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More Misery on the Mersey

By Tony Marsh :  07/10/2008 :  Comments (80) :
Newcastle at home on Sunday should of been a three-point banker... so what happened? I mean everyone beats the barcodes don't they? ? so why didnt we?

This game on Sunday really encapsulated what David Moyes's tenure at Everton has been like all along. One minute it's jubilation and the feeling that things are back on track... then the next it's despair and dismay. The joy of being home and dry is soon turned to panic and disbelief as yet again the wheels come off in spectacular fashion.

We are leaking goals at an alarming rate and Moyes or Round don't seem capable of stopping it. Here is one solution that should help. Pack Tony Hibbert off to Division 1 where he belongs and maybe we can build from there...

It's no coincidence that teams are now picking out Hibbert's flank as our main weekness and exploiting it to the max. Crosses are being whipped in to the back post were Hibbert is usually half asleep ball watching and the ball ends up in the back of the net. Simple but effective way to beat Everton.

When I first got the news in the summer that we had signed Louis Saha, I couldn't believe Moyes was so stupid. Now I do believe Moyes is so stupid. Saha is finished at this level and has been for years now. No goals since February 2007 prove my point. Man Utd don't let good players go if they can help it ? do they?

If I hear the old "he is not fit, give him time" excuse once more, I will fucking scream. WHY is Moyes bringing in injured players to the club when it's quite obvious we needed players who would hit the ground running? With a squad as small and lightweight as ours, we can ill-afford to be carrying passengers. We already have ADVM, Neville, Baines and Osman to drag along ? we don't need any more.

For those of you about to go ballistic over the pop at Osman, just watch how crap he is in the next two games against Arsenal and the Mancs. Leon never turns up in the big games yet gets a shirt in every one. Unreal how so average a player is so highly thought-of by Moyes and some fans alike.

Now that the back four is about as reliable as an Austin Allegro, Tim Howard is starting to flap about the place like a Penguin trying to fly. So guess who we have in reserve to put pressure on our number one if he is not performing? Carlo fucking Nash ? that's who. You couldnt make this shit up without being called insane.

WTF is Moyes doing with his transfer policy if that's what you can call it? Is this the best a club like Everton can hope for? Now I have nothing personal against Nash or Saha but is this really the direction the club should be heading in? To me, it's just not good enough.

As far as I am concerned, David Moyes is now the Bic Razor of football mangers. It all looks good from a distance, nicely packaged... but once you open the wrapper, all you get is a dull lifeless experience that cuts you to ribbons once you use it.

I suppose I will be told once again to wait and see what happens as the season is just starting. Well, erm... one point from four home games is a little bit worrying to me. Not being able to beat the league's whipping boys Newcastle at Goodison from being 2-0 up is just a little bit of a concern, don't you think?

I am more worried than ever before because Moyes has allowed the squad to disintergrate into a team of passionless wasters. Any player with any real fight in them has long gone and never been replaced: Carsley, Stubbs, Gravesen, Big Dunc etc.

As I have said before, DM doesn't do big characters or personalities in the team ? he likes the little quiet types who keep thier mouths shut. On and off the pitch. What good are these type of players when it comes to the trench warfare mentality we now need to survive? Watch the choir boys go missing in our next two games against two of the Sky Four. I predict massacres in both these games... then what?

Plain and simple, the back end of last season and the start of this have been a total embarrassment to us all. I don't think at any other club in England the manager would of survived it... Then again, the other clubs don't have a saviour like Bill Kenwright waiting in the wings do they? Arent we the lucky ones...

With a double act as good as BK and DM running things theres no need to worry ? just wait and see what happens...

Reader Comments

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Mick Simpson
1   Posted 07/10/2008 at 20:22:00

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Got to agree... fuck the contract, get rid of the ginger twat now.
Adam Cunliffe
2   Posted 07/10/2008 at 20:24:25

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Couldn?t agree more Tony. Moyes?s time is up. We've put up with crap footie for too long.

Towards the end of last season I thought, give him a chance and see who he buys in the summer but, after spending £15 mil and buying a crocked Manc reject, I think he should go.

I don?t really like swearing and I shouldn?t really do it but...

End of rant.
Stefan Tosev
3   Posted 07/10/2008 at 20:25:21

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Carsley, Stubbs, Gravesen, Big Dunc,

You have slaughtered all of the above ex-players as useless and shite on these pages... now they are gone, they are fighters - it's ridiculous! How low you can get....???
Barry Sherlock
4   Posted 07/10/2008 at 20:31:28

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Saha ISN’T fit. Pienaar ISN’t fit. Cahill ISN’t fit. Vaughany ISN’t fit. Arteta ISN’t fit. Osman ISN’t fit.

Moyes doesn’t do big personnalities? HE re-signed Gravesen AND Stubbs!!! He also played Carsley in virtually every game that he was available for!!!

Time and Patience is what is required right now. It is going to take time to get this group of players gelling.

Some players are struggling for form. Howard IS having a few bad games. That didn’t happen last year. Did Moyes tell him to start flapping??? No. This happens from time to time. It’s called form.

Brian Waring
5   Posted 07/10/2008 at 20:34:24

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I reckon Moyes has some kind of mind melt over some of our fans. They blame every bad game on injuries, pre-season, players not bedded in yet, etc. But overlook the main culprit, one David Moyes. If we get beat by the Mancs and Arsenal, they will use the money excuse. They must have a little booklet titled, "101 excuses to defend David Moyes when we get beat". Problem is, if the season keeps going like it is, they will need all of those 101 excuses.
Iain Thomson
6   Posted 07/10/2008 at 20:32:59

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I don?t dislike Moyes, I mean I dislike his football ethos, where better a player concede possession by hoofing the ball, than loose the ball trying to create something.

