstrate a desire to pull the club together, employ an accomplished CEO you will have gone a long way to regain any lost credibility because of Wyness. It would be a great shame to let your name be associated with Wyness for ever more in the archives of our club. You deserve better than that for being the Evertonian you are. But continue with the road Wyness built will bring you to the same end as him.
The fans want you to succeed but have seen the way the club has been run with disquiet. Whose responsibility was that Bill? Why was that allowed to happen? Can you tell us here and now that that will be the last time we ever see the club disown its fans, threaten them with legal action? Ignore their requests? Break our tradition?
You have had to suffer the anger and rebuke from fans who feel rightly aggrieved by the actions undertaken by the management of the club. Many have said it's business, a private business that we have no right to be involved in. But football isn?t just about money, it's about tribal roots, belonging and a sense of fair play. I can?t recall seeing many other companies where its customers hold dear those same qualities. Owning a football club is running a business but also having a social commitment to its lifeblood, the fans. That was something Keith Wyness never had, but something you do understand.
You have a second chance to get it right, do it different. To pull us all in the same direction. We want to get behind the club, not just the team. That takes a big man.
Let's get the ship going in the right direction once again. It's not just up to you. It's up to all of us.
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1 Posted 31/07/2008 at 07:28:16
BK and KW are the architects of the Destination Kirkby project, with KW playing the role of the bovver boy and BK actiing the role as well meaning dithering goodguy.
Each are as culpable for this project as each other
That BK supports and loves the club, unlike KW,whilst laudable is immaterial to the damage he has caused as Chairman in his advocacy of DK.
Any move to back away now from DK and distance himself from his and KW actions over the last couple of years is simply too hard to swallow.
It might be time to go Bill...
2 Posted 31/07/2008 at 07:53:02
3 Posted 31/07/2008 at 08:06:59
This was a hard one to pen, but I am of the belief that if we can lance the boil that is Kirkby, have done with Wyness, we will be a long way down the raod from last week.
The problem is if Bill does not make the call on Kirkby and goes ahead then he deserves whatever he gets. For me he has an opportunity, a second chance that he probably just deserves (just out of sentiment alone), a fresh beginning. We need stability at the club right now and some unity. Kenwright has the opportunity to give it or stuff it all up. If he goes with Kirkby, he makes his bed.
4 Posted 31/07/2008 at 08:12:49
No doubt he will be contacting the Editor post haste to secure your e-mail address and rush off to you an application for the job. Recently you have set yourself up as ?an expert? on all things Everton although in reality you are just another carping critic with the time to disguise your disdain in flowing prose. We are not deceived, madam, and remain confident that our Chairman is more than capable of handling the present ?local difficulty?.
5 Posted 31/07/2008 at 08:47:18
6 Posted 31/07/2008 at 08:44:30
I?d love to think Kenwright could simply pickup the ball and the run the club by himself whilst he searches for a new CEO, however I don?t think he has a clue about running a football club.
Can only hope his mate Phil Green is willing to hand out somemore of that ?free advise? he says he gives to friends.
7 Posted 31/07/2008 at 08:39:50
8 Posted 31/07/2008 at 08:53:38
Mr Dodd, do you oppose any opportunity to heal divisions in this club? Are you actually Ian Ross, and as such, touting propaganda as a wage slave?
9 Posted 31/07/2008 at 09:15:14
1) You write that his decision to go was a personal affront to Kenwright with a callous disregard for the club, its future or the fans.
The point is we just don’t know why he’s gone. The fact that he is not serving any notice period is the most telling fact of all. He has obviously not just left because he has a better job offer. Something major has happened. For all we know, it could have been a big disagreement between Wyness & Kenwright. So maybe Wyness has done the honourable thing by resigning (an oxymoron I know).
2) IMO, you are putting too much faith in Kenwright and ignoring his involvement in the Kirkby project. Wyness may have been the public face, but BK believes in it just as much. If BK is not aware of problems associated with Kirkby then he’s not fit to be chairman anyway.
3) At the ESCLA AGM Kenwrights answers were incompetence personified and mainly involved the one word answer ? MONEY (eg in favour of 39th game). So though I agree with you that football isn’t all about money, our beloved chairman seems to have fallen into the money trap.
