Our chairman is pinning the entire future of the club, on a move that is losing popularity at the rate of a labour party leader. He looks and acts like a man who would rather be anywhere else ? unfortunately he isn't.
A few short months ago, the idea of losing our Manager would have been considered the stuff of nightmares to many Evertonians, he was seemingly untouchable. How quickly the landscape as altered. Many of the people who deemed him irreplaceable are now calling for his head, his reluctance to commit his future to our club has hardly endeared him to the hard core. Many Evertonians ? myself included ? feel the contract offered to DM is far too generous for a man who, despite his undoubted qualities, has never really been able to provide us with an exciting team.
In a results driven business, given the limited budget he has had to work with, DM's record stands the closest inspection. The problem is, when you play unattractive football and the results start to go Pete Tong, the fans can't even console themselves with the knowledge that they've been entertained.
The team is struggling, we lack leadership or direction both on and off the pitch, confidence is visibly shrinking. Most worryingly, the fans are beginning to lose hope of ever competing with the big boys again. In 45 years of supporting Everton I have never known such despondency.
Anyone doubting the existence of this crisis, or the speed at which it has hit us, need only look to next Saturday's game. Let's face it, even if we grab a dramatic win in Belgium, we will still struggle to sell more than 32-33,000 tickets for the game against Newcastle. Compare this to the corresponding fixture last season, we were sold out 2 weeks in advance! We've only played 3 homes games since, something is radically wrong when we can shed 20% of the crowd in such a short space of time.
After the shameful way the fan base has been divided over DK and the rIdiculous summer shambles in the transfer market, the humiliating capitulation against the old enemy is one kick in the bollocks too many.
Many Evertonians believe its now time to call for DM's taxi ? Tony Marsh will pay his fare ? but is it? I'm no fan, not by a long way, but the one undisputed quality DM has been able to bring to Goodison is stability... I can almost hear the yawns as I type this. Who the fuck ever got excited by a "stable" club? But history is littered with fans who have craved stability, only to demand more as soon as it was established.
Think of the Mackems or City under Reidy; Charlton under Curbishley; the Barcodes... Ok, the Barcodes haven't been relegated ? yet ? but you get my point. Changing long-serving managers mid-season seldom works, it's often a recipe for disaster.
That said, I believe the offer on the table for DM should be withdrawn; its ridiculously out of line with what's achievable under the club's current ownership... besides surely the risk of having to pay out a hefty compensation is far too high. DM should look at the rest of the season as an opportunity to rebuild his reputation; maybe by being a bit more adventurous he may even enhance it.
Playing 4-5-1 was acceptable when Marcus Bent was doing his level best to make up for his own lack of ability and the loss of Rooney, by running himself ? and the opposition ? into the ground. We loved Marcus for giving everything he had, but players like the Yak and Saha are of a higher standard and are more interested in scoring goals than running marathons.
Despite his shortcomings, it would be a mistake to let DM go now; an attempt to salvage this season by bringing in a replacement may well result in a disaster we can't recover from. History has shown we the fans can help the situation. Yes, I know the football's shite, but I think we've made our point. We can start by putting an end to the shameful criticism levelled at a kid who has hardly had time to unpack his case.
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1 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:00:24
And who will it be??
I don’t care as long as they want to play football
2 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:05:03
The unsettled nature of his squad was a mitigating factor on Saturday and, if we’re giving him the benefit of the doubt, affected his team selection but there is one statistic that is as damning of Moyes as I can think of:
Not one shot on target in the last three Merseyside derbies. If true, that’s a staggering indictment of our manager’s approach to the big games and it needs to change immediately.
3 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:35:55
If he’s lost his one talent - for whatever good reason - what’s the point of him being here? Certainly, oly a comic genius would offer his grotesque amounts of money for the product he’s offering.
As to stability ... would the lack of it explain Real Madrid’s failure to win any trophies over the last fifty years?
4 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:50:17
5 Posted 30/09/2008 at 06:52:10
6 Posted 30/09/2008 at 07:26:28
Oh and Lyndon, didn’t Fellaini have a shot cleared off the goal line by Carragher? That’s a shot on target surely? Still, "One shot on target in the last three Merseyside derbies" is still fucking shocking!!!!!!
7 Posted 30/09/2008 at 07:34:40
8 Posted 30/09/2008 at 08:34:05
9 Posted 30/09/2008 at 08:52:35
I suspect/believe that it was the nature of the defeat that has got everybody up in arms. The complete capitulation was hard to stomach.