Regardless of results that will never change.

We are about to pay a manager whos not being courted actively by anyone else 3.5 mil a year. A manager who has never won anything, whose peak was 4th followed by immediate undoing of that by loosing consecutive European ties.

This is madness.<
Noel Kelly
7   Posted 07/10/2008 at 21:10:29

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My dad had four Austin Allegros and they were nothing but reliable great cars.
Marc Williams
8   Posted 07/10/2008 at 21:08:18

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Cheer Up, Tony ? at least Richard Dodd?s latest Cast iron certainty of a prediction hasn?t come true & Moyes hasn?t signed. The longer this goes on the more people will see through old Davey boy!

Latest score:

Bren Connor
9   Posted 07/10/2008 at 21:28:54

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A serious question for Mr Marsh. Who..., who? (and come up with a name), who would takes Moyes’ place? Come on, who?
Mike Whittaker
10   Posted 07/10/2008 at 21:38:48

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I agree with the majority of what you say Tony - but you're being a bit harsh on Baines. Two assists and two clearances of the line isn?t a bad contribution from your left back in 90 minutes.
Ryan Holroyd
11   Posted 07/10/2008 at 21:40:50

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Bren Connor - Doubt he’ll answer your question. He never comes up with viable options. Just slags Moyes and the players off. Time for a reality check. Everton have no money and coming 4th, 5th and 6th in the past 4 years is the best we’re going to get unless Kenwright sells up. Deal with it Marshy.
Ted Roberts
12   Posted 07/10/2008 at 21:46:08

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Do you really have nothing else to do? Moyes HAS to stay, anyone who knows their football will agree completely. You?re short-sighted, short-memoried, and seemingly revelling in the poor start.
Joe Heffron
13   Posted 07/10/2008 at 21:32:10

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Tony - You say "We are leaking goals at an alarming rate and Moyes or Round don’t seem capable of stopping it. Here is one solution that should help. Pack Tony Hibbert off to Division 1 where he belongs and maybe we can build from there"

Have a look at the stats, Tony hibbert has only played two league games this season, so I dont think you can attribute the goals to him, and if anything he is one of the best actual defenders we have from a defending point of view - albeit attacking is a whole different view.
How your article got published in the first point amazed me, but now its there lets have a look at it in more detail.

Simple fact, We have no real money - Saha was free and we only pay for him as he plays. As he plays he gets more match fit and more likely to score. yes do give him time!

Leon osman happens to be one of the best technical players at everton, only problem is his stature and pace. When we play "big four" teams, they have better players than him, but for me he contributes more than the likes of Neville and he is definitely more likely to score/setup a goal.
DM doesnt like big characters. Nonsense, there is a difference between a big character who is a gobshite and demotivates the players and a big character who can motivate the team and get things going by both their actions and words on a pitch. There arent that many of them around and those which are, cost money.

Here is a summary of the thoughts of you and so many people like you, we arent winning, I’m going to whinge, lets sack the manager.
Dry your eyes and get back to doing what Everton supporters do, Support the team.
Alternatively you could ask Walter Smith to come back and see if Peter Johnson has some money to buy back the club.

You want a prediction for the big games coming up, things are tightened up and we get a goalless draw, or narrow defeat.
Iain Thomson
14   Posted 07/10/2008 at 21:48:00

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Phil Brown, Tony Mowbray

Now people will think that's ridiculous, and maybe it is, but when we took Moyes he was no higher profile than them.

I don't care about the next manager being a big name, I care that he will prioritise passing and movement and football.

It's like this blinkered thing about Moyes being irreplaceable; he clearly isn't ? if he was, we would be struggling to keep hold of him
Iain Thomson
15   Posted 07/10/2008 at 21:51:36

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The money or lack thereof isn't the issue, it's the way we play... You don't have to be a world class player to pass and move... that's from the training pitch.

7 years into a regime the way we play should be automatic.
Paul Hardcastle
16   Posted 07/10/2008 at 22:01:06

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Unfortunately, I think it is automatic, Iain. It’s called HOOFBALL. It is utterly shameless and an abhorrent disgrace to the name of Everton FC.
Iain Thomson
17   Posted 07/10/2008 at 22:05:27

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Exactly...what happens on the training ground that creates a cultrure where its ok under no pressure to punt long straigh balls upfield.

I think we have played well in spells, but as soon as confidence goes or there is a wobble the hoofball starts... Which 7 yrs of Moyes coaching has clearly instilled as the way to play.

IIm so depressed ..
Michael McGuirk
18   Posted 07/10/2008 at 22:26:58

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If you want good football then, of the available managers, Glenn Hoddle is the obvious choice, Peter Reid as his No 2...
Sean Thompson
19   Posted 07/10/2008 at 22:33:54

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I agree with Tony, maybe not on Baines, but certainly Hibbo, Ossy and Howard.

Stephen Stuart
20   Posted 07/10/2008 at 22:38:41

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Sadly, for the luminaries here, we don?t get to choose the manager - FACT.

So requests for alternatives to Moyes are pointless. They only serve to indicate that within the support for Everton there are still those who cannot see the wood for the trees. Any criticism of Moyes is met with an outpourring of romantic nonesense based on spurrious argument.

