FAN ARTICLES
He Must Go... Eventually
By Dave Wilson : 29/09/2008 : 
Comments (52) :
Everton are a club in crisis... Much as I admire the positive attitude of the Richard Dodds of this world, failure to acknowledge we are in deep shit can only deepen and lengthen the crisis.
Comments (52) : Our chairman is pinning the entire future of the club, on a move that is losing popularity at the rate of a labour party leader. He looks and acts like a man who would rather be anywhere else ? unfortunately he isn't.
A few short months ago, the idea of losing our Manager would have been considered the stuff of nightmares to many Evertonians, he was seemingly untouchable. How quickly the landscape as altered. Many of the people who deemed him irreplaceable are now calling for his head, his reluctance to commit his future to our club has hardly endeared him to the hard core. Many Evertonians ? myself included ? feel the contract offered to DM is far too generous for a man who, despite his undoubted qualities, has never really been able to provide us with an exciting team.
In a results driven business, given the limited budget he has had to work with, DM's record stands the closest inspection. The problem is, when you play unattractive football and the results start to go Pete Tong, the fans can't even console themselves with the knowledge that they've been entertained.
The team is struggling, we lack leadership or direction both on and off the pitch, confidence is visibly shrinking. Most worryingly, the fans are beginning to lose hope of ever competing with the big boys again. In 45 years of supporting Everton I have never known such despondency.
Anyone doubting the existence of this crisis, or the speed at which it has hit us, need only look to next Saturday's game. Let's face it, even if we grab a dramatic win in Belgium, we will still struggle to sell more than 32-33,000 tickets for the game against Newcastle. Compare this to the corresponding fixture last season, we were sold out 2 weeks in advance! We've only played 3 homes games since, something is radically wrong when we can shed 20% of the crowd in such a short space of time.
After the shameful way the fan base has been divided over DK and the rIdiculous summer shambles in the transfer market, the humiliating capitulation against the old enemy is one kick in the bollocks too many.
Many Evertonians believe its now time to call for DM's taxi ? Tony Marsh will pay his fare ? but is it? I'm no fan, not by a long way, but the one undisputed quality DM has been able to bring to Goodison is stability... I can almost hear the yawns as I type this. Who the fuck ever got excited by a "stable" club? But history is littered with fans who have craved stability, only to demand more as soon as it was established.
Think of the Mackems or City under Reidy; Charlton under Curbishley; the Barcodes... Ok, the Barcodes haven't been relegated ? yet ? but you get my point. Changing long-serving managers mid-season seldom works, it's often a recipe for disaster.
That said, I believe the offer on the table for DM should be withdrawn; its ridiculously out of line with what's achievable under the club's current ownership... besides surely the risk of having to pay out a hefty compensation is far too high. DM should look at the rest of the season as an opportunity to rebuild his reputation; maybe by being a bit more adventurous he may even enhance it.
Playing 4-5-1 was acceptable when Marcus Bent was doing his level best to make up for his own lack of ability and the loss of Rooney, by running himself ? and the opposition ? into the ground. We loved Marcus for giving everything he had, but players like the Yak and Saha are of a higher standard and are more interested in scoring goals than running marathons.
Despite his shortcomings, it would be a mistake to let DM go now; an attempt to salvage this season by bringing in a replacement may well result in a disaster we can't recover from. History has shown we the fans can help the situation. Yes, I know the football's shite, but I think we've made our point. We can start by putting an end to the shameful criticism levelled at a kid who has hardly had time to unpack his case.
Reader Comments (52)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
2 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:05:03
Editorial Team
2 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:05:03
You can’t argue with Moyes’s achievements at Everton thus far but he’s at the point now where those successes of the first 6 years of his tenure can no longer prop him up.
The unsettled nature of his squad was a mitigating factor on Saturday and, if we’re giving him the benefit of the doubt, affected his team selection but there is one statistic that is as damning of Moyes as I can think of:
Not one shot on target in the last three Merseyside derbies. If true, that’s a staggering indictment of our manager’s approach to the big games and it needs to change immediately.
Mike McLean
3 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:35:55
3 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:35:55
The ne talent Moyes brought to the table was the ability to inspire players of modest ability to perform out of their skins. He can no longer do that and, as a result, we are seeing the same players produce trash.
If he’s lost his one talent - for whatever good reason - what’s the point of him being here? Certainly, oly a comic genius would offer his grotesque amounts of money for the product he’s offering.
As to stability ... would the lack of it explain Real Madrid’s failure to win any trophies over the last fifty years?
If he’s lost his one talent - for whatever good reason - what’s the point of him being here? Certainly, oly a comic genius would offer his grotesque amounts of money for the product he’s offering.
As to stability ... would the lack of it explain Real Madrid’s failure to win any trophies over the last fifty years?
Mark Williams
4 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:50:17
4 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:50:17
I would like to thank Moyes for all he has done for us but he has come as far as HE can!!! I would like to see Slaven Billic get the job if it came available... his Croatia team play great footy and his passion is 100% in my opinion.
Rory Slingo
5 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:52:10
5 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:52:10
Funny you mention Bent. I?d rather have had him, Killa and Faddy running their bollocks off last weekend. We would?ve still lost, but at least I?d know they gave it 110% in the derby. It used to be some comfort knowing the team gave their all, for the pride in their club. Now it seems the players can?t even psyche themselves up for it anymore.
