The Mail Bag

What to do with Pienaar?

Comments (144)

He has been a brilliant player for us, he really has. He is central to the football that we want to play. He keeps it on the ground, lots of short passes and never stops running. He is probably at his peak.

What I am thinking is that next season is our best chance to reach the top-4. If we fail this season, I feel we will be waiting another generation to reach it.

I get the feeling that many people agree with this sentiment. So, with that in mind, What to do with regards to Pienaar's contract?

If we keep him, and risk losing him for free next season, at least we will keep him in our most important of seasons.

If we sell him, get £10-14 million, we need to replace him. And this replacement needs to settle immediately. When buying a player, there is always the risk that they won't be any good. Can we afford that risk?

We need to sign a right-sided midfielder. Can we really expect to sign two wide players in one summer, have them settle, and be at the level we need them to be?

Ideally he will sign a new contract. But, if this doesn't happen, what should we do?

I would keep him, go for it and risk losing him for free. If we finish 4th or higher, he will happily stay, and we will be able to afford a new contract. If not, it will be a bugger to lose him for nothing, but we will survive.
Fran Mitchell, Liverpool     Posted 24/05/2010 at 12:56:47

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Peter Laing
1   Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:24:41

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The perennial newspaper tittle-tattle has once again began in ernest with the likes of Arteta, Rodwell and Pienaar attracting speculation from the red-tops.

Following Cahill's contract extension, the likely deal to tie up Rodwell, and Arteta's apparent comittment to Everton, that would leave Pienaar as the player most likely to depart. Pienaar has undoubtedly had an exceptional season for Everton but – with a year remaining on his contract, the forthcoming World Cup and his age – Pienaar may consider that he has one last big-money move.

After being linked with Joao Moutinho for what seems like an eternity and after watching his performance for Sporting against Everton, my preference would be to target Moutinho if Pienaar sees his future elsewhere. He has all the attributes that Moyes targets in a player and his flair and creativity alongside Arteta, Rodwell, Heitinga, Fellaini would be frightening!

Elgin Joshua
2   Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:24:00

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The problem is keeping him and risk the distraction. My main thoughts would be that and not losing him for nothing next season.

Once you get people who want to leave the club, it tends to influence the rest to look for greener pastures.

I would suggest letting him go now. Don't want it to turn all Lescott-esque. I don't think we would fetch £10m though. The suspicion would be £8m. Hope I am wrong.
Giles Larkman
3   Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:24:03

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Sell him, bid for Moutinho. We'd be kicking ourselves if he had a crappy season and then he left for nowt. If he can't pay us back then we need to get a good price for him now. He is replaceable and in my mind Heitinga was our true Player of the Season!
Brian Williams
4   Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:26:25

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Pienaar is quoted as having said something like "our valuations are different"....Now if this is true it's almost a certainty that Everton won't/can't go any higher.

I think the talk of £14-18 million for him is ridiculous to be honest. I think we'd be very lucky to get ten!

So I see the decision David Moyes having to make is... If I keep Pienaar for the last year of his present contract, is that going to be worth ten million pounds (or whatever bid, if there are any that is) that's received?

If Moyes receives a bid that he feels is worth more to the club than Pienaar's services for a year, then it's bye bye Steven (presuming he'd go to the bidder of course).

Don't underestimate David Moyes's ruthlesness if Pienaar decides he wants to hold out and play hardball. He (Moyes) may just decide (if a bid comes in) that the amount is worth more to the club than a year of Pienaar!

Don't get too greedy, Steven!
Martin Mason
5   Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:38:31

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He's going and Everton's best bet is to get what they can for him. Economic craziness to keep him for a year and let him walk away for free. He is a twat and he has broken any bond he had with us. God bless Mikel Arteta and the others. Bye Bye Stevie.
Kevin Gillen
6   Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:36:55

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One volunteer is better than ten pressed men.

I think Everton will make one last bid to improve their offer then sadly have to give in to the overtures of Pienaar's Mr 10%. I must admit that, much as I'd like to keep him because he is no doubt an exceptional talent, the thought of him playing out his contract in front of our fans fills me with dread.

The worst possible scenario will see him playing out his current contract on the bench or in the treatment room. Better to have some honesty about his intentions so we all know where we stand and he gets sold immediately after the World Cup and we get sufficient time to find some sort of replacement.

Spurs obviously like the look of him and Harry has been known to splash the cash although I for one will never forgive him for selling us those two duck eggs Williamson and Bilic. As for a replacement, Marin, Moutinho come to mind but realistically his departure is going to weaken the project.

Dan Brierley
7   Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:24:09

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So how about we lose him for nothing, and don't qualify for the CL? Then we are £15 million down. And is he going to be fully committed to the cause knowing he is leaving? How about the effect on other players in the dressing room? Too much of a gamble as far as I am concerned, get rid now.
Colin Potter
8   Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:54:39

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Get rid of him now. Try and get as much as we can for him. I think he has shot himself in the foot with the fans.

I would go all out for Marin, to me he has a streak of Alan Ball in him.

Brendan O'Doherty
9   Posted 24/05/2010 at 14:59:39

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'If we finish 4th or higher, he will happily stay..'

I don't think so. This seems to be about wages, not ambition. He's not going to be offered the money he wants with us, so it's better to get rid now while we can still get a reasonable fee.
Paul Gladwell
10   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:05:12

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Get shut of him, the man appears to be craving a move by his wordings.
We dragged him out of the shit and deserve more from him.
Joseph Elworthy
11   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:08:09

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Pienaar has been an excellent footballer for the club, but I honestly cringe at some of his on-field antics (to say nothing of the off-field business). In my opinion, his footballing style, age, and stature make him a probable candidate for serious injury. If we keep him, it will end in heartache one way or another. Sell and move on.
Craig Taylor
12   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:14:25

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He has to be commited to the cause. I can't believe he is being offered less than Rodwell, and he isn't worth much more.

If we have a chance of Moutinho then sell Pienaar and get the lad. As for needing a Right midfielder, either Donovan or someone already in England would be my way around settling in issues.
James Marshall
13   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:17:56

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All this bitterness towards players when they leave is out of order. The guy has been here a few years so good luck to him if he wants to play somewhere else.

Small minded bitterness is a plague on our society, and nowhere is it more rife than in the minds of fickle football fans.

Pienaar has done nothing wrong, yet so many people are laying into him.
Franny Porter
14   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:22:21

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People are laying into him, James, as he is just another example of the greedy disloyal modern-day footballer we are now seeing all too often.

His career was going nowhere when Moyes gave him a break, he has admitted as much himself. How does he repay the manager and the club? By asking for astronomical wages to no doubt force a transfer.

In my opinion, no matter how good he is, if he does not want to stay, fuck him off and get we can asap.

He wants to wait till after the World Cup? Tough shit, fuck him off now as miserable players can spread dissent through a squad.

One last thing, as good as he is, he is not irreplaceable, he dosnt score enough for a start.

He's on the list...

Ciarán McGlone
15   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:44:51

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Hmmmmm... what to do with Pienaar?

I suppose incarcerating him in Rupert Tower is out of the question...
Charlie Percival
16   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:45:33

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In

Petrov - free
Ireland - £5 mill
Donovan - £10 mill
Joe Cole - free (signing on fee a la Kanchelskis)

Out

Pienaar - £15 mill

Let Pienaar go this summer, he won't want to put 50% effort in if we keep him another season on his "measley" contract.

Let's hope he doesn't break a leg in the World Cup coz then we will be fucked.
Ciarán McGlone
17   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:45:39

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"Pienaar has undoubtedly had an exceptional season for Everton"
---------------------

He – like most other players – had a decent spell for two-thirds of the season.

He couldn't string a pass together for the first two months.

So, your suggestion is doubted.
James Marshall
18   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:49:50

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That's fantasy land, Charlie. If Joe Cole comes anywhere near Everton (on a free!!), I'll stand outside the Shankly Gates wearing a red shite shirt, singing You'll Never Walk Alone at the top my my voice!
Charlie Percival
19   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:46:17

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Also, WE CAN'T SELL him to a rival. Let him go to Spain or Italy (if anyone wants him there). City have been buying all their challengers' best players, even if they won't play the players, just to get into the top four. If he does play against us next season at Goodison, all I can say is... HERE'S JOHNNY! Leg breaker incoming from Heitinga.

Alternatively, give him 60k a week now, value shoots up. sell him after the World Cup for £20-25 mill rather than the £10-15 mill we would get for him with one year left.

Two can play that game!
Charlie Percival
20   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:53:15

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James, he's no better than Moutinho (over the past 2 or 3 years) .... so why are we talking of Moutinho? Arteta's on a par with him, if not better. I think we are definitely within Joe Cole's radar. Also, Joe Cole loves football and seems to have a sensible head on him...
Jimmy Fazackerley
21   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:38:24

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I think that Moyes should bring this to a head and announce that Pienaar is for sale and invite offers for him. EFC should stop being reactive and put the ball in his court and start looking for a replacement.
James Marshall
22   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:53:03

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Would I be right in saying we only paid about £2M for Pienaar? Whats the mooted fee for him now? Gotta be £6-8M I'd say?

