The Mail Bag
What to do with Pienaar?
Comments (144)
He has been a brilliant player for us, he really has. He is central to the football that we want to play. He keeps it on the ground, lots of short passes and never stops running. He is probably at his peak.
What I am thinking is that next season is our best chance to reach the top-4. If we fail this season, I feel we will be waiting another generation to reach it.
I get the feeling that many people agree with this sentiment. So, with that in mind, What to do with regards to Pienaar's contract?
If we keep him, and risk losing him for free next season, at least we will keep him in our most important of seasons.
If we sell him, get £10-14 million, we need to replace him. And this replacement needs to settle immediately. When buying a player, there is always the risk that they won't be any good. Can we afford that risk?
We need to sign a right-sided midfielder. Can we really expect to sign two wide players in one summer, have them settle, and be at the level we need them to be?
Ideally he will sign a new contract. But, if this doesn't happen, what should we do?
I would keep him, go for it and risk losing him for free. If we finish 4th or higher, he will happily stay, and we will be able to afford a new contract. If not, it will be a bugger to lose him for nothing, but we will survive.
Fran Mitchell, Posted 24/05/2010 at 12:56:47
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Once you get people who want to leave the club, it tends to influence the rest to look for greener pastures.
I would suggest letting him go now. Don't want it to turn all Lescott-esque. I don't think we would fetch £10m though. The suspicion would be £8m. Hope I am wrong.
I think the talk of £14-18 million for him is ridiculous to be honest. I think we'd be very lucky to get ten!
So I see the decision David Moyes having to make is... If I keep Pienaar for the last year of his present contract, is that going to be worth ten million pounds (or whatever bid, if there are any that is) that's received?
If Moyes receives a bid that he feels is worth more to the club than Pienaar's services for a year, then it's bye bye Steven (presuming he'd go to the bidder of course).
Don't underestimate David Moyes's ruthlesness if Pienaar decides he wants to hold out and play hardball. He (Moyes) may just decide (if a bid comes in) that the amount is worth more to the club than a year of Pienaar!
Don't get too greedy, Steven!
I think Everton will make one last bid to improve their offer then sadly have to give in to the overtures of Pienaar's Mr 10%. I must admit that, much as I'd like to keep him because he is no doubt an exceptional talent, the thought of him playing out his contract in front of our fans fills me with dread.
The worst possible scenario will see him playing out his current contract on the bench or in the treatment room. Better to have some honesty about his intentions so we all know where we stand and he gets sold immediately after the World Cup and we get sufficient time to find some sort of replacement.
Spurs obviously like the look of him and Harry has been known to splash the cash although I for one will never forgive him for selling us those two duck eggs Williamson and Bilic. As for a replacement, Marin, Moutinho come to mind but realistically his departure is going to weaken the project.
I would go all out for Marin, to me he has a streak of Alan Ball in him.
I don't think so. This seems to be about wages, not ambition. He's not going to be offered the money he wants with us, so it's better to get rid now while we can still get a reasonable fee.
We dragged him out of the shit and deserve more from him.
If we have a chance of Moutinho then sell Pienaar and get the lad. As for needing a Right midfielder, either Donovan or someone already in England would be my way around settling in issues.
Small minded bitterness is a plague on our society, and nowhere is it more rife than in the minds of fickle football fans.
Pienaar has done nothing wrong, yet so many people are laying into him.
His career was going nowhere when Moyes gave him a break, he has admitted as much himself. How does he repay the manager and the club? By asking for astronomical wages to no doubt force a transfer.
In my opinion, no matter how good he is, if he does not want to stay, fuck him off and get we can asap.
He wants to wait till after the World Cup? Tough shit, fuck him off now as miserable players can spread dissent through a squad.
One last thing, as good as he is, he is not irreplaceable, he dosnt score enough for a start.
He's on the list...
I suppose incarcerating him in Rupert Tower is out of the question...
Petrov - free
Ireland - £5 mill
Donovan - £10 mill
Joe Cole - free (signing on fee a la Kanchelskis)
Out
Pienaar - £15 mill
Let Pienaar go this summer, he won't want to put 50% effort in if we keep him another season on his "measley" contract.
Let's hope he doesn't break a leg in the World Cup coz then we will be fucked.
---------------------
He – like most other players – had a decent spell for two-thirds of the season.
He couldn't string a pass together for the first two months.
So, your suggestion is doubted.
Alternatively, give him 60k a week now, value shoots up. sell him after the World Cup for £20-25 mill rather than the £10-15 mill we would get for him with one year left.
Two can play that game!
As for the player:
On his talks at Goodison Park, Pienaar, who is out of contract next year, explained: 'I'd say the spirit of discussions was very good, but we have differing valuations, so my future isn't clear.
'I don't know. Everton may keep me for the last year of my deal, but they could sell me too.
'If they decide to sell, and the move is correct for my career, then I'll consider it.
'Hopefully this hasn't been my last season at Goodison but in football, who knows?'
Seems reasonable.
I think Moyes should do nothing until the tournament is over, and let's see where Pienaar's brain is. Maybe his self-valuation will be a little more reasonable.
As for his level head — well he lives near my sister and I can assure you, he's well regarded down here as being a massive nobhead in every respect!
Your suggestion is nonsense on a pure financial basis.
He is one of the players that always bust a gut for the team, never shirked a challenge or failed to track back and when he was on song... boy, he played some great stuff. We have always had a good week's work from the lad in exchange for his pay and that is all you can ask from any employee.
