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Time to Go?
Comments (41) : “No passion, no confidence, no resilience, no shape to the team, no quality or creativity, no leadership (on or off the pitch)…”
Just another rant? Another fan giving a knee-jerk reaction after another abject defeat?
No actually it’s my summary of Everton Football Club since Wednesday 12th March; the day of our agonising defeat to Fiorentina — D-Day for Moyes and Blue Bill. Following our unlucky loss that night we’ve played 17 games and only won four — Derby County, Newcastle, West Brom and Stoke. The smoke screen has well and truly been blown away now and answers need to be forthcoming.
Off the pitch we’ve been a farce and it’s been well documented here so I don’t need to go over all the detail of the ground move, the CEO resigning (and not being permanently replaced), the last gasp transfers and, the most fundamental issue, Moyes not signing a contract that’s been on the table since May.
Turning attention to the pitch we have become a rudderless ship. I was really proud of the quick, incisive football we played (for most of the time) last season – Sunderland, Brann, Fiorentina, Portsmouth, Tottenham, Man City etc. But since that game against the purple-shirted Italians we’ve resorted to hoof ball — ‘percentages’ Hansen calls it — but basically it doesn’t win you many games or plaudits in this league. When confidence is shattered we regress too easily. I can’t argue that Moyes had brought and developed some gifted players — Arteta, Lescott, Cahill and Yakubu stand out — but why adopt tactics that don’t play to their strengths?
What baffles me most is that we persist in picking those players who look most short of confidence and are struggling mentally. People have been quick to criticise Jagielka and Lescott for individual mistakes, but their more experienced colleagues such as Yobo and Neville are failing to do the basic things like track players back and find a blue shirt with a pass – neither player should have played today. Castillo was dropped yet he’s been our best midfielder. The jury is well and truly out of Fellaini – but I think we are all willing to be patient (or at least hopeful).
Players like Arteta, Saha and Yakubu are our match winners but they don’t have a chance if they never get the ball to feet. The few times they got it to feet today they looked dangerous — similar story versus Blackburn and Portsmouth. I’m sorry but our lack of ability to put half a dozen passes together and our poor shape has been there for far too long for people to say this is a one-off. It’s obvious our back four are told to get it forward as soon as possible — surely Moyes doesn’t see the Yak as a battering ram in the mould of Beattie?
For me Moyes’ body language is reflected by that of the players — in recent months they’ve looked nervous and afraid. We’ve only grabbed a few results because we’ve played poor sides. Moyes has always had me on side (even in the darker days of 2004) because of his ability to inspire and the pride he has shown in managing the Blues. In his pre-match build up he kept emphasising the gap in class and expenditure between the two sides — how is that going to encourage a side to play with belief?
I’ve always believed in Moyes and I’ve never been a man to walk away from a challenge, but the last six months have tested my resolve more than any other period of following the Blues.
Where the hell do we go from here?
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I’ve desperately been trying to keep the faith over the past few months and especially during the long fruitless Summer. We don’t know for sure who was responsible for the inactivity which resulted in us being under-cooked for the start of the season. However, I’m beginning to think that Moyes mis-managed the situation. However limited his resources he di definitely dither..........and then, finally, panicked.
Perhaps we all should be patient with Fellaini but the early signs are not promising. He basically lacks mobility and is certainly not a box-to-box player.
EFC as a team lack sufficient pace throughout the squad and Fellaini only exasperates this vital flaw. I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that he is going to be a huge mistake and a waste of precious resources. We’ll never recoup anything like and although he is only 20 he’s not going to get any quicker.
DM has made a horrible mess of things these past few months and his delay in signing his contract is a contributory factor in our decline.
A few weeks ago I was anxious for him to sign up. Now I would rather he didn’t and if I were BK I would say you’ve had more than enough time and the contract is now being withdrawn.
With the sort of salary he is said to have been offered we can find a good replacement. He clearly does want to commit to EFC and we don’t need another 4 years of service from a manager who maybe thinks he is too good for the club.