As for the player:

On his talks at Goodison Park, Pienaar, who is out of contract next year, explained: 'I'd say the spirit of discussions was very good, but we have differing valuations, so my future isn't clear.

'I don't know. Everton may keep me for the last year of my deal, but they could sell me too.

'If they decide to sell, and the move is correct for my career, then I'll consider it.

'Hopefully this hasn't been my last season at Goodison but in football, who knows?'

Seems reasonable.
Mike Gaynes
23   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:45:52

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I love the Pocket Rocket, but he needs to get his head screwed on straight regarding his value. Maybe his wanting to wait until after the World Cup is a good thing. The fact is that South Africa doesn't remotely belong in the tournament, and after being spanked by France, Mexico and Uruguay, they will be the first host team not to make the round of 16. Pienaar is expecting the World Cup to increase his value, but the reverse could be true if SA goes out without scoring a goal... which is a distinct possibility.

I think Moyes should do nothing until the tournament is over, and let's see where Pienaar's brain is. Maybe his self-valuation will be a little more reasonable.
James Marshall
24   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:57:14

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Charlie; I admire your optimism, but Joe Cole is a London boy and won't move to Everton in a million years. Besides, Ancellotti has publically stated that he won't sell him. Why would he come to us when he could go to a Champions League/top 4 club?? The only way he'd move north would be to Utd or the RS if they were in the CL.

As for his level head — well he lives near my sister and I can assure you, he's well regarded down here as being a massive nobhead in every respect!
Ciarán McGlone
25   Posted 24/05/2010 at 15:56:27

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Charlie,

Your suggestion is nonsense on a pure financial basis.
Ray Said
26   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:09:00

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I don't get all the abuse that Pienaar is now taking. He came here and did a great job in exchange for a salary, not because of love of the club — it's only the fans who love the club, everyone else just works for the club.

He is one of the players that always bust a gut for the team, never shirked a challenge or failed to track back and when he was on song... boy, he played some great stuff. We have always had a good week's work from the lad in exchange for his pay and that is all you can ask from any employee.

If he now thinks he can get a better deal elsewhere, then I have no problems with that — especially as we have the news early enough to get a decent fee, make a nice profit and have time to source a replacement.

This is the business we are in: players come and players go but the club endures. Let's just hope that the lad who fills Pienaar's shirt will work just as hard for the club. It's the shirt that counts, not who is inside it.

Mike Allison
27   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:12:21

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I love Pienaar and would rather he stayed, I always find it odd that our players can be so vitriolically slagged off once there's a mention of them leaving.

If he's going he MUST be replaced by a similar match winner. We have two special players who can create at will, Pienaar and Arteta, these are our two most important men. If we lose one of them it must be for enough money and with a good enough player lined up to replace him.

I would put a price on him, say £15M, and if someone offers it, in cash, up front, sell (even if its Man City). If not, keep him for the extra season and send the message that we can't be held to ransom. The other huge issue is whether we sell him to a club who has underperforming players, and they can be part of a deal. I'm thinking someone like Bentley or Ireland plus cash (or as mentioned above, preferably someone from a team in Spain so Pienaar isn't helping one of our rivals).
Charlie Percival
28   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:26:45

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James Marshall, Why did Rodwell, Cahill (and hopefully Arteta) sign a new contract when they could have gone to a Champions League club?

Your argument is contradictory.
Tony J Williams
29   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:37:43

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Well, this particular poster will have a large smile on his face if we booted Stevie into touch and somehow managed to scrape the rest of the money together to get Moutinho. Younger, better version of Pienaar.
Steve Hopkins
30   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:40:36

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@ Charlie; Level-headed Joe Cole may be, we can't prove that one way or the other... but I can assure you that he is earning and would expect an awful lot more money a week than we could ever offer him and could easily command a signing-on fee of nearly half of any Pienaar transfer fee.

It'll never happen in a million years, he'd never get past Arsenal or Spurs on his way up north!
Fran Mitchell
31   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:40:04

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Charlie. Joe Cole is on about £100k at Chelsea, wages that could be offered by other clubs.

If wages are the reason for Pienaar's situation, how do you think we can pay Cole's wage?

Also, £5 million for Ireland. If possible, I'd bite their hands off; however, it'll be closer to £15 million — even if he ain't first choice (for some reason, the over-rated Barry is above him in the team).

Here's one for ya: How about Reira from the shite? He's a quality player who had a bad time at a club. Sounds very Moyes-esque. He's quick, a left winger and wouldn't it be great to see him do well and be able to rub the red shite noses in the fact that they gave him to us?
Jay Harris
32   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:33:49

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Quote from one of the Blackpool players after winning promotion and being asked about the bonus the players would all get:

"The money doesn't matter. You couldn't buy the feeling of being out there (in the play-off final)."

Compare that to Pienaar's pouting and posturing over the contract negotiations.

It's a real shame that absolute greed is ruining the game.

I am sure Pienaar is angling towards getting a free at the end of his contract so he can demand huge wages or a big signing-on fee.

Sell him now and get what we can.
Fran Mitchell
33   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:52:56

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I thought Moutinho was a central midfielder a la Arteta rather than an attacking mid/winger.. .how is he a replacement for Pienaar?
Fran Mitchell
34   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:55:34

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To be fair to Pienaar, he has said since he arrived that he wants to play CL footy. He has never lied or pretended to be loyal or blue blooded.

He's a South African, who lived in Holland for 5-6 years and signed for Everton.

What commands him to be loyal to Everton?

If you hate disloyatly so much, why advocate the signing of Moutinho. Suely if he left Sporting that would be disloyal. Why is Donovan not being loyal to the US league that has supported him for so long? Why is Beckford being so disloyal to leeds?

Nobody talks of loyalty and lack thereof when players sign for Everton, or indeed when we sell them a la Johnson. Why?

It's called ambition.

The fact that people get so angry at greed is beyond me. Yes, it's disgraceful but does it actually shock you? If we couldn't afford to offer a 19-year-old £30k, we would be calling him disloyal today. Did he not sign a contract last summer? Yet he has shown his loyalty?!?!?! Loyalty would have been staying despite the increase in wage, wouldn't it?
Trevor Lynes
35   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:59:09

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Pienaar has played his heart out for us and always gives 100%... he has been thoroughly professional and wants to be paid as much as our top earners... what on earth is wrong with that???? I hope he stays and we ADD to our staff to be able to maintain and improve our position in the Premier League...
James Marshall
36   Posted 24/05/2010 at 17:06:38

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Charlie:

"James Marshall, Why did Rodwell, Cahill (and hopefully Arteta) sign a new contract when they could have gone to a Champions League club?

Your argument is contradictory"

Rodwell has been smart enough to stay for at least another year — had he signed for a top 4 club, he'd have spent the vast majority of his time warming the bench. With us, he gets to play.

Long-term contracts mean nothing — don't be fooled. Clubs/players sign them so they can sell players a year or so later for a higher price. Don't be fooled into believing that he'll stay for 5 years.

Cahil wouldn't have been able to sign for any top 4 club. None of them would have signed him because he's too old and doesn't fit in with the way any of them play. He can't pass, doesn't work particularly hard, but does do his job well — that job is at Everton where his role is clear, not any one of the top 4 clubs has ever taken an interest in him as far as I'm aware. I dispute your assumption massively.

As for Arteta, well that's pure speculation because he's neither signed a new deal, nor has he been tapped up by anyone else so I don't see that I've contradicted myself in the slightest.

With respect, you're falling into that trap of assumption being the mother of all fuck-ups!

James Marshall
37   Posted 24/05/2010 at 17:12:53

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Fran — well said mate. Good post. All good points well made. It's bollocks all this whinging about players leaving. If I got offered more money to do the same job I do now, for a better company with more chance of bigger things, I'd take it, and so would everyone that's moaning about Pienaar leaving now.

It's so misplaced, it's untrue.
Charlie Percival
38   Posted 24/05/2010 at 17:13:01

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Contracts are worth nothing... then you say... Clubs get players on a contract to command a higher price (you've contradicted yourself).

Cahill is NOT TOO OLD. He CAN pass. Works hard... And yes, he DOES do his job WELL. If he couldn't, he wouldn't be a professional footballer playing in the top top league for a top club. These players get weeded out early in their careers or after failing in a promising career. So don't give me that tripe. Suppose you'll be saying he can't head next...

Cahill would have been able to sign for a Champions League playing side, I never said it had to be England. Even so, I speak to Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea fans, and they would all love him in their side. Maybe you need to change those SVEN glasses you use to watch the games he plays in.
Fran Mitchell
39   Posted 24/05/2010 at 17:13:02

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Mike Gaynes;

Did you watch the Confederations Cup last summer? SA were excellent, beaten by Brazil in the semi because of a very late Alves strike.

They then played excellently against 'best team in the world', Spain, losing 3-2 in an excellent match which they were very unlucky not to win (a Spain sub scored two very late goals to make it 2-1 before an even later goal took it to extra time). Pienaar received rave reviews, playing down the middle, all the play went through him.