Lee Smith
6 Posted 30/09/2008 at 07:26:28
6 Posted 30/09/2008 at 07:26:28
Good article Dave, if we were playing decent football it would be easier to stomach the results, just ask a West Ham fan in the late 90’s!
Oh and Lyndon, didn’t Fellaini have a shot cleared off the goal line by Carragher? That’s a shot on target surely? Still, "One shot on target in the last three Merseyside derbies" is still fucking shocking!!!!!!
Oh and Lyndon, didn’t Fellaini have a shot cleared off the goal line by Carragher? That’s a shot on target surely? Still, "One shot on target in the last three Merseyside derbies" is still fucking shocking!!!!!!
Alan Ross
7 Posted 30/09/2008 at 07:34:40
7 Posted 30/09/2008 at 07:34:40
I’ll reserve my judgement until ater the game on thursday. As, I think, will most Evertonians. However, having just learned in another thread of the loss of his mother last year, then David Moyes has my heartfelt simpathy. And if any Everton first teamers are reading these threads then you had better decide by thursday that for his sake you are going to play like you mean it.
Vinny Garstrokes
8 Posted 30/09/2008 at 08:34:05
8 Posted 30/09/2008 at 08:34:05
David Moyes has always been integrity personified, and I for one believe that he is not the one procrastinating over this. He said on Friday that he was still awaiting the club to get back to him, and do you know what, I believe that to be the case. No wonder he is not displaying the body language or hunger in post match interviews when he hasn’t really got a scooby doo about what the Everton board are offering him. The fact that he doesn’ give the press much time is possibly going against him over this allowing the board to leak little snippets about not understanding why he hasn’t signed yet as he is losing out on a huge contract that won’t be backdated. He is now fighting back by saying yesterday that he confusion over the contract debacle is possibly transmitting onto the pitch. Don’t you just know that we won’t beat Newcastle this weekend !!!
John Andrews
9 Posted 30/09/2008 at 08:52:35
9 Posted 30/09/2008 at 08:52:35
First and foremost the fixture last season was, I believe, our last home fixture and everybody likes to be at the last game. So to compare is not really on is it ?
I suspect/believe that it was the nature of the defeat that has got everybody up in arms. The complete capitulation was hard to stomach.
However Kenwrights antics have not helped with all of his "Watch this space" garbage. Everyone is expecting big signings and the summer turns out a complete damp squib !
At the time when all and sundry expected us to push on we completely stalled and eventually made some last minute/ desperate signings. And to add to this not many folks had even heard of the players we were signing ! Not a completely bad thing but also not the big names everybody was expecting.
I have to confess I am bewildered by this contract thing. Most Managers would have signed immediately considering the amount involved, but then again it could be Kenwright up to his old tricks again. Who knows ?
Undoubtedly the contract debacle is transmitting on to the pitch. It must raise some form of uncertainty if the Manager won’t sign a bloody contract !
I am not 100% certain I want Moyes to stay. Four wins in something like the last 17/18 games ? The standard of the football is criminal. We are now back to the "Hoofball" tactics and completely bypassing the midfield.
Whatever next ?
I suspect/believe that it was the nature of the defeat that has got everybody up in arms. The complete capitulation was hard to stomach.
However Kenwrights antics have not helped with all of his "Watch this space" garbage. Everyone is expecting big signings and the summer turns out a complete damp squib !
At the time when all and sundry expected us to push on we completely stalled and eventually made some last minute/ desperate signings. And to add to this not many folks had even heard of the players we were signing ! Not a completely bad thing but also not the big names everybody was expecting.
I have to confess I am bewildered by this contract thing. Most Managers would have signed immediately considering the amount involved, but then again it could be Kenwright up to his old tricks again. Who knows ?
Undoubtedly the contract debacle is transmitting on to the pitch. It must raise some form of uncertainty if the Manager won’t sign a bloody contract !
I am not 100% certain I want Moyes to stay. Four wins in something like the last 17/18 games ? The standard of the football is criminal. We are now back to the "Hoofball" tactics and completely bypassing the midfield.
Whatever next ?
Anthony Hawkins
10 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:20:55
10 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:20:55
I too believe Moyes hasn?t signed the contract because he doesn?t have it.
I also believe that the current overall squad size and situation isn?t Moyes fault. Well, may be an eliment of it is.
The delay in the summer signings - that wasn?t Moyes either.
Moyes isn?t faultless. The antics out on the pitch, some of the rediculous tactics and the bizarre substitutions - that?s Moyes and he needs to be held accountable. That we lost on Saturday - that was Moyes fault.
If we lose on Thursday, that?ll be Moyes? responsibility and it?ll be an absolute disaster if the team fails to get to the group stages.
Do I think Moyes has had his day? No. Why? Because it doesn?t matter how much you get paid, it?s extremely difficult to do a job with so much uncertainty and continue to produce effectively.
I also believe that the current overall squad size and situation isn?t Moyes fault. Well, may be an eliment of it is.
The delay in the summer signings - that wasn?t Moyes either.
Moyes isn?t faultless. The antics out on the pitch, some of the rediculous tactics and the bizarre substitutions - that?s Moyes and he needs to be held accountable. That we lost on Saturday - that was Moyes fault.