Breaks my heart to say it but it’s time for Davey to go - one way or another.
OK he is maybe a bit slow with subs and has his favourites who maybe shouldn?t be in the team let alone the squad but, for what its worth, I believe old Moyes.
Kenwright has said, nobody wants to buy Everton, because of
A) Liverpool! Really, well on that basis why on earth would anyone buy Man City? Man U are far bigger than Liverpool!
B) Goodison Park! Again really, well on that basis why did that Russian buy Portsmouth? I have been to Fratton Park and that is a hell hole!
Kenwright and Moyes have had a falling out, I would imagine, over money for transfers in the summer, and Moyes's days are numbered! I believe it is time for the fans to turn ? but on Kenwright before he does our beloved Everton some real damage!
My fear is that Moyes has lost complete respect of the players, it is obvious they do not want to play for him ? or so it would appear. Perhaps with Peanuts being injured it cost us more than we thought; we also lost Carsley, Johnson, Fernandes ? perhaps not huge losses individually, but they all knew the system and this has resulted in total chaos on the pitch.
As for Fellaini, I believe he is a good player and will take some time to deliver; sadly for him, we don?t have the time and he was bought at the wrong time. I still believe Fernandes would have been the better option. In saying that, we have a defence that cannot pass a ball in any direction, they are useless and bypass our midfield all the time. I cannot believe that this is not discussed in training, we?ve been poor for a while now and there is no sign of any change.
I am an old Evertonian and have had a very difficult time over the last 20 years watching our club go from crisis to crisis... this is just another one for the list. I feel sad for all our young Evertonians who now know that they follow a team that plays like a relegation-threatened team.
Does it really matter the reason we?re in this mess? We?re a team in difficulty with no simple solution, like, sack the manager. It may change players' attitudes for a few games and then what? It might be better with the devil we know than the devil we don?t.
Our players have lost their one great asset and that is to play as a team and not as individuals. We can all blame DM or BK and even the players and coaching staff if they exist.
Perhaps the only real solution for us as supporters is to stop going to games? What would that do? it would not help the players to let them know that we stand by them even when things are difficult. Moyes has made some bad mistakes recently, but I won?t be calling for him to be sacked just yet. I pray we?ll be ok and sometime soon we can have something to smile about.
I love this club, I always will, no matter where we end up ? even in the Championship, God forbid. On the day I was born, I took an oath to be a Blue for life. I will not stop believing in us as Great Supporters in our beloved club Everton. Remember, "success is never final, failure is never fatal, courage is all that is required."
So, fellow blues, hold steadfast to your dreams and believe in your hearts that we will get through this difficult time. Try not to be downhearted today, I know it hurts today. Sorry for the ramble... I am tired, it?s been a long day. Believe in us!!!!
I?ve also heard that if DK goes ahead that a buyer with real money is waiting to buy the club and he doesn?t particularly rate Moyes and is looking to bring in a Lippi or somebody of that ilk with Stubbs and Nigel Martyn being earmarked for top coaching roles. He?s not in the same league as the arabs at City but does have Abramovich type cash.
After six years I believe Moyes has now taken us as far as he can. I would like to say thanks Davey but all good things come to an end.
The question you have to ask about DM is he doing the best job possible for the club? Up until this summer I thought he was doing a reasonable job, mistakes here and there, but learning all the time. But I now believe that I have been conned. From the Arsenal home game last season up until now, Moyes has lost faith with the players, the club and perhaps even the game of football itself. Why else have we reverted to hoofball, not occasional hoofball but 90 minutes hoofball?
Moyes appears as someone who is detached from his environs, almost going through the motions, running down his contract and thus maintaining his integrity. That?s not good enough for Everton FC, for his players or indeed himself. The sense that he was building something has disappeared almost overnight.
I don?t think asking a club of Everton?s pedigree to produce a team that can string a few passes together is too big an ask. I also don?t believe (even now) that we can by playing the game in the right way, amass enough points to challenge for that elusive 4th place, but what I think isn?t important.
