PLEASE tell me how after all we now know about BK and DK can any of you still support this man and his dream of becoming super wealthy on the back of our club? Do any of you really believe that moving to Kirkby will make EFC a more appealing club for a potential investor/buyer to take control of?It's fucking laughable to even suggest it. It's all about Bill's bank balance and fuck the rest of us.
The scenario we are now facing as Everton supporters is the one many of us warned against last July but it appears we were all just scare mongering and were living in the past. Well I hope you like what we are left with at this present moment in time.
I personally don't think DK will get the go-ahead but it fills me with disgust and anger that BK and his new lap dog Elstone are pressing full steam ahead with this Kirkby nonsense without even looking at other possible venues. Where will we be in 18 months time if DK gets kicked in to touch again?
Surely a plan B is a must as a safety net if DK is to fail yet again. Only a gobshite like Kenwright would allow this folly to continue. Any sane business man would have all the bases covered by now wouldn't he?
What would soft lad do if one of his West End productions had a fire in the theatre? Would he shut up shop and walk away or make a contingency plan in another venue? It's fucking pathetic really isn't it?
Lets imagine this fictitious new billionaire Arab that Bill wants in coming to England to buy an EPL football club and his advisors giving him the run-down.
"Well, your Majesty, over there is Manchester City the club your kid just bought... It's got a brand new stadium built for the Commonwealth games and has all the infrastructure, roads, trains, airport and is only minutes to the city center. Great buy that was.
"Over there is LFC, you know them, your kid was after them last year but the Yankee Dogs wouldn't sell. They are trying to build their new stadium just yards away from the world famous Anfield and they too are only minutes away from the world famous city of Liverpool. Capital of culture, The Beatles, Ferries across the Mersey and all that. Would've been nice in the portfolio, My King."
"Yes I know about all this but what of this Everton you speak of?"
"Well, your Highness, jump in the Bentley and we will shoot over there..."
"Fuck me driver you said its only 4 miles away from Goodison Park but its been half an hour already. Speed up or I will chop your head off when we get back home..."
"Here we are, your Majesty: the new Stadium I promised you."
"Where the fuck are we, my slave?"
"It's called Kirkby, Oh Great One..."
"Fucking hell, this is more barren than the Saudi desert... where's the football club?"
"It's over there, My Lord... can't you see it, just past the bowling alley next to Carpet World? There's a Burger King as well, Your Highness, and I know you just love Whoppers...
"Never mind that bastard Kenwright for now ? is that ground made of plastic???
"Erm not sure, My Supreme Prince... "
"This place is a khazi. Who the fuck with any money or sense would want to come here for a day out?"
"My Lord, your wives can get the groceries in at the Tesco superstore while you watch 90 minutes of hoofball...."
"You twat, I am a Sainsburys man! Right, get me the fuck out of here and your bollocks are going on the Barbie when we get back. This is shite!"
Yes, Kirkby does lack a certain amount of appeal when you think about it. Who in their right mind would invest in a place so far removed from any facilties or glamour ? unless you call a pint in the Johhny Todd or the Woodpecker glamour?
Placing a Premier League football club of Everton's stature in a town like Kirkby would be like building a new National Opera House in Hartlepool. It just doesn't make any commercial sense.
Bill Kenwright and his followers are deluded fools blinded by the greed and apparent lies of this man. And at the end of the day it's us loyal fans who will suffer by losing the club we follow. No plan B is a joke and so is Kenwright. Kirkby will be the beginning of the end for us and not a new beginning you have been conned in to believing.
Bill won't give a toss though... he will be at home counting all his lovely blood money. What do you reckon he will pocket? £20 million plus... Not a bad days work if you can get it...
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1 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:17:39
2 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:20:26
3 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:20:48
4 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:30:34
I agree (in spirit) about the move to Kirby but I believe BK sees it as the lesser of two (no more coz we?re skint) evils....
To him it?s THIS (Kirby) way forward, or no way forward whatsoever.
If people can just accept how short of money we are as a club, they?ll see we really are between a rock and the hard place. Sad but, unfortunately and inevitably, true!
5 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:37:11
Michael et al I would suggest you consider pulling this article.
6 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:39:47
And apart from that, spot on as usual.
7 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:44:35
8 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:45:19
The rest of your article was also complete turd.
9 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:48:34
10 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:54:53
11 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:45:49
What continues to amaze me is that the whole issue of calling in the plans for thr Kirkby Retail Project has liitle to do with the building of a football stadium. It is about Tesco riding roughshod over a regional strategy alienating neighbouring boroughs and much of the local community.
We have no control over the outcome of the inquiry and to have no contingency plan is a dereliction of duty by the directors of Everton FC.
12 Posted 05/09/2008 at 14:53:51
13 Posted 05/09/2008 at 15:03:35
14 Posted 05/09/2008 at 15:11:45
15 Posted 05/09/2008 at 15:33:18
Get out of the fictional world you live in Bill. Talk to the rank and file supporters, not the one,s like yourself who jump on a plane after the match, Not once have you faced the again i,ll say the rank and file. SHITHOUSE.
