The Mail Bag
Victor's Potential
Comments (72)
It's time to put my head on the block and suggest something that others have already mocked me over...
Victor Anichebe, in my opinion, has all the ingredients to be a world class player.
Now, I am not saying he is a world class player — far from it currently — but if you analyse snippets of his performances, spread across a number of matches, you start to see a set of abilities that could make him a world beater.
Whilst not the quickest, he certainly has pace. This, combined with an immense strength, make him unplayable at times (all too infrequent times!). With his shooting boots on, he has demonstrated great goalscoring ability. His surging runs that I have witnessed once or twice take him past players with ease and create opportunities for himself and others.
So, he has proved to me that he has tremendous ability, but it is not on display anywhere near often enough.
If someone can get those abilities onto the pitch, with the right levels of desire and commitment and energy, I believe we have an absolutely fantastic and unique player on our hands.
I am a fan in waiting for his lad to consistently perform.
Now shoot me down.
Gareth Mercer, Posted 17/05/2010 at 10:28:23
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Watching Anichebe you catch glimpses and you think this boy really does have all the PHYSICAL attributes to take him places — he just needs to work on it mentally.
Hate them all you like, but your Rooneys and Gerards have ran through brick walls through their careers and sadly Vic has shown none of this.
To be fair since, he has come back and he seems to of improved and it appears Moyes sees something in him, given the fact he had questioned his attitude not too long ago.
But then when he gets his chance back upfront, he needs to become more clinical and selfish in front of goal and not rush his shots off or go for power too much. He needs to pick his spot, make his mind up quick and go for his first instincts and then he'll get more goals. But he also needs to put that effort in at all times, from first minute to last, like all the top players do... like the Rooneys, Gerrards, Lampards and etc of this world and then he'll become a good striker for us IMO.
Next week you'll be suggesting that Hibbert can score goals, Vaughan can play a dozen games on the trot or Yakubu is looking dangerously skinny.
But an option off the bench to give defenders a shit time either from wide or centrally... yes — he showed this year he's got some sort of future. Would love to see more of his mongrel side rather than the soft, lazy stuff we've had in the past. Showed both sides of that in the derby at Anfield.
He rarely fails to disappoint when he actually does play. He looks dangerous but very rarely turns that danger into anything substantial. All too often you can see frustration with his own play written in his face. To me he is playing one division above his competence. If it was up to me, I would move him on for whatever we can get, which in today's market could be a substantial sum.
No defenses in England are worried about facing Victor Anichebe in the line-up I can tell you that. Future world class? No way.
Henry Ford once said "Show me a man with a burning desire for success and he will succeed above the man with talent" or something like that. Vic doesn't have that drive he looks like he thinks he's already there whilst the great players realise success is a journey not a destination.
Vic has skill, strength and physique but still has a lot to learn about the game and how to play.
His timing and passing are far from world class and he still needs to do a lot of work on positioning.
He MAY develop into a good Premier League player but world class... never.
Rooney at the age of 9 knew more about how football should be played.
"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." — Henry Ford
Priceless!
Abramovich = Kenwright
For me, he seems to have a terrible attitude, as if he has already "made it".
I heard Duncan McKenzie a few years ago. He was asked about Anichebe, and thought him best employed as a “battering ram” who could come on late and perhaps shake people up. I have not seen anything since which would really counter this view.
Groucho Marx said many years ago: “If she’s a virgin, then Joan of Ark is second base for the Cleveland Indians”. So, to borrow from the great man, “If Anichebe’s world class …”
Anchovie?!
I dont pronounce it either way. Normally I just shake my head and say 'not that useless twat again'.
Bad touch, terrible decision making and not a natural finisher (not to mention his moody attitude)... He is a squad player and impact player at best. The latter of the 2 gets the bext out of him.
His stats of 1 goal in 10 games whether thats at centre forward, right mid or from the bench, it's shite for a supposed striker — tells you all you need to know.
With a fully fit squad and Donavon possibly coming back, he won't get near the first 11. Fact.
