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The true cost of Kirkby

By Gareth Humphreys :  01/08/2008 :  Comments (30) :
If we are to believe the official line, Destination Kirkby has no direct or indirect effect on David Moyes's spending for the summer. Despite this we haven?t signed anyone prior to the decision and the manager still hasn?t signed his new contract.

With Keith Wyness having gone more, fuel is added to the fire about possible rifts between Wyness and Moyes, Wyness and Kenwright, Kenwright and Moyes, etc etc... You get the picture. Some view Keith Wyness leaving as a positive ? basically because he was a horse?s ass in everything he touched. I was of the same opinion and was delighted when he left; however, we do not yet know the fallout from this and its possible link to the impending Kirkby decision.

The rumours flying around yesterday and this morning are that Robert Earl is withholding funds for any further deals, Phillip Green wants to take his ball home and that David Moyes is considering throwing on the towel ? the last fact embellished by Coral who, at the time of writing, have closed the book on him being the first manager to leave this season.

The potential ramifications of going to Kirkby have been well documented on these pages. As a No voter from the off, I have been very vocal about the potential financial and logistical pitfalls to the move, irrespective of the sentimental reasons behind leaving Liverpool and more importantly, Goodison Park. I think we may have to look at the flip side of the coin though.

I think it is safe to assume that Robert Earl is on board because of Kirkby. If he goes, or just as significantly closes any potential credit line, where does that leave David Moyes? My fear, and I am sure I am not alone, is that David Moyes will quite possibly walk. We will then without question be screwed.

The question is this ? If the true cost of Kirkby is a credit line being available from Robert Earl and David Moyes staying, is this a price we are prepared to pay?

Another way of looking at it could possibly be a future in Kirkby with David Moyes or one at Goodison without him.

Reader Comments

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Carl Cole
1   Posted 01/08/2008 at 21:05:32

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Is this really what No votes wanted! Looks like they have got there wish. No new Gound, No new signings, No hope but the club will stay in Liverpool! Great!

What we need is a Yes on the Ground Move, then people will put cash into the club and we can move forward!
Brian Waring
2   Posted 01/08/2008 at 21:18:35

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Carl, what a load of bollocks! So, is that the new thread now? Because we have a load of fuck ups running the club, it’s our (no voters ) fault that there is no new signings, etc ?
Brian Waring
3   Posted 01/08/2008 at 22:11:01

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tony, you missed out BK there. Or was he include in your "all of you " line?
At the end of the day, he is as much to blame, as the others you mentioned.
Steve Jones
4   Posted 01/08/2008 at 21:47:08

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There was always going to be a tension between finance being available for DK versus being available for players, no matter what Everton say publicly,so this is a great post from Gareth and really defines 2 different scenrios and poses a great question.

Just look at Moyes’ demeanour over the last 3 weeks - totally pissed off, and I am sure this has passed through to the players - but his statements demonstrate how fiercely loyal he is to them. Now Kenwright has actually come out to support and made a statement - so it appears Moyes has won through.

You can only imagine Wyness jumping up and down at the propsect of unplanned funds coming from AJ’s sale and the battle of wills which ensued - all conjecture of course, but nice to think this may have been the case.

Lets hope things are going to break posiitvely- rumours that Sporting have accepted 17m for moutinho and a 5m bid for M’bia has been made and agreed could , hopefully be the start.

I for one want to see the team continue to develop with Moyes at the helm irrespective of location - then investment wil take care of itself.
Tony Marsh
5   Posted 01/08/2008 at 22:22:57

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Gareth the point so many like you fail to grasp is this...If the club moves to Kirkby
then we are dead anyway regardless of financial staus.Its a non starter for a lot of us and if onl a small percentage do what they say they will do and keep away then we are fucked.I personally know at least 40 to 50 fans who wont go myself included so if that continues across the Any fanswhole fan base what would be the point in moving.<

Any supporters going to Kirkby now after all the lies and bullshit will feel as though they have been mugged by there best mate.Its a dead in the water idea before it even starts so wake the fuck up
Lee Spargo
6   Posted 01/08/2008 at 22:49:38

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As arrogant and patronising as ever.
Peter Mitchell
7   Posted 01/08/2008 at 22:48:07

