The Mail Bag
Pienaar should stay at Goodison
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If there was ever a great example of a player who has been moulded by Moyes to bring out the best in that player within a structured team pattern and ethic, then that player is Pienaar.
Against Mexico and Uraguay he had been played (what for Everton would have been) out of position. For the Blues he plays wide and cuts in, runs back and supports the defence, links passes with midfield. In these two games he has played forward and behind a lone striker and has looked average and has been the coach's first choice to substitute in both games so far.
He needs to think long and hard before leaving Goodison. For us he plays in a pattern which suits him and Everton. I'm not sure he will fit in so well elsewhere... the Arse play a different more fluid system and Spurs are different again. On the basis of his performance in a different system tonight I would seriously doubt his ability to adapt to another style of play.
Steve Guy, Posted 16/06/2010 at 21:10:24
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I was listening to DM commentating on the game and he was urging that SP should be moved wide left or maybe right where he plays for us. He moved out to the right as the 2nd half went on and seemed to link up the play a lot better, and SA finally got a few crosses in. I would agree that he should think long and hard before leaving us because, as we know, it it ain't broke don't fix it. That South African team would not survive in the Premier League.
I thought Pienaar was flogging a dead horse tonight, the way his team mates continually surrendered possesion was criminal.
Have to agree, Stephen has looked quite ordinary in the tournament so far. Hopefully, when he next meets his agent prior to playing contract hardball with Everton, they will reminisce about the good old Borussia days and maybe the Everton days ain't so bad afterall.
Problem is if he doesn't sign a new contract now, we'll get peanuts for him.
Boom, boom!
Boom, boom!
I felt a bit sorry for him tonight, he kept dropping into pockets of space and getting into good areas but they weren't giving him the ball and he was starting to get frustrated.
I'm glad he's had a shit World Cup so far cos then he won't draw any more attention to himself or persuade suitors he's got what it takes to take top tournaments or big games by storm and convince other clubs that are interested in him that he is definitely the kind of player they need.
Like one of you has said, the role and position he plays within our team suits him and us and we get the best out of him. Elsewhere, it might not work out for him; can he risk going to another club for it not to work out for him and maybe not get played due to this at this stage of his career? I'm not so sure, he may as well stay cos he's good for us and we're good for him.
I'm glad he's had a shit World Cup so far cos then he won't draw any more attention to himself or persuade suitors he's got what it takes to take top tournaments or big games by storm and convince other clubs that are interested in him that he is definitely the kind of player they need.
Like one of you has said, the role and position he plays within our team suits him and us and we get the best out of him. Elsewhere, it might not work out for him; can he risk going to another club for it not to work out for him and maybe not get played due to this at this stage of his career? I'm not so sure, he may as well stay cos he's good for us and we're good for him.
My thoughts exactly Steve. If he does move, watch him fade into obscurity. His head has grown to giant proportions playing for us. Bainesy makes the runs to make him look good, as well as team tactics.
He will be adding his name to a long list of failures if he does go. He is a good player who doesn't score enough goals, and probably a greedy money-grubbing bastard.
He will be adding his name to a long list of failures if he does go. He is a good player who doesn't score enough goals, and probably a greedy money-grubbing bastard.
I agree totally but if he wants a go at the champions league that is one hell of a lure. I don't think you will get many premiership footballers doubting if they have the mentality to succeed at a new club either, surely he must have the confidence to think he could do it.
It is easy for us to sit here and say that he would be best staying a big fish at EFC. I subscribe to that view, same for Arteta. But it must be hard for a player to see this and turn down the glizty champions league (of course assuming its an option). I don't mean to sound negative i am just trying to divorce sentiment from the old pienaar arguement
It is easy for us to sit here and say that he would be best staying a big fish at EFC. I subscribe to that view, same for Arteta. But it must be hard for a player to see this and turn down the glizty champions league (of course assuming its an option). I don't mean to sound negative i am just trying to divorce sentiment from the old pienaar arguement
Good post.
Facts are he suits us and we suit him. He plays regaularly for us, would he for all these other sides waiting for his signature ?
To be honest i would be suprised if pienaar was a success anywhere else. Thats not to say i want him to go but I would sell now rather than have him leave for nothing next year. The club are far bigger than any player.
Facts are he suits us and we suit him. He plays regaularly for us, would he for all these other sides waiting for his signature ?
