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Desperate Dave?

By Brian  Noble :  31/07/2008 :  Comments (40) :
I make no apology for saying I took longer than most to be won over by David Moyes. In spite of his relative success, I considered him to be intransigent, dour and defensive and whilst, at times, he still shows those traits, I have come to accept him as a very good manager of our club.

Unfortunately, Everton have always found it hard to build on success: Catterick couldn`t wait to break up his glorious 69-70 Champions; fate intervened when Kendall brought us to the tip of greatness in the next decade; and now it seems that poverty and politics will frustrate the dream once more. Now I don`t give a damn that Wyness has done a runner ? he has never been right for our club ? but what does bother me is the reason behind it.

Yesterday we were treated to a host of theories ? most of them related to the fate of DK ? but what did ring a bell for me was the `insider` who indicated that Wyness had found it just impossible to come up with the £30M The Chairman had promised Davey for transfers.

Now if you monitor every quote from the manager in recent days you will find him repeating ad nauseam that we DESPERATELY NEED FIVE OR SIX QUALITY PLAYERS. He said it yet again only last night! Usually, at this time of year, it`s us, the ignorant supporters, who are making the call but this time it`s the man himself ? over and over again.

So are us long-termers to be frustrated yet again? Will all the political crap that surrounds DK and the inability of the Board to secure further lines of credit prevent the manager from `taking us to the next level`?

You wouldn`t bet against it, would you?

Reader Comments

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Dave Lynch
1   Posted 31/07/2008 at 14:24:38

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As usual Brian.
A well thought out and probably true interpretation of what has really gone, and is going on behind the scenes.
It is indeed a worrying time and those that are advocating not to push the panic button really should start to question the dynamics at the club.
Steve Taylor
2   Posted 31/07/2008 at 14:40:39

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Moyes comments today (when he was obviously angry after a poor defeat) spoke volumes - his mask slipped & the frustration was obvious - describing us as being in a "poor, poor, situation going forward" is IMO much nearer the mark than the smoke & mirrors spin that was put out yesterday.

Wyness’s reasons for leaving will come out & I’m with Brian - I’m convinced it will turn out to be related to transfer funds. Bully Beef was left with the job of keeping the promises that BK had made to Moyes IMO & by the lack of activity, it appears he failed.

Phil Bellis
3   Posted 31/07/2008 at 15:04:06

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I’m presuming that if (big IF) Kirkby gets the go-ahead that the club has got the required £78-130 mill promised and/or available
I also presume that this cash can only be used for Kirkby
What an irony if we can’t buy players and, heaven forbid, Moyesey goes while the cash sits in the safe
Jay Harris
4   Posted 31/07/2008 at 15:22:39

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Phil
I wouldnt bet there’s any money in the safe more like unpaid bills.

The only logic for Kirkby was that it would enable a large borrowing (some of which)I would guess could be spent on players but then we end up doing a Leeds because when the bank come calling for the interest the only way we have of paying them is to SELL those same players.

There are only 2 answers IMO.

1.Pray that we get into the CL

2. Get a Rich benefactor/Investor in.

Medium to Long term we should get much more from the commercial side once we start to run it properly and once we replace Ian Ross the PR and branding should improve too.

Martin Hughes
5   Posted 31/07/2008 at 16:06:34

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Bet DM goes inside the next two weeks, due to the lack of money he was promised,

Come on, Bill, publicly state that EFC is now up for sale ? sorry mate, but your time is up!
Phil Belllis
6   Posted 31/07/2008 at 15:51:56

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Jay, thanks
Spot on about the (lack of) marketing skills. I’ve had manufactured, privately, high quality EFC-related goods, collectibles, accessories etc which the club could readily do.
They are not interested; they’ve no idea of what makes the average Blue tick
I’m not talking about the usual crap plasticy things, baby bibs et al but, e.g. replicas of the open top bus in 1906/33, the double-decker in 66, the ’Everton’ steam locomotive, gold pendants and tie pins, a silk scroll of ’Everton Firsts’
Note that they’ve done buggar-all to commemorate Dixie’s 60 anniversary this year; the Post Office did a professional job in 1996 when the ’heroes’’ goods were produced for the Euros
Our commercial side appears to be run amateurishly by amateurs - how about some imagination...a glass-encased hologram portrait of Dixie; 3-D pictures of the famous 3rd goal
Wasted opportunities
Paul Gladwell
7   Posted 31/07/2008 at 16:41:53