10 Posted 31/07/2008 at 09:10:54
I along with many others feel his time is running out. Wyness's departure is only a side order to the main dish. Kenwright must do the decent thing and find somebody else interested and capable of running a football club.
11 Posted 31/07/2008 at 09:13:52
Yes,of course he chose Keith Wyness, and has very little cause for regret on that score. And, in case you?ve forgotten, he also chose David Moyes and as with all his appointments allowed him to get on with the job.
As I say above, I am sure ? with or without Christine?s advice ? he will soon make the right appointment to cover the sad loss of KW.
12 Posted 31/07/2008 at 09:03:50
Well, Kenwright is lucky - he has been given an opportunity to right a wrong.
A chance, Christine, that he doesn?t deserve for the cowardly way he seized upon Kirkby as a short-term way out of a financial mire he has been party to for all his directorial years
Has he got the balls and the sense to take this chance? I wonder
And Richard, think on...your are developing a nasty arrogance to go with your condescension and congenital stupidity
Mind you, with heroes like Wyness and Kenwright, we shouldn?t be surprised. Show some respect, please, for those who view Evertonia without blinkers.
13 Posted 31/07/2008 at 09:21:00
14 Posted 31/07/2008 at 09:36:01
Work now calls!
15 Posted 31/07/2008 at 09:46:06
Anyone who looks at Everton as a well run business at the moment is at best misguided through loyalty to the club. We are a bit of a shambles operationally. Our merchandising is poor, our PR is a disaster and our assets are dwindling.
The handling of the DK debacle, whether you are for it or against it, was shocking business practice. BK and KW lost all credibility with their lies and mishandling of the whole affair. I judge BK on his present business acumen not his past theatrical successes. Like I said originally, I hope that he takes his last chance and goes down in the club’s history as its saviour. I’m just not convinced by him. It wouldn’t do for us all to agree though now would it.
16 Posted 31/07/2008 at 09:49:35
I don?t think Bill Kenwright is Old Nick; he is a very successful theatrical impresario and former actor with a reputation within that business as a crafty, hard-headed negotiator. And, of course, anyone who has the attentions of Jenny Seagrove can?t be all bad. But...being a ?good Blue? isn?t the sole criterion for running our club. He should remember he is holding his position, in trust, on behalf of all of us.
I don?t see your point about being even-handed merely as an intellectual exercise. Without justification, that is pointless. However, scale-balancing is, I?m sure, a worthy profession so good luck in your new career.
17 Posted 31/07/2008 at 10:01:40
You have taken to assume that I am condecending in my attitude and tone. Given your previous stance that does not surprise me.
Contary to most popular posts that want BK to go, I would prefer he gets his house in order, puts behing him the errors of judgement and sorts the mess out.
I believe that may actually be the best way forward for the club at this point in time.
That would of course mean the death knell for Kirkby. Given the choice Mr Dodd what would you rather have, BK or Kirkby?
18 Posted 31/07/2008 at 10:08:03
Doddy are you Ian Ross in disguise? If not then Bill should sack Ian and employ you instead. You are a better apologist (sorry that should have read honest, informed and rational commentator) for all the club?s business than any sports PR person that I?ve ever worked with :0)
19 Posted 31/07/2008 at 09:58:07
Leave the patronising tone out will you Dodd, if comments on the site are too ?anti-establishment? for you then answer them with your own point of view, rather than an attack on a person far more eloquent than you (or I).
Also if your really believe in Bill's ?business acumen? as questioned by Colin Grierson then at least learn to spell ?impresario? when using this as your evidence ? do you actually know what that word means?
My personal point of view is boringly middle of the road, I wish I could be more anti-establishment for you Mr Dodd but on this occasion I really believe it is simply a case of giving Kenwright another chance.
20 Posted 31/07/2008 at 10:52:24
Don’t get touchy!
I’m off on my jollies!
21 Posted 31/07/2008 at 11:00:58
The anti-Kirby, anti-Kenwright, anti-money, anti-whatever takes your fancy pit-bulls will have you, or anyone else deviating from their self-righteous, psuedo-cruadser stance, for lunch.