If we lose on Thursday, that?ll be Moyes? responsibility and it?ll be an absolute disaster if the team fails to get to the group stages.
Do I think Moyes has had his day? No. Why? Because it doesn?t matter how much you get paid, it?s extremely difficult to do a job with so much uncertainty and continue to produce effectively.
Neil Sturman
11 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:32:18
11 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:32:18
My understanding is that Kenwright has been gobsmacked by Moyes’agent sending the contract back with a demand for £16M OVER FOUR YEARS! Apparently he is citing Spurs agreement to pay Ramos £5M a year as the new norm.
In this situation,I don’t blame BB taking time to see if Moyes can improve results!
In this situation,I don’t blame BB taking time to see if Moyes can improve results!
Rob Nunn
12 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:15:24
12 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:15:24
An odd start to the season yes, capitulation last saturday was as dissapointing as it gets. But why hit the pannic button at this stage of the season?
People have spoken of playing attractive football but when did we do that in recent times? The year we got CL we were the 1-0 merchants. Hardly inspiring stuff on the pitch! it was the results that were important and that we were happy about.
Give Moyes a break, he has three/four new payers to bring in the team and players missing. Obviously things are not working sublimely at the moment but give it some time.
Every manager will leave a club eventually but lets realisticaly offer our opinions, is there anyone out there who can do a better job with the ructions going on in the background?
Anyone says Allerdyce or Curbishley i will have a stroke!!!
People have spoken of playing attractive football but when did we do that in recent times? The year we got CL we were the 1-0 merchants. Hardly inspiring stuff on the pitch! it was the results that were important and that we were happy about.
Give Moyes a break, he has three/four new payers to bring in the team and players missing. Obviously things are not working sublimely at the moment but give it some time.
Every manager will leave a club eventually but lets realisticaly offer our opinions, is there anyone out there who can do a better job with the ructions going on in the background?
Anyone says Allerdyce or Curbishley i will have a stroke!!!
John Hughes
13 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:22:28
13 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:22:28
Look fella?s there?s no way we can doubt what Moyes has done for us in the past. Put very simply we are now bemoaning not competing at the top end of the table when only 5 years ago we all had sleepless nights hoping we stave off relegation. In this regards his past achievements are something to applaud whatever the style of football?however, these are PAST achievements, what lies ahead for the future? I have one question to ask DM about Saturday?s performance. Why wasn?t Castillo playing? For me this lad wins the ball and keeps possession, also for me this is why he wasn?t selected. In not picking Castillo on Saturday DM showed me that he has no confidence in his midfield to retain possession of the football. Neville just kicks it away like Carsley did. Maybe DM thought that if we kept kicking the ball back into their half we wouldn?t concede a goal but by continually gifting them possession we were shooting ourselves in the foot. I read that we have not had one shot on target during the last 3 derbies. What a disgrace. It seems DMs tactics in the big games are merely damage limitation. Maybe he?s right to take that approach? Maybe he?s bought players that he doesn?t trust too win games. If so he needs to sort it and sort it quick.
Darren Boyce
15 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:35:29
15 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:35:29
I agree that Everton are currently in a crisis, but what I don’t fully understand why some fans are so quick to call for the sacking of Moyes.
Don’t get me wrong I do currently have issues with Moyes, I agree with Lyndon that he?s far too negative against the better teams and also against lesser teams, his blind faith in certain players also grates, his current demeanour seems negative and pessimistic almost as if he?s resigned to losing, I question him spending £15m on Fellaini but ???????
I can also see that external factors, which are largely beyond his control, are also affecting our early form. His transfer and salary kitty was limited meaning he couldn?t attract his main targets and that new players joined late, he has no control over DK, key players are and have been injured, even more key players who were injured in the past are still not up to match fitness (Arteta, Osman and Yobo).
Bearing all of this in mind, together with last season success, I definitely think we should give Moyes the opportunity to see this season out. I?m also with Dave in that if we replace Moyes now it may well end in disaster.
Don’t get me wrong I do currently have issues with Moyes, I agree with Lyndon that he?s far too negative against the better teams and also against lesser teams, his blind faith in certain players also grates, his current demeanour seems negative and pessimistic almost as if he?s resigned to losing, I question him spending £15m on Fellaini but ???????
I can also see that external factors, which are largely beyond his control, are also affecting our early form. His transfer and salary kitty was limited meaning he couldn?t attract his main targets and that new players joined late, he has no control over DK, key players are and have been injured, even more key players who were injured in the past are still not up to match fitness (Arteta, Osman and Yobo).
Bearing all of this in mind, together with last season success, I definitely think we should give Moyes the opportunity to see this season out. I?m also with Dave in that if we replace Moyes now it may well end in disaster.
Simon Gilmovitch
16 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:52:12
16 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:52:12
It was the manner of the loss on Saturday that really got to me. In some ways it was even untypical of a moyes team! no fight, no spirt. What happend to the days when we would have been right in there faces, snapping at ther heels, tackling and giving them no space to work. I dont rememeber Gerrard ever being troubled he had all the time & space he wanted. What would we do for a Peter Reid now.
Barry Sherlock
17 Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:07:46
17 Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:07:46
Dave
You say:
despite his undoubted qualities, has never really been able to provide us with an exciting team.
in a results driven business, given the limited budget he has had to work with, DM’s record stands the closest inspection.
