The Mail Bag
What price being in the 'Everton Family'?
Comments (37)
Seeing as we're apparently now offering Steven Pienaar £55k a week (when he could possibly earn more at a more lucrative club), I am interested to hear what you guys think being part of the Everton 'family' is worth in monetary terms — does it add, say £10k a week to someone? I know I'd take less money to feel more loved in my job. Maybe it means different things to different players, I'm thinking about the 'journeymen', the 'one-club players' or the 'mercenaries' here.
Could it be about happiness? Or security? Being part of a loving family where you feel you have a part to play and where you feel a 'belonging' — that's got to be worth more than money, no?
I certainly think that having a manager stick around allows a team to nurture their 'family' — more so than if you chopped and changed each season. So, when we offer a player £55k, are we actually offering them more than someone like Tottenham/Chelsea/Man City, when they will pay the same player £65k?
,p.
What is our 'family' worth?
Andy Whittingham, Posted 20/06/2010 at 17:27:38
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
I believe Pienaar would choose Everton if the financial offerings were the same as "the other team".
But, a bigger money offering would be the same as more security and better hopes for a happy future for the player and his family. His spouce, his children, parents, siblings. When it comes to the real family, sorry to say it, one can understand the player that chooses the money.
I can understand this. It does not mean I'm happy about it. But 'I do understand the players who sees this as a chance to provide for his family in a long-term perspective.
I believe Pienaar is happy at Everton. All pictures, and his playing, says so. He says so himself. But a big money offer sure is tempting, Even if the fans don't like it..
But, a bigger money offering would be the same as more security and better hopes for a happy future for the player and his family. His spouce, his children, parents, siblings. When it comes to the real family, sorry to say it, one can understand the player that chooses the money.
I can understand this. It does not mean I'm happy about it. But 'I do understand the players who sees this as a chance to provide for his family in a long-term perspective.
I believe Pienaar is happy at Everton. All pictures, and his playing, says so. He says so himself. But a big money offer sure is tempting, Even if the fans don't like it..
Mike #1, Footballers are employed workers and let's be honest, if the firm down the road offered us a hike in pay, we'd probably take it. To my mind the problem lies with the FA (never has an organisation been so aptly named) and/or Uefa for letting wage inflation get out of control knowing that clubs are being held to ransom by agents.
But to get back to Andy's point, I suppose most footballers think they have only 8-10 years to make a lot of money, so they'll screw as much out as they can get.
But to get back to Andy's point, I suppose most footballers think they have only 8-10 years to make a lot of money, so they'll screw as much out as they can get.
From what he has shown at the World Cup, I doubt another club would offer much more than what he is already on at Everton. With Baines backing him up, he does OK... but without that kind of support he is nothing special. He hits the deck far too easily and often for my liking. His crosses and fire power are not a patch on Donovan's.
If he stays, I hope it does not create financial jealousy within the squad.
The problem is that the likes of Tottenham, Chelsea, Man City aren't merely offering players £65k compared to our £55k. They're offering double in some instances.
Football is not about loyalty for Premier League players and the days of the one-club pro are almost at an end. It's all about the most lucrative contract their agent can screw out of a club. If they can earn more somewhere else then they will move on without a second thought — and a sense of belonging, gratitude to a manager, or an affinity with the fans doesn't mean shit anymore.
Football is not about loyalty for Premier League players and the days of the one-club pro are almost at an end. It's all about the most lucrative contract their agent can screw out of a club. If they can earn more somewhere else then they will move on without a second thought — and a sense of belonging, gratitude to a manager, or an affinity with the fans doesn't mean shit anymore.
I reckon it all depends on how happy you are with your own life now. If you're already a multi-millionaire (and most footballers are) and have everything you need or want, then £10k a week more isn't that much and I'd stay where I'm happy.
I'd like to think, if I had financial security under my belt, it would be about where I'd be happiest. I wouldn't see the point in Pienaar moving sideways for more money as he risks being in a team he doesn't fit into. You could understand moving for Champions League experience, but a team like Spurs might last as long as we did.
I just hope he is infected by the buzz around Everton after the performances in the 2nd half of last season. If we can keep the main squad together and add a few, we have a squad that could potentially win something and/or finish in the top 4!
