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Textbook Moyes

By Tony Marsh :  28/09/2008 :  Comments (87) :
Last season I called David Moyes a coward after yet another surrender to one of the Sky 4 teams... perhaps I was being too kind. When I refer to Moyes as a coward, I do so in footballing terms and not on a personal level. After yesterday's pitiful display, Moyes is no longer worthy of the job as Everton manager and the word "coward" should be replaced with Grade A Shithouse. Moyes should have a Capital A stamped on his forehead like on of those eggs you buy in a posh supermarket.

Once again, when one of the Big Boys come to town, Moyes craps his kecks and goes for a saftey-first option. Let's try to nick a point ? you know the one. Moyes's stock as a football manger and Everton's reputation as a football team lie in tatters this morning. Torn to shreds by an average Liverpool side.

Liverpool FC came to Goodisoon Park yesterday afternoon and Rafael Benitez took the piss out of Moyes big time. Everton got mugged once more and yet again Dynamo Dave was found wanting in the heat of battle.

All week, I discussed what formation we would play and what team Moyes would send out against Liverpool and, do you know what, I got it absolutely spot on. My take on the game was that Moyes would go 4-5-1 with Yakubu as a lone striker; then, after Liverpool score, he will go 4-4-2 and try to chase the game. The trouble is, while Moyes was poncing about with the first sub, they netted again and it was game over.

Now if I knew, and you all knew, FFS my 9-year-old son even knew what Moyes's tactics would be, then dont you think Benitez would know? So why the fuck didn't soft lad change his game plan around 11:00 am Saturday morning and have a fucking go at the twats with an attacking side??? Playing Yakubu up front on his own left him as isolated as Terry Waite chained to a Beirut radiator.

One thing that struck me yesterday ? and I don't think Moyes can ever recover from it ? was the way in which Benitez treated Moyes and his tactics with such disdain. I mean playing 3 strikers away from home in a Derby game tells you how much respect The Fat waiter has for Moyes. THREE FUCKING STRIKERS AWAY FROM HOME IN A DERBY!!! Yes, read it and weep. Moyes is finished, lads, and if you can't see it after that shambles yesterday then you never will.

Not only is David Moyes killing Everton FC with this shithouse approach to games, he is killing the good name of all Scousers. Scousers are tough cocky people with an in-your-face type attitude that should be replicated by our football teams. Play with an arrogance and a self-belief, be aggressive and bold, but do it with a touch of flair. Instead, what we now get is a timid choirboy style of play with no passion or fight, no skill, no class ? and worst of all, no represenation of the fans who watch it. We don't want our names being put to this SHITE do we? I thought we were fighters.

More bad news is that Moyes has now signed on again so that means more of the same. Yet more useless displays from the likes of Leon Osman who for me is not a Premier League footballer, not even a footballer full stop. How the fuck this lad get throught the system is one of life's great mysteries. Oh and there's that 4-year contract for Phil Neville to pounder. God give me strength...

I would seriously take Sam Allardyce over Moyes right now. At least Allardyce's teams are nasty Bastards that no one likes playing against. What are we good for these days? I am now losing sleep watching this clown Moyes and his gormless face ruining our proud club. Stick your 4th place finish up your arse, Davey Boy, and fall on your sword. After yesterday's miserable showing, it's the only option you have got left.

You are a beaten man, Moyes, and a joke figure within the Premier League managers' cicrle. You have been sussed out and there is no way back. Who's next in line to take the piss out of you, Davey Boy? Perhaps next time some smart arse manager will play 4 strikers against us ? then what?

It's time for a change and I don't care where we finished last season or 3 years ago ? Moyes is a dud. A man who has nowhere left to go at this club. The sooner the Moyes era is put to bed the better as many of us will start to walk if he carries on with this nonsense.

Moyes Out! is the cry... but who will come in they ask?? "Who gives a fuck?" I say, as anything is better than this SHITE......

Reader Comments

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John Klebberstone
1   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:00:25

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Well said Tony. It's appalling that no teams ever fear attacking us. Even though we finished 5th last season, just ask any non-everton fans, whenever (or for most part of each 90mins) we turns to hoofballs, its really awful.

Its painful watching the SAME OLD tricks. Phil from rb to central. Tim roaming. Arteta only one playing the ball. Osman drops and put both hands up wanting a foul. T.howard stuck to his poles and not coming out. Lescott thought he?s a striker. Yobo taking it easy. jag?s long long pass into the stand. etc..etc...

knee jerk reaction? Probably not. Against S.Liege, we shld still win, considering they are not really a great side. poor football by top 10 premier league standards, sure we are.
Mike Evans
2   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:07:23

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Tony, I have no doubt that your vitriolic assessment of our current situation will strike a chord with many because let?s be blunt, we?re all bloody pissed off at the moment!! Although I have previously tried to support a more moderate view on TW, I will totally agree that on the basis that we desperately needed to win the game to boost morale we should have gone 4-4-2. Going with safety first 4-5-1 sent out the wrong message. However, Allardyce would be no improvement. Personally I didn?t think the reference to Terry Waite was needed.
Anthony Jaras
3   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:13:02

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I agree with and second every word..... apart from the Osman thing.
Andy Crooks
4   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:14:56

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Yes, Tony, he?s been found out. Are there three worse teams in the Premier League than Everton? I doubt it. Morale and cofidence has gone and David Moyes is to blame. He?s a Champioship manager who got lucky. Time for us to move on.
Marc Williams
5   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:13:40

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Compare & contrast our approach yesterday to playing one of the big 4 with that of Hull?s.

We?re at home & the shite know we?re going to be so negative that they can set up like they did then switch off & put their feet up after after scoring.

Hull, away at the Arse (who were fuckin glorious to watch midweek & scored for fun) have a go and get the win.

Mark Cassin
6   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:11:35

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One of your better posts Tony (though again I can?t agree :) )

1 ? Osman: Harsh but true, I do think he is a Premier League footballer but that?s the occasional game.

2 ? Neville: 4 years is amazing.

3 ? Tactics and formation were poor.

4 ? Moyes: Say what you will but he is the ONLY manager to break into the top four with a TINY amount to spend in comparison with other managers.


I say we can only judge Moyes by giving him £30million quid and seeing what he does with it.

The Terry Waite comment was a classic by the way.
Chris Marston
7   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:20:59

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If Moyes was manager of any other team in the league, he would be out now. Why do Everton always wait till the situation seems almost dead and buried??!! To be a top businessman you have to have the bollox to sack when the time is right... even David Brent found this out. I fear BK is far thicker and has far few bollox than David Brent and so we will see this shite happen time and time again.

What is needed is people power, come on Everton... let's show the twits that we will not watch and be embarassed by this hoofball ever again, BK AND MOYES OUT... PROTEST AT NEWCASTLE ? MY BANNER IS BEING PRINTED ALREADY!!!

Yusuf Bobat
8   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:23:48

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Totally agree with ya Tony, Moyess reign has come to an end and so has Kenwright's. MOYES & KENWRIGHT OUT!!!
Steve Taylor
9   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:45:07

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It?s hard to argue with most of that, apart from the Osman comments - which are unjustified IMO.

I knew he?d stick Neville in midfield as well, as that seems to be his tactical "master stroke" when facing a big 4 side. His tactics are negative, always have been, it?s clean sheet first, for Moyes & he finds it hard to set out his side with any other thought in mind.

Round has seemingly brought nothing to the party either ? the lads now look totally confused when defending a set piece ? fuck knows what his contribution has been.

I wouldn?t weep any tears if he walked after our season ends at 10pm on the 1st October.