What do you want "exciting team" or "results team". What DM has tried to give us in recent years is a balance of BOTH. Fist and foremost - results. Working with his strengths he has available.
The facts are the contract is with BK and he is not returning it to DM to sign because (similar to NUFC) new owners may want to make changes. So the contract issue is not down to DM.
Our first team coach has left. Steve Round has come in. He needs team to get the team performing in the right way.
The team/squad. Arteta is struggling for his best form. Cahill is just back from injury. Pienaar is still out. We have brought in 3 quality players. But they will take a while to bed in. Felliani is a 20yr ago boy. He will be great, but lets give him a bit of time hey?
Are we NUFC or Spurs? No.
I remember reading on here 18mths or so ago; Moyes has taken us a far as he can blar blar Ramos, we should get him from Spain. He has come to Spurs (and I’m not saying he is a bad manager) but he cannot perform magic.
Give the team a bit of time to settle. DM has not become a bad manager overnight. We are a club with stability.
You say:
despite his undoubted qualities, has never really been able to provide us with an exciting team.
in a results driven business, given the limited budget he has had to work with, DM’s record stands the closest inspection.
What do you want "exciting team" or "results team". What DM has tried to give us in recent years is a balance of BOTH. Fist and foremost - results. Working with his strengths he has available.
The facts are the contract is with BK and he is not returning it to DM to sign because (similar to NUFC) new owners may want to make changes. So the contract issue is not down to DM.
Our first team coach has left. Steve Round has come in. He needs team to get the team performing in the right way.
The team/squad. Arteta is struggling for his best form. Cahill is just back from injury. Pienaar is still out. We have brought in 3 quality players. But they will take a while to bed in. Felliani is a 20yr ago boy. He will be great, but lets give him a bit of time hey?
Are we NUFC or Spurs? No.
I remember reading on here 18mths or so ago; Moyes has taken us a far as he can blar blar Ramos, we should get him from Spain. He has come to Spurs (and I’m not saying he is a bad manager) but he cannot perform magic.
Give the team a bit of time to settle. DM has not become a bad manager overnight. We are a club with stability.
Richard Dodd
18 Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:26:24
18 Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:26:24
I would think David Moyes has every right to ask for £4M a year and Bill Kenwright has every right to think about it.That’s how negotiations take place.What we can be certain of is that both these Everton heroes have the best interests of this great club at heart and will ,thankfully,be at it’s heart for years to come.
In his discussions with potential investors,Chairman Bill has two great selling points:1. Manager Moyes and 2.his own great love and knowledge of this club which I am sure any new owner would wish to retain in perpetuity.
That’s the deal on the table we should really be insisting on.
In his discussions with potential investors,Chairman Bill has two great selling points:1. Manager Moyes and 2.his own great love and knowledge of this club which I am sure any new owner would wish to retain in perpetuity.
That’s the deal on the table we should really be insisting on.
Richard Harris
19 Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:49:23
19 Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:49:23
Richard Dodd wrote "What we can be certain of is that both these Everton heroes have the best interests of this great club at heart and will ,thankfully,be at it?s heart for years to come".
Well when we were lacking heroes on the pitch on Saturday, it’s good to know that the real ’heroes’ are steering the club in the right direction and will be at the helm for many years to come. All we need is a fair wind and all of our sailors (fans) to support Captain Moyes and Admiral Kenwright so that we can sail to exotic lands and bring back vast riches and trophies. Richard Dodd will administer 10 lashes to any dissenters and the ’mutinous’ Tony Marsh will be keelhauled :0)
Well when we were lacking heroes on the pitch on Saturday, it’s good to know that the real ’heroes’ are steering the club in the right direction and will be at the helm for many years to come. All we need is a fair wind and all of our sailors (fans) to support Captain Moyes and Admiral Kenwright so that we can sail to exotic lands and bring back vast riches and trophies. Richard Dodd will administer 10 lashes to any dissenters and the ’mutinous’ Tony Marsh will be keelhauled :0)
Danny Nelson
20 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:17:20
20 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:17:20
Richard Dodd is in a time warp! My understanding is that it is no longer all sweetness and light between Kenwright and Moyes.The Chairman has been greatly hurt by the attitude his manager has adopted over the contract negotiations and has no intention of saddling a potential new owner with a £16M commitment over four years-seeing it as a barrier to pulling off a deal.I suspect that unless results improve rapidly,the original offer may no longer be available either!
Anthony Jaras
21 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:02:03
21 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:02:03
Richard, I think half the time you really do take the piss.
Come on, own up, tell us that you are winding us all up once and for all.
To quote McInroe "You cannot be serious".
Come on, own up, tell us that you are winding us all up once and for all.
To quote McInroe "You cannot be serious".
Anthony Jaras
22 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:34:31
22 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:34:31
Can anyone arrange to have some;
WE AGREE WITH TONY MARSH
T-Shirts printed up for the next match????
WE AGREE WITH TONY MARSH
T-Shirts printed up for the next match????
Andy Herbert
24 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:19:13
24 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:19:13
FFS Richard. This has been going on forever. I think the time for negotiations has been and gone. Our club is on its knees. The uncertainty is filtering down to every part of the club. How can the players go out and put there all in, if the manager is not beating the drum from his heart.
