No matter how badly we played, I tried to extract any miniscule particles of hope and positivity and look forward with excitement to our next game.
I was 13.
Over the years, since my first Goodison experience (Wimbledon 0-0, Warzycha hit the Park End bar) I have always looked for the positives, because I had to.
Kendall left and a new wave of optimism gripped me, just as Mike Walker came in.
I had watched Walker's Norwich City destroying teams at will. Chris Sutton banging them in for fun, Ruel Fox being, well, a fox in the box... and Jeremy Goss putting his namesakes Matt and Luke from Bros. to shame with some stirling midfield performances.
Indeed, if anything told us that what the Norwich Walker had built were the real deal, the 5-1 reverse at Goodison did when Efan Ekoku ran riot. I sat on the front row of the Gwladys Street that day (hoping to get on the telly) in awe at the pace and power of Norwich.
Sadly, Walker was shite and had to go; however, a new dawn was around the corner.
Joe Royle rode in on the proverbial white (and blue) horse and not only did he turn Duncan Ferguson into a legend, he also injected Paul Rideout with the ability to be bloody good at scoring goals and steered us to safety, not to mention our last piece of silverware, the FA Cup.
Although the final was better, I will never forget this day as I cried like a baby at full-time and my mates had to console me as I never thought I would see the day when we won anything due to how shite we had been.
Royle then gave us Kanchelskis and Limpar, along with some fantastic flowing football and despite having to combative players in the heart of the midfield in Horne and Parkinson (plus the useless Samways) we managed a sixth place finish. Gary Speed was also a legend for us that season.
Royle departed in a row over cash for Tore Andre Flo who at the time would have cost us less than £250,000 (he then went on to join several clubs for millions).
I feel a pang of depression returning when I think of the next 2 managers so I will spare you all the same horrible flashbacks and skip forward quickly...
We all said, "David who?" when he breezed into Goodision Park for that first press conference but when he muttered those immortal words, we all knew that Mr Moyes was our own 'Special' one, and right we were.
My own highlights were the 2002-03 season when we had the best defence for years and Rooney was terrifying every oppostion player on the pitch with his youthful yet fearless approach. I remember all the fantastic away days that season (Leeds & Blackburn stand out the most) although I spent most of those trips in a drunken state.
Yes, we did progress league position wise, then dropped, then progressed, then dropped, then progressed so on.....anyway, what I am saying is that David has given us some fantastic memories.
Today, however, I am a complete and utter Tony Marsh.
Up to Saturday, I was probably a Tony Dodd or a Richard Marsh... the lovechild of the two people we know so well from these pages.
Since the full-time whistle on Saturday, I have had enough.
Here are the reasons why:
- Poor tactical awareness
- Negative team selection
- Long ball approach
- Delayed substitutions
- No plan B
- Strange substitution when it did come
- No passion or commitment
- Clear lack of leadership or guidance
- No apology from the worst Derby performance for a long, long time
- And, finally, worst of all, no hint of an explaination for any of the above.
It is not good enough.
Wimbledon only won the games they did in the 80s and 90s because they were hard as nails and struck fear into the opposition. As far as I can see, the only team scared on the pitch when we are involved is us.
That is why I sit here and state with no hesitation:
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 01/10/2008 at 06:35:43
2 Posted 01/10/2008 at 06:44:00
3 Posted 01/10/2008 at 07:37:11
GET RID ASAP!
4 Posted 01/10/2008 at 08:13:51
Moyes is a torn and broken man, you can’t run with the hare and the hounds. It would probably be in his own interests and piece of mind to go.
Full respect for the work done under difficult circumstances (BK KW DK)
Champions League for integrity.
Championship for 451/hofball and tactics.
5 Posted 01/10/2008 at 08:27:18
6 Posted 01/10/2008 at 08:32:14
I’m willing to let the season roll on and see what happens, Tony Marsh was posting identical stuff this time last year and we all know what happened.