It?s largely as a result of his dithering that we?ve ended up with a squad worse than we finished last season with, wasted £15M on that mule from Belgium & have Carlo fucking Nash as supposed competition for Howard (no wonder he?s not worried about his place in the side!). It?s a total mess.

Kevin Tully
10   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:02:43

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Once a manager is unable to motivate his team for a local derby, it is time to go. He has chosen the wrong time to play hardball over his new contract. After the shambles that was the summer transfer window, the start to this season, and negative tactics, he has lost support of every fan I spoke to yesterday. He should have played Yak & Saha from the start, but instead he invited Liverpool to go for the win.

We all knew we were going to play 4-5-1 when Cahill was fit, so now every manager knows how to combat this old and negative tactic. We were last in the tackle yesterday and they wanted it more, it?s got fuck all to do with their expensive squad.
Andy Spence
11   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:08:53

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Tony - spot on again, mate (bit harsh on Ossie). We have been utter shite for a while now. Every team knows what to expect from us and how to counter it.

Unfortunatley for us, DM won't walk and BK certainly wont tell him to. Even if, and it's a fuckin big if, we manage to win in Belgium on Thursday, we still need a change at the top.

ps: I would fuck SR off as well, seems to me we have been careering downhill since AI left.

Enjoyed the Terry Waite comment.
Dave Richman
12   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:30:41

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Tonly lad, thank you for introducing me to a brand new concept.... agreeing with (just about) everything you had to say - maybe a trifle harsh on Ossie, but everything else.... spot on.

I posted on another thread that the time for the changes yesterday was half time.
Brian Egan
13   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:31:01

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I can’t understand the logic behind the view that if Moyes goes who will replace him.
If your on the verge of a divorce from the missus you don’t say "better hold until I find a replacement to marry next". Sometimes a parting of the ways has to take place to move on.
Ruud Gullits out of work, just a thought.
Sean McKenna
14   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:31:51

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What a mess... it's still early in the season though and we have time on our side; however, I would like to see Glenn Hoddle put in charge ? his teams play good attractive football and even done really well with the England team until he made that comment. What do use think, lads... Glenn Hoddle the new saviour??
Liam James
15   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:30:50

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I don't know about anybody else but I'm feeling quite angry about yesterday... wholly predictable as you say, Tony: 4-5-1 then we inevitably concede and go 4-4-2. Saha?s come on and made a difference in the last two games so why not play him from the start and give the bastards something to think about! Tactically Davey's bloody clueless. Taxi for Mr Moyes.
Ian Edwards
16   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:46:48

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I have to agree. He did the same thing at home to Chelsea in the semi. Only went 2 up front when we were 2-0 down in the tie.

I disagree with the Osman comment. Our most productive midfield player - will scare more goals than the one-trick pony that is Arteta. I can run round in circles and disappear up my own arse. Take the dead balls off him. As for Fellaini???

I also think Neville gets a bad press. In my view ? and I don't care if I?m in a minority ? he was our best player yesterday. .
Colin Potter
17   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:31:32

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Spot on once again, Tony. Terry Waite one was a cracker! What gets me though is, that there are still people who think if he signs his contract, everything will be hunky dory, and we will start playing teams off the park. There is absolutely no chance of it happening, he has this hoofball mentality, and he just won?t change.

The only thing he knows about pass and move is, that, if he passes wind, he moves in case he gets the blame. On the subject of who will we replace him with, if we have £17m to play with, there must be something wrong if we can?t do better than Moyes. If he has an ounce of decency in him, he should resign forthwith, and be happy to have been part of such a great club!

Jim Hourigan
18   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:04:58

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Have to agree with everything including Osman, he?s a waste of space and I suspect those backing him only do so because he?s local. If he was called Osmano you?d be slagging him off for being too slow, too weak and ineffective against all but the crap teams. Do those who support him think he would get in any other midfield in the top half of the Premier League?
Steve Guy
19   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:01:22

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I waited 24 hours to calm down and still find I am agreeing with the main thrust of TM’s comments. That’s how poor we were ! I said to my son as the teams lined up 4-5-1 and try to nick a goal and then if we fall behind go 4-4-2. As TM rightly points out we are too predictable in our tactics and only the poorer teams will fall for it now.

Like many others I disagree with the comments on Osman who when played in the right position and given support is ace. Walking away from the ground I was talking to a bloke about Fellaini and we both agreed he will come good. This chap remembers Kendall and Gabriel when they started; apparently they were given almighty stick.

Crap refereeing to one side (how does Mother Riley get the top games !?) we could be said to have coped in the first half at best and in the second clueless. To allow Keane to chase a lost cause and not go with him was appalling.

I have said in previous postings that I think Moyes’ body language on the touchline this year has been telling. In previous seasons he has never sat down during the game. This season (and yesterday) he was sat in what looked like a big sulk. This communicates itself to the players and he needs to get over himself and get back to basics FAST. Pride in the shirt, passion on the pitch with team before individuals who underperform.

Our season could be over on Thursday evening. I hesitate to say ’will’ but I don’t see us going through if Liege score first.
Connor Rohrer
20   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:41:09

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Bar the clueless Osman comment I agree with all the article. 95% Spot on.
John Vanderwerff
21   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:32:37

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I will lay my cards on the table in that I have never been a big fan of Daviv Moyes - I think we play too negatively. That siad I find the article above, and some of the thread, grossly unfair to a man who is doing his best for this club. We aren?t having a good time at the moment but it reminds me of similar periods that Kendall had first time around, and yes Ferguson at Man Utd, when things got worse before they got better. I?m not convinced Big Sam could do any better, or anyone else for that matter.

The players need to hold their hands up here. The defence has been awful ? but we defend from the front and that isnt happening. We can all name players who aren?t doing too well ? Lescott gets hammered and he?s been magnificent for two years, Osman slagged off and he?s playing with a bad knee but they are not alone in having a poor season so far ? at last yesterday Arteta actually got a deadball past the first defender!! It's not a time for knee-jerk reaction but for getting behind the team. Liege here we come - let the season start there!

Rich Pemberton
22   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:46:48

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The 3 Main problems with the game were:

1. Lack of passion, determination and controlled aggression.
2. Tactics, specifically not appearing to want to win.
3. Awful passing and long ball dependency from all over the park and no options or width.

How much was down to Moyes?

1. I think you have to blame the team and manager for the lack of passion in equal proportion.

2. Clearly Moyes was at fault. We couldn?t do any worse than the general play in the first half ? no-one believed we would win if it continued as it was. Having said that, I think given our appalling defensive record of late (most goals conceded in PL), you can forgive Moyes for wanting to avoid conceding early on at least, and to this end we were successful in the first half. Liverpool didn?t have a chance.

Unfortunately, half time is when we needed to change to 4-4-2, not after we had conceded.

3. The long ball and lack of width are again probably equally blamed on the team and manager.

I think Tony?s general attitude is the epitome of what I and less hysterical supporters despise, but I guess it?s somehow acceptable if others agree.

Moyes has proven you and the rest to be wrong on many occasions and he should be given a chance to learn from (admittedly) yet more mistakes that we have seen before.

This was always going to be a tough season to follow the last one and the 7 or 8 new quality players needed to improve on 5th place was never going to happen. I do suspect that Moyes feels the same way and somehow he has transmitted this message to the players.

I do not believe that our season is over even if we now go out of the Uefa Cup, and I do believe that we will improve under Moyes. Both players and manager need to regain focus and determination and the confidence will follow. That seems to be the main issue all round to me. And as for other managerial options, at least he?s not ?the next big thing? and is called Ramos. I can?t imagine another manager I could trust more to do what?s right for Everton.