16 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:07:56
Does this mean that BK with DK is FKD?
17 Posted 05/09/2008 at 15:45:15
"But what of this Everton you speak of"
"Well your Highness, jump in the bentley and i will take you there"
(a bit later arriving at Goodison)
"Here is the stadium i promised you"
"Where the fuck are we, my slave?""It’s called Goodison, oh great one......."
"My god, it’s older than Jesus’ Grandad, where’s the football club"
"It’s over there, beneath the huge shadow of the new Analfield, they have a McDonalds in there as well, I know you like your Royale’s"
"Never mind that Kenwright now, is that ground an antique, it even has obstructed views, poor facilities , people have to piss in sinks and it takes an hour to get a halftime pint"
"Erm,.....not sure my supreme Prince"
"This place is a khazi, who in their right mind would want to come here for a day out"
"Sorry my lord, but the club died with lack of investment due to not being able to move"
"You twat, get me out of here, this is shite"etc etc.
by the way i prefer to stay at goodison but have an open mind, this is just another way the conversation might have gone!!!!!!!!!!
18 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:06:45
If I worked for his insurance company I’d be checking BKs pockets for matches.
And lay off Hartlepool.
19 Posted 05/09/2008 at 15:59:19
By the way, could those saying ’libelous’ point out the libelous bits.
Same with the ’racist’ bits.
I’ve just read through the piece carefully and can find neither.
Or, like the lawyer in the Aussie movie ’The Castle’, is it just ’the vibe’?
20 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:20:40
1) They have more history than us
2) They have won more trophies than us
3) They have a better manager than us
4) They have a bigger fan base than us
21 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:33:57
In fact, Tony, wasn’t it you who told us just a few months ago that Bill was turning down offers for the club because he didn’t want to let go?
You were right, by the way, when you told us this. I know for a fact that BK has turned down lucrative offers from America and from Arabs, simply because he didn’t believe it was good for the club.
A man who wants to make a fortune from a club does not continue to turn down offers, you deranged muppet.
22 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:31:00
You’ll only provoke our fans in W. Australia, Portugal etc into responding, tellng us why Kirkby is the only way forward
BTW, whatever happened to G Madden?
23 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:26:23
This does this website no credit, it puts me more in mind of a BNP article.
Shame on the writer and more shame on Toffeeweb for publishing. I hear enough racists at out away games to know they exist but I didn’t think I would see them on here.
24 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:43:30
Your comments tell me quite a lot about you.
I find this thread sadder and sadder.
25 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:42:30
I still think the Arabs thought they bought United instead of City. Imagine getting back to the Palace and explaining they have Benjani instead of Berbatov!
26 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:37:02
27 Posted 05/09/2008 at 16:51:40
1) DK is announced and all the mouthpieces come on here aggresively slagging everyone and everything off
2) DK is called in and these same mouthpieces start laughing and kissing each others arses
3) DK is announced as still being the preferred project
4) The mouthpieces kick off again with the slagging off and bullshit
By the way don’t be complaining about reading this sort of bullshit you should be well used to it by now and you should also be well used to the arse kissing replies from the usual gobshites
28 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:06:42
Nothing but the same old ranting of some demented, bitter ole imbecile.
You could wonder why ANYBODY would bother with EFC with the negativity from you and your band of half wit brothers.
We are indeed fortunate to have people at the helm who do care. OK, if BK makes a profit from his endeavours it means EFC is worthwhile investing in. Have it your way and it’ll be no attraction to any investors.
Give it a rest and count your blessing. Accept the reality of the situation instead of ranting on.
"We’re all going to Kirkby, we’re all..................... etc. etc. Your don’t want to come - fine. We’ll survive.
29 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:05:56
I’m with Craig Godding on this though fella as I think you’ll end up working for Kenshite as a scriptwriter. This has got to be the first act of " CARRY ON KIRKBY" !!!
30 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:10:35
As he said, he had to borrow money to bring players in this term. As far as I was aware, he bought one player. The rest were on loan. The transfer was for £15 million. He has recently sold Johnson for £12.5 million and McFadden for around £5 million. That equals £17.5 million. That means he should have made £2.5 million in transfers with just these 3 players. Why did he need to borrow? Can anyone answer that, or am I being stupid here and missed something.
31 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:17:54
You may or may not be a lawyer but I would regard the phrase as "openly admitting he is in it for the money" as one which is not directly attributable to Bill Kenwright and therefore difficult to defend in an English Court of Law;
Similarly the reference to "my slave" and "chop your head off" are at best cheap stereotypes and at worst deliberatley racist comments, in my opinion.
Just some friendly and free advice to the website owners, it won’t be me being sued.
32 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:33:41
Let’s see... slavery of one form or another is currently rife in many parts of the world, so who would that comment be targeting, exactly? And reference to decapitation... is that perhaps Francophobic???
You PC types make yourselves sound utterly fucking ridiculous.