I believe SA will qualify from the group, they are at least level with both Mexico and Uraguay and are playing at home.
Charlie Percival
40   Posted 24/05/2010 at 17:25:09

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Agreed Fran. Pienaar pulled the strings against Brazil in what I saw and he looked like he was playing on the wrong side!
James Flynn
41   Posted 24/05/2010 at 16:01:28

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Understand the passion in here but agree with James (13). Pienaar's done very well for his employer and wants a pay raise. Just like us, isn't he? Oh, except it's a lot more difficult for him to move from job to job than it is for us, his skills have a definate shelf-life, and there is near-zero chance of his moving into a line of work that pays anywhere near what football does. I doubt he's doing anything most footballers wouldn't do or haven't done; including any of us if we were in his shoes.

The guy's done well for us these last 3 seasons. He just wants a pay raise. Moyes will or won't pay him and that's that. If he stays, great. He's a good player. If he goes, it's too bad but not the end of the world. He's not exactly Rooney leaving

The question here is posed by Fran and I agree with his last paragraph. Just keep Pienaar until the contract runs out because:

1. Next season, we're in the mix for the Premiership and he's a good footballer. We could use him.

2. All the financial pressure resulting from playing out his contract is on Steven, not the club. If he wants more money than EFC's offering in 2011-2012, he has to show he's worth it. Excelling for a Trophy contender is the best way to do that.

3. Him jaking it next season if Moyes won't pay him is a complete non-starter. Pretending injury or other disruptive behavior will hurt his perceived value, not increase it. Especially for a, by then, 30-year-old wife-beating, drunk-driving, Jesus slinger.

4. For God's sake, the EPL teams that could buy him are the same ones competing with us for Top 4 next year. Better to keep him on the bench than let a player as good as him go to one of our competitors for honors.


Let's get Areta done, work a way for Landon to come back, and announce a suspension of Pienaar's negotiation until after next season so as to not distract from everyone's (Pienaar's too after all) desire to secure Top 4 and challenge for the League Trophy itself.
Jimmy Hacking
42   Posted 24/05/2010 at 17:59:32

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I say sell him, and wish him all the best. I really am having trouble understanding the mean-spirited viewpoint many seem to share of this player/situation...

This is a player we bought for peanuts and could now flog for about £12 mill... who had had two decent seasons, a good season and an outstanding one... Thanks, Steven, for the memories and good luck in the future.

He's not an Evertonian, he's an ambitious professional.
Alan Clarke
43   Posted 24/05/2010 at 18:06:56

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Pienaar plays well for us in one position — on the left. Anywhere else in the team and he disappears. Let him go and discover that he's not actually that good. He is just incredibly well suited to one position in the system Everton play.
John McLoughlin
44   Posted 24/05/2010 at 18:16:58

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Pienaar is a good player and I don't want him to leave; however, we'll get by without him..., we always do. Players move and life goes on. As far as I am concerned, he is definitely leaving; if it's for CL reasons fair enough, I have no problem with that.

If it's just money alone, I will be disappointed, not that I blame someone leaving for bigger money, just for all the religious stuff he comes out with. A la God is Great so money shouldn't be his main motivator. I envisage a big season next year for Bily so I'd like to get LD in for the RW. As for Joe Cole he would be great but as he wants £100k per week that's a non-starter.

Dennis Stevens
45   Posted 24/05/2010 at 18:16:07

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I hope the club offer no more than we can afford & if that's no accepted then we'll see if his agent can tempt anybody to offer megabucks for him — I have to say I have my doubts on that score. Should we receive an attractive offer then sell him, otherwise he stays & plays.
Brian Williams
46   Posted 24/05/2010 at 18:27:49

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Somebody said "it's not as if it's a Rooney situation"!..............

.....what if it's very similar.....very similar indeed!!!
Ian McDowell
47   Posted 24/05/2010 at 18:23:27

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Hopefully a bit of honesty, Moyes and Kenwright can sit down and discuss the best offer the club can afford. They meet Pienaar and let him know this is the best offer the club can make at the current time and ask for a quick response.

Pienaar then will make his decision and either tell the club he would like to stay for one more year and then leave on a Bosman or he would like to move on to a foreign club or a Champions League club this summer.

We can then either have a go at making the top 4 with Pienaar for one more year and he would get a lucrative contract when he is available on a free, or we can negotiate a good fee for him this summer.

I hope he stays, but I'm pretty sure we could have seen his last game for Everton.
Andy Burke
48   Posted 24/05/2010 at 18:32:38

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I can't believe some of the stick that Pienaar is getting on here.

Before all of this debacle, I read that he was looking to be in line with the clubs top earners. Personally, I think he is easily worth the same wages as Arteta and Cahill and if I was him I too would be hanging out for that.

He has busted his balls this season and deserves a good contract.
Paul Gladwell
49   Posted 24/05/2010 at 18:44:59

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"Cahill does not work hard!" — Heard some shite in my time but if there is one thing this fella does it`s work his bollocks off. You slag him, a player who has burst his guts for this club, and back a player who has been trying to instigate himself a big move for at least a year.
Mike Gwyer
50   Posted 24/05/2010 at 18:31:17

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This post has been a good read but unfortunately some of us need a reality check. I mean, "Joe Cole coming to EFC" — that is a giggle.

Regarding Pienaar, for me, the guy is going to go (eventually). He wants more money, which to me EFC may have... but they will not want to upset other senior playing staff (who will want consistency — i.e. Arteta).

The main issue EFC will have is that quite a few players have stuck with their club knowing that a good pay day is only 12 months away — Joe Cole being one of them.

Personally, I think we will see Pienaar next year, but it will be his last.
Charlie Percival
51   Posted 24/05/2010 at 19:08:21

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Paul Gladwell, thank god I'm not the only person who sees Cahill for what he is.

He's our next Big Dunc in my eyes, if not already.
Andy Crooks
52   Posted 24/05/2010 at 19:09:55

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Pienaar is an ok player and I'd be happy if he stayed. He does, however, seem like a hypocritical, sanctimonious, two-faced, money-grabbing sack of shit. This has a 'last day of the season' look about it. Moyes and Kenwright will deal with it with their usual summer magic.
Fran Mitchell
53   Posted 24/05/2010 at 19:18:07

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Andy.

What has he said that is hypocritical?

And an ok player????? One would think that if he was an ok player this thread would have had about 10 responses with a "who cares?" nature to them. Your passion seems evidence to show he's more than an 'ok' player
Paul Gladwell
54   Posted 24/05/2010 at 19:23:19

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Charlie, I loved the big fella, he gave us something to smile about in dark times, and Cahill will prove a bigger legend than him. You don't appreciate players like these until they are gone.

I won't shed any tears for Pienaar and he will just be a name that is registered as playing for us — nothing else; he is a great little player, no world beater. We have lost far better players and will sign far better players.

Mike Elbey
55   Posted 24/05/2010 at 19:09:08

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Alan, absolutely spot on. Pienaar looks a great player at Everton because the system we play is ideally suited to his play. He is one of our best players and he is accommodated by us. That is not to say that he does not deserve this in our team but I doubt he would be afforded such accommodation with a CL team. Also, I doubt he would be an automatic pick and I get the feeling that Pienaar is a player that needs regular football.

From my point of view, I am not angry with Pienaar; I am disappointed. We have had our money's worth and he has never given less than 100% and as such he should not be criticised for his commitment. I also accept that players have the right to move for more money, as we all do.

However, we are not talking about leaving a job for £20k per year for one for £25k a year. The salary Pienaar is being offered at Everton makes him exceptionally well paid and I believe he is not as good as he thinks he is. We have made him the player he is today — before he signed for us, had anyone heard of him ? He now believes he is bigger than EFC and that is what disappoints me. Well my message to him is: You are NOT bigger than EFC and never will be. We should sell him immediately and try and buy Moutinho who is a far better player and who can comfortably play left midfield.

I put money on it that Pienaar will be a failure wherever he goes, he will not play regularly at a CL team and he will not like that. Still, he will have his extra 10k a week (taxed at 50%) to console him — good luck Steven .......

Declan Burke
56   Posted 24/05/2010 at 19:20:27

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I agree with comments of Jay (26), Fran (36) and James (39). Pienaar has worked hard all season and in my opinion he now deserves to be rewarded. with a good contract, at least equal to the top earners. There is nothing wrong with that — did our "beloved" manager not employ the same tactic a while ago in order to enhance his bank balance?

Also, the dogs in the street knew that Pienaar's contract was running down. It was discussed here, this time last year. The club should have moved before now, but of course we are Everton...

Dave Wilson
57   Posted 24/05/2010 at 19:05:28

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Shameful comments directed at a guy who has only ever given 100% for this club.

What if he is not prepared to be "fucked off "? What if, when we try to "get shot", he wont go?

The people sneering that he`s a "greedy", "pouting, posturing", "twat" better hope they are wrong, because Pienaar holds all the cards here, he can guarantee himself a more lucrative contract elsewhere by merely honouring his contract and walking at the end of it.

And what's all this about getting £8/10/15 million for him? Try to understand Everton's bargaining position: without Pienaar's co-operation, we don't have one.