Forgive my tolerance in the face of such an appallingly passionless derby, but I?m doing my best to stay upbeat with so much still to play for.
Richard Dodd
23   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:25:14

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Thank you for giving us all a laugh, Tony. Utterley predictable following a derby defeat. We all know you care even if you don?t understand!

Davey accepts that his players are not of the standard able to be signed by the Sky4. So you don?t put your head on the block for it to be chopped off. Hence the expected and totally correct 4-5-1 starting formation. In case you haven?t noticed,it has the benefit of allowing variation so a second striker ? Tim or Ossie can be pushed up if necessary.

Davey also said that if we were still holding them at the interval, he had the option of introducing Saha but we were creating good opportunities and decided to delay for fear of disruption. Then, the defence suddenly went walk-abouts and all was lost. How the fuck was the manager supposed to guess that a defence playing out of its skull would suddenly implode? Just tell me that?

Do you honestly think that we have strikers with the nous and mobility of Torres & Co? They are in a different league because they can spend £100M whilst we are shopping in the basement. So how could we ever hope to match like for like.
I know you care and would like to see us play like Real Madrid but, Tony, we?re Everton and I ain?t half glad we?ve got Davey in charge!

Brian Egan
24   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:55:33

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Richard you say "we were creating good opportunities". Sorry mate can you tell what opportunities they were. Apart from the Cahill chance I can’t recall another one.
Matt Thomas
25   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:46:44

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In response to Tony Marsh, its pretty obvious he has never played footy at any level. Leon Osman is the closest we have had for ball control to Trevor Steven, this kid would walk into most other premiership sides. Have to agree about Moyes - tactically he is awful, to think he had £25 million to spend and wasted half of it on Fellaini who by comparrison is as about as useless as Brett Angel says it all. If we where fighting relegation every season Moyes would be ok but the next step up was always going to catch him out which seems to be the case, time for a change before we lose Arteta Cahill Lescott and Yakubu.
Mark Williams
26   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:02:20

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Moyes has a love for reputataions... Neville, Osman etc.... it's time to move onwards and upwards I am afraid. Would like to see Billic get the job.....
Andy Crooks
27   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:54:24

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Richard, the manager might well have guessed that the defence woul implode seeing it has imp-loded in every game this season. Fellaini is not bargain basement,nor was the Yak.Had we started with Saha and Yakubu we may actually have posed Liverpool some problems. At the very least it would have signalled to the supporters That we might actually try to win.

Six games into the season, Richard and what is left? Out of one cup nearly out of another. Champions league, which last May I was foolish enough to believe was a possibility, is a laughable thought. Uefa Cup qualification? No chance. So it?s a relegation battle and the FA cup. Negative as it might seem, I believe that Bill Kenwright and David Moyes have killed this season in a month.

An era is over. DM cannot change. The ship which, to be fair, he did steady, is rocking again. He should go while he has any vestige of a legacy left.

Jonathan Ashton
28   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:35:24

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A lot of this is pretty harsh on a manager who got us to fifth in the table, a Carling Cup semi and well on in the Uefa Cup last year.

Fact is, we got beaten in a humiliating way by the worst team to get done by. It’s hardly surprising if people are angry!

How much worse would we be feeling if the team had gone out in a more attacking way and there’d been more mistakes and goals conceded? That’s not to say that I agree with Moyes’ policy vs Sky 4 or time taken to bring on Saha.

I wonder how we will all be feeling about Moyes later in the season. Probably still wondering why we spent so much on one player without addressing other issues like winger, Right Back. We’re running up a huge debt under DM and so he doesn’t have a big margin for error! He may say he needs more players at Fellaini’s standard and that he only wanted to bring in better players, but: with what money??

Moyes’s sides do also seem to take time to respond to adversity... Think of when we were dumped out of the Champions League and Uefa Cup, or after Fiorentina last year.

Sorry, I worry a bit about DM’s transfer policy (hints at hubris?) but I think his tactics yesterday were understandable.
Ged Dwyer
29   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:52:09

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Steve Stott - It’s Kenwright and Moyes who ’sully the name of Everton’. I am fed up of Everton being humiliated especially live on TV and I’m fed up of feeling humiliated when I see ’one city one club’ stickers on the back of RS cars. Liverpool will have gained little satisfaction from yesterdays game, apart from the 3 points, as they beat a team who are in a shambolic state, who aren’t even ready for the season to start never mind play them. I find your comment far more offensive because your happy to back a manager who is slowly destroying the name of Everton Football Club while people like Tony Marsh CARE ABOUT EVERTON and what the name stands for.
Thomas Christensen
30   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:48:52

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Playing Yakubu up front on his own left him as isolated as Terry Waite chained to a Beirut radiator....very good.

Not sure about the Osman comment, had you said Hibbert or Howard then maybe.

While I agree that Moyes got his tactics wrong and needs to learn from this big mistake. I don’t think that given the lack of transfer budget anyone else would be doing any better. Suggesting Allardyce would do a better job is wide of the mark, with shit all budget at Bolton I do not remember them playing champagne footie with plodders like Kevin Davies, in this instance its better the devil you know.

Bolton is an interesting example. Under Allardyce they played defensive / long ball / 4-5-1 like we do (love it or hate it) now they have Gary Megson who is trying to get them to play good football and attack teams, they played pretty well against Man U. But they lost and the fact is they have 4 points...Who is better off?
Hardip Singh
31   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:38:22

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Rarely comment on the forum, but yesterdays debacle warrants a reply - totally inept and clueless football. Are we really talking about a professional football team unable to simply retain the ball. Most of the players did not even have the courage to play the ball and retain possession, negative football tactics instills fear in players and the RS don’t need any invitation to capitilise. RB was guaranteed to field an attacking team since it was inevitable that DM would revert to the same old ineffectual predictabilty - Neville to CM and Hibbert to RB. Please could someone enlighten me to the success of this tactical calamity - Hibbert has a nose bleed every time he crosses the half way line and Neville has no essential attributes to impose his presence and stamp his authority on any game. Surely everyone who has played or watched the game can figure this out. Why make it so easy for the opposition. Have to agree totally with the osman comment, he is so lightweight and anonymous even against average opponents- no strength, power or pace, may as well be playing with 10 men - totally oblivious to the movement of torres for the opener. When was the last time Osman scored against quality opposition. Only realised from the above post how may attacking players they played, away from home in a derby game - ffs their most defensive player was alonso. We have some quality players who want to play the ball, but are being stifled by negative tactics and other players unable to implement the basics of football. DM talks about 100M difference in squads - even if the majority of the RS were playing for Everton - i. e riera, alonso, kuyt, keane etc.. we would still be beaten, since the core nucleas of their team have been supported by squad players given the license to express their strengths, where our core team, who are without doubt quality, are surrounded by inept, below standard free loaders who are grateful their manager is unable to see their deficiencies. Regardless of tactical incompetence, is there any excuse for an Everton team to be operating for so many seasons without a quality wide player, It is criminal that the width in our team week after week is based upon central midfielders forced to operate out of position - ok for an emergency but intolerable to sustain this system permanently - no wonder our quality players are now underperforming. How many more makeshift performances are we to endure - it is no coincidence that the majority of our success is based upon grabbing a goal and stifling the game,it appears that most teams have finally figured out what most of us have known for an eternity i.e lets hope no one really tries to attack us with a positive formation and score first. Major overhaul required - starting with Arteta to CM..... don’t quite know what to suggest next cos we don’t have any wide players..... maybe the manager might have an idea.....oh yes try to loan a player who is unlikely to get a work permit....any other suggestions?!!
Chris Fennell
32   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:14:11

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I’ve been going to watch Everton for 20 years since the age of 6 and the one thing that stood out about watching the Derby yesterday was the utter lack of passion by any Everton player. I believe Moyes has done a great job over the last 6 years under difficult circumstances. Don’t forget how bad that Everton squad of 2002 was even compared to that of 1997. But I do believe it is time for Moyes to quit with his dignity still intact.