To be honest i would be suprised if pienaar was a success anywhere else. Thats not to say i want him to go but I would sell now rather than have him leave for nothing next year. The club are far bigger than any player.
You cannot judge his adaptability based on two performances alongside ten no-marks nobody has ever heard of. Messi would struggle to look good in a South Africa shirt. They are for a man a bunch of semi-professionals with the sole exception of Pienaar (and Masilela if you want to be nit-picky about it).
And I think most managers would see it that way — Pienaar will almost certainly leave Everton this summer; probably as early as within the next fortnight once South Africa lose to France. Why? Because he thinks he's a big fish in a small pond all of a sudden. He's neither a big fish and he's not in a small pond; he's just a complete idiot if he doesn't realise how good he has it here.
And I think most managers would see it that way — Pienaar will almost certainly leave Everton this summer; probably as early as within the next fortnight once South Africa lose to France. Why? Because he thinks he's a big fish in a small pond all of a sudden. He's neither a big fish and he's not in a small pond; he's just a complete idiot if he doesn't realise how good he has it here.
I think we sell to the highest bidder, no matter what happens at the World Cup. He has refused to sign a contract for some time now and as his existing contract runs out we'll get increasingly less or nothing.
He clearly has an attitude problem so this will send a message to the other players too that such antics aren't acceptable at Everton; nip what could potentially be a problem of players getting to big for their boots who start demanding excessive wages.
From both a squad and financial perspective, the logical answer in my eyes is sell to the highest bidder (even if it's the Red Shite).
He clearly has an attitude problem so this will send a message to the other players too that such antics aren't acceptable at Everton; nip what could potentially be a problem of players getting to big for their boots who start demanding excessive wages.
From both a squad and financial perspective, the logical answer in my eyes is sell to the highest bidder (even if it's the Red Shite).
I agree with Alex — we should pull any contract discussion away, transfer list him and get rid regardless of if he suddenly wants to stay, because squad harmony and the overall attitude at the club is much more important to Everton than Pienaar will ever be.
Would be delighted to get anywhere near £10M for him and then to watch him flop wherever he goes.
Would be delighted to get anywhere near £10M for him and then to watch him flop wherever he goes.
I think if he is out of the World Cup by next week, he is more likely to sign. He has played nowhere near the level he can which may help us keep hold.
I hope Cahill, Yak and Yobo will be back by next week too, a fully fit squad for the start of the season would be good!
If all return home after little or no success, they might feel they have something to prove!
Roll on the start of the season.
I hope Cahill, Yak and Yobo will be back by next week too, a fully fit squad for the start of the season would be good!
If all return home after little or no success, they might feel they have something to prove!
Roll on the start of the season.
Maybe he should have a word to Nick Barmby! They both played for Everton in a similar role and both had struggled at previous clubs and future in Barmby's case!
EFC will move on as Moyes is the main man, but would be nice to go into next season with some consistency.
Hope he stays... though not sure he will.
EFC will move on as Moyes is the main man, but would be nice to go into next season with some consistency.
Hope he stays... though not sure he will.
Pienaar was mediocre against Uruguay and Mexico. IMO, he goes to ground far too easily and when he does his pained facial expression is schoolboyish and annoying. I would not lose much sleep about transfer talk. The club does not cave in to his excessive wage demands.
Those who have been spouting £12-15M transfer fees on here for Pienaar need to reassess!! He's worth no more than half that amount and has looked no better than average at best. He'll be back with his tail between his legs and no doubt full of quotes about his love for Everton and never wanted to leave!! He should've been put on the transfer list when he got done for drink driving.
I only see him leaving if Moyes decides he needs to take a hike. No other reason. And damn right let him play out his contract. That he'll disrupt the changing room is a complete non-starter unless he's bent on career suicide.
This isn't 5 years ago. We have talent everywhere. He plays out his contract (which I don't believe), EFC has more than adequate talent to replace him and no one can deny DM got his moneys worth out of Stevie.
For all that, hope he stays and maybe some here should lighten up on him a little. He just wants to make more money. Like every other professional athlete.
This isn't 5 years ago. We have talent everywhere. He plays out his contract (which I don't believe), EFC has more than adequate talent to replace him and no one can deny DM got his moneys worth out of Stevie.
For all that, hope he stays and maybe some here should lighten up on him a little. He just wants to make more money. Like every other professional athlete.