However Kenwrights antics have not helped with all of his "Watch this space" garbage. Everyone is expecting big signings and the summer turns out a complete damp squib !
At the time when all and sundry expected us to push on we completely stalled and eventually made some last minute/ desperate signings. And to add to this not many folks had even heard of the players we were signing ! Not a completely bad thing but also not the big names everybody was expecting.
I have to confess I am bewildered by this contract thing. Most Managers would have signed immediately considering the amount involved, but then again it could be Kenwright up to his old tricks again. Who knows ?
Undoubtedly the contract debacle is transmitting on to the pitch. It must raise some form of uncertainty if the Manager won’t sign a bloody contract !
I am not 100% certain I want Moyes to stay. Four wins in something like the last 17/18 games ? The standard of the football is criminal. We are now back to the "Hoofball" tactics and completely bypassing the midfield.
Whatever next ?
10 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:20:55
I also believe that the current overall squad size and situation isn?t Moyes fault. Well, may be an eliment of it is.
The delay in the summer signings - that wasn?t Moyes either.
Moyes isn?t faultless. The antics out on the pitch, some of the rediculous tactics and the bizarre substitutions - that?s Moyes and he needs to be held accountable. That we lost on Saturday - that was Moyes fault.
If we lose on Thursday, that?ll be Moyes? responsibility and it?ll be an absolute disaster if the team fails to get to the group stages.
Do I think Moyes has had his day? No. Why? Because it doesn?t matter how much you get paid, it?s extremely difficult to do a job with so much uncertainty and continue to produce effectively.
11 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:32:18
In this situation,I don’t blame BB taking time to see if Moyes can improve results!
12 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:15:24
People have spoken of playing attractive football but when did we do that in recent times? The year we got CL we were the 1-0 merchants. Hardly inspiring stuff on the pitch! it was the results that were important and that we were happy about.
Give Moyes a break, he has three/four new payers to bring in the team and players missing. Obviously things are not working sublimely at the moment but give it some time.
Every manager will leave a club eventually but lets realisticaly offer our opinions, is there anyone out there who can do a better job with the ructions going on in the background?
Anyone says Allerdyce or Curbishley i will have a stroke!!!
13 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:22:28
14 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:35:29
Don’t get me wrong I do currently have issues with Moyes, I agree with Lyndon that he?s far too negative against the better teams and also against lesser teams, his blind faith in certain players also grates, his current demeanour seems negative and pessimistic almost as if he?s resigned to losing, I question him spending £15m on Fellaini but ???????
I can also see that external factors, which are largely beyond his control, are also affecting our early form. His transfer and salary kitty was limited meaning he couldn?t attract his main targets and that new players joined late, he has no control over DK, key players are and have been injured, even more key players who were injured in the past are still not up to match fitness (Arteta, Osman and Yobo).
Bearing all of this in mind, together with last season success, I definitely think we should give Moyes the opportunity to see this season out. I?m also with Dave in that if we replace Moyes now it may well end in disaster.
15 Posted 30/09/2008 at 09:52:12
16 Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:07:46
despite his undoubted qualities, has never really been able to provide us with an exciting team.
in a results driven business, given the limited budget he has had to work with, DM’s record stands the closest inspection.
What do you want "exciting team" or "results team". What DM has tried to give us in recent years is a balance of BOTH. Fist and foremost - results. Working with his strengths he has available.
The facts are the contract is with BK and he is not returning it to DM to sign because (similar to NUFC) new owners may want to make changes. So the contract issue is not down to DM.
Our first team coach has left. Steve Round has come in. He needs team to get the team performing in the right way.
The team/squad. Arteta is struggling for his best form. Cahill is just back from injury. Pienaar is still out. We have brought in 3 quality players. But they will take a while to bed in. Felliani is a 20yr ago boy. He will be great, but lets give him a bit of time hey?
Are we NUFC or Spurs? No.
I remember reading on here 18mths or so ago; Moyes has taken us a far as he can blar blar Ramos, we should get him from Spain. He has come to Spurs (and I’m not saying he is a bad manager) but he cannot perform magic.
Give the team a bit of time to settle. DM has not become a bad manager overnight. We are a club with stability.