There comes a time when a manager with comparatively limited tactical nous can only take a club forward so far. The players are drifting and the stink of the summer transfer policy will linger long over Goodison and could well be Moyes’ & Kenwight’s legacy. To openly admit to the public that the squad is unprepared for the new season is arrogant and unprofessional as Moyes and the coaching staff have had since May to ensure that the Everton fans aren’t being cheated out of their money.

I love Everton with all my heart but it is hard to support a side full of players who at this moment in time, don’t seem to care about the club. Moyes now seems a liability and we can’t have a lame duck in charge for the sake of the club’s immediate future.
Brian Davies
33   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:31:58

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Sam Allardyce, Jesus christ get a grip. Admittedly things are bad at the moment but I for one would be finished with the club if he ever set foot inside this great club of ours.
Ped Pearl
34   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:32:59

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Pathetic post. All just a load of BS really. Moyes has said already that Saha was readying to come on after the first goal but the players on the field let another in. I really dont know what can be gained from writing such a load of bollox other than to further the doom and gloom before another huge game in midweek. Do you really want Moyes to go? Who would you have replace him? Cahill playing behind the Yak doesnt seem like a bad decision to me. I just cant believe an evertonian could post that... Three fucking strikers. Well its the same settled side he has been playing all along. Yet another worthless point.. words just fail me
Dave Jeanrenaud
35   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:40:21

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I?m finding it hard to argue David Moyes? corner at present. What has always made me proud during his time in charge has been has passion for the job and his desire to improve our fortunes. For whatever reason this passion has totally dissapeared recently and David presents himself as a beaten man on the rare occasions he is forthcoming with the press.

If he cannot motivate himself then how on earth can he motivate his players? Tony says he has signed on again but I cannot see mention of this anywhere else. What I will say is that if he does not want to sign the contract that has been on the table for 6 months then he should walk away now. The last thing we need is to carry on this season with a manager who has no intention of being here long term.

The best scenario would be for David to sign his contract and re-energise himself and his players to get them playing as they did following last season?s Goodison derby. He IS capable of getting his players to play great football but there is no denying that this season thus far has been pitiful.

Just a final point on Leon Osman. He is a cracking little player and when played in the centre of the park is a real asset. He is not a wide player however and is only playing there at present due to the injury to Pienaar.

Tony Marsh
36   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:53:35

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Dave, what do you mean Osman a cracking player? He can't tackle has no pace or height, gets pushed off the ball easier than a 9-year-old, gets caught in possesion time and time again [yesterday and Liege for example]. His passing is suspect and he never ever puts in a shift against a top side. WTF is cracking about that?
Stephen Stuart
37   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:48:57

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Brilliant and ebullient as ever Tony.
100% correct.
Someone here compares Osman to Trevor Steven - WHAT?? AGHHH get a life!!
Moyes should go NOW - both you and I have been dead right about him - he?s an average Championship manager and would be great at Preston or Sheffield or Motherwell BUT NOT EVERTON.
And it seems more good folk are coming around to this way of thinking at last. The choice of a new manager is not ours to make. That has to be left to the doyen of all things blue, the masterbater himself Kenwrong. Problem is that Moyes is his lovechild, so the future looks bleak.... the future is the Championship..... when Moyes can take over again and do a good job keeping us from relegation!!!!
Dave Jeanrenaud
38   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:11:11

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Tony,

You list his weaknesses which are his lack of pace, strength and height.

I admire his strengths which are his superb first touch, passing and football brain. He is one of the only players we have who knows how to play football. I remember the game against Fiorentina at home last season when he was absolutely top notch in the centre of the park.

He will do for me.
Seamus McCrudden
39   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:05:55

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Totally agree about the Osman assessment, how the hell he gets near the team is unbelievable! Unless Moyes can radically alter his fear factor when playing the top sides we will continue to yoyo as confidence is constantly undermined. I would rather go 442 and have a rattle against teams than this’ tight arsed afraid to make a mistake constant hoof ball to a lone striker who dives all over the place’! I mean FFS at least have a go Moyes and stop with this ’ I was a centre half years ago mentality’, if you did the majority of fans would be on your side...
George Carroll
40   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:07:02

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Well if nothing else the result gave Marsh the chance to launch yet another vitriolic attack on Moyes and players. All Evertonians feel the hurt of losing to Liverpool but unlike Marsh we don't rush into print to vent our spleen on a Manager who has done wonders since he has arrived. Yes, he is going through a bad time this season but didn't you Mr Marsh ever have things go wrong or were you such a paragon of virtue that every year was a good one and you were top of the tree in what ever was your chosen profession?

Finally, I just hope your 9-year-old son doesn't read your posts otherwise his language will be choice.

John Martin
41   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:21:01

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Osman close to Trevor Steven!!!! I nearly fell of my chair. I will not compare any of our current crop of midfielders to any of our 85 vintage as its an insult to these greats. Tthe 85 midfield dominated against all the top sides our current ones get brushed aside by the big teams. We will never be a top 4 side with the current midfield. Pace and power is needed in today's game; our midfield has neither.
Sean Graham
42   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:11:15

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Everton need to get results and fast or the club could be in serious trouble and now that Tim is banned for three matches for a bookable offence that he got a red card for, Moysie has to rethink and fast, Thursday is fast looming and with a match against Newcastle coming up it would be just like Joe Kinnear to get his Newcastle reign off with a win against Everton!
Why not play Castillo, Arteta, Cahill in the middle and get Saha up front with the Yak,need to go for it on Thursday! Put Saturday?s trash behind us and put all our efforts into backing the manager and players on Thursday, they know they have to turn up this time!
Paul Holmes
43   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:30:39

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How rubbish has the standard of football everton have served up to the fans this season. We can't even keep posession for a few passes, until the ball is launched up-field (hoof ball football) to our one and only attacker! What do these players do in training day in, day out. We need a change of direction inthe management and coaching staff.

I was gutted the way we played against Liverpool,even when it was 0-0,at least they can keep the ball and pass it between themselves for more than 2 passes. Instead of Moyes going through his negative tactics on how to stop the opposition from playing, he would be better served in the players playing hours and hours of 5-a-side football (pass and move) instead of pass, stop the ball, then pass, then hoof it up-field to nobody!

Alan Clarke
44   Posted 28/09/2008 at 07:07:29

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A lot of the blame for our shambolic situation should rest at Kenwright's door but Moyes is making a fine mess of things. Look at Blackburn. a side that finished below us. They lost their manager late on into the closed season so their new manager had little preparation time, they've sold one of their best players (Bentley), and they've spent very little money (certainly less than £15 mil). They've already beaten us twice.

I can't stand Ince as a person but what Blackburn do have is an enthusiastic manager who motivates his team and makes them believe they can win.

What we have is a clueless manager who appears to still be licking his wounds and has none of the skills mentioned above as demonstrated by our gutless derby performance. Our situation is not about lack of funds, it's about a lack of fight.