Moyes over the years has been all about passion and this has helped to get average players playing out of there skins. Just look at the body language of the players and bench on Thursday night. I bet thet will be beaten before the match has even kicked off as we were AT HOME on Saturday!.
All good things come to an end, thank you very much Mr Moyes but the time has come for you to go and please take blue bill with you as I for one cannot stomach any more of this negative, capitulating, hoof ball and by the look of it neither can the players.
Moyes over the years has been all about passion and this has helped to get average players playing out of there skins. Just look at the body language of the players and bench on Thursday night. I bet thet will be beaten before the match has even kicked off as we were AT HOME on Saturday!.
All good things come to an end, thank you very much Mr Moyes but the time has come for you to go and please take blue bill with you as I for one cannot stomach any more of this negative, capitulating, hoof ball and by the look of it neither can the players.
Rob Nunn
25 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:52:36
25 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:52:36
Oh come on Andy. This is too much. What if we stuff them 0-3 on Thursday? Will you post a retraction if your vison of the future such as it is;
"Just look at the body language of the players and bench on Thursday night. I bet thet will be beaten before the match has even kicked off"
Come on You Blues!
"Just look at the body language of the players and bench on Thursday night. I bet thet will be beaten before the match has even kicked off"
Come on You Blues!
Ciarán McGlone
26 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:58:56
26 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:58:56
Dodd,
Can you explain Kenwright's great knowledge of the club, as demonstrated at the recent EGM?
Or is ?I dont know? the typical answer for a knowledgeable person?
Can you explain Kenwright's great knowledge of the club, as demonstrated at the recent EGM?
Or is ?I dont know? the typical answer for a knowledgeable person?
Anthony Jaras
27 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:10:26
27 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:10:26
Come on Rob, it is a sad state of affairs when our fans and our players almost expect us to lose each time we take the field and so does our manager.
That is the plain and simple truth of the matter at present.
That is the plain and simple truth of the matter at present.
Richard Harris
28 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:08:43
28 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:08:43
Rob Nunn wrote " What if we stuff them 0-3 on Thursday?"
I will be overjoyed for even a 0-1 with the way that we are playing at the moment so 0-3 would be a fantasy too far !! However given that we’ve conceded 13 goals in the league so far and Liege are top of the Belgian league having only conceded 3 goals then I don’t feel that 1 goal will be enough. I’ve a feeling that we’ll have to score 3.......
I will be overjoyed for even a 0-1 with the way that we are playing at the moment so 0-3 would be a fantasy too far !! However given that we’ve conceded 13 goals in the league so far and Liege are top of the Belgian league having only conceded 3 goals then I don’t feel that 1 goal will be enough. I’ve a feeling that we’ll have to score 3.......
Alan Ross
30 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:02:50
30 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:02:50
I take it all back. If Moyes really is asking for £16m over 4 years then I’d sack him now. That surely is taking the piss, in view of the past 6 months. Perhaps I’ m in the minority but I wouldn’t have the gall to ask for extra money if I knew I was underperforming. I would also view this as an indication of where his head is at the moment. I suppose he’s just behaving like those on the field. But that’s loyalty for you. Iam also convinced Doddy is either Billy liar incognito or his first name is Ken and he knows how to tell a joke. Very dry.
Lol Morgan
31 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:49:22
31 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:49:22
Football has got so bloody daft that those of us who will never earn £1M in our lifetime talk about these sums as if they were chicken feed! Just think; £16M for Moyes and £15M for Fellaino adds up to the sum Kenwright couldn’t -or wouldn’t -raise for King’s Dock. He and the football world have gone bloody mad!
Anthony Jaras
32 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:03:19
32 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:03:19
APU
Read these threads, in fact, read all the threads you can and count the differnet names who now agree with the once reviled Tony Marsh.
You will find more than 8-9 people.
More like 75% of the posters.
Get real.
We are shite and we play shite football that the manager asks us to play.
Wake the fuck up!!!!!
Read these threads, in fact, read all the threads you can and count the differnet names who now agree with the once reviled Tony Marsh.
You will find more than 8-9 people.
More like 75% of the posters.
Get real.
We are shite and we play shite football that the manager asks us to play.
Wake the fuck up!!!!!
Henry Fielding
33 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:03:43
33 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:03:43
The Independent’s interview with Elstone featured on Toffeeweb’s home page mentions the £16M four year deal Moyes is looking for although it carefully alludes to ’unconfirmed reports’to cover the ACE’s back,I guess.
Although a Moyes admirer, I do think he is being greedy if that truly is the cause of the delay.Kenwright would be a fool to sanction that sort of deal if he really is talking to would0be buyers.
Although a Moyes admirer, I do think he is being greedy if that truly is the cause of the delay.Kenwright would be a fool to sanction that sort of deal if he really is talking to would0be buyers.
David Alexander
34 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:02:28
34 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:02:28
Our results and our football has improved masively under moyes. how quickly people forget some of walter smith’s teams - 4 center halves across the back and fullbacks on the wings.
We played better football for much of last season than at any time in the last 15 years.