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it?s so simple Phil, yet not for the so-called business men running the club.
You can buy a replica of the Dixie statue in the Echo off Mersey Transport or some other company, but nothing like that off the club, just bibs and dummies....... clueless.
Dylan Davies
8   Posted 31/07/2008 at 16:43:39

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Getting a bit worried about all these revelations in the past few days. tensions are obiously high among the hierarchy behind closed doors. Moyes should have signed this new contract by now, he has been talkingabout signing it for long enough. The new ground was key to anything and I bet you they were banking on that windfall for funds. It hasn’t happened and so there is nothing in the warchest
David Kiely
9   Posted 31/07/2008 at 16:40:41

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How the lad from the Boys Pen continually pulls off his Houdini act is beyond me. By rights he should be pitchforked out as the man who has split the club from top to bottom. David Moyes’ comments last night was further indication - if any were needed - that Kenwright and his backers’ plans for the club have stopped all onfield forward momentum built up by Moyes in its tracks.

I think the only silver lining is that a mood is building amongst supporters that Kenwright is the root of all our problems. If, as I’d expect, DK is derailed by a call in, any attempt by the club to fight on through an enquiry will be met by an outcry.

I look forward to the day Bill Kenwright goes back to just doing what he does with moderate success: putting on a song and dance show for the punters.
Liam Young
10   Posted 31/07/2008 at 17:18:22

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If you take a look at the teams around us from last season, all of them are building, spending money on decent players. If we cannot financially survive with these clubs and get players in ourselves, were in BIG trouble. I feel sorry for Moyes, he goes through a lot mroe than he should be going through. The man is one of the best in the business, but our chairman hasn?t got the money, we need new investors and quick.

It?s the start of August tomorrow, and all we have done so far is get rid of Carsley and Johnson, none were in Moyes's control, it?s a shame that after all the building we have done every season, the progress we made, could all come tumbling down unless we are more financially secure. It?s a cut-throat world football, because it's a business world.
Everybody at Everton deserves better than this, I just hope Moutinho, and a few more come in to ease the pressures.

Steve Smith
11   Posted 31/07/2008 at 17:10:40

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Some of you are being selective about what Moyes actually said, along with being desperate to sign players moyes has said money is and always was available, but he’s not prepared to spend it on second rate players. Bill Kenwright is not the root of our problems, he may well be compounding them in some peoples eyes, but the problems existed before Kenwright took over, and it’s been a long road back to stability. Everyone and his dog knew Kenwright had no money but he was and still is it seems, the only person who wants to be in charge of Everton Football Club. Don’t for one minute think that if some mega-rich {insert nationaliity here} takes over, he’s doing it because he loves the club, it will be because an avenue exists {or at least he hopes it does} where lots of cash can be made.
Stuart Duncan
12   Posted 31/07/2008 at 17:33:32

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Let’s face it, if there was a mega-rich potential buyer for Everton FC out there last year (and I doubt that there was) there certainly isn’t one now. Recession is knocking on the door and anyone with big money will sit on it now waiting for prices to drop.

We’re going to struggle. I think Moyes will stick with it, but we are headed for hard times. Having said that, no other team seems to be splashing out right now. Yes, we’re the last ones to buy anyone, but there’s few deals going through.
John Charles
13   Posted 31/07/2008 at 17:43:03

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Not saying I am right here.. but doesnt moving to Kirkby significantly increase the chances of an outside investor and thus gets rid of Kenwright thus keeps Moyes and equals progresss??????????????????????????????????????????????????
S Kinnair
14   Posted 31/07/2008 at 17:45:06

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It looks more and more likely Moyes will quit once back in the UK.... thats the rumour going around on all the forums at the moment. Not sure who to believe but I’m sure the rumour has got back to the boys in the squad, which is worrying me to death....!!!
Steve Smith
15   Posted 31/07/2008 at 17:52:45

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John Charles:
As far as investment is concerned I agree that moving to Kirkby probably would makes us a more attractive proposition for our plethora of waiting investors. The problem is that it seems the only person still behind the move {to Kirkby} is BK and a few councillors in Kirkby.
John Charles
16   Posted 31/07/2008 at 18:22:59

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Yeah Steve Smith... I mean I voted for kirkby but if we have to stay at goodison a big part of me would be happy...my mian concern though is progress and it really does seem to me if we want to progress as a club we have to go to kirkby and need a yes decision.