I've heard from a very good source (yes I know not the mate of the girlfriend of Moysie's gardener) that Pienaar's rejected the final offer of £60k pw and that Spurs are willing to give him £90k pw, so it looks like he's offski.
I think he though he had a WIN-win...WIN, do good and move on for a big pay day... win, do poorly or average, stay for an improved pay rate.
Worth a shot I suppose, cost him nothing, what's not to like.
Oh well... back to Finch Farm on 4 more yrs at a higher pay rate.
I wish my bosses would offer me a fixed 4yrs at 10+% increase, with, if you get lucky, some glory and what passes for immortality in the footballing sense.
I don't see much about in South Africa unless you are maybe German or that Kiwi that scored their first ever goal.
Worth a shot I suppose, cost him nothing, what's not to like.
Oh well... back to Finch Farm on 4 more yrs at a higher pay rate.
I wish my bosses would offer me a fixed 4yrs at 10+% increase, with, if you get lucky, some glory and what passes for immortality in the footballing sense.
I don't see much about in South Africa unless you are maybe German or that Kiwi that scored their first ever goal.
David (60) - C'mon Brother. Here's a stretcher, off-season fun or not. You heard wage numbers so exact from Spurs, but no transfer fee numbers? None?
HaHa
Since you've clearly made this all up, make us up a transfer fee, would you. Peanuts has been an endless topic of convo since the season ended. Yet, this "good source" only discussed pay packets? How convenient for you.
HaHa
Since you've clearly made this all up, make us up a transfer fee, would you. Peanuts has been an endless topic of convo since the season ended. Yet, this "good source" only discussed pay packets? How convenient for you.
As Moysey said to him, "Everton are good for you".... good examples of this are now being seen in his World Cup displays. However, I'm sure this won't mean jack shit if his agent has his way..... watch this space!
Garry, just so I'm clear, when you say 'his agent' do you mean his REAL agent, or...erm you know..(points up)
He should be fucked off now. After Moyes re-igniting his career, he's turned gangster on him. He's not worth a balloon, even a rs one!!
Lads, you're forgetting; it's not up to Pienaar. It's up to God.
Can we wait to see if he leaves before calling him all the bastards under the sun?
Fuck me, we're a fickle lot.
From Player of the Season to Lucifer in a month.
If he reads how popular he is on here, would there be any wonder he'd be off.
From Player of the Season to Lucifer in a month.
If he reads how popular he is on here, would there be any wonder he'd be off.
Liam, I hope 'to God' that Pienaar does come on here and reads some of the opinions of the fans.
Fickle would imply an irrational or unwarranted change of opinion... but the greedy bastard is holding the club to ransom and some fans rightly don't agree with his attitude or behaviour — ESPECIALLY after being rewarded Player of the Season.
Fickle would imply an irrational or unwarranted change of opinion... but the greedy bastard is holding the club to ransom and some fans rightly don't agree with his attitude or behaviour — ESPECIALLY after being rewarded Player of the Season.
If God gets 15 per cent of any Pienaar deal, he can bleeding well stump up for the Pope to traipse round Britain, instead of us weary taxpayers. And I'm a Catholic (lapsed)!
Ego, amnesia and reality
Ego — I like Pienaar and rate him a good player, who at times can be very good. Great? .... eh, no. "If you know your history" and all that will throw up a number of Everton players who fall into that category and Pienaar isn't one of them. The problem is that his Ego tells him differently...
Amnesia — David Moyes rescued his career, something "our Peanuts" can't seem to remember.
Reality — Great players light up World Cups. Pienaar has simply failed to do this. We can be blinkered and say he's playing in a very average team or that the Manager's tactics aren't the best. However, the cold, stark reality is that he has been shown up to be what he is.
Mike; When you say "great players light up World Cups," who are the great players who have lit this one up so far?
And when you say he`s been shown up, would that apply to the likes of Inesta, Gerrard, Xavi, Kaka, Rooney... and all those other so-called world class players who have done no more than Pienaar, despite playing in vastly superior teams?
Shown up? He was shown up last season when he was our Player of the Season, despite earning less than lesser players.
I seem to remember Cahill saying he and others would consider moving on if we failed to qualify for Europe... soon changed his mind when the cash was flashed though, didn't he?
This targeting of Pienaar is disgusting, he is no different to anyone at our club... including the manager.