Ray Said
45   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:29:56

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Well said Tony-yet again!
You have been one of the few posters here consistantly against the Moyes ’style’ of hoofball and have suffered terrible stick for your views but you have stuck to your guns and it seems like more and more fans are finally seeing that Moyes is not the ’Moyesiah’. He is just an average manager whose glory days amount to a fourth place finish (20+ points behind the winners) a few years ago.
Kunal Desai
46   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:29:25

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100% true!!! The growing number of posts against Moyes is amazing, you get the feeling the man is on borrowed time now - failure to win against Liege and Newcastle and this time next week we?ll all be talking about who should be appointed next Everton manager.

Personally, after 6½ years I?d like to see a change now, Moyes looks unmotivated, uninterested and depressed every times he?s interviewed all of which no doubt filters through the side.

Time for a new era!
Connor Rohrer
47   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:58:08

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Tony Marsh, name me a bad game Osman has had in his natural position (centre midfield)? That’s the question I always ask his doubters and they can never come up with an answer.

He’s a poor winger yes, he’s not a poor centre midfielder though. That is quite clear judging by his performances from that position. His strengths by far outweigh his weaknesses.

You slate Moyes for playing hoofball yet you claim Pienaar and Osman shouldn’t be playing in our first team, they are two of the few players in our squad who want the ball and want to play football.

It just doesn’t add up to be honest. Your a so called football purist yet you don’t want attacking creative players in the team.
Steve Williams
48   Posted 28/09/2008 at 22:13:53

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In all fairness, yesterday’s performance has been coming for some time. We’ve won 4 out of the last 19 games; and they were against Derby, Newcastle, West Brom and Stoke! Relegation form!

However the most telling statistic for me was that the day before a derby match, there were still tickets available!!! Now doesn’t that tell everyone that the fans realise exactly how awful we are to watch? Can someone tell me the last time a derby didn’t sell out?
Tim Banks
49   Posted 28/09/2008 at 22:27:20

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This is just so much nonsense. Obviously it was a poor performance yesterday, and I’m not going to dispute that. However the amount and type of criticism that is levelled at Moyes is ridiculous. You can’t just pretend that the past few seasons haven’t happened because we’ve had a gash start to 2008-9.

Before Moyes arrived we had one Premiership top-half finish. In his 6 full seasons we’ve had 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th and 5th, and I can’t understand why some people are so keen to disregard this. Although we’ve spent substantial amounts of money on Yakubu and Fellaini, relative to the teams above us last year (and several below) we have actually spent a relatively small amount for a fairly decent return.

Allardyce as manager would be a disaster for the club in every way, and it’s absolute bollocks to suppose that he would certainly have the team playing Total Football. Seriously, what is the logic and reasoning behind that one?

One last point; this time last year we had 10 points from 7 games, were 1-1 with Kharkiv at the half-way stage of the tie, and had struggled past Sheffield Wednesday in the League Cup. Much of what is being written now was written then. Have a bit of faith in the team, and get behind them. It’s a shit load better than actively hoping for them to fail.
Gerry Western
50   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:25:50

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Tony, your posts are always guaranteed to generate controversy sometimes over the top but invariably factually correct. One look at the team sheet did it for me, Osman out wide and Neville in the middle. My first thoughts were only three players realistically playing in the middle, little wonder we were overrun. Of course the down side was that we had one less up front to accommodate this arrangement.

You're entirely correct with your Osman assessment. Against the better sides he?s next to useless he?s simply swept aside as he was yesterday he aims to look busy by running around a lot but rarely makes a challenge he seems quite happy to shadow the opposition. He should take a long hard look at Cahill?s approach yesterday not the biggest lad by any means but courage and commitment in abundance never shirked a challenge and when he made one he certainly put his foot in, perhaps if he were captain we just might see a bit more enthusiasm.

Baines may be a defender but down the flank he?s a much better option than Osman for the simple reason he can actually deliver crosses into the box and unlike Osman he certainly knows how to tackle, above all he has pace to burn.

Tactics wise it was nothing short of a disaster. I was expecting a much better second half from the team. It was clear RB had done his homework as they ran us ragged early in the second half. For Moyes it was as you were, totally inept.
Daniel McLoughlin
51   Posted 28/09/2008 at 23:12:45

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I agree, tactically we are way too predictable, maybe it is time to get rid.
Geoff Blair
52   Posted 28/09/2008 at 22:37:52

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Having watched the Blues since the early 60’s, I have seen some poor EFC sides likewise some great ones,
However, this season has proved to be a new experience... never, never, never have I seen a side in a Derby game play without heart. They got the result they were expecting. It is apparent that the teams we have been playing this season all appear to be better prepared for the game..notice how the rs were first to the ball, and first to react to lost possession..by either side from the kick off to the last whistle. I think this is down to Sammy Lee, who spends warm up firing up his troops..remember he is the missing link from Bolton this season. Joe Royle’s team were not the most skillful but made up for this in effort and passion and were rewarded with a cup win. Perhaps we need to appoint someone to instill this prior to every game... I can suggest a few ex players.....
Tony Williams
53   Posted 28/09/2008 at 23:46:12

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Well Tony you have gone full circle again, from coward to grudging respect to coward again.

Predictable post and yet again you get away with personal insults with inpunity.

Terrible game yesterday but that is how this season has started, the defence looks like strangers, the goalie is still on his hols and now the goals have started to dry up.

We are in a slump but in essence it is the same side that reached 5th last season, was that Moyes’ fault? Did he shit out then?

Oh My Rants is at it again, I have never seen you so busy on here in the last few seasons, what with us being relatively successful and you doing your disappearing act.

Roll on Thursday, come on you Blues
Peter Jones
54   Posted 29/09/2008 at 01:07:52

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Sorry to say this, but I think DM?s time is up and it seems to be his belief as well. If he felt otherwise, why not sign the contract? I too noted his lack of fight, he just sat on the bench and gave up when we went two down. He?s a motivational manager, not a tactician but its clear to all that he is the one who has lost his own motivation for EFC.

I think he knows this himself and that's why he hasn?t signed. Though I despair at his tactics, I admire his honesty and his integrity. In his heart he knows he is not committed to the club and for that reason I believe he?ll walk away very soon without signing the contract. Two capitulations against Man Utd and Arsenal might force the issue.

Guy Hastings
55   Posted 28/09/2008 at 23:30:52

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Lescott's been off since he got an in-and-out of the England side call-up; Arteta can't get his free-kicks/corners past the first defender, takes every dead ball and we still think he's a minor god; Cahill fell over in Liveroool's six-yard box because instead of putting his boot through the ball he was thinking he'd already scored; Yak goes for a pen instead of having a go at goal; Howard's a shadow of last season.

I'm probably not the only touchline dad who saw more pride, passion and will to win ? whatever the final result ? in their kid's Sunday League game than they did in EFC's performance on Saturday. I can cope with being beaten by a better side. I can cope with being beaten by a worse side by some fluke. What I cannot accept is the couldn't give a fuck attitide that ran pretty much through Saturday's side.

James Wilhelm
56   Posted 29/09/2008 at 02:32:47

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I?ve been firmly in the pro-Moyes camp for a long time, even up until Saturday lunch time. The derby capitulation was an embarrasment to the club as well as to the man himself and of course to every Evertonian. The time is nigh for Moyes to step aside, he clearly has allowed whatever off-field scenarios to cloud his judgement and take away from his own desire and his job as Everton manager.

Time to go Moyes.

Sean Condon
57   Posted 29/09/2008 at 02:30:38

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Much as I would like to, I haven?t the juice to argue with you Tony. Much of what you say is valid, but...

