The Mail Bag

Mikel Arteta

Comments (101)

Spain have released their provisional squad and yet again not a look-in for our outstanding player.

I am aware that Spain do boast a very strong midfield with the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas and Silva to name a few, but surely Mikel deserves a call up or at least a friendly game so he can try and stake a claim in the squad. He is a wonderful team player, with massive ability and I truly believe his national squad would benefit with his inclusion.

I have never been one for getting un-capped players to change their nationality in order to gain International football, but surely on this occasion what is Spain's loss would be England's gain. A midfield player who can play in anywhere from Right, Left or Centre.

Who would you rather have on England's left hand side. Downing? Joe Cole? Or our very own Mikel Arteta? Alas this will not happen and Mikel will probably end his career without having represented his country.

A massive loss in my eyes...
Dave Southon, Brighton     Posted 11/05/2010 at 12:51:33

back Return to the Mail Bag

Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Dick Anderson
1   Posted 11/05/2010 at 14:23:18

Report abuse

Phil Jagielka was overlooked by Capello too. He'd rather pick Jamie Carragher. Carragher refuses to play friendlies or qualifiers but soon makes himself available for the World Cup squad. Disgraceful. Plus Carragher has been shit this season.

Jags like many Everton players (Arteta, Neville) is overlooked because he doesn't play for a fashionable club.
Peter Moore
2   Posted 11/05/2010 at 14:28:47

Report abuse

Shouldn't be too surprised really but I thought Fabregas, Xavi & Iniesta were all injured?
David Chait
3   Posted 11/05/2010 at 14:51:04

Report abuse

Feel both of them have been overlooked firstly because they don't play for a rich club... but this fact was not helped by our ending league position and that both were injured for so long....

You won't find me one Evertonian that would take Upson, Carra or Dawson over Jags, he consistently outperforms all of those guys... Feel really bad for him...

Well, next year, lads... key players fit.. rested... let's take the league by storm!
Dick Anderson
4   Posted 11/05/2010 at 14:57:41

Report abuse

I'm an Evertonian and I'd take Dawson over Jagielka.

Sorry but Dawson is class. King and Dawson are the best central defenders in Europe.

Jags is very good and I'd pick him over Carragher, Ferdinand (too injury prone) and Upson.

But I would pick Dawson over Jagielka I'm afraid.
Chris Ashton
5   Posted 11/05/2010 at 14:54:39

Report abuse

I may be a minority here but maybe Spain are good enough without Mikel? They are the European Champions and won it with a team that will be very similar to the team that will start the World Cup.

I disagree about us being a team that is seen as unfashionable enough not to have players called up, Arteta has never been called up! If Arteta ranked alongside Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas then the argument would stand. I do think though that he may not be good enough for the current Spain team, hence the lack of a call up.
Elgin Joshua
6   Posted 11/05/2010 at 15:02:02

Report abuse

Sorry guys but I agree too. Jag has been edgy this season though no fault of his having not had the necessary match practice. I say this World Cup was too soon for him.

Totally agree on Carragher. Disgraceful!! He just graced into the squad from nowhere. I'd be embarress to face the lads if I were him.
Kevy Quinn
7   Posted 11/05/2010 at 15:15:28

Report abuse

I wonder if Mikel has any grandparents from Ireland. I'll have to phone Jackie Charlton and see if he can find out.
John Keating
8   Posted 11/05/2010 at 15:20:57

Report abuse

In one way, I'm disappointed some players haven't been picked for World Cup squads; however, in some ways I'm glad.

After this season, the players — especially those having long injuries — will be able to have a long rest followed by a full pre-season and hopefully be fully fit to start off next season at full speed.

No excuses, no European games, they need to be fully committed to start off completely the opposite of the start of last season.

Dick Anderson
9   Posted 11/05/2010 at 15:43:47

Report abuse

John Keating

You make some good points but, on the other hand, Arteta may be thinking that he'll need to join a 'bigger' club to get that Spain call up.

Everton have no European football next season either. So there's even less chance of Arteta getting noticed.

Will Arteta's desire to play for Spain eventually lead him to join a bigger club? Could we blame him if he did?
Jimmy Hacking
10   Posted 11/05/2010 at 15:46:29

Report abuse

Arteta isn't good enough to play for Spain, or he would be playing for Spain.

It's embarrassing when people repeat the same tripe over and over about certain players being snubbed at international level. There is no conspiracy within the Spanish football association; successive Spanish managers don't believe the player (who couldn't get a game at Real Sociedad) can cut it.

Do you really believe that Vicente del Bosque is thinking, "Hmm, I like Arteta but I refuse to select him since he plays for Everton." Wake up! He doesn't give a shite about us, or any other club. He wants to win the World Cup.

End of.
Franny Porter
11   Posted 11/05/2010 at 16:01:21

Report abuse

Personally, I wouldn't want to see Mikel anywhere near the England squad and mixing with that gang of mercenary twats.

I wouldn't want him to have his head turned by one of those greedy fuckers.

Ashley Cole, Steven Gerrard, John Terry, Gareth Barry... need I go on?
Ciarán McGlone
12   Posted 11/05/2010 at 16:15:49

Report abuse

So who would you take out of the Spainish midfield for Mikel?

And Jags has been hot and very cold since his return. No surprise he didn't get the nod.
Dave Wilson
13   Posted 11/05/2010 at 16:19:25

Report abuse

I must have missed the hot bits.
Dick Anderson
14   Posted 11/05/2010 at 15:54:03

Report abuse

Jimmy Hacking

Open your eyes.

Players who play for big clubs have a huge advantage in getting International recognition.

Kieran Richardson played 8 times for England while he was a Man Utd substitute. And he hasn't played for England since he became a regular for Sunderland.

Ben Foster is Man Utd's 3rd choice keeper but somehow he's earned 4 England caps.