Moyes has never been a good manager. He is naieve in the extreme, has poor tactical acumen, is dour and defensive minded, wastes transfer opportunities, and is overpaid for what he has achieved ? absolutely nothing!

If he had any respect for this club, and indeed himself, he would resign. Unfortunately, on his income he?s gonna wait until he is pushed, which Kenwright won?t do because he?s the fixer and happy with the status quo.

This club is in the shit ? accept it and stop burying your heads in the sand.
Alex Kociuba
21   Posted 07/10/2008 at 22:59:48

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There must surely be hundreds of possible replacement managers out there? Of all the hundreds and thousands of teams in Europe there has surely got to be quality managers who would jump at the chance of a move to Everton. Most teams in the lower half of any top European league for instance. Or just within England, there is 72 clubs in the English league, there has to be a handful of good managers who would love to be our manager (and perhaps accept low wages/short term contract too).

But then there’s leagues in France, Italy...infact, every country in the world!

Do managers have agents? There must be the facility somewhere to detect outstanding management performance in lower leagues all over Europe.

Managers everywhere!
Dick Fearon
22   Posted 07/10/2008 at 23:05:01

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If I was to pick out one of Tony?s rants that I completely agree with, it would be Osman.

I am sick to death of his fan club going on about his so called technical skill and ignoring the fact that he goes missing for long periods of the game, he cannot kick his way out of a wet paper bag, he is a bloody awful tackler, can?t head and not once has he commanded the midfield. If his attributes were added to those of Pienaar we would still need someone who could dictate the midfield.

Come to think of it, you could add Arteta in his current form into that mix of midfield weaklings.

Steve Pendleton
23   Posted 07/10/2008 at 23:18:14

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Dead right on the Hibbert call, Tony Marsh. Every time I see him in the starting line-up I get a sick feeling in my stomach.

What does Moyes see in Hibbert and Neville to warrant having them in our squad, let alone in the starting line-up and Neville as our captain!?!?!
Dave Wilson
24   Posted 07/10/2008 at 23:30:14

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I?m sick of this Hibbert bashing. Too many of you forget the fuck ups from the "superstars" and aim for the easy target. Hibbert?s distribution falls way short of prem class, but if the crosses from the opposition right were blocked nearly as often as they are by Hibbert he wouldn't have to try to out-jump these giants. The Yak's stupidity and Pienaar's bone idleness cost us two points on Saturday, how the fuck does that get to be Hibbert's fault?

As for forwards pulling on to Hibbert as a "weekness", they do that to every full back in the league. Ashley Cole and Garry Neville often get murdered in the air when less accomplished headers of the ball than Taylor pull away from the tall centre-back to exploit their lack of height.

Yes, Hibbert is below par but he hasn't played for most games this year and we were still getting walloped.

If you're pointing fingers, point them in the right direction for fuck sake!

Rob Hollis
25   Posted 07/10/2008 at 23:52:22

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Big Dunc? If you had said Bob Latchford it may have been credible. Big Dunc was great every so often, when he was fit or when it was perhaps a big game, but don’t use him as an example of anything that has been great at Everton.
A real fighter may have put his kit on a bit more often when he had a twinge.
(name and address witheld for safety reasons)
Tony Williams
26   Posted 08/10/2008 at 00:14:11

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Tony March Moyes Hat-in number 2,538.

Right where to start.... in fact just reread the last rant, as it is the same post over and over again, just with different titles.

Dave Wilson, I?m glad I?m not the only one who thinks that, if the left side was as solid as Hibbert?s at stopping crosses, we would have a far healthier goal difference and more points.
Richard Dodd
27   Posted 08/10/2008 at 00:00:28

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The protracted contract negotiations are completed and only the availability of all the parties to meet and put pen to paper has prevented it being signed and sealed already. Both Mr Kenwright and Davey have had a difficult period to get through ? made no easier by the credit crunch ? but there is now every confidence that, whatever the outcome of the next two fixtures, we shall be in good shape well before Christmas.

Now is not the time for this gross over-reaction ?the Club is in good hands and the team is potentially our strongest in Premier League history.

John Andrews
28   Posted 08/10/2008 at 00:46:17

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Dodd, for pity's sake give it a rest. You sound more and more moronic every time you post.

Is Moyes not capable of signing it on his own? Or do we really have to have a fanfare for that which could be our biggest mistake to date.

The team may be "potentially" our strongest in Premier League history but unfortunately they are certainly not performing like it.

Steve Pendleton
29   Posted 08/10/2008 at 01:43:19

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Don?t you just love Dodd and his so-called inside info? Stick to the facts as your predictions have been fruitless up to now Richard.

I might start my own weekly prediction as my friend?s mother?s sister?s great uncle?s mistress knows people in the club. Reckon my source would be more credible.
Jason Lam
30   Posted 08/10/2008 at 04:10:22

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Never drove a Austin Allegro but Tony’s right about the Bic Razors.
Daniel Howard
31   Posted 08/10/2008 at 04:32:17

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I doubt ?failure to meet? is the reason for not signing. The parties all work in the same building and besides, have they never heard of the fax machine. As Moyes?s stock drops, the club is probably sensing the chance to knock a few million of the price!
Sean Condon
32   Posted 08/10/2008 at 05:12:13

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Pretty fucking tough to disagree with you Tony, and i?m a DM apologist/backer of the first order. Nice to see that you?re working on your spelling, too. It does make for a more persuasive argument, imo.
Wali Tomos
33   Posted 08/10/2008 at 08:01:28

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’One minute it’s jubilation and the feeling that things are back on track..’ Now let’s see Tony when exactly were we last ’on track’....? That would be in the mid 80’s so to which era are you comparing this team to? You should have seen the rubbish we had through the 70’s I stood and watched most of it but they didn’t get half the stick some of our players get now from so called experts.
Tony Marsh
34   Posted 08/10/2008 at 08:48:40

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Stefan Tosev, please find me a single line on this site were I slag off any of the players I named as fighters. It's not there so don;t make shit up, lad.

