One step forward, two steps back...

Barry it’s all about interpretation but equally as argued - subjectively as your viewpoint you could also ask

How many years has it taken BK to fail to find long term investment and get to the point where he is now seen as a pariah by many fans?

Would anyone jump out of an aeroplane without a reserve chute? Dramatic but for a multi-million pound business to embark on such a significant project with no plan B is suicidal.

I doubt given BK’s record he would be capable of raising £78m but then that’s not our job, it’s his and the board’s, to raise the business, generate revenue streams and if they so decide sell up when they acknowledge they can take the club no further in line with the overused "I’m a fan" and want the best for the club, etc.

If DM walks then it will not be down tp the fanbase who have remained the one constant during this whole debacle it will be the board who will have failed as temporary custodians of the club - the whole way this has been conducted has been atrocious irrelevant if you were a yes or no voter with inconsistencies and blatant lies.

And Barry, Autoroute 2007 makes the proposed site 5.3 miles from Goodison Park of which you could well have had to walk a minimum 2.5 miles if you found parking at the limit of the proposed exclusion zone.

Well, that’s our only chance of crawling out of the primeval swamp gone. Another year of obstructed views and Dickensian toilets.Great! That’s £400 million of investment that Kirkby will never see again. If we end up in the Championship through lack of investment Kenwright will still get the blame. At least we’ll still be able to talk about the Grand Old Lady and the good old days.

Gavin ,Thanks for that bit of good news about Kirkby being 5.3 miles from Goodison and not 4. My round trip would only be 442.6 miles and not 446.
God help us next season. Davo you’re spot on, If we’re not in the championship and Moyes, Lescott and Arteta are still at the club it will be a miracle.

Since when have you been able to predict the future Davo do you posess a cystal ball. The only lies and bullshit that have been told are those by the Chairman, the guy who said he would never sell Wayne Rooney etc etc etc. Found out by every single person that he has worked with at a senior level at Everton Plc as being a total fantasist and bullshitter. Still using the PR bollocks on a daily basis "blah blah the Club’s for sale but only on my terms". Please see through the shit and spin, DK was never right for Everton, go and look at King’s Dock and then come back with a valid argument. short term gain for long term pain, lets get the EGM done have some real answers to the prevailing questions of the failings of EFC and move onwards with a clear strategy.

Come on Davo that was very naughty of you , predicting the future. You know the rules, only No voters are allowed to do that.

Thank God for common sense. Tesco break the rules, Wyness lied so many times I was starting to believe him! And now we have Professor Canon blaming KEIOC for the decision to call this shambolic application in. Well done to the government for doing the honest and right thing.

Oh woe is me! So all of a sudden Everton Football Club are to sink like a stone into the Championship? And what is more all of the players are going to leave as well. And this is all because we MAY not be moving to the "Tescodome". I seem to recall some words of advice given by a "Yes" voter in a previous thread.

GET OVER IT!!!!

Did the NO voters and KEIOC really have that much influence over a Govermental departemrnt to get the DK project called in, even with a local MP in favour of the move? Or was it the fact that the whole proposal contravened Governmental planning regulations and someone in high authority deemd it so and dared to ask for further time to investigate? The fact that we are in deep trouble is not down to the KEIOC or the NO voters or the YES voters but the board of directors, It would be unfair to put ALL of the blame on the current board as things have been mishandled since the banning of English clubs from Europe in the late 1980’s when we were the best team in England (if not Europe) but we failed to recognise the importance of the loss of European revenue and to invest in the Club, However, the current board has had sufficient time to resolve this matter but have failed, How are the likes of Sunderland, Fulham, M’Borough, Blackburn, ..... all teams who have not had the amount of "success" regarding league positioning over the last 5 years as we have had and have had no major investments, not in the desperate position we are led to believe we are in now? Who really is at fault for our predicament?

Waited to say this for so long

YES MEN - GET OVER IT

Oh and obstructed view? Only a cheapskate might have one, got myself a lovely unrestricted seat in the Park End, been there for years, before that the Gwladys Street just above the cross bar right in the middle again unrestricted, before that when a lot younger various other parts including the Main Stand before the arseholes that don’t even bother turning up land grabbed the seats again not a restricted view. If you got yourself a restricted view why not try harder and get yourself a decent seat? Yeah patronising when the boot is on the other foot isn’t it?