Let's hope the vile abuse directed at our Player of the Season is confined to these pages, because Pienaar will have few qualms about doing things the Sol Campbell way if he thinks these are the views of all Evertonians.
Kunal Desai
58   Posted 24/05/2010 at 20:35:08

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In short: Good player certainly replaceable. If he signs then great; if not, I'm certainly not that arsed. I trust Moyes will bring an adequate if not better replacement. My only concern is we don't get a repeat of a drawn-out transfer as last year. Either it's sorted out in the next two weeks or a swift resolution once SA are out of the World Cup.

Not a repeat of last summer, thank you very much.

Stephen Cowdy
59   Posted 24/05/2010 at 20:38:02

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Liverpool are supposed to be after Stevie... hope he dosen't go to them, anyone else bar them please!!!
Brendan O'Doherty
60   Posted 24/05/2010 at 20:37:44

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How do we know whether or not Pienaar has been offered parity with the other top players? If he hasn't then fair enough — he's had two good seasons and deserves it. But if he has and wants more, i.e. breaking the club's wage structure, then he is forcing us either to sell him or let him see out his contract. The noises coming from his agent would indicate that the latter is nearer the truth, so it's no wonder people are annoyed.
Wayne Smyth
61   Posted 24/05/2010 at 20:29:46

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Some of the comments are harsh.

Pienaar signed a contract when he moved from Borussia, he's honoured that contract so far — since he has said he's happy to stay — and is one of the few players who consistently puts in a shift.

If he doesn't want to agree an extension, or isn't happy with the money on the table, then that is his business. As a very good footballer heading towards the latter part of his career, he may wish to be playing at the very top level with a real chance of winning stuff.

My gut feeling is that Moyes will probably move him on for whatever he can get and buy in a younger replacement.
Davie Turner
62   Posted 24/05/2010 at 20:32:58

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I think Pienaar should be offered a contract in keeping with our top earners. If Pienaar decides that he wants to move on and not sign with ourselves, then I would wish him all the best and see what the market values him with. Assuming Pienaar decides to leave, then any £ over £10m for the squad is a bonus for us.

I think he is a grand player and has done well for us on the left and in the middle. I don't think he is world class, though... and with £10million we would do very nicely with finding a replacement. Pienaar leaving does not fill me with the dread of Arteta leaving.

End of the day, I would really like him to sign a new contract and see what this team of ours can do next season. If he doesn't and we get a good amount to reinvest, then I would say thanks and good luck to the lad.

He definitely does not deserve the abuse he getting though, I think his contract should have been sorted 12 months ago!
James Flynn
63   Posted 24/05/2010 at 20:37:04

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Dave Wilson (59), well said. A strange way for some of our fellow EFC fans to express support of the club.

I hope he stays, even if to play out his final year. If nothing else, the pressure to have an exceptional season (which he's absolutely capable of) will be on his shoulders. Couldn't but help us push all the way up the Table, while putting himself in the best light for offers.

If he goes on a transfer in the EPL, it almost has to be to one of our competitors for Top 4. Whatever the price, how is that good for EFC next season? Not only we lose a talent we could keep simply by doing nothing, but also a big opponent adds that same talent? Not good.

The single (and I think best) card Moyes holds is to let Pienaar play out his contract. Steven has no real choice but to play his ass off. Which I believe he will do. Good for EFC and good for him.
David Thomas
64   Posted 24/05/2010 at 21:19:09

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I think Brendan in post 61 sums it up well. SP's performances should warrant him the same level of pay as the top earners at the club... but, if he is holding Everton to ransom with silly demands, then he deserves the stick he will get. However, as has been mentioned previously, the sad state of affairs is that nowadays the player holds all the cards and if he decides to see out his contract there is nothing the club can do about it.

On another note, I can't believe someone on this thread stated Cahill does not work that hard. In 30 odd years of watching Everton, he is one of the, if not the most hardest working player I have seen.
Mike Oates
65   Posted 24/05/2010 at 22:13:55

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Pinnear's the reason Baines is so effective. Their link-up play has created numerous goals for us this season (if you had just watched the England game, you will have noticed how ineffectual Baines was going forward). Loosing Pienaar would effectively seriously dampen our attacking options — not only through Baines but also his creative short sharp passing with Arteta.

But, as with anything, Pienaar will have a salary limit Everton are willing to pay — if he wants more, he won't get it and we should move him on quickly. To get a replacement like him is impossible and we will have to change our style of play — particularly on our left hand side.
Ciarán McGlone
66   Posted 24/05/2010 at 22:29:00

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There seems to be a point being missed here...

People are angry at Pienaar because of the position he's put himself in... Firstly, it's been widely reported that he avoided a contract renewal last summer, thus reducing his value to us.

Secondly, and this is the big one — he seems to be under some sort of delusion that he's too big for this club, and that he'd walk into a Champions League side... Not only does it belittle us — it's makes him something he's not...

Maybe we could get Joe Cole as a replacement.
Ciarán McGlone
67   Posted 24/05/2010 at 22:32:56

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"Dave Wilson (59), well said. A strange way for some of our fellow EFC fans to express support of the club."

-----------------------------------

I know you're new to all this, Mr Flynn... but the club is not the players, or the manager or the current board.

Never confuse employees with the club... the fans are the club and they have every right to express their opinions about employees.

You're a bright boy and you'll soon learn to be cynical about footballers. Whether they are currently ours or not.
Pat Finegan
68   Posted 24/05/2010 at 23:30:39

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Sell Pienaar for £18 mil, buy Donovan for £6M, have £12M left over to do what we want. I think Donovan is as good as Pienaar and Bily will do fine on the left. £12 mil can get us a top-notch striker.
Brendan O'Doherty
69   Posted 25/05/2010 at 00:55:02

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Pienaar's agent today:

"If nothing happens before the World Cup with Everton, we may have to consider other options. I am aware of the interest of some big clubs."

If that is not holding a gun to our head then I don't know what is.
James Stewart
70   Posted 25/05/2010 at 00:59:56

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I find Pienaar very hard to support. He has had plenty of chances to sign a new contract before now. If he thinks he is too big for the club then he is gonna be sorry when he is sat on the bench at some CL club. He's good but he ain't that good! Add to that his off-the-field antics and his annoying god issues. Sell the little muppet now and just have done with it.
Eamonn Turner
71   Posted 25/05/2010 at 02:34:03

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Exactly, Brendan and James. There has been ample oppurtunity to sign a new deal, it hasn't happened. Fair enough, he's entitled to the best deal he can get, but this sounds like extortion.

As for a CL club, Bollocks. I think he'd be off to Blackpool if he could get a big deal.
James Flynn
72   Posted 25/05/2010 at 03:43:40

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"You're a bright boy and you'll soon learn to be cynical about footballers. Whether they are currently ours or not".

Domo Arigato Sensei.

Take one giant step back there, Young'un. I'm American. We CREATED free agency for pro sports athletes. Most of my adult life in numerous pro sports here, players have had some control over who they play for and how much dough they make. Cynicism never occurred to me.

The players aren't the club eh? Bullshit. Why is everyone so passionate about them then? You included. Let's aim your words of wisdom elsewhere there grasshopper.
Dave Wilson
73   Posted 25/05/2010 at 06:18:30

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"You`ll soon learn to be cynical about footballers".

Steady on there grasshopper.

That a footballer wants the best deal he can get for himself and his family, hardly makes him any different from the rest of us. The offer last season may well have been derisory for all you know.

No matter how things "appear" or "seem" to the 'throw away the key' mob, nobody really knows what's been offered to who.

Pienaar has been a terrific buy for Everton, if he sees out his contract we'd have still gotten tremendous value for the £2 Million we paid for him; if he goes, we'll probably see a tidy profit too.

This guy will be starring for the host nation in the biggest competition on earth... I don't see putting a few stone throwers out of their misery as being very high on his list of priorities.

It would be no surprise to any of us if the club really need to sacrifice a player to stay solvent; maybe they have decided Pienaar is to be that player. Easily done... simply make him an offer they know he won't accept.

The only thing we really know is that If the BOTH parties really want the contract signed, it will happen.

Kevin Hudson
74   Posted 25/05/2010 at 07:52:59

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"Maybe we could get Joe Cole as replacement."

Your suggestion is nonsense on a pure financial basis.
Paul Gladwell
75   Posted 25/05/2010 at 08:16:01

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I really would love for him to stay but there is a difference with him and the Cahills and Rodwells. They have kept their gobs shut, done the talking behind closed doors, and signed up.

For the past ten months, Pienaar has been telling us about how Louis told him of Bayern's interest on the training pitch which was ever so flattering and now his agent is holding a gun to our heads with his latest comment.

Graeme Sharp told the Cammel Laird social club back in November in front of Elstone that there is no way Pienaar will sign a new contract and I have never once doubted what he said, but it would be nice to be proved wrong.

Jamie Rowland
76   Posted 25/05/2010 at 09:34:44

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We had all this crap two seasons ago with Moyes holding back on his contract — the result, a poor start to the season (we hadn't won at home unilt November).

Last season we endured the debacle that was Lescott... the will he (of course he will) or won't he... the result: a crap start that hurt our season big time.