Anichebe had replaced the darling Landon long before he had departed, Moyes clearly demonstrated who he considers the better player, by opting for Vic the minute he was fit, even after a year out... and Vic showed us why when he scored the sort of goal at Birmingham that the MLS star could only dream of scoring.
Despite another couple of injuries, Vic has played enough to demonstrated an ability to go past a man and create goals, something I can't remember Landon doing — despite popular myth. He's as fast as Donovan, shoots better with both feet, has more power, and is better in the air. Yet people want to talk about imaginary goals Landon created with his pace whilst damning Anichebe.
Anyone pointing to the number of goals against appearances either doesn't quite understand the stats or is deliberately trying to mislead. Vic may have made 92 appearances but a very high percentage of those were the last 4-5 minutes, when Moyes has sent him on to salvaged something.
Nearly all the games he has started in the past two seasons have been on the right, so why judge him by his goals? it doesnt make sense.
World class? Never, but Stevie Wonder could see this lad has the tools to play Prem football if he can somehow learn to apply himself, consistently
Players coming through the ranks are like gold, fans of other clubs cherish them, yet for some reason Evertonians can't wait to condemn ours. Vic`s in his early 20s, he has fought his way back from a terrible injury, he has put in some decent performances yet some people just cant wait to put the boot in... I just don't get it.
"Sell him"? WTF? The guy has played a handful of games in a year, we`d get nothing for him.
Best case scenario ; We get rid of one of our low earners.
Worst case scenario; He goes elsewhere and fulfills all the promise Moyes and many others see in him.
Here`s a novel idea ; How about we start getting behind our youngsters and encourage them in their development?
Donavan is technically a much more gifted player the Anichebe. The fact Anichebe came through the ranks is irrelevant, if a players isn't good, they're not good enough. It's people like you who put 2 and 2 together and get 5.
As for using stats, you use the most obscure stats to suit you and people point out the simple stat that all strikers are measured against i.e goals to game ratio and you mock them.
Thank fuck you're not involved in team selections as our right hand side would be Hibbert right back and Anichebe right wing. Fucking hell, the top 4 will be shitting themselves when they see that. You would also sell the best defender at the club and one of the best in the league, jagielka. Anichebe is a squad player at best. As for this original post, to claim he has the potential to be world class is just ludicrous. Lets see if he's in the starting 11 in august shall we?
You stated Vic wouldn't get near the team if Donovan was back, "fact", you said
Sorry mate but every Evertonian — except you — knows Moyes chose the LOCAL BOY over Donovan despite him being out for a year... funny that.
As for your stat about strikers? Well, every Evertonian — except you again — knows Moyes has been playing Vic wide right for two seasons.
Not sure what Hibbo has to do with this, although I really laughed at you obsessing so much about him you had to bring him up — again.
Oh and Brian, don't be at all surprised if the club see the wisdom in my idea, and cash in on your hero Mr Hoofball.
WATCH THIS SPACE!
And try to look on the bright side of life... Brian!
What I am amazed about is your comparison with Donovan, WTF as a team with him we beat Manure & Chelski and should have beat the Arse, something we have not done in the modern era; without him and with Vic we drew games we should have won.
I'm sorry but I would have Landon over Vic anyday and to suggest otherwise is just plain silly. Vic has come back well from his injury but I'm not convinced he is more than an impact sub.
Unfortunately for Vic, his reappearance coincided with Jagielka's return... and it's in defence where we changed victories to draws.
It might also surprise you to know I didn't pick the team; it was Moyes who benched Donovan in favour of Vic.
Take it up with him.
Cute Dave, but facts are irrefutable. This is a guy who came through the ranks as a striker, and so inept is he, that he gets thrown on at twenty-to-five, in order to give someone a rest; and indeed does get deployed as a square peg on the right wing. If he was GOOD at centre-forward play, then Moyes would play him there — rocket science it ain't.
Also, do you think Victor is an effective winger-really? How often has he beat the full back, and delivered one to the six yard box? Do you see similarities with Tricky perhaps?
Toffeewebbers are now accustomed to seeing your loyal infatuation with the local boys repeatedly clouding your judgement. Osman, Hibbert and Victor are not without merit, but do they merit coninued perseverance?