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The truth of the matter is that our investors (Green and Earle) need a new stadium to continue to support the club. It doesn’t really matter whether that is in Kirkby or elsewhere so long as it is financially viable. The fact is that the only game in town is Kirkby - no other financially viable sites have ever been identified in Liverpool or elsewhere. I think Kirkby is a dead duck - Green and Earle know this and so are not releasing funds. Moyes will not sign his new contract until funds are released for new signings. In short, I think, regardless of the original motives for supporters being either in favour or against DK, the game has moved on. DK will not happen, but ironically this will lead to investment being pulled, Moyes not signing his contract, no or very few new signings and a difficult season ahead. Not to mention a problem thereafter as we become a less and less attractive option.
Tony Cee
8   Posted 01/08/2008 at 22:49:13

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Brian........of course I include him too, Im just tired and emotional and sick of the sight of the mans name.......... Today he makes a mealy mouthed statement urging us to have faith and be patient......we are trying to sign players 24 / 7.........

Everton FCs great achievement of last season has been shat upon by all those who run the club........DAVID MOYES, NOT INCLUDED.............

Abuse removed by moderator

Jay Harris
9   Posted 01/08/2008 at 23:07:34

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Peter can I put your point in slightly different terms more akin to how it really is.

Earle and Green only supported Bullshit Billy while there was a chance of making a fast buck on Kirkby and then walking away leaving us with major debts and a mausoleum for a stadium.

Now it looks like it might be called in they are scrambling to get their money out of the club rapidly no matter what the consequences for everybody else.

Earl and Green were never in it for the longterm they were probably seduced by Bullshit Billy’s promises in the same way as Paul Gregg was and now they see the goose not laying a golden egg want their pound of flesh back.
Peter Mitchell
10   Posted 01/08/2008 at 23:22:38

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Jay - I take your point about the motives of Earl and Green. Who knows what would have happened if DK had become a reality. In fact my point is not about that but about what will happen now that DK will not happen (I think!). No new stadium = no new investment = no new signings = no new contract being signed by Moyes = huge problems for us.
Dave Barlow
11   Posted 01/08/2008 at 23:36:32

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Give BK some credit look at the crap we had before and we had to flog players.I think you need a reality check.
I honestly think some fans think the board are made of cash and will spend spend spend.Look what happened to Leeds Utd.
The game has changed and we like every other non champions league qualifiers are in the same boat.
Newcastle owned by billionaire ..not much spending..Middleborough coins have run out....any comments.
Gareth Humphreys
12   Posted 02/08/2008 at 01:14:51

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Tony Marsh - I really like your passion in this situation but comments like "wake the fuck up" are laughable.

I have been dead against Kirkby from day one. I didn’t even need to read the ballot - it was a tick in no and back in the post. But........

It seems the board are in too deep now for this to fail. I firmly beleive that if it does fail there is a good chance we will struggle like fuck to stay up unless a new buyer for the club is found.

I don’t know if a buyer is out there but despite how much DK turns my stomach Id rather Everton play in Kirkby than in League 1.

Would I go and watch them there ? That is another question.

If you don’t realise just how deep the pile of shit is that we are in and that maybe the devil that is DK maybe the only way out then I suggest it is you who needs to wake up.
13   Posted 02/08/2008 at 03:14:09

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I have just driven all the way down from Victoria Canada to Pendleton Oregon and it took me 12 hours and I have another 12 to drive tomorrow to see us play in Denver. I hope by Christ Moysey doesnt quit before I get there and...I have me footy boots in the car if we are short of players.

I’l play for nothin by the way.
14   Posted 02/08/2008 at 03:24:04

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i’ve been reading all this negative stuff for ages now, im worried about the lack of transfers coming in (not coming in), but everything i read sounds like people just want to blame someone. call me naive but im sure all these business men you think are against the club are trying their best! love the club or not they want to make money! i remember going the game when we were struggling with relegation every year, and its the same people in charge now that helped us get where we are... and why are people against moving to kirby has everyone forgot kirkby is in liverpool, what is knowsley? huyton, kirkby... both liverpool if you ask anyone from the city! ’we don’t care what the red shite say... what the fuck do we care’ (supposedly!!). lets all get behind the club and stop acting like moaning kopites! COYB whether we have any players or not!
15   Posted 02/08/2008 at 04:20:58

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I agre with Garys last post. As supporters we should the club. So stop the belly aching and lets get behind the team.

Oh and Gary. Last time I checked Kirby is NOT in Liverpool. There has to be somewhere within the City thats up for sale that would suit us. I noticed a site in Speke last week that was up for grabs under 10 mil.