Christine, why not gather every TW post you have written and send the lot to Tarantino as a draft for ’Kill Bill 3’, surely better use of your time.
22 Posted 31/07/2008 at 10:58:12
"Usted es todo estúpido.
Sr. Wyness sabe lo que él está haciendo.
Él está haciendo un gran trabajo.
23 Posted 31/07/2008 at 10:54:44
Those that criticise BK feel they have good reason to. In doing so they do also forget the good side of the man. As already pointed out, he chose David Moyes, he has overseen our re-emergence as a top 6 club, we have been in Europe 3 seasons out of 4 for the first time in decades.
Bill Kenwright had to find a way out of Everton?s Catch-22 situation. He had to find a CEO to enable us to "move up" the ladder somehow. That had to involve a better stadium. We don?t really have the resources to do it alone, so the Kirkby project was hatched.
FWIW, I am now against Kirkby, having previously been ambivalent. But it is obvious that things don?t add up and it is a credit to the small shareholders that they have got the EGM to try & air all of this to try and improve understanding and hopefully heal the wounds.
You can look at EFC in one of two ways. Some of you keep thinking we are one of the elite and have some sort of right to the best team, stadium etc etc. Whilst some of us think strong coffee is still needed to open people?s eyes. Wake up for Christ sake. Our standing in terms of gates and revenue is on a par with West Ham & Sunderland. What divine right does that give us?
I don?t understand how Tottenham, with their attendances, lack of success both now and in the past (2 titles to our 9) can be valued at 3 or 4 times Everton and turning over much more. On reflection Wyness was wrong for EFC. We should be turning over £100m, not £60m. We have fans worldwide and we serve them as badly as we serve the ones close to home.
A new stadium is needed to vault this beautiful club into the 21st century. I think Kirkby is starting to give off a bad stench, so it should be shelved. but the downside of that is to more or less start all over again. And that, frankly, fucks me off big time. This process started under Agent Johnson and remains no nearer.
Bill Kenwright is a fan and a successful businessman worldwide. He presides over a club that has been transformed from abject shite to CL contenders. We have the youngest, strongest & most valuable squad we have had for decades. He has to contend with the sperm of the devil pissing on his fireworks every season via their membership of the Sky 4 and hoards of Norwegian & Irish fans. And yet, we are not far way now.
I wonder, those of you who think Kenwright, Ross (even Moyes) should follow Wyness out of the door, what exactly do you envisage in their place? Perhaps a fans forum made up of people like you, who feel that you know it all?
Or perhaps Lakshmi Mittal (or unnamed dodgy Russian gas trillionaire) will come along and invest £500m on players, build a 75,000 new stadium on an island in the middle of the Mersey, appoint Gus Hiddink as manager and Richard Branson as CEO?
We can all dream. But some people can also see the harsh realities of life and business. Kenwright has always done his best for Everton. And if it?s a toss-up between him and some faceless Russian or Thai oligarch, give me Kenwright, with all his limitations, any day.
24 Posted 31/07/2008 at 11:21:15
25 Posted 31/07/2008 at 11:10:22
Having read around a few sites and especially the KIEOC site and the infamous Kilfoyle notes, it is plainly obvious that there are bigger forces involved in the situation involving the Everton ground move. If you have an MP running around the Houses of Parliament trying to garner support for what is, in all respects compared to a lot of developments (Grosvenor, and other such developments round the country), a minor development, and claiming the removal of an organisation the size of Everton from HIS constituency would have little or no impact on its local economy, there have to be other forces/interested partys involved!!!
I have no doubt that there is STILL a lot of money to be made from the development of Kirkby, and the repositioning of our great club would benefit the development greatly. Just think, 50k people flooding into the area; 1 in 15 goes into Tesco spends at least £5 plus added to your normal shoppers, you do the maths!!
As much as I like Blue Bill, he has been privy to all the details and machinations that I think have occurred during the debacle that is Destination Kirkby; if not then he is in serious remit of his duty?s as chairman, and the same applies to KW.
Let's also not forget a quote from Blue Bill himself: "People told me I must be mad to mortgage all I own to buy Everton."