And when you say he`s been shown up, would that apply to the likes of Inesta, Gerrard, Xavi, Kaka, Rooney... and all those other so-called world class players who have done no more than Pienaar, despite playing in vastly superior teams?
Shown up? He was shown up last season when he was our Player of the Season, despite earning less than lesser players.
I seem to remember Cahill saying he and others would consider moving on if we failed to qualify for Europe... soon changed his mind when the cash was flashed though, didn't he?
This targeting of Pienaar is disgusting, he is no different to anyone at our club... including the manager.
Alex,
I see a lad who will see this as being his last major pay deal at top level football and he wants parity with the top earners as he's undoubtedly one of our better footballers.
Moyes arguably held the club to ransom last year and Arteta still hasn't signed, but they haven't got this abuse.
A talented player trying to get the best deal he can is not a crime imo.
I see a lad who will see this as being his last major pay deal at top level football and he wants parity with the top earners as he's undoubtedly one of our better footballers.
Moyes arguably held the club to ransom last year and Arteta still hasn't signed, but they haven't got this abuse.
A talented player trying to get the best deal he can is not a crime imo.
Eugene 22- I mean the agent who takes a nice bunce.
Also, I assume when you say "points up" you mean God upstairs....... well, I'm afraid all his religous image went out the window with me when he got done for drinking driving/ women beating/swearing etc etc..
Also, I assume when you say "points up" you mean God upstairs....... well, I'm afraid all his religous image went out the window with me when he got done for drinking driving/ women beating/swearing etc etc..
Dave
I agree that so far the World Cup has been disappointing and that those players considered to be "great" have failed to spark. My suspicion is that at some point Messi et al's talent will shine through.
As I said, I like Pienaar and think on his day he's a very GOOD player. He certainly attempted to fill the "creative void" left by Arteta's injury last season. But GREAT ... IMO no.
You are right in saying that why should Pienaar be singled out when the modern day footballer/manager is no more than a mercenary. Would Cahill have beat his true blue Everton chest, kissed the badge whilst barely holding back tears of profound love if we had asked him to take a 20% pay cut to help the club's finances? Personally, I doubt it.
As has been debated many times before, I believe that the obscene money being paid out is to the detriment of the game. Pienaar has had his career rescued by DM, he's paid a lot of money for his services, he has the adulation of the Goodison faithful and can see the Club is going in the right direction. Call me naive, but is loyalty too much to ask for?
Dave W - your last post summed it up nicely. Amusing and ridiculous the knee-jerk nonsense that some fans spout. There are games in which Rooney looks rubbish, usually because he's played out of position. Pienaar is an excellent footballer and the recent comments of Wenger bear that out.
I still think his head has been turned too much on his worth. His transfer value is easily £15m, contrary to some of the negativity posted here. The vast majority of people move jobs (and this is his job) for income & opportunity. So, regardless of what WE think of the beauty of EFC, if Pienaar is indeed offered both a significant pay rise AND Champions League football, then what would YOU do in his place?
If he moves (as I suspect he will), nobody knows how it will turn out. Yes, Everton have helped to resurrect his career and he is now playing fabulously. But he may do it elsewhere, or he may not.
He's an excellent player with many great qualities, I hope he stays, I suspect he won't, but can we please avoid some of the silliness on him being average (or worse), worth less than half of £15m, can only play well in an Everton shirt etc etc. Ridiculous.
I still think his head has been turned too much on his worth. His transfer value is easily £15m, contrary to some of the negativity posted here. The vast majority of people move jobs (and this is his job) for income & opportunity. So, regardless of what WE think of the beauty of EFC, if Pienaar is indeed offered both a significant pay rise AND Champions League football, then what would YOU do in his place?
If he moves (as I suspect he will), nobody knows how it will turn out. Yes, Everton have helped to resurrect his career and he is now playing fabulously. But he may do it elsewhere, or he may not.
He's an excellent player with many great qualities, I hope he stays, I suspect he won't, but can we please avoid some of the silliness on him being average (or worse), worth less than half of £15m, can only play well in an Everton shirt etc etc. Ridiculous.
Derek - I have to correct you. NZ scored 2 goals v the Scots in '82 which effectively sent them home. We were 3-2 down and dreaming of a draw but lost 2-5 in the end.
Our result v Slovakia was our first points in the World Cup Finals. What a buzz.