Its a shame how quickly people forget what has gone before, the famous bayern munich game was a rubbish match two scrappy long throw goals and 90 min devoid of good football - but we won and we won the cup...
moyes may be a pragmatist and at times defensive but to me he is most certainly the only employee of the club (players included) who is definatly capable of winning silverware. He will manage in the champions league I just hope its with everton rather than some other team because we were too short sighted to hang onto him.
we have only lost carsley from last years team - the new boys havent even been with the club a month, we will settle the team will Gel and we will win games.
We played better football for much of last season than at any time in the last 15 years.
Its a shame how quickly people forget what has gone before, the famous bayern munich game was a rubbish match two scrappy long throw goals and 90 min devoid of good football - but we won and we won the cup...
moyes may be a pragmatist and at times defensive but to me he is most certainly the only employee of the club (players included) who is definatly capable of winning silverware. He will manage in the champions league I just hope its with everton rather than some other team because we were too short sighted to hang onto him.
we have only lost carsley from last years team - the new boys havent even been with the club a month, we will settle the team will Gel and we will win games.
Bailey Merton
35 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:12:25
35 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:12:25
I think Moyes has had his head turned by too many flattering remarks from fellow managers and fawning pressmen.He has come to believe he is among the top tier of his profession when,in truth,his mindset is decidedly second grade.
Whether the deal on offer is £3.5M or £4M a year it could turn out to be a millstone round the Bullshit Bill’s neck.
Perhaps the two will sink together as they are supposedly joined at the hip!
Whether the deal on offer is £3.5M or £4M a year it could turn out to be a millstone round the Bullshit Bill’s neck.
Perhaps the two will sink together as they are supposedly joined at the hip!
Morgan Riordan
36 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:24:04
36 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:24:04
Roy Keane
jay harris
37 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:18:43
37 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:18:43
Doddy
why do you always quote the indefensible.
FFS the contract was apparently on the table(Bill’s table that is) before the end of last season.
Moyes has consistently said he does not know what’s going on with his contract.
THis is your hero again taking the piss because he cant afford Moyes contract and his buddies Earl and Green will no longer bail him out.
I cant believe Billy bullshit is not taking any of the flak for our current situation and instead fans are turning on Moyes who has been the only person with dignity and integrity in the club during Kenwrights reign.
why do you always quote the indefensible.
FFS the contract was apparently on the table(Bill’s table that is) before the end of last season.
Moyes has consistently said he does not know what’s going on with his contract.
THis is your hero again taking the piss because he cant afford Moyes contract and his buddies Earl and Green will no longer bail him out.
I cant believe Billy bullshit is not taking any of the flak for our current situation and instead fans are turning on Moyes who has been the only person with dignity and integrity in the club during Kenwrights reign.
Tim Lloyd
38 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:09:49
38 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:09:49
I still find that people post rumours as fact, e.g. Moyes requires £16M over 4 years.
Just where does this information
come from that it can be posted as proven fact.
The trouble is that virtually all the postings assume things that we don’t know for certain are true.
Like all, I am so disappointed with the things that happened during the open season for transfers. The indecision and
vagueness which permeated the Everton scene left us all deeply disturbed.
The results since have left us feeling what’s happened is what we all feared.
I’m sure that DK is to be found at the root of all the problems. Just what will be the outcome, I feel nobody, not even BK and Co. have the slightest idea. I am confident that they think they know and are relying on a successful outcome to the hearing starting November.
Should this not be successful, I feel they have no idea what to do next. I don’t think they will be able to sell the club on. They badly need DK for that, so nothing (like Moyes’ s contract) can be concluded until they are certain.
In the meantime, all we can really do (apart from moaning, quite useless really), is to continue to support the lads who I’m sure will start to improve when all are fit and Peanuts comes back.
Just where does this information
come from that it can be posted as proven fact.
The trouble is that virtually all the postings assume things that we don’t know for certain are true.
Like all, I am so disappointed with the things that happened during the open season for transfers. The indecision and
vagueness which permeated the Everton scene left us all deeply disturbed.
The results since have left us feeling what’s happened is what we all feared.
I’m sure that DK is to be found at the root of all the problems. Just what will be the outcome, I feel nobody, not even BK and Co. have the slightest idea. I am confident that they think they know and are relying on a successful outcome to the hearing starting November.
Should this not be successful, I feel they have no idea what to do next. I don’t think they will be able to sell the club on. They badly need DK for that, so nothing (like Moyes’ s contract) can be concluded until they are certain.
In the meantime, all we can really do (apart from moaning, quite useless really), is to continue to support the lads who I’m sure will start to improve when all are fit and Peanuts comes back.
Anthony Jaras
39 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:29:05
39 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:29:05
I want all the Moyes fans to answer some questions.
If we have so many FOOTBALLERS in our midfield (Arteta, Osman, Cahill, Pienaar, Fellaini, Castillo), who are good with the ball to feet, why do we bypass the midfield at every opportunity????
As the Yak is so talented with the ball at his feet facing the goal, why do we constantly aim for his head from 80 yards away?
Why buy Louis Saha and leave him benched for one of the most important games of the season until we are 2-0 down?
Why instruct the team to play long ball and if you do not then why not discipline those who go against your instructions?
Why does Moyes ’Lie’ all the time about your contract saying he is going to sign it when he could be truthful and admit he wants more money?
Why does Moyes play negative tactics no matter who the opposition when we have some great attacking talent in the team?