I just hope he is infected by the buzz around Everton after the performances in the 2nd half of last season. If we can keep the main squad together and add a few, we have a squad that could potentially win something and/or finish in the top 4!
Hope he accepts as I really like him but, if not, should we cash in or keep him till his contract is up or get a reduced fee next January? My view is keep him — he only cost £2 mil and it would tell other clubs that we can't be bullied.
I don't believe a word of what the Mirror said anyway!
I'm sure I remember David Moyes saying something about the chief exec and the chairman doing the financial side of talks etc....
I think this is a semi rerun/rehash of a now "old" story.
Lazy journo's once again in my opinion!!!
I'm sure I remember David Moyes saying something about the chief exec and the chairman doing the financial side of talks etc....
I think this is a semi rerun/rehash of a now "old" story.
Lazy journo's once again in my opinion!!!
It works both ways;, we don't want Pienaar to go but if, we were offered silly money for him a la Lescott, we would take it — even if he didn't want to go.
Let's face it , on the evidence of his World Cup performances so far, I can't see clubs queuing up for him. He appears to be showing his old failings again, ie, he can't complete a pass, falls over a lot, and keeps losing possesion. If he wasn't already ours, honestly... would you want him?
Everton FC is only `a family` to those of us who support it. The days when the likes of Labby, Westy and Bally (my father`s heroes, I must add) would eulogise over `belonging to the family` have long gone and only the money really counts. `Who needs love, it's the lucre we wants!` Get real.
John Daley #5 and Richard Dodd #11
When you both say the days of player loyalty are long gone, may I please remind you of a guy called Tim Cahill who will be with us until he is 34, thus seeing out his professional career when IMHO he could go elsewhere and allow us to cash in.
When you both say the days of player loyalty are long gone, may I please remind you of a guy called Tim Cahill who will be with us until he is 34, thus seeing out his professional career when IMHO he could go elsewhere and allow us to cash in.
Failing acceptance of that name as an offering of a loyal player, how will you feel if & when Mikel Arteta re-signs with us when anyone knows there are few teams in the world who would not want him. We KNOW he could go to Arsenal, Man Shitteh, Tottenham and perhaps ManUre — all for embarrassingly/insultingly greater wages than he earns with us.
In the main, you are right in that most players (the vast majority) are just doing a job and, as such, merely follow the big money to secure their enviable lifestyle for the rest of their days. However, let's not forget that to every rule there are exceptions. I celebrate the fact that a club like Everton can engender such loyalty in some (especially some of such huge talent) desirable players, even though we are not presenting them with the medals and silverware they understandably crave as professionals... Yet!
Yeah, footballers really appreaciate intangible concepts like... er... being in the 'Everton family'.... I'm sure his agent will consider 'our family' as worth £10k a week.
Don't be so bloody naive... there's no such thing as 'the Everton family'. It's a job and we are the same as any other club — despite the gullible clap trap of some of our fans. End of story.
Don't be so bloody naive... there's no such thing as 'the Everton family'. It's a job and we are the same as any other club — despite the gullible clap trap of some of our fans. End of story.
Is this the Everton family where one-club players Osman and Hibbert continually get shit thrown at them?
I said at the time of the Rooney move that, if I was on £20k and Manyoo offered me £60k, I'd stay at Everton. I still would... but the day when professional footballers themselves would ended in my eyes when he signed the contract at OT.
I've no doubt he was a more fanatical Blue than I ever was but he still went. I can't get my head around that still but I'm not a professional footballer.
Ask the Manchester United players what it would have been worth to them 10-15 years ago. SAF is a case in point and I think to a certain extent Mourinho is too. These guys become father figures for their staff and nurture a supportive environment (even when handing out hairdryer treatment) and not many players would have swapped playing under him for an extra £10k. What both men have though, is almost iron clad guarantee of silverware. Something we have struggled to produce.
Pienaar spends a lot of time on the ground and that is true... BUT he takes players on and is fouled more often than most other players in the Premier League. Arteta is another who is often fouled for the same reason. They are the danger players to other teams!!
Cahill would not command anything like the transfer fee that Pienaar and Arteta attract... so him being a so-called 'true blue' is a question of him knowing that EFC is his best option financially. Everton's assets include Pienaar, Arteta, Fellaini and Rodwell — most of the others are in less demand elsewhere and would not be as valuable in a monetary way.