Chris Kirkland was a rubbish reserve keeper at Liverpool but he was a regular face in the England squad. Then he signed for Wigan played regular football and actually proved himself a decent keeper but oddly he's never been picked by England since.

Owen Hargreaves plays just minutes for Man Utd this season and was apparently close to making the squad.

Scott Carson only played 9 times for Liverpool but he somehow got 3 International caps. He now plays regulary for West Brom. But despite proving himself never gets a look in at England anymore.

Wes Brown is rubbish and somehow he has 22 England Caps while Gary Cahill is superb but has no International Caps. I bet you Cahill will eventually join a big club and within half a dozen games he'll be playing for England.

Phil Neville earned 59 England Caps. How many of those were earned while he has been at Everton? 2? 3? But you could argue he's improved as a player while at Everton.

Sorry Jimmy but the sad fact is that players who play for big clubs find themselves gaining International recognition easier.

I'll make a bet with you. I bet if Arteta joined Liverpool or Arsenal he would only have to play half a dozen games before Spain came calling.

I can't prove it but I bet it would happen.
Ciarán McGlone
15   Posted 11/05/2010 at 17:00:24

Report abuse

"Players who play for big clubs have a huge advantage in getting International recognition."
-----------------

You reckon that's got anything to do with them usually being better players?

Any coach that picks a team based on fashion is not doing their job properly. No offence, but this conspiracy thing is crap.
Dave Southon
16   Posted 11/05/2010 at 17:05:27

Report abuse

I have no doubt there is no conspiracy, my point is that while other Nations try out fringe players in friendlies, Spain have decided against it.

Please do not tell me that Mikel Arteta does not deserve at least one opportunity at national level to show what he can do?

Personally I would take him over Javier Martinez, but also judging by the provisional 30-man squad, they look a little light in midfield department. Picking only 8 midfielders but 10 strikers...
Iain Love
17   Posted 11/05/2010 at 17:04:32

Report abuse

Actually, by that recogning we shouldn't have any internationals in our side then????

What I would say is Spain have better players than Arteta in that position, although England don't. Jags at present is behind quite a few better players, certainly on current form. Baines is the second-best English left back and goes as cover only.

I'm looking forward to the World Cup and hope:
1/ Everton players don't get injured;
2/Moyes picks up a bargain player or two while he's out there;
3/ Gerrard gets sent off for diving / cheating; etc, etc...
and
4/ England do well.

Rob Murphy
18   Posted 11/05/2010 at 17:35:49

Report abuse

I'm just perplexed how no country that qualified for the World Cup tried to get Seamus Coleman to play for them. Have they not being paying attention to this website over the past 6 months???
Mike Dillon
19   Posted 11/05/2010 at 17:02:21

Report abuse

To me, it seems if an Everton player DOES get any international recognition, he's then poached by a "bigger club".

Lescott? Rooney?

How many of us will be sweating on Pienaar's future if he has a stormer in South Africa?

How much would we begrudge Donovan's potential price tag inflating if he does the same?

I'd rather we didn't have any representation at all, to be perfectly honest. I like international football, but not when it screws us over.

Of course, the flipside to this is someone like Arteta becoming disillusioned and moving clubs to play internationally.
James Stewart
20   Posted 11/05/2010 at 17:40:06

Report abuse

Well in my view, Capello is a hypocrite. It sounds good saying you pick players on form but he clearly doesn't.

I don't think Jagielka deserves to be picked as a matter of fact but certain players do who haven't been selected. Carragher is also a joke. The joke is on England though as he is well past his sell-by date.

I don't really care as I want England to go out as soon as possible!

Arteta should be in the Squad. It's a strange squad with an uneven balance. Do they really need that many goalkeepers and strikers?!

Dennis Stevens
21   Posted 11/05/2010 at 17:42:31

Report abuse

I think players at the top clubs tend to look better players as they're generally in a better team - that may be a factor in some less than stunning players getting selected.
Charlie Percival
22   Posted 11/05/2010 at 17:55:49

Report abuse

Jimmy Hacking (10). Arteta isnt good enough to play for Spain otherwise he would have been selected. Do you think this is always the case?

Emile Heskey is definitely good enough to play for England isn't he... that's why he gets his call up.
Charlie Percival
23   Posted 11/05/2010 at 18:00:35

Report abuse

By the way... can we PLEASE sign Stephen Ireland!
Aidy Dews
24   Posted 11/05/2010 at 18:15:56

Report abuse

Dick, Dawson is good and this season as looked like our Jags of last season before his injury but for me Jags is and will be better once he gets going next season, he'll soon be back to his old best.

I agree about King, he is good and would be brilliant if he could play regularly all season instead of fits and starts but I'm glad in a way that Jags hasn't been included, same goes for Arteta because they will go and have a nice long rest to recharge the batteries and come back a lot fitter and stronger and kick on even more next season, I believe.

James Stewart
25   Posted 11/05/2010 at 18:31:11

Report abuse

Can we please not sign Stephen Ireland!

He is a first class idiot
Gaute Lie
26   Posted 11/05/2010 at 18:19:45

Report abuse

I'm afraid Spain has a surplus of excellence when it comes to players in midfield. I don't know of any other country with so many high-class midfield players.

Steven Gerrard is the only one of the English matching up to Spaniards.

So I believe Mikel Arteta would get a place in all other nations midfield line. But not Spain. And the reason is clear. He's not good enough for a place, considering his rivals.

But he's good enough for Everton, and I'm sort of glad he's not to play. He'll come back rested, and not out-of -play with a broken foot, torn ...

So I'm happy with Arteta staying out of the WC. Though I'm sure he would like to be in it.

Jagielka? Not good enogh this year. Couldn't expect him to get back in to super shape so fast, anyway. I would not pick him out for the WC if I was Cappello.
So I'm glad he'll also be more fit when it comes to pre-season.
Kevy Quinn
27   Posted 11/05/2010 at 18:24:05

Report abuse

Arteta would walk into any midfield in the Premier League that's good enough to be in the Spain squad. In my eyes, it's a joke he has never got Spanish cap.