I mean I am a rationale blue, but even i have to admit right now we are in serious serious need of some leadership from the top, the time so procrastination and spin has long gone... the most important thing is supporting the manager in ther transfer market and thus having him sig his contract.

The whole thing right now is shambolic. Are we really going to start a 60 game season with one striker????????????????????

I’m pissed off, here we are/were on the brink of some really achievements (casts yourn minds back to the performances of Fiorentina home, sunderland home, brann home etc etc) and now its all falling apart.

A week is a long time in football but this is a big week for EFC.

Sign Moutinho and maybe it gives the right signals to other players we are on the up going places.

Sit still again and we are going to dedline day to pay inflated prices for average players - at best.

Bill - pull your finger out.
Joey Delahunt
17   Posted 31/07/2008 at 18:33:42

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IF & only IF the rumours are true & Phillip Green has closed his chequebook & called in his massive loans. It is a possibility that we may lose DM, but even he is asking for £65.000 per week! If he has to go lets have Joe Royle back & let the EGM sort out BK who is totally responsible for the running of our club. We have no investment because this man will not sell & if it is true his best mate who has switched his favours to Spurs has pulled the plug than BK is totally responsible for bad management! Loans off best mate is not investment our great club needs proper investment i.e. sell up & let your toy train set go you are & must know you are ruining EFC!. A new Chairman is needed & Joe Royle if DM moves on!
Paul McCann
18   Posted 31/07/2008 at 18:42:56

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David Kiely,

’I look forward to the day Bill Kenwright goes back to just doing what he does with moderate success: putting on a song and dance show for the punters’.

I would say that the last few weeks have been his most successful run for a while.

If Moyes does go we will have passed up the best opportunity this club has had in twenty years. The facts are that every single English Football Club with any real scope for major expansion and success have been taken over in the past few years with the exception of one. Why? The board’s mismanagement of the stadium issue since Kenwright bought the club [the guts of a decade, and a board member before that].
Absolutely disgusted.
Trevor Lynes
19   Posted 31/07/2008 at 18:48:35

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I reckon that since DM has been manager he has covered for the board by making quotes like "Only wanting quality" how then was Beattie signed when he was on the bench at Southampton...or Gravesen brought back or Weir and ferguson given contract extensions when they were obviously too old and slow for the premier. A couple of years ago we had a very old squad..now happily its much younger...BUT DM has probably been excused any future slides by the team so long as he stays in charge. He is probably under much less pressure than most other club managers with more ambitious plans. I am sick and tired of the proposed ground move and the only thing that matters is the TEAM....that is the only thing that keeps the clubs ’life blood’ (the fans) attending in their droves and travelling everywhere to support EFC. My God..if we had a really good side like we had in the distant past..the fans would be only getting what they deserve. DM has only now...for the first time in public..voiced fears that every fan has suffered ever since the transfer window opened. Watching the days pass without any real move to address the problems is like chinese water torture...Please, please, forget the ground move/or not and lets get the basics sorted...on the pitch !!
Sid Logan
20   Posted 31/07/2008 at 19:31:25

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Being an Evertonian is becoming increasingly depressing these days. It would seem that just about every man and his dog could run EFC better than the people paid to do it. Apparently every statement from the Club is a lie, every proposal a plot! We?ve had comments from self styled ?retail experts? analysing the Kirkby proposal and explaining that the numbers don?t add up!

