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In support of David Moyes

By Richard Parker :  16/10/2008 :  Comments (56) :
There have been a lot of submissions tearing apart the decision to give Moyes his new contract and bumper pay-rise. I'd like to just try and balance that.

I'm sure that you've already guessed that I am pro-Moyes. I think that he has done a really good job so far at Everton, he has made massive progress since he took over. Yes, he has had a fair bit of cash to spend and he has used it very well in some cases and not so well in others.

He has taken us from perennial relegation battlers, to the brink of Champion's League football. It hasn't always been pretty and we have had a couple of pretty poor seasons since he's been with us. But I believe that he is building something gradually. He has been bringing in the right sort of players in general since he took over and his successful buys outweigh his unsuccessful ones for sure.

This season has been a huge disappointment, for all of us, so far. At the end of last season we expected some talent in to push on and try to break the top-4. The summer was an enormous let-down for us all, seemingly from Moyes's demeanour, it was a let-down for him more than most.

No-one knows why the summer's transfer dealings went so wrong but it appears to me that we were skint. The AJ transfer more or less paid for Fellaini and the players out pretty much covered the wages for the players in. All I can read into it is that Moyes did not get the backing he wanted to kick-on and fulfill his ambitions for the club. He never made a secret of his contract depending upon Everton being able to compete and rightly so. I wouldn't want to be doing a job where I knew that I could never do what I really wanted to do, who would?

I think the signing of Fellaini could prove a good one and it's a sign that Moyes is looking long-term, rather than for quick wins with potential longer term losses. I'm hoping that stability will now allow continuity in our general improvement. Although it's difficult at this point of our season to talk of improvement, the job at hand is to steady the ship and look at qualifying again for Europe. And the club until now is on a general upward curve since Moyes took over. The next step is going to be the most difficult, to get from the best of the rest to genuine contenders.

Can Moyes make us into genuine challengers for honours? I honestly don't know. I can be as frustrated as the next man with the football I see at times. Again, this season has been an unmitigated disaster to-date, so the bumper contract signing against this backdrop is really bad timing. However, last season Moyes has proved that he can get the players at his disposal to really play good football. Some of it was verging on great football for a short period of last season. So who is to say that he can't do it again?

For me, the key player for that football last season was Pienaar, the link-up play between him and Arteta and the other front guys was bloody brilliant at times. I hope that he can help out with that a bit now that he's back to fitness. I know it's not all about one single player, but look at the squad we have now. As far as I'm concerned it is as good as any outside the Sky 4. There are weaknesses there and it can be vastly improved, but apart from United and Chelsea, who can't? Now it is up to Moyes to prove his worth and get these players playing.

Moyes has done an awful lot for Everton and I'm not being 'happy in our mediocrity' which a lot of people get accused of on here. I want to win things, I want to see us in the Champion's League and I want lots of silverware. But also we need to be realistic about all this; there are two solutions to our situation: One is money, lots of it and a very good manager. The other is an enourmous amount of hard work, belief and a very good manager.

We can be happy with our slow progress with a greater goal in mind. We are allowed to be happy that we got to a semi-final and at the same time disappointed not to make the final. We can also be happy that we had a 100% record until the Fiorentina game in the Uefa Cup, especially when you look at our last foray into Europe before that. But still it's disappointing that we couldn't quite get past the Italians, with the cup so close. It's not black and white ? "you're happy with mediocrity, I want to win trophies".

Moyes is a good manager, as he has proved with two Manager of the Year awards and his turnaround of EFC. Remember Keegan's "they are where we want to be" statement last season? There have been several times where Everton have been cited as the model of what the rest of the Premier League aspire to.

Only an idiot or a liar would deny that Moyes has done a good job at Everton up until this season. Yes, he still has a lot to prove. He needs to show that he is the man to improve us again and that's a huge task. Yes, the football we've seen since Fiorentina last year has been poor. And yes, for £70k a week, he needs to be serving up something a bit special. But to slate him in the fashion that has been happening here is just ridiculous. I'm happy to give him a year or two to try and improve us again. I'd rather prove that he isn't the man for the job than go on a potential disastrous search for his ideal replacement.

He needs time to figure out the next job at hand. He's done a really good job in polishing turds and getting us to where we are. The next step is a whole different challenge and he needs to adapt to that challenge. To kick him out and throw umpteen different names at the job is a very risky path to potentially undo the foundations put in place over several years.