If he now thinks he can get a better deal elsewhere, then I have no problems with that — especially as we have the news early enough to get a decent fee, make a nice profit and have time to source a replacement.
This is the business we are in: players come and players go but the club endures. Let's just hope that the lad who fills Pienaar's shirt will work just as hard for the club. It's the shirt that counts, not who is inside it.
If he's going he MUST be replaced by a similar match winner. We have two special players who can create at will, Pienaar and Arteta, these are our two most important men. If we lose one of them it must be for enough money and with a good enough player lined up to replace him.
I would put a price on him, say £15M, and if someone offers it, in cash, up front, sell (even if its Man City). If not, keep him for the extra season and send the message that we can't be held to ransom. The other huge issue is whether we sell him to a club who has underperforming players, and they can be part of a deal. I'm thinking someone like Bentley or Ireland plus cash (or as mentioned above, preferably someone from a team in Spain so Pienaar isn't helping one of our rivals).
Your argument is contradictory.
It'll never happen in a million years, he'd never get past Arsenal or Spurs on his way up north!
If wages are the reason for Pienaar's situation, how do you think we can pay Cole's wage?
Also, £5 million for Ireland. If possible, I'd bite their hands off; however, it'll be closer to £15 million — even if he ain't first choice (for some reason, the over-rated Barry is above him in the team).
Here's one for ya: How about Reira from the shite? He's a quality player who had a bad time at a club. Sounds very Moyes-esque. He's quick, a left winger and wouldn't it be great to see him do well and be able to rub the red shite noses in the fact that they gave him to us?
"The money doesn't matter. You couldn't buy the feeling of being out there (in the play-off final)."
Compare that to Pienaar's pouting and posturing over the contract negotiations.
It's a real shame that absolute greed is ruining the game.
I am sure Pienaar is angling towards getting a free at the end of his contract so he can demand huge wages or a big signing-on fee.
Sell him now and get what we can.
He's a South African, who lived in Holland for 5-6 years and signed for Everton.
What commands him to be loyal to Everton?
If you hate disloyatly so much, why advocate the signing of Moutinho. Suely if he left Sporting that would be disloyal. Why is Donovan not being loyal to the US league that has supported him for so long? Why is Beckford being so disloyal to leeds?
Nobody talks of loyalty and lack thereof when players sign for Everton, or indeed when we sell them a la Johnson. Why?
It's called ambition.
The fact that people get so angry at greed is beyond me. Yes, it's disgraceful but does it actually shock you? If we couldn't afford to offer a 19-year-old £30k, we would be calling him disloyal today. Did he not sign a contract last summer? Yet he has shown his loyalty?!?!?! Loyalty would have been staying despite the increase in wage, wouldn't it?
"James Marshall, Why did Rodwell, Cahill (and hopefully Arteta) sign a new contract when they could have gone to a Champions League club?
Your argument is contradictory"
Rodwell has been smart enough to stay for at least another year — had he signed for a top 4 club, he'd have spent the vast majority of his time warming the bench. With us, he gets to play.
Long-term contracts mean nothing — don't be fooled. Clubs/players sign them so they can sell players a year or so later for a higher price. Don't be fooled into believing that he'll stay for 5 years.
Cahil wouldn't have been able to sign for any top 4 club. None of them would have signed him because he's too old and doesn't fit in with the way any of them play. He can't pass, doesn't work particularly hard, but does do his job well — that job is at Everton where his role is clear, not any one of the top 4 clubs has ever taken an interest in him as far as I'm aware. I dispute your assumption massively.
As for Arteta, well that's pure speculation because he's neither signed a new deal, nor has he been tapped up by anyone else so I don't see that I've contradicted myself in the slightest.
With respect, you're falling into that trap of assumption being the mother of all fuck-ups!
It's so misplaced, it's untrue.
Cahill is NOT TOO OLD. He CAN pass. Works hard... And yes, he DOES do his job WELL. If he couldn't, he wouldn't be a professional footballer playing in the top top league for a top club. These players get weeded out early in their careers or after failing in a promising career. So don't give me that tripe. Suppose you'll be saying he can't head next...
Cahill would have been able to sign for a Champions League playing side, I never said it had to be England. Even so, I speak to Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea fans, and they would all love him in their side. Maybe you need to change those SVEN glasses you use to watch the games he plays in.
Did you watch the Confederations Cup last summer? SA were excellent, beaten by Brazil in the semi because of a very late Alves strike.
They then played excellently against 'best team in the world', Spain, losing 3-2 in an excellent match which they were very unlucky not to win (a Spain sub scored two very late goals to make it 2-1 before an even later goal took it to extra time). Pienaar received rave reviews, playing down the middle, all the play went through him.
I believe SA will qualify from the group, they are at least level with both Mexico and Uraguay and are playing at home.
The guy's done well for us these last 3 seasons. He just wants a pay raise. Moyes will or won't pay him and that's that. If he stays, great. He's a good player. If he goes, it's too bad but not the end of the world. He's not exactly Rooney leaving
The question here is posed by Fran and I agree with his last paragraph. Just keep Pienaar until the contract runs out because:
1. Next season, we're in the mix for the Premiership and he's a good footballer. We could use him.
2. All the financial pressure resulting from playing out his contract is on Steven, not the club. If he wants more money than EFC's offering in 2011-2012, he has to show he's worth it. Excelling for a Trophy contender is the best way to do that.