This season... Pienaar... another lack-lustre player with no better decision-making than James McFadden (yes, looks the part but he hardly stepped up when Arteta was injured). So I say, cash in now while the going is good... or hope he has an amazing World Cup so that we can hike the price up and cash in, allowing us to buy Defour, Dalmat or Moutinho.

Last year, because of the Lescott bollocks and the timing, we ended up with a mismatched side of youth, over experience and shite. Let's not allow that to happen this year, Mr Moyes!
Jamie Rowland
77   Posted 25/05/2010 at 09:39:19

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Pienaar is quoted as having said something like "our valuations are different".... Now if this is true it's almost a certainty that Everton won't/can't go any higher.

I think that this refers to the signing-on fee... the valuation of the player is important in terms of what Pienaar gets as a signing-on fee.

There will always be room for improvement salary wise... it stands to good reason that Everton will have gone in low, Pienaar's cash-hungry agent will have gone in high and now it's an argument (or in Everton's case, several months of arguments) to meet in the middle.

Personally, any more than £30k a week is taking the piss, he really isn't that good and hardly sets the world on fire...
Dave Wilson
78   Posted 25/05/2010 at 09:43:50

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Paul, you are right, there is a difference between The Cahills of this world and Pienaar. We now hear Pienaar isn't amongst the club high earners. WTF not? He earned less money than Cahill but out-preformed him all season.

Who is holding a gun to whose head here?

It's laughable that people can label Pienaar a greedy bastard when, despite being one of our best and most consistant performers, he isn't amongst the high earners, he`s surely earned that.

If the club want to try to cash in, why don't they have the bollocks to say so? It's always the "greedy players" fault.

I wonder how long Arteta or Cahill would stick around if others were earning far more than them???
Brian Williams
79   Posted 25/05/2010 at 10:04:08

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"Steven Pienaar's agent is urging Everton to resolve the player's contract negotiations before the World Cup, reiterating that his client would like his Goodison future decided before the tournament kicks off next month or he will likely demand a transfer from the club that resurrected his career."...

Hang on a mo!

Is this the same player who already stated that he wanted to leave everything until AFTER the World Cup so he could concentrate purely on it?

This latest snippet, coupled with Paul Gladwell's bombshell via Sharpey, speaks volumes for me.

I firmly believe we've seen the last of the lad in an Everton shirt!
Matthew Mackey
80   Posted 25/05/2010 at 10:01:04

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My understanding is that Pienaar wants (pay) parity with the top earners at Everton. I assume these "top earners" to be the likes of Tim Cahill and Mickey Arteta. If the only thing that is stalling Peanuts from signing a new contract is this parity request with Cahill and Arteta, then for fuck's sake DM/BK, give the lad that parity!

There may be more to this situation than we know about but, if the main issue is this pay parity, then I find it amazing that we would be prepared to unsettle the team (once more) and risk losing by far our best performer last season just for the sake of a few quid!

Compared to a lot of PL sides, Everton don't pay that well, so if we want to hang onto our little gems then get real DM/BK and give the player what he wants.

Remember – 'tis better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Pienaar has proven his worth to Everton, a replacement has not... so I'd rather keep Pienaar than lose him.

Paul Gladwell
81   Posted 25/05/2010 at 10:10:57

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Dave, do you honestly believe Everton have not offered him as much as Cahill and Co? I think all this media interest of him, being the poster boy in his own country, has gone to his head. He is good but is certainly no world beater.
Mike Gwyer
82   Posted 25/05/2010 at 09:57:14

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The rumour mill is definately in full swing and unfortunately we have players that other teams want.

Personally, I am more concerned about interest in Arteta, basically his contract needs to be sorted pronto as City, Spurs and Arsenal will soon be hovering.

Another note regarding Pienaar. I watched Baines last night and IMO thought he had a bit of a stinker — he was not supported, as he is by Pienaar, which often left him open to some quick move footy.
Tim Kells
83   Posted 25/05/2010 at 10:34:07

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Further comments from Pienaar's agent, printed in the Daily Mail:
Pienaar's agent Ivan Modia said: 'My guess is that if, by the first match of the 2010 World Cup, we have been unable to take Steven an improved offer, then he will assume that Everton's position is final.

'The club are very busy concluding other players on long-term deals, most of whom have longer to run on their contract than Pienaar.

'That could mean one of three things: Either they wish to conclude other business before making a final offer, or it could mean that they have decided to sell him, or that they are satisfied that Pienaar walks away in 12 months as a free agent.'
Dave Wilson
84   Posted 25/05/2010 at 10:26:16

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Paul
To be honest, no I don't. His agent clearly states this to be the case and unless the club refute his claims I have no reason to disbelieve him.

World beater? Maybe not... but, if he goes, Evertonians will realise very quickly how crucial he is to playing the style of football we enjoyed last season.

Besides Paul, do you really have to be a world beater to earn the same wages as Cahill or Jagielka?
Paul Gladwell
85   Posted 25/05/2010 at 10:53:51

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Dave I agree mate, but what gets me is for the past 10 months it does appear that him an his agent have been trying to engineer a move.
Ciarán McGlone
86   Posted 25/05/2010 at 11:08:54

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"The players aren't the club eh? Bullshit. Why is everyone so passionate about them then? You included. Let's aim your words of wisdom elsewhere there grasshopper. "
-------------------------

James. You've a lot to learn.
Ciarán McGlone
87   Posted 25/05/2010 at 11:13:27

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"That a footballer wants the best deal he can get for himself and his family, hardly makes him any different from the rest of us."

--------------------

Absolutely no problem with that, Dave.

What I do have a problem with is someone telling me that I can't call him the greedy, egotistical git that he is, without questioning my enduring relationship with this club.

Simple really.
Marc Williams
88   Posted 25/05/2010 at 11:23:53

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So what to do about young Stevie P eh ?

I suggest Plan A :

1) Don't give in to his demands & attempts to hold the club over a barrel.
2) Let him star in & be the face of SA in the World Cup.
3) Screw every penny we can out of 'Crappy Arry' so he can join the band of mercenaries at White Tart lane.
4) Buy young Steven plenty of those drinks he's so fond off.
5) Fill a car with other overated players like Shaun Wright philips, who think they are underpaid & being "mugged off" (His own word's the other week) at being offered only £70,000 per week!
6) Point the car in a 'Down Sowth' direction & give Pienaar the keys.

If that don't work then we're fucked, as we never have a Plan B!!!
Garry Martin
89   Posted 25/05/2010 at 12:04:57

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The club & supporters will survive without him, like all in the past who (so they say) have left for good reasons. Main point for me is not to linger the transfer pain, get shut ASAP & move on. We've had too many disappointing pre-seasons to let this one hurt us again. We've learnt too many times to molly coddle these gods.... so fuck him off & bring in another player.... from the accademy or on the cheap or lower divisions.

You're the loser, Steven, not EFC.
Martyn Valentine
90   Posted 25/05/2010 at 12:10:10

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No one player is bigger than the club. If he wants to go then we should get the best deal possible, thank him for his efforts over the last few seasons and wish him all the best.

I'm sure DM will find at least two decent replacements with the money. I would hate to see Pienaar go but his heart won't be in it and I'd hate to see an acrimonious departure (Lescott) that affects the team spirit when other players have/will be committing their futures to this great club.
Andy Crooks
91   Posted 25/05/2010 at 12:29:05

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I was very critical of Pienaar yesterday and on reflection perhaps a little harsh. However, I believe it is how many fans feel.

I would gladly play for Everton for the pittance I earn at present, I absolutely mean that. I don't claim that makes me a great Evertonian, in fact it probably makes me a sad bastard. Walking out to Z-Cars must be the greatest feeling on earth and it angers me, unreasonably I'm sure, that someone will walk away from it for money.

I suppose I must just accept that, with a few exceptions, that this is the difference between players and supporters. I think we are lucky at Everton in that we have some players who take a fan's view. As for Pienaar, let's just get it done.

Tom Bowers
92   Posted 25/05/2010 at 12:28:23

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'Tis the time of the season when agents want to top up their bank accounts and set everything in motion. The press is going berserk with unfounded rumours of ridiculous transfer offers etc etc. We should all relax and take it with a pinch of salt.

Whatever happens will happen and contract negotiations will become protracted with a lot of players. All this will make our heads spin. If Peanuts is unhappy let him go. Sure he can play a bit but he's not that good. If he can fetch a good profit, do it and move on to someone younger and eagre who wants to play for Everton.

Ray Kelly
93   Posted 25/05/2010 at 12:20:18

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I can understand any player trying to get a new improved deal but using his enhanced media profile due to the World Cup to virtually blackmail the club is a slap in the face to DM and the supporters. He's a little shit, start taking offers for him ASAP and get shut before the whole squad gets disturbed pre-season again.

He's burnt his bridges with the fans and will get stick, if he stays, every time he puts a foot wrong or is perceived to not be trying his best. I would think £10million if we're lucky... maybe £12million tops. Get the lad Noble from West Ham, he's a fine young player.

Michael Brien
94   Posted 25/05/2010 at 12:40:18

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Personally, I would be sad to see Pienaar leave — but it is a fact of football these days that this kind of thing happens. I read also on various footy websites that Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City are very interested in signing Mikel Arteta. Again that would be very sad for all Evertonians, to put it mildly.