I would not begrudge him if he left to try and get into the Spain team. It would break my heart if he left but he's been a credit to himself and to the club since he's been here. If he stays injury free, he can get in the Euro 2012 squad while with the Blues!
Anthony Millington
28   Posted 11/05/2010 at 18:56:30

Report abuse

He's better than that trollope Sergio Busquets! Just because he plays for Barcelona, it means he's better apparently?
Pete Sullivan
29   Posted 11/05/2010 at 18:58:48

Report abuse

Dick : Think you lost all credibility to any of your points when you declared Dawson and King as the best central defenders in Europe. Have you seen any Inter games whatsoever with Samuel and Lucio playing? Jeez
Ben Jones
30   Posted 11/05/2010 at 18:55:42

Report abuse

Dick Anderson in post 4

Dawson and King the best defenders in Europe? Cmooooooon

King has the ability of one of the best but is too injury prone, and Dawson has one good season and is suddenly the best defender in Europe?

I would have picked Jagielka over Dawson and at least Carragher. Carragher's undoubtedly cover for right back, Jagielka looks better there.

With Arteta, most of the midfielders are better than him, but one guy I noticed, Javi Martinez was picked. Obviously I don't know much about him and know he's been linked with big clubs in the past, but is he better than Arteta? Does anybody know much about him?
Ben Jones
31   Posted 11/05/2010 at 19:02:53

Report abuse

Haha Pete, just beat me to my point!
Charles King
32   Posted 11/05/2010 at 19:09:36

Report abuse

The "preferred club" supplier of international players is usually justified on "big match" experience, Champions League etc. Dick Anderson (post 14) nails it, illustrating what happens to internationals who leave these clubs and never get a game after.

Carragher is perhaps the biggest example, I suspect he wouldn't get in the first team of half the Premier League teams but is rapidly becoming a hero to me for his fundamental part in the demise of LFC, I believe he's now earned the moniker "Agent Carragher" with his own goals, hapless penalties and general hopelessness.

In terms of England, hopefully he plays and gets England sunk quickly so as I can enjoy some skilled football from the proper footballing nations.

Tom Bowers
33   Posted 11/05/2010 at 19:21:38

Report abuse

It's kinda sad that the respective international managers of England and Spain are so short-sighted that they are making bad selections. Firstly, how the Spain manager cannot pick Arteta is beyond me when he would sooner pick a bunch of injured players first and also that former redshite Alonso who isn't fit to lick Mikel's boots. Perhaps the Spanish waiter put his 10 cents worth in.

Then Capello puts in Upson and Carragher ahead of Jags — a total no-brainer, especially when Carragher snubbed his nose up at England already. There is no justice and we only have to look back at the Howard Kendall injustice many years ago to know all about that...

Sadly England will flounder anyway so better Jags & Mikel stay away and stay fit for next season. Bainesy won't get much of a look-in now that Cole is fit again.

Jeremy Benson
34   Posted 11/05/2010 at 19:44:59

Report abuse

I'm gutted that Mikel hasn't been picked in the world cup squad. For England....

I believe he qualifies now under residency laws and the length of time he has been in england? He never gets picked for spain - he should switch and pull on the 3 lions. He'd be a god...

Paul Gladwell
35   Posted 11/05/2010 at 19:43:21

Report abuse

James, Steven Ireland is a first class idiot but a very good player and I would have him straight away.

Most players are first class idiots, none more so than the one we are begging to stay when we all know what`s going to happen, yet again he preaches God today when asked about his Everton future, the same man who drink drives and kicks fuck out of his wife...

Apart from the odd Cahill, take footy players like a pinch of salt.

James Stewart
36   Posted 11/05/2010 at 19:51:42

Report abuse

I appreciate your comments, Paul; yes and you are right. The majority of footballers are idiots. I don't think Ireland would at all fit in with Moyes's view on work ethic and commitment.

Pienaar is indeed a prat, there is no two ways about it. I am in the minority who doesn't care if he goes though, to be honest.

I think Cahill coming out and saying what he has said deserves to be praised. A gentleman off the field even if he isn't on it! I would prefer Everton to not sign players like Ireland. That's just my view.

Paul Gladwell
37   Posted 11/05/2010 at 19:57:01

Report abuse

Fair shout, James, I must admit the stupid cars and the WAG shite he carries are off-putting but I`m sure Moyes would have something to say about that if he wanted him.
As for Cahill, let's hope his new contract signing will have some form of influence with some of the other players, none more so than his bezzie chum Arteta.
Joe McMahon
38   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:00:05

Report abuse

Paranoid to say the least. Jaq's distribution is not good enough & Arteta isn't good enough for Spain. As good as Arteta is, he needs to deliver against the best Premier League sides first.

Guys, Baines has been selected initially, so it's not about us being unfashionable, just relax.

Brendan O'Doherty
39   Posted 11/05/2010 at 19:54:22

Report abuse

Arteta for England? Please God no.

Steven (2 grannies) Ireland is a player who has turned his back on his country because he thinks he might get a bit of stick from the other players should he come back. Not the sort of player fit to wear an Everton shirt.
Pete Gunby
40   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:03:31

Report abuse

Capello should've picked Hibbert. Perfect scapegoat if we bottle it...
Ciarán McGlone
41   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:09:02

Report abuse

Stephen Ireland,

I can just see it now...The Gwladys Street decide to take the piss out of his hair plugs, his dead granny or his ability to turn a Audi R8 into a barbie accessory.... and he has a breakdown in the middle of the pitch.

No thanks, good footballer or not — the man's grade A gobshite.
Alex Marsh Nikas
42   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:11:17

Report abuse

Busquets has scored over 20 times this season, I have no problem with Arteta not being picked for the Spanish squad based on the fact that Spain have an incredibly deep selection of world class midfielders to choose from. That being said, I really hope one day he will get his well-deserved cap/s for his native country.