Reader Comments

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Brian Waring
1   Posted 16/10/2008 at 15:47:05

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Paul Lenehan
2   Posted 16/10/2008 at 15:52:52

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Its good to see some constructive posts in reply to your article Richard.
Tony Marsh
3   Posted 16/10/2008 at 15:51:45

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Yes Brian I am yawning to but also I am very concerned about the contract we have just given DM. The Moyes supporters just won't see the damage this stupid £70k a week will do to the club. They think DM is worth every penny but Moyes and Kenwright have made rods for thier own backs with this bumper fat-cat salary, heres why.

David Moyes is now the top earner at the club and his weekly pay packet is far bigger than any of the top earning players at the club. Yakubu and Neville are the big earners but both coming in under £50k a week.

Do you think Sir Alex is on more money than Rooney, Rohnaldo or Ferdinand at Man Utd? No chance.... Do you think Mark Hughes takes home more than Rohbino or Wright-Philips? No way. How about Big Phil Scholari at Chelsea ? is he pocketing more than Lampard, Terry or Ballack? I don't think so. Does Rafa Benethus get more than Torres or Gerrard?Not in a million years.

Now we have the ludicrous situation at Everton were players are on less money than the manager and you can just imagine the resentment and jealousy this will now cause. We are talking about a man who has won nothing as either a player or manager, who is out-earning the players at the club by at least £20k a week.

It's a powder keg waiting to go off and imagine how the fans will feel when Moyes has taken us in to the bottom 3 by Xmas and still draws his £70k each week because that's where we are heading make no mistake.

Only at Everton would such nonsense be allowed to happen and Moyes better be ready for the flak that will come his way when things get even worse than they are now. Two losses in the coming games and we are on the way to another of Moyes's trough seasons.

Believe me the tin hats better get dusted off at the Kenwright and Moyes mansions in the coming months... and all you lot thinking this was a great idea ? just watch this space.
Ciarán McGlone
4   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:16:37

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I would take issue with your labelling of us as ?best of the rest? would seem this is a somewhat overhyped moniker based on last season's finishing positions rather than any sense of reality.

I think we?ve a long way to go before properly claiming that ?best of the rest? title.
Andy Crooks
5   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:03:31

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A pretty good argument, Richard, but I disagree wth a few points. I think a lot of what DM achieved for Everton was based on system which no longer seems to work, i.e 4-5-1. Also, the Yak is not the man to play in such a system. I still believe that Fellaini was a panic buy and if he turns out ok it will have been a stroke of luck rather than inspiration.

While I believe that Carsley was, at best, a hard-working journeyman, to let him go without a replacement lined up was simply bad management.

It has seemed to me lately that both the manager and players are lacking in the passion that was the Moyes hallmark. Still, though I?d rather he?d gone, this is what we?ve got. So let?s get behind him.

Richard Parker
6   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:14:15

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It is a fair point that the £70k/wk could be a millstone for the club. It is definitely true that Moyes has something serious to prove now.

If someone could guarantee that Moyes?s departure from Everton would reap rewards in silverware, then I?d be all for it. But no-one can.

3 examples: Ramos at Spurs and a shite-load of cash, they?re bottom. Houllier at Liverpool and a shite-load of cash, nowhere near winning the Premier League. Benitez at Liverpool and a shite-load of cash also nowhere near winning the Premier Leahue.

The only yawn on here is Tony?s assertions that we?re going to be in the bottom 3 by Xmas. Heard your pessimistic predictions regurgitated dozens of times over the last however many seasons and yet we seem to have managed top-6 finishes 3 out of 4 seasons.......

Keep predicting Tony and one day you might get it right. Then you can tell us all that you told us so.
Andy Crooks
7   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:20:03

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I agree, Ciaran, we?re by no means best of the rest and, anyway, is that all we can aspire to?
Dan McKie
8   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:11:44

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I think its time for people to accept that some people like Moyes, and some dont, and try and find different topics to talk about! All it is on here at the mo is ’I love Moyes’ and ’I hate Moyes’ stories with the replies to either, being exactly the same!
Damian Kelly
9   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:19:45

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Yeah you’re right Tony - if I found out I was earning less than my boss I’d kick off big time. Hmm...
Colin Potter
10   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:09:26

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He?s had nearly 7 years to steady the boat, Richard, how long do want to give him? I think he has proved, without a shadow of doubt he hasn?t got what it takes to take this club forward. You say you will give him a couple of years? What's the betting he will be telling us he needs another 5 years to complete the job in 2013?
Rob Hollis
11   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:24:34

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All the salaries are crazy but how many companies pay the staff more than the Manager?

