The Mail Bag

So it was offside after all!

Comments (21)

Amazing really. Everybody missed it including David Moyes himself. The decision was so subtle but so right. But there is a caveat. Let me explain.

I've watched the video over and over again. Piquionne takes the ball to the by-line after Distin slips. He's right on the line. He then passes the ball into the crowded penalty area to Vanden Borre. Immediately, he gets the ball back. As he gets it back he is definitely offside as he is right on the line. Tim Howard and his defenders are all slightly in front of the line, naturally.

Now here's the caveat. Does he get the ball back from Vanden Borre or from an Everton player? It's difficult to see. If the latter, then he has been played onside. If it is from Vanden Borre, he is offside. He then passes the ball to O'Hara who flicks it across the goal area to the unmarked Vanden Borre to score.

From what I can see, Piquoinne originally passed the ball to Vanden Borre who returned the ball straightaway. At that moment, the lad became active and the flag went up. Everyone is looking at Vanden Borre and saying he's not offside — which is true. But we're looking at the wrong player!

There it is. Solved!
David  Ellis, Formby     Posted 10/05/2010 at 23:39:07

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Eric Myles
1   Posted 11/05/2010 at 06:44:15

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I agree with you, I saw the same thing, the player that left the field returned and was offiside when the ball was played to him. However, I'm pretty sure that the linesman did not raise the flag then, he only raised it when the goal was scored.
Dave Wilson
2   Posted 11/05/2010 at 06:43:41

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Sorry David lad, but it`ll take a bit more than that to explain the current offside laws. No two people interpret them the same way. I can't bring myself to cheer a goal anymore until I`ve seen the linesman run away with his fklag down.
Ben Rogers
3   Posted 11/05/2010 at 08:36:48

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It really wasn't that hard to spot — even Dean Windass eventually worked it out on Soccer Saturday!! Why so many people were bemused by it is beyond me. The only bit that I'm not 100% clear on, is who the ball came off to go back to Piquionne, the replays don't really show it from the right angle. But no-one even mentioned this on Match of the Day. it was all about Vanden Borre wrongly being flagged off side — how much do these commentators get paid to miss obvious things like that?? Winds me up!!
David Hallwood
4   Posted 11/05/2010 at 09:35:23

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Ah but Trevor 'Knobhead' Francis said it was onside and that's good enough for me.
Colin Potter
5   Posted 11/05/2010 at 09:41:39

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From what I remember, the linesman didn't put his flag up until it was going in the net.
Matt Traynor
6   Posted 11/05/2010 at 09:43:30

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Have to confess I didn't watch the game, but from what you've written I have a pretty good idea of what happened. The thing that winds a lot of fans up is that, with a different set of officials, you may have got a different outcome.

There are those in the media that think refs should be interviewed after games to explain key decisions. Anyone who remembers the flash interview Graham Poll gave after THAT decision will know why the FA would never allow that!

Adam Fenlon
7   Posted 11/05/2010 at 10:30:26

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Thought you must've meant Jags's header vs Stoke... I'm not fussed about confusing decisions that actually go in our favour for a change!
Mike Green
8   Posted 11/05/2010 at 11:58:50

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Ha ha, Dave Wilson! Thank God it's not just me!

I'm the same and it's killed part of the game for me. It isn't just reserved for offside either — as soon as the ball hits the net my immediate thought is "Won't be allowed, no idea why but it won't be..", I shoot a look over to the lino, then the ref and if they're both on their way then happy days!

That split second of doubt takes a right kick out of the elation of scoring though.
Thomas Christensen
9   Posted 11/05/2010 at 11:59:07

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Having just seen it again on YouTube, I think you are right, David. O'Hara played back to Piquoinne, who was offside.

I watched from the extended Sky highlights and Trevor Francis wasn't wise to it, but as David Hallwood put it he is a 'knobhead'.

Matt Traynor — what was 'that decision' for which you speak??
Matt Traynor
10   Posted 11/05/2010 at 12:16:42

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Thomas, it was when Poll disallowed a goal from Don Hutchison against our neighbours. He claimed he'd blown for full time, but the ball had crossed the line before he actually blew. The fact he gave several different reasons when asked in interviews made it worse. Every team gets bad decisions. Ours always seem to be against that lot!
Anand Rabheru
11   Posted 11/05/2010 at 12:37:12

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Dont know what the issue was here as it was clear offside and pretty obvious, I spotted it straight away.

I think where the confusion came was because the lino, sorry, I mean Referee's Assistant, was SO late in raising the flag!!!
Dave Smith
12   Posted 11/05/2010 at 13:55:51

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"Graham Poll gave after THAT decision"

Yeah, I remember that. We where robbed. The FA refused to do anything, and Graham Poll went on to become the country's 'top' official.

Change as many rules as you want. But until you bring your referees into line, it's pointless.
Thomas Christensen
13   Posted 11/05/2010 at 14:04:53

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Ahhhh yes, I do remember that. Was it the game that the Liverpool keeper (was it Westerveld?) had kicked the ball into the back of Don's head and it then deflected in?
Matthew Mackey
14   Posted 11/05/2010 at 14:24:09

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I can explain this in simpler terms.

We had a perfectly good goal disallowed at the Britannia stadium a week earlier due to subjective scrutiny of the offside rule. The authorities realized it was somewhat dubious to disallow it and so decided to even things up a week later when Portsmouth scored an equally good goal. You see, things DO even themselves up by the end of the season!

Both goals should have counted and if they did then we would have finished one point closer to the RS.
Dan Brierley
15   Posted 11/05/2010 at 15:34:19

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If that were the case, why did the linesman only flag when the ball was put into the net, as Colin quite rightly pointed out?
Dennis Stevens
16   Posted 11/05/2010 at 16:47:18

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I suspect that the linesman instinctively knew it was offside but probaly not why - so if he's reading this thread he'll now know he was right after all, & why - on the other hand perhaps it just took him that long to work out that there was an offside interfering with play!
Matthew Mackey
17   Posted 11/05/2010 at 16:53:25

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Dan, I'm havin a laugh! End of season and all that. In truth I ain't got a clue why these decisions were made by the men in black. One things for sure though — there's fuck all we can do about it now so I for one won't be losing any sleep about it.

Let's just all look forward with excitement to another silly season full of frustration and lack of transfer activity... oh, and a World Cup!

Mike Allison
18   Posted 11/05/2010 at 21:20:55

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No, it went back to Piquionne off Distin, not offside.
Mike Allison
19   Posted 11/05/2010 at 21:22:07

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The linesman also clearly doesn't flag that anway, he flags Vanden Borre.
Ian Smitham
20   Posted 11/05/2010 at 23:50:16

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Matthew, really you ought to try to understand the laws of the game. Note they are not rules. Obviously Victor was gaining an advantage by being where he was, blocking the Goalie. Equally, if the ball is defected off a defending player unintentionally then that contact does not count.

On here it is easy to comment but I guess it would help if the comments are at least informed.

"The authorities realised it" FFS
Phil Roberts
21   Posted 12/05/2010 at 12:33:49

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Was away so not seen the highlights until tonight, but if Piquionne is on the line, any suggestion he went out of play and came back on again — and that was the thing the linesman spotted.

Otherwise, you just have to step off the pitch to stay on side and then back again etc etc so there must be something about coming back on without permission or a break of play.

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