We’ll see, there’s still along season ahead. I side with neither though, I have my own views and I’m sure alot of other posters do aswell.
7 Posted 01/10/2008 at 09:01:08
As many people have said we were in a similair position last year and we all know what happened then.
For me to many supporters are just wishing Moyes and the team Fail just so they can come on here and post an article saying they were right.
8 Posted 01/10/2008 at 09:13:27
Thats it! Fuck this window-cleaning lark! Where did I put that application form for the vacancy at Newcastle?
9 Posted 01/10/2008 at 09:17:45
The major difference is how vocal people become based on current form. Last season Marsh virtually dissappeared from the radar because results were generally good while so far this season he has been like a pig in the proverbial because results are bad and he can vent spleen once again.
Dodd on the other hand is making the odd muted comment here and there just to keep his hand in while he waits for the season to get going and he can safely put his head above the parapet again.
Personally I am filled with sadness at the current form but I think things will turn around and we will get on a run again like we do most seasons. Let’s hope that starts on Thursday. If not Marsh will probably need a new keyboard by the weekend.
10 Posted 01/10/2008 at 09:19:32
Well they do say that opposites attract in a relationship, so Anthony is the (now not so) secret lovechild of Tony Marsh and Richard Dodd :0)
How did this happen we may ask ?
Stef Chedgzoy wrote " I would have to be in Tony’s gang, he speaks a hell of a lot of sense... while Doddy, passionate as he is, is just a suger-coated flower-powered hippie spreading the love ".
Ah, a passionate hippie and a man who talks sense ! Did Richard charm Tony with his flower power prose or was Richard won over by Tony’s strong and no nonsense approach ? Who said all the drama took place on the pitch and in the boardroom :0)
11 Posted 01/10/2008 at 09:34:20
On th other hand, the club may be in crisis. I happen to believe the latter. It gives me no pleasure at all.
12 Posted 01/10/2008 at 09:12:17
13 Posted 01/10/2008 at 09:51:58
"If you had to choose which end of the spectrum do you CURRENTLY lean towards, which would you be?".
BRENDAN MCLAUGHLIN, I am talking about this season here and now when I refer to the negative aspects of David Moyes recent behaviour when it come to his approach to and in games, not last season or before.
At the moment, this season, he has been a let down as have most of the players, but it’s the attitude and tactics of Moyes and co. which has caused our poor start and abysmal showings.
14 Posted 01/10/2008 at 09:56:19
Personally I’m off the Marsh variety - a variety that needs to rant about the negatives - simply for the reason that the negatives are the things that sit heavy on my whole Everton experience...
And also by virtue that those negatives are the things that ultimately need to be fixed!
By being eternally positive, the Dodds of this world, ignore the problems and placate their continuing persistance.
Thats not an option for the this Marsh-ite.
15 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:14:22
An his past record means nothing.
16 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:16:09
17 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:10:13
Only here would two of the most extreme(-ly idiotic) two posters be the two we have to put our flags in?? I know our summer & season start has been frustrating, poor & not what we want or expect but for anyone to say Tony Marsh talks sense is amazing! The man who wants us to go out of all competitions, who said Yakubu was a waste of space when we bought him, Lescott would be a crock???? And who’s mood & pieces are often confused with a kopite on the wind up more often than not.
That is not to say that Richard Dodd is any better, his deluded opinion like a 6 year old is hilariously of reality! And his kenwright is the greatest & Moyes can do no wrong shouts are pitiful.
If I had to pick one, I simply wouldnt because they come across as a pair of bell-ends.
18 Posted 01/10/2008 at 09:12:34
I have no doubt that some of the more outrageous comments from both Doddy and Marshy are weighted to draw a response .
TM is way ahead in this contest in my view.
That said,and personal attacks aimed at DM in the past aside,it’s clear to me that TM has been supremely consistent in his main points about the manager’s tactics,indecision and level of ambition on the pitch.