I think the clubs who do are mad. What does it say about the level of importance to the club. To think any individual player is worth more than the perpetually succesful Alex Ferguson for instance is wrong.
Colin Potter
12   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:31:26

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Houlier, shed load of cash, Didn?t he walk away with 5 trophies while with the rs? beyond Moyes?s wildest dreams, methinks!
Brian Waring
13   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:33:47

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Richard, the yawn comment, it was because we have heard it all before. He has done done a decent job, but in his 6½ years here, he has won zilch, and the majority of the time, the football he has us playing is dire, to say the least. We have the odd few games a season were we play some good stuff, and then for some reason, we revert back to hoofball again.

Moyes is just so predictable and negative, you just know against Arsenal and the Mancs, it will be ultra defensive. It would be great just for once, for him to just send the lads out and go for it, you never know what might happen with this attitude. If we ended up getting a tonking, I would accept it, as long as we had a go. Thing is, can you see us going for it?

Richard Harris
14   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:47:31

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Richard Parker wrote "3 examples: Ramos at Spurs and a shite-load of cash, they're bottom. Houllier at Liverpool and a shite-load of cash, nowhere near winning the Premier League. Benitez at Liverpool and a shite-load of cash also nowhere near winning the Premier League."

To be fair, although Liverpool got nowhere near the title they did win a few trophies and they were far nearer to top of the Premier League than we have been. Will Moyes better Benitez?s record at Liverpool? I?d love to dream but it just isn?t going to happen. Only when we get a manager who?s not in awe of the ?bigger? clubs. That?s what was good about Mourinho when he arrived in the Premier League. He didn?t give a toss for Arsenal's, Liverpool's or Mancester United?s history.

Tony Marsh
15   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:56:15

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Damien Kelly, are you really that out of touch with reality, mate? I know people who stack shelves in Tescos or flip burgers in Mcdonald's won't be on more than thier boss [God give me strength] but in the EPL it is unheard of for a manger to be the top earner at the club. I will take any bets you like on it. There fore this deal Moyes just sucked out of us can mean nothing but trouble.

What if Yakubu scores 35 goals this season and wants a pay rise? "We ain't got it," says Bill. "Well, soft lad's on £70k a week ? I want parity." Surely you see it, FFS... WAKE UP.
Mark Stone
16   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:00:22

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"We have the ludicrous situation at Everton were players are on less money than the manager"

Yes Tony Marsh,

Ridiculous that the manager be on more money than those working for him.

Damian Kelly
17   Posted 16/10/2008 at 16:59:35

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Richard H - re Mourinho - he took over a top 4 side and spent £100million plus (can't be bothered looking up the figures) - makes it a bit easier not to give a toss re the other big sides.

It's nothing to do with being in awe, it's about having the money to compete ? that's why football is crap these days.

And another thing ? what's all this racket that the youngsters listen to? They dont even play their own instruments.

[Exit stage right, chuntering...]
Damian Kelly
18   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:05:25

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Its not just people who stack shelves or flip burgers its 99% of the working population. The fact that it doesn't happen in football doesn't make it right.

The likes of Mourinho, Scolari, SAF, Wenger etc are all amongst the top paid employees in their clubs - the few players that earn more than them are the "global superstars" and the last time we looked we didn't have any of them

I?m perfectly in touch with reality thanks - I just chose not to accept your reality. Do you really not understand that there are perfectly acceptable views that don't match your own?

Kelvin Styles
19   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:00:13

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It?s always somebody else?s fault with you Moyes apologists. He behaved like a spoilt brat during the summer and whether that was due to Kenwright playing hard-ball over transfer funds or the contract on offer matters not. He represents the club and if he didn?t like how they treated him he should have done one.

Most of us realise that Fellaini was a last minute panic buy in an attempt to shut us up. It already looks ill-judged with Moyes's public statement that he don?t run about enough (send for AJ!).