As much as he undoubtedly loves the club and if he is in as deep as he says, then I am pretty sure he will be looking after his own interests above that of Everton: this is only natural. What I would like to know is who are "the shakers and movers" behind the scenes???
26 Posted 31/07/2008 at 12:33:42
He stated that Robert Earl and Phillip Green are running the club and Kenwright is basically their "puppet". Wyness it threatening to make everything public unless he gets some kind of pay off.
They are expecting that EFC will give KW what he wants to keep him quiet so I would a standard "I?d like to thank everyone at the club...." statement.
27 Posted 31/07/2008 at 12:48:27
perhaps your source should also have told you that Robert Earl is a directorof the club!
28 Posted 31/07/2008 at 12:51:45
I?m obviously aware of that. The point is that BK is NOT running the club!
29 Posted 31/07/2008 at 12:54:50
so surely that will please most of the posters on this site
30 Posted 31/07/2008 at 12:55:48
I can’t help feeling you’re exhibiting more than a tendency to naiveity in the above article - something which you’ve never succumbed to before.
If anything thinks Kenwright was not the force behind all of Wyness’s actions then they are living in cloud cuckoo. Kenwright is the real villian here.
31 Posted 31/07/2008 at 13:01:37
Your argument is extremely well presented however, as I actually back the kirby move, I don't think that the fact Wyness has gone should lead to abbandoning DK. We voted, I voted, my vote was Yes and the overall vote was Yes. There are a lot of people who don't agree with this and I understand that and sympathise. I just think that it is an opportunity to move Everton forward.
I also think that Bill Kenwright will use it to sell the club as no-one will buy us while we are at Goodison Park.... or rather no-one with the collateral needed.
I really do think that allowing the board to do its job is probably the best thing at the moment and allow them to live or die by their decisions. They are the management, they know what is actually going on. We will find out when it happens...
32 Posted 31/07/2008 at 12:59:32
Perhaps you?d do well to avoid the pejorative references to other teams having Irish fans...especially considering the ancestry of the name ?Kirwin?.
Not all Evertonians are from Liverpool... and certainly not all Liverpudlians are native!
33 Posted 31/07/2008 at 13:13:58
34 Posted 31/07/2008 at 13:24:37
35 Posted 31/07/2008 at 13:15:01
So because KW leaves and takes a better job in the sun that means a success to the KEIOC and No voters? The fact that you all have personally attacked him at every opportunity and posted libellous comments on several sites might mean he has moved on because basically it?s not worth the effort or pain? Well if that is the case then we have no chance of getting a top class CEO to live up to everybody?s expectations. What CEO follows the minority of fans? Because that is what you are all asking him to do, me and others voted Yes for the Stadium move and believe it or not we are the majority who bothered to vote. I?m not a fan of KW but whoever you put in that position with the current changes ahead you will all vilify the person, that is guaranteed!!
36 Posted 31/07/2008 at 13:41:49
The guy has painted himself into a corner, if he pulls out of this, no council will ever deal with him again - how many can he piss off?
Our only hope is a call in.
37 Posted 31/07/2008 at 14:00:23
In case you didnt know we’re all liable for our own comments on here even you.
You didnt by chance mean Libel did you?
I suppose the 20% of shareholders who have forced and EGM because they’re not happy with the way the club is being run are in a minority too eh?
May I also point out that the reason Wyness and Kenwright get attacked so much on here is that we care about the club and we’re not happy about the way it is being run or not run as the case may be.
For a Chairman to come to a fan’s forum and declare "HE doesnt know what’s going on he’s only the chairman" and for the Chief executive to say "We’ve had no offers from Fulham for Johnson" and within 24 hours we find that Johnson’s sale was agreed with Fulham is nothing short of a shambles and if you’re happy with the Pantomine that is Everton’s boardroom I pity you and the rest of "the majority".
38 Posted 31/07/2008 at 14:09:34
If you're not telling people to stop going to the match, you're telling them to stop posting.
Trust me, the overwhelming majority would choose to read an article of Christine?s, over one of your posts, all day.
39 Posted 31/07/2008 at 14:27:22
So why Christine are you so kind to this man BK who would be treated like a leper if he where chairman of any other big Premier League club? The man's a Grade A Shithouse in my book and doesn't have the money or the balls to be the main man at this club. So here is my open letter to BK.