Let's face it... it's a business and a player's playing life is short... period!!
He is on the road and has no allegiance to the city of Liverpool or to Everton. Everton has taken him as no better than a squad player and they/he have transformed him into a saleable commodity and it is a free market. I'm sure that London on 80k a week is a no brainer for him. Everton must act like a business though and not a family. If he's dithering or has made up his mind to go then sell him for what we can get and find another, Moyes is good at that. There is no "family" in soccer now, it ended with the Premier League and Sky.
Mind you what would somebody pay for him now? Also what could be the point in letting his contract run down and letting him go for nothing? We love him but £20 million? Not a chance on this planet. Also these new FIFA regulations will limit how much Clubs can pay as salary compared to turnover. It's a good start but still enshrines the position of United, Arsenal and Chelsea at the top because of their high turnover.
Would anybody outside of the top 3 (and he wouldn't get off the bench for any of them) want say £80k a week worth of potentially average player (away from Everton and he has looked decidedly average in SA) under the new rules? Moyes is right not to offer a blank check for Pienaar, he really isn't that good.
I hope that he stays but not at the expense of destabilising the club. there are others who we need to stay far more than this little mercenary.
Mind you what would somebody pay for him now? Also what could be the point in letting his contract run down and letting him go for nothing? We love him but £20 million? Not a chance on this planet. Also these new FIFA regulations will limit how much Clubs can pay as salary compared to turnover. It's a good start but still enshrines the position of United, Arsenal and Chelsea at the top because of their high turnover.
Would anybody outside of the top 3 (and he wouldn't get off the bench for any of them) want say £80k a week worth of potentially average player (away from Everton and he has looked decidedly average in SA) under the new rules? Moyes is right not to offer a blank check for Pienaar, he really isn't that good.
I hope that he stays but not at the expense of destabilising the club. there are others who we need to stay far more than this little mercenary.
Eugh... Another Pienaar thread.
I am really rather tired of the whole Pienaar saga now, which was to be resolved before World Cup according to both parties.
Now it's fast becoming another Lescott debacle. It's not what we need to be concentrating on. Offer him a final offer on his return which will be soon and if he doesn't sign, so be it.
We need to focus on bringing in at least two quality additions to the first 11, not just squad fillers.
I am really rather tired of the whole Pienaar saga now, which was to be resolved before World Cup according to both parties.
Now it's fast becoming another Lescott debacle. It's not what we need to be concentrating on. Offer him a final offer on his return which will be soon and if he doesn't sign, so be it.
We need to focus on bringing in at least two quality additions to the first 11, not just squad fillers.
Maybe Pienaar, apart from more wages, wants to also win things, and he may think he has a better chance of doing it somewhere else.
I'm not sure this thread can go anywhere. Most of us would play for Everton for living expenses, but to the pros being at Everton makes very little differences so is worth nothing.
What matters is feeling settled and secure where they are, knowing they're part of the club and feeling a genuine relationship with the fans. They may feel they can go somewhere else and build this up, just whilst getting paid more money although having the same manager can be a big deal too. However, all this relies on a player making a sensible decision which may well cost him financially, and I don't see many occasions where that happens. I think we're lucky to have the likes of Cahill and Arteta rather than expecting the same from anyone else.
Pienaar's one of our most important players and I hope he stays, I still think there's a chance of that, particularly the way the World Cup has gone for him. However, I think it's far more realistic (or just pessimistic) to expect him to leave, and should he do so, he won't be as valuable or important to the club he goes to as he is here.
What matters is feeling settled and secure where they are, knowing they're part of the club and feeling a genuine relationship with the fans. They may feel they can go somewhere else and build this up, just whilst getting paid more money although having the same manager can be a big deal too. However, all this relies on a player making a sensible decision which may well cost him financially, and I don't see many occasions where that happens. I think we're lucky to have the likes of Cahill and Arteta rather than expecting the same from anyone else.
Pienaar's one of our most important players and I hope he stays, I still think there's a chance of that, particularly the way the World Cup has gone for him. However, I think it's far more realistic (or just pessimistic) to expect him to leave, and should he do so, he won't be as valuable or important to the club he goes to as he is here.