3. Him jaking it next season if Moyes won't pay him is a complete non-starter. Pretending injury or other disruptive behavior will hurt his perceived value, not increase it. Especially for a, by then, 30-year-old wife-beating, drunk-driving, Jesus slinger.
4. For God's sake, the EPL teams that could buy him are the same ones competing with us for Top 4 next year. Better to keep him on the bench than let a player as good as him go to one of our competitors for honors.
Let's get Areta done, work a way for Landon to come back, and announce a suspension of Pienaar's negotiation until after next season so as to not distract from everyone's (Pienaar's too after all) desire to secure Top 4 and challenge for the League Trophy itself.
This is a player we bought for peanuts and could now flog for about £12 mill... who had had two decent seasons, a good season and an outstanding one... Thanks, Steven, for the memories and good luck in the future.
He's not an Evertonian, he's an ambitious professional.
If it's just money alone, I will be disappointed, not that I blame someone leaving for bigger money, just for all the religious stuff he comes out with. A la God is Great so money shouldn't be his main motivator. I envisage a big season next year for Bily so I'd like to get LD in for the RW. As for Joe Cole he would be great but as he wants £100k per week that's a non-starter.
.....what if it's very similar.....very similar indeed!!!
Pienaar then will make his decision and either tell the club he would like to stay for one more year and then leave on a Bosman or he would like to move on to a foreign club or a Champions League club this summer.
We can then either have a go at making the top 4 with Pienaar for one more year and he would get a lucrative contract when he is available on a free, or we can negotiate a good fee for him this summer.
I hope he stays, but I'm pretty sure we could have seen his last game for Everton.
Before all of this debacle, I read that he was looking to be in line with the clubs top earners. Personally, I think he is easily worth the same wages as Arteta and Cahill and if I was him I too would be hanging out for that.
He has busted his balls this season and deserves a good contract.
Regarding Pienaar, for me, the guy is going to go (eventually). He wants more money, which to me EFC may have... but they will not want to upset other senior playing staff (who will want consistency — i.e. Arteta).
The main issue EFC will have is that quite a few players have stuck with their club knowing that a good pay day is only 12 months away — Joe Cole being one of them.
Personally, I think we will see Pienaar next year, but it will be his last.
He's our next Big Dunc in my eyes, if not already.
What has he said that is hypocritical?
And an ok player????? One would think that if he was an ok player this thread would have had about 10 responses with a "who cares?" nature to them. Your passion seems evidence to show he's more than an 'ok' player
I won't shed any tears for Pienaar and he will just be a name that is registered as playing for us — nothing else; he is a great little player, no world beater. We have lost far better players and will sign far better players.
From my point of view, I am not angry with Pienaar; I am disappointed. We have had our money's worth and he has never given less than 100% and as such he should not be criticised for his commitment. I also accept that players have the right to move for more money, as we all do.
However, we are not talking about leaving a job for £20k per year for one for £25k a year. The salary Pienaar is being offered at Everton makes him exceptionally well paid and I believe he is not as good as he thinks he is. We have made him the player he is today — before he signed for us, had anyone heard of him ? He now believes he is bigger than EFC and that is what disappoints me. Well my message to him is: You are NOT bigger than EFC and never will be. We should sell him immediately and try and buy Moutinho who is a far better player and who can comfortably play left midfield.
I put money on it that Pienaar will be a failure wherever he goes, he will not play regularly at a CL team and he will not like that. Still, he will have his extra 10k a week (taxed at 50%) to console him — good luck Steven .......
Also, the dogs in the street knew that Pienaar's contract was running down. It was discussed here, this time last year. The club should have moved before now, but of course we are Everton...
What if he is not prepared to be "fucked off "? What if, when we try to "get shot", he wont go?
The people sneering that he`s a "greedy", "pouting, posturing", "twat" better hope they are wrong, because Pienaar holds all the cards here, he can guarantee himself a more lucrative contract elsewhere by merely honouring his contract and walking at the end of it.
And what's all this about getting £8/10/15 million for him? Try to understand Everton's bargaining position: without Pienaar's co-operation, we don't have one.
Let's hope the vile abuse directed at our Player of the Season is confined to these pages, because Pienaar will have few qualms about doing things the Sol Campbell way if he thinks these are the views of all Evertonians.
Not a repeat of last summer, thank you very much.
Pienaar signed a contract when he moved from Borussia, he's honoured that contract so far — since he has said he's happy to stay — and is one of the few players who consistently puts in a shift.
If he doesn't want to agree an extension, or isn't happy with the money on the table, then that is his business. As a very good footballer heading towards the latter part of his career, he may wish to be playing at the very top level with a real chance of winning stuff.
My gut feeling is that Moyes will probably move him on for whatever he can get and buy in a younger replacement.
I think he is a grand player and has done well for us on the left and in the middle. I don't think he is world class, though... and with £10million we would do very nicely with finding a replacement. Pienaar leaving does not fill me with the dread of Arteta leaving.
End of the day, I would really like him to sign a new contract and see what this team of ours can do next season. If he doesn't and we get a good amount to reinvest, then I would say thanks and good luck to the lad.
He definitely does not deserve the abuse he getting though, I think his contract should have been sorted 12 months ago!
I hope he stays, even if to play out his final year. If nothing else, the pressure to have an exceptional season (which he's absolutely capable of) will be on his shoulders. Couldn't but help us push all the way up the Table, while putting himself in the best light for offers.