When I was a snotty-nosed kid who used to use the doors in Goodison Avenue as goals when we had a kick about in the street, I had clearly failed to realise that the heartbeat of the football club wasn?t the fans and the team ? united as one, wherever they are, the minute the ball smashes the back of the net ? but rather was a tatty old building just up the road from where I used to mind cars on a match day (before I was allowed to go to the game).

Presumably, to the delight of all, Keith Wyness has fulfilled the fans wishes and taken a hike. Bill Kenwright is told to go and do what he does best ? as long as it?s nothing to do with EFC. Kenwright and Terry Leahy ?both lifelong Evertonians ? have (apparently unlike the rest of us) only their own self interest at heart it would do nothing to help the club.My question is, therefore, quite simple:- where do the 40% think we will be then? Does anyone really believe that the way would then be clear for a Daddy Warbucks (there are obviously dozens waiting in the wings!) to come roaring in determined to plough billions in to the club together with a firm commitment to re-develop Goodison Park? (This would be done by building the whole caboosh above the existing stadium.

Goodison Park would then be dismantled and dumped in Stanley Park (which is clearly not important in terms of public space) before the new ground was lowered in to place ? thereby ensuring no loss of gate revenue.) Transfer funds would be massively boosted through the sale of Dixie Dean statues to those alive who can still remember him. The more energetic among us could then prepare ourselves for the assassination of the next shower of incumbents at the club who would doubtless be determined to undermine everything we stand for.

I accept that football fans are different from the normal ?consumer? but surely we all have to recognise that football has (whether we like it or not!) become a bigger business. If Marks and Sparks decided that it was commercially right to build a new store somewhere, would its customers start fighting the proposal on the grounds that there where ulterior motives behind the proposal. I doubt it ? people would accept that it was done for commercial reasons!

Not so with football fans. They would immediately start analysing the proposal to prove that it should be where they wanted it to be regardless of any commercial viability. Football fans have to accept that these days the club?s commercial viability will ultimately benefit them.

If we want the best team, if we want to be able to buy big if we want to be able compete every season and we want a decent stadium we have to accept change must happen and that it isn?t conditional on the wishes of individual fans. There needs to be compromise for the good of the club! If you can?t accept that you end up in League One!

Gavin Ramejkis
21   Posted 31/07/2008 at 19:46:37

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Sid fair play for posting your viewpoint but you are sure to be castigated by those No voters out there, I’m a no and can’t understand how a chain store can be held in comparison to a single premises entity football club and that argument falls flat on it’s face. The remainder is conjecture, your viewpoint against other viewpoints all tempered by your own interpretations, the lies from the club ever since DK began and information in the public domain ever since stop many supporters believing anything the club or partners in DK have to say.
Simon Templeman
22   Posted 31/07/2008 at 19:55:53

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Sid,
I’m not sure whether you were meaning to be funny with this post but you put a smile on my face anyway. Let’s hope for some Good News tomorrow, (err, the day that never comes).
Sid Logan
23   Posted 31/07/2008 at 20:49:53

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To Gavin & Simon, my posting was big on irony to hopefully make a point. I expect the 40% to be cheesed off but that?s democracy for you! Gavin the reference to M&S was simply to make the point that the premiership is the epitome of commercialism whether we like it or not ? I don?t! But to stay there we have to get on with it do our best within the framework that exists.
Steve Taylor
24   Posted 31/07/2008 at 21:10:11

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Some of the best posts I’ve ever read on this site (& no back biting!) Whatever next.......

Neil Verdin
25   Posted 31/07/2008 at 22:35:44

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DM must be desperate according to the bookies, down to 14- 1 from 66 - 1 with Paddy Power and Coral so concerned they have suspended betting on him! Maybe Wyness is the tip of a very big iceberg????
Neil Verdin
26   Posted 31/07/2008 at 22:37:18

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First Premier League manager to leave/sacked by the way...
Paul Johnson
27   Posted 31/07/2008 at 22:37:06

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I’m told that Wyness has not done a runner after all. He was sacked. The boardroom is split and there is no more than 7 million to spend.