Your thoughts

Tommy in a motel in Oregon.
Tom Davies
16   Posted 02/08/2008 at 09:01:58

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I think if we go to Kirkby, we will be quite slow over the next few years in big transfers and success, we would be slowly paying back our debts with any profits that we make.

If we need investment I think the best thing we can do is spend money on players, build a team and become more successful, enticing potential investers to come and have a nose.
Dave Roberts
17   Posted 02/08/2008 at 08:46:56

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Tony Marsh,

If ?waking the fuck up? means that after more than 50 years as an Evertonian I have to stop adding my presence and my voice to supporting the team if they move to Kirkby then I would rather stay asleep thank you very much.

I will engage in any constructive argument with any Evertonian who disagrees with my point of view but it is people like you I am worried about... people who would rather see the Club die rather than move a few miles up the road. Even if I shared your view about DK, even if I believed DK was putting the Club in jeopardy, even if I hated going to watch them in Kirkby, I would go all the MORE to try and keep the Club alive despite their ?terrible mistake?.

To paraphrase JFK, ? don?t just ask what your Club can do for you, ask what you can do for your Club?. You and your 40 or 50 mates taking your ball home if it doesn?t go your way tells me what side if the quotation you are on! Good riddance.
Chris Kennedy
18   Posted 02/08/2008 at 09:31:47

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I love reading these message boards but the amount of crap wrote about DK makes me smile...

DK was put to the fans and a vote of Yes came back. So all the supporters of KEIOC ? get over it! At least the club seeks the fans' approval... Christ, many clubs just don?t give a hoot about their fans ? this shows Everton to be different...

On BK, the suggestions he is bad for Everton makes my piss boil. This is a fella who has moved the club forward, got a good manager in (let's be honest, a brave move because DM was not a popular choice at the time), broke our transfer record numerous times to bring players in, and will do so again this year... Wake up and smell the coffee! BK has said he will sell if a substantial backer comes in...

Hey he could sell to the next party that shows a interest and before you know it the yanks are in and we're the "Everton Bluesocks"... We don?t have anyone looking to invest in Everton I will be the first to call BK if he ever turns down a genuine backer...
Phil Bellis
19   Posted 02/08/2008 at 12:27:12

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If one more patronising, smart-arse, under-35 out-of-towner tells me to ?get over it?, I swear I?ll use all my 33 years in IT to hunt them down,
Chris Kennedy... I fart in your general direction

Grow up you tart! (mild abuse)
Tommy Jones
20   Posted 02/08/2008 at 13:25:46

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Things are hot for DM today. It's only 101 flippin degrees in Denver today and for tomorrows game the forecast is a cool 90!

I put my faith in Moyes. He?s a crackin fella. He should be our first signing.

We?ll supp some ale tonight I tell yer.
Joe Smith
21   Posted 02/08/2008 at 13:28:11

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Chris Kennedy - the vote was for a "World Class Stadium" that was "virtually free". Even on that basis 10,000 voted against it. Most supporters don?t want Kirkby - see ToffeeWeb's own poll.
Andy Myers
22   Posted 02/08/2008 at 14:50:42

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Short, not very sweet... but true (and believe me I do not like this fact).

No new ground means no new investment (who will want to invest when they know either a new ground or at the very least a costly re-development is required as a must). No new investment and we will drift off the top half of the table and possibly beyond.

Let's face it, you do not need to look for serious investors because they will find you. No one with serious money wants to touch us - fact.

For all his faults (and there are many), I do believe that BK has tried to attract serious investment, after all why would?nt he try to protect and grow his own investment. It is in his own interest to develop the club but the ground is a huge obstacle.

What is the answer? The huge amount of words and discussions on this and other sites clearly shows that no-one has the answer because we need serious money. It actually is not about Kirkby or not Kirkby ? it is simply about money; with an annual turnover of just above £50 million we are small part players when compared to "top 4" and even Spurs, Villa and others.

As you can probably tell, I am very downhearted at the moment but light at the end of the tunnel - only 2 weeks to kick-off and then I will have my beloved blues to follow on the pitch, which at the end of the day is what football is actually about!!
Morgan Tarr
23   Posted 02/08/2008 at 15:37:19

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If Moyes leaves it will have nothing to do with Kirkby, it will be down to the fact Kenwright does not want to sell (which is stated in the planning permission for Kirkby). Kenwright cannot provide Moyes the money he wants, so if Moyes leaves, it will be because of Kenwright.