If he only had £15M or so, he should have lowered his sights and gone for the likes of Bullard, Sidwell and Doyle ?and I don?t mean at 23:55 on 30th August.
Just don?t rate the fellow!

Tony Marsh
20   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:10:47

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So what you are saying then Damien is that Moyes deserves to be paid more than Yakubu who scored 20 plus goals season? Moyes deserves to be head and shoulder above all his squad when it comes to pay day? Moyes is such a great manger he commands this type of salary? HA HA HA HA. What are you on lad?

If Moyes is the kind of manager whose abilities demand he be paid similar wages to Englad Internationals, why haven't any other clubs either at home or abroad come sniffing about for his services? Not even the likes of Newcastle or Spurs where interested in him. Just about says it all really.
Damian Kelly
21   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:23:43

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You?re assuming in your black and white world Tony that I am pro Moyes.

You made the point that is was crazy for the Manager to be paid more than the players ? I don't agree.

You say the salary is crazy ? I don't agree. The £60k puts him in the top 5-8 managers for pay which is where his results deserve to put him.

You say what happens if Yak score 35 goals? We?ll be in the champions league so a payrise will be easy and Moyes salary will have been justified. (Of course we wouldn't actually have to give Yak a payrise as he?d be off to a bigger club if he was that good)

You assume Mags/Spurs weren't interested in Moyes ? where's the evidence? How do you know it wasn't the other way around?

On a separate matter, should Moyes have been given a new contract at that level? ? I?m ambivalent veering to probably not.

What am I on? A bit of logic and balance ? I don't expect you to understand either of those concepts.
Richard Parker
22   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:31:17

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Colin - I think Moyes more than steadied the ship in the last 6 years to be fair. I was referring to this season.

Yes, I think he?s earnt another couple of seasons, including this one. Once we start to drop off, because whatever people want to say, until the end of last season we were still improving, then revise the situation. If that makes me an apologist then fair enough.
Billy Colman
23   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:21:13

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IF Moyes had left who would we have got to replace him ? The new man would have to bring in new staff, then he would buy and sell in January the likes of Cahill and Arteta would have probably gone. Then we would really have been in the shit. Without money unfortunately we have to creep and go and none of the big name managers would come to us. We would have to recruit a manager from the lower leagues......... or one who had been sacked.
Andy Crooks
24   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:39:16

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How about a defence of Walter Smith?

The pro-Moyes Evertonians point out that DM has moved us away from the dark days of Walter Smith. Well, dark days they might have been but Walter really didn?t have any money to spend. In comparison, DM has spent a king's ransom and in my view the football is no better.

Walter Smith is a proven winner; David Moyes isn?t. But, as I said earlier, we?re stuck with him. It also confirms my opinion that Bill Kenwright will never sell Everton. Quite honestly, Everton are a much less attractive target for an investor than they were a few days ago.

Tony Ullman
25   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:53:25

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Editor: Perhaps we could have poll on who we would have chosen to have as manager IF Moyes hadn?t re-signed? Or on how long we think he will last in the job? Or what will happen if we get relegated? Or.....zzzzz
Damien Kennedy
26   Posted 16/10/2008 at 17:58:51

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Tony Marsh, you have summed up every thing that is wrong about the Premier League and with it you have lost all sense of reality. The total lack of repect for leadership (managers, Chairman referees etc) in football has been borne out of the inflated salaries paid to the players. When a mediocre first-team player commands a higher salary than his boss, how can there be any respect?

Moyes deserves to be the highest paid individual at the club because he is the only one with the drive and determination and passion to move us on. You and some of the regular contributors to TW have really lost all sense of perspective, I feel like reacting to some of your rubbish posts every day and find myself biting my tongue. Wake up and smell something besides your own feet!!!!

Andy Griff
27   Posted 16/10/2008 at 18:12:38

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[i]Its nothing to do with being in awe, it's about having the money to compete[/i]

Ah, the sound of the nail hitting the head.

How difficult is this to understand? Given the relative resources of the Sky Four and EFC, Moyes has quite clearly done a great job at the club, slowly but surely improving the squad and the style of play as time has gone on. Sure, we haven?t won anything under DM but it only takes a quick glance at the spending of the Sky Four to work out why that is.