You choose goals per game because it suits your argument, Dave Wilson chooses whatever suits his argument. Also if he has been played as a winger why should he be judged as a striker, surely for those games he should be judged as a winger?
Oh and Donavon scored 2 goals in his 13 games for Everton, whilst Vic scored one goal in just 6 starts. Oops there I go producing the stats to make an argument, please note I didn't say point, because there is no point to be made, other than stats can be manipulated to suit any argument.
It is true that Anichebe got the nod over Donovan in the away match at Wigan but it's my guess that Moyes was trying to suss out his options for when Donovan left.
I have nothing against local lads — in fact, I would prefer the team to be stuffed full of them but, as someone else pointed out, if they're not good enough, it doesn't matter. It's my opinion that Anichebe will remain a squad player used for impact only. If not, I believe he'll find his level a la Jevons, Chadwick, Cadamarteri, Wakenshaw etc.
He was a pacey, hard working midfielder who was in the team at about the same time that we started to improve. He had a couple of really good games and suddenly we've elevated him to World Class level. He's not... if he comes back I suspect he'll disappoint. Technically he's a bit all over the place and once he had a bad miss (you know the miss I mean) it was really highlighted - ie prior to that he was playing on confidence.
I've never seen great potential in Big Vic but this season I thought he showed he wanted to make something of himself. He should be better than Donovan given time and if his attitude is right next season.
In your desire to put down Vic, you seem to be overlooking the fact that Vic was given the nod over Landon at Spurs and Birmingham, we were 2-0 up — thanks to Vic's great work at St Andrews; Landon came on later... and stunk. When Landon came on at WHL, he contrived to miss the worst sitter I have ever seen an Everton player miss.
When I say I cant remember Landon skinning a defender and setting up a goal, why do you suppose nobody came on and pointed one out? Vic's done it though, on more than one occasion. Despite recovering from a lengthy injury, Vics record this season stands up against Donovan's all day long.
Landon would cost millions and would command a high wage despite not being able to keep his place for the very short space of time he was here; Vic cost nothing earns relatively little... but you prefer Landon. I'm so glad Moyes disagrees.
Btw, despite his young age and the fact that has been out for a year, Vic has probably played more games already than the four people on your list put together.
In my humble opinion, he is an impact player off the bench, but nothing more. World class players want the ball, world class players move well without the ball, world class players show unstoppable desire. He has none of these (plus a very heavy first touch). Sorry, I wish that I was wrong.
I dont have a "loyal infatuation" for local players,
What I do have is an intense dislike for the sort of shite you have put forward in order to make one of them look bad, You know that over half the stats you present as "irrefutable fact" where in fact brief substitute appearances by a young teenager understudy to a 12 million quid striker, you know that most of these appearances from the bench were no more than 5 minutes or so, but you deliberately present them as 90 minute appearances.
Most fans would love a teenager - which is what he was before his injury - to be pushing or a place in the team. You on the other hand just want to have a pop at him.
Your not alone Everton are cursed by this incessant desire from a section of our fans to hammer our own.
Moyse himself expressed his dissapointment in his recent GOS interview.
I`ll give you a prediction here and now - and feel very free to throw it back at me if it doesnt happen ; Everton WILL qualify for the CL next season . . and they will do it with 5-6 local boys in the squad, players that you footballing Einsteins have deemed not prem class.
Actually, I`ll give you a second prediction ; WHEN we have qualified for the CL, people like You, Brian Lawlor adn Ray Robinson will go to extrodinary lengths to try to somehow detract from "our boys" contribution
The fact that these guys have made a career out of qualifying for Europe and but for injuries may have done so again, is lost on you.
I`m more than happy to put serious wedge down and see whose judgement really is clouded, are you ?
You are not wrong my friend, you are spot on, but why cant people just simply say they dont rate him.
What motivates people to distort facts, see things that didnt happen and ignore things that did, if a player isnt good enough, he wont make it, simple as
Point out to me where I have used the phrase "90 minutes?" In fact, I mirrored the point that he is regularly used as a sub, in order to make up the numbers, in post 34.