17 Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:26:24
In his discussions with potential investors,Chairman Bill has two great selling points:1. Manager Moyes and 2.his own great love and knowledge of this club which I am sure any new owner would wish to retain in perpetuity.
That’s the deal on the table we should really be insisting on.
18 Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:49:23
Well when we were lacking heroes on the pitch on Saturday, it’s good to know that the real ’heroes’ are steering the club in the right direction and will be at the helm for many years to come. All we need is a fair wind and all of our sailors (fans) to support Captain Moyes and Admiral Kenwright so that we can sail to exotic lands and bring back vast riches and trophies. Richard Dodd will administer 10 lashes to any dissenters and the ’mutinous’ Tony Marsh will be keelhauled :0)
19 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:17:20
20 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:02:03
Come on, own up, tell us that you are winding us all up once and for all.
To quote McInroe "You cannot be serious".
21 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:34:31
WE AGREE WITH TONY MARSH
T-Shirts printed up for the next match????
22 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:19:13
Moyes over the years has been all about passion and this has helped to get average players playing out of there skins. Just look at the body language of the players and bench on Thursday night. I bet thet will be beaten before the match has even kicked off as we were AT HOME on Saturday!.
All good things come to an end, thank you very much Mr Moyes but the time has come for you to go and please take blue bill with you as I for one cannot stomach any more of this negative, capitulating, hoof ball and by the look of it neither can the players.
23 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:52:36
"Just look at the body language of the players and bench on Thursday night. I bet thet will be beaten before the match has even kicked off"
Come on You Blues!
24 Posted 30/09/2008 at 11:58:56
Can you explain Kenwright's great knowledge of the club, as demonstrated at the recent EGM?
Or is ?I dont know? the typical answer for a knowledgeable person?
25 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:10:26
That is the plain and simple truth of the matter at present.
26 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:08:43
I will be overjoyed for even a 0-1 with the way that we are playing at the moment so 0-3 would be a fantasy too far !! However given that we’ve conceded 13 goals in the league so far and Liege are top of the Belgian league having only conceded 3 goals then I don’t feel that 1 goal will be enough. I’ve a feeling that we’ll have to score 3.......
27 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:02:50
28 Posted 30/09/2008 at 12:49:22
29 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:03:19
Read these threads, in fact, read all the threads you can and count the differnet names who now agree with the once reviled Tony Marsh.
You will find more than 8-9 people.
More like 75% of the posters.
We are shite and we play shite football that the manager asks us to play.
Wake the fuck up!!!!!
30 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:03:43
Although a Moyes admirer, I do think he is being greedy if that truly is the cause of the delay.Kenwright would be a fool to sanction that sort of deal if he really is talking to would0be buyers.
31 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:02:28
We played better football for much of last season than at any time in the last 15 years.
Its a shame how quickly people forget what has gone before, the famous bayern munich game was a rubbish match two scrappy long throw goals and 90 min devoid of good football - but we won and we won the cup...
moyes may be a pragmatist and at times defensive but to me he is most certainly the only employee of the club (players included) who is definatly capable of winning silverware. He will manage in the champions league I just hope its with everton rather than some other team because we were too short sighted to hang onto him.
we have only lost carsley from last years team - the new boys havent even been with the club a month, we will settle the team will Gel and we will win games.
32 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:12:25
Whether the deal on offer is £3.5M or £4M a year it could turn out to be a millstone round the Bullshit Bill’s neck.
Perhaps the two will sink together as they are supposedly joined at the hip!
33 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:24:04
34 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:18:43
why do you always quote the indefensible.
FFS the contract was apparently on the table(Bill’s table that is) before the end of last season.
Moyes has consistently said he does not know what’s going on with his contract.
THis is your hero again taking the piss because he cant afford Moyes contract and his buddies Earl and Green will no longer bail him out.
I cant believe Billy bullshit is not taking any of the flak for our current situation and instead fans are turning on Moyes who has been the only person with dignity and integrity in the club during Kenwrights reign.
35 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:09:49
Just where does this information
come from that it can be posted as proven fact.
The trouble is that virtually all the postings assume things that we don’t know for certain are true.
Like all, I am so disappointed with the things that happened during the open season for transfers. The indecision and
vagueness which permeated the Everton scene left us all deeply disturbed.
The results since have left us feeling what’s happened is what we all feared.