Can someone tell me what our top salary earner is per week? I was talking to a mate tonight (happy Chelsea supporter) who said J Cole is leaving Chelsea as they wouldn't increase his £90k/wk to £130k/wk. Not bad for a sub. I said I didn't think our top earner earned £90k/wk. I think the Kiwi captain Ryan Nelson is on £50k/wk at Blackburn.
Haha... Oi Kirwin — Sort your opinions out.
Your post balanced? Shame on you!
The only thing I'd question is Pienaar's value with 1 year left and a dodgy World Cup under his belt. No more than £8 mill for me.
Your post balanced? Shame on you!
The only thing I'd question is Pienaar's value with 1 year left and a dodgy World Cup under his belt. No more than £8 mill for me.
What a load of shit. To paraphrase from the bible, let he who has never angled for a pay rise cast the first stone.
I read posts claiming Pienaar is holding the club to "ransom". Oh yeah? And how do you know what his exact demands are? Some bull shit rumour from a mate of a mate or from reading it in the Sun?
How do we know he is not asking for parity with other players, for example?
He deserves to earn the going rate for his performances and if he can't get that at our club because we are too skint, well, that's par for the course for our football club.
And debates about whether he is worth $60k or $90k or whatever are pointless. He will be benchmarked against his peers (ie professional footballers), where even mediocre Premier League players can earn ridiculous salaries (take the example of the entire Portsmouth squad).
I read posts claiming Pienaar is holding the club to "ransom". Oh yeah? And how do you know what his exact demands are? Some bull shit rumour from a mate of a mate or from reading it in the Sun?
How do we know he is not asking for parity with other players, for example?
He deserves to earn the going rate for his performances and if he can't get that at our club because we are too skint, well, that's par for the course for our football club.
And debates about whether he is worth $60k or $90k or whatever are pointless. He will be benchmarked against his peers (ie professional footballers), where even mediocre Premier League players can earn ridiculous salaries (take the example of the entire Portsmouth squad).
'"PIENAAR ON BRINK OF EXIT"
What a headline that is to have on the official site. It of course refers to the South Africa team effectively being knocked out of the World Cup but, given all the speculation of his future, this headline at first made me think that he had been sold!!!!
What a headline that is to have on the official site. It of course refers to the South Africa team effectively being knocked out of the World Cup but, given all the speculation of his future, this headline at first made me think that he had been sold!!!!
Fair enough, Mike. I'm not 100% convinced by claims that Moyes rescued Pienaar's career.
Granted, Pienaar had struggled in Germany; that's why we got him so cheaply, but he had long since been recognised as a talent.
We struggled big time early this season and our revival coincided with the Pienaar's return, I think it would be more accurate to say that Pienaar was far more instrumental in rescuing Moyes's season — and therefor his reputation — than the other way around.
Moyes got this lad for a song, he paid him relatively low wages in return for some quite brilliant performances. If he stays, we have a great player... and if he goes, we will make a huge profit.
If you're looking for the guy who got the best out of this deal, don't look at the player.
Granted, Pienaar had struggled in Germany; that's why we got him so cheaply, but he had long since been recognised as a talent.
We struggled big time early this season and our revival coincided with the Pienaar's return, I think it would be more accurate to say that Pienaar was far more instrumental in rescuing Moyes's season — and therefor his reputation — than the other way around.
Moyes got this lad for a song, he paid him relatively low wages in return for some quite brilliant performances. If he stays, we have a great player... and if he goes, we will make a huge profit.
If you're looking for the guy who got the best out of this deal, don't look at the player.
I don't think we're being fickle. We voted this guy our Player of the Season and now he wants to play for someone else. Everton and Moyes turned his career round. As highlighted in the main article, Pienaar has shown he's not very adaptable. I actually think it's Pienaar who's the fickle one here.
I know it's only gossip but I heard Lescott's been told he can leave Man City. Watch and learn, Pienaar.
I know it's only gossip but I heard Lescott's been told he can leave Man City. Watch and learn, Pienaar.
I really don't see how we're being "fickle" here - the lad was badly off form in Germany, lacked physicality, nobody wanted to take a punt on him as they felt he was too weak, Moyes takes a punt and turns him into a top talent.
Actually, it's only this season he's been a "top talent". People have short memories — this is the same Pienaar who used to run down blind alleys, shoot from ridiculous angles and go missing for half the game, week-in, week-out.
