Blame who you want, but I wouldn't blame Bill

If you look at the official EFC website you will see ample reasons for complaints against EVERYONE on the board including the manager..The official squd to choose from is 16 including 3 goalkeepers so that means 15 only 9 of which are senior players...if that is not reason for complaint then I dont know what is. Im not kicking anyone individually its a collective shambles for any aspiring club playing in the premier league..It would only be expected in 2nd division or non league football..we cannot fill our bench according to the official website..this season allows for 7 subs, thats 18 players according to my maths...Do you know we have more backroom staff than available senior players...

I agree with everything you say. We are going forward the best we can... and we have seen progression over the last few years that is undeniable. Money is there to bring to right players in so lets hope Moyes gets a few of his targets over the next few weeks. We just have to hope that the kids do a job for us for a game or two.

Oh the humanity, what next an application for canonisation for Black Bill the patron Saint of Bullshitters? If you don’t get it by now you apologists never will.

The above article is precisely the reason for many fans criticism - sheer stupid and naive bullshit

ps

I saw some interviews with fans on tv yesterday. Now allowing for edits and stuff, those fans came across as birdbrains, some denying any problems at all. Many evertonians are just plain thick - despite their protest of loyalty they are totally blind to what’s happening. Ignorance and blind faith won’t improve things at EFC

Type or paste your comment here. No txt-speak, please try to use proper grammar, all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted

it could be worse we could be called liverpool football club

Stuart
what a time to come out and say "Black Bill" is doing wonders for our club.

THings are going pearshaped just the way they did under Johnson.
The only difference is we have a better manager.

Johnson was not half the liar of "watch this space" and "the cheque will be in the bank in the morning" bullshitter.

As for stability and good financial footing dont make me laugh.

Stuart,in your eyes BK is a "bloody hero".In my eyes he is a bloody con man.He certainly fooled me for a long time.Good luck to the lads today.We’ll win despite the board.

DM has now publicly apologised for his faults in the no transfer situation...Why was he not here overseeing the priorities instead of being in the states with the team..Steve Round could have handled that surely..We have now stumbled into a ’laughable’ situation that could only have been dreamt up by Mack Sennett..the official EFC site today shows a pick from squad of 16 including 3 goalkeepers and a total of just 9 senior players....we actually have 12 backroom staff which has been bolstered by the appointment of Steve Round...These are facts not just maybe’s..All the people who write in here apologising for the shambles on behalf of our leadership (and I include DM in this) must be the type of people who I could probably sell a used car to...so long as these ’Ostriches’ remain, we will never be able to put any sort of pressure on the present Board. Ive supported EFC since 1950 and this is the first time Ive ever seen us with such a dearth of players to start a season...we cannot fill the bench without weakening our academy side...Where is Moutinho, Millito, M’Bia, Love etc etc....we dont need any more loan rubbish who cant command places in mediocre teams...we need the quality we were PROMISED..stop giving them backdoors and make them face the truth...I would get the sack if I under performed like they do and so would any of you apologists..God you would probably have found Shipman not guilty !!

Stuart you lost that one before you began i’m afraid.

You say you’ve read the articles, you admit the club is in really bad shape and then you say ’dont blame bill’

Well maybe ’blame’ is too harsh a statement, so who would you hold accountable stuart?

Like it or not the buck stops with the man at the top, but i would like to hear who else you feel has had sufficient control of the club’s finances and direction to be responsible here.

With reasons of course...

A agree with the article writer - Bill is doing a solid job, safe and relatively effective. There is little chance of a ’bottom half’ finish while this squad stays together and Moyes is with us.

He is limited the same way most of us are, but if he had the cash he would give it. His relationship with his manager was an example to most of our competitors.