Cash is obviously king for the majority of PL players these days but, as Brian (20) suggests, it's also got to be about achieving, surely. With Pienaar, he needs to understand his worth in this respect. Yes, he could go to a club that may well win the PL in the next couple of years (top 3 basically) but he wouldn't see much pitch time and do you really want to be a Champion bench warmer for a bigger wedge?
IF (!) we can start to perform as we did in the last half of the season, keep the likes of him and the other key players and add Landon and or another class player or two, we would have a genuine chance of winning something soon. Let's be clear, not the league, but a cup or two at least.
Again a big IF, but if we can achieve this, we will grow and Pienaar has a chance of being a big part of massive growth at a great club. Basically, he fits here and if he moves for cash, the chances are that he won't get that back. He clearly struggles when he's not comfortable/loved (hence why we got him for £2 mil!). Yes, we need him, but does he not realize how much he needs us?!!!!
Most modern day footballers are only interested in the money. It is only us the fans who feel as if we are part of a family. I personally can't see any player saying they will stay if they are offered £10 grand more a week at another club.
In my opinion, if for example Pienaar was offered the chance to go to one of the top three (with increased wages), he would be out of Goodison in an instant and would not care less if he spent most of his time on the bench.
In my opinion, if for example Pienaar was offered the chance to go to one of the top three (with increased wages), he would be out of Goodison in an instant and would not care less if he spent most of his time on the bench.
Peter (8) - "My view is keep him — he only cost £2 mil and it would tell other clubs that we can't be bullied". At risk of encouraging more Peanuts discussion, I agree.
Ciaran (13) - Your eloquence got me thinking. We in the US are in the 4th decade of pro sports big salary/some player control over movement. Point being, the "Good Old Days" references are rare anymore. But what exactly were the good old days?
Iron control by owners, severe wage/movement restriction. Players forced to play many, many games/injured. Or else. Minimal/non-existant/primitive medical treatment. Media genuflecting to the team's party line and the player sold down the river if he opened his month. Ah, the Golden Era. In fantasy land.
And wages. What is this nonsense. The players always made way more money then the average guy. And let's look at the perks of "Family" life back then:
1. The player signed with the pro club would pay him.
2. How many times did the player "Have a beer in the local pub" because the food and drink were on the house? I'd bet most of the time. And in more than one pub, too.
3. Free movies, front of line at restaurants, money for appearances at functions, TV exposure, etc. The unselfishness of it all.
4. Do I even have to mention, all the pussy they could handle? How many husbands/fathers let players have a go at their wives/daughters? And if a player scored the goal made husband/father money on a wager? Oh my, wife and daughter both, right?
5. Let's never forget the Star who did build-up enough goodwill with local fans even the owner thought twice. How many games did said Star waltz through or act selfishly on the pitch, or be a complete cunt in the locker room/public. And got away with all of it because, after all, he's Family.
In professional sports, the Good Old Days never existed, except maybe for owners. In every way, the same now as then with a few more zeros added to the end of the pay check.
Let's remember, it's those extra zeros that have great players from everywhere on earth wanting into the EPL. Unless, of course, players were bigger, faster, more athletic and skilled back then too. HaHa.
Plus, lets' say most of us on holiday from our jobs are projected back to Goodison for a match in 1960. Watching the game and get to talking to the fellows around us, and mention what we do for a living and our wages (never mentioning we're from the future). Think we might cause some resentment?
Ciaran (13) - Your eloquence got me thinking. We in the US are in the 4th decade of pro sports big salary/some player control over movement. Point being, the "Good Old Days" references are rare anymore. But what exactly were the good old days?
Iron control by owners, severe wage/movement restriction. Players forced to play many, many games/injured. Or else. Minimal/non-existant/primitive medical treatment. Media genuflecting to the team's party line and the player sold down the river if he opened his month. Ah, the Golden Era. In fantasy land.
And wages. What is this nonsense. The players always made way more money then the average guy. And let's look at the perks of "Family" life back then:
1. The player signed with the pro club would pay him.
2. How many times did the player "Have a beer in the local pub" because the food and drink were on the house? I'd bet most of the time. And in more than one pub, too.