However, it's not just Everton that suffer from this kind of thing. In recent seasons Arsenal have seen Hleib, Henry and now probably Fabregas leave to go to the Nou Camp. Does that make them a feeder club for Barcelona? Only if you're a Spurs fan wanting to take the piss. But I am sure that Arsenal fans are not too chuffed at the thought of losing another of their star players to Barcelona.

If the worst case scenario for Evertonians happens — i.e. Pienaar & Arteta are transfer targets for some of the richer clubs — then I hope that Moyes follows the example of Wenger. That is to say, don't try and drag things out, leaving us only a couple of weeks before the end of the transfer window to bring in replacements. Try and do a good deal, but as soon as possible so that there is enough time BEFORE the start of the season to bring in any replacements.

And as regards plan B. Sorry this isn't meant to be an anti-Moyes comment — but I would have thought that any manager/coach worth his salt would regard team building as an ongoing thing and would be aware of the up-and-coming players/players coming to the end of their contracts/players available for loan. Isn't that part of the job? For example, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to be aware that Henry has not had the best of seasons at Barca and with the arrival of David Villa, he may well have become 3rd/4th choice. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone coming in for him either a permanent deal or loan? A possibility for Everton? Why not?

Matthew Tait
95   Posted 25/05/2010 at 12:50:24

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Without knowing the financial details, it's hard to really know what is the best approach — i.e. how much does he actually want? what are we actually offering him? and what would we get if we sold him now?

On the assumptions that we would get very little for him (like £6-8m), I would strongly recommend we break the bank to offer Pienaar an attractive deal. As others have said, we would have to pay a lot more to get a similar player than we would receive for Pienaar, and that player would still have to settle (Bily...). Pienaar is almost as important to us as Arteta and Cahill, and should be on similar wages if he isn't already.

If his demands are genuinely exorbitant or we just can't afford them, I would keep him for the remaining year of his contract, unless we were going to be able to get a really good deal from someone for him (and by that I mean around £10m, which might give us a chance of signing a decent replacement). And yes, we should avoid selling him to a Prem club if at all possible.

Oh, and I've got no particular grief with Pienaar for wanting to up his pay. And if he thinks he can move to a CL club this summer or next year, I guess that's understandable. It would annoy me a bit though if he was doing a Barmby, asking for the earth on the assumption we can't pay it in order to force an immediate move. Would be interesting to see what happened if we called his possible bluff and offered to pay what he wants...
Rob Young
96   Posted 25/05/2010 at 13:37:49

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How come his agent is now putting pressure on Everton to sort it out before the World Cup when the player himself has said he doesn't want any distractions before and during the tournament, including contract talks with Everton???

Basically, Steven Peinaar doesn't owe us anything. Why would he? Because Moyes brought him in when not many others were interested? Fair enough... but Pienaar repaid that by working his socks off for Everton FC. The deal worked out as much for the club as it has done for him.

Now he has one year left on his contract, he is one of out main players and he rightfully wants to be rewarded for that. Can't blame him for that. Even if he will move away because some other club will offer him more in wages or perhaps a shot at the Champions League then fair play to him.If so, I will thank him for the effort he has put him.

Hopefully he stays, if not ... good luck to him
Ciarán McGlone
97   Posted 25/05/2010 at 13:51:39

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"For example you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to be aware that Henry has not had the best of seasons at Barca and with the arrival of David Villa, he may well have become 3rd/4th choice. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone coming in for him either a permanent deal or loan A possibility for Everton? Why not?"
------------------

Jesus, I'd cream myself...

But again, like Joe Cole... he'd be rather beyond our wages budget.
Dave Wilson
98   Posted 25/05/2010 at 13:32:52

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Andy

I doubt theres a single person logged on to this site who wouldn't play for Everton for nothing, so if that makes you a sad bastard, you have an awful lot of company... but what if you found yourself, week-in, week-out, playing better, but earning less than "the boys who would bleed blue if you cut em" — the Cahills and the Jagielkas — don't you think you may be tempted to ask for a little of what they are getting?

Mind you, if you do get the nod from Moysie next season and you are named Player of the Season, don't be surprised when the people like Ciaran want to overlook the fabulous contracts given to lesser players and accuse you of being a a greedy egotistical git, for having the temerity to ask for parity... and trust me, you would ask for parity.
Ciarán McGlone
99   Posted 25/05/2010 at 14:01:13

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Dave,

Pienaar is not on the same wages as those players because he hasn't renegotiated his contract since he signed..

You asked people above not to speculate... but by suggesting he hasn't been offered the same as Cahill — last year or this year — you're doing exactly that!

You have no idea what he's asking for — or what he's been offered... so how about practising what you preach.
Dave Wilson
100   Posted 25/05/2010 at 14:13:47

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Ciaran

Happy to, but things have moved along since that post and his agent clearly states others are earning more than he's being offered, that's the problem.

Cahill is a favorite with all of us, but don't you think Pienaar would be able to command far more than him anywhere else? Do you not have even the slightest suspicion that the club should be trying a little harder if they really want to keep Pienaar?

There are two parties here and neither is being 100% truthful.

Pienaar may not be a totally innocent party but he certainly isn't as guilty as he is being portrayed on this thread.
Ciarán McGlone
101   Posted 25/05/2010 at 14:31:58

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Dave,

I'm too long in the tooth to realise that there are two sides at odds here... But one of them is working for the good of the club, the other is not. So I know what side I'm on... how about you?

As for the details of what he's being offered, I've read the quotes from the agent... and nowhere does it say that he's not been offered as much as the top earners.

Karl Masters
102   Posted 25/05/2010 at 14:26:11

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Dave Wilson — Hear, hear!

Some common sense in a sea of narrow-minded drivel. Pienaar is crucial to our style of play and that is proven by the results in the last two seasons when he's not played.

What is wrong with trying to get the best deal when you are 28/29 and it will be your last big opportunity? Rodwell gets a second new contract in 15 months; Cahill and Arteta being offered new deals less than 2 years after signing their existing deals... Of course Stevie wants some of the action.

The question, of course, is how much does he want? Is it more than the others or similar to them? If it's similar, we should agree and sign him up. If his demands are off the radar, then we can't and should not go there.

We'll probably never know the numbers, but we do know he's done us proud so far, so lay off the personal insults, boys. You really don't know what you are talking about and look silly as a result of it.
Mike Green
103   Posted 25/05/2010 at 13:42:54

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Ciaran — you're wrong.

I think this is pretty accurate from Wikipedia:

"The term football club is the most commonly used for a sports club which is an organised or incorporated body with a president, committee and a set of rules responsible for ensuring the continued playing existence of one or more teams which are selected for regular competition play (and which may participate in several different divisions or leagues)."

We are not Everton Football Club, we are supporters of Everton Football Club.

If I were you, I'd man up and apologise.
Ciarán McGlone
104   Posted 25/05/2010 at 14:48:11

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"If I were you I'd man up and apologise. "

-----------------

Once you prove me wrong, I might.


I don't consider any transient employees or guardians to be 'Everton' - I do however consider the fans to be a huge part of it.

ps: It'll take more than a wishy-washy generslised wilkepedia definition of club structure to change my opinion on this.
Dave Wilson
105   Posted 25/05/2010 at 14:51:58

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When you say "acting in the best interest of the club", do you think offering a man considerably less than he's worth in the hope that another club will come in with the sort of offer that will keep the wolves from the door for another season is acting in the best interest of the club?

I can live with that, but why blame our need to sell to survive on Pienaar? He will merely be this summer's sacrificial lamb.

There`ll be another next season and guess what? It`ll be the players fault again
Ciarán McGlone
106   Posted 25/05/2010 at 15:14:41

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"When you say 'acting in the best interest of the club', do you think offering a man considerably less than he's worth in the hope that another club will come in with the sort of offer that will keep the wolves from the door for another season is acting in the best interest of the club ?"

-------------------------

You've no idea how much he's been offered. So again, your speculation on whether this represents his 'worth' —- and the motives of the board — are pure guesswork...

The best interests of the club is getting the most value for our money — I would've thought that was pretty self-explanatory... and where opinion is invited I will always come down in favour of those who are working for the best interests of the club. It's a rather obvious position for me — whatever way you choose to cut it.
Mike Green
107   Posted 25/05/2010 at 15:04:39

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Well, you put me firmly in my place there, Ciaran.

As for Pienaar, it's a bitter pill to swallow but he's perfectly entitled to do whatever he wants with his contract and future. The club (not you or I, Ciaran) make him an offer for what they believe his services warrant in the best interests of the club and he accepts or declines, just like any other form of employment.

I'm sure that's what grown-ups do anyway.
Jason Heng
108   Posted 25/05/2010 at 15:43:29

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Let's pray he has an excellent World Cup, which should push up his value.
Ciarán McGlone
109   Posted 25/05/2010 at 15:42:48

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Mike,

Employees of the club make him an offer.
Michael Brien
110   Posted 25/05/2010 at 15:47:04

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Ciaran; Henry was just one example — I am sure that there are several "big name" players who are in a similar situation i.e. once they were the star signing but someone else has taken over that mantle.