As for Jags, it is ludicrous that Upson, Carragher or Ferdinand get chosen over him. That being said, let's hope none of our boys get injured during in South Africa! COYB
Tom Bowers
43   Posted 11/05/2010 at 19:44:11

Report abuse

Sorry guys but some of you are not getting the point. Jags is as good as Carragher, if not better, and certainly Carragher's days are numbered — hence Liverpool's poor season.

Okay, Jags has come back after being out for a while but is still a great player. How many others are in the squad who have been out or very inconsistent at club level in recent months? Walcott, Lennon, Wright-Phillips and Heskey. Capello will have no excuses when we don't make the quarter finals with this bunch.

James Stewart
44   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:23:55

Report abuse

Jagielka is simply not playing well enough to be called up. Our most solid and accomplished pairing at CB this season was Neill and Heitinga. There was no hoofball and no heart-in-mouth moments we have had since. I think it was a mistake to break that partnership up, personally. Well, certainly the timing of it anyway. Hibbert is not actually a bad shout! I'm being serious — he has been in excellent form. And it's not like there is much competition!
James Stewart
45   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:23:55

Report abuse

Jagielka is simply not playing well enough to be called up. Our most solid and accomplished pairing at CB this season was Neill and Heitinga. There was no hoofball and no heart in mouth moments we have had since. I think it was a mistake to break that partnership up personally. Well certainly the timing of it anyway. Hibbert is not actually a bad shout! I'm being serious he has been in excellent form. And its not like there is much competition!
Charlie Percival
46   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:32:15

Report abuse

Seamus Coleman is awesome! Anyone else watching the game?!!
Thor Sørensen
47   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:35:40

Report abuse

Carragher in the squad? Upson picked ahead of Cahill? Heskey picked ahead of Zamora? That's a complete joke!

Capello got one thing right, though. Baines and Warnock is in, Lescott isn't.
James Stewart
48   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:37:14

Report abuse

Yes, got it on here as well.
Dave Wilson
49   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:14:23

Report abuse

The Jag was shocking for the first part of last season, if he wasn't giving goalscoring opportunities away, he was actually putting the ball in for the opponents. He went through a purple patch for a dozen or so games where he defended magnificently, but even then he was hell bent on finding out how far he could kick it.

He was desperately unlucky with his injury, but he has come back and he`s giving away goals — or actually scoring them — and you guys think he should go to the World Cup ?

Not sure if it was his fuck up when given his chance for England or the list of fuck ups as long as your arm that have cost Everton so many goals in the past couple of seasons that convinced Capello to leave him at home.

Smell the coffee guys, Jagielka has a lampost, a lighthouse, two crocks and Jamie fucken Carragher as competition and he STILL cant get in the squad.

I hate to tell you this, but Bobby Moore he ain't.

Guy Hastings
50   Posted 11/05/2010 at 20:35:51

Report abuse

No point in going - they'll all be sneaking through the back door of RAF Manston after exiting in the first knock-out round. Tweak your hamstring now, Baines, and save your reputation!
Brian Waring
51   Posted 11/05/2010 at 21:41:28

Report abuse

It's simple, Arteta's not in the Spain squad because they don't need him.
Anthony Millington
52   Posted 11/05/2010 at 22:11:07

Report abuse

Joe, you say Arteta isn't good enough for Spain. As good as Arteta is, he needs to deliver against the best Premier League sides first.

Well... let me cast my mind back to when Arteta came back into the team: Chelsea win... Man United win... Man City win... Arteta injured for 3 games ...3 draws. How many games have we lost in the league since he's been back in the side? Just Tottenham?

He's got so much more to offer than Martinez and Busquets, its such a shame that he doesn't get chosen for Spain because he only plays for Everton. I've no doubt if he played for one of the top La Liga clubs or even Liverpool, he'd walk into the squad.

Jamie Sweet
53   Posted 11/05/2010 at 23:03:53

Report abuse

The fewer Everton players playing in the World Cup, the better, I say. Less likely to pick up and injury and more likely to start the new season as fresh as a daisy — ready to win something!
John McLoughlin
54   Posted 11/05/2010 at 23:28:59

Report abuse

The biggest problem for Jagielka at international level is his passing is rubbish. Against Spain he was our best player for the 1st 20 minutes then gave 1 crazy pass that lead straight to a goal.

And with his lack of comfort on the ball he's always likely at the very top level of international football to be punished. That coupled with his injury means he isn't going to the WC. Dawson has been fantastic all season for Spurs and deserves inclusion in the squad.

As for Arteta, I agree with the fella a few posts up — there is no bias in the Spanish squad there manager picks who he believes are the best players. He'd be crazy not to.

David Thomas
55   Posted 11/05/2010 at 23:25:18

Report abuse

Dave,

"the list of fuck ups as long as your arm that have cost Everton so many goals"

After making a statement like that please could you give us some idea of this extensive list?

Ben Jones
56   Posted 12/05/2010 at 00:38:16

Report abuse

Oh God, the usual statements from Dave Wilson

Only playing well for half the first season? He wasn't player of the season for playing well for one half!!! Otherwise Fellaini or Arteta would have had it this season!

Granted he hasn't been as consistent this season, he had 2 or 3 games where he was terrible, but also games where he has been really good. He still merits an inclusion over Carragher because basically he's been shit all season. Dawson maybe not, though Jags is the better player, Dawson's form this season has merited his spot.