It?s what DM believes that is important and if he believes that he is wasting his time fighting an unwinnable fight then he should do the honourable thing and move on.
Against Blackburn the ageing Tugay bossed the midfield by doing the simple things well. Today was a disgrace because as well as not being able to do the basics, we were outbattled all over the pitch, and since last seasons euro exit, with the exception of possibly Newcastle at home we have been all over the place.
We have a lack of any real pace, or width, and the failure not to add any new names until late August left us without time for the eventual arrivals to bed in. Sometimes things run to the end of their course and fresh ideas are needed, I have always been a fan of Moyes, but maybe it may be time for a change.
We are really in trouble, when after a Derby the RS keeper can boast that he could have gone shopping with his missus, no save to make. When did this last happen?
Also, when was the last time we lost our first 3 home games?
We are also leaderless not only off the pitch but also on it. The trouble I can’t think of who I would give the armband to.
It was in the financial section of the Telegraph about 3 weeks ago re foreign investors both potential and actual in the Premier League and was it good for the game in the UK.If we get beat on Thursday I don?t think that Moyes will wait to be sacked, he will walk. I have no axe to grind with Moyes but I agree with Leigh that he has run his course.
We now need a manager who can motivate the players and get us playing football again. If nothing else he owes it to the fans, players, club and himself to be honest and admit there is a problem.
I have been a supporter of Moyes - he did give us some pride back and the individuals in the squad are miles better than under Smith; BUT if you look at the fixtures that lie ahead we are in for a very tricky season and someone has to take responsibility.
Nobody was moaning when we finished 5th last season, got to a semi final and won 8 out of 10 UEFA cup games and were very unlucky against a good Fiorentina side.
The summer was the time to build on it.
For whatever reason we messed it up.
Perhaps last season was as good as we could expect and the only way this year was down.
The board should have backed the manger in the summer.
He must feel let down.
No money was made available until it was too late and then we just bought anybody who was available.
Granted that Saha is a class act, but the jury is out on Fellaini. the potential is there, but interestingly no other club seemed to be in for him.
If you stand still you go backwards. Man Utd won the league and still spent £30M on Berbatov.
I know we can’t compete at that level, but we had a great chance in the summer to push on.
Instead we’ve got a board holding back money for a stadium we don’t need.
28,000 vs Standard Liege, 34,000 vs Portsmouth.
That would look great in a 50,000 capacity stadium. The place would look half empty.
No wonder the manger has lost his desire.
He might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but we’ve had 4th, 5th and 6th place finishes, European football and a few good cup runs.
We also had the misfortune to be drawn against a very good Villareal side in the Champions League otherwise we might have got into the group stages.
Also how the hell did we manage to get Standard Liege this year. We were seeded yet get drawn against a side dropping down from the Champions league and who nearly knocked Liverpool out.
The likes of City, Villa and Portsmouth weren’t seeded and got much easier draws.
Please explain.
The players need to stand up and be counted. We can’t become a bad defense overnight. We miss Carsley’s influence.
As for today’s game we have to accept that we were outplayed. They dictated the game without hurting us too much, but seemed to be able to step it up when they pleased. They looked fitter and faster.
Yes we do play too many high aimless balls from the back.
I’ve been saying it for ages but Arteta needs to play in centre midfield. Our back four need to pass to him and let him dictate play. He is wasted out wide. He has the skill but doesn’t have the blistering pace of a wide man. He needs to be in the middle dictating our play. In the big games recently he has been quiet. I fear we are wasting our best talent, and he will get fed up and want away.
You then go on concerning Arteta playing out wide, "he will get fed up and wan't away". Can I ask who opts to play him out wide?
Can you see the link here? "Lay off Moyes"? You have just brought up 3 concerns there, and they all involve, you got it, Moyes.
In respect of Carsley I think he moved on for family reasons, and that Moyes did not necessarily want to lose him.
I was only trying to support our manager, who I think has done a pretty decent job in quite trying circumstances.
I am not averse to a change, and would be interested to hear from others about who the next manager should be.