Bren Connor, we have been down this road many a time. The "who will we get?" nonesense is for the school playground, mate. What you are saying is that if Moyes was sacked there is no-one left in the whole wide world to take over at Everton FC? Ha ha ha! Reality check.

The Everton job is one of the biggest in the country, far too big for Moyes, and there would be plenty of takers as long as BK didn't bullshit them away.
Connor Rohrer
35   Posted 08/10/2008 at 09:06:02

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"For those of you about to go ballistic over the pop at Osman, just watch how crap he is in the next two games against Arsenal and the Mancs."

If he plays behind the striker or as a winger that will be the case, if he plays as a centre midfield then I disagree. I think he?ll give a good account of himself as he always does in his natural position.

"When I first got the news in the summer that we had signed Louis Saha, I couldn?t believe Moyes was so stupid. Now I do believe Moyes is so stupid. Saha is finished at this level and has been for years now. No goals since February 2007 prove my point. Man Utd don?t let good players go if they can help it ? do they?"

I think that?s very harsh, he hasn?t scored since Febuary because he?s rarely played. When he?s fit and playing he?s a very talented striker who should be given time to get into his rythm. He?s shown enough promise to show what he could do for us.

There?s no doubting it was a gamble but that?s the situation we are in at the moment with the ditheing and lack of money. We?ll just have to wait and see, if fit I do think Saha could offer something.

He hasn?t lost anything, he?s a good modern day footballer. You saw his pace is still there when he ran away from Steven Taylor mid way through second half. He?s a good footballer, it?s just about getting him in the right shape and finding his role.

Other than that I couldn?t disagree with the article, a lot of good points. We should be putting away teams like Newcastle. It was a joke to be honest. A promising first half but we failed to sustain it and where punished.
Ciarán McGlone
36   Posted 08/10/2008 at 09:51:57

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I agree with Stephen Stuart...Moyes has been a decidedly dodgy manager from the start...

Bewildering transfers (Kilbane, the re-signing of Pistone, Beattie, Davies, Krøldrup... the list is long)..which are still happening at the moment with the ?i?ve watched some unheard of Belgian since he was 17? ..Bollocks...

Tactics that a 5 year old could see where bizarre... 3 man midfield against Metallist. Bringing Yobo on a Saha off whenever we need a goal ina cup competition..

Team selection: Neville, Jags in midfield, Cahill in a 4- man midfield... players constantly out of position.

BUT... what would be achieved if we got rid of Moyes now... in my opinion absolutely nothing. We?d still be left with the root cause of the problem ? no tangible investment in the team from the board.

Moyes has done well while making mistakes (which is bewildering as much as it is frustrating ? I mean imaging how good he could be if he didn't have the propensity to repeat his previous mistakes!)... but it's the continuance of these mistakes and the fact that he will never get out of this habbit that means I would never want him in charge if money was actually to materialise. But at the moment I certainly don?t see the point of getting rid of him...

Get rid of the root cause first then address the Moyes problem.
Ciarán McGlone
37   Posted 08/10/2008 at 10:06:29

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P.S Connor...stop bigging up Osman, he’s as mediocre as they come..and that includes playing in the middle.

The boy has maradona complex, while having the skill of mcfadden..i.e a skill that primarily involves bitting off more than one can chew!
Connor Rohrer
38   Posted 08/10/2008 at 10:07:06

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"BUT...what would be achieved if we got rid of Moyes my opinion absolutely nothing. We?d still be left with the route cause of the problem - no tangible investment in the team from the board."

Spot on Ciaran, that for me is the major problem.
Joeynkoo Ludden
39   Posted 08/10/2008 at 10:07:17

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Tony - Bic razors are cheap though...

Noel - my old girl had a rusty old Austin Allegro, damn relaible too until the front left wheel came off. Not the tyre - the whole smeggin wheel.. whilst we were driving... A strange similarity to Moyes’s tenure at GP..
Connor Rohrer
40   Posted 08/10/2008 at 10:14:52

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Ciarán McGlone,

Bigging him up? I rate Osman, I disagree with people saying he’s a poor player in his natural position.

Very rarely does he play poorly in the centre, he’s a consistent performer there. He’s nothing amazing and I would’ve liked to have seen him replaced in the summer but as things stand I think he’s a must in the team.

He’s a good player.
Vincent Siow
41   Posted 08/10/2008 at 10:27:04

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Connor Rohrer, I have to disagree with you.

Osman’s crap.

He’s a Championship player.

He can’t defend.

He gets shoved off easily.

He’s always dispossessed.

He can’t head the ball even if his life depended on it.

He never shows up against the big clubs.

He doesn’t create many chances.

He lacks pace.

The only thing about him is that he scores some nice goals from time to time. But that’s cus no one else in Goodison does that so it makes him look good.