Bill, Fuck Off now, you slippery Bastard. You're skint and you haven't got a clue what you are doing or where we are headed. Sell up and get the Fuck out of town. you no mark.
40 Posted 31/07/2008 at 14:38:54
’Something wicked this way comes’
Doddy, Alan Willo...tell us again that we’ve nowt to worry about
41 Posted 31/07/2008 at 14:42:27
Your rebuking of Christine may have carried a modicum of weight, had it not been premised upon an laughable piece of guesswork..
Wyness may have left for a ’job in the sun’ ...but you nor anyone else on this forum know that to be the case at this stage...
Get your own postings in order before criticising anyones else’s.
42 Posted 31/07/2008 at 15:46:45
That was till I realized I?d never seen him and Doddy in the same place at the same time.....mystery solved :)
I?ve a strong suspicion that things aren?t as bad as many people believe as regards money etc, but it's worrying all the same that we seem to have a chairman in charge who, for all his good intentions, appears clueless.
43 Posted 31/07/2008 at 16:12:33
as always its a pleasure reading your lyrics even if they arent exactly English prose - more Scouse to the point - but absolutely spot on.
This lying cheating Charlatan has had it too good for too long because of the Rooney money and the team’s success on the pitch.
Now the pigeons are coming home to roost there’s only one head they can shit on.
44 Posted 31/07/2008 at 16:03:43
45 Posted 31/07/2008 at 16:30:03
Even when we do buy someone with more borrowed money, enough damage has already been done at the club. We should've had a mellow progressive pre-season to capitalize on last season, bedding people in, yet all we have had is fiasco after fiasco making the whole club unstable, but yet the usual suspects come on here shouting everything is fine ? well wake up! It?s not!!!
46 Posted 31/07/2008 at 16:47:25
you have the floor....
47 Posted 31/07/2008 at 17:47:02
48 Posted 31/07/2008 at 17:45:00
49 Posted 31/07/2008 at 18:21:05
50 Posted 31/07/2008 at 18:51:23
Let’s change our motto to the one you appear happy to lve by:
?Ad mediocritatem contendere?.
51 Posted 31/07/2008 at 19:06:21
Is it shameful what he says or just plain honesty?
I still think we are a big club but we need new income streams or a sugar daddy(or mummy!).
The potential new income stream is DK, any other ideas?
52 Posted 31/07/2008 at 19:14:21
How will moving from a vibrant city to a mid-range stadium on a retail park in a small town, with poor transport access, costing a minimum, borrowed £78 million (plus accrued interest) with a complete embargo on non-football cash-raising events create new income streams?
Who told you that? Do you believe them? What’s their track-record for truth like?
If you were a neutral, entertaining clients to a corporate jolly in the North West where would you take them ...Old Trafford, New Anfield or Kirkby?
And, once again, it’s not up to the fans to provide alternatives; that’s the duty and responsibility of our dwindling Board
53 Posted 31/07/2008 at 19:35:19
It is obvious the club, in its present state has almost reached the limit as far as finance is concerned. Goodison only just covers the players wages, we are struggling to get money into the club......we are forever in the shadow of the rs!
and we will be even more when their carbuncle is built. DK is the cheapest and most cost efficient option that the club have. As far as tourists/corporates are concerned, will they come to a new Everton stadia....of couse they will, it is only a few miles away from the city centre of Liverpool. They will be driven...as they are now!
DK gives us a chance to develop and look forward, I don’t feel there are any plausible alternatives....we just cannot afford them!
PS don’t believe the doom merchants....it will be a maximum 78 million!, and the mid range is related to the stadium capacity which can be increased by a simple variation through the usual council channels!
I’ll have the fact that the city centre is vibrant ....but the area around Goodison?, there is only one reason why people visti there , and that is the ground. The same will apply to DK.