Its all very well moaning about the manager, but can anybody put forward a name who would do better than Moyes has.
Do we want to become another Newcastle, who seem to have a new manager every week.
If the right man is there to take us forward then so be it, but who ?
Secondly today was an absolute shambles. Once again we had certain players hoofing the ball here there and everywhere.
Thirdly what on earth inspired Moyes to sign up Steve Round ? Last season our saving grace was that we did not concede too many goals. This season we cannot stop conceding.
Finally I think that Moyes should go before we make the most dreadful mistake that could cost us upward of £14m should he decide to leave or should he be persuaded to leave.
We are never going to attract a Lippi, Mancini or someone of that quality as we have no money to spend, heavily in debt, a crippling old stadium and live in our neighbours shadow, and after Thursday, our season will be over.
We would end up with the likes of Allardyce, Venables or Kinnear! Are these really any better than Moyes?
Moyes really needs to look at himself now and re-assess the whole situation, his contract, his tactics and his players. If he feels that he can’t do anymore then he should walk now, otherwise he’s probably the best we are going to get at the moment.
If he couldn’t accept £3.5m a year then he has an overinflated view of himself.
We can’t afford to offer him the deal:
1. As indicated above his recent record (back of last and start of this season is relegation form.
2. If he signs and we are still in the shit come the end of the season, then he will be unsackable - we simply couldn’t afford to pay him off.
3. Signing him up to a 5 year contract could well stop any future investment - look at Newcastle - they recognise that to sign a manager on a long term lucrative contract may well prejudice new owners because they will want their own man, and to do that the asking price had just gone up £14m (4 years at £3.5m).
It is just madness that the offer is still on the table. After todays spineless offering, I’d be happy for the club to get rid of him now. He clearly can’t motivate like he used to - probably can’t be arsed any longer - thinks he’s too good for us now!
In Moyes I trust... and so should you!!
I am certain you will remind me of this thread if there does happen to be a huge improvement. But I just can?t see it happening to be honest. It was an absolute shambles today. The wrong formation, should have been 4-4-2. And how long does it take to get a sub on? I am sure Saha was more than aware what was required. A shot on target maybe!
The matters on the pitch concern me more, there were only two players today who showed any grit and determination. They are Cahill and Jagielka. imagine the thoughts today of the players that graced Goodison in the past (Reid, Bracewell, Sharp, etc). Whilst I agree with you all that none of the current crop compare with the 3 names mentioned, I would at least expect a player to have some ?balls?.
The fundamental problem we have throughout the team is that, when it gets tough, too many players go missing. The current 1st team squad need to watch videos of the eighties teams to understand what it means to play for Everton Football Club...........
I guess we will never get the true story, but we are a club in turmoil just not as exposed as Newcastle.
I agree with what most people are saying that if Moyes couldn't be bothered to sign the contract then he should go now, otherwise he will walk away next summer and we will be in the same situation as this season.
Today we were awful, hoofball at its best from players with the ability to pass.
Who dictates the tactics? - Moyes!
I hope we can turn it around for Thursday.
But is that man still there? I honestly don?t know. Maybe he has just been ground down. I still believe his pluses have outweighed his minuses but I genuinely worry that he himself may be feeling he has done as much as he can. If he does then he is wrong in my opinion. Confidence can ebb but it can also flow, and it may well be that Moyes rediscovering his confidence is the key to the players doing so.
But we need to know one way or the other, because the club comes first.
So I?m going to bite the bullet and put myself there to be shot at: David - sign or resign. This drift is doing nobody any good, you included.
I want to see tony marsh come on here and admit Moyes has won him over. Because I don?t want Tony to be proved right, and despite what some may say, I think tony would love to be able to come on here and say that.
So please David - give it to us straight. Christ, if anyone can take it, we can.
And by the way, I still want him to sign, and for the real David Moyes to stand up again, like we know he can.
You are 100% right.
Osman passing the ball to nobody after tracking 30m, Jagielka hoofing it up the park when a simple pass laternally would have done.