So, while the Judean Peoples Front originally gave the project the go ahead, the Peoples Front of Judea has now "called it in". Only in England...

I’m getting rotten today.

GET IN THERE.

Vincent; The 3 main things wrong with the Club, as we at the Peoples front of Judea see it, apart from investment, the ground and the board, are as you say....The Dickensian toilets, a decent plumber and some stainless steel and tiling would solve that. What % of 78mill would that entail.? The toilets in the Phil. pub are victorian. The last major refit was, I think, in the early 70’s.... as they reduced the ground capacity did they take out the toilets pro rata. Heaven forbid but could the real problem be the people using them.

The catering, or lack of, both before and after the sell off, this is a management problem, that and peoples changing tastes, I think we have moved on from pie and oxo. There is this thing called fast food, I hear it might catch on....again management cock up.

The ticketing, back in the day, you had a cup tie on Sat.and the replay was on Tuesday, a big team in the 6th round (remember the 6th round ) so all ticket, yet we all manages to get one of the 50K, this was with taking cash and no computers, just people in the office who knew what they were doing....

So we have 2 things, or in our case we don’t, good management who appoint people who know what they are doing.

Seems simple when you say it quick.

Or is it a case of....’ you don’t get what you deserve but you usually deserve what you get’

I have mixed feelings about last nights decision but what I want to see now is Tesco underwrite any additional cost so we can fight this dick of a Government. I knew I would see certain people go overboard today but I believe the plans are not dead, Tesco don?t give up that?s why they are as large as they are today. It also makes me laugh how you all feel this is the end of the project, why? Didn?t you all call KW a complete liar when he was with us, and only one person said a call in would see the end to the project was that the alleged liar himself so maybe the No?s got that one right??? But location apart you are all very happy that we have lost a new 50k stadium backed by a major sponsor, are you sure you all support Everton or the manager of the Wimslow. Get real people this decision as it stands today hinders the growth of our great club, get used to mediocrity because your small and selfish minds have possibly consigned us to this for the immediate future. Whilst we all agree the location is not the best we would certainly take this same project catapulted in to Walton Park so purely because of 370 metres of an imaginary line you feel the need to celebrate. When this decision is reversed I won?t be celebrating as it will consign GP to the scrap heap it would be more of a reflection against memories and the change. Be careful about celebrating too soon it can come back at you remember the cup final against the RS!! It?s only half time on this topic and I expect Tesco to come back fighting if they don?t then they are not the partner we had hoped for, come on Sir Terry get your gloves out and take on this feeble government!! COYB

Don’t get much for £255,000 these days ,do you? Perhaps BB should have bunged his Labour mates £2.5M then DK might have stood a chance!

Yes Alan,

I hear the benevolent Tesco shareholders often give millions of pounds away...In fact I hear that’s how they became the behemoth they are..

Can you give me an ETA on when you intend to stop taking through your crack?

Kirkby was nothing more than a fabric of deceit, lies and propoganda that was designed to line the pockets of the club directors...without actually providing any fiscal benefit to the team..YOU KNOW ALAN, THE TEAM - the thing most of us have the association with - not BK, not wyness...not any of the other faceless cretins.

now KIRKBY can add to its long list of negatives - the fact that it is more than likely illegal..

Kirkby is dead, the sooner it’s buried the better.

Overall this whole debate over the last year has been a fascinating competition between money and sentiment, with the sentimentalists ultimately trying to justify their feelings of outrage with money arguements.

The NO camp have attempted to flood every bulletin board with their protest - for much of this year seeming to work on the principle ’if you say
something often enough they will believe you’.

I was initially in favour of the move because
a) I have thought for many years while attending GP that it is a bit like an old stately home - nice to visit and think of the history but you wouldn’t set up a modern business there. Corporate facilities are embarrasingly outdated and limited.
b) I do not live near GP so have to travel no matter what happens


I waited to be convinced by either side. We had very little put to us by the YES side other than club figures so I undertook to investigate that myself. I looked at as many new stadium projects as I could and found that they all increased attendance and turnover, often by amounts agreeing with club estimates. We had massively rich partners and a willing council - this is a huge plus point for me.