This is surely what matters to the paying supporters.I for one,have been nothing short of embarrassed by our set up,style,and lately results.This at a time when EFC have been ’enjoying’ plenty of TV coverage and therefore coming under the microscope for all to see.
" Tony Marsh was posting identical stuff this time last year and we all know what happened."
I have to assume from this quote Connor, that you regard last season’s achievements as more than acceptable.
It his here that we part company.
A ’best of the rest’ 5th place finish and EUFA cup spot may look good to a e.g Wigan fan but to me it is a ’band-aid on a gaping wound’.
When the big games came around we were poor both in tactics and set-up and therefore performance on the pitch.
I would highlight the first leg in Fiorentina and the CC semi at Goodison as the worst examples of these shortcomings.
Saturday just saw more of the same,but to set up the way we did against the RS indicates just how far DM is really behind in the tactics game.Add to that the contempt shown by ’their’ set-up and the humiliation is complete.
I can’t listen to any more ’the defence just went AWOL’ ... The manager and coaching staff should move heaven and earth to find out why seasoned pros along with talented youngsters alike,are panicking when the ball comes near them.What does Steve Round do in training FFS ?.I don’t want to make him the scapegoat because he is an easy target and the problems existed long before his arrival.
No amount of ’blue blinkers’ can disguise the fact that we are woeful to watch and with the odd exception against a non-top 4 side,have been for years..Just ask any neutral fan.
It is the failure or unwillingness to change the ethics of our approach that puts DM in the firing line and naturally in Marshy’s sights.
In life we all need to take calculated risks from time to time and when Moysey comes to write his book,he will wish he had made more of his time at Everton and done something outstanding instead of the waste by negativity we have had to endure to date..
19 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:28:36
It’s like saying that you should stay with your Mrs even though you don’t love her anymore just cos you once did.
Past record means nothing if it is having a negative impact on the club, and it clearly is.
Are you happy with the shite hoofball you are seeing this season and the back end of last season?
Are you happy with Moyes negative tactics against most teams?
Are you happy with the start we have had?
Are you happy with us not using our midfield, especially after paying £15million for Fellaini?
Are you happy with mediocrity?
If you can answer yes to any of these questions then Moyes is your man cos he has taken us as far as he is ever gonna!!!!
20 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:27:15
Didn’t the bad run start back in the first leg against Fiorentina ? Ah, some may say that what happened last season doesn’t count and we are now into a new season so the positives/negatives should only count from then. Except that it’s not going very well at the moment !! When does a slump become a problem that needs a radical solution ? We can’t get any new in-contract players in until the next transfer window, getting a new manager in now may create more problems than it solves and it doesn’t look likely that we will have new owners in the near future while Bill Kenwright holds on to his ’toy’. So if we stay as we are then the players must take responsibility on the pitch and use their skills better and David Moyes must get some new positive tactics.
21 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:36:19
We are not even fighting in games, if we were then we would have some hope but we are like a bunch of girls on the pitch, Moyes has lost the dressing room in my opinion.
22 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:35:42
Yes it was Dermot, very acceptable to be honest and I enjoyed spells in the season whereas in the past I haven’t under David Moyes. 5th place is a good finish, a realistic finish and we had two decent cup runs aswell.
What I’m saying is Tony Marsh reacts like he always reacts, far too soon. He did it last season and was proved wrong big time. It could still happen this season, I’m not saying it will but I’d like to wait and see.
23 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:38:40
Lets give fellaini a chance he,s come into a team thats currently going through its "pre season" in september
we were woefully under prepared in august!!
Whos fault is this Bills? for not having enough money to get players in early or Moyes for wanting to only bring players in who can improve his team?
Either way i do,nt think we can blame the players, they need a leader and at the minute no one at the club seems to want the job!!!
24 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:54:37
25 Posted 01/10/2008 at 11:00:26
I’m also genuinely interested in why you expect fans to provide workable alternatives before deciding the current one is spiralling out of control!
26 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:59:00
Paul Lenehan, well, it’s a tough one but let’s have a look at the obvious choices;
Bilic - Croatia play great football and despite the England defeat have a great record under him.