Moyes has taken us to the very edge of being competitive with the Champions League Cartel (remember those articles in the Telegraph, Indie etc last season as we sat above LFC in the table discussing how possible it might be for Everton to gatecrash the megabuck party?) on a relative shoestring.

Sure, Moyes ummed and ahhed about the new contract but then, quite frankly, it could be argued that the club needed him more than he needed the club at that point, as difficult as that may be for the fans to swallow. His ambition is admirable and actually reassuring. He wanted assurances that he would be given a chance to take Everton to where he wanted.

And what?s wrong with that, I have to ask?
Tony Marsh
28   Posted 16/10/2008 at 19:03:20

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Damien, your last post really does prove you haven't a clue, mate. I know the salaries in the EPL are inflated and shite players are paid way over the top but that's another thread.

What I am saying, whether you agree with it or not, is that today's modern player wants the earth and then some. If a player at a club thinks he should be the top earner what will he think if a jumped up PE Teacher like Moyes is out-earning him?

The next time Everton go in for a player who is any good, what will the players agent say???? Well, David Moyes is on £70k a week so that's the starting point for our negotiations. Then the players already at the club will think, "Hang on a minute, I want blah blah because blah blah is getting it......" Do you get it now or is that to hard for you to grasp???
Chris Stone
29   Posted 16/10/2008 at 19:13:45

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Re Andy Crooks -

You say Walter Smith is a proven winner?? Yes he got a lot of Scottish titles (two-horse race) but other than that? He has a rather dour and defensive outlook/mindset and I wouldn’t say he’d be any better with the same team than Moyes in a big-game scenario. Look how his Rangers were hardly at the races for the UEFA Cup final!

Do you not remember some of the poor results (0-3 at home v Tranmere, always losing to Ipswich are quick examples) we had under Smith and also the whole 6/7 defenders in the starting line-up etc. And what about all the past-it players he kept signing (Gazza, Ginola et al)? Doesn’t strike me as that much of a winner really.

Moyes was an improvement on Smith, no doubt.
Damien Kennedy
30   Posted 16/10/2008 at 20:44:07

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Tony Marsh - Do you honestly believe any chairman worth his salt would negotiate a players salary on the basis of what the manager earns. Unless you havent noticed in a management postion job specification, it differs somewhat from a football player's, or in your world do you draw job salary comparisons between cleaners and doctors, teachers and policemen, etc? The basis of your argument is somewhat flawed. Like I and Damain Kelly both suggest. Come back from whatever planet you reside on and stop smoking what your smoking, it obviously affects your judgement .....
Dan Swift
31   Posted 16/10/2008 at 21:50:55

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I think its daft we even know what Moyes is earning at all. The whole thing was made far too public (both Moyes's and Kenwright's fault) and became the main story over the past two months.

I have no idea what any other manager is on to even compare. Is Martin O?Neil on this kind of cash? Is he the clubs top earner?

The only thing this can guarentee for me is that Moyes will not live up to his "price tag" and every mistake he makes is much more "costly".

It will also form the cornerstone of every anti-Moyes argument ? and rightly so. If managers are to be paid like players, they will face the same criticism!!
Damien Kennedy
32   Posted 16/10/2008 at 22:18:31

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So you are another Moyes knocker!!! Can you remember the dull days of Walter Smith, Mike Walker, Kendall's third spell, Harvey, Lee, Bingham. Well I can and Moyes has done more for this club than many before him. Over the last few years I have once again got used to seeing us winning most of our games at Goodison and more than our fair share of away fixtures. I am not saying it is perfect yet, but god much improved...
John Andrews
33   Posted 17/10/2008 at 00:34:58

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Andy, Are you serious ? Improving our style of play !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You must be on some form of medication.
Sean Condon
34   Posted 17/10/2008 at 03:29:40

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Personally, I think that the manager should be on more money than any of the players at any club.

Enough of the anti-Moyes shit, please. He?s signed... now let?s get behind the club.

Andy Crooks
35   Posted 17/10/2008 at 07:57:14

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Chris Stone, the SPL is a two-horse race but plenty of decent coaches have found it a tough two-horse race, eg Paul le Guen (sorry about the spelling) Liam Brady, Lou Macari and the late Tommy Burns.