Something has been going on at board level this summer. The first splits between Kenwright and Moyes have appeared over the last 6 months - Moyes comments yesterday showed that he knows what is going on and isn’t happy the way some of the blame for lack of new players has been shifted on to him with some of Kenwrights recent comments. Kenwright/Moyes has been a massively important partnership for us so on the face of it this is worrying, however I detect frustration in the face of ambition from both of them. I get the impression Kenwright isn’t a particularly deep thinker and says some things that are emotional reactions rather than giving it a bit more thought. He shouldn’t have loaded pressure onto Moyes with some of his comments but if he wasn’t led by his heart he may well never have bought us in the first place and by god we were grateful when he did..

I think the money is clearly there. Last summer certain bridging loans seem to have been used to free up future earnings to buy players and those loans are not as freely available this year, so perhaps cash is available much later. Players of the calibre we want are far harder to get if you don’t want to throw cash at them so perhaps their clubs will run it to the brink to get the best deal for themselves - I would do that in their position. Most of our problems have pretty simple economic explanations.

Kenwright out? Yes when there is incoming investment.
Call for his head this afternoon if we lose? You really want to put us back to 2000? Remember those months of hopelessness when Johnson was absent for months and the club freewheeled?? I do and it made this summer feel like a tea party.

I’m lost for words about this article Stuart, when I started watching Everton in the 70s, one thing that grabbed me was how quick witted and sharp minded my fellow blues were, I think reading articles like this one and others like Doddys and Neil Pearce and the like still in support of BK, who can at best be described as incompetant and who must thank his lucky stars for Moyes as his saviour, too an absolunt charlaton only looking out for his own ends and serving his own ego whilst doing so. I really must take a rethink as i’m now begining to think that a large proportion of my fellow blues are some of the most gullible in the country, maybe I should open a market stall outside Goodison selling fresh air, im sure I would get some customers hey Stuart. So much for being speechless hey!!

Sorry, not part of this thread but Ken loach’s play ’The Golden Vision’ is on BBC4 on Monday at 20:50 as part of the Liverpool on the box season

Rich! I really had to respond to something that put me in the same line as a supporter of Bill’s! I think I first said that Bill had to go because he did not have enough money about two years ago. That has remained my view. I think he did a good job stabilising the club over recent years (I know many disagree with that), but his limitations have become painfully obvious.

This summer has been extremely disappointing. If we do not get at least three new quality signings in before the deadline we will struggle this season - and worse if we hit a spate of injuries.

I am (was?) of course a supporter of Kirkby, and I believe that Bill bet a lot on it not being called in - particularly in terms of securing new investment into the club (and perhaps even a new owner). It remains my view that not securing Kirkby has left the club in a serious financial predicament, some of the consequences of which we are now seeing.

Well done Stuart, great piece ! The problem is you will always get a minority of lame brains with every club who blame the chairman. The fact he has always said he is only a steward of the club with little money till someone with more money doesn’t register with them. The fact he stood by a manager when we were finishing 4th from bottom and the same lame brains wanted the manager sacked. The same people who think that people are fighting over each other to give Everton wads of cash...They are lame..lame...lame....call themselves fans...we are the real fans Stuart...supporting the club and team...

I really fail to see how anybody can feel optimistic after this summer. We finished 5th, had a great run in Europe & one of the cups, only to see the squad depleted with no replacements.

I can’t remember feeling so low on the morning of the first game. I should be champing at the bit, looking forward to seeing some exciting new signings alongside last season’s successful squad. We really could have made the Champions League except for some lousy luck with injuries to Cahill, Arteta & Vaughan. Instead of building on it, we’ve taken a few steps backwards.

By and large, I feel more inclined to agree with Stuart, than with so many others who continue to reiterate the view that ’Bill must go.’

These great thinkers offer no name regarding who they think will come in and work miracles.

It seems so like Kirby. So many No’s but absolutely no useful hint as to what the club should do regarding another site. Note, I said ’useful’.

The trouble with these forums is that they seem to be populated with people with absolutely no ideas as to the workings of Everton F.C. or any other large Premiership club.

Its so easy to criticise but when its based largely on surmise, it is particularly irriitating to those of us who would really like accurate information based on known facts.

Today I read an article based on a statement by David Moyes. It appears to reassure us that he has no immediate intention to leave, rather that he is determined to do everything he can for the players sake; not so much for the supporters who, based on the comments we get on this and other forums, hinder rather than help any progression for the club.