We regrettably missed out on him but Mark Hughes would have been a great choice, however his ex-Utd team mate Steve Bruce has never been given a chance at a big club and he has got Wigan playing with great fire, enthusiasm and skill.
John Collins is doing well north of the border too, however, another young scotsman....hmmmm....as long as he promotes the sort of passing football he was used to as a player then I would not complain.
Maybe we could do with a bit of foreign management style for a change???
Those three names above were top players and all played in sides that like to pass the ball, maybe it’s the fact that Moyes never really cut it at the top that he let’s his defensive style take over his way of thinking?
Bruce played in arguably the best ever Premiership team, Bilic played in a passing West Ham side and Collins was one of the most accomplished passers of the ball in Europe.
Just a few suggestions off the top of my head.
We do need a change though.
27 Posted 01/10/2008 at 11:15:33
I think he’s be worth a try if we where changing managers. He’s managing in Greece at the moment, I’m sure a big wage and the prospect of managing in English football would be interesting for him.
Just a suggesstion like, if your looking for someone who will preach good football then he’s worth a go. Obviously he might be out of our range but you’ve always got to try.
28 Posted 01/10/2008 at 10:59:33
29 Posted 01/10/2008 at 11:16:10
As for everyone’s two favourite contributors, whenever one of them makes a point I can see myself agreeing with, they follow it up with some bitter, abusive bollocks (Marsh), or deluded, childlike dross (Dodd). John Lloyd is absolutely right - both appear to be bellends of the highest order.
30 Posted 01/10/2008 at 11:29:13
"To be fair the lad Marsh has done Dodd up like a Kipper. He’s all over the place! Let me just stop things here and highlight a couple of things. Here for instance (draws red circle around "we need to get behind the lads") and here (draws another red circle around "Moyes will do the business"), there’s no defence and gaps all over the place, it’s a joke"
31 Posted 01/10/2008 at 11:42:06
32 Posted 01/10/2008 at 11:25:13
33 Posted 01/10/2008 at 11:40:55
And Real Madrid? They seem to cope with a different coach after every meal and still win championships.
Moyes coached average players to play out of their skins. He seems to have lost that ability - at least for a while - so what?s the point of him being there?
34 Posted 01/10/2008 at 11:51:51
35 Posted 01/10/2008 at 12:10:09
I think there is no question that Moyes got it horribly wrong in the derby. I also agree that if Moyes didn’t want this long ball game then we wouldn’t be watching it. My only concern is that rash decisions are rarely good ones and there are not that many candidates out there who are better than Moyes and who are realistic targets. Although I definitely take Andy and Anthony’s point that Bilic could fit the bill. He certainly has Croatia playing proper football.
36 Posted 01/10/2008 at 12:04:33
The question then is which impacted what first and what needs to be changed first to get things back on track.
Moyes? tactics are bourne from frustration and a desire not-to-lose. Moyes? over-riding desire is to win and to have a squad that can win. That I have no doubt about. So does Bill Kenwright.
Moyes can not build the squad he wants because Bill can not provide the money. Is that Bills fault? As the owner it is his responsibility, however he has always been open in saying that he does not have access to that level of funds so, technically, it?s not his fault.
Moyes pretty much refuses to adjust his player choice to fit the budget because "these are the players the team needs to progress". Is there anything wrong with his view? Well no because, as we all do, he wants the team to progress to the next level and they ARE the type of players Everton wants and needs - but we can?t have them. Is this Bill K?s fault? No. Moyes needs to find suitable players to fit a tight budget - something he has proven he can do.
The problem I have with extremist points of views is that no matter how poignant or correct the fundimentals of the argument, they get lost in a sea of other "stuff". Tony Marsh does have some good points but they are hidden in a lot of bull. Richard Dodd has equally good points but when the negative (or realism) is completely ignored, it gets lost in a sea of red roses. Neither view feels correct so both views get chucked out.