All I'm saying is if he stays injury free next season, we will have the same CONSISTENT Jagielka of last season. Though height would be an issue, him and Heitinga in centre defence would be awesome next season.
Jason Lam
57   Posted 12/05/2010 at 04:55:38

Report abuse

The theory behind picking players from the 'top' teams is the synergy already developed from club level. Look at the German teams with half the players from Bayern Munich, the Italy teams made up of Juve players, the old USSR team basically Dynamo Kiev. You couldn't train teamwork and understanding with players from 20 different clubs in 1 month's worth of practice together over a football season. Yes Brazil has players all over Europe but they're Brazilian.
Norman Merrill
58   Posted 12/05/2010 at 07:52:19

Report abuse

The omission of both Arteta and Jags from the world cup squads does not really surprise me.

In Arteta's case he is obviously not rated in Spain, as Del Bosc is the second manager to ignore the very talented Blue. In Jagielka's case, I think it's a little too soon, he is still trying to get back his fitness and form from last season, and I think a good rest will benefit him for the coming season.

Being very Everton-minded, I just hope it's to our benefit, and that, with maybe the odd addition to the squad, we really have a good go for silverware next season.

Matthew Mackey
59   Posted 12/05/2010 at 08:34:58

Report abuse

I can understand Jags not been selected on this occasion as he still needs more games since coming back from injury to get right back to his very best. He's been good since returning, but not brilliant.

As for Mikel, I feel desperately, desperately sorry for the guy. Such a talent, such a team player and such a good all round attitude to the game and the club.

It's unfortunate, but fact that the powers that be, whether they be Spanish or English just don't see Everton as a fashionable, glamorous club and in not doing so, they don't give some of the gems we have a look in.
I can't express just how disappointed I feel for Mikel this morning and hope that a decision made by someone outside the club will not effect his feelings towards this club in the long term.
Dave Wilson
60   Posted 12/05/2010 at 08:44:01

Report abuse

Oh Dear more drivel from Ben Jones.

You really need to understand that some of us actually see all of the Everton games and actually know what we are talking about. Everton and Jakielka had a nightmare start to the seaon last year, Jagielka was all over the place and I clearly remember coming out of the Brittania after a particularly bad performance by Jagielka and many Evertonians were wondering if he was even Prem class.

When you have so many injuries and a everyone has a bad start, your player of the season is only ever going to have to be good for half or less of the season — just look at this season.

Try to engage your brain, and take issue with the points and not the individual, certainly not this individual, he knows too much for you.

When you say we`ll have the same Jags back next season, I sincerly hope you are wrong — again. If we are going to have to endure his hoofball and his fuck ups, I want much more than that.

Apparently Capello does too.

Alan Clarke
61   Posted 12/05/2010 at 09:20:24

Report abuse

Jagielka did not deserve to be picked on his current form. The only reason he deserves to be picked is on last season's form. Looking at the squad there's a few players who have been picked on previous form rather than current form so I do feel sorry for Jags.

Why does everyone panic when one of our players doesn't get picked for their national side? The players that leave Everton are the ones who DO get picked, namely Lescott and Rooney. I'd be far more worried about Arteta leaving if he played for Spain this World Cup.
John Nelson
62   Posted 12/05/2010 at 09:33:26

Report abuse

Dave Wilson

I actually go to all of the home games and manage to watch most of the away games, in which I must be watching completely different fucking games to you as I don't regularly see Jags fucking up, giving goals away and twatting the ball to no-one for a laugh all of the time. Obviously you have got some sort of vendetta against him as I can see no other reason why you slate him so much.

Yes, he has been a bit iffy since he has come back from injury, but that's hardly his fault is it after having a career-threatening injury which has sidelined him for 12 months and as soon as not even half fit gets put straight back into the team? The man is class, he will be fully fit and back to his best next season.

Also regarding his non-inclusion in the England squad: I agree on the above stated that he has been injured most of the season and is still making strides to getting back to what he was, plus Dawson having a cracking season fully warrants his inclusion (but Dick Anderson suggesting he is better than Jags is way off the mark). However, I believe Capello (if thinking with this logic) has contradicted himself completely by including the yard dog that is Carragher as I cannot see for the life of me why he has been included.

As for Arteta: again if he were have played the full season and to have been consistent with his form as he has been since he came back, then I believe he definately would have had a few call ups before the squad was picked and it would have went from there. It's certainly no shame on his behalf being overlooked as I believe Spain to have the most unbelievable midfield in the world I have ever seen, however saying this (and repeating what I said above) he definitely would not have looked out of place amongst them, and if he was to be any other nationality he would walk straight into the team.

Anyway, Bainesy has been picked ahead of the Elephant Man so I'm happy with that. And in retrospect of all the above mentioned, I can't wait for the World Cup!

Ben Jones
63   Posted 12/05/2010 at 09:56:27

Report abuse

I do actually watch all the games Dave. He was poor I think because he was playing centre midfield, which is clearly not his position. At centre half he was our most consisitent player and rightly named player of the season.

What about this season? Pienaar and Baines? Oh wait, two players who were quite consistent ALL season. Personally, I would given it to Baines, but Pienaar perhaps had more outstanding performances. Both of them did not have many bad games this season.

To say Jags is responsible for the hoofball. I mean he's a defender!! What do you expect? His job is to make sure the team concedes no goal, and when he's in the team, we acheive that more often that not with anybody else there. I'd agree he does do a lot of hoofball and is frustrating at times, but I'd also argue that midfielders are not there for him to pass to.

And I engage with all the points I disagree with Dave, most of them up there are spot on, it just happens to be your post that I disagree with.
Dave Wilson
64   Posted 12/05/2010 at 09:59:29

Report abuse

Johnny

If you don't see Jagielka aimlessly punting it on a regular basis or haven't seen a number of goals we`ve conceded in the past couple of seasons that are a direct result of one of his fuck-ups then we are indeed watching different games.

I don't have a vendetta against Jagielka, I think he`s a good defender on his day, but when I am not blind to his shortcomings and I won't overlook his fuck-ups.

I will never adopt the sheep-like mentality that seems so prevalent at the moment. The sheep want to slaughter some of our players, even going as to the extremes of MAKING EXCUSES when they play well, whilst overlooking the shortcoming of the blue-eyed boys, to the point of pretending their fuck-ups didn't happen.