Now, I think I will just wait to see how things pan out, starting with todays game.

Well said, to some degree, I’ve been in Bill’s shoes myself so I know how this ’blame game’ works. People losing their heads and pointing the finger; Sorry but it’s all too easy when, someone is looking for a culprit, to say "Him with the knife covered in blood, standing over that mess that was once a golden hearted wanton of the night!"

J.T Ripper

Are wind-ups allowed as fan articles?

Great post Stuart!!! I for one can’t wait for the blues to get off to a good start against Blackburn who history report have arguably one of worst starting records in the PL. With that game down we can give the Bill and David another week to get in one or two players, and then 3 points against WBA get another one or two players in and then...The season isn’t finishing it’s starting, so lets get behind the blues!!!!!!

And so the apologists start to get their comments in.......and on it goes.......meanwhile Kenwrong sits in his well used/ over used chair and smiles....divide and conquer....it’s just so easy......Evertonians deserve all they get if this is how it plays out.........what does it take for people to see what’s going on here????

Stuart. You are way, way beyond help. I cannot believe that with all the evidence available in the public domain that you can lauch such an ignorant defence of the man seemingly hell-bent on destroying our club for his own aims.

’Financially sound?’ The old addage about ’If you have nothing sensible to say, say nothing at all’ is the best response to that.

It is morons like you who accept this and will contribute to our demise.

Must go. I have to watch Everton reserves in 3 hours time. Not that the club being in such a financial mess that we’ve been unable to borrow a penny from a recognised financial institution for the past 12 months has played any part in that of course.

It must be because I’m now so far away in Australia, but I had this quaint idea that a club at the upper end of the Premier League must be doing quite a lot right. And all the more so when the absurd financial arrangements of that league - whereby just 4 clubs get to have all the money - are taken into account. Obviously I’m wrong. The comments from the vast majority of fans of the club indicate that the club is a miserable failure and following it is sheer agony. I don’t remember things being at all like this when I used to frequent Goodison every fortnight.

Tim can you tell us if reading that same article it may perhaps be semantics or did it actually say DM had signed his contract? Thought not, he still has another 12 months to run on his current contract so will be going nowhere unless MU come knocking.

The alternatives for DK should surely have come from Everton FC themselves, when a multi million pound company admits in the public domain that it has no plan B or C then thats a pretty damning indictment of the kudos at the top.

Again the finding of new investors again a semantic lip service, the phrase looking for investment 24/7 does not read the same as looking for a buyer 24/7 as it doesn’t mean that. Again I point you to the planning application for DK which categorically stated that not one of the board members were willing to sell or dilute their shareholding which solidifies the semantic looking for investment rather than buyers. At that point ask yourself rationally who would invest millions and millions of pounds into anything whatsoever for a zero return? The reason maybe it hasn’t happened is just that very thing, investment isn’t a sale and the terms must be pretty unattractive as even minnows in English football have seen buyers clamouring to buy into them.

But you think these boards are awash with simple plebs with no business knowledge or acumen. I’d be pretty surprised if anyone on this board had knowledge of running an EPL side as surely they would be doing that job. The people who do post are from an extremely broad spectrum and all walks of life including quite successful business people.

We have no alternative to watch and see how today’s match pans out but £500 for a season ticket to watch Everton Reserves is a fucking cheek.

Graham Atherton,you put forward some reasonable points but I believe you are fundamentally mistaken.BK comes from a background where artifice is seen as a good quality and where ego is paramount.It shows in his running of the club.I would admire the man if his dealings with supporters were honest and tranparent .Sorry but I no longer trust him.It seems to me that his ego is more important than Everton.

Everything you need to know was in Moyes own words from this morning.

His "loyalty is to the players" he is in direct opposition to the club’s statement the "there has been money available all along" and he gives "there aren?t many clubs looking to sell players at the moment" as a key reason why we haven’t bought any.