I woke up at my girlfriend?s place yesterday and drove forty clicks on four hours fuzzy sleep to watch the match on Setanta. After the pain of a match that I thought we were looking comfortable in I drove back to Vancouver to have dinner with the girlfriend.

When we woke up this morning she told me that she?s pretty sure that she?s a lesbian.

Well, she didn?t run into me with her car (like the dude in the other thread), but she might has well have.

Worst weekend ever? It?s up there.

COYB!
Jason Lam
58   Posted 29/09/2008 at 02:56:51

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David Moyes has outstayed his welcome as far as I’m concerned. Problem is BK is as much as a ditherer as Moyes. What’s Joe Royle up to these days?

Osman - he never shows up against the top4. Useful against the crap teams and good value in Fantasy Football though.

Neville - can’t contemplate how the fuck he is Everton captain. Where’s the passion?

Saha - the only decent player WITH quality all afternoon. For the 20 odd mins he was on. When your best player is a crock and only joined a couple of weeks ago you know you’re in the shit. Give Moyes time and he’ll fuck Saha up.

It’s target 40 points this season. Time to go Mr Moyes, wherever your 100million spending budget club may be.
Philip Jones
59   Posted 29/09/2008 at 03:49:50

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Saturday?s game was disgraceful. Tony is right to say that in the big games, Moyes lacks confidence in his side to go out there and put on an attacking display. It?s disheartening though to see so many of you calling for his head. Tony, you?re so ready to chuck the man out the door and not care less who comes in. You think things are dire now? Thank goodness the decisions aren?t influenced by people such as yourself.

Fair thing to say is we had an absolutely dreadful summer, Lescott came out in the first few games of this year with his head firmly jammed up his ass, sulking like a ten year old that we couldn?t bring bigger talent. NO ONE WANTS TO COME HERE. Why?

Because we have fans who don?t want to build a stadium outside of Liverpool?s city limits, we have an owner whose pockets aren?t deep enough, and we have a city council whose willing to bog the ground move down indefinitely because they don?t want to lose Everton?s presence in town, but then again also don?t want to give us a realistic ground where we can build big now and grow in the future.

The truth is, we are not attractive. We?re the ugly girl at the dance. There?s no rich Arab standing around the corner to make our dreams come true, Anil Ambani isn?t going to buy us, no one is going to buy us. Wake up.

It?s amazing Moyes signed, tell you the truth. Everyone in this league sees what he can do: make things happen on a non-existent budget. So if you, Tony, have a better idea, or a better manager, or anything like that in mind, then please fill me in, really, I?m dying to hear your educated opinion.

This may not be our season. It may be over already. That sucks, I don?t like it, none of us do. Fact is, we got a big fat dose of reality this summer. M?bia balked, Moutinho balked, Tiago balked, they all saw beyond the makeup. We don?t have the financial clout. No wonder Moyes put out a defensive team. Things are dire. Knuckle down for a long season, folks.

Offensive name-calling removed by Editor

Arthur Jones
60   Posted 29/09/2008 at 05:26:13

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Are you all forgetting that the team were applauded off at half time? We had them well sewn up and even had better scoring chances than them in the 1st half, yes we did fuck up once they?d scored, but I can understand his priority in not wanting to concede any more soft goals this season. And as far as being a laughing stock amongst the other managers???? What are you really on Tony? You are making up more crap than Jo Brand with diahorria.

It?s great that he treats self-proclaimed experts like yourself with the complete disdain that you deserve. I don?t need to reiterate how much we owe David Moyes as a club. We would be sitting proudly amongst the Coventrys, Forests and Southamptons of the league now without his input.

You choose to ignore the fact that the board has shit on him this summer from a great height and despite our stuttering start, we?ll still finish in the top 6, despite all your personal attacks on him. Luckily, the majority of the fans disagree with you and your anal vitriol, they see where the real problem is.... the front row of the directors box, not the most honest and principled Manager we?ve had for years!

Vincent Siow
61   Posted 29/09/2008 at 06:55:54

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Andy Crook, I totally agree with your point. If we had played Saha and 4-4-2 and gone for it at home which we should have had, I don’t think anyone of us would have been so sore. It really isn’t a case of losing, but the manner of going down. It was pitiful to say the least how we submitted.

Tony, the fact that so many people agree with you is a clear indication of how poor our team has become. And I am definately on your side, and half of me wants Moyes to go as well, if that means an improvement to the style of soccer we are playiing. Possibly Hull is a better team than us right now.

We’ve seemed to have bought some duds, players seemed to have lost motivation and respect for the manager, the manager’s more keen on getting an improved deal, and the chairman wants to get us packed off to Kirkby.

They seemed to have forgotten the most basic of things - winning games to keep the paying supporters happy.
Richard Harris
62   Posted 29/09/2008 at 09:23:56

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Philip Jones wrote "NO ONE WANTS TO COME HERE. Why ? Because we have fans who don?t want to build a stadium outside of Liverpool?s city limits".
I thought it was because we couldn’t afford the wages that other clubs were paying and we couldn’t also compete on transfer fees with the top clubs. That and the uninspiring level of play under David Moyes. If a player comes to us not for the money, then they have to feel they are coming to a club with a chance of winning something. Or a club that is admired for playing well. But no, it’s all the fans fault for not wanting to go to Kirkby !! It’s good to know that we have so much influence over players and their agents, potential investors and government departments.....
Rob Hollis
63   Posted 29/09/2008 at 10:37:18

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Tony

?The good name of all Scousers? Need I say more?

However, there is a strong point to your article which is about DM?s attitude. Would Brian Clough have been moaning about the price of his players, basically telling his own team they are not good enough? Of course not.

Yakubu, Saha, Arteta, Lescott, Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Pienaar, Cahill, Yobo, Fellaini (probably) Castillo (probably) Osman....

If you can?t convince players with that much obvious skill that they can beat ANYBODY then you should not be Managing. Moyes is starting to believe Sky and the back pages of the rags.

He stated before the game he was not exactly full of confidence. I have worked on sales floors where you would get sacked for that attitude, upon hearing that I thought he should be too.

He has run out of confidence and it is time to go!
EJ Ruane
64   Posted 29/09/2008 at 10:30:53

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Agree.

I have been critical of just about everything off the field at Everton but have (in the main) been fairly supportive of Moyes.

ie: Lack of money, lack of support from an inept board’, etc etc.

However his carry-on since THAT Spurs home game has forced me to revise things.

And as soon as I saw the team on Saturday, I just thought ’awwww....you fucking prick!’.

We’d lost before a ball was kicked....IN A DERBY!!.

It wasn’t even so much the formation (although as TM suggests, this had "shithouse" written all over it).

It was more the fact that for the derby, you MUST play your best players (if fit) to give yourself a chance.

For us to start the game with Saha and Castillo sitting on the bleeding bench must have delighted Signor Patatas Cabeza.

He must have thought "great, they’ve only got one player on the park who won’t give us the ball back the split fucking second he gets it" (only...um..in Spanish)

The reason their defenders had so little to do and could therefore concentrate on attack, was that instead of dealing with (for example) Saha, Yak and Vic, they only had to worry about one attacker.

(one incidentally who seemed to think the best way to score was to theatrically fling himself on the deck every single time the ball came near him).

Have you EVER seen an Everton side give the ball away more than this one?

I’m fairly sure I haven’t.

We looked truly shite and after the first goal went in, the towel was well and truly chucked in.

I flew back this morning to Dublin and now sit looking out at the Liffy - If I see a swan swim buy, I’m going to run down, bounce a brick off it’s napper.