This only further demonstrates the point that I, and many others, including THE MANAGER, can see perfectly well: The kid's simply not good enough. He's not a top striker, and doesn't look like he ever will be.
That isn't "hammering them," Dave, it's simply an opinion. Don't take it to heart..
I applaud your incessant, full-throated albeit boring defence of our local players, in fact I'm pretty proud of the likes of Ozzie, Hibbo, Baines, Rodwell, and indeed Victor all being Scousers — I love that, and love pointing it out to fans of Deportivo Liverpool!
Yet you need to see the wood from the trees, Dave! Do you really see Vic as a 30-goal-a-season striker? Do you really see Ozzie dominating Sky5/Euro midfields? Come on! Is Hibbo the man to take us the the next level? — Puh-lease!
Full marks for your smitten defence of mediocrity... but, if I were you, I'd spend your "serious wedge" on something more substantial than blind faith.
So you won't put your money where your gob is? Fair enough. And full marks, that was the wordiest bottle job I've heard in a long time.
As for Moyes not thinking Vic is good enough? Strange that, because, since those appearances as a teenage sub you refer to, DM seems to be selecting him every time he's fit.
One more thing: Hibbo and Ossie have proved they can get into the top four, that's not blind faith, or opinion, it's what you would term irrefutable fact.
.
Keeping your money in your pocket is the first sensible thing you have done on this thread.
"Champions League, we're 'avin' a laff..."
So, no.
"Sorry mate but every Evertonian — except you — knows Moyes chose the LOCAL BOY over Donovan despite him being out for a year... funny that."
Another classic from you that goes with "Tony million caps Hibbert"
Look at the responses you've had; I think there are quite a few who disagree with that insane point.
Do you know what nil satis nisi optimum means? It doesn't mean "nothing but average is satisfactory". If you can't tell an average player from a good one, why are you watching football?
You mentioned that we broke the top four with Osman and Hibbert. One question for you: do you think we had a better team then — yes or no?
Thank fuck your opinions count for nothing and only them of the manager and coaching staff count. As I said, when we have a full squad at the start of the season, let's see where Victor is. Your hot air counts for nothing.
"I'll give you a prediction here and now — and feel very free to throw it back at me if it doesn't happen: Everton WILL qualify for the CL next season... and they will do it with 5-6 local boys in the squad, players that you footballing Einsteins have deemed not Prem class."
Hardly mystic meg are you? "In the squad" means they might not even play a game all season. Everyone accepts they're squad players; what they aren't is first choice and you're ludricous suggestion that Anichebe (as well as your post a few weeks agao) is better than Donovan suggests you reckon he is.
Tell me, in us qualifying for the CL next season, what percentage of league games will Tony Hibbert and Victor Anichebe actually start? Then we'll actually see if you're putting your money where your mouth is...
Fair point about Jags; when fully fit, he is an awesome stopper but his distribution has always been weak.
Yes, Donovan came into the team and we had some great results... I don't think it was just down to him — I think that he was 1 of 11 who all played well. Victor to me has potential but needs to work harder on the mental side of the game.
Moyes did drop Landon, as soon as Vic was fit — that's a fact lad, you or I can't change that.
And in case it`s escaped your notice, nobody's opinion on this site counts for anything, it just so happens that mine is the same as DM's on this issue.
You say I can't tell a mediocre player from good one... Ha Ha, this is from the man who said Jagielka is one of the Prem's top defenders. Well guess what: Fabio doesn't think so either — that's why he's chosen a couple of crocks in front of him.
Moyse did drop landon, as soon as Vic was fit, thats a fact lad, you or I cant change that.
And in case it`s escaped your notice nobodys opinion on this site counts for anything, it just so happens trhat mine is the same as DMs on this issue.
You say I cant tell a mediocre player from good one, HA Ha, this is from the man who said Jagielka is one of th3e prems top defender, well guess what Fabio doesnt think so either, thats why he`s chosen a couple of crocks in front of him.
W
Everyone says Vaughan should be sold but I've never seen anyone in a blue shirt frighten a defence to death the way James does (apart from Rooney). Why do we have to put up with lethagic performances from Saha and Yak when we've got this kid? They get a chance to start all the time... why doesn't he?