So, Stuart, Tim and your fellow ostriches, why the hell have we sold our own players if Captain Bill is sailing such a happy ship?

The majority fans don’t get it that there is a very serious credit crunch underway, with what we’ve experienced todate just being the fore-tremors of what’s coming, if the hacks are right. The club can’t go out on a limb debt-wise in such circumstances because:

1. Banks are unwilling to lend, not even to each other.

2. Existing debts are going to be a problem too if / when this thing worsens. Come this time next year, many people could have a lot more to worry about than lack of signings.

From Nathan Snell...

"I for one can?t wait for the blues to get off to a good start against Blackburn who history report have arguably one of worst starting records in the PL"

Look out for ’Gypsy’ Nathan’s next piece, "United, Chelsea and Arsenal for the drop - DEFFO!"

So there you have it. A loss at home to a team not likely to challenge the top 4. Regardless of BK’s emotional attachment to the blues. We had a chance to push on from a good position in the league, a good Uefa run and a good cup run. Ultimately a chairman has to take responsibilty for the state of the club, we have not pushed on, the club has not bolstered an already light squad and we have are already looking for excuses on why we have not performed and why we are unlikley to challenge the sky 4.
If you want to challenge the sky 4 you need belief, a good manager and a squad sufficient in size and capability to challenge plus enough fans that believe! We have been let down on the squad, this is purely down to the management. Bill deliver or move on, regardless of whether their is a white knight to deliver you need to make sure we have a squad sufficiently large to compete, this is a given ! Struggling on the first day is bad management ! Football is no different from what the rest of us do ....get it sorted !

Chris Kelly - good post - but, here’s the rub, because according to Jay Woods, it’s all the fault of the credit crunch and presumably the American sub-prime market crash. Things should look up after Gordon Brown loses the next election and the financial markets start to turn - only a couple of years or so by which time Everton FC will be in the first division of the championship. You gotta look on the bright side ;0)

@ stephen stuart: Where did I say it was ALL the fault of the credit crunch? If we want to be picky about it, why not go back to the mismanagement under Peter Johnson? Or further again, to the days of Catterick, when a title winning side was basically dismantled? Or even the spat with Houlding that led to the formation of Liverpool FC?

I believe Kenwright is a fraud and I’d much rather we had a billionaire owner, but all I was doing was putting into context the lack of spending by Everton.

The Credit Crunch IS a factor in the shambles this summer. The Board have been dependent on borrowing for far too long and now that the tap has been turned off, it must mean that outside investment is more desperately needed than ever. Granted, the blame therefore lies squarely at the door of the Club’s Board, its custodians. But it is the credit crunch which has precipitated this disastrous situation. A number of clubs were able to borrow heavily in the past 5-6 years to operate until either a benefactor arrived (famously Chelsea) or build stadiums and repay the loans from increased income (Arsenal). In our case, neither a benefactor nor a large stadium has materialised and so other than the current squad we have nothing to show for our debt levels. Unless this debt is repaid from outside investment, then the club may eventually have to repay the debt by recouping more from player sales then spent in the transfer market. I am beginning to suspect, with the Credit Crunch, this has begun, and my suspicions will only be allayed if we make some signings and spend the cash which is supposedly available. It will be a nervy two weeks, that’s for sure.

DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK That is why we aint signed anybody. Bill stood to gain a new stadium for a fraction of the real cost. His stake in the club was going to be worth a pretty penny. The guys with the real money Earl and Green stood to make a pretty penny too. To me it's obvious, they didn't mind investing when DK was on the cards because they were virtually getting a stadium for nothing. Ask yourself how much their stake would be worth with a new stadium and how much its worth without. So that's that. There is no mystery its simple DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK DK

I don't know if the Board's intentions are honourable. I hope they are and time will tell. I guess by the end of the window we will all know. All I do know with any certainty is that nothing's happened up to now because of DK DK DK DK DK.

So I'm going to stop looking on the web and in the papers for the latest transfer speculation. I ain't took my eyes off THIS SPACE and to be honest Im beginning to think I could do fucking better things with my time.