If he goes on a transfer in the EPL, it almost has to be to one of our competitors for Top 4. Whatever the price, how is that good for EFC next season? Not only we lose a talent we could keep simply by doing nothing, but also a big opponent adds that same talent? Not good.
The single (and I think best) card Moyes holds is to let Pienaar play out his contract. Steven has no real choice but to play his ass off. Which I believe he will do. Good for EFC and good for him.
On another note, I can't believe someone on this thread stated Cahill does not work that hard. In 30 odd years of watching Everton, he is one of the, if not the most hardest working player I have seen.
But, as with anything, Pienaar will have a salary limit Everton are willing to pay — if he wants more, he won't get it and we should move him on quickly. To get a replacement like him is impossible and we will have to change our style of play — particularly on our left hand side.
People are angry at Pienaar because of the position he's put himself in... Firstly, it's been widely reported that he avoided a contract renewal last summer, thus reducing his value to us.
Secondly, and this is the big one — he seems to be under some sort of delusion that he's too big for this club, and that he'd walk into a Champions League side... Not only does it belittle us — it's makes him something he's not...
Maybe we could get Joe Cole as a replacement.
-----------------------------------
I know you're new to all this, Mr Flynn... but the club is not the players, or the manager or the current board.
Never confuse employees with the club... the fans are the club and they have every right to express their opinions about employees.
You're a bright boy and you'll soon learn to be cynical about footballers. Whether they are currently ours or not.
"If nothing happens before the World Cup with Everton, we may have to consider other options. I am aware of the interest of some big clubs."
If that is not holding a gun to our head then I don't know what is.
As for a CL club, Bollocks. I think he'd be off to Blackpool if he could get a big deal.
Domo Arigato Sensei.
Take one giant step back there, Young'un. I'm American. We CREATED free agency for pro sports athletes. Most of my adult life in numerous pro sports here, players have had some control over who they play for and how much dough they make. Cynicism never occurred to me.
The players aren't the club eh? Bullshit. Why is everyone so passionate about them then? You included. Let's aim your words of wisdom elsewhere there grasshopper.
Steady on there grasshopper.
That a footballer wants the best deal he can get for himself and his family, hardly makes him any different from the rest of us. The offer last season may well have been derisory for all you know.
No matter how things "appear" or "seem" to the 'throw away the key' mob, nobody really knows what's been offered to who.
Pienaar has been a terrific buy for Everton, if he sees out his contract we'd have still gotten tremendous value for the £2 Million we paid for him; if he goes, we'll probably see a tidy profit too.
This guy will be starring for the host nation in the biggest competition on earth... I don't see putting a few stone throwers out of their misery as being very high on his list of priorities.
It would be no surprise to any of us if the club really need to sacrifice a player to stay solvent; maybe they have decided Pienaar is to be that player. Easily done... simply make him an offer they know he won't accept.
The only thing we really know is that If the BOTH parties really want the contract signed, it will happen.
Your suggestion is nonsense on a pure financial basis.
For the past ten months, Pienaar has been telling us about how Louis told him of Bayern's interest on the training pitch which was ever so flattering and now his agent is holding a gun to our heads with his latest comment.
Graeme Sharp told the Cammel Laird social club back in November in front of Elstone that there is no way Pienaar will sign a new contract and I have never once doubted what he said, but it would be nice to be proved wrong.
Last season we endured the debacle that was Lescott... the will he (of course he will) or won't he... the result: a crap start that hurt our season big time.
This season... Pienaar... another lack-lustre player with no better decision-making than James McFadden (yes, looks the part but he hardly stepped up when Arteta was injured). So I say, cash in now while the going is good... or hope he has an amazing World Cup so that we can hike the price up and cash in, allowing us to buy Defour, Dalmat or Moutinho.
Last year, because of the Lescott bollocks and the timing, we ended up with a mismatched side of youth, over experience and shite. Let's not allow that to happen this year, Mr Moyes!
I think that this refers to the signing-on fee... the valuation of the player is important in terms of what Pienaar gets as a signing-on fee.
There will always be room for improvement salary wise... it stands to good reason that Everton will have gone in low, Pienaar's cash-hungry agent will have gone in high and now it's an argument (or in Everton's case, several months of arguments) to meet in the middle.
Personally, any more than £30k a week is taking the piss, he really isn't that good and hardly sets the world on fire...
Who is holding a gun to whose head here?
It's laughable that people can label Pienaar a greedy bastard when, despite being one of our best and most consistant performers, he isn't amongst the high earners, he`s surely earned that.
If the club want to try to cash in, why don't they have the bollocks to say so? It's always the "greedy players" fault.
I wonder how long Arteta or Cahill would stick around if others were earning far more than them???
Hang on a mo!
Is this the same player who already stated that he wanted to leave everything until AFTER the World Cup so he could concentrate purely on it?
This latest snippet, coupled with Paul Gladwell's bombshell via Sharpey, speaks volumes for me.
I firmly believe we've seen the last of the lad in an Everton shirt!
There may be more to this situation than we know about but, if the main issue is this pay parity, then I find it amazing that we would be prepared to unsettle the team (once more) and risk losing by far our best performer last season just for the sake of a few quid!
Compared to a lot of PL sides, Everton don't pay that well, so if we want to hang onto our little gems then get real DM/BK and give the player what he wants.
Remember – 'tis better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Pienaar has proven his worth to Everton, a replacement has not... so I'd rather keep Pienaar than lose him.
Personally, I am more concerned about interest in Arteta, basically his contract needs to be sorted pronto as City, Spurs and Arsenal will soon be hovering.