3. Free movies, front of line at restaurants, money for appearances at functions, TV exposure, etc. The unselfishness of it all.
4. Do I even have to mention, all the pussy they could handle? How many husbands/fathers let players have a go at their wives/daughters? And if a player scored the goal made husband/father money on a wager? Oh my, wife and daughter both, right?
5. Let's never forget the Star who did build-up enough goodwill with local fans even the owner thought twice. How many games did said Star waltz through or act selfishly on the pitch, or be a complete cunt in the locker room/public. And got away with all of it because, after all, he's Family.
In professional sports, the Good Old Days never existed, except maybe for owners. In every way, the same now as then with a few more zeros added to the end of the pay check.
Let's remember, it's those extra zeros that have great players from everywhere on earth wanting into the EPL. Unless, of course, players were bigger, faster, more athletic and skilled back then too. HaHa.
Plus, lets' say most of us on holiday from our jobs are projected back to Goodison for a match in 1960. Watching the game and get to talking to the fellows around us, and mention what we do for a living and our wages (never mentioning we're from the future). Think we might cause some resentment?
Sam (14): Spot on, and it's been that way since I started going in the 50s and let's not forget HK1 when he left he was critised for going by the same people baying for his blood before the team turned it round. Present-day players earn huge amounts so why should a South African or Spanish player play for less for us than any other PL team? Loyalty is not a consideration.
Playing for Chelsea... £150k per week
Playing for Man Utd... £125k per week
Playing for Spurs... £90k per week and a bowl of jellied Eels.
Playing for EFC... PRICELESS
Playing for Citteh... WORTHLESS
Playing for Man Utd... £125k per week
Playing for Spurs... £90k per week and a bowl of jellied Eels.
Playing for EFC... PRICELESS
Playing for Citteh... WORTHLESS
Sam Morrison #14 - Spot on. Sadly, a very good point. We don't appreciate full or truly value our prospective 'family' unless they are the of the stature of Arteta, etc.
Trevor Lynes #17 - Your point about Cahill is accepted (I even acknowledged it was arguable in my own piece) but mine remains valid. I believe he could have gone to other clubs for more money. If not at the point of signing, certainly at points in his career with us prior to that.
Ciaran McGlone #13 - As I have said on here in other threads, I often agree with your opinions. However, at times you can be an utter pompous prick! What you call 'gullible clap trap' the rest of us could read as qualified opinion. Where did you offer any qualification of your hysterical rant? Oh, okay. Thought not. Why don't you give Le Tiss a call and ask about club loyalty. He may be an ex-pro but that does not mean he is the last with loyalty to his employers. Okay then, try this article on for size
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8687672.stm
You are right Ciaran. No professional footballer has loyalty or honour in these times of the mighty dollar do they? ;o)
Trevor Lynes #17 - Your point about Cahill is accepted (I even acknowledged it was arguable in my own piece) but mine remains valid. I believe he could have gone to other clubs for more money. If not at the point of signing, certainly at points in his career with us prior to that.
Ciaran McGlone #13 - As I have said on here in other threads, I often agree with your opinions. However, at times you can be an utter pompous prick! What you call 'gullible clap trap' the rest of us could read as qualified opinion. Where did you offer any qualification of your hysterical rant? Oh, okay. Thought not. Why don't you give Le Tiss a call and ask about club loyalty. He may be an ex-pro but that does not mean he is the last with loyalty to his employers. Okay then, try this article on for size
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8687672.stm
You are right Ciaran. No professional footballer has loyalty or honour in these times of the mighty dollar do they? ;o)
As I've posted before Lee, I find it odd that so many fans bang on about loyalty from one player and in the same breath say we should get rid of another, or a third — playing in the MLS for instance — should tell his current club where to go so he can come to EFC. It's a ridiculous bit of double-standards and I can't believe how few people see it.
Lee,
Quite frankly, it's bollocks to suggest that being at Everton is worth an extra £10k a week to a player because of some sort of abstract and nonsensical notion that we are some sort of special effusive case! And to suggest that this abstract notion is qualifiable is equally bollocks.
If you believe that then you're naive... and if you feel the need to get personal to defend your naviety... then so be it.