Also the manager will be resigning within the month if the situation is not sorted. Kirkby is the last of our worries at the moment.
Gareth Holme
28   Posted 31/07/2008 at 23:00:51

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My money’s on Moyes or Kenwright leaving before the start of the season, and if not then at least before Christmas. My money’s on Moyes, unfortunately. Peter Reid to come back from Thailand or wherever he is to save us from the drop. For some reason i just put Jagielka and Yakubu in my Fantasy Football team...
Jim Lloyd
29   Posted 31/07/2008 at 19:33:09

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Sid,
I was originally just going to agree with the post and say that I think we’re in a bit of a pickle. I read your post and, forgive me if I’ve got it wrong but, you seem to be saying that anyone who criticises those in charge of our club, are some kind of back seat drivers who dont really understand what difficulties our brave chairman and his board have to overcome.
Well, we are each entitled to our view but I would hope we would accept that we are all Blues and all want what is best for our club.
I take it that you are critical of those who believe our cluib is being run badly and you do not believe that the proposals put forward could improve our club’s financial and P/R position.
I’m not particularly clever when it comes to busines but I don’t need to be a brain surgeon to see that our P/R is almost non existent. Liverpool city is like an Everton free zone. Our marketing is non existent and it doesn’t take a genius to see that there is a cash stream being lost.
Then we have question of funds to run the club; what would the effect be if we move to Kirkby and whether we have any dosh to get players in before the season starts.
All these are very worrying questions for many Evertonians. There are those who believe that the current board have things all under control so there is no need to worry.

Well Sid, I’m not one of them. I can’t help but think that we are in the last chance saloon. By stating that, I hope you won’t get on my back as being a "County Road Crew" member, or a KEOIC apparatchik, or a bitter and twisted Bill Kenwright hater.
All I can do, and say is based on what I have read and seen about our club.
I think a move to Kirkby will consign us to a long slow descent into oblivion. I think that our club currently is being chaired by a man who can’t let go of the reins and that we have already paid one price for his possessivness (King’s Dock)
There’s loads more I could say but I would bore readers even more.
In summary, I think we are as near to deaths door as I ever want to be.
I believe our transfer funds are non existent and consequently, Davie Moyes could well say "Fuck it, I’m off!" I think that the only thing stopping him, is that he is a gentleman and an honourary Blue.
I hope that when the EGM takes place, a proposition is able to be put forward on the lines of "Evertonians will band together to ensure the future of our club. This will take the form of a rights issue, in the multiples of £100. Each supporter is entitled to buy as may multiples as they desire. These shares will not entitle any Evertonian to any profit the club might make in the future."
Something on those lines was created for Celtic...and look at their ground.
Instead of a devisive move to Kirkby, we could begin to give funds to our manager and stay in the city of our birth...As the First club in Liverpool.

Jim
Steve Smith
30   Posted 31/07/2008 at 23:18:49

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Sid:
Enjoyed reading your post and it made me smile a lot. I was a yes voter but now I?am a no for DK. We need amongst other things a new stadium agreed.

Your analogy of a football club being like any other buisness is not correct. No other business can boast that once they gain a new customer at the age of about six that no matter how they run that business or treat that customer, the customer will still keep spending his money in the business , and would rather die than go to another similar business.

Football clubs are not about the board, the players, the training staff, the tea lady etc, football clubs are first and foremost about the supporters, without the supporters there is no football club {even if sky gave it 10 zillion a year} its about time that those we entrust with the power to run OUR club on OUR behalf started acting in a manner that at least shows they have a modicum of respect for US the people that matter for a change.
Dick Fearon
31   Posted 01/08/2008 at 00:15:47

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When the dust settles will all our doom mongers admit to their mistakes or select another target for their bile?
Jim Lloyd
32   Posted 01/08/2008 at 00:28:38

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Dick,
I find your post rather strange and not a little vague.
However, if you mean that if destination Kirkby goes ahead, thousands of extra Evertonians appear every week as if by magic, funds unlimited pour in to tescodrome to buy the players of our dreams, Everton become a world renowned club and that the route around "The Towny" will be filled with hundreds of thousands of exstatic Blues welcoming our heroes back from their latest conquests, then yes, I will admit Mia Culpa and write the longest most grovelling apology to our glorious leader, then I will take myself off to a distant monastry for having the temerity to say "I think were going wrong!"
Jim Lloyd
33   Posted 01/08/2008 at 00:39:28