On the NO side:
Stadium is poor quality. I don’t see that we can afford hardwood flooring etc, nor can I see the benefit to the team of overspending on the stadium. The design looks great to me considering it is also 3-4 times the size of GP!

Poor location. Many clubs are in poor locations and the fans always manage. No fan doesn’t go because of 4 miles, especially not the fanatical Everton fan. If they are still going after 14 years of rubbish they will travel 4 miles.

Poor transport. Most go by car or taxi. Parking is going to be chaotic at GP very soon with park and rides suggested for both Liverpool and Everton (have you seen the criticisms of LFC’s transport proposals?). It makes little difference when park and riding whether the bus turns right to GP or left to Kirkby. Its a pain in the ass but we will get used to it/find a way round.

Its not in the city. Discussions quickly showed that its not about keeping the stadium in the city, its about keeping it in North Liverpool. This amounts to a group of fans wanting to keep ’their’ club in their neighbourhood. I have never had that luxury and i suspect more than half don’t.

Redevelop GP. Expensive and cramped with complications such as knocking down houses/church/school & moving roads. Might have to be done (certainly better than waiting another 10 years for a new project) but is a compromise solution rather than the best solution.

Bottom line is what is best for the first team and that translates into money. Kirkby will generate more money more quickly than trying to ask people trying to impress corporate clients for £100 a pop to eat in a tent.

We are looking at a delay for at least a year before something starts to happen and whatever way you look at it that is bad news for the club. We can pretty competently stay in a top 10 position while still at GP but we need more income - and in the main that means ticket prices will go up cos corporates aren’t going to flood into GP no matter how we dress it up.

New owners? We need £100’s of millions invested in the squad to be consistently in the top 4. Noticed anyone doing that recently outside of London?

Graham Atherton makes a very good point. The No camp probably consists primarily of supporters who live very close to GP . I have never done so and tend to agree that probably 50% of supporters have to travel some distance to get there.



For years and years I was in a vast army of fans who travelled across the Mersey from the Wirral. It was a considerably longer journey to make than that which kirby would have posed to many in the No camp.



All this crap that the new stadium was not a Wembley or an Emirates incences me. Is G.P. such a wonderful stadium. For years now, its been a pig sty. It was built going on for 100 years ago, for goodness sake and it looks like it.



Its situated in a really run down area surrounded by old Victorian dwellings that look like they were built for a Hollywood film of Liverpool in the 19th century.



Have you people no ambition. Its patently obvious that even if it were possible to rebuild in this depressing area, our ground would not attract the money we want. I like the idea of Kirby, a green field site, not a dreary run down area such as it is situated in today

Tim,

Are you suggesting Kirkby represeted the pinnacle of Everton’s ambition?

That’s funny...no, it really is!

I just don’t get all this ’by not going to Krkby we’re settling for mediocrity’... well we’re 5th best now and the Arse got to a CL final playing from Highbury so it rubbish. Grrr.

Ciaran McGlone,
Kirkby wasn’t/isn’t the pinnacle of anyone’s ambition.

It was BK trying to work with what he has got. Or what he can get! The world is full of people who borrow much more than they can afford...... they usually end up getting repossessed. We would all love the Emirates. But hey, let’s float down and plant our feet back on solid ground for a second. DK would have been the fourth biggest PL ground in the country.

That hardly lacks ambition.

I would say that this article is very well presented. You see to me there is to viewpoints and each are equally justified.

There are the people who never wanted us to move to Kirkby and they would be quite happy for everton to stay mid table if it meant that their club was local to them. They are not interested in progression...well not as much as they are interested in being able to comfortably access their team and in some ways this is understandable. These people do not want to sacrifice the history of the club and locality just for cups and progression.

The second viewpoint, which i support from my own point of view is that Everton need a direction and progression and if that means as said in this article that I have to travel extra to see the blues then thats fine by me. I want to see us competing with Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United and showing that we are the pride of merseyside and the others accross the park are misplaced in the league.

Both viewpoints are equally as valid but i think its becoming clearer that progression at Goodison Park is going to be severely limited.

Barry,

The question was directed at Tim, as he clearly implief that those who opposed Kirkby had no ambition.

To return the question to me as a attack on realism, really smacks of desperation.