33 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:43:50
Why ?English? court of law? Is it a separate entity, divorced from UK law? I find that remark elitist and racially-divisive.
What?s your take on match-goers calling a referee ?cheating Welsh bastard?, shouting weightist, anti-venal and regionalist reamarks, such as ?fat Judas Manc? at players and calling other fans wooly-backs?
34 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:49:18
35 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:47:39
I do not regard myself as a PC type at all for your information. My comments were intended merely as a friendly counterview for your very good self.
If comments such as those I’ve highlighted appeared in a national newspaper then make no mistake there would be a libel action. There is no distinction in law between a newspaper and a website on that score.
Whatever the situation with regard to slavery in the world your comment is a complete non-secitur, as was the Francophobe comment, since there was a direct inference to linking slavery and decapitation with Arabs. I don’t have any PC axe to grind, far from it.
But you might ask yourself, if there were any other oil rich Middle Eastern types looking to invest in a football club who happened across these pages, and read such comments, would they think they had found a suitable place to invest? I for one don’t think so but maybe we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Quite apart from the above, Marsh spouts semi-literate vitriolic drivel, as always.
36 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:56:49
There is no such thing as UK Law.
Whether or not you find that remark elitist or not has no bearing on its factual content, although that never seems to hold up half of the contributors on this site.
If you?re going to have a cheap nitpicking pop I?d suggest you at least get some kind of heads up around a subject before doing so.
37 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:47:16
To throw in the tired old ’PC’ jibe and describe them as ’sounding utterly fucking ridiculous’ doesn’t do you any favours.
38 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:57:18
I?m not PC, although I find more and more that line is used by racists, sexists etc to cover up their ideas. The bottomline that this article is well out order, first of all because it is not funny, secondly he has no evidence to support the his views that he gives as facts, and thirdly it reads just like a BNP peice of writing.
All this talk of slaves, head chopping off if you can?t see it, well.
I honestly think that this site is so now so one eyed that it will allow anything on it to support its view on the ground move. No don?t get me wrong I think that it is balanced in so much that it will allow stuff the other way but the editors own views are blurring the line between what is acceptable and what isn?t in support of their views.
As for Phil Bellis, he just needs some education and then he would understand the term English Law. It is sad when someone tries to be clear and just shows up their ignorance.
39 Posted 05/09/2008 at 17:58:30
"My Lord, your wives can get the groceries in at the Tesco superstore while you watch 90 minutes of hoofball...."
I can see Germaine Greer crossing you off her Christmas card list after this nugget, and if Gordon Brown has a cabinet reshuffle I can’t see you being asked to apply for the Foreign Secretary gig, but my word this made my cunt ache with laughter.
40 Posted 05/09/2008 at 18:33:06
As well as being not funny it’s also not a good point.
41 Posted 05/09/2008 at 18:28:18
"This shambolic juggernaut needs to be challenged before this club turns a corner that could ruin everything."
We have a team capable of 5th, shortly 6th place in the league which pays the 10th highest wages in an old stadium no longer sufficient to support anything but moderate ambition.
We last won the league over 20 years ago. Unless you are content with mediocrity, what is there left to ruin?
42 Posted 05/09/2008 at 18:48:12
Racist, slanderous propaganda.
How long will it be till this web site is sued. Not long I suspect.
Surely it is now time to tell Marsh to fuck off. Somehow despite your short episode of gagging him 12 months or so back I doubt you ever will till it is too late.
After all the outrageous things he has said about fellow Evertonians in the past who would be surprised if this idiotic lout is also a racist.
43 Posted 05/09/2008 at 18:47:34
Thank you for answering my query - having worked with the Procurator Fiscal in Edinburgh, I was aware that there are distinct variations in the legal system in Scotland but am totally ignorant about the disparities between the individual countries statutes
And, including Kev in this response, I was simply trying to show how a reader can, by applying their own values and knowledge, misconstrue and misinterpret what was written, e.g. racism in Tony’s letter
44 Posted 05/09/2008 at 19:27:11
Now I understand as long I have different values and knowledge to another person I can say and do whatever I please. Any offence or wrong doing is just explained away by a something being misconstrued.
Let's say I come round and beat you up. Now under your values and knowledge you are upset and feel wronged. However, as the person who did the beating up, my values are one of casual violence and dealing with anyone who upset me in this manner. You have just "misconstrued" what I have done.
That's twice you have tried to make a clever point and ended up, well looking more than a little silly.
I think you are little out of your depth on this debating thing.
45 Posted 05/09/2008 at 19:24:55
46 Posted 05/09/2008 at 19:23:47
PS Phil Bellis I believe Gerard Madden is now on a certain board in Spain having lost his job at Goodison.
47 Posted 05/09/2008 at 19:28:23
48 Posted 05/09/2008 at 19:29:32
I’m sure your last post makes sense to you and possibly to others but not to me.
I answered your post based on fact, not on interpretation, and - as I intended to show in my original post, before I was pigeonholed as a "PC type" by the editorial staff based on a single different viewpoint (which was really risible) - interpretation of matters of libel is a matter for the courts.