The essence of it all is that for all the love for the club BK has, he can not provide the money it so desperately requires. For all the desire and desperation DM has, he can not (or doesn?t seem able to) adjust his for a team which, in his opinion, doesn?t have the players or strength it should.
Does this mean they both have to go? May be. If Moyes does not find a way to temper his outlook, it wont be a case of "should he go?" he will have to be pushed because his desire exceeds the clubs ability to meet it.
A high level of desire is only aa good thing when it is tempered correctly. Should Moyes move on where would he go? The only places he could go where they have the money to meet his desire are the top 4, Spurs and Man City. Make of that what you will.
BK has had his time and I think needs to go. In the meanwhile it would help a lot if he could stop with the lieing and tell us straight what the true situation is. Positive thinking is a great attribute to have (talking up the fortress funds, Kings Docks, DK, new signings etc) but complete denial that anything negative can happen (FF, no cash, Kings Docks, DK) doesn?t get anyone anywhere.
It?s the above reasons why I refuse to llevel all the blame on one side of the fence or the other. Both sides have to accept responsibility for their portion of the current situation and both have to work very hard to resovle it.
Moyes can start by getting us through thursday night!!!!!!!
37 Posted 01/10/2008 at 12:58:04
They are poles apart in opinions, and like previous posts, I would raise my standard in neither camp, but prefer to meander in between with the ebb and flow of our beloved team.
I would, however, wear my wellies, as I am drawn inexorably towards the marshlands.
38 Posted 01/10/2008 at 13:02:14
You see so many apologists using the old ’You’ve no alternative’ argument that it becomes second nature to assume that it’s use is only for dismissal purposes..
Personally I don’t think Moyes should go at the moment...as we’d still be left with the original problem - Kenwright.
It’s certainly a problem of the catch 22 variety that suggests that being an Evertonian will not become a pleasurable experience any time in the forseeable future.
39 Posted 01/10/2008 at 13:05:13
40 Posted 01/10/2008 at 13:08:03
It is far to early to suggest changing the manager, and I?d say this even if we were in Spurs position. But especially when Moyes has built us back up to being a real name within English football, as well as Europe.
He deserves games to bring it around. And I have every faith that he will do.
41 Posted 01/10/2008 at 13:21:20
Maybe they are getting together to produce another ’lovechild’ so that Anthony Jaras can have a brother or sister :0)
42 Posted 01/10/2008 at 12:47:26
Then I thought who would you like as a drinking buddy?
Tony Marsh - miserable as sin, then just when things start to go well you don’t see him again for 6 months until he can come and spread more gloom.
Richard Dodd - always there even when things are so bad you think they can’t get worse. I can imagin him rushing into the pub after a 5-0 home defeat and going ’did you see that throw in that Hibbo took in the 54th minute, man that was great’
May be completely off his head and I may not agree with him but I think I know who I prefer.
We are now mortgaged up to the hilt so expect no money signings in Jan unless we sell. If that is the case there will be no big name manager if DM does go.
So realistically unless the 6th richest man in the world puts his hands in his pocket we just have to put up with what we have. Simple as that.
Do I sound like Tony Marsh - hope not!
43 Posted 01/10/2008 at 13:40:03
44 Posted 01/10/2008 at 13:39:19
Would your somewhat self-defeating point that ’people have been calling for his head before’...not seem to suggest that he is repeating mistakes?
45 Posted 01/10/2008 at 13:53:00
He has had to work hard to close the gap and put us in a decent position.... it is going to be even harder to take us up another level.... but if we have to take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward then I would support the guy!
Some of you sound bitter and as clueless as geordies who expect their team to win every time playing ?sexy football?.
l'll support the guy and the team... it will help!
46 Posted 01/10/2008 at 14:30:01
If I were to choose between winning every game playing hoofball, or winning half with sext exciting attractive football, I would have the hoofball every time.
The issue is that we are losing most games playing hoofball.