So, for him to come out and be yet another player to treat Everton as a stepping stone is, quite rightly, disgusting for a lot of Everton fans — myself included — and I would personally rather see him shipped off than given any improved contract after his behaviour.
It's time to put a foot down and declare we're a top side and we're not going to be held to ransom by mercenaries; especially when we have the squad depth now to easily compensate the departure of Pienaar without too many worries.
Mark my words — Bilyaletdinov will be a player this year on the back of a fully rested pre-season and a year in England behind him. It took Pienaar the same amount of time to adjust.
Actually, it's only this season he's been a "top talent". People have short memories — this is the same Pienaar who used to run down blind alleys, shoot from ridiculous angles and go missing for half the game, week-in, week-out.
So, for him to come out and be yet another player to treat Everton as a stepping stone is, quite rightly, disgusting for a lot of Everton fans — myself included — and I would personally rather see him shipped off than given any improved contract after his behaviour.
It's time to put a foot down and declare we're a top side and we're not going to be held to ransom by mercenaries; especially when we have the squad depth now to easily compensate the departure of Pienaar without too many worries.
Mark my words — Bilyaletdinov will be a player this year on the back of a fully rested pre-season and a year in England behind him. It took Pienaar the same amount of time to adjust.
Well said Lee Kidd #41.
This is basically the post I was about to respond to Liam Reilly :)
This is basically the post I was about to respond to Liam Reilly :)
He peed me off going to the World Cup and putting himself in the shop window before signing a new contract. Delighted he was spanked last night and will be back on Merseyside sooner than later. Has not increased his value or bargaining power on a new contract. Justice done.
What irks me about Pienaar is not that he might be angling for a move but this "it's up to God" stance, supposedly absolving him of responsibility. As others have pointed out, it's not exactly unique, or even terribly greedy of him (unless you're a saint) of him to try and maximise his earnings, but have the balls to admit it.
Post #30 — spot on!!
On another note, I need to get this off my chest... basically cos it was raised on Forum 606 that Moyes likes Suarez from Uruguay.
If we end up going for that little shit, I'll be spitting blood... I wanted to stick my vuvuzela so far up his rectum last night he could have blown it himself — what diving cheating little fucker!!!!
Thank you... With that, Pienaar is trying as hard as ever... but the SA team just hasn't rocked up. Uruguay showed more passion last night... I was very disappointing indeed. So much expected of Modise... completely anonomous. Too much is expected of Pienaar — he can't do it all himself.
On another note, I need to get this off my chest... basically cos it was raised on Forum 606 that Moyes likes Suarez from Uruguay.
If we end up going for that little shit, I'll be spitting blood... I wanted to stick my vuvuzela so far up his rectum last night he could have blown it himself — what diving cheating little fucker!!!!
Thank you... With that, Pienaar is trying as hard as ever... but the SA team just hasn't rocked up. Uruguay showed more passion last night... I was very disappointing indeed. So much expected of Modise... completely anonomous. Too much is expected of Pienaar — he can't do it all himself.
Lee, Alex;
You are both assuming that he is in fact using Everton as a stepping stone. He's asking for a pay rise as most of us have probably done in the past. We know he's rejected the offer from the club, but we don't know what the offer was.
You are both assuming that he is in fact using Everton as a stepping stone. He's asking for a pay rise as most of us have probably done in the past. We know he's rejected the offer from the club, but we don't know what the offer was.
The fact is, most of the players who play for Everton will never have the same affinity for the club as the supporters. It's his job, it's a short career and he wants the same cash as his considered peers. That's life.
Dave,
Our increase in form also coincided with the arrival of Donovan... you know, yer man you keep slating?
Pienaar was also turd for the first part of the season... along with the rest of the team — so this repeated and rather short sighted analysis that our glorious form after Chrimbo was all Pienaar's doing — is nonsense.
Pienaar is no better a player than Donovan. Yet you curiously have a hard on for one, and a brickbat for the other.
Our increase in form also coincided with the arrival of Donovan... you know, yer man you keep slating?
Pienaar was also turd for the first part of the season... along with the rest of the team — so this repeated and rather short sighted analysis that our glorious form after Chrimbo was all Pienaar's doing — is nonsense.
Pienaar is no better a player than Donovan. Yet you curiously have a hard on for one, and a brickbat for the other.