Quite frankly, it's bollocks to suggest that being at Everton is worth an extra £10k a week to a player because of some sort of abstract and nonsensical notion that we are some sort of special effusive case! And to suggest that this abstract notion is qualifiable is equally bollocks.
If you believe that then you're naive... and if you feel the need to get personal to defend your naviety... then so be it.
Come on Ciaran you're either acting hurt or trying to take the moral high ground with Lee there (I'm not sure which one it is) and don't see that you really have the right. You don't exactly leave people with a warm fuzzy feeling yourself a lot of the time.
In fact I agree with what Lee's said, most of the time I agree with your opinion, but on many occasions I find the way you express it unnecessary. The people who are 'wrong' in our opinion don't have to be 'gullible', 'naive' or talking 'claptrap'.
They have a reasonable argument based more on the idea that a player can thrive and flourish in a stable environment over a long period of time rather than that its specifically Everton who can command this loyalty. There is some truth to it, I just don't see that many professional footballers see it that way, or that it's worth much money to them in terms of a salary reduction.
In fact I agree with what Lee's said, most of the time I agree with your opinion, but on many occasions I find the way you express it unnecessary. The people who are 'wrong' in our opinion don't have to be 'gullible', 'naive' or talking 'claptrap'.
They have a reasonable argument based more on the idea that a player can thrive and flourish in a stable environment over a long period of time rather than that its specifically Everton who can command this loyalty. There is some truth to it, I just don't see that many professional footballers see it that way, or that it's worth much money to them in terms of a salary reduction.
"Let's face it... it's a business"
Sorry I've just noticed that, and its one of my pet hates. Football, or any other sport for that matter, is not business. It is not art, it is not entertainment, it is not combat, it is not a tribal/religious substitute and it is not anything else that people try to claim it is in order to make their point.
Football is football, it is a sport. It belongs in its own category and not grouped in with any of the above. The characteristics of this category may include all of the above, but should never be simplistically reduced to one single one of them. Thus it is not unreasonable to expect a degree of player loyalty, as 'clubs' are concepts that go far beyond the reach of a business or company, and involve a much deeper emotional connection for many of the people involved. If you 'buy into' (ie sign for) a club, you buy into the emotional connection that people have. Therefore mercenary players who make it clear they don't give a shit shouldn't be accepted because hey, it's a business, they can be fairly pilloried and criticised by the fans whose emotional connection they betray.
Sorry, I just hate that reductive phrase being used to excuse all manner of ills.
Sorry I've just noticed that, and its one of my pet hates. Football, or any other sport for that matter, is not business. It is not art, it is not entertainment, it is not combat, it is not a tribal/religious substitute and it is not anything else that people try to claim it is in order to make their point.
Football is football, it is a sport. It belongs in its own category and not grouped in with any of the above. The characteristics of this category may include all of the above, but should never be simplistically reduced to one single one of them. Thus it is not unreasonable to expect a degree of player loyalty, as 'clubs' are concepts that go far beyond the reach of a business or company, and involve a much deeper emotional connection for many of the people involved. If you 'buy into' (ie sign for) a club, you buy into the emotional connection that people have. Therefore mercenary players who make it clear they don't give a shit shouldn't be accepted because hey, it's a business, they can be fairly pilloried and criticised by the fans whose emotional connection they betray.
Sorry, I just hate that reductive phrase being used to excuse all manner of ills.
Ciaran I must say I disagree with you. I believe there is intrinsic value for Piennar staying in that, he is appreciated by teammates, manager and fans, plays every week, seems content (other than pay packet) and has become one of main players in our team and how we play. Presumably, his family is settled also.
To say there is no value in this is simply wrong especially after his previous difficult times.
However, unfortunately, the monetary value I suspect for Piennar is relatively low, I suspect he would go somehwere else for £5k more a week. Also, elsewhere probably increases his earning potential considerably in terms of sponsorship.
I believe Piennar's decision all comes down to money.
That said, I get impression EFC want Piennar to go (despite the noises coming out) as they need to pay off debt.
To say there is no value in this is simply wrong especially after his previous difficult times.
However, unfortunately, the monetary value I suspect for Piennar is relatively low, I suspect he would go somehwere else for £5k more a week. Also, elsewhere probably increases his earning potential considerably in terms of sponsorship.