We ain’t even showing fight, we are losing games without even putting in a good shift.
Don’t paper over the cracks by saying we want to win all our games by being pretty.
Having a go at playing football on the ground and putting up a bit of a scrap would be a start, we have not done that in a long while, back end of last season included.
Moyes clearly loves hoofball and has lost the dressing room, it’s so clear to see nobody is fighting for him anymore, and he does not seem arsed about it either.
47 Posted 01/10/2008 at 14:39:45
Perhaps a little both. Flattered in the sense that I should be mentioned in the same breath as a man revered as a Toffeeweb icon whilst offended to be linked, however tenuously, with the blaggard leader of the ?Out, Out Movement?! All I can say in my defence is that I love my fellow man, think the world of Everton FC and the people who control its destiny, and suspect that I get a very great deal more pleasure in this world by being positive than those who see only the dark side.
I hate injustice and, therefore, see it as vital that someone stands up for the people who work so hard in the Everton cause but get only brick-bats in return.
48 Posted 01/10/2008 at 15:00:34
Still.. it’d be funny seeing the two in a debate... constanty contradicting eachother.
49 Posted 01/10/2008 at 16:35:45
50 Posted 01/10/2008 at 16:35:05
Thrashing Sunderland and Boltons of this world is one thing but Chelsea in the semis and Flroentina in the quarters was another,In the end the season was a disaster from the position we where in at the start of December.PLEASE tell if you can because I must of missed it but what did we end up winning??????
51 Posted 01/10/2008 at 16:59:25
And please don’t start using the end of last season’s bad results against Moyes....as us Moyes fans get told to forget about past seasons when sticking up for him!
It took Ferguson approx 3-4 years to turn United round 20 years ago....in todays football think how harder and how much longer is required....remember Moyes submissted an ambitious 5 year plan to the board when contract negotiations began....in those 5 years I’d back him to succeed!
52 Posted 01/10/2008 at 17:57:38
That should be long enough to convince EVERYBODY that he’ll win us nowt-that’s if any of us will still be interested!
53 Posted 01/10/2008 at 17:39:18
As to where I sit, I’m desperately disappointed that we sometimes fail perform even the basics correctly. When we’re on song, we’re really good....it’s just the periods of shitness in between seem to go on for ages. I refuse to believe that Moyes sends his teams out with the explicit instructions to play long ball...what would that mean for the periods when we’re on song? Did the players rebel against him? I think not.
My own particular theory is that we all know about the legend of Moyes’ Everton...tight knit squad and all that, team bonding activities in the States and all that. Well, I think that when the chips are down and things aren’t going our way, our players lack belief in themselves and crucially in each other. And that’s something that DM needs to sort out sharp-ish as it’s been a problem for far too long. In fact I think it was in his first full season with us that we developed a knack of becoming the comeback kings...since then, if we go a goal down, you might as well go home! We try to play football but invariably, a few passes with that ball and it looks like it’s a nuclear bomb...so we launch it in hope.
We’re not the only ones by the way, look at Team In-ger-land....players that perform, week in, week out, to a decent standard in both the PL and the Champions League suddenly start lumping balls forward when the chips are down. Is that Capello/McClown/Ericsson’s fault?....it’s a virtual carbon copy of what happens to our team.
So replace David Moyes if you must, but unless his successor can get the players’ heads right, you’re going to be moaning again when the honeymoon is over.
54 Posted 01/10/2008 at 16:53:26
"It could still happen this season,I’m not saying it will but I’d like to wait and see."
I don’t suppose we are going to agree any time soon Connor but I have a feeling you won’t have to wait long.
As far as I know our next 5 games take in a trip to S.Liege tomorrow where we are up against it to say the least,Newcastle at home with the spectre of Michael Owen lurking in an otherwise dysfunctional team,2 fixtures against top 4 sides,followed by a battle with Bolton.
That’s all fine with me because we are capable of delivering a performance against all of them.