54 Posted 31/07/2008 at 20:13:34
Once again we’ll have to disagree and let history be the judge. I fully understand the reality of our status as a fallen power but will never accept the current mediocrity as our lot
Kirkby will be no panacea for the ills that have bedevilled our club for years - moving there will not suddenly transform our shambles of a commercial dept to a professional outfit; grab back our outsourced facilities; produce top-of-the-range sponsoship deals; replace the current PR under-achievers with top-class visionaries; expand our fan base; spread our net and set up EFC stores in, e.g., Warrington, Chester or, dare I say it, Liverpool
55 Posted 31/07/2008 at 20:53:19
I feel any collaboration with Tesco has to be positive, possibly a masterstroke, this has to be a positive.
DK will give us an excellent stadia with increased corporate facilities that we, as a concession to the local council have to allow them minimal use of the facilities!
The JJB deal was agreed after many years of making no money on merchantising...at least we get a lump sum from them to the tune of a couple of mill a year.
The Chang deal.... not the best in monetary sense.... but is it good re Far East exposure?
Re the JJB deal, I agree it is not ideal but it runs out soon....
So, financially for our great club, if agreed by the government, DK has got to be good, it will ...as I see it, move us forwards, it is potentially a great opportunity, almost a rebranding.
Our heart will still be in the city with the community schemes etc, it?s just that we will play in a brand new stadia slightly outside the existing city boundary!
I hope, as you do that whatever the outcome history looks favourably upon us, we are due some fortune and may I say luck!
56 Posted 31/07/2008 at 21:28:42
As I say, let’s wait and see
57 Posted 31/07/2008 at 21:32:02
Why blind?...... I?ve got my opinion, you?ve got yours! And there was me thinking we were having an intelligent discussion without name calling!...
As the great bard said... no need!
58 Posted 31/07/2008 at 23:40:58
Once a blue, always a blue (even if it kills me)
59 Posted 31/07/2008 at 23:46:05
60 Posted 01/08/2008 at 00:13:03
Whatever is being said, I suspect that Wyness’s departure does suggest that DK has had it. Those who think that losing this opportunity (where are the others?) will put us somehow in a stronger position - dream on! We will still have to find a new ground and a new owner - but now we definitely won’t be able to afford the first and won’t be attractive to the second.
But at least for a while some of you can still keep pretending that we are back in the mid eighties and are still one of the country’s richest clubs. Simply getting rid of Bill (for who exactly?) will not transform our fundamentally weak situation, and those of you who think it will are sadly deluding yourselves.
61 Posted 01/08/2008 at 01:19:57
DK was fundamentally flawed take away the subsidy and there was nothing else to recommend it. There was no business plan in Kirkby, just as there is no business plan now.
Is it too much too ask that the club has a business plan? That is all that is required, alas this is beyond the current custodians of the club.
62 Posted 01/08/2008 at 06:53:59
63 Posted 01/08/2008 at 09:45:14
Our Doddy pulling a class bird ? How would he find the time when he’s always defending the honour of the club and all its employees.....
64 Posted 01/08/2008 at 10:13:06
Sorry..didn’t mean to be offensive
We’ve got bigger concerns than Kirkby at present.
My rejoinder was merely shorthand for:
I disagree, I think you’re wrong and your arguments do not convince me, we can only judge with hindsight
As a great Ulverston man once said ’You can take a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead’
65 Posted 01/08/2008 at 11:50:02
Any new stadium would require an enabler, but no new ground does not mean no new owner.
66 Posted 01/08/2008 at 12:42:28
67 Posted 01/08/2008 at 16:38:38
Dont you guys realise that income has declined under BK at a time when most other clubs income has gone up.
Add to that he has mortgaged practically everything so our interest bill has gone up exponentially.
Furthermore it is rumoured that the franchising out of the licences for merchandising and catering was all paid up front 2 years ago and there is no more income from that.
THAT IS WHY WE ARE IN THE SHIT - IT’S GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH GP FALLING DOWN!!
BK’s regime has quite frankly been the most incompetent disastrous period of directorship in Everton history and Rooney’s money and Moyes’s success have only papered over the cracks.
Kirkby is no panacea for income it was only ever an opportunity for Bill and his buddies to cash in big time.
What BK supporter can honestly say that with a close to 10 million a year interest bill it would generate more income than GP.
Can I also ask with a similar amount spent at GP which would in your opinions yield the greater increase in income and why?