Bizarrely, my sole original intention was to try and protect the said editorial staff and this forum from legal action which would potentially permanently remove it with some free professional advice.
Whatever the situation with respect to the "racist" issue, it’s secondary. I’ll just state again that with respect to the libel point, and with an increasing user base, this site sails close to the wind in some matters and I would genuinely hate to say "I told you so", since, on balance, it provides a very useful service to Evertonians.
49 Posted 05/09/2008 at 19:42:38
I regret now that I didn’t spend more time at college mass debating -you certainly benefited from it
Gavin...is he takng Doddy with him?
50 Posted 05/09/2008 at 19:39:43
You can just imagine the fans having a dig at you. Stripey tank tops, jumbo cords, the top button of their shirts fastened up, brylcreme hair, and the highlight of their weekend, is going to bed with a good Harry Potter book.
51 Posted 05/09/2008 at 19:50:51
Sometimes when you try and be controversial it blows up in your face. If you are not a racist and don?t think you are then fine you can sleep happy. However, to me and others you are and will be for ever more. Next time I see your writing the first thought that goes through my mind will be racist, followed as per normal by tosser.
Racism aside the worst thing about your article, as well as being misinformed, it?s just not funny. Hoof ball, slaves, chopping off of heads, wives at Tesco were you wearing a red frilly dress shirt when you wrote it. Don?t you think you come across as a poor mans Jim Davidson. Anything goes as long as it is a joke.
52 Posted 05/09/2008 at 20:01:21
53 Posted 05/09/2008 at 19:45:45
Sorry but there is a difference between a letter or response to a letter and an article written by someone who has been named previously as a contributor. The disclaimer you quote is not worth a carrot since Michael - foolishly in (just my) opinion - has subsequently indicated tentative support for the article as well as approving its publication. There is precedent and case law which I could quote except I can’t be fucking bothered anymore since my original motive in posting has been lost somewhere.
I wasn’t aware of a previous attempt to sue this website, so perhaps there are better informed specialist opinions than my general one. are you sure you aren’t confusing this with the embarrassing attempt to sue KEIOC? The circumstances are quite different. In any case, I’ll move on after this post.
But, for the avoidance of doubt, I’ll say again, I am a supporter of TW as well as being diametrically opposed to many of the opinions voiced here.
54 Posted 05/09/2008 at 20:01:21
55 Posted 05/09/2008 at 20:11:53
56 Posted 05/09/2008 at 20:15:02
I dont believe this article to be racist. You claim that it read like a "BNP piece of writing" I honestly wouldn't know as I ? and I suspect the overwhelming majority of people who post here ? haven't read one. You obviously have, but surely your not serious
The article wasn't that funny ? well not as funny as some of Tony's articles - but then your hardly a barrel of laughs yourself, are you?
See the article for what it is, a joke, stop trying to portray it as something more sinister.
57 Posted 05/09/2008 at 20:59:51
58 Posted 05/09/2008 at 21:07:43
59 Posted 05/09/2008 at 21:12:21
’ Hey Bill theres a fella on the phone wants to buy your shares’
’ How much did he offer, that all, tell him he’s fuckin dreamin’
Come on Hughsy get this fans fund up and running and buy the bullshitter
60 Posted 05/09/2008 at 21:50:29
If Irish, Welsh, Scottish or English stereo-types had been used no one would have batted an eye-lid and we would have yet another argument on DK.
All this talk of libel on a Friday night?..
Anyway, stiff upper lip! I?m away to the pub.
61 Posted 05/09/2008 at 22:26:49
This piece however is absolutely brilliant.
It’s well written, funny and most of all gets a point across.
Anyone who thinks that this is racist needs to get out more.
62 Posted 05/09/2008 at 22:20:20
Last season was the first in ages that I felt genuinely optimistic that We were moving forward. When Osman fired in that goal against Larissa I thought we could beat anyone, and with some smart off-field activity we’d easily consolidate our improvement. So, clutching at straws as I might be, there is much to be ruined. This summer’s transfer window nightmare will surely only get worse year on year If this Kirkby malarkey goes ahead?
63 Posted 05/09/2008 at 23:30:38
Hasn?t the penny dropped yet, put Goodison on the moon and true Evertonians would find their way to get there.
64 Posted 06/09/2008 at 00:42:29
Hmm, according to good ol’ Sepp Blatter I think that would be Cristian Ronaldo...
65 Posted 06/09/2008 at 01:36:27
66 Posted 06/09/2008 at 01:51:50
Sorry, mate everyone’s entitled to an opinion but unfortunately you’ve lost credibility.
No problem with constructive criticism but lets face it you only want to say something when its negative.
Have 6 years of progress really been that bad? We could have spent millions and been Newcastle. Credit for shrewd management where its due.
67 Posted 06/09/2008 at 03:02:10
I wouldnt talk so much if I were you. If you have so much to say, why don’t you just buy over EFC from BK and see whether you still feel the same way.