Prefer a bit of accuracy and balance meself.
Dave Wilson
65   Posted 12/05/2010 at 10:23:33

Report abuse

Ben Jones

Jagielka played midfield last season did he? Who against?

Pienaar missed over a quarter of the season, he played badly in several games too. That is my point, very few players of the season need to play well for the entire season as you claim, Jagielka proved that beyond doubt. That was my point.

I don't care if you disagree with my post, in fact in your case I`d prefer it, but if you want to keep to the point, you need to refrain from opening your original post in the manner you did.

If anything I said wasn't factual, feel very free to point it out.
James Stewart
66   Posted 12/05/2010 at 10:39:10

Report abuse

One of the main problems we had at CB this season has been continuity or the lack of it.

Neill and Heitinga was the best partnership in my opinion. No hoofball at all and quite solid. I think it was a mistake to break it up. Well, the timing of doing it anyway...

Heitinga is a top quality CB. None of our other CB's are in his class. Jagielka should be able to do a decent job there though.

Tony J Williams
67   Posted 12/05/2010 at 11:34:15

Report abuse

James, yes Neill was a good passer of the ball and kept it on the deck, it's just a pity that he had the turning arc of a battlecrusier, and sometimes took as long.
Danny Burke
68   Posted 12/05/2010 at 11:58:18

Report abuse

All this talk of Mikel not being good enough in my opinion is wrong. He is easily as good as Fabregas, we all know better than Alonso, he is also better than Busquets. (By the way post 42, he got nothing like 20 goals, he in fact has 1, and none in the league. Are you thinking of Pedro?).

Maybe Mikky wont get in the starting line up past Xavi and Iniesta but how he can't at least be in the squad is crazy.

As for Jags, just not had enough time to build up form after a horrible injury. This World Cup has come too soon and Dawson and King have earned their place with some outstanding games. If we are going to critcise Capello for picking Carragher based on form then sadly he can't pick Jags who at 100% I rate as better than Upson, Dawson, and Carragher.

Ciarán McGlone
69   Posted 12/05/2010 at 12:50:31

Report abuse

"After making a statement like that please could you give us some idea of this extensive list? "

------

Jesus, not another question from captain mischief.

Maybe you should buy the big book of obvious things about everton... Jags had a howling start to 2008-09...

I guess you'll want times, dates, milliseconds, and full reports... And when you eventually get them you'll stumble about like a drunk..
David Thomas
70   Posted 12/05/2010 at 13:16:41

Report abuse

Ciaran,

Ha ha ha.

So let me get this right: someone states about a player that "the list of fuck-ups as long as your arm that have cost Everton so many goals" and because I don't agree that Jagielka has been at fault for a LONG list of fuck-ups and have asked someone to substantiate this statement with his long list, then in your eyes that is causing mischief?
James Stewart
71   Posted 12/05/2010 at 13:35:07

Report abuse

Tony I wasn't saying Neill was without fault. Simply an observation that since that partnership was broke up our defense has been highly leaky. Partly due to no consistent pairing and partly due to Distin, Jagielka or whoever else not being up to scratch.
James Stewart
72   Posted 12/05/2010 at 13:39:17

Report abuse

And while we are on the topic of Jagielka: He is a solid committed player and a good soldier of EFC. Let's not get carried away with all this England talk though. He is a good Premier League defender – nothing more.

Heitinga has everything Jagielka does but with the added ability of superb passing and vision. The difference in class between those two is vast.

John Daley
73   Posted 12/05/2010 at 13:25:56

Report abuse

Dave Wilson,

You don't have a vendetta against Jagielka? In that case can you stop banging on about how shite you think he is every 5 minutes? We get the fact you think he's over-rated, and the hoofball causing anti-christ... because you constantly point this out in every bloody post.

James Stewart,

Hibbert for England? I think Capello's just waiting for him to add goals to his game! Oh, and Stephen Ireland may be a total tit and look like a camp cannibal from the Hills Have Eyes but I think he'd actually be a decent signing for us.
Ciarán McGlone
74   Posted 12/05/2010 at 13:44:26

Report abuse

Either that or you have a very blinkered analysis of our players...

Are you honestly saying you've never seen Jags pass the ball out of defence straight to Steven Gerard?

Or that you've never seen him duck under a ball that went into the net against Stoke?

Or that you've never seen him turn his back on an opposing striker?

If that's the case, then you're not mischievious, you've merely got an acute case of toffee blindness.
Dave Wilson
75   Posted 12/05/2010 at 13:46:36

Report abuse

David Thomas

Just so nobody can accuse you of having no opinion of your own or being somebody who contribues nothing, but sits in wait until he thinks he can trip somebody else up.



I`ll give you your chance to show your hand.

You either

A) dont know the answer and need me to educate you.

B) Dont believe me and think you have me, in which case I will produce a list

C) want to go and do some research and pretend you were at the games - as usual

Dave Wilson
76   Posted 12/05/2010 at 13:56:02

Report abuse

Ciarán

You fucked up my rope adope man
Ciarán McGlone
77   Posted 12/05/2010 at 14:04:58

Report abuse

Haha... no point pissing about, being the eternal optimist, Dave!
David Thomas
78   Posted 12/05/2010 at 13:57:58

Report abuse

Dave,

I am actually not trying to trip anyone up, and i agree jagielka did not start last season very well, the whole team was below par. In my opinion the season started to get better after the West Ham game away.

If you are specifically talking about mistakes that Jagielka made, the one that stands out is obviously Villa at home last season, but I personally can't think of an extensive list that you can attribute solely to Jagielka.