In the nineties Walter Smith took a Rangers team a long way in the Champions League playing attractive exciting football. He was able to do so because he had money to spend and spent it well (eg Brian Laudrup). At Everton he had no money, signed over-the-hill players and, out of necessity, played dour defensive football.

David Moyes has had, in comparison to Smith, spent a fortune yet we still play, quite often, dour defensive football. Smith is derided, Moyes is a hero. The truth is that both are pretty average but the one we have now is bleeding us dry.

Chris Brigden
36   Posted 17/10/2008 at 08:44:49

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Mr Kennedy, you are completeley wrong. As a loyal Everton fan, it is time to stop referring to the old days and move on.

ps: I love England and Walcott so much.
Matthew Williams
37   Posted 17/10/2008 at 08:52:34

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All this talk about the contract and the amount is not really relevent as no one knows how much Moyes is earning or how it is paid. I will be extremely surprised if it is a straight £70k per week. It is all paper speculation, the details will never be leaked out by the club or Moyes. The fact is Moyes has signed for 5 years and I am delighted as I have no doubt the players he has brought here will be as well.
Damian Kelly
38   Posted 17/10/2008 at 08:54:42

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"Do you get it now or is it that hard to grasp?"

Your arrogance really does know no bounds. I do "get" your point (such as it is) as you generally only have one point (which you labour constantly with hyperbole and insults - have you ever learnt how to communicate without being a playground bully?).

Whilst I understand your point, I disagree totally with it (can you comprehend that?).

If a player is so desperate to be the number one earner at the club that they will throw their toys out of the pram, either we will pay it if they are worth it or (more likely) they either arent the type of player that we want at the club or are more likely to go the City, Mags, Hammers or whoever will pay the most.

Again, I?m not arguing the point of what Moyes is or isn't worth, just stating as a business model that I think it is right that the Manager is the highest paid employee and that players who can't live with that shouldn't be signed.
Chris Brigden
39   Posted 17/10/2008 at 09:19:11

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Sean if your not prepared to debate the Moyes issue then stop posting your messages on the board. I'm fed up of reading silly remarks.
Larry Boner
40   Posted 17/10/2008 at 09:29:42

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Call me cynical, but heres what I think happened close season and through the summer.

Mr Kenwright says to Mr Moyes "We have the new contract all written up for you to sign, doubled your wages over next 5 years"
Mr Moyes: "Great, where do I sign and how much will I be getting for players?"
Mr Kenwright: "Ah well, that's the situation, we have used all the money we had, to pay for your new contract"
Mr Moyes: "So I?ll have to continue with what I?ve got? OK it will be a struggle, but we can manage with the current staff til January."
Mr Kenwright: "Well, Dave, actually you will need to sell Johnson, that is paying for the contract along with the McFadden cash, not get Fernandes on loan and no contract extension for Carsley."
Mr Moyes: "Well, you can stick the contract, plenty of other clubs are after me."
Wyness: "Oh really, then fuck off then!"
Wyness then exits the room never to return.

Skip forward 2 months. £30 million loan taken out, Fellaini signed last minute, no offers for Moyes apart from Everton's and contract eventually gets signed. Hence doom and gloom at start of season with Moyes basically telling everyone that it's not his fault and we are not ready to play Premier League football!

One month later, wrong end of table out of two cups first time of asking.

Rob Jones
41   Posted 17/10/2008 at 10:20:14

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Chris - you start having a go at Sean and Damien about their posts and silly remarks, yet you end with "Ps I love England and Walcott so much." Get a grip FFS!
Chris Brigden
42   Posted 17/10/2008 at 10:39:10

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Rob what have you got against England. Firstly I am an Everton fan but secondly an England fan. I am fed up with everyone getting on the i hate England band wagon. What are you on Rob.
Dave Lynch
43   Posted 17/10/2008 at 09:31:44

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Let?s face it. If you equate his wages to the standard of football he is churning out, then he is not worth 70p, never mind £70k.

Also, for all the bleating from the apologists, telling us to give him time? The man has had no money? The grass is the wrong colour, or any other lame excuse you want to trot out for the utter total boring predictable garbage we are watching.

Then I am making demands. I demand for that money a top 5 finish. Top 5 or piss off. I am not listening anymore to excuse-mongers telling me Moyes is the best we can do. He isn?t for that money. FACT!

No excuses, top 5 or piss off.