68 Posted 06/09/2008 at 03:14:40
Heres hoping for a better future regardless of all the turmoil. Laugh if you can?t cry.
69 Posted 06/09/2008 at 03:14:20
Everyone keeps going on about needing a new stadium to bring in investors. If that is all that matters then surely the best option would be to ground share with ?the shite? and then the investors would surely be tripping over each other.
Its not simply a matter of courting investment its about the long term stability of the club.
DK will be the beginning of the end and if you cant see that glaringly obvious scenario then you?ll see your kids and grandkids growing up wearing red shirts!
70 Posted 05/09/2008 at 20:32:04
Eastlands is in one of the most shitty run down parts of Manchester that, ok, has had some slight regeneration but is still a total shithole and is also not all that close to Manchester city centre! Did that stop them?
No, why would Everton being in Kirkby stop investment?! It wouldn't ? if any thing it would encourage it! The investors don't give a shit about tradtion or history! All they want is a shiney stadium to show their buddies ? be it in the centre of Liverpool or 10 miles away. Trust me, a new ground in Kirkby for an investor is a much more attractive proposition than Goodison!
71 Posted 06/09/2008 at 07:10:20
72 Posted 06/09/2008 at 07:37:31
Joe, as for your charge of "libel", I think a court of law would probably accept that someone who was "openly admitting" something did not actually have to use the exact phrase for the intention to be conveyed ? in this case, something like "I’m in it for the money". How does that differ from Bill Kenwright saying, as he apparently did on Wednesday, that he wishes to sell the club? Or is it Tony’s presumption of a profit motive in such a transaction that is libelous? Isn’t that the very nature and hope of "investment"?
And if you really are such a legal eagle, you should have some basis for distinguishing caricature from racism. I think you need to be very circumspect in playing the racist card; save it for real instances of racist abuse that most of us can recognize and condemn, rather than using it as yet another weapon to casually beat up on a fellow Evertonian whose robustly expressed views have raised your hackles.
For those who continue to object to Tony’s pieces, the advice really is: Don’t read them. You must know in advance they are going to upset you. I usually edit out any really outrageous stuff and have on occasion binned entire articles from him. But obviously that is a judgment call that each of us will make differently.
However, as it says in the Conditions of Use you implicitly accept when you post a comment on this website, the decision to publish or not rests with the Editors. Perhaps I should enforce a policy whereby exceptions taken should be submitted to us as Feedback, and not as Comments on the thread, so that the issue being raised ? in this case, DK a spur to investment or not? ? actually gets discussed, rather than drowned out by the noises from Tony’s concerned nemeses.
73 Posted 06/09/2008 at 09:32:58
74 Posted 06/09/2008 at 09:43:38
75 Posted 06/09/2008 at 10:24:46
Does this mean that anything can be published on this site?
How many of the people who are backing this unfunny rant would be doing the same if it was pro Kirkby? Not many I think.
The idea that Walton and Goodison would somehow impress when Kirkby wouldn?t is perhaps the most laughable thing in this article.
What exactly is a Sainsbury?s man, anyway?
76 Posted 06/09/2008 at 10:48:46
77 Posted 06/09/2008 at 11:28:08
Anyone who’s ever been to the modern Middle East will know that a sheik would find a brand spanking new retail / sports / entertainment development on the edge of town completely familiar. They are everywhere.
On the other hand, Goodison and Walton would be utterly alien and completely shocking.
78 Posted 06/09/2008 at 11:27:07
Absolute drivel and pretty offensive to boot. If you can’t make your argument stand up without resorting to personal attacks then it must be a pretty weak case you have.
79 Posted 06/09/2008 at 12:13:17
Another point my mate told was he felt embarrassed at some of the questions the shareholders asked. Kenwright said we had £78 million for any deal thats as much as we?ve got and to renovate Goodison would cost minimum of just under £200 million. Whether you believe him or not, that's simple enough maths but two people then asked, "Why don't we renovateGoodison?"!!!
80 Posted 06/09/2008 at 13:15:12
When we Evertonians look at Goodison we see our home, we love the place for many different reasons, history, memories etc etc & this clouds our vision of the old girl - a neutral looking at it, just sees a tired, out dated old stadium, that’s mostly about 20 years past it’s sell by date.
The lack of a stadium solution (whether that’s DK, a redeveloped GP or AN other) may well make the kind of investor that Citeh have just landed - think twice. Not solely because of the cost implications, but also because of the time lag involved in planning through to completion.
The kind of guys that have bought Citeh want everything NOW, not tomorrow or 5 years down the line - they’re looking for the fun end of Football club ownership - buying star players & watching them gracing the CL - not planning & developing a new stadium complex.
81 Posted 06/09/2008 at 13:30:36
Imagine our new owner is taking his mates to his new club to show it off for the first time after the purchase. They are driving by Stanley Park, and his best friend pipes up:
"You are right! This is indeed special and magnificent!"
"Er... Wait one moment, we are not there yet. THIS is my football club!" (Points to Goodison.)