I’ll then send a fucking white feather to everyone involved in Saturday’s disgraceful, cowardly shambles.

By the way (coz I booked it and have a ticket) I’m going to Liege later this week.

Should any players be reading this let me say this.

Please don’t insult the traveling support by turning in a performance like Saturday’s, then coming over at the end applauding as if.."We’re just as gutted as you like".

I personally will see it as taking the piss and won’t be responsible for my actions.
Joseph Fong
65   Posted 29/09/2008 at 11:41:12

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Connor, you said : "name me a bad game Osman has had in his natural position (centre midfield)? That?s the question I always ask his doubters and they can never come up with an answer."

Funny, coz we used to have one player who could produce the best when he plays at his prefered position but you gave him the sword that?s even more deadly than a rifle!! The player I am talking about ? James McFadden. He was always been played out of position and you never gave him a chance. And now, Osman is as shit as Faddy and suddenly, you are so lenient? GIve me a break....Sorry, Connor, never a fan of your comments.
Terry McLoughlin
66   Posted 29/09/2008 at 11:52:28

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I will bet anyone on this site that as soon as they saw the line up for the game they knew we were fucked. I'm sorry but Mr Negative Moyes moaning about £100 mil being the difference doesn?t hold shit with me. For fucks sake, Stoke went to the shite and got a result and a bet they haven?t got a pot to piss in. We were beat before a ball was kicked and that just isn?t good enough. It is time for a change, but big Sam isn?t the answer. I dont know if its just me or have we been really shit since Irvine left?.
ps Moyes take that prick Neville with you as I'm sick to death of listening to his bull shit. Everton captain... now I really I'm starting to fucking hate Moyes.
John Smith
67   Posted 29/09/2008 at 12:33:30

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"Yakubu - as isolated as Terry Waite" -

Wasn’t he chained up alongside John McCarthy ?

At least there were 2 of them
Lee Molton
68   Posted 29/09/2008 at 12:36:12

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What a surprise, all this doom and gloom! Where was all this last season when we finished 5th, got to the semi-final of Carling Cup and had a good run in Europe? Who was our manager then, that?s right David Moyes. There is a witch-hunt against the man and some fans will not be happy until he goes.

Some Everton fans have started to jump on Fellaini?s back too already. I find it unbelievable after only a few games.

Admittedly, it is pretty dire at the moment but it is only September and we are still in Europe. The new players need to settle in and Saha is getting fitter, so let?s stop all this negative talk and support the team. It will help and could get us through to the Group Stages on Thursday.
Ciarán McGlone
69   Posted 29/09/2008 at 12:51:06

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Lee,

I think what people are treating as unforgiveable is the repetition of mistakes that a 5-year-old wouldn't make twice... but Moyes has made them for years!

I mean, Neville in midfield!!!

As soon as I heard that I nearly put my foot through the tv.
Richard Harris
70   Posted 29/09/2008 at 14:35:08

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Geoff Blair wrote "However, this season has proved to be a new experience... never, never, never have I seen a side in a Derby game play without heart".

Saturday was dire but for me the first leg in Fiorentina and then the game at Fulham after going out of the UEFA Cup showed where we were headed if we didn?t add to the squad and improve the tactics and motivation. At Fulham it was more interesting to watch boats going past on the Thames than what we were offering on the pitch!!

James Matthews
71   Posted 29/09/2008 at 15:07:12

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I couldn’t get past the first 2 paragraphs given the really poor nature of the argument and the language, not to mention the terrible writing style. I am all for listening to the opposing points of view with regards to Everton that are posted on this site, but can’t we at least have intelligent argument presented in a post-kindergarden manner?
Richard Harris
72   Posted 29/09/2008 at 15:27:23

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Tony Marsh wrote " I am now losing sleep watching this clown Moyes and his gormless face ruining our proud club"
Don’t you love farce?
My fault I fear.
I thought that you’d want what I want.
Sorry, my dear.
But where are the clowns?
Quick, send in the clowns.
Don’t bother, they’re here.
Neil Styles
73   Posted 29/09/2008 at 15:29:47

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Hmmm I always find it interesting how frequently your contributions appear when our side hits a slump and with how eager you are to berate our greatest asset (David Moyes) when said slump arrises. But what I find most interesting is how when the team DO kick into gear ? and make no mistakes, by mid October this will have taken place ?you are nowhere to be seen.
Tony, I share your frustration and your heartache but I think what we?re experiencing is merely a failure to gel in the early weeks. If you need a positive comparison, look at Man U. They?re not going to finish half way and neither are we.


Richard Harris
74   Posted 29/09/2008 at 15:39:02

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Neil Styles wrote "But what I find most interesting is how when the team DO kick into gear- and make no mistakes, by mid October this will have taken place".

I do hope that this will happen but even when we are on a good run, I?ve seen enough of David Moyes tactics to know that he just can?t win important games against the top sides. I love to celebrate a win but how many times in the last few years have we dominated a team (even the hapless ones) when we are playing well ? Even when we are a couple of goals in front it rarely feels like a forgone conclusion. With a successful team once they go in front it is generally inevitable that they will win unless the opposition create a wonder/fluke goal from nothing.

Do you remember watching the superb Everton teams where we could really take teams apart? I was spoilt with some of my earliest memories of the Holy Trinity and can also remember Manchester United after Matt Busby and before Alex Ferguson where they were a big team but without success. At some point we have to move to the next level or just fade into history. History is fine for those of us who were there but what about the next generation who should be expecting (and getting) more than is currently on offer ?

Lee Robinson
75   Posted 29/09/2008 at 15:59:20

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I have never been Moyes biggest fan but I do appreciate what he has done for the club. What annoys me more than the football played is not the signings he has made in the summer, it’s the signings he has missed out on over the years. He does dither with players, we nearly missed out on Arteta cos he wouldn’t pasrt with £3.5m, and nearly with Pienaar. But the one player I have seen at Goodison park over the last few years with real technique and imagination was Fernandes! He was the one player I thought we needed to take us to the next level, he should of been our priority and I don’t want to listen to people saying he had 4 good games or so, he was always brilliant for me and would of only improved, plus his delivery of a ball was excellent, alot better than Arteta’s.

It’s also other players over the years he has missed oout on, I thought Malbranque would of been a good squad addition, our squad os so thin yet these proven AFFORDABLE players are moving to lesser clubbs while we are plading poverty and blowing £15m on an unknown. Other players like Defoe, MIlner, Sidwell, I could go on but you get my drift, not even a bid for these affordable players who would of improved our squad, and after all summer a last minute bid for hunt! I’ve never seen such poor management by any club like the farce which has gone on at Everton this year.

To go into a season with no wingers in the side is unbelievable, it’s obvious! look at villa with Young, Milner, Petrov and Man City with Phillips and Petrov!! These are light years above us now the way they play, what is most annoying is Moyes has been on charge for 6 seasons now! so this is his entire squad, to go into a season with no wingers but Van der Meyde, playing players out of their favoured positions, to start a season with 2 defenders in CM, and go into a derby match with RB in CM is scandelous. Sorry Moyes first time I’ve said this but I’ve had enough of mis management and I feel you have had enough chances...time to move on.
Declan Callaghan
76   Posted 29/09/2008 at 16:31:50

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I?m not even going to bother to dignify Tony Marsh?s shower of garbage excuse for an article with a counter arguement.

It should be noted that there are plenty of Evertonians who find this kind of trash demeaning to us as a group of fans. More should register their opinions as such inane attitudes make us all look stupid.
jay harris
77   Posted 29/09/2008 at 16:14:29

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Totally agree with Arthur Jones.