With Barcelona, David Villa is now the main man. Who knows, maybe Barca don't want to lose him completely — a loan deal could therfore be in the interests of all parties and Barca might be willing to pay part of his salary.

As I said, it's just an example of the kind of deal that could be considered. Given the fickle nature of the likes of Real Madrid, Barcalona and other Spanish clubs, there are several players once in the "superstar" bracket that are surplus to requirements, sometimes due to a change in club President. Huntelaar and Robben at Real Madrid being two examples.

And, after all, wasn't Pienaar seen as being a "failure" at Borussia Dortmund and they wanted to ofload him? It's surely worthwhile Moyes being aware of other players that are now in that situation.

Dave Wilson
111   Posted 25/05/2010 at 15:33:13

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Ordinary players have been coining it for years at GP, people like AvdM, who was allowed to bleed us dry, Rooney was sold, Lescott was sold... and now it looks like Pienaar may be sold, who next ?

When all the players have gone, let's hope you haven't worn out that accusing finger of yours, because even you will realise that the people "acting in the best interest of the club" are the very reason we are in this position. Years of doing sweet FA have put us here.

"The people acting in the best interest of the club" have criminally allowed this club to fall into such a state of decay, not only can we not bring players in, but we can't hang on to the ones we`ve got.

But hey, it doesn't matter that ordinary players up and down the country earn more, if a player isn't prepared to sign for considerably less to play for one of the Prems most incompetent, least ambitious boards... they must be greedy bastards.
Andy Crooks
112   Posted 25/05/2010 at 16:02:11

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Mike Green, without Bill Kenwright, David Moyes or any other transient employee of the club Everton will still exist... Without the supporters at home and abroad Everton will not exist. The supporters ARE the club.
Ciarán McGlone
113   Posted 25/05/2010 at 16:08:39

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I agree with the Sentiment Mr O'Brien....One rumour that has been making my ears prick up - is that Eduardo is surplus to requirements..I'd love either him or Vela to come here...stylish footballers who would compliment our emerging style..


Dave,

Again you're running around in circles avoiding the point being made... Firstly, you stated that he hadn't been offered what Cahill was on, then you brought up the rather abstract notion of 'worth' — you are wrong on boths counts — by virtue of the fact that you don't have the slightest clue what Mr Pienaar has been offered.

To suggest I am ignoring the failings of the guardians of this club is a rather erroneous and ludicrous side-step around the issue... Because you'll find it hard to find someone who agrees with you more on that point.

But on this issue, you're simply being presumptuous — and using that presumption to come out on the side of a player. Where we differ on this issue is that I'm coming out on the side of those negotiating for the club..
Mike Green
114   Posted 25/05/2010 at 16:10:47

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Andy, of course it would still exist, providing there were 11 blokes willing to turn out for it on a weekend and for someone to organise that activity.

We as supporters support them in doing this – which is why we're called supporters – support who may or may not help them compete with other clubs in this activity.
James Flynn
115   Posted 25/05/2010 at 15:43:21

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Michael (94) and Ciaran (97). Wouldn't it be something with our mid-field to have Henry up front? Even if Moyes used him sparingly to save his legs. Have to make a difference, right?

But he's going to New York. Red Bulls have been after him since he left Arsenal, even matched Barca's money in negotiations. Now, with 3/4 million French-speaking Africans in NY, Red Bulls' fantastic new facility, and 2010 being Henry's last WC, plus his age, he's going to America.

Imagine him, though, coming off the bench in the blue shirt. Opponents shitting. Ciaran creaming.
Mike Green
116   Posted 25/05/2010 at 16:34:04

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No thanks James...
Ciarán McGlone
117   Posted 25/05/2010 at 16:36:44

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Haha... My cream will have curdled by then!
Trevor Lynes
118   Posted 25/05/2010 at 16:30:23

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Pienaar is always involved in 'every game'... he gives a full stint every game and covers more ground than ANY other player, both in supporting Baines and assisting in midfield and attack.

NO-ONE commenting on this site knows what is going on and a lot of baseless assumptions are being made too hastily for my peace of mind. He was our most consistent player over the past season and, even though his contract is 'up in the air', he has never shirked or sulked in any game I have seen him play in.

He is a consummate professional and a credit to the game... he has been fouled more than anyone this season and for my money I really want him to stay. I am sure he will be 'high profile' in this coming World Cup as he makes sure he is always involved in any match he plays in.

He does NOT make easy square passes and enjoys running with the ball as he is a very confident individual... Baines has blossomed with Pienaar's support and Baines's game has come on a lot since he formed an understanding with Pienaar. I don't believe Baines would be in the England squad without the help of Pienaar in developing his game and improving his confidence.

If Pienaar is not earning the same money as Cahill and Arteta, then I do not blame him for making his stand because I reckon he is worth it. If there is something more he wants then that is another matter and until EFC clarify the situation (which I am sure they will not)... it is all just conjecture!!!

Michael Brien
119   Posted 25/05/2010 at 16:59:09

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As I said, I was just mentioning Henry as an example... but stranger things have happened. Back in the summer of 1978, two of the stars of Argentina's World Cup winning squad — Ardilles & Villa — signed for (newly promoted to the top division) Tottenham... or should that be Tottingham!!?
Peter Warren
120   Posted 25/05/2010 at 17:19:12

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Hold on a minute... "Pienaar is a consummate professional and does no wrong." Is it me, or has he had some off-field unpleasant antics?

From what I've heard from his agent, he said he wants his future sorted before the World Cup; them no, not now, but after... and presently, he wants it sorted before the World Cup. Make up your bloody mind!

I think people are making stuff up to back up their opinion here. My opinion (based on assumptions which may not be true) is that when we first signed him, a game of brinkmanship was played so he got a good wage. Of course, he shouldn't moan about what he's being paid — he agreed to it — no slave labour here.

Now, EFC believe they can pay him less than the top earners and they're calling his bluff as they don't think his earning potential will rocket after the World Cup and, even if SA have a great World Cup and it does, the transfer value on his head will increase.

His agent speaks about 3 options, why taking longer than other players — how about a 4th option: others are easier to negotiate with as they are more than willing to sign for the club.

James Flynn
121   Posted 25/05/2010 at 17:10:59

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Trevor - Agree. This is what, the 4th long discussion on Pienaar in here? Myself, if EFC has made its final offer, I say let him play out the contract, but frame it in the most positive way possible. "Great player", "Hate to lose him", "We'll keep hoping", "Damn the modern game's finances", "Let's have a great season and see what happens", etc. Steven will have to have the best season of his career, no? Good for him... and GREAT for the club.
Conor Waters
122   Posted 25/05/2010 at 17:37:16

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As the poll on TW suggests, most people would prefer to sell Pienaar to the highest bidder. Football fans have been, and will always be, fickle in nature. Yes, he has been a great servant to the club, and naturally, now that it suggests he's engineering a move away, everyone seems to turn on him.

EFC need to offer him a salary equal to our highest paid players; let's be honest, he is one of our best players (if he accepts, great) and if he rejects then, yes, by all means bleed him dry for every bean in a transfer... surely we could get at least £10m in this still overinflated market?

As for other players that have been mentioned, Cole, Henry etc Seriously? The former is never gonna join a team up north and the latter would be more suited to basketball or GAA. And besides, there isn't a chance in hell that players on that type of payscale will sign for the Blues — we are like a third world country when it comes to paying wages.

Oh and Ciaran and Dave — get a room...
Mike Gaynes
123   Posted 25/05/2010 at 17:42:17

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Fran, of course I watched the Confederations Cup — I'm an American, and I loved watching the USA make the finals. But the Confederations Cup isn't the World Cup, not remotely. Do you consider the USA to be the #2 team in the world based on the Con Cup? Of course not.

I do not expect South Africa to accomplish anything against any of the teams they're grouped with. Don't you think they know that "everything went through Pienaar" in the Con Cup? They all have excellent defensive midfielders who can, and will, hound Pienaar's every step.

I stand by my opinion — I think Pienaar's value will be lower after the World Cup, not higher, and there is no reason for Everton not to wait. If he really wants to stay with us, then (no matter what his agent says) something can be worked out later this summer. And if he doesn't, there is plenty of time to sell him then.
Steve Edwards
124   Posted 25/05/2010 at 17:41:01

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The latest comments by the agent do not appear to me as though Steven Pienaar wants to leave Everton Football Club. Therefore, what are Everton playing at?

I don't think he would be asking for money outside the existing pay structure. What would be the point? If he wants to go, then plenty of clubs are interested in him so why not just go? He would then get more money if that is his prime motive.

Something stinks here. He should be one of the top earners at the club. Did the club not make him Player of the Season. So why are they not offering him top money... and my guess is they are not?

I know we are only guessing as to what is going on but my gut feelings now are that the club are starting to look a bit shady. I suspect that they are not offering him parity with the other top earners. If that is the case, then the club may have decided to cash in and this is just a smoke screen in order to sell one of our best players and not upset the fans. We all know that they are going to have to sell to buy. Moyes only had the Lescott cash last year.

Dave Wilson
125   Posted 25/05/2010 at 18:29:20

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Is right, Steve.