However,knowledge of this alone isn’t going to make it happen.We lack confidence because we are conceding goals early.Game plans (such as they are) go up in smoke because there is no fallback position or Plan B as it’s now known.
Communication wasn’t a problem during our good run of results last season so wtf has happened to us ? We are not talking at the back because there is no natural leader on the pitchand here is no getting away from the fact that we are in complete disarray in defence.
We haven’t got time to ask the question why this is ? because the next five games will happen all too quickly.
Rather,the question has got to be .. who have we got to take on the role of a Terry,Ferdinand or Gallas.
The manager, bawling out his instructions non-stop to all and sundry,would give the impression no such leader is necessary.
The Sky 4 teams think differently.
Well that’s just it isn’t it ? ... and Boy ! do they think differently.
Connor you accuse Marshy of going ’off’ too soon but in my book it’s already later than any of us think.
55 Posted 01/10/2008 at 18:01:47
Why are you mentioning my name? I don’t think I’ve said you went missing, it certainly wasn’t me who said that in this thread.
What I said is you react for to early which is spot on. I remember your post after the game against Metalist last season. You claimed we’d get knocked out and you said we’d struggle in the League. How wrong you where.
We had a good season last year, delude yourself all you want but I know we did and I was happy with it. Could we improve and push on? Ofcourse we and there’s still alot of time to do that this season. Could things have gone better last season? Again, ofcourse they could.
We didn’t win a trophy, very few teams do outside the "top four" to be honest. Spurs and Portsmouth did last season yes and we did in 95 but other than that the top four have dominated.
I’m realistic, I know it’s a hard thing to do due to the gap in quality and money between Chelsea, Man utd, Liverpool and Arsenal to the rest of us. That’s just the way it is.
I was happy with last season, I’ve said that time and time again.
56 Posted 01/10/2008 at 18:16:06
Maybe this is why I don’t have very high expectations for my Everton.
57 Posted 01/10/2008 at 18:14:06
If we keep on losing and putting in these awful performances then people have a right to be annoyed and say things like "Moyes out."
At the moment though I think it is a little early, I’d rather wait a few games like I said the previous season to Tony. We are virtually in the same position as then, we changed it around then and anything can happen now.
That’s just my opinion though. You could be right but we’ll have to wait and see.
58 Posted 01/10/2008 at 19:16:33
We all think that we are at a crossroads - a crisis point if you wish. This involves the team, the manager, the ownership and the location of the club. Everyone can state their opinion, but some people think they can change the one thing they want,and keep everything else the same way its always been.
It doesn’t usually work that way.
59 Posted 01/10/2008 at 20:30:48
60 Posted 01/10/2008 at 22:08:15
Swish that around in your mouth...
61 Posted 02/10/2008 at 00:12:55
David Moyes has sadly took the club as far as he can and even he knows it, i say this because of his attitude and body language appears to be negative. Let's get rid now.
Tony Marsh is a LEGEND!
62 Posted 02/10/2008 at 01:01:19
I know that these are solid and honest men who’ve done a job of sorts in football’s arse end, but for all our obvious problems, these names do your ’Moyes Out’ rant no favours at all with me!!!
If Evertonians’ fantasies have become so pragmatic things are much worse than I thought.
63 Posted 02/10/2008 at 10:15:40
Both managers promote passing football, (We play hoofball) both were top players (Moyes was not).
Both are doing great jobs at their respective clubs on ’Shoestring’ budjets.
Both are well respected in the football world by players and managers alike (Moyes seems to have lost the dressing room).
Would you rather we played cowardly Hoofball all season or played the passing and committed style that Wigan seem to be playing?
64 Posted 02/10/2008 at 10:23:49
65 Posted 02/10/2008 at 10:57:06
Anthony, that’s a strange and rather loaded question; one that flatters Wigan and does us a disservice. For reasons that have been covered ad nauseam on Toffeeweb, there’s no doubt that we’ve looked pretty shoddy in the main so far this season. But it’s not strictly accurate to suggest that all we’ve mustered up til now is ’cowardly hoofball’. Much of the disappointment of early 2008-09 seems to be down to us struggling to consistently replicate the joined-up footie that started to appear last season. It’s been there in tantalising flashes, which is making our frailties and inconsistensies all the more frustrating.
I’m very nervous about what’s going to happen over the next few weeks with things on and off the pitch. And although I take your point, whatever happens I’m certainly not about to hope that we start taking our footballing cues from bloody Wigan Athletic!!
However, I do wish that we’d taken our physical cues from Wigan RLFC in the derby.
66 Posted 02/10/2008 at 11:24:06
Anthony Jaras, Steve Bruce was known for playing back to front football at Birmingham, ask any Birmingham fan and they’ll tell you how it was. When he first took over at Wigan they also played hoofball. Now he’s added players like Palacios and Zaki to players like Valencia, Koumas and Heskey etc and there playing some decent stuff. He doesn’t promote good football at all, he’s just added players who are capable of pass and move.
We did exactly the same last season when we had Pienaar, Osman, Cahill, Yakubu and Arteta on the pitch. We played good football, we wheren’t hoofing like we usually do and we where very decent to watch like Wigan are at the moment.
Sadly this season we’ve been disjointed in midfield and it’s all gone wrong. Cahill’s only just coming back into it, Osman having to play on the wings where he doesn’t make an impact and Pienaar who is a key player has been out for ages.
I think once we get those players back together we’ll start playing some good stuff again, I don’t see why we won’t. When you’ve got players who want the ball and are capable on the ball you’l improve. Wigan have that at the moment, we do not.
I don’t think Moyes has lost the dressing room, has you got any proof about this?
67 Posted 02/10/2008 at 11:19:09
Just think about the term ’Everton fan’. That’s what we are, nothing more. The Tony Marshes of this world need to start acting like one.
Got nowt to say about RD. All I know is I’d rather be on the bus with a happy loudmouth than an angry loudmouth.
68 Posted 02/10/2008 at 12:00:53
69 Posted 02/10/2008 at 12:03:00
We play hoofball despite the fact we have already got some good footballers in midfield so don’t you think that is the problem straight away?????
70 Posted 02/10/2008 at 12:28:24
I’ve seen no lack of commitment from the players to be honest. I’ve seen a lack of quality and I think they’ve been set out wrong in terms of tactics and outlook on the game.
The derby looked like that because we where standing off them and giving them space, it wasn’t due to lack of commintment of workrate.
Do we have some good footballers in the side? Osman is a nothing player on the wing and I’d say Arteta is our only creative influence at the moment and he’s stuck outwide.
Wigan are playing good football because they are at full strength. They’ve got players like Palacios, De Ridder, Koumas, Valencia, Zaki, Heskey etc all battling for places and working in tandem.
We’d play good football if we had Arteta on the right, Pienaar on the left and Osman in a more central role where he’s comfortable. That’s when we are at our best, sadly injuries have kept them apart.
We have yet to field our strongest side this season. Baines, Osman, Rodwell and Neville have all tried to do jobs outwide and it hasn’t worked, we have no balance. Pienaar is coming back now and hopefully Fellaini and Castillo can finally bed in.
71 Posted 02/10/2008 at 12:44:08
Anthony it may be your first time but the very fact you have associated yourslef to being like Marsh puts you in to the category of those who have previously called for his head.
I thank you.
72 Posted 02/10/2008 at 15:36:46
Moyes will sign his new contract, then we’ll sack in January and have to pay him about £15m.
This is Everton so there is bound to be an almighty f*ck up somewhere along the way.
73 Posted 02/10/2008 at 16:25:23
Since Moyes arrived we’ve been competetive with some cracking finishes..
I respect your right to be Tony Marsh - I’m a big fan of his, even though I agree with zip that he says.
Anyway if we do sack him which tit is going to do better?
74 Posted 02/10/2008 at 17:28:24
75 Posted 02/10/2008 at 17:29:33