The total depression and poor morale of Moyes and the team is down to one man who seems to be avoiding most of the flak.

Bullshit Billy has almost totally destroyed EFC with his "old pals act" shareholding to enable him to maintain control,4 chief exec’s, record debts and false promises.

In 50 years of following the blues I have never seen such confusion and division from the supporters.

Instead of the "searching for investment 24/7" and "fortress sports fund" bullshit he should have sold out years ago when Paul Gregg questioned his competence as Chairman of our once proud club.

He says the club is up for sale now but you wont see any sign of that unless there is a supporter’s backlash like with Johnson.

For the first time,even though we’ve been close before I see the championship looming because the current crop of players are not "relegation battler’s".

Kenwright needs to go quickly and I suspect Moyes is now beyond redemption.
Connor Rohrer
78   Posted 29/09/2008 at 17:48:10

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Joseph Fong,

McFadden had alot of games at both left midfield and as a striker and alot of time he flattered to decieve. I could name alot of games in his natural position (centre forward) where he was awful and proved nothing whatsoever.

Suddenly I’m so leniant? I’ve always rated Osman and always will do. In his natural position (centre midfield) he’s proven himself to be a consistent performer. As I said name we the bad games he’s played when he’s been played in the middle. Everyone I ask struggles to come up with more than one.

On the wing and as a second striker Osman is average, as a centre midfielder he’s a very capable player, I’d definatly have him in our first choice starting eleven.
David Nicholls
79   Posted 29/09/2008 at 19:31:51

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I’m as frustrated as anybody at the minute, so much so that since the derby I havent been able to bring myself to watch any football, read any newspapers or look on the internet until now.

I do however believe that while critisism of Moyes’s tactics/team selection is fair enough, calls for his sacking and claims that he is beyond redemtion are complete and utter shite.

During his time in charge he has given us our pride back. I’m to young to remember the 80’s team so last seasons campaign was the best in my living memory (1995 aside) and I was absolutely over the moon with some of last seasons performances. SK Brann and the Sunderland game spring to mind.

I feel Davey has done more than enough to earn our patience through this difficult patch. I can honestly say I’m proud to have Moyes as our manager and I’m certain he will guide us back on track over the coming weeks, talk of relegation is absolute shite.

Oh and those slagging off Leon Osman IMHO don’t know a proper footballer when they see one

IMWT
Ben Brown
80   Posted 29/09/2008 at 20:19:30

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I thought this was funny. Sean Gregan’s assessment of Moyes:

David Moyes, who has gone on to be a real success with Everton, was in his first permanent managerial position back then, as Sheridan is at Oldham now. In Gregan’s experience, both are ambitious, like to get the ball down and play with width and always look to try to win a game, never simply to avoid defeat. And both are extremely passionate. If that occasionally lands them in trouble, then so be it, reckons Gregan, better than Sven-Goran Eriksson "who looks like his granny has just passed away".
Paul Rigby
81   Posted 29/09/2008 at 20:39:14

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Great thread, one encompassing a heterosexual Canadian lesbian to quite possibly the finest description of Sven yet penned (or typed).

Our team is crap, and the Manager a dour muppet, but by God there’s always the fans to cherish!
Paul Chew
82   Posted 29/09/2008 at 21:05:19

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Tony, A bit harsh on Osman as he has put in good stints for the Blues and is carrying a knee that needs an op. He may not be International class but would always be good to have in the squad.

Hibbert’s selection was a joke as from early on he was a yard short when closing down and tackling, he was also coming inside too often (something he always does). He can’t pass nor can he cross a ball.


The one true wide player we have is never going to get a game (Shandy Andy). So what is the answer, well maybe the much maligned 5-3-2 with wing backs.


Before you cry tears of laughter, give it a thought. We have three quality centre halves, so play them all there, bring Baines in on the Left, Neville on the right.
We get Arteta in the middle where he can hurt teams with Screech and Castillo and then the joy of two strikers. Yak and Saha/Vaughan.


Only problem is that we have to pass the ball on the deck with this and i fear that they are too scared to try it.
Jay Harris
83   Posted 29/09/2008 at 23:39:15

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David Nicholls dont misunderstand my comment re "Moyes being beyond redemption". I rate Moyes?s integrity, principle and loyalty but I feel in staying loyal to the board he has alienated the fans and "lost" the team.

I only wish I was wrong because I feel he was very suited to Everton given our "upstairs" situation but as time has gone on with his contract unsigned and his inability to motivate himself never mind the players I feel it is too late to save him.

I do not want him to go but feel we are fast approaching the day when it is beyond his or our choice.
Jimmy Griffin
84   Posted 30/09/2008 at 00:22:11

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This is embarrassing. You?re all behaving like Geordies. Moyes is our greatest asset and people who don?t realise that either have very short memories or have consumed too much of the awful Sky culture of instant success. The season is 6 games old. Get a grip.

IMWT.
Brian Garside
85   Posted 30/09/2008 at 00:10:59

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Yeh. Dead right Rigby.
I always suspecte there was a NANCY boy around there somewhere too!!!
We shall overcome could perhaps become our motto as we strive towards our royal blue horizon.
I too believe corpral Moyes should be relieved of his duties.
Bring on Captain Crummond!!!
Dermot Dinan
86   Posted 29/09/2008 at 23:14:29

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It is quite staggering to read the apologists’ response to Marshy’s excellent post.

You lot just can’t seem to grasp that it is the manner in which we capitulate to top 4 sides that inevitably leads to looking beyond the performance over 90 minutes i.e. Why does Moyes persist with such transparent and fruitless tactics.?

I mean,it’s not as if he’s ever had a result against the elite playing 4-5-1 is it?

Lee Molton,just one of many, talks of last season’s 5th place finish,a semi-final appearance in the Carling Cup and a run in Europe as a defence for the indefensible.

He must have forgotton how the last two ended.... badly.The Fiorentina tie was lost in the 1st leg when Moyes was out-thought and therefore his team was out-played.The level of ambition on show against Chelsea in the semi (who at the time had a few other items on their plate) was there for all to see.... zero,the old let’s not concede ffs.So that leaves 5th place ... hmm... best of the rest and a EUFA cup competition that our squad numbers could hardly be less prepared for.

Fast forward to Saturday’s derby and the capitulation is complete.Even the most ardent RS would not claim they played well.Again it pains me to say,but it is the manner of these defeats that points the finger crucially at the manager.

Doom and gloom pervades because DM is appearing in his own movie of ’Groundhog Day’ and has proved to me at least,that he has learned nothing about how to get a result against these top sides.

Added to this is the lack of willing investment,uncertainty re the ground,players brought in at the death and expected to perform in one of the most competitive leagues around and finally,a board that is rapidly becoming a laughing stock as debt builds in a sport that will prove not to be recession proof sooner rather than later.

So for all you "give it time - it was like this last season" posters forgive me if I don’t share your blind faith in a bankrupt coach.

Apart from our club motto the only Latin I ever learned was ’tempus fugit’ ... well Davey boy time has flown and it hasn’t been much fun either.

Maybe you can see it is time to go before our grand old club slips away into a place where coming back from will be challenging to say the least.
patty
87   Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:44:48

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Do me a big favour Tony - if and when Everton turn the present situation around, will you please write a glowing article about it just for a change. You are like a long playing record with the need stuck... we all wait your vitriol after any defeat. My God, you have a 9 year old son...I am quaking in my boots at the thought of another Tony Marsh being bred by your hateful vendetta against Davey Moyes and anything our Club stands for.


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