I’m sure that DK is to be found at the root of all the problems. Just what will be the outcome, I feel nobody, not even BK and Co. have the slightest idea. I am confident that they think they know and are relying on a successful outcome to the hearing starting November.
Should this not be successful, I feel they have no idea what to do next. I don’t think they will be able to sell the club on. They badly need DK for that, so nothing (like Moyes’ s contract) can be concluded until they are certain.
In the meantime, all we can really do (apart from moaning, quite useless really), is to continue to support the lads who I’m sure will start to improve when all are fit and Peanuts comes back.
36 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:29:05
If we have so many FOOTBALLERS in our midfield (Arteta, Osman, Cahill, Pienaar, Fellaini, Castillo), who are good with the ball to feet, why do we bypass the midfield at every opportunity????
As the Yak is so talented with the ball at his feet facing the goal, why do we constantly aim for his head from 80 yards away?
Why buy Louis Saha and leave him benched for one of the most important games of the season until we are 2-0 down?
Why instruct the team to play long ball and if you do not then why not discipline those who go against your instructions?
Why does Moyes ’Lie’ all the time about your contract saying he is going to sign it when he could be truthful and admit he wants more money?
Why does Moyes play negative tactics no matter who the opposition when we have some great attacking talent in the team?
THE MAIN ONE
Why can you not see that we are shite and play shite, unnatractive hoofball football and see that Moyes make rash, strange and non-sensical decisions that impact negatively on the team?
37 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:26:41
38 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:42:47
I am certain that Fellaini has a Championship medal as has Castillo in their respective leagues.
Did Arteta get a few whilst with Rangers and Pienaar with Ajax?
The Yak got some medals with Maccabi Haifa too I believe.
I am sure Valente has a big medal lurking somewhere too from Porto.
Seems like the players have more silverware than Moyes, who has.....none.
39 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:41:52
40 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:48:56
41 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:54:13
It had been bad before but is only getting worse and was a true showing of the man.
He should have apologised to the fans but he did not, thus endorsing the appraoch, which was the final nail in his coffin as far as I am concerned.
42 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:53:32
Shaming if true but that aside what about Fellainis shot that hit Carragher on the arse? Did that not count? It wasnt clear on the feed i watched whether a foul was given on Reina there (rubbish if so!).
Worrying that Fellaini missed that by the way!
43 Posted 30/09/2008 at 13:46:25
To say Moyes has generally done well for Everton is one thing but to hold him up as irreplaceable is quite something else!
44 Posted 30/09/2008 at 14:04:47
45 Posted 30/09/2008 at 14:19:05
46 Posted 30/09/2008 at 14:41:12
I would take that style anyday over the shite we are currently seeing.
Bruce must be on a hell of a lot less than Moyes is asking for.
Maybe we need to have a change and go for a foriegn coach.
47 Posted 30/09/2008 at 15:52:11
48 Posted 30/09/2008 at 15:44:41
Oh but our saviour and hero, David Moyes, won promotion from Division 2 to Division 1 with Preston and since then..........
49 Posted 30/09/2008 at 16:14:27
I totally agree and have done previously with Tony Marsh on the shite football aspect under Moyes.
But and this is the big BUT Moyes has managed to get us 4 top 10 finishes in his 6 years and changed the squad totally from the "has beens and never was’s he inherited all on a shoestring budget with a squad declining in numbers because we couldnt afford them and has brought some much needed integrity and dignity to the club.
Why do other clubs and respected managers rate Moyes so highly after all he has been voted "manager of the year" twice.
They are the professionals not us so thay are better equipped to judge.
Now that does not excuse the shite football but maybe the guy wanted to change that aspect this season and all the promises Billy Bullshit had made about backing him evaporated together with Wyness.
NO matter what his contract is worth or about to be worth does not matter.
What matters is him getting his head out of his arse and a decent board to back him.
Other than that I see the whole club going tits up and the championship looming because there’s not many relegation battlers in this squad.
50 Posted 30/09/2008 at 17:18:08
Other than that I see the whole club going tits up and the championship looming because there?s not many relegation battlers in this squad".
Tits and arse mentioned in the same posting from Jay. I don’t know about David Moyes going but it sure got me going :0)
51 Posted 01/10/2008 at 03:25:23
Personally, if I were BK, I?d say that the contract negotiations should be left til the end of the season. In the meantime it is up to DM to demonstrate that he deserves a new contract.
52 Posted 01/10/2008 at 14:22:50