Ciarán, I agree with your middle paragraph, but not your last one. Differing qualities between Pienaar and Donovan, and the former are held in higher premium I'd say. I don't imagine Wenger will be trying to sign Landon any time soon.
Differing qualities indeed... but if I was was to rate them in terms of quality, they'd get the same rating. Donovan can miss an open net... Pienaar can forget how to pass, or develop a Messi complex without the skill...
For me, they're much or a muchness. The difference is minimal.
Certainly in terms of their impact upon our game. They both provide outlets and the both provide a passing and offensive option, if no end product. It was no coincidence that, when we lost that balance at the end of the season, we effectively lost our mojo...
For me, they're much or a muchness. The difference is minimal.
Certainly in terms of their impact upon our game. They both provide outlets and the both provide a passing and offensive option, if no end product. It was no coincidence that, when we lost that balance at the end of the season, we effectively lost our mojo...
Completely agree with Ciaran - two differing players, but very much similar in the effectiveness of what they do in their role.
The other point is that, even if Donovan or Pienaar don't appear in the shocking pink next year, Everton won't be mortally damaged because of it.
Liam Reilly: It's not about Pienaar not having affinity for the club — far from it. In fact, if he come out and said "I want to try something new at a different club", we'd all be wishing him luck. No, the nuisance is the way he's done things — he hasn't asked to go, he's simply being ambiguous and playing the club and fans for his own selfish reasons. Everton fans can accept the likes of the Gravesen situation (all of us wished him well when Madrid came calling), but what we can't accept is when a player is being a complete twat.
Simply put, if he wants to leave, he should say he wants to leave and do it, rather than leaving it "up to God".
Complete pillock. The more I think about it, the more I definitely don't want him in a pink shirt next year.
The other point is that, even if Donovan or Pienaar don't appear in the shocking pink next year, Everton won't be mortally damaged because of it.
Liam Reilly: It's not about Pienaar not having affinity for the club — far from it. In fact, if he come out and said "I want to try something new at a different club", we'd all be wishing him luck. No, the nuisance is the way he's done things — he hasn't asked to go, he's simply being ambiguous and playing the club and fans for his own selfish reasons. Everton fans can accept the likes of the Gravesen situation (all of us wished him well when Madrid came calling), but what we can't accept is when a player is being a complete twat.
Simply put, if he wants to leave, he should say he wants to leave and do it, rather than leaving it "up to God".
Complete pillock. The more I think about it, the more I definitely don't want him in a pink shirt next year.
Oh dear, Ciaran; You`ll never learn, lad.
Pienaar spent much of the early part of the season out through injury. He returned after a lengthy layoff at Hull; from there on in, Everton's form improved. We were well into our unbeaten run by the time Landon arrived... in fact, I seem to remember Landon looking on from the stands as Pienaar ran the opposition ragged, scoring in what was another MOTM performance.
Strangely enough, we came unstuck a couple of times when Landon was here, But didn't lose after he`d gone. When Landon was benched for the final third of his loan period (thanks for reminding me, David), Pienaar just went from strength to strength.
But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of another crackpot theory.
This isn't a Donovan thread, but I`ll point this out to you anyway: Telling a few facts about Donovan being dropped or that he misses sitters isn't slating him, it's just a reality check for the people who pretend neither happened. I quite liked Landon, I just didn't share your schoolgirl-type crush on him.
"Pienaar Is no better than Donovan" — Careful lad, your understanding of the game is beginning to show.
Dave, I agree that the return of Pienaar signalled a change in our fortunes. I think, however, that you underestimate the effect Donovan had. He added something different to the mix and I think his impact was off the pitch as well as on.
Maybe, Andy...
Again, this is not a Landon thread and I don't mean to sound down on him, he is a charming young fella and Moyes himself would back up your opinion.
He did a decent job for us when we needed players badly. It's just the way people go into denial when a few facts are presented that I don't get.
I take it you have your sombrero on watching this game?
On that subject, Dave, the Mexicans in their green shirts remind me of a certain game in Paris not so long ago.
Au revoir, Les Bleus!
Ahhh, the world according to Dave.
Remind me again Dave... how did Pienaar start the season last year?
...And how consistent was he the season before that?
Maybe once he shows a bit of consistency, then your glorification might have some merit.