68 Posted 01/08/2008 at 17:31:39
For example, you have never explained or given one shred of evidence to explain how Kirkby enables "Bill and his buddies to cash in big time". How does this actually work since you think Kirkby will be a financial disaster for the club? Would you like to explain it now?
On Kirkby generating more income than redeveloping GP. Here’s the simple answer. Redeveloping GP properly won’t take much less if anything at all than Kirkby. A new stadium like Kirkby will of course be completely optimised to generate more revenue. GP can never be - it can only be a ’make do and mend’ fix.
Finally, securing DK is quite likely to secure a new owner - if anything is. Rebuilding GP won’t. If it was so attractive financially to do it - someone would have bought us already and they would already be half way through. Like it or lump it, you are actually more likely to see the back of Bill if DK comes through.
I appreciate all your frustrations with Bill. I agree for example that the merchandising has been a relative failure. All the caterwauling about ’sellling all the assets’ is a bit ignorant unfortunately. And I simply do not agree that throwing away the Kirkby opportunity is a good idea. Indeed, I believe it is very likely that we will rue the day that we did not press forward with it. We do not have any other good options that we can afford. It is that simple.
Finally finally - us DK supporters are just as passionate as you are Jay! You fear very much what will happen to our club if DK goes ahead. Believe me - I fear just as much what will happen if we don’t get it. I dread Kirkby getting called in because I believe it will mark a very bad day in our club’s history. I wouldn’t spend so much of my time posting on this site if I didn’t fear it so much!
69 Posted 01/08/2008 at 18:20:47
Neil, it was supposed to be but in the final proposal it clearly isn’t optimised for anything.
Kirkby was sold on the basis of increased revenue — almost immediate revenue because it was going to be "effectively free" — and a multitude of other revenue-generating non-football activities, e.g. concerts, corporate events, hotels, bars, etc, all either benefiting Everton or linked directly to the stadium.
It’s now clear from the planning application that none of this has come to fruition. As with the entire stadium proposal, it has been stripped and whittled down to be merely a 50,000 stadium built as cheaply as possible with a basic fit-out.
Apart from a lack of disruption to attendance during construction (and, arguably, a quicker route to Kenwright selling up), there doesn’t now appear to be anything on offer in Kirkby that wouldn’t be attainable at a redeveloped Goodison Park. New food outlets, better facilities, more corporate boxes, no obstructed views... all would be core to a redevelopment initiative on the current site.
Both now entail the club taking on more debt but with Goodison it could be phased and therefore more manageable. Newcastle, Villa and Manchester United all did it and so can we.
70 Posted 01/08/2008 at 18:34:23
Well that’s a relief !! We all know that Bill works 24/7 for the cause but at least when somebody claims from a reliable source that there will be news in 48 hours we will be reassured that there have been 48 attempts to resolve our fears :0)
71 Posted 01/08/2008 at 18:43:04
No probs, we both are after the same thing....we just have different viewpoints!
The obvious advantage to DK is value for money, I cannot imagine a comparible scheme at such a low cost.
With regards to rebuilding Goodison, has anybody properly costed it?, I don’t think so!, would a rebuild of Goodison keep the ’atmosphere’, well no...it will be all new, just like DK!. So other than location which of course is the bugbear ,DK will be cheaper and great value for money, which is the reason we may be going there.
Surely it’s all down to money, and the money we will save. I will reitterate that if this project was within the existing city boundary then the vast majority of the no voters would be happy, it’s the stigma of leaving the ’existing’ city boundary that is the problem.
With regards to Villa, Newcastle et al, all their footprints are far better than ours and they progresed their stadiums when planning restrictions were far easier, houses and land cheaper and steel much much cheaper. Redevelopment would be an expensive option.
Re the capacity at DK. There is a process called a variation to extend the licensed area. An esy application to make and increase capacity.
Has our club got the time, bearing in mind our relatively poor income streams to sit on our hands and develop slowly, unfortunately I feel this time could well and truly have passed us by!
72 Posted 01/08/2008 at 19:12:18
On the cost side, whether or not Kirkby is "effectively free" is not the important issue (except as relating to foolish exaggeration by our departed CEO). The important issue is whether Kirkby is cheaper for us than other new build options (and perhaps even cheaper than redeveloping GP for the reasons Colin gives). Versus new build I reiterate that it is extremely unlikely that we could ever find such a financially attractive deal. No one on this site in the whole of the last year has ever come close to explaining how any other new build option would be better in this regard than Kirkby.