I find it very hard to believe that a club who has recently finished 5th in the league, is competing in Europe on a consistent basis, is based in a major UK city, cannot find new investment unless we leave our home and move into a basic ground in a town with less than 50,000.

Kenwright has to leave the club for us to progress even further, or Moyes is certain to go. Hopefully we will get the news on Monday that Kirkby has been called in, and we can put that farce of a move behind us and start to move forward as a club.

Jay Harris
24   Posted 02/08/2008 at 16:28:32

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When will people realise Kirkby is just a golden egg for Kenwright and his buddies who will just leave us the legacy of a mausoleum and huge debt.

It is the only way for them to get out of their bank guarantees and make some money.

That?s why it?s being pushed so hard.

How the hell can taking on what will probably be £100 million debt make the club's finances healthier?

The real answer is to get a proper marketing director in who knows how to brand, merchandise and conduct PR.

Spurs get £40 million from commercial activities we get less than £1 million. That has fuck all to do with GP or Kirkby ? that's about management... or the lack of it.
Gavin Ramejkis
25   Posted 02/08/2008 at 16:32:09

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If the club had a marketing and retail strategy and all of the off-field activities that they SHOULD be undertaking, then the balance sheet would look far more attractive to any investor. As it stands with virtually everything outsourced and running at a loss, and the rumoured requirement that BK remains on the board should a takeover happen, then yes your are right: no-one in their right mind would think Everton are viable.

Given that complete and utter lack of business acumen then how would the same incompetents assure anyone that they would be capable of a project such as a stadium move and it?s attached business plan and profit projections given what is clear to see right here right now? Arsenal built the team first and got the income generation working directly off the back of that success to such a point where they could go for a stadium move, yes it?s put them massively in debt but a manageable debt and they remain one of the top four sides in the EPL. They devised a long term strategy and worked towards it.

For Everton, the quick wins of outsourcing to achieve yearly profits have failed as they have no substance; the retail element is garbage with a great deal of the stores involved devoid of stock, the marketing seems none existent; Capital of Culture and no promotional work evident, corporate enticement (for better want of phraseology); a mini marquee in a car park. The people in charge of the club can barely walk ? let alone run ? with a business idea.

Steve Taylor
26   Posted 02/08/2008 at 16:49:58

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Jay Harris - I think you’re attempting to have both sides of the argument there - in your first breath, DK is somehow BK’s "Golden egg" & in the next breath you berate the debt incurred in funding it & how it will damage the business.

Make your mind up - either they’re going to make a wedge out of it by making the business a better proposition (even with the additional debt) or they’re going to kill it with debt - you can’t take both options?

Cliff McQueen
27   Posted 02/08/2008 at 18:05:59

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You have to laugh sometimes. One lad suggests a £10m site in Speke would be better than Kirkby because it is in Liverpool. Perhaps Tony Marsh will explain why Speke (11 miles from Goodison, no sponsors and about as remote as it gets in Liverpool) would be better than Kirkby (4 miles from Goodison sponsored by Tesco and just off the M57).
Andy Cooper
28   Posted 02/08/2008 at 20:40:36

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Can someone clear somethin up for me we have heard all these rumours about DK and how it might or might not get called in by the goverment, As far as I am aware they are now on there jollys and we still await a decision, were does that leave the whole project????
Alan Ross
29   Posted 02/08/2008 at 20:14:12

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The Consultative document on Transport for DK concludes that 2% of an average gate of 47500 will travel to the stadium by bike which represents something like 1000 supporters. I’d like to know who the fuck conjured this one up and based on what. The expectations for the rest is made up of coach 10,000 car @ 2 up is 10,000 (This includes Park and ride as well as Park and walk) 1500 by Taxi. 4500 by train 1500 by bus which gives a grand total of 28,500. Unless 19,000 are expected to walk, the vast majority from some distance given the population of Kirkby then I can only conclude that average attendances are not going to be viable for a premiership club - and this is assuming that 28,500 are perfectly happy given their travel arrangements with the attendant delays exiting the area. All in all it makes a complete nonsence of ’first class travel arrangements’ and yet the ostriches out there still believe this is our only alternative! Gonad sacks!
Tommy Jones
30   Posted 03/08/2008 at 15:41:47

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Here I am only 200 miles from Denver and on the third day of nothing but driving to watch Everton. Any argument about moving to Kirby, which is just 4 miles away from Goodison, has taken on a new perspective.

I hope we win today. We need some good news.

We?ll sup some ale tonight!

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