Another note regarding Pienaar. I watched Baines last night and IMO thought he had a bit of a stinker — he was not supported, as he is by Pienaar, which often left him open to some quick move footy.
Pienaar's agent Ivan Modia said: 'My guess is that if, by the first match of the 2010 World Cup, we have been unable to take Steven an improved offer, then he will assume that Everton's position is final.
'The club are very busy concluding other players on long-term deals, most of whom have longer to run on their contract than Pienaar.
'That could mean one of three things: Either they wish to conclude other business before making a final offer, or it could mean that they have decided to sell him, or that they are satisfied that Pienaar walks away in 12 months as a free agent.'
To be honest, no I don't. His agent clearly states this to be the case and unless the club refute his claims I have no reason to disbelieve him.
World beater? Maybe not... but, if he goes, Evertonians will realise very quickly how crucial he is to playing the style of football we enjoyed last season.
Besides Paul, do you really have to be a world beater to earn the same wages as Cahill or Jagielka?
-------------------------
James. You've a lot to learn.
--------------------
Absolutely no problem with that, Dave.
What I do have a problem with is someone telling me that I can't call him the greedy, egotistical git that he is, without questioning my enduring relationship with this club.
Simple really.
I suggest Plan A :
1) Don't give in to his demands & attempts to hold the club over a barrel.
2) Let him star in & be the face of SA in the World Cup.
3) Screw every penny we can out of 'Crappy Arry' so he can join the band of mercenaries at White Tart lane.
4) Buy young Steven plenty of those drinks he's so fond off.
5) Fill a car with other overated players like Shaun Wright philips, who think they are underpaid & being "mugged off" (His own word's the other week) at being offered only £70,000 per week!
6) Point the car in a 'Down Sowth' direction & give Pienaar the keys.
If that don't work then we're fucked, as we never have a Plan B!!!
You're the loser, Steven, not EFC.
I'm sure DM will find at least two decent replacements with the money. I would hate to see Pienaar go but his heart won't be in it and I'd hate to see an acrimonious departure (Lescott) that affects the team spirit when other players have/will be committing their futures to this great club.
I would gladly play for Everton for the pittance I earn at present, I absolutely mean that. I don't claim that makes me a great Evertonian, in fact it probably makes me a sad bastard. Walking out to Z-Cars must be the greatest feeling on earth and it angers me, unreasonably I'm sure, that someone will walk away from it for money.
I suppose I must just accept that, with a few exceptions, that this is the difference between players and supporters. I think we are lucky at Everton in that we have some players who take a fan's view. As for Pienaar, let's just get it done.
Whatever happens will happen and contract negotiations will become protracted with a lot of players. All this will make our heads spin. If Peanuts is unhappy let him go. Sure he can play a bit but he's not that good. If he can fetch a good profit, do it and move on to someone younger and eagre who wants to play for Everton.
He's burnt his bridges with the fans and will get stick, if he stays, every time he puts a foot wrong or is perceived to not be trying his best. I would think £10million if we're lucky... maybe £12million tops. Get the lad Noble from West Ham, he's a fine young player.
However, it's not just Everton that suffer from this kind of thing. In recent seasons Arsenal have seen Hleib, Henry and now probably Fabregas leave to go to the Nou Camp. Does that make them a feeder club for Barcelona? Only if you're a Spurs fan wanting to take the piss. But I am sure that Arsenal fans are not too chuffed at the thought of losing another of their star players to Barcelona.
If the worst case scenario for Evertonians happens — i.e. Pienaar & Arteta are transfer targets for some of the richer clubs — then I hope that Moyes follows the example of Wenger. That is to say, don't try and drag things out, leaving us only a couple of weeks before the end of the transfer window to bring in replacements. Try and do a good deal, but as soon as possible so that there is enough time BEFORE the start of the season to bring in any replacements.
And as regards plan B. Sorry this isn't meant to be an anti-Moyes comment — but I would have thought that any manager/coach worth his salt would regard team building as an ongoing thing and would be aware of the up-and-coming players/players coming to the end of their contracts/players available for loan. Isn't that part of the job? For example, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to be aware that Henry has not had the best of seasons at Barca and with the arrival of David Villa, he may well have become 3rd/4th choice. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone coming in for him either a permanent deal or loan? A possibility for Everton? Why not?
On the assumptions that we would get very little for him (like £6-8m), I would strongly recommend we break the bank to offer Pienaar an attractive deal. As others have said, we would have to pay a lot more to get a similar player than we would receive for Pienaar, and that player would still have to settle (Bily...). Pienaar is almost as important to us as Arteta and Cahill, and should be on similar wages if he isn't already.
If his demands are genuinely exorbitant or we just can't afford them, I would keep him for the remaining year of his contract, unless we were going to be able to get a really good deal from someone for him (and by that I mean around £10m, which might give us a chance of signing a decent replacement). And yes, we should avoid selling him to a Prem club if at all possible.
Oh, and I've got no particular grief with Pienaar for wanting to up his pay. And if he thinks he can move to a CL club this summer or next year, I guess that's understandable. It would annoy me a bit though if he was doing a Barmby, asking for the earth on the assumption we can't pay it in order to force an immediate move. Would be interesting to see what happened if we called his possible bluff and offered to pay what he wants...
Basically, Steven Peinaar doesn't owe us anything. Why would he? Because Moyes brought him in when not many others were interested? Fair enough... but Pienaar repaid that by working his socks off for Everton FC. The deal worked out as much for the club as it has done for him.