Rob Jones
44   Posted 17/10/2008 at 10:52:08

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Chris - what are you on?
I?m an England fan through and through - but when did this TW thread from Richard become an England one, or a Walcott one? We are talking about Everton and Moyes. Start a new article if you want to discuss the national team and I?ll happily chat all day about them.

What I think was crass, was you having a go at Sean about silly remarks, after you put such a prissy PS on an earlier post. Let?s move on ? unless you want to advise us all of your other loves in your life ? yawn!

Chris Brigden
45   Posted 17/10/2008 at 11:28:15

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Rob this thread is about Moyes and Everton can you please get back to the point, everybody is bored reading your pointless comments - yawn yawn!

PS please bore somebody else
Christine Foster
46   Posted 17/10/2008 at 12:26:49

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I think Andy Crooks got it spot on when he said Moyes is a hero, well not in my book but he deserves credit for the first part of a rebuild of the team job, except I think it was time for the club to change its manager for one who could build on what Moyes put together. That's like admitting DM can?t take us any further and I sort of think thats true.

The club lost focus for so many reasons and responsibility for that rests with the manager, the chairman and yes the players too. When (if) a new owner comes in (as I have said before) the BK DM partnership will end as both will go. Mark Hughes must be looking over his shoulder every day waiting for the axe to fall, hopefully he will make it to the end of the season but I doubt if he will be there next year. Same for Moyes and I would suspect there is a water-tight clause in his contract should the board or new owner want a change.

I like Moyes for what he did but in truth we are paying the price for bad decisions on and off the pitch. Some of them his. Perhaps the bullet should have been bitten but it was never going to happen whilst BK sat in the chair.

Christine Foster
47   Posted 17/10/2008 at 12:38:35

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With respect to Walter Smith, much maligned on here but he had virtually bugger all to spend and was caught in the middle of a boardroom dispute that almost took the club to relegation. He (Smith) copped the blame for bringing in has-beens and journeymen, cobbled a side together that just kept us in the league. At least he tried to play football and not hoofball.
Chris Brigden
48   Posted 17/10/2008 at 14:10:19

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Christine stop defending Walter Smith he was an awful manager who played awful football.

PS I love Theo Walcott
Ben Jones
49   Posted 16/10/2008 at 20:14:28

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I was looking at a factfile for Moyes at TeamTalk and I had only just realised that Moyes has won 2 LMA Managers of the year award.

Now, considering the Marshes of the world think he's awful, we were never gonna get another manager who has won awards like that. I for one am glad Moyes has signed a new contract.. as we were never ever gonna get someone better anyway.. even though I admit there have been a lot of serious, SERIOUS mistakes this season so far!

David Holroyd
50   Posted 17/10/2008 at 15:22:45

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People keep saying Moyes has won two LMA awards but that is now history. The style of football is shocking, look for yourselves. Moyes has had 6 seasons to get a decent footballing side. Alright, the first 4 were to steady the club but now we need to play a better fluid style... does it look better to you? If it does I must be looking at another game.
Chris Brigden
51   Posted 17/10/2008 at 16:37:03

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David Holroyd Im fed up of listening to supid comments made by people like yourself.

Kepp your opinions to yourself.
Brian Waring
52   Posted 17/10/2008 at 17:20:10

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Chris, the last time I looked, Toffeeweb was a place to come and post your opinions, so why should David keep his to himself? Could it be that his opinion differs from yours, concerning Moyes? I think you need to grow up lad.
EJ Ruane
53   Posted 17/10/2008 at 17:58:50

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"Jumped up PE teacher"

Still laughing here.
EJ Ruane
54   Posted 17/10/2008 at 18:04:51

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Oh....and I ALWAYS root for whoever England are playing coz it gets on the nerves of the ’patriotic’.

Sorry, but being randomly dropped from a womb to a land-mass that I did not choose and that took no thought or skill on my part, does not make my chest heave with patriotic pride.

Nor is it enough to make me watch ’Stevie G Laaaar’ without thinking ""

But...that’s just me.
Chris Brigden
55   Posted 17/10/2008 at 19:27:53

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E J Ruane I thought we were supposed to be discussing Everton and Moyes I think you are on the wrong message board.

PS I love Walcott
Alan Ross
56   Posted 17/10/2008 at 21:53:35

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Where?s Doddy when you need a laugh?

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