"I am so sorry, my friend. I did not realise".
(This is not of course how WE see it. But it’s pretty likely how they will. Tony, you love GP the way we all do. But you are SO offbase on this one!)
82 Posted 06/09/2008 at 13:35:25
Eastlands has staged a Red Hot Chilli Peppers concert and a Ricky Hatton fight. DK cannot do that. Any investors want a return on their monies and if you believe DK can do that you are either wrong headed or delusional.
83 Posted 06/09/2008 at 13:56:18
84 Posted 06/09/2008 at 13:59:18
On your broader point, if you still believe by now that either rebuilding GP or building an expensive stadium in the city will create a better return on investment than Kirkby, than there is nothing that I or anyone else am going to be able to repeat to persuade you. You might wonder why no-one has bought us yet to either rebuild GP or build a new city stadium. But you probably think Bill has been turning them all away and we have never heard a peep out of them.
85 Posted 06/09/2008 at 14:05:46
86 Posted 06/09/2008 at 14:07:50
FFS Neil stop polishing that turd!!!
87 Posted 06/09/2008 at 14:24:14
They do not have your or Tony?s negative associations with Kirkby. They will see it as part of Liverpool.
In any case, David, you still have no plausible affordable alternative to Kirkby which is likely to get us new investment ? so you are polishing empty air.
88 Posted 06/09/2008 at 14:09:21
Both these points it seems to me are proper comments for debate and both are capable of strongly worded refutation if you can be bothered to do so. But to say that they are libellous is frankly ridiculous and displays an ignorance of the law (which if memory serves is no defence).
Along the way, he reminded us that certain Arabic states are a little freer with the death penalty than our moral standards would allow. That is, I think, a valid point and it is properly the subject of contempt in any context ? comic or otherwise. But it is hardly racist as I would make exactly the same observation about the current incumbent of the White House, with whom we are supposed to enjoy a ?special relationship?
But do beware Michael (with respect) some of the vilest pieces of racism I have seen have been in the form of caricature - this however wasn?t one of them and if it was I am sure that it would be condemned by all ? pro- or anti-Kirkby.
89 Posted 06/09/2008 at 14:12:28
And you sir are on planet cuckoo land if you believe this shit. None of it adds up and when things don't add up it means usually there's a big pile of money going to someone. Remember 90% of causality is cash: Keith Wyness was on £400k per annum the guy before was on £150 per annum maybe the huge salary was because of the fact he was going to be hated so much. He was supposedly a CEO, yet we?re told his sole objective was to bring DK over the line.
Perhaps that explains the ludicrous situation with our merchandising... "oh let's just let fuckin JJB sell it"!!! Is it no wonder Trevor Birch fucked off? You can hear the conversation now:
"You want me to do what, Bill? Do your fuckin dirty work for you?? Tell all these scousers we're fucking off to Kirkby??? On your bike mate."
"Well, I cant, I?m fuckin one of them.... I'll tell you what: here's £400k."
"No thanks... I'm off!" .... Enter Keith Wyness.
No, I'm sorry, Neil, you and I will always differ on this ? but make no mistake, Everton will not profit out of this but someone will.
90 Posted 06/09/2008 at 14:31:00
I am not interested in discussing Post-war town planning and what has happened to the 400,000 scousers who have left the city since 1945.
What's your point Neil, other than the fact that you don?t have one?
Polishing thin air? Somebody save me form his rapier wit, ooh that cut me to the core.
Seriously Neil go to Moscow or the Gulf states and try to find a mug on the back of this polished turd. Failing that try Dragon?s Den.
91 Posted 06/09/2008 at 14:42:03
But first of all in today’s world £400K is not a huge salary for Wyness’s position as a matter of fact.
Secondly, Bill can only make lots of money out of Kirkby if the value of Everton Football Club goes up as a result of moving there. If Kirkby is the utter financial disaster you think it is, the value of the club will go down, as will the value of Bill’s shares.
I have now pointed out this contradiction to you No guys time after time. It simply cannot logically be the case that Kirkby is a financial disaster for the club AND Bill makes a financial killing out of it. It is simply impossible unless you believe that there is some idiot out there who is going to buy Everton FC for far more than it is actually worth.
92 Posted 06/09/2008 at 14:47:44
93 Posted 06/09/2008 at 15:01:08
94 Posted 06/09/2008 at 14:43:42
It’s just your usual load of shit. Far from being racist but even further from being fucking funny.
95 Posted 06/09/2008 at 15:02:04
96 Posted 06/09/2008 at 15:10:43
And anyway, you should be pleased that Kirkby is seen as part of Liverpool by most people. If it wasn’t, your friends at the LCC wouldn’t have got it called in by arguing that it threatened their city centre retailers.
97 Posted 06/09/2008 at 15:10:25
98 Posted 06/09/2008 at 15:18:25
99 Posted 06/09/2008 at 15:22:53
However, DIC are a different breed of investor to the Abu Dhabi crowd, they are serious investors i.e. they’re looking for a return, & it’d be a genuine business transaction - unlike Citeh’s new owners who have bought them for a bit of fun. As a true business investment we just don’t stack up at the moment.