Now he has one year left on his contract, he is one of out main players and he rightfully wants to be rewarded for that. Can't blame him for that. Even if he will move away because some other club will offer him more in wages or perhaps a shot at the Champions League then fair play to him.If so, I will thank him for the effort he has put him.
Hopefully he stays, if not ... good luck to him
------------------
Jesus, I'd cream myself...
But again, like Joe Cole... he'd be rather beyond our wages budget.
I doubt theres a single person logged on to this site who wouldn't play for Everton for nothing, so if that makes you a sad bastard, you have an awful lot of company... but what if you found yourself, week-in, week-out, playing better, but earning less than "the boys who would bleed blue if you cut em" — the Cahills and the Jagielkas — don't you think you may be tempted to ask for a little of what they are getting?
Mind you, if you do get the nod from Moysie next season and you are named Player of the Season, don't be surprised when the people like Ciaran want to overlook the fabulous contracts given to lesser players and accuse you of being a a greedy egotistical git, for having the temerity to ask for parity... and trust me, you would ask for parity.
Pienaar is not on the same wages as those players because he hasn't renegotiated his contract since he signed..
You asked people above not to speculate... but by suggesting he hasn't been offered the same as Cahill — last year or this year — you're doing exactly that!
You have no idea what he's asking for — or what he's been offered... so how about practising what you preach.
Happy to, but things have moved along since that post and his agent clearly states others are earning more than he's being offered, that's the problem.
Cahill is a favorite with all of us, but don't you think Pienaar would be able to command far more than him anywhere else? Do you not have even the slightest suspicion that the club should be trying a little harder if they really want to keep Pienaar?
There are two parties here and neither is being 100% truthful.
Pienaar may not be a totally innocent party but he certainly isn't as guilty as he is being portrayed on this thread.
I'm too long in the tooth to realise that there are two sides at odds here... But one of them is working for the good of the club, the other is not. So I know what side I'm on... how about you?
As for the details of what he's being offered, I've read the quotes from the agent... and nowhere does it say that he's not been offered as much as the top earners.
Some common sense in a sea of narrow-minded drivel. Pienaar is crucial to our style of play and that is proven by the results in the last two seasons when he's not played.
What is wrong with trying to get the best deal when you are 28/29 and it will be your last big opportunity? Rodwell gets a second new contract in 15 months; Cahill and Arteta being offered new deals less than 2 years after signing their existing deals... Of course Stevie wants some of the action.
The question, of course, is how much does he want? Is it more than the others or similar to them? If it's similar, we should agree and sign him up. If his demands are off the radar, then we can't and should not go there.
We'll probably never know the numbers, but we do know he's done us proud so far, so lay off the personal insults, boys. You really don't know what you are talking about and look silly as a result of it.
I think this is pretty accurate from Wikipedia:
"The term football club is the most commonly used for a sports club which is an organised or incorporated body with a president, committee and a set of rules responsible for ensuring the continued playing existence of one or more teams which are selected for regular competition play (and which may participate in several different divisions or leagues)."
We are not Everton Football Club, we are supporters of Everton Football Club.
If I were you, I'd man up and apologise.
-----------------
Once you prove me wrong, I might.
I don't consider any transient employees or guardians to be 'Everton' - I do however consider the fans to be a huge part of it.
ps: It'll take more than a wishy-washy generslised wilkepedia definition of club structure to change my opinion on this.
I can live with that, but why blame our need to sell to survive on Pienaar? He will merely be this summer's sacrificial lamb.
There`ll be another next season and guess what? It`ll be the players fault again
-------------------------
You've no idea how much he's been offered. So again, your speculation on whether this represents his 'worth' —- and the motives of the board — are pure guesswork...
The best interests of the club is getting the most value for our money — I would've thought that was pretty self-explanatory... and where opinion is invited I will always come down in favour of those who are working for the best interests of the club. It's a rather obvious position for me — whatever way you choose to cut it.
As for Pienaar, it's a bitter pill to swallow but he's perfectly entitled to do whatever he wants with his contract and future. The club (not you or I, Ciaran) make him an offer for what they believe his services warrant in the best interests of the club and he accepts or declines, just like any other form of employment.
I'm sure that's what grown-ups do anyway.
Employees of the club make him an offer.
With Barcelona, David Villa is now the main man. Who knows, maybe Barca don't want to lose him completely — a loan deal could therfore be in the interests of all parties and Barca might be willing to pay part of his salary.
As I said, it's just an example of the kind of deal that could be considered. Given the fickle nature of the likes of Real Madrid, Barcalona and other Spanish clubs, there are several players once in the "superstar" bracket that are surplus to requirements, sometimes due to a change in club President. Huntelaar and Robben at Real Madrid being two examples.
And, after all, wasn't Pienaar seen as being a "failure" at Borussia Dortmund and they wanted to ofload him? It's surely worthwhile Moyes being aware of other players that are now in that situation.
When all the players have gone, let's hope you haven't worn out that accusing finger of yours, because even you will realise that the people "acting in the best interest of the club" are the very reason we are in this position. Years of doing sweet FA have put us here.
"The people acting in the best interest of the club" have criminally allowed this club to fall into such a state of decay, not only can we not bring players in, but we can't hang on to the ones we`ve got.
But hey, it doesn't matter that ordinary players up and down the country earn more, if a player isn't prepared to sign for considerably less to play for one of the Prems most incompetent, least ambitious boards... they must be greedy bastards.