THE MAIN ONE
Why can you not see that we are shite and play shite, unnatractive hoofball football and see that Moyes make rash, strange and non-sensical decisions that impact negatively on the team?
If we have so many FOOTBALLERS in our midfield (Arteta, Osman, Cahill, Pienaar, Fellaini, Castillo), who are good with the ball to feet, why do we bypass the midfield at every opportunity????
As the Yak is so talented with the ball at his feet facing the goal, why do we constantly aim for his head from 80 yards away?
Why buy Louis Saha and leave him benched for one of the most important games of the season until we are 2-0 down?
Why instruct the team to play long ball and if you do not then why not discipline those who go against your instructions?
Why does Moyes ’Lie’ all the time about your contract saying he is going to sign it when he could be truthful and admit he wants more money?
Why does Moyes play negative tactics no matter who the opposition when we have some great attacking talent in the team?
THE MAIN ONE
Why can you not see that we are shite and play shite, unnatractive hoofball football and see that Moyes make rash, strange and non-sensical decisions that impact negatively on the team?
Brian Waring
40 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:26:41
40 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:26:41
David you say " he is certainly the only employee of the club ( players included ) who is definetly capable of winning silverware " Now, in his 61/2 years he has been with us, the closest he has come to winning silverware, is a carling cup semi, were his negativity got us knocked out, not much to show for a manager in 61/2 years, who is definetly capable of winning silverware is it? Also, one thing I can’t get my head round, " he is certainly the only employee of the club (players included ) " Could you explain, the ’players included’ bit?
Anthony Jaras
41 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:42:47
41 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:42:47
Good point Brian, Neville has a few trophies to show off, as has Howard and Saha.
I am certain that Fellaini has a Championship medal as has Castillo in their respective leagues.
Did Arteta get a few whilst with Rangers and Pienaar with Ajax?
The Yak got some medals with Maccabi Haifa too I believe.
I am sure Valente has a big medal lurking somewhere too from Porto.
Seems like the players have more silverware than Moyes, who has.....none.
I am certain that Fellaini has a Championship medal as has Castillo in their respective leagues.
Did Arteta get a few whilst with Rangers and Pienaar with Ajax?
The Yak got some medals with Maccabi Haifa too I believe.
I am sure Valente has a big medal lurking somewhere too from Porto.
Seems like the players have more silverware than Moyes, who has.....none.
Brian Waring
42 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:41:52
42 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:41:52
Okay Tim, if DK being in limbo, could be a factor in in the signing of Moyes’ contract, why then, for months, has he kept telling us " I will be signing the contract in the next few days "?
Brian Waring
43 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:48:56
43 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:48:56
Thats what I was thinking as well Anthony. I reckon some fans need to think what they are about to write, whilst trying to defend Moyes.
Anthony Jaras
44 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:54:13
44 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:54:13
Before people start slating me for being anti-Moyes, I loved the man, but saturday for me was the final straw as that was the worst tactically-inept and negative showing I have seen.
It had been bad before but is only getting worse and was a true showing of the man.
He should have apologised to the fans but he did not, thus endorsing the appraoch, which was the final nail in his coffin as far as I am concerned.
It had been bad before but is only getting worse and was a true showing of the man.
He should have apologised to the fans but he did not, thus endorsing the appraoch, which was the final nail in his coffin as far as I am concerned.
Mark Murphy
45 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:53:32
45 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:53:32
"not one shot on target in the last three derbies"...
Shaming if true but that aside what about Fellainis shot that hit Carragher on the arse? Did that not count? It wasnt clear on the feed i watched whether a foul was given on Reina there (rubbish if so!).
Worrying that Fellaini missed that by the way!
murf
Shaming if true but that aside what about Fellainis shot that hit Carragher on the arse? Did that not count? It wasnt clear on the feed i watched whether a foul was given on Reina there (rubbish if so!).
Worrying that Fellaini missed that by the way!
murf
Brian Noble
46 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:46:25
46 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:46:25
David Alexander and jay harris are typical of the Evertonians who deify Moyes because Walter Smith and some of his predecesors were so bloody awful. None of us have any way of knowing how the likes of Alardyce,Curbishley,Bruce etc would have fared in the job anymore than we can sensibly judge how their hero would have coped under a previous Everton regime.
To say Moyes has generally done well for Everton is one thing but to hold him up as irreplaceable is quite something else!
To say Moyes has generally done well for Everton is one thing but to hold him up as irreplaceable is quite something else!
Brian Waring
47 Posted 30/09/2008 at 14:04:47
47 Posted 30/09/2008 at 14:04:47
Yeah,a foul was given on Reina murf.
Jack Nolan
48 Posted 30/09/2008 at 14:19:05
48 Posted 30/09/2008 at 14:19:05
I reckon any of the names Noble mentions above would jumpat the Everton job for £2 Million a year.Against them,Moysey looks a bargain at double that amount!
Anthony Jaras
49 Posted 30/09/2008 at 14:41:12
49 Posted 30/09/2008 at 14:41:12
Look at the job Bruce is doing at Wigan, look at the football he has got them playing.
I would take that style anyday over the shite we are currently seeing.
Bruce must be on a hell of a lot less than Moyes is asking for.
Maybe we need to have a change and go for a foriegn coach.
I would take that style anyday over the shite we are currently seeing.