I'm not assuming anything, but I'm basing my opinion on the facts that are available to us.

Pienaar was offered a contract last year but chose not to sign it; today, we are told he is and has been earning less money than other players... is it not logical to believe that, although he was offered improved terms, he was not offered parity; and if he was, why doesn't somebody at the club refute the statement ?

While the club remain silent, we have to try to piece together what is actually happening here.

Sticking a wet finger in the air and declaring him a greedy bastard without anything to back it up doesn't strike me as being open-minded.

If this prick of an agent is talking out of his rear end, why do the club remain silent?

Ciarán McGlone
126   Posted 25/05/2010 at 22:23:36

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So you're dealing in facts in one sentence Dave - and then in the next your stating that it's guessing that it's 'logical' he hasn't been offered parity...

How exactly is it logical? And how exactly is that a fact?

Pienaar's agent is playing it by the big book of "get as much money out of the fuckers as possible" — and you're still trying to pull facts out of your ass to prove Pienaar's being ill-treated...

Do me a favour Dave. He's a footballer, and he's playing the game.
Dave Wilson
127   Posted 26/05/2010 at 06:06:52

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I dont at any stage claim Pienaar has been ill treated, I just dont subscribe to your guilty until proven innocent philosophy.

I question the right even the wisdom, of anybody - who by their own admission, know nothing about these negotiations - to brand one of the parties a greedy bastard.

Pienaar and his agent are two different people.

If I ever find myself in the dock, I hope to fuck you`re not on the jury.

Oh and BTW ; These people who you claim are acting in the best interest of the club . . .who are they ?
Jason Lam
128   Posted 26/05/2010 at 07:15:41

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If Pienaar's heart's not in it then get rid. Remember that Neill we sold to Galatasaray? Did he get a farewell game against the Arse? No he didn't and we didn't even have 2 fully fit centerbacks. Didn't even make the bench.

Cut off the cancer. COYB
Ciarán McGlone
129   Posted 26/05/2010 at 09:19:13

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I short Dave.

Bollocks.

You've danced around this, telling people not to presume - and all you've done is presume, and then deny you did it. Now you're denying you stated Pienaar was being ill-treated ...when you quite categorically stated that the club were angling to offer him less than he's was 'worth' in order to flog him..

I haven't asked people to presume - therefore by presuming, I'm not being a hypocrite - I have absolutely no problem on presuming on the greed of footballers...And guess what - i'm normally bloody right.

We had the same shit last year...with the usual naive people thinking that Lescott was going to stay...Guess what, he didn't. And it was obvious a mile away - and this one's pretty obvious too.

And to suggest that Steven's agent is not working to Steven's agenda is just nonsense...Two people indeed. One agenda!
Trevor Lynes
130   Posted 26/05/2010 at 10:27:03

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I think that a lot of stupid conjecture is being written and most of the vitriol against a player who has ALWAYS turned in a 100% effort is baseless and cruel.
Whatever his reasons for wanting to leave....he has been our most consistent player and never shirks in any game he plays.
If any player at the club is earning more than Pienar it is WRONG and I do not blame him if all he is seeking is parity.
We will never get the truth either from the player or the club and this stupid matter should be closed.
Dave Wilson
131   Posted 26/05/2010 at 10:10:38

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Two facts

1) I have never said Pienaar has been ill treated,
2) I have said lesser players have earned more.

Try to understand theres a fucken difference.

Pienaar and his agent do want the same thing, but your nailing Pienaar for statements his Agent is making.
You and I want the same thing - success for Everton - but I would be greatly distressed if somebody associated me with some of the shite you come out with.

If Pienaar is the greedy bastard you make him out to be, the idea of cashing in would be the most presumptuous of all. He will Merely dig his heels, refuse to go anywhere for the next 9 months, then negotiate a signing on fee beyond his wildest . . . . whether you, or the clowns you say are acting in the clubs best interest like it or not
Ciarán McGlone
132   Posted 26/05/2010 at 10:58:28

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Paul Gladwell: Dave, do you honestly believe Everton have not offered him as much as Cahill and Co?

Dave Wilson: Paul
To be honest, no I don't. His agent clearly states this to be the case and unless the club refute his claims I have no reason to disbelieve him.

Dave Wilson: his agent clearly states others are earning more than he's being offered, that's the problem.

--------------------------

His agent didn't state this. So wrong on count number one.





-----------------------------------------
Dave Wilson: do you think offering a man considerably less than he's worth in the hope that another club will come in with the sort of offer that will keep the wolves from the door for another season is acting in the best interest of the club?

---------------------------------

This is YOU, quite categorically suggesting that Pienaar is being ill-treated by the club. You are producing your presumptive opinion as a fact..

So, on count number two....er...wrong.

Dave, at least admit your own words. You're getting rather silly...
Dave Wilson
133   Posted 26/05/2010 at 11:23:12

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Point 1) oh yes he did

Point 2) The clue is in the question mark. its clearly my opinion, my belief . . but where do I present it as fact ?

Besides if you think a club deciding to unload a player constitutes ill treatment either most of the players who have ever been transferred have been ill treated, or your talking some more of that shite.

Ill treatment ? are you serious ? these players can be set for life in one move . . I wish to fuck somebody would ill treat me like that
Sam Hoare
134   Posted 26/05/2010 at 12:02:41

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For what its worth i reckon he's on his way. Not keen on it but think Spurs is his next home.

£5m and Jamie O hara is probably about right. Not totally convinced by Ohara but good left foot, young and Moyes type player.

Or straight swap with Bentley?

Trouble is only a year left on his contract means we're not really calling the shots.
Ciarán McGlone
135   Posted 26/05/2010 at 12:42:08

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Christ Dave,

You aint half wriggling here...You can always tell when you're struggling - you resort to telling people they always talk shite. A predictable invective.



Perhaps you can find that quote from the agent...

Anthony Fox
136   Posted 26/05/2010 at 13:12:44

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I don't understand why everyone is giving him such a hard time for wanting to be on par with the top earners. He has 1 year left on his contract, is 29, won the Player of the Season award and is arguably the (or one of the) most creative players in the team. (without him and Arteta, we are far poorer side.) So I'm not surprised he wants to be a top earner.

Are you telling me the Yak deserves to be paid more than him, or even Saha who is constantly injured?? Heitinga came in on £60k a week before he even kicked a ball... I don't see why we can't put Pienaar on the same money knowing how influential he is. In any other working environment, he would be walking away as he the best worker is getting paid lower than other lazy, not as good people in his "office".

Tony J Williams
137   Posted 26/05/2010 at 13:28:13

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Anthony, I think that most of these arguments are that no-one knows what he has been offered. Who knows? We may have offered to break the pay scale but as his agent would have been listening to Merson on Soccer Saturday saying he would fit right in at Arsenal, they could believe he is worth even more.

I personally don't think he is, he is a great player but not "World Class" and I doubt that any side in teh Sky 4 would want him, so the Champions League is out of the question for an English side.

He may go back abroad, let him I say. He is not irreplaceable, no one is but don't for one minute think greed has nothing to do with it, of course it does, he want's more, which is the very deffinition of greed, wanting more than what you have already.

I bet if he does stay and gets a massive increase that "His God" won't see an effing penny of it.
Anthony Fox
138   Posted 26/05/2010 at 14:14:17

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You're right, Tony, we don't know what he has been offered as the silence is deafening once again from the club. I'm sure if he had been offered the same as the top earners then Everton would have been out saying "we have a wage structure that can't be broken".

I for one hope he does stay as playing wise he is a breath of fresh air and I just hope that, if he does, people don't give him a hard time for wanting to be paid the same as people who haven't performed as well as him and in most supporter's eyes are not going to in the future.

The guy is coming to his prime... For god's sake offer him the same as the top earners and publicly say so. If he wants more, come out and say he wants more than the top earners and then sell him. Case closed.

Joel Webb
139   Posted 26/05/2010 at 14:14:24

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If it's gonna be Tottenham let's make it a straight swap for Modric plz.
Throw 'Arry Yobo too for good measure!
Mike Green
140   Posted 26/05/2010 at 14:58:27

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Wishful thinking Joel, he'd not swap Modric in a month of Sundays, better player only 24yrs old etc...

Sam - there is an argument that he could send Bentley our way (good player but not on my Xmas list) but dont think that'll happen either - having him on the bench at Sp*rs offers great cover.

Will he stay or will he go......? My bet now is he goes for £9m.
Ciarán McGlone
141   Posted 26/05/2010 at 15:10:12

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I'd be happy with 9 mill..i'd also be happy with Bentley.
Mike Green
142   Posted 26/05/2010 at 15:11:14

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I'm sure you'd be very happy with Bentley, Ciaran.
Steve Edwards
143   Posted 26/05/2010 at 16:39:35

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Anthony — In a nutshell, this is Everton up to their old tricks.
Luke Berry
144   Posted 27/05/2010 at 16:54:59

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Love him but he's not irreplaceable; Ben Arfa for instance? He's younger quicker and naturally left sided and IMO is more skilful.

And what about this for a posuer, Eduardo to replace The Yak? Both are reasonably priced and would give EFC a new dimension.

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