I’d ditch him if someone offers a million.
Colin Grierson
42   Posted 08/10/2008 at 10:17:12

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We’re shit and we know we are!
We’re shit and we know we are!
etc etc etc!

Anyone who nows about football will tell you that we haven’t really deserved a point so far this season. Good fortune is the only reason that we are above Spurs at the moment.
Doddy, the band may play on but the ship is sinking mate. We must act NOW or I for one fear the worst. We are the worst team in the Prem at the moment, bar none!

The filth snatching a late winner didnt help my mood I can tell yer!

Everyone should join in the chant of HOOF every time one of our players HOOFS it and maybe then they may start to get embarrassed!

Paul Tran
43   Posted 08/10/2008 at 10:24:32

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Just a popint for all the people who come out with the; ’who would you bring in?’ line.

A couple of years ago, I suggested we bring in an unemployed manager called O’Neill.

I was then slagged off by all and sundry.

After all, we wouldn’t want a manager who was a winner as a player and a winner as a manager with smaller clubs than us. We wouldn’t want someone who can bring quality young English players to the club.

Wouldn’t we.....?

In reality, nobody knows whether we would do better or worth with a different manager. The idea that there is nobody in the world incapable of putting together a team of players and finishing fifth other than Moyes is stretching it a little.
Ciarán McGlone
44   Posted 08/10/2008 at 10:34:09

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He played the centre on Sunday... out of his depth isn?t the word for it.

Couple of decent moves in the first half... but more is expected of what is essentially the most important position on the pitch in terms of offensive play.

Not good enough.
Tony Williams
45   Posted 08/10/2008 at 11:36:30

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Ciaran, you call Felaini a "unheard of Beligian" , wan?t this the lad on the "50 most exciting teenagers to watch" list with the likes of Messi and Co? (I hope they are talking about footy and not his lookalike?s previous antics on film).

Now don?t get me wrong I am not comparing him to Messi but he is hardly "unheard of".
Tony Williams
46   Posted 08/10/2008 at 11:41:50

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He was in fact ranked 20 in a list of 50
Connor Rohrer
47   Posted 08/10/2008 at 11:46:06

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Ciarán McGlone,

I disagree I thought he played well for 60 minutes, after that the whole team switched off.

He’s far from out of his depth, he’s a good little player. We’ve certainly improved as a team whe he plays in the middle.

What I will say is he needs someone more defensive minded alongside him, Fellaini and Osman didn’t really gel when they had to defend.

Do we actually have any good players? You don’t seem to rate any of them.
Tony Marsh
48   Posted 08/10/2008 at 12:03:13

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I think Connor is dating Leon the way he raves about him.
Connor Rohrer
49   Posted 08/10/2008 at 12:12:44

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Raves about him? I wouldn’t go that far.

I appreciate his contribution and I can see when a player have improved. I wasn’t a fan in the 06/07 season, he proved to me last season though that he is a good player when played in his natural position.

I wanted him and Carsley replaced like everyone else last season (well most of us), sadly that didn’t happen. At the moment though with the current squad he’d be in my team without a doubt.

I’d love to know your team Tony Marsh, what team would you select with the current squad? You have all the answers it seems.

There’s a squad list on the Offical site if you’ve forgot the names of alot of our players. And it’s eleven a side aswell, don’t pick ten players again like you did last time.
Gavin Ramejkis
50   Posted 08/10/2008 at 12:18:57

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Doddy what the fuck has the credit crunch to do with DM signing a contract that has been on the table for weeks? Stop talking utter bullshit like your beloved chairman unless what you are really intimating is that like the other flow of untreated effluent that pours from Black Bill’s lying mouth the contract he is offering to Dm is like all his other utterances "on the never never" and he doesn’t really have the cash to pay it.
Tony Marsh
51   Posted 08/10/2008 at 12:34:01

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Look Connor it quite simple mate.If I had been Everton manager for the past 7 years the likes of Hibbert and Osman would of been long gone and the likes of Neville and ADVM never signed so my squad at this present time would be totally different from the shite Moyes has available right now.Its shite that DM has re-signed or brought in and its not good enough .
Christopher Mowll
52   Posted 08/10/2008 at 12:22:54

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Tony - you have been asked on numerous occasions on who you think would, and could manage EFC and now you duck the question again and say that is for the playground! You’re talking bollocks man. You write this drivel slating Moye?s and the team, but you never have any solutions or anything constructive to offer.

Get Sky Sports News on Tony, watch their 10 year anniversary clips, and look at us placed 15th in the table each season. And don?t spout some drivel back about that?s where we are now ? because you know as well as I do ? we won?t be there at the end of the season, and by then you will have crawled back under the rock you came from until we have another bad run of form.
Connor Rohrer
53   Posted 08/10/2008 at 12:42:38

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That’s not what I said Tony Marsh, your obsession with hating David Moyes is getting the better of you again. I think we’ll leave it at that.

Keep the thread on topic...

Stefan Tosev
54   Posted 08/10/2008 at 12:46:51

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Carsley, Weir, Stubbs... the list goes on and on with players who didn’t get shown the door and were resigned by DM when it was obvious to us all they were finished.