Dave,
Again you're running around in circles avoiding the point being made... Firstly, you stated that he hadn't been offered what Cahill was on, then you brought up the rather abstract notion of 'worth' — you are wrong on boths counts — by virtue of the fact that you don't have the slightest clue what Mr Pienaar has been offered.
To suggest I am ignoring the failings of the guardians of this club is a rather erroneous and ludicrous side-step around the issue... Because you'll find it hard to find someone who agrees with you more on that point.
But on this issue, you're simply being presumptuous — and using that presumption to come out on the side of a player. Where we differ on this issue is that I'm coming out on the side of those negotiating for the club..
We as supporters support them in doing this – which is why we're called supporters – support who may or may not help them compete with other clubs in this activity.
But he's going to New York. Red Bulls have been after him since he left Arsenal, even matched Barca's money in negotiations. Now, with 3/4 million French-speaking Africans in NY, Red Bulls' fantastic new facility, and 2010 being Henry's last WC, plus his age, he's going to America.
Imagine him, though, coming off the bench in the blue shirt. Opponents shitting. Ciaran creaming.
NO-ONE commenting on this site knows what is going on and a lot of baseless assumptions are being made too hastily for my peace of mind. He was our most consistent player over the past season and, even though his contract is 'up in the air', he has never shirked or sulked in any game I have seen him play in.
He is a consummate professional and a credit to the game... he has been fouled more than anyone this season and for my money I really want him to stay. I am sure he will be 'high profile' in this coming World Cup as he makes sure he is always involved in any match he plays in.
He does NOT make easy square passes and enjoys running with the ball as he is a very confident individual... Baines has blossomed with Pienaar's support and Baines's game has come on a lot since he formed an understanding with Pienaar. I don't believe Baines would be in the England squad without the help of Pienaar in developing his game and improving his confidence.
If Pienaar is not earning the same money as Cahill and Arteta, then I do not blame him for making his stand because I reckon he is worth it. If there is something more he wants then that is another matter and until EFC clarify the situation (which I am sure they will not)... it is all just conjecture!!!
From what I've heard from his agent, he said he wants his future sorted before the World Cup; them no, not now, but after... and presently, he wants it sorted before the World Cup. Make up your bloody mind!
I think people are making stuff up to back up their opinion here. My opinion (based on assumptions which may not be true) is that when we first signed him, a game of brinkmanship was played so he got a good wage. Of course, he shouldn't moan about what he's being paid — he agreed to it — no slave labour here.
Now, EFC believe they can pay him less than the top earners and they're calling his bluff as they don't think his earning potential will rocket after the World Cup and, even if SA have a great World Cup and it does, the transfer value on his head will increase.
His agent speaks about 3 options, why taking longer than other players — how about a 4th option: others are easier to negotiate with as they are more than willing to sign for the club.
EFC need to offer him a salary equal to our highest paid players; let's be honest, he is one of our best players (if he accepts, great) and if he rejects then, yes, by all means bleed him dry for every bean in a transfer... surely we could get at least £10m in this still overinflated market?
As for other players that have been mentioned, Cole, Henry etc Seriously? The former is never gonna join a team up north and the latter would be more suited to basketball or GAA. And besides, there isn't a chance in hell that players on that type of payscale will sign for the Blues — we are like a third world country when it comes to paying wages.
Oh and Ciaran and Dave — get a room...
I do not expect South Africa to accomplish anything against any of the teams they're grouped with. Don't you think they know that "everything went through Pienaar" in the Con Cup? They all have excellent defensive midfielders who can, and will, hound Pienaar's every step.
I stand by my opinion — I think Pienaar's value will be lower after the World Cup, not higher, and there is no reason for Everton not to wait. If he really wants to stay with us, then (no matter what his agent says) something can be worked out later this summer. And if he doesn't, there is plenty of time to sell him then.
I don't think he would be asking for money outside the existing pay structure. What would be the point? If he wants to go, then plenty of clubs are interested in him so why not just go? He would then get more money if that is his prime motive.
Something stinks here. He should be one of the top earners at the club. Did the club not make him Player of the Season. So why are they not offering him top money... and my guess is they are not?
I know we are only guessing as to what is going on but my gut feelings now are that the club are starting to look a bit shady. I suspect that they are not offering him parity with the other top earners. If that is the case, then the club may have decided to cash in and this is just a smoke screen in order to sell one of our best players and not upset the fans. We all know that they are going to have to sell to buy. Moyes only had the Lescott cash last year.
I'm not assuming anything, but I'm basing my opinion on the facts that are available to us.
Pienaar was offered a contract last year but chose not to sign it; today, we are told he is and has been earning less money than other players... is it not logical to believe that, although he was offered improved terms, he was not offered parity; and if he was, why doesn't somebody at the club refute the statement ?
While the club remain silent, we have to try to piece together what is actually happening here.
Sticking a wet finger in the air and declaring him a greedy bastard without anything to back it up doesn't strike me as being open-minded.
If this prick of an agent is talking out of his rear end, why do the club remain silent?
How exactly is it logical? And how exactly is that a fact?
Pienaar's agent is playing it by the big book of "get as much money out of the fuckers as possible" — and you're still trying to pull facts out of your ass to prove Pienaar's being ill-treated...
Do me a favour Dave. He's a footballer, and he's playing the game.
I question the right even the wisdom, of anybody - who by their own admission, know nothing about these negotiations - to brand one of the parties a greedy bastard.