Vaughan has spent majority of his career on the treatment table thus far, that's the main reason why he has not been starting many games.
Of course I'm on my own when I say Jags is one of the best defenders in the league aren't I? That's why Man Utd and City are sniffing round isn't it — cos he's shite and they need a hoofball merchant!!
You seriously need to get a life — on here all night posting replies.
Talking about opinions, there are numerous people on this site whose opinion is that you're insane.
But before I get off home to bed, I`ll offer you a bet, that even taking injuries into consideration, VIc and Hibbo and Ossie will play at least 40 games between them next season AND we will qualify for Champions League.
Put up or shut up
He'll be sold to West Brom and find his level in the Championship.
I bet you that Hibbert and Anichebe don't start more than 40 games between because neither will be first choice as they will only be squad players.
To clarify, both wont start more than 40 league games between them... How much?
Still, keep bringing on the crazy...
"He's as fast as Donovan" — err no he isn't;
"He shoots better with both feet" — err, no, his shooting is not as good;
"He has more power" — indeed
He is better in the air" — big deal... but so are most players over 5ft as Donovan is small — BUT I can't think of a single goal Vic has scored with his head?
Dave, you are obsessed with praising home grown players and if you really believe Moyes would prefer to have Anichebe over Donovan, it shows how infatuated you are.
We have seen Vic do it this year — seems to have found a bit of technique in that area which isn't surprising given his age.
You do make me laugh.
Bookies would give you even money on naming any two players to play 40 games for any club, they would give you about 25/1 about Everton finishing top four and they would give you about 50/1 to do it naming two players who will play 40 games... and you ain't even money.
You are obviously up for a bet, so here`s one: I`ll take Osman out of the equation and say Vic and Hibbert will take part in at least a third of Everton games and that we`ll finish top four.
Now a third of the games in a season is a substantial contribution, especially if its made by two people you have insisted are not good enought to play for Everton — if you are right, they wouldn't play any games at all.
If you believe what you say, you will name the amount and accept the bet in a heartbeat; if you don't accept the bet, you merely prove you lack the courage of your convictions and are merely gobbing off at what you see as easy targets like the rest of the sheep... Baaaaah.
Peter; try as I might, I can't change it for you, you need to take of the star spangled specs and accept when the chips were down Moyes clearly chose Vic over Landon.
Aiden; Vic arrived in Liverpool as a baby, he has lived there all his life, he`s as scouse as the liver birds. I`ll make a deal with you, I`ll refrain from bringing on the crazy just as long as you stop bringing on the dumb.
You're saying that they will start one third of the league games each, which is 26 games in total between them? That hardly constitutes 1st choice, does it — and that's my point. They are squad players, no more. You obviously don't have any faith in them. As I said all along, they're not first choice and your bet of 26 games between them suggests you agree.
You sir, are a proper crank. Just read people's responses to you. What's wrong with you, couldn't you sleep?
Do you think if we had a bigger squad,Moyes would use Anichebe?
Can you substantiate the theory that Victor is a good player,and will rock the Prem one day? Can you point out for all our benefit,why he's such a good player in terms of contribution made?
Hibbo & Ossie did break the top four;Once. Have they done it since,and have they improved since 2004?
Does your bar-room wisdom extend to wondering why the Anichebe debate exists in the first place? What are we to deduce from the fact that nobody agrees with you?
All we're saying Dave,is that the oft-mentioned players are decent,but they're not brilliant,and shouldn't we look for better having PERSISTED with them for years,now? What's so wrong with discussing that?
Top marks for entertainment value,though Dave.You've given all of us a giggle! And rather than tolerating you calling me a bottler,I'll bet you a "wonner," we don't finish higher than SIXTH,next season..
Although why I'd want to bet against my own team completely batters my head!! ( I want us to finish top four,desperately )
Over to you,Popeye.
One more thing: could anyone answer Dave's point, that when Anichebe was fit, why was he was picked over Donovan? If Donovan is the better of the two, why did Moyes relegate Donovan to the bench? Maybe Moyes rates Anichebe over Donovan.