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PS Dick, Not wanting to be construed as a doom monger, I have vainly thought of nice bright things I could say to my irritating little red friends, if our move to the promised land of "LiverpoolCity Region" whatever the fuck that is, turns out to be a nightmare.
We Will Have Left our City with no way back.
In my view that is an unforgiveable treachery to those Blues who have gone before and to those blues who aren’t going to get the chance to be the Blues of the future.
So, Dick, I’ll admit to whatever mistakes that I make in trying to keep our club in our city as the only way we can continue.
However, what I really don’t want to hear,is the likes of you coming on sometime in the future and saying "oops, I didn’t think it would work out like this."
So let’s just agree to differ, in what we believe will be the best future for EFC
Paul Stevens
34   Posted 01/08/2008 at 01:09:27

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Everyone who has ever met BK always says what a lovely charming man he is. However he should be incharge of a village fate rather than one of the top 50 or so sports companies in the world. My own personal belief is that Moyes will be offered the number 2 job at Old Trafford for a season before taking over with Fergie hanging around for a final year as a mentor. Even if he just walks due to frustration within 2 years we will be in the coca cola leagues. I just wish someone would come out and tell us the truth for once. Of course the other side of the coin is AJ wanted to leave, Moutinho signs, Moyes signs new deal and Kenwright continues to cling on to the club against the odds.
Tony Smith
35   Posted 01/08/2008 at 01:22:58

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Why has no one started a Kenwright out group putting real pressure on the man to sell. Him owning us is like Jimmy Tarbuck owning the redshite or Angus Deayton owning Manure. Just ridiculous this has carried on for so many years. He deserves credit for saving us from Peter Johnson but should then himself have moved on after 6months. Anyone know any bored billionaires?!
Dick Fearon
36   Posted 01/08/2008 at 04:04:43

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Jim LLoyd, Park. I have been a lifelong supporter of Everton football club, not Goodison park. That being the case and with the proviso that our club benefits It matters little to me where we end up.
One way or the other the matter will be settled and hopefully that will stop evertonians from abusing each other..

Brian Noble
37   Posted 01/08/2008 at 10:30:35

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Good to see that my original post provoked some good debating points but sorry to see that like every other thread it eventually degenerated to a slanging match over DK.In this time of crisis where we play must matter less than the league we end up playing in.
Remember Sothampton?
Dave Wilson
38   Posted 01/08/2008 at 12:39:31

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Brian
And Bolton and Sunderland and Derby and Leicester and Reading and Middleborugh and Coventry . . . . . . . . .

Still look on the bright side, not every club thats moved to a retail park have been relegated, Wigan stayed up
. . . . . .just
Ste Kenny
39   Posted 01/08/2008 at 14:31:20

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Dave,

They got relegated because they were crap not because of where they play
Jim Lloyd
40   Posted 01/08/2008 at 19:37:39

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Dick fearon,

Your right and I apologise. I shouldn’t be doing a post on here after a night on the whisky.
However, without any abuse now, I think that a) there are many Evertonians who are very concerned at what is going on, me included. That to me, doesn’t make us doom mongers but I can understand that someone with a different view, could see it that way, I’ve read post on Toffeeweb that indicate, if true, we are in a mess.
I tend to agree with those who are very concerned about the running of this club.
b) The proposed move.
I shouldn’t have gone on about that because the post was about the political mess about the move and apparent lack of funds, stop Moyes taking us to the next level. Well, one way of looking at what’s going on, is to be patient and just wait and see.We would soon find out but I think that the events of the past week have set alarm bells ringing.
Finally, Like you I’m a lifelong Evertonian but I have a different view to you on whether it matters where we play.
I don’t necessarily believe we can only ever stay at GP but I believe we are a Liverpool club and should stay in Liverpool. I worry that we are in a mess at the moment but fully accept that I could be wrong. I had no intention of being a doom monger but thats how I see it.
I will come on and admit I was totally wrong, if that turns out to be the case.
Football wise, lets just hope Moyes gets the men he wants and that he can have a go at taking us to that next level.


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