Bruce must be on a hell of a lot less than Moyes is asking for.
Maybe we need to have a change and go for a foriegn coach.
David McKee
50 Posted 30/09/2008 at 15:52:11
50 Posted 30/09/2008 at 15:52:11
All you Moyes doubters are living in dreamland if you think any manager (and I mean any manager) can come in and take us into the top four without money to spend wake up lads David Moyes is the best manager out of the top four he has done what he promised on a shoe string and because BK and others have not kept to their side of the bargain i.e. getting Everton to the top of the rest he is spitting out his dummy out and not signing his new contract woe betide us if he leaves we will back in the S;]’’]##, in a season.
Richard Harris
51 Posted 30/09/2008 at 15:44:41
51 Posted 30/09/2008 at 15:44:41
Anthony Jaras wrote "Seems like the players have more silverware than Moyes, who has.....none".
Oh but our saviour and hero, David Moyes, won promotion from Division 2 to Division 1 with Preston and since then..........
Oh but our saviour and hero, David Moyes, won promotion from Division 2 to Division 1 with Preston and since then..........
jay harris
52 Posted 30/09/2008 at 16:14:27
52 Posted 30/09/2008 at 16:14:27
Brian (Noble) I am certainly not trying to deify Moyes and if you bothered to read my other posts you will se I see Moyes position as beyond redemption.
I totally agree and have done previously with Tony Marsh on the shite football aspect under Moyes.
But and this is the big BUT Moyes has managed to get us 4 top 10 finishes in his 6 years and changed the squad totally from the "has beens and never was’s he inherited all on a shoestring budget with a squad declining in numbers because we couldnt afford them and has brought some much needed integrity and dignity to the club.
Why do other clubs and respected managers rate Moyes so highly after all he has been voted "manager of the year" twice.
They are the professionals not us so thay are better equipped to judge.
Now that does not excuse the shite football but maybe the guy wanted to change that aspect this season and all the promises Billy Bullshit had made about backing him evaporated together with Wyness.
NO matter what his contract is worth or about to be worth does not matter.
What matters is him getting his head out of his arse and a decent board to back him.
Other than that I see the whole club going tits up and the championship looming because there’s not many relegation battlers in this squad.
I totally agree and have done previously with Tony Marsh on the shite football aspect under Moyes.
But and this is the big BUT Moyes has managed to get us 4 top 10 finishes in his 6 years and changed the squad totally from the "has beens and never was’s he inherited all on a shoestring budget with a squad declining in numbers because we couldnt afford them and has brought some much needed integrity and dignity to the club.
Why do other clubs and respected managers rate Moyes so highly after all he has been voted "manager of the year" twice.
They are the professionals not us so thay are better equipped to judge.
Now that does not excuse the shite football but maybe the guy wanted to change that aspect this season and all the promises Billy Bullshit had made about backing him evaporated together with Wyness.
NO matter what his contract is worth or about to be worth does not matter.
What matters is him getting his head out of his arse and a decent board to back him.
Other than that I see the whole club going tits up and the championship looming because there’s not many relegation battlers in this squad.
Richard Harris
53 Posted 30/09/2008 at 17:18:08
53 Posted 30/09/2008 at 17:18:08
jay harris wrote "What matters is him getting his head out of his arse and a decent board to back him.
Other than that I see the whole club going tits up and the championship looming because there?s not many relegation battlers in this squad".
Tits and arse mentioned in the same posting from Jay. I don’t know about David Moyes going but it sure got me going :0)
Other than that I see the whole club going tits up and the championship looming because there?s not many relegation battlers in this squad".
Tits and arse mentioned in the same posting from Jay. I don’t know about David Moyes going but it sure got me going :0)
Ciaran Duff
54 Posted 01/10/2008 at 03:25:23
54 Posted 01/10/2008 at 03:25:23
I have been a Moyes supporter in the past and I still think it would be crazy to sack him now. Still I don?t think that he has done he cause any good recently. He has made a rod for his own back with the length of time to sort out the contract and also the unnecessary building up of expectations of 5/6 quality signings and not delivering. In both cases it comes across as he is trying to manipulate the club. There is general unease around the club and the much touted stability is out the window. This has led to a bad pre-season and a bad start to the season. On top of that pour, lousy tactics, crap football, moaning about refs/lack of money and seemingly asking for a huge salary package, it is no wonder that people are on his back.
Personally, if I were BK, I?d say that the contract negotiations should be left til the end of the season. In the meantime it is up to DM to demonstrate that he deserves a new contract.
Anthony McFarlane
55 Posted 01/10/2008 at 14:22:50
55 Posted 01/10/2008 at 14:22:50
I think we all need to take a step back and calm down. We are only 6 games into the season. Our main problem at the minute is the lack of a leader on the pitch. Over the paw few year we?ve done well because we?ve had old heads in the team in the forms of Carsley, stubbs etc who always gave 100% and would give out a bollocking when needed. We need somebody to step up and take responsibility, and with some encouragement I think Jags would be a great captain. As for the new £15m man, at the end of the day he?s still a kid and he?s just walked into a team thats underperforming and missing a leader to help him out. Lets get off the manager and the teams back and get behind them on Thursday night. COYB!!
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
1 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:00:24
And who will it be??
I don’t care as long as they want to play football