On the revenue side, I do not agree that Kirkby will be identical even under current plans to a redeveloped GP (unless you are talking about such a massive GP redevelopment that it would almost certainly be MORE expensive than Kirkby). Even within current Kirkby constraints, it is obviously easier to build for maximum revenue than under the much larger constraints that GP would represent. Also, I believe like Colin that it will be quite likely over time that a number of the constraints on capacity, concerts etc. will be lifted as the stadium beds down.
73 Posted 01/08/2008 at 20:26:07
With that not being the case and the club now having to borrow heavily to pay for an entirely new stadium in one go, there won’t be any revenue coming into the club from the stadium for many, many years.
Phased redevelopment at least allows us to do it piecemeal over a number of seasons and keep the debt manageable. Construction costs as they relate to steel prices, etc, will be same in either case.
If Goodison is redeveloped to the same capacity as that planned in Kirkby, I can’t see how the latter will produce more revenue than the former, particularly as we don’t know what attendance levels will be in Kirkby. At least at Goodison you can almost guarantee they won’t go down through people "voting with their feet" in opposition.
74 Posted 01/08/2008 at 20:47:08
I feel the club is damned if it does and damned if it don’t!
Whatever we do, we will have to borrow, DK will cost us the least, probably by fa huge amount of money which does equate to a great deal.
I agree with you that a redeveloped Goodison will potentially produce the same funds as DK, but how much will it cost and how long will it take?
DK will give a potential income stream far sooner.
It really is a heart against head decision, I feel DK gives us more chance to inrease income streams at the minimal cost.
75 Posted 01/08/2008 at 20:12:22
Neil/ Colin, the Dk issue has split the fans. Many believe it will be a great move, many believe it will spell disaster to move. Whether the money is there or not, who knows.
Those who have put forward posts suggesting that Goodison Park can be redeveloped have, imo, been reasonable and feasible at least to me they do.
The trouble is for me, that we were told that there is no alternative to Kirkby, or no plan B. If Mr Kenwright (or K Wyness when he was here) had come to the fans and told us,in detail, why GP couldn’t be redeveloped (remember, he was the one who said he didn’t want to leave.) If he had been prepared to look seriously at what options were available and explained each one to the fans, then maybe there wouldn’t be so many who believe he has just picked Kirkby and said "sod the rest"
Until, or if, he ever does that, we will remain split imho. Christine has written an open letter, which I think is good call to the Chairman to heal the rift. He could take a step along that way by setting out the pros and cons of each option.
76 Posted 01/08/2008 at 21:51:02
Christine always puts a great emotive post forward, however......unfortunately it is all about money.
I have been informed that the club looked at many other sites, but none were suitable or offered by LCC(bearing in mind we need a partner to help with the cost!).
I agree the pr from the club, particularly from kw was poor, sometimes ridiculous at times but this should not detract from the fact that DK is a good stadium at a great price.
77 Posted 02/08/2008 at 14:49:43
If you cast your mind back not so long ago before BK took over we were in Shit Street, chronic on the pitch and being run by a red amongst other things. When the Duncan saga saw PJ off and BK took over I for one was very pleased, not only to get rid of Johnson but to have a chairman who actually supports the club he owns, pretty rare in these days of gazillionaire Russians etc.
Anyway my point is, here is a man who has broke our transfer records season after season and has backed Moyes when people on here where calling for his head, he is after all the 3rd longest serving manager in the prem. All of a sudden everyone hates BK; he might not have the huge amounts of cash but what he has he puts into the club. Forget about Kirkby for a moment, If you were to win a treble rollover on the lottery would you be offering your cash for new players, I doubt it.
So Bill just in case you ever come on this site and read all the negative crap, there is a least one lifelong blue who is behind you. Keep the faith.
78 Posted 05/08/2008 at 21:40:21
Would a fan walk away from his/her club with millions of pounds of profit tucked in their arse pocket? It?s apparent the ones who would...