There's not much point debating this, as you appear to be in a double bind as to the sanctity of your own opinion. The fact that you can't even recognise that the balance provided by Donovan was as influential as Pienaar last season in our improved play speaks volumes. Pity.
ps: Stop going on about the fact that we didn't loose a game after Donovan left... our standard of play dropped considerably and we drew games we would have won two months earlier. No doubt you'll deny that as well...
Remind me again Dave... how did Pienaar start the season last year?
...And how consistent was he the season before that?
Maybe once he shows a bit of consistency, then your glorification might have some merit.
There's not much point debating this, as you appear to be in a double bind as to the sanctity of your own opinion. The fact that you can't even recognise that the balance provided by Donovan was as influential as Pienaar last season in our improved play speaks volumes. Pity.
ps: Stop going on about the fact that we didn't loose a game after Donovan left... our standard of play dropped considerably and we drew games we would have won two months earlier. No doubt you'll deny that as well...
I would go one step further than Ciaran but I do agree with the crux of his argument.
Donovan's early exit cost us Europe in my opinion. I would also rate Donovan higher than Pienaar. However, we played our best stuff with both of them in the team so it's a shame it looks like neither will be next season.
We need the flanks sorting out asap.
Slightly off point but did anyone else worry at how bad Yakubu looked today? No pace whatsoever and awful when shooting.
Donovan's early exit cost us Europe in my opinion. I would also rate Donovan higher than Pienaar. However, we played our best stuff with both of them in the team so it's a shame it looks like neither will be next season.
We need the flanks sorting out asap.
Slightly off point but did anyone else worry at how bad Yakubu looked today? No pace whatsoever and awful when shooting.
"Maybe once he shows a bit of consistancy, then your glorification may have some merit".
Ha Ha, he didn't just get MotM, or Player of the Month, he was our player of the SEASON — by a country mile. HOW CONSISTENT DO YOU WANT HIM TO BE ? . . .and just because I haven't jumped on your "guilty until proven innocent" bandwagon, doesn't mean I glorify him. I just know a player when I see one.
I`m out of this thread, because you have consistently tried to turn it into a Donovan thread (there's one currently running if you want to join that debate).
Maybe you thought there was mileage (and support) in dragging him into the debate with this comparison... there isn't — nor is there a comparison. When one was attracting the interest of the game's top managers, the other was getting dropped after playing half a dozen games.
If you want to make comparisons, make em with big Vic, he was the one who replaced him.
And if you don't like that, take it up with Moyes.
Ha Ha, he didn't just get MotM, or Player of the Month, he was our player of the SEASON — by a country mile. HOW CONSISTENT DO YOU WANT HIM TO BE ? . . .and just because I haven't jumped on your "guilty until proven innocent" bandwagon, doesn't mean I glorify him. I just know a player when I see one.
I`m out of this thread, because you have consistently tried to turn it into a Donovan thread (there's one currently running if you want to join that debate).
Maybe you thought there was mileage (and support) in dragging him into the debate with this comparison... there isn't — nor is there a comparison. When one was attracting the interest of the game's top managers, the other was getting dropped after playing half a dozen games.
If you want to make comparisons, make em with big Vic, he was the one who replaced him.
And if you don't like that, take it up with Moyes.
I wouldn't say "by a mile". In fact for me it was a straight toss up between Pienaar, Heitinga and Baines.
Oh, and use your head Dave - it was crystal clear Moyes wanted Anichebe up and running for when Donovan left so he gave him the game time.
'a country mile' is a different concept..
For me there was no stand out performer last season. Baines maintained his level with the most consistency throughout the season. Both Pienaar and Heitinga had dodgy spells.
Anyone with any sense would also probably admit that Donovan was also pretty consistent whenever he was on the pitch.
For me there was no stand out performer last season. Baines maintained his level with the most consistency throughout the season. Both Pienaar and Heitinga had dodgy spells.
Anyone with any sense would also probably admit that Donovan was also pretty consistent whenever he was on the pitch.
Why does Peanuts get all this crap and J Heitinga, who has said just as many obnoxious things, and who is yet to make a substantial contribution to EFC, given a relative pass? I hope it's not because folks think he's uppity. I want him to stay, I think he could thrive elsewhere, and that we would have a hard time filling the gap left by him. No, he's not Arteta, but he has certainly carried his weight.
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1 Posted 16/06/2010 at 21:42:28
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But, yes, I agree that he should stay at Goodison and his performances so far will likely not have convinced any potential suitors who weren't already sold on him from his Premier League campaign for us.