I am not sure what your part C is about, or is that you just think that because I don't agree with your opinion on certain players that I was not at the game?
Daniel Hutchinson
79   Posted 12/05/2010 at 14:13:39

Report abuse

Little Phil Jagielka song from our Evertonian Comedy Dave on Radio 1 this morning:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s9x2j/The_Chris_Moyles_Show_Wednesday_With_Matt_Smith_In_The_Studio/

2 hours ten mins in (start of conversation lead up to short song)

Quite funny and very true!

Dave Wilson
80   Posted 12/05/2010 at 14:09:01

Report abuse

So what's it to be

A) You don't know of these cock-ups?

B) You don't believe he made these cock-ups?

C) Ciaran is right plus you don't actually know what you are talking about.
Tim Luke
81   Posted 12/05/2010 at 14:21:44

Report abuse

Why would Capello want to take Carragher to the World Cup and leave out the likes of Phil Neville and Phil Jaglieka is beyond me. Granted, Neville is going for knee surgery, but I'm pretty sure his decision to do so only happened after getting news from the England camp that his services would not be required in South Africa. But Carragher over Jaglieka??

Ok, perhaps, I have a naturally strong Blue bias and an equally strong Red loathing, but come on... Carragher has had an awful season. He's a liability in the box, often giving away penalties and free-kicks outside the box. His tackling is suspect, he lacks any speed, and only knows hoofball.

Ok, our Jags is also guilty of the last trait, but for the rest, he's miles ahead of Carragher. So why Capello, WHY?

David Thomas
82   Posted 12/05/2010 at 14:18:35

Report abuse

Dave,

I think it is pretty obvious that in my opinion Jagielka has his faults but on the whole he is a good defender and an asset to our team.

Whereas I am presuming from your comments that you think Jagielka has solely been at fault for a very long list of goals we have conceded.

So if you were able to provide this long list that he is solely responsible for then I would be able to respond and tell you whether I believe you that he was solely responsible for each particular incident.
Anthony Millington
83   Posted 12/05/2010 at 14:55:34

Report abuse

What annoys me is that Green and Upson (very average in my opinion) have been at fault for a number of goals this season (especially Upson) and yet they walk into the squad when players who have been on top form and are better players than those two don't get a look in!

Paul Robinson has been brilliant this season, finished in the top 10 with 13 clean sheets but Capello picks Green who has just finished 17th? And Jagielka is better than Upson, Dawson and probably Carragher now, but he doesn't get in?OK, I understand Jags has just come back from a serious injury, but Ledley King... Jags can play more games than him and will be ready when called upon and not have to rest a dodgy knee!

Another point on Carragher, he turned his back on England when he was in his prime and now he's gone and had the worst season in God knows how long, making numerous errors, and Capello welcomes him back with open arms... pathetic! We don't want him, his legs have gone!

Anthony Millington
84   Posted 12/05/2010 at 15:04:41

Report abuse

And don't get me started on Heskey...
Alan Clarke
85   Posted 12/05/2010 at 15:01:26

Report abuse

I think Dave Wilson, you're being a little over critical of Jags just to prove your point. He has had some fuck-ups (that awful back pass against Villa comes to mind) but there have been some unbelievable moments from him like the goal-line clearance against West Brom. The stability Jags brings to the team should not be underestimated.

I think the vast majority of Evertonians would put Jagielka's name down first when naming our best defence. And it was Jags who Pat Nevin was referring to when answering if City had bought the Premier League's best defender and he said they've not even bought Everton's best defender.
Dave Wilson
86   Posted 12/05/2010 at 14:31:14

Report abuse

Q: Name me one single time when a goal we have conceded can be directly attributed to a Jags cock-up?
A: Well, there was that own goal against Wigan. If that was TH he would have been hung from the Top Balcony.

Q: Ok, apart from the own goal against Wigan, name me a time when Jags has cost us a goal?
A: What about at the Brittania stadium, when Howard came to collect and Jags headed it over him.

Q: Yes, apart from the own-goals against Stoke and Wigan, can you tell me when the Jag has been at fault?

A: there was the time when Robinho skipped past him stopped on the by line, Jags got back but still lets him shoot from a ridculous angle to score.

Q: Ok, ok... Apart from then and the two own goals, when did Jags ever let us down?
A: What about at St Andrews when Birmingham scored as a direct result of the Jag's fuckaroundary on the edge of our box, that cost us two points.

Q: The St Andrews thing doesn't count, he`s been injured you know. Could you name a clanger he made when was on the top of his game?
A: Didn't he play a pass straight into the path of Ashley Young a GP last year, after we`d sweated blood to get back into the game? Imagine that was Phil Neville? Then there was the one against Pompey...

Q: OK, OK, OK... APART from the own-goal against Wigan, the own-goal against Stoke, the fuckaroundary at Birmingham, the cock-up against Pompey AND the back pass at home to Villa, AND allowing the Brazilian to score from the by line — when has Jagielka not been solid as a rock?
A: Of course he did head into his own net at the death at Villa this season, costing us another two points and ending any hope of European footy next season.

Q: Wasn't that all Hibbo's fault?

Danny Jones
87   Posted 12/05/2010 at 15:13:29

Report abuse

Well, it might turn out ok for Jags all along. The Gaurdian seem to be suggesting that Terry has broken his foot (although not confirmed yet, it's running on their info bar).
Ciarán McGlone
88   Posted 12/05/2010 at 15:48:50

Report abuse

"Why would Capello want to take Carragher to the World Cup and leave out the likes of Phil Neville "

------------------

Right, now this is getting ridiculous... I think Carragher's an overated bodyguard for Reina... but come on, Phil Neville? Be serious!
David Thomas
89   Posted 12/05/2010 at 15:29:26

Report abuse

Dave,

As I previously stated he made a howler against Aston Villa last season, but I think instances like Villa away this season when the ball skimmed off the top of his head when he was up against a man who is considerably taller than him... and the Stoke game when Howard came out doing his star jump impression are in my opinion just being very over critical of Jagielka.