Neville, Carsley.... Watching these play together in midfield is like wacthing your 4th selection in a yankee dip when the other three have won

errrrrrrrr and not to forget you nominations for managers: Mike Newell or a Peter Taylor or even Dave Watson?
Andy Crooks
55   Posted 08/10/2008 at 13:04:34

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David Moyes is treating the club with contempt. Tear up the contract. By the way, Tony, you forgot Anthony Gardner. Good of us to pay his salary for a while to help Spurs out.
Barry Kermode
56   Posted 08/10/2008 at 13:14:13

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Davey Jones anyone?
James Marshall
57   Posted 08/10/2008 at 13:46:45

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Same article regurjitated again and again - change the record Tony.

If we got rid of Moyes all we’d have is a period of instability, players leaving and an even worse situation that we have now - you’re so reactionary its painful! Do you ever look at the consequences??
Ciarán McGlone
58   Posted 08/10/2008 at 13:45:45

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This thread isn’t about Fella...and to be honest I don’t really want to make it about he’s had enough stick and could do with a break....

But that list was complied by some wet dream playstation playing nerd...

For all intents and the real world anyway ..Fellaini was ’unheard of’..and so are most on that list...including Kermit Erasmus (who I think we could do with signing - because it would at least give us something to smile about).
Tony Williams
59   Posted 08/10/2008 at 14:19:40

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"I think Connor is dating Leon the way he raves about him"

fantastic debating skills Tony...
Connor Rohrer
60   Posted 08/10/2008 at 14:49:37

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Tony Williams,

That’s Marsh at his best mate, a debator of the highest quality...
Tony Williams
61   Posted 08/10/2008 at 15:09:17

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Yup, the title should actually be "More Misery From The Marshes"
Patty Beesley
62   Posted 08/10/2008 at 15:18:58

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Don’t you just wish we were living in the age when they sent our convicts to Australia.... not that I am suggesting Mr. Marsh does anything illegal.. I just wish we could send him there - you know out of sight out of mind.. on the other hand he would probably have go at everything Australian including Timmy Cahill!!!

I went off him the day he called me his little Welsh daffodil and I am a scouser.
Tony Marsh
63   Posted 08/10/2008 at 15:36:29

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Ah James Marshall, now its your turn to ad lib with my posts. It's now your turn to credit me with things I haven't said. Find me the bit in this post were I have called for Moyes to be sacked... Go on, I dare ye, because it's not there. So why say it?

It appears to me that a certain section of the Everton fanbase will say or do anything other than face the facts about Moyes. I would like him gone but don't think he will go. I have slated his tactics, team selections and his buys in this article ? nothing else. So please read more carefully before you cast aspersions on my good self.
Stefan Tosev
64   Posted 08/10/2008 at 16:05:13

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And BTW how is:

"I think Connor is dating Leon the way he raves about him. " - contibuting to the discussion

If someone uses such a words towards our fellow Evertonian T. Marsh, hurting his sensible soul, his post will be either removed for not contributing tio the discussion or he will be censored but this doesnt apply to our Dear Tony

Tsk,Tsk,Tsk - talking about level playing field and Peoples Club here...
Ottar Gadid
65   Posted 08/10/2008 at 17:16:15

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"The Everton job is one of the biggest in the country, far too big for Moyes, and there would be plenty of takers as long as BK didn’t bullshit them away. "

The question is not if there would be any takers, but if the taker would be better than Moyes. Souness? would probably take it. Curbishley too. Or "Little" Sammy Lee. But it would be shite. Strange, I almost hope Tony Marsh would take it, cause then he’d keep his bloody trap shut.
Michael Brien
66   Posted 08/10/2008 at 17:26:02

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I think Mr Marsh is in danger of getting Tottenhamitis. Rewind to last season around this time. Spurs had been most "experts/pundits" choice prior to the start of 2007-08 to break into the Sky 4. They had finished 5th in the previous two seasons under Martin Jol. However, this wasn?t enough to keep Jol in the manager?s job ? as they sacked him ? bowing to pressure from fans and media.

I wonder what the Spurs? fans think now ? has sacking Jol improved things ? Well they won the Carling Cup, but they have made their worst start since 1912!! Martin Jol? I seem to think his current team SV Hamburg are doing quite well in the Bundesliga...

Tony, you say that you haven?t specifically called for Moyes to be sacked. But I don?t think you have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out that you would like that to happen. Have you suggested an alternative? I mean you have made it quite clear that you disagree with his selection policy/transfer policy and just about everything else. Well who would have as manager to replace him? Let?s have some names then.

Personally, I am NOT happy at our current League position.I t wasn?t a good summer to put it mildly. But I think Moyes can turn the situation around. I remember how bad things looked in 1983 with crowds of 13,000 for League matches and when we lost 0-3 to Wolves who really where the whipping boys of the League - they just starting their fall from top division to bottom tier. But they still beat us!! Howard Kendall was under all kinds of pressure, there were rumours that he was going to be sacked in early January 1984. Thankfully there was no knee-jerk reactions. The rest is history.

Leave the knee-jerk reactions to clubs like Spurs and Newcastle who seem to collect managers like stamps. Have all those changes of managers at White Hart Lane and St James? Park brought either club closer to being successful? I think not!!
Tony, you remind me of a bloke who used to have a season ticket in the Upper Bullens Road stand, in the seat next to my late father. This bloke was always slagging off Bob Latchford. Well he went down to an away game at QPR in October 1977 I think it was. We won 5-1 and Latch scored 4. The next week at Goodison my Dad asked this bloke about the game at Loftus Road. "Latchford did well scoring 4 goals" said my old man to this guy. He waited for the reply ? " Yeah, but he should?ve scored 10!!!" There?s just no pleasing some people is there??!!!

Tony - I suggest you look up the word STABILITY. The teams who struggle tend to be the ones who change their managers the most.

Paul Bassett
67   Posted 08/10/2008 at 16:48:57

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What Moyes has achieved.... what has he achieved? Pretty much nothing bar rousing the lads for a superb display against Fiorentina that fell short with peno?s.

1st leg, we didn't turn up so that tempers that point.

4th was extremely lucky. We all know it deep down. Minus goal difference and a shoddy season by numerous clubs. 5th to 14th is much of a muchness as we are going to find out this year.

So why don't we risk bringing in someone who may be able to get the best out of a decent squad overall.

And hopefully add a bit of quality watchable football into the bargain!

We can but dream!
Mike Price
68   Posted 08/10/2008 at 21:40:14

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Tony?s 100% right... DM is out of his depth and if/when he signs this contract it will be a disaster for the club. He is not an asset, that contract would be a huge liability and would put off potential buyers. It may cost BK too, because anyone with an ounce of football knowledge would remove Moyes. If you were negotiating a price You?d want the club without the liability of Moyes, and thats coming out of BKs slice.

Transfer policy, ability to attract players, style of football, tactical ability, charisma, ability to win something, recognising power and pace, giving the RS any sort of challenge whatsoever..... all non-existent or crap.... and still he has people bleating about who else? Or he?s the best man for the job! It really is UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE!!

Ian Tunny
69   Posted 08/10/2008 at 23:49:47

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Tony, you say

"DM doesn?t do big characters or personalities in the team ? he likes the little quiet types who keep thier mouths shut. On and off the pitch. What good are these type of players when it comes to the trench warfare mentality we now need to survive?"

Tell this to Sir Alex Fergusun and tell him Giggs and Scholes are not big enough personalities to be good players.
Michael Brien
70   Posted 09/10/2008 at 07:07:26

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All the people slagging off Moyes remind me of politicians who rubbish the policies of the other party ? but when asked what they would do are strangely silent. They don?t have any policies of their own to put forward. I have read from some of you about how bad you think Moyes is ? but nobody seems to be suggesting any alternatives.

Paul Basset, you should be ashamed to call yourself an Evertonian, to rubbish the 4th place we acheived in 2004-05. Not because other teams were poor by the way, Paul, ? achieved because a team and a manager that had been written off worked bloody hard and gained some memorable victories and gave us some memorable moments along the way.

History lesson for you: even the Championships teams at Goodison had very bad days e.g. 1938-39 we lost 0-7 at Wolves and in 1969-70 we lost 0-3 to Liverpool. I am sure if you had been around in 1970 you would have said we only won the league because Leeds United had too many Cup games at the end of the season. Maybe you were around then? And that?s what you think.

People like you make me sick ? any run of poor form and off you go slagging off manager/players or board. That?s what the Spurs fans did last season, they got Jol sacked, and look where they are now. Ever heard of getting behind the team some of you??

ps re the Fiorentina defeat ? not many teams get through a Uefa Cup campaign unbeaten. I think it fair to say we had more good European nights than bad ones but true to form guys like Paul choose to major on the bad ? same old story.

Paul Bassett
71   Posted 09/10/2008 at 09:18:08

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I?m not rubbishing fourth place. But there were numerous mitigating external factors that helped us get there. From christmas on we had the form of a mid table side at best.

I?m a football fan first and foremost and Everton do not play good football. That?s a simple fact of the matter.

That?s down to the manager.

And the Spurs situation it was not the fans who hounded Jol out-get your facts straight.

He was hounded out by the big wigs above him. What a big mistake that was.

However, it is not the same case at Everton. Moyes has had 6 full seasons to stamp his style on the team and if what we are seeing at the tail end of last season and the beginning of this is that well then I think a change at the helm would not be the worst thing in the world.

And in replying to a debate that does have grounds unless you are happy to mid-table fodder ? try not to be so condescending.

I have been a Moyes backer without fail and just because I?m beginning to think that maybe he?s done all he can doesn?t make me this pantomime villain.

In fact, people like you make me sick as anyone who questions the status quo or God forbid has an opinion that deals with what is evidenced on a pitch should not be dealt with so dismissively.

The idea of message boards etc is so all angles can be put across!
Josh McCabe
72   Posted 09/10/2008 at 11:43:42

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Come on, lads ? give Moyesey a break. He's got us further than any manager in 20 years. Every teams goes through a bad patch and recovers ? this our bad patch and we will recover to challenge Liverpool for 4th spot again.
Michael Brien
73   Posted 09/10/2008 at 11:28:10

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1. Re mitigating circumstances that helped us to reach 4th place. It?s possible to use that to put down any achievements e.g. in 1969-70 in the first half of the season at one time we had an 8-point lead at the top of the table. By February of 1970 I seem to think we lost top spot for a while. Our form in the first half of the season was clearly better than in the second half until the last 7 games. Nobody suggested that we didn?t derserve the title because we had a slight dip in form over Jan and Feb.

2. if anybody is being dismissive some of your comments re the team are slightly dismissive. Yes the team is going through a period of bad form ? but that happens to all teams at some time during most seasons. Lescott is not playing very well at the moment, a bit inconsistent, but he hasn?t suddenly become a bad player. This time last season everything he was doing was coming off. As the saying goes, form is temporary class is permanent.

3. Also, with regard to being condescending, I think you take a look at some of your comments e.g. "unless you are happy to be mid table fodder". I want to see the Blues up there challenging for the top places. Just because I haven?t joined the "Slag off the Manager/Board Brigade" means I am happy with a mid-table position.

4. Spurs fans didn?t exactly appear to shed too many tears at Jol?s sacking

5. Who do you think would do a better job than Moyes? As I stated previously, it?s very easy to point out faults a lot harder to point out specific solutions. You mention all angles being put across ? I presume that includes the opinion that Moyes should stay as manager?

6. Re potraying you as a Pantomine Villain - Oh no I didn?t! - Oh yes I did!! - Behind You!!!

Colin Lloyd
74   Posted 09/10/2008 at 21:55:01

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I know Hibbert is far from what we need but hasn’t he only played the last few games. We had let a shedload in before he had comeback.
Another thing which amazes me is how Arteta is imflammable and very rarely his inept performances (not just this season) are not picked up on. He doesn’t get picked for Spain because he doesn’t do it often enough.
ged simpson
75   Posted 10/10/2008 at 07:05:02

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Tony M you say

The Everton job is one of the biggest in the country, far too big for Moyes, and there would be plenty of takers as long as BK didn’t bullshit them away.

Rose tinted specs mate. Not many accuse you of that eh ?
Michael Brien
76   Posted 10/10/2008 at 07:24:33

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Colin - Arteta doesn’t get picked for Spain because they have a wealth of talent to choose from.Their winning a trophy - Euro 2008 - was long overdue as Spain have always been one of the fancied teams when the World Cup annd the European Championships come up - but then they fail to deliver - until this summer that is !!
We have made a rather disappointing start to the season - to put it mildly - but as I keep saying I don’t think panic or knee jerk reactions are the answer - they certainly don’t seem to have done much good re the Stock Market !!! Our team are not doing themselves justice at the moment.Some people are reacting by slagging off certain players.I agree that we have quite a few off form - e.g. Lescot who I don’t think is currently worth a place in the England squad.Yakubu looks a bit out of sorts. But I don’t believe that either of these blokes are bad players - far from it - I think they are class acts - they are simply not doing themselves justice on current form.And they are not the only ones - I am just using them as two examples.
There is a temptation amongst supporters at this stage to start slagging off certain players. I agree with todays’ Times article re Fellaini - which points out that it appears that he is being made the scapegoat by some Evertonians. Yes he is our record signing - but sometimes even players who are British take time to settle at a new club.I seem to recall in the early part of the 1983-84 season reading letters in the Footy Echo that were highly critical of Trevor Steven - I think he was the same age as Fellaini - signed for £300,00 (at the time a sizeable fee) from Burnley and came to Goodison with a great reputation. Also have some of us forgotten that the great Neville Southall had a dip in form and was loaned out to Port Vale in 1983 ? We all know what happened to these 2 players - in time their form improved and they fulfilled their potential. Fellani certainly has the talent and ablity to prove the doubters wrong .Give him time - the same with the team - for goodness sake Man City with all their mega million signings aren’t exactly setting the Premiership alight are they ??
Mark Lightfoot
77   Posted 10/10/2008 at 16:02:27

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Marsh, you?re talking crap as ever. Since Moyes arrived we?ve outperformed in terms of where we should be if money was the only means to success. So Moyes must be doing something right. OK so he?s not perfect & neither are the players, but given the funds available they?re all doing a pretty damn good job. Oh & why moan about losing to Newcastle. Any idiot (apart from you it seems) knows that a team with a new manager is likely to put in a much improved performance. And so it turned out to be.
Thom Coleman
78   Posted 10/10/2008 at 20:29:24

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Nobody could argue that we have not improved under David Moyes's spell. Anybody who did argue against that would just be a mumbling buffoon.

He took us from relegation candidates every season, to a team challenging for Europe most seasons. Again, not a point you could argue against.

However, whatever game he has played this summer, has lost all of my respect for him.

I thought he was above that, and understood the fans and the club.

We all know and understand he is dealing with complete idiots at board level, again, that has to be the truth surely?
You could not be as pathetic as the current directors and get away with it! unless of course you had nobody else to answer to. A thing that they have managed to make sure they are well in control of!

I pray that the club is sold ASAP, and I can only think that a fresh start might be best for all.

Unless we get money to compete with the top 4, we will simply not challenge them. And due to the expectations Mr Moyes has now set amongst fans, he will constantly be fighting a losing battle.

Unless we can bring in players in the £15-20M bracket we cannot make the next step IMO.

But in truth, we don?t have the appeal for them type of players. Unless you are a complete mercenary like Robinho, and join a club you really do not want to join, we will simply be bypassed or an afterthought.

When we do find a good player, then he will be snapped up by a top European club.

There is no room at the top table anymore, and the clubs dining there will make sure of that.
Dave Griffin
79   Posted 11/10/2008 at 19:44:13

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The heading says ’More Misery on the Mersey - Tony Marsh’. How deliciously apt!
Duncan McDine
80   Posted 14/10/2008 at 15:17:35

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Tony - its an interesting read, don?t agree about much of what you?ve said, but what I?d like to know is this:-

How do you feel when Everton win and play well? Think back to last season when we went on an excellent run in Europe and in the league (for about 3 months). Do you feel as overjoyed as the rest of us, or do you feel a slight embarrassment that they?ve somehow proved you wrong?

Its not a wind-up question, I?d just like to know if watching Everton ever makes you happy.

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