I cannot beleive Castilo didn’t get a look in or Saha from the start.
Frustrated but still have hope.
I think Moyes has lost his way and is a little uncertain just now how to put things right. I hope with time he will get out of the trough he is in. We need him. However, I think things may be in the balance it is quite possible he might go if we go out against Liege, not because he thinks he is bigger than the club but because he has let us all down. Therein might also be the reason for the unsigned contract.
Let's give him time. He has earned it, surely.
This uncertainty must be transmitting through to the team, hence the ?performance? today.
We are a boring to watch, hoofballing, joke of a set-up and I cant see how it will change. We?ll be out of Europe in midweek with only the FA Cup to play for cos we wont be anywhere near European qualification this year and those who cant see that yet I pity. RIP this season. Beware false prophets!
One other reason he has to go is Fellaini ? after paying a club record £15M for him, I think he will persist in playing him when clearly the bloke is fucking useless and can't even be bothered to break into a sweat. He trotted around the centre circle when they had the ball and went missing when we had it ? crap.
Why do you think Neville has been given a good contract at his age & captaincy, also, the amount of players we buy or are linked to from Man Utd. Moyes is concerned that he will not be given immediate run of the 1st team & things could possibly go tits up & he would only be a classed as assistant.
This has come from a good source!!
Last season we played some of the best football I’ve seen Everton play in recent years and i’ve no reason to believe we can’t get back there. But don’t expect a quick fix. We were pretty solid for periods yesterday and even though im not a fan of Neville in midfield think its a good idea to deploy him in the Carsley role with Hibbert at RB. I think this formula will get us moving again but we have two hard games against Man U and Arsenal coming up and I don’t see us getting points against those two but then we have 6/7 games against sides we would be expected to get point s off. This moaning in September / October is stupid, lets back the manager and if we are still in a mess come next March then start shouting.
Here?s an approach to consider:-
Firstly look at your opposition?s strengths and weaknesses. LFC:-Extremely strong central midfield with Gerrard and Alonso; strong attack with Torres and Keane; weak on the wings with Kuyt playing out of position (he?s a forward not a winger) and Reira is not up to much; average fullbacks who are not particularly threatening when attacking; a possible weakness in central defence with a lack of pace.
So how could we send out a team to deal with those respective strengths and weaknesses?
1. Build strength in the centre of midfield - I?m a great believer in the phrase "strenght in numbers" so how about three central midfielders?Castillo,Arteta,Cahill (or Osman).
2. Play three central defenders - Lescott, Jagielka, Yobo to particularly restrict space for Torres (did he really have that much space in the box for the goals ?)
3. Play wingbacks - Baines (born to play that position) and Neville (sadly there?s no one else).
4.Play Yakubu and Saha up front - at least Saha?s pace would give them something to worry about.
3-5-2 is a formation that can struggle if the opposition are strong in wide positions.LFC are very average in these positions but are extremely strong through the middle of their team - Carragher, Gerard, Torres.
So what did Moyes do? Unbelievably, he conceded the centre of the pitch to LFC. To play Neville and the woeful Fellaini in the centre of midfield was criminal. They didn?t play one decent forward pass all game. If Arteta had been in a central postion from the start we may actually have seen a forward pass of quality from the centre of midfield.
Yakubu was completely isolated and doesn?t have the pace to stretch and get in behind their defence.
To play long high balls to him was disgraceful - playing 3-5-2 gives the central defenders more options when in possession and therefore they would be more likely to play the ball out of defence rather than launch it long upfield.
All the above ideas may have resulted in an even worse defeat, who knows? All I do know is that the team and formation Moyes did put out on Saturday led an embarrassing and humiliating defeat and the team simply didn?t compete with LFC.
But having said that I really didn't think LFC?s players were that much better than us individually (apart from Gerard and Torres). Therefore the only conclusion I can reach is that the tactics were wrong and the majority of the blame must land squarely on the shoulders of Moyes.
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1 Posted 27/09/2008 at 17:21:30
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