Pienaar and his agent are two different people.
If I ever find myself in the dock, I hope to fuck you`re not on the jury.
Oh and BTW ; These people who you claim are acting in the best interest of the club . . .who are they ?
Cut off the cancer. COYB
Bollocks.
You've danced around this, telling people not to presume - and all you've done is presume, and then deny you did it. Now you're denying you stated Pienaar was being ill-treated ...when you quite categorically stated that the club were angling to offer him less than he's was 'worth' in order to flog him..
I haven't asked people to presume - therefore by presuming, I'm not being a hypocrite - I have absolutely no problem on presuming on the greed of footballers...And guess what - i'm normally bloody right.
We had the same shit last year...with the usual naive people thinking that Lescott was going to stay...Guess what, he didn't. And it was obvious a mile away - and this one's pretty obvious too.
And to suggest that Steven's agent is not working to Steven's agenda is just nonsense...Two people indeed. One agenda!
Whatever his reasons for wanting to leave....he has been our most consistent player and never shirks in any game he plays.
If any player at the club is earning more than Pienar it is WRONG and I do not blame him if all he is seeking is parity.
We will never get the truth either from the player or the club and this stupid matter should be closed.
1) I have never said Pienaar has been ill treated,
2) I have said lesser players have earned more.
Try to understand theres a fucken difference.
Pienaar and his agent do want the same thing, but your nailing Pienaar for statements his Agent is making.
You and I want the same thing - success for Everton - but I would be greatly distressed if somebody associated me with some of the shite you come out with.
If Pienaar is the greedy bastard you make him out to be, the idea of cashing in would be the most presumptuous of all. He will Merely dig his heels, refuse to go anywhere for the next 9 months, then negotiate a signing on fee beyond his wildest . . . . whether you, or the clowns you say are acting in the clubs best interest like it or not
Dave Wilson: Paul
To be honest, no I don't. His agent clearly states this to be the case and unless the club refute his claims I have no reason to disbelieve him.
Dave Wilson: his agent clearly states others are earning more than he's being offered, that's the problem.
--------------------------
His agent didn't state this. So wrong on count number one.
-----------------------------------------
Dave Wilson: do you think offering a man considerably less than he's worth in the hope that another club will come in with the sort of offer that will keep the wolves from the door for another season is acting in the best interest of the club?
---------------------------------
This is YOU, quite categorically suggesting that Pienaar is being ill-treated by the club. You are producing your presumptive opinion as a fact..
So, on count number two....er...wrong.
Dave, at least admit your own words. You're getting rather silly...
Point 2) The clue is in the question mark. its clearly my opinion, my belief . . but where do I present it as fact ?
Besides if you think a club deciding to unload a player constitutes ill treatment either most of the players who have ever been transferred have been ill treated, or your talking some more of that shite.
Ill treatment ? are you serious ? these players can be set for life in one move . . I wish to fuck somebody would ill treat me like that
£5m and Jamie O hara is probably about right. Not totally convinced by Ohara but good left foot, young and Moyes type player.
Or straight swap with Bentley?
Trouble is only a year left on his contract means we're not really calling the shots.
You aint half wriggling here...You can always tell when you're struggling - you resort to telling people they always talk shite. A predictable invective.
Perhaps you can find that quote from the agent...
Are you telling me the Yak deserves to be paid more than him, or even Saha who is constantly injured?? Heitinga came in on £60k a week before he even kicked a ball... I don't see why we can't put Pienaar on the same money knowing how influential he is. In any other working environment, he would be walking away as he the best worker is getting paid lower than other lazy, not as good people in his "office".
I personally don't think he is, he is a great player but not "World Class" and I doubt that any side in teh Sky 4 would want him, so the Champions League is out of the question for an English side.
He may go back abroad, let him I say. He is not irreplaceable, no one is but don't for one minute think greed has nothing to do with it, of course it does, he want's more, which is the very deffinition of greed, wanting more than what you have already.
I bet if he does stay and gets a massive increase that "His God" won't see an effing penny of it.
I for one hope he does stay as playing wise he is a breath of fresh air and I just hope that, if he does, people don't give him a hard time for wanting to be paid the same as people who haven't performed as well as him and in most supporter's eyes are not going to in the future.
The guy is coming to his prime... For god's sake offer him the same as the top earners and publicly say so. If he wants more, come out and say he wants more than the top earners and then sell him. Case closed.
Throw 'Arry Yobo too for good measure!
Sam - there is an argument that he could send Bentley our way (good player but not on my Xmas list) but dont think that'll happen either - having him on the bench at Sp*rs offers great cover.
Will he stay or will he go......? My bet now is he goes for £9m.
And what about this for a posuer, Eduardo to replace The Yak? Both are reasonably priced and would give EFC a new dimension.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.


1 Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:24:41
Report abuse
Following Cahill's contract extension, the likely deal to tie up Rodwell, and Arteta's apparent comittment to Everton, that would leave Pienaar as the player most likely to depart. Pienaar has undoubtedly had an exceptional season for Everton but – with a year remaining on his contract, the forthcoming World Cup and his age – Pienaar may consider that he has one last big-money move.
After being linked with Joao Moutinho for what seems like an eternity and after watching his performance for Sporting against Everton, my preference would be to target Moutinho if Pienaar sees his future elsewhere. He has all the attributes that Moyes targets in a player and his flair and creativity alongside Arteta, Rodwell, Heitinga, Fellaini would be frightening!