Still a great thought though & we should have a punt - just in case........
100 Posted 06/09/2008 at 15:26:26
The reality is that the people who we all care about saying that Kirkby is not in Liverpool are the supporters of Liverpool Football Club. And indeed they do and will. And that’s about it.
The supporters of other clubs will arrive in Liverpool and not notice much difference. And I think we can safely assume that Russian oligarchs and Arab sheiks neither know nor care precisely where the boundaries of the LCC and Knowsley Borough Council begin or end. They will see no problem with a brand new stadium in Kirkby built with one of the world’s premier retailers.
101 Posted 06/09/2008 at 15:23:11
102 Posted 06/09/2008 at 16:43:34
I’m described as "pompous", pigeonholed as a PC type, "idiots like you" etc etc based on a single objection and a viewpoint. It’s nice and easy and lazy to stereotype a person based on a single view. It also says a lot about an individual who does that. Guess what? Most people are more complicated than that. Opinions and viewpoints fluctuate, prejudices tend to stick with people for life.
I wasn’t passing judgement only an opinion, and I certainly *could* give my credentials as a QC here also but I can’t be bothered.
For what it’s worth the definition of racism (dictionary.com) is "Discrimination or prejudice based on race". I’ll leave others to make their own mind up on that one. I expressed an opinion, that’s all and catcalls from the baying mob have not changed my opinion.
Also, I am not a "PC type" since I have my own unfortunate prejudices. I am all of thick-ist, ignoramus-ist and gobshite-ist. For these reasons I think I’ll take the advice Michael has offered and in future avoid commenting articles from the drooling halfwit Marsh, as you seem to deserve each other.
103 Posted 06/09/2008 at 16:51:41
As one of the 400,000 exiles that no longer resides in Liverpool your rhetoric is a welcome trip down memory lane for me. In fact it takes me straight back to match days as a boy standing outside pubs like The Winslow and the characters myself and my dad would end up in conversation with, then laughing about for days afterwards.
I have now resided in London for many years and therefore don?t make it up to Goodison as often as I?d wish, but when I do it's certainly not the Joes and Kevs of this world that you?d want to share a pint with after the game.
So cheers to you, Tony, it's guys like you and your scouse passion, pride and humour that embody what I?ve always felt to be great about our supporters. And that in itself may wholly sum up what most people fear will be under threat if we do have to defer our spiritual home to the RS.
A massive price to pay, whoever the beneficiary is.
104 Posted 06/09/2008 at 18:11:34
105 Posted 06/09/2008 at 19:59:11
And I take your point about "caricature"; it?s not quite the right word for what Tony was doing... "sterotype" is probably the more appropriate one but it has accumulated too many negative overtones from the PC brigade, and I was scrambling in vain to come up with something better.
Kev Wainwright: as I said, we publish what we think is fit to publish. If you have an issue with that, send us your Feedback or use the Report Abuse facility.
Neil Pearse ? Could I suggest this for your consideration: That sale of the club on the back of the approval of Kirkby would be a significant short-term financial success for the club and a huge personal bonanza (in terms of his return on original investment) for Bill Kenwright. However, as the doom-mongering line goes, Kirkby proves over the long term to be the absolute disaster in financial and all other means that they are predicting.
See: the anti-Kirkby lobby CAN have their cake and eat it... or something!
106 Posted 07/09/2008 at 00:13:36
If you think DK will help find the club an (Russian/Arab) investor, go and find one. The only claim I make is that DK is not the answer.
107 Posted 07/09/2008 at 00:08:09
Would it be fair to say that since BK made his investment, he?s taken not a penny in income from the business? Also, in those 8 years the country in general & the EPL in particular has benefited from huge economic growth & as such his original investment will have grown significantly ? both off the back of this & the fact that we?ve moved on from being relegation fodder to top 6 regulars under Moyes (& BK) ? so TODAY his share will be worth significantly more than he purchased it for ? in the same way that if he?d have put his hard earned into property back in ?99 ? he?d have seen a huge increase in the value of his investment.
But it suits the cause to say that a lifelong Blue, who?s shown no desire to line his pockets in 8 years, is proposing to take the club to Kirkby merely to provide himself with the "Golden egg" ? it defies belief that this conspiracy theory has been used to discredit BK. He?s merely doing what he thinks is best for the club ? given the resources available.
The No lobby obviously don?t agree with his choice ? but the constant personal attacks on the bloke & the accusations of pure personal greed, devalues the No lobby?s argument IMO ? it?s a low blow ? you may not agree with him, but there?s no basis of fact in your argument & you?re clearly trying to have both sides of it.
As your "theory" relies on both the club over valueing itself & someone falling for it, & your gloomy forecast of impending doom should we move, becoming a reality ? both notions are fanciful ? firstly, anyone carrying out due dilligence will only pay what the business is worth, if the debt level is so unsustainable (which the No lobby claim) then any prosepective purchaser will see it & either run a mile or value the club accordingly.