I believe Piennar's decision all comes down to money.
That said, I get impression EFC want Piennar to go (despite the noises coming out) as they need to pay off debt.
"Ciaran I must say I disagree with you. I believe there is intrinsic value for Piennar staying in that, he is appreciated by teammates, manager and fans, plays every week, seems content (other than pay packet) and has become one of main players in our team and how we play. Presumably, his family is settled also. "
-------------------------------------
"Presumably" being the operative word in that entire paragraph"...
Anyway, the point being made above is that we are some sort of special case of a football team – that has a rather hefty financial implication of adding £10k to our players' weekly salary. That's quite different from the point you're making.
-------------------------------------
"Presumably" being the operative word in that entire paragraph"...
Anyway, the point being made above is that we are some sort of special case of a football team – that has a rather hefty financial implication of adding £10k to our players' weekly salary. That's quite different from the point you're making.
"You don't exactly leave people with a warm fuzzy feeling yourself a lot of the time."
----------------------
I attack the argument Mike. Not the person.
There is a very obvious difference between the two.
----------------------
I attack the argument Mike. Not the person.
There is a very obvious difference between the two.
There's a value... but it's not necessarily our 'family feel'. The guy's career to date has been a bit of a flop for someone of his ability. Two league titles for Ajax (neither of which he was a key player in).
At his age, this is a vital contract for him. Yes, there will be a financial element but it also represents the period in his career which he will remember when he is retired. Regardless of this decision, he will be a wealthy man upon retirement.
Providing we satisfy him financially, the extra value comes from Everton convincing him that he can enjoy success with us, rather than at our rivals. I suspect whether he stays or goes will tell us more about Everton than it does about Steven Pienaar.
At his age, this is a vital contract for him. Yes, there will be a financial element but it also represents the period in his career which he will remember when he is retired. Regardless of this decision, he will be a wealthy man upon retirement.
Providing we satisfy him financially, the extra value comes from Everton convincing him that he can enjoy success with us, rather than at our rivals. I suspect whether he stays or goes will tell us more about Everton than it does about Steven Pienaar.
Ciaran #29, 33 & 34 — I get deja vu with your incapacity to read a full post.
Not once did I state our club was exclusive in expectation of loyalty. Not once did I state our club's 'family' had a value of £10k less per week. Not once did I demonstrate niaivety and my 'getting personal' was retaliatory as you always feel the need to be holier than thou. Get a grip on yourself and read my link before judging.
Then maybe, just maybe, you might read that my point was a generic one and not specific to Everton FC. It merely demonstrated unequivocally that SOME players are loyal, irrespective of money.
That was the crux of my point, which you ignored utterly and typically went on the defensive in an utterly unrelated fashion. To help, the link is in comment #27.
As for "I attack the argument, Mike, not the person." Utter crap! Let me qualify that before you get all hysterically defensive again: "If you believe that, then you're naive... and if you feel the need to get personal to defend your naviety... then so be it." That sounds very much to me like you are calling me personally, not my argument, niaive. Anybody fancy a plateful of hypocrisy for lunch?
Not once did I state our club was exclusive in expectation of loyalty. Not once did I state our club's 'family' had a value of £10k less per week. Not once did I demonstrate niaivety and my 'getting personal' was retaliatory as you always feel the need to be holier than thou. Get a grip on yourself and read my link before judging.
Then maybe, just maybe, you might read that my point was a generic one and not specific to Everton FC. It merely demonstrated unequivocally that SOME players are loyal, irrespective of money.
That was the crux of my point, which you ignored utterly and typically went on the defensive in an utterly unrelated fashion. To help, the link is in comment #27.
As for "I attack the argument, Mike, not the person." Utter crap! Let me qualify that before you get all hysterically defensive again: "If you believe that, then you're naive... and if you feel the need to get personal to defend your naviety... then so be it." That sounds very much to me like you are calling me personally, not my argument, niaive. Anybody fancy a plateful of hypocrisy for lunch?
Hystercially defensive?
Haha... good one.
Haha... good one.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 20/06/2010 at 23:01:04
Report abuse
Let's wait and see if Pienaar, Arteta, Jagielka, Heitinga etc are still with us when we play Blackburn in August... maybe we do have a family pull for these guys...