Respect to you for having the courage of your convictions ( see ya Brian )
Of course I`ll accept your bet - we`ll deal with that later, in a way that suits you - but given my new found respect for you, let me do you the courtesy of given you some serious honest answers.
I think if we had a BETTER squad Moyes would NOT use Vic .
Not sure I`ve ever said Vic was such a good player, although I get really defensive when people overlook the fact that he`s played more games than most 22 year olds can dream of and I hate it when we dismiss youngsters prematurely or call them crap worse still distort stats to make him look worse.
I feel like that towards all local boys, Hibbo and Ossie are no superstars either, but they have played in the Prem for nearly a decade qualifying for Europe nearly every time yet almost daily some beaut logs onto TW and claims they are no better than Championship standard . . .do they not realise that these Vital vital players save our club millions on squad players and therefor make signing some top players possible ?
Vic's has a lot of attributes, but I`d agree he has yet to prove he can consistently put it all together.
I honestly believe he is better than Donovan though, I thought Landon was being found out and got out just in time - only my opinion.
Why does the Anichebe debate exist ?
well I think for several reasons
I) because debates exist about most players
2) because the right side of our midfield has been problematic for as long as I can remember, Many have made excuses for Cahill when he played there, as others did for Ossie, but although Vic is better than both of them out there, people will NOT give him a fair crack. read the comments above, they go way beyond "just saying he`s decent, but not brilliant".
I think he`s shown promise out there and I`d hate to think we gave up on him after a handful of games.
3) He`s acted like a spoilt brat in the past, people dont seem to want to forgive him.
Anyway, thats as honest as I can answer you.
What I would say to the people who want to claim Moyse didnt chose Vic over Donovan ;
Fair enough pretend it didnt happen if it makes you happier, but be careful in that sandpit, it must be awful crowded down there with so many people wanting to bury their fucken heads in it
Off to work again, no rest for the wicked,
Think about how you want to set this bet up Sweet Pea
In fairness, that's a great point you make about the offset between home-grown versus imported players. Never thought of it in those terms, and the long service ought to be appreciated, for sure. You may also have noticed I didn't challenge you on the Donovan question — I too thought opponents were staring to get onto him.
Regarding the bet, I'm game for it, but rather than publish my details here, I'm on Facebook, and my profile picture is a Lazio badge. Feel free to friend request me.
Enjoy your shift!
So let' have him settle in well next season (God, please no injury tsunami again. It's some other team's turn. Oh and world peace. Amen). Rodwell's promise fulfilled, keep what we have, and bring back Donovan.
Not just talented but deep too. And without Europe to worry about. Top 4 sure, with Top 1 in play.
It's occured to me that I`ve kinda railroaded you into betting against your team by calling you a bottler.
To be honest I love a bet and if I don't have it with you, I know many RS who will accomodate me.
You`re obviously up for a bet yourself, but if you`re uncomfortable with this particular bet and want out, I`m ok with that, I think you`ve proved you`re prepared to back your opinion up.
We both have to be careful about giving details, but I dont do facebook, it scares me a little, if you`re happy to go ahead with the bet, I`ll get my details to you.
Who knows, you may even prize a couple of beers out of me too.
In my book, Vaughan is a better player who has more speed and works harder... but, just like Big Vic, playing consistently is a problem because we have proven goalscorers like Saha, Yak and Cahill. All 5 players have had many injury problems over the last couple of seasons and is probably instrumental in Everton making progress to break the top four.
Moyes has to make a decision about Big Vic. Either get him a starting role in the pre-season games and see if he can impress and if not he will be a sub again for next season and then put in the shop window for offers by January.
I wasn't wild, in principle, to the idea of betting that my team wouldn't do as well as I would hope, so you've done the decent thing there... respect due.
Oh, and if we ever do bump into each other... the first round's on me.
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1 Posted 17/05/2010 at 14:30:08
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But I still think he should be a striker. Just needs to improve a few things, especially finishing and decisions, and he could be that lone striker we have been dreaming of. His hold up play is exceptional, and as you say great pace too.
I think potential world class player is a bit much though.