Secondly if the club IS valued higher as a result of the approval then the maths must work??? But I suppose this won?t come to fruition because of the "huge" numbers who won?t go?
EFC will carry on with or without the No voters who proclaim they?ll never set foot in the place, the club WILL attract new fans (every club who?s ever moved has done so) & if the team on the ptich delivers ? the club will go from strength to strength.
If BK sells up either before or after DK is approved (or not) & makes a profit on his investment ? it?ll be secondary to the man IMO ? as the future of the club & whose hands it ends up in will be his primary concern ? he may be an egoticstical, self obsessed, fantasist, but he?s not a greedy bastard is my point...
108 Posted 07/09/2008 at 04:11:26
The article was neither funny nor well written. Tony always pipes up when he has something negative to say about our club. Is your favourite colour red by any chance?
He may've tried to make some valid points, but it was all lost in a sea of pure ignorance.
109 Posted 07/09/2008 at 05:22:36
The facts are these: Bill does not need to have built DK before he sells the club: I contend that that securing DK as a goer will substantially increase the perceived current value of the club. And it may be all Bill needs to at last find his successor.
The combined projection provides at least a scenario that gets past Neil’s repeated claim that Bill can only make lots of money out of Kirkby if the value of Everton Football Club goes up as a result of moving there. That is a very narrow definition of Bill’s upcoming payday and it completely ignores the realistic timescales involved.
I was seeking to broaden it based on the rumblings we heard when DK was called in ? namely that, if DK had been approved, then having secured that approval may have been enough to trigger a successful takeover bid that provides Bill Kenwright with a potentially large amount of money.
I’m not complaining about him making lotsa money ? I’m merely constructing a scenario that confounds Neil’s myopic claims while confirming the potential that there is a massive upside for Bill personally if he can get someone to bite on the promise of DK coming good.
You characterize this as Bill proposing to take the club to Kirkby merely to provide himself with the "Golden egg" ? claiming that this "conspiracy theory" has been used to discredit BK, and believing that he is merely doing what he thinks is best for the club ? given the resources available. Well of course, you can put whatever spin you like on it. 97.7% of shareholders voted against ending the exclusivity agreement after all... didn’t they? But I digress.
You say there?s no basis of fact in my argument ? well, there are no facts when we are talking about financial projections... but are they really that impossible? I think not. You say my "theory" relies on both the club over valueing itself & someone falling for it: that’s not true. As you yourself said, the club has already incresased in value over the last 8 years and if Bill could find a buyer today, chances are the price paid would be substantially above what Bill paid Agent Johnson, leading to him walking away (before DK is even built) with a handsome profit. Securing the promise of DK would quite possibly have been the catalyst needed to prompt such a takeover.
The argument from the club has always been that the extra £10M each season will justify the move to DK and a rich and wonderful future for Everton. But that can’t happen for a number of years. And those who dare to be sceptical just can’t see the numbers working out like that. How a due diligence team would see it is anyone’s guess but BIll and Keith developed a construct that was designed to fool a majority into voting for the proposal, which others (many more now, apparently) see as deeply flawed. So the "gloomy forecast of impending doom" should we move might not really be all that fanciful after all.
As ever with this stuff, it comes down to what you want to believe. If you want to believe Bill is doing everything he can purely for the good of the club, good on you. But there are others who know the power of money and who could see the pieces of a somewhat less psycophantic "conspiracy theory" fitting into place that would explain the ridiculous exclusivity agreement, the whole Tesco connection, the singleminded approach that won’t examine any of the critical concerns and very valid objections raised at the EGM, the subsequent "clear Mandate" whitewash, the absence of any plan B... etc etc.
To me, it’s been confirmed by Bill’s inability to hide his frustration since the call-in, and the surfacing of his desire to be out of it... now if only I could believe this "good of the club" mantra...
110 Posted 07/09/2008 at 06:13:44
111 Posted 07/09/2008 at 12:39:26
Personally, I don’t think he’s got another year in him, so our differing views over his motives may well prove to be irrelevant. The appointment of Harris is a clear signal of intent to actually find a buyer & not merely pay lip service to it.
His comments at the EGM stating he wanted out, received huge media coverage & in a week when the whole world was looking at the EPL, in the wake of the Citeh takeover - if our own Billionaire is out there, he may well be flushed out in the none too distant - the timing of the EGM may well prove to be fortuitous - here’s hoping.
112 Posted 07/09/2008 at 18:06:55
Have you ever heard of people in certain management areas having different qualifications? Especially IT?
113 Posted 08/09/2008 at 13:56:48
what other contributor can create such chaos with the swoop of a pen..
I think it’s quite obvious that people are going out of their way to be insulted by Tony’s succinct and descriptive writing style....
It’s even come to the point at which people are making the most astounding proclaimations!
There is certainly such a thing as UK law and this article is certainly not libelous!
Keep it up Tony.