I think we will have to agree to disagree, I would have Phil Jagielka as one of the first names on my team sheet whilst you obviously consider him to be somewhat of a liability.

I suppose it just goes to show that two people can go and see the same match but come out with entirely different opinions. I suppose this website would be a much more boring place to visit if that wasn't the case.
Dave Wilson
90   Posted 12/05/2010 at 16:33:37

Report abuse

You can take a horse to water...
Ciarán McGlone
91   Posted 12/05/2010 at 16:55:23

Report abuse

But you can't make him think...
Dave Wilson
92   Posted 12/05/2010 at 16:35:12

Report abuse

I don't think Jagielka is a liability, he is clearly a very fine defender. I pointed out the errors for two reasons:

1) Because people on here seemed to think the list didn't exist; well it does and to be honest if I wanted to drive home the point I could produce another one.

2) I have felt for some time that we have blue-eyed boys who can do no wrong according to the "in crowd" on this site and we have whipping boys who can do no right.

Can you imagine the abuse Hibbert would get if he was responsible for the erors I pointed out? Even when he is MotM, people can't find it in their hearts to congratulate him.

I do get pissed at the Jag's over use of the long ball, but just as I`m not blinded to his shortcomiongs I`m not blinded to his strengths either, he`s a superb defender and if he wasn't injured, he would be on his way to SA.

I just want ALL of our players to be judged the same way... Never going to happen though.

Dave Smith
93   Posted 12/05/2010 at 20:19:36

Report abuse

Just watching the Europa Final. Fucking Simon Davies. And why isn't Zamora in the England squad?

Concerning the Jags issue — show me a perfect player, and I will drink your water.
James Stewart
94   Posted 12/05/2010 at 20:32:31

Report abuse

John Daley,

Well it was partly tongue in cheek as I don't give a damn about England.

But name me an English RB who has played better than Hibbert in the last few games? There isn't one... so if Capello was picking on form then why not? Capello talks shit, that's why. It sounds good saying that kind of thing but in reality it's not true.
Richard Porter
95   Posted 12/05/2010 at 20:42:48

Report abuse

Zamora isn't in the England squad as he informed Capello he needs an operation after tonight's match. Capello explicitly stated that he would have named Zamora in his preliminary squad had he been available.

Also, someone asked why no Phil Neville — he's injured as well. And Carragher hasn't been chosen ahead of Jags as a centre back — Carragher is in the squad as second choice right back, a role which he is better at than Jagielka. But not Hibbert.

Also, on the original topic, the home nations have a gentlemen's agreement not to exploit the residency rules, as residency actually qualifies a player for all four home nations, not just one.
Karl Masters
96   Posted 13/05/2010 at 00:06:19

Report abuse

Dave Wilson: Didn't Jags play midfield against Blackburn, WBA and Pompey during our poor start to last season?

Dick Anderson: Don't often agree with you, but I agree that Carragher is a joke, although for a bit of balance, I think you'll find he's in as cover for right back primarily as Capello has about 15 injury ridden crocks in his 30. Defence is especially suspect.

Of course, you had to ruin my newly found admiration for you by proclaiming Ledley King as one of Europe's best defenders! Hmmm. Emperor's New Clothes springs to mind. Just cos he plays for media darlings Spurs you can add him to the extensive list of over-rated Spurs players to get in with England stretching back to the 80's such as Gary Stevens (not our Shagger), Terry Fenwick, Darren Anderton, Ian Walker, Dawson has done well, but he'll be like an oil tanker turning against the likes of Villa or the Brazilians. Jag's game is actually more suited to international football than either of them, but that's Capello's loss.

I don't really care how England and their band of self obsessed, money-grabbing twats do. Cole, Terry, Barry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard, Lescott etc... what a nice group NOT. The thought of that prick John Terry hoisting the World Cup makes me feel sick. I just hope Bainesy comes back ok, good luck to Timmy Cahill, Stevie Pienaar, Tim Howard and the Nigerian trio, but other than that I don't really care.
Adolf Ng
97   Posted 13/05/2010 at 08:58:11

Report abuse

Can't see how players of an "unfashionable" club like us have been overlooked by strong teams ... with Netherlands calling Heitinga, France calling Saha (at least before he got injured and withdrew, and when he was banging in goals for fun...), while Maradona was calling barcode (Newcastle, actually) players in the Argentinian squad ...
Ben Jones
98   Posted 13/05/2010 at 11:43:27

Report abuse

Wow, many additions to the debates.

Yes, Karl, you are right, I explained this to Mr Wilson earlier which I remember clearly. That's where his majorly bad performances came from. Yes, he has made many abd mistakes but he is also a very good defender, and like David Thomas, would be one of the first players in the majority of Everton's fans eyes.

With regards to Hibbert though, I feel sorry for him. I remember seeing him against Fulham, I've never seen him go forward with so much conviction and confidence, just like he was when he started with us. If Moyes gave him a chance earlier, he would no doubt be in the England squad in my eyes, especially as Carragher's in the squad for cover for right back.

If he has a good pre-season, I'd certainly pick him over Neville to start next season, although knowing Moyes, that will never happen!
Dave Wilson
99   Posted 13/05/2010 at 12:18:33

Report abuse

Ben, you didn't explain anything; when asked, you didn't know, I gave you the chance.

You are grasping at straws, I know where he played and when, I carefully avoided using games when he played midfield or right back... just admit you were wrong.

Every single cock-up I listed was when he played CB and you can't change that.
Jamie Tulacz
100   Posted 13/05/2010 at 14:20:21

Report abuse

Don't know if this point has been covered (as too many post s to read back on!), but I suspect that half of the problem for Arteta is that he doesn't play in Spain — hence all the rumours circulating in previous years about him returning.

Excluding Iniesta, Xavi and Fabregas, I'd still say he's better than a number of players in their squad of 30.
Ben Jones
101   Posted 13/05/2010 at 22:04:33

Report abuse

I was wrong?

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb