Skip to Main Content
Members:   Log In  |  Sign Up
The Mail Bag

Defence-minded

Comments (23)

First things first. I have often posted on this site in defence of Davey Moyes and his ability to build a squad with little or no cash and still be relatively sure of a top half finish (most seasons anyway).

However, the article on the OS caught my eye today regarding Seamus Coleman and quotes attributed to Moyes...

There are 2 quotes that caught my eye: ?There will be a little bit of a change over next season as we will look to move him a bit further back and maybe he can develop into a right back.?

Why does Davey feel the need to see if Coleman can develop into a right back, when he?s capable on the right side of midfield? Surely the forward berth is just as valuable as the right back role, so why not continue to develop him in this position instead of looking to move him further back.

This is similar to Jack Rodwell. Why does he need to become a central defender, when he has ability in the middle of the park? Arteta playing deep as another example. Why is the emphasis always on defence?

The second stand out quote from the article was: ?sometimes there are things about Seamus when you can see why he was a £60,000 player and then there are other times you will look at him and say that is great business?

FFS Davey, I think you need to go back to motivational school, as I am dam sure those kind of quotes should be kept behind close doors and won?t help the lads mindset. Don?t get me wrong, I?m not saying tell him he?s golden, but FFS he?s far removed from the 60K player that was brought over from Ireland.

Anyway, I?m off now to tell some of my subordinates that they?re shit.
Liam Reilly, Dublin     Posted 23/06/2011 at 13:38:00

back Return to the Mail Bag

Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Rory Brennan
1   Posted 23/06/2011 at 21:16:17

Report abuse

I completely agree about the motivation point, he shouldn't have made that comment.
David Hallwood
2   Posted 23/06/2011 at 21:33:53

Report abuse

If you remember he said something similar about Baines saying he was the second best LB after Cole. Maybe he's getting lessons from Fellaini's dad
Danny Broderick
3   Posted 23/06/2011 at 21:49:08

Report abuse

Coleman is a right back playing right mid. His long term future is as a right back. Just like Baines could do a job at left mid,though he is a left back. I would have thought this was obvious??
Andy Morden
4   Posted 23/06/2011 at 21:57:04

Report abuse

I suspect this is only what Moyes has told him in person - he's raw, he needs to develop. We all know Coleman was a stop gap down the right. He's made a good fist of it, but I'd prefer a specialist brought in to play there
Trevor Mackie
5   Posted 23/06/2011 at 21:42:53

Report abuse

This highlights an underlying problem with Moyes and his ilk, this sage insightful comment trying to prove how much he knows and how in control he is - does anything but.

There may or may not be truth in it but where's the benefit?

Pointless denigration of the lad - if you can't say anything helpful just shut up, bloody basic stuff but not surprising.
Mike Allison
6   Posted 23/06/2011 at 22:26:54

Report abuse

Playing Coleman at right back is an attacking move, not a defensive one. Also, if Rodwell were to move to centre back, that would help us retain possession and build proper attacks rather than hoofing it, so would also be an attacking move. Putting defenders furthers forward is defensive, putting good footballers or players with attacking talent in defence so that we can attack from anywhere is a positive attacking move.

Also, I've got no problems with an honest appraisal of a player, and I'll bet he hasn't either. Moyes has basically said 'you've done well, but still have plenty to learn'. Which is both spot on, and a perfectly good way to motivate a player.
Kiern Moran
7   Posted 23/06/2011 at 23:13:42

Report abuse

This isnt the school team we dont all have to play in midfield. Baines and Coleman bombing down alternate flanks is a prospect I look forward to.
Gary Hughes
8   Posted 24/06/2011 at 01:02:12

Report abuse

The cronic lack of funds needn't be a problem. This time last year we all thought we had our best squad in 20 years. Yes we were all let down but we shouldn't despair We're all down in the dumps because we haven't got a pot to piss in but the squad of players we all thought were great 12 months ago are still a good squad of players & are capable of great things providing DM can wake up to what he has at his disposal. This article focused on Coleman's best position, well his best position is as an attacking fullback opposite another outstanding attacking fullback in Baines. If
Gary Hughes
9   Posted 24/06/2011 at 01:12:45

Report abuse

DM could embrace the modern game & utilise a system that many top teams use, the 4-2-3-1 formation we have the personnel to make it work.

Howard
Coleman Jags Distin Baines
Rodwell Fellaini
Arteta Cahill Osman
Saha/Beckford

This could work. All our best players playing in positions that suit them with two of the best attacking fullbacks around providing overlapping width. We could do this without spending a penny & there is so much potential in this formation that we could match any of the big boys on any given day. It's horses for courses, the best players in the best positions with potentially the best outcome. I wish to God DM would just try something different. Who Knows?
Eric Myles
10   Posted 24/06/2011 at 02:04:11

Report abuse

Danny #3 blindingly obvious. He a RB playing right mid as we have a better defensive RB already and no right mid.
When Seamus moves to RB after his training going forward he'll be just like another Baines.
Same with Rodwell, there's no room for him as a CB as he's not as good there as the ones we currently have so midfield is the only place he can get a start.
James Flynn
11   Posted 24/06/2011 at 03:51:39

Report abuse

How did a routine, mundane comment from a manager about his young player get turned into this?

There was zero negative about Coleman in anything DM said.

My second year in, I'm coming to understand what you all refer to as the "Silly Season".
Gavin Ramejkis
12   Posted 23/06/2011 at 22:49:03

Report abuse

Mike, playing Seamus at right back would only be an attacking move (makig him a wing back) if he had a winger in front of him to cover him or an overlapping attack. Sadly Moyes doesn't do specialists or have money to buy a winger (or a player for that matter), longer term he might be a wishlist item for Moyes but remove Seamus from the wing and we have fuck all on that side going forward, let him play as a wing back and we have a weakened side just like Baines as he'd be left a hell of a job tracking back to cover the hole he leaves going forward with no overlapping wing cover. Apart from that an honest appraisal such as he has a lot to learn is a very fair point.
Stephen Kenny
13   Posted 24/06/2011 at 07:42:20

Report abuse

Mike Allison,

You hit the nail on the head.

Seamus was easily found out in the second half of last season and looked quite easy to defend against. It wont be so easy when he's bombing on from full back with a player in front of him to link up with.

All good attacking sides have fullbacks who can get forward and cause sides problems overlapping. IMO come the end of next season we will have two players either side of the pitch who are the best in the league at it!

The question is where does El Capitano play if Seamus moves back?
Richard Parker
14   Posted 24/06/2011 at 07:29:27

Report abuse

I agree with Mike (6) putting Coleman at RB is an attacking move. We'd have 2 FBs capable of getting forward and delivering in the final third. Which is the basis of a successful back 4. One full back gets down the wing whilst the other one holds to keep 3 back.

Look at how effective Baines has been and imagine something similar down the other side - although technically Coleman is a shadow of Baines, he can still cause a problem. It would certainly give us more of a threat and the opposition more to think about.

Also, Rodwell as a CB is a tough one. He's proved to be a good midfielder but I have no idea how good a centre half he is. But if we have a centre half as comfortable on the ball and as technically skilled as Rodders, then that would certainly be a very good thing. After all, the Dutch coaching method is to play their CBs in midfield during their early development to ensure that they can play a bit.
Steve Pugh
15   Posted 24/06/2011 at 09:29:57

Report abuse

After DM's so called derogatory comments about Baines did he:
a) go backwards muttering "if I'm not the best its not worth trying";
b) Throw his teddy out of the pram and demand a transfer; or;
c) Work even harder to make himself the best left back in the country.

Pointing out failings can be a great motivational tool, for the right person. Each individual has different motivational needs and a good motivator can spot this and uses it. For a lot of people praise is a bad motivator because it allows them to sit back and stop putting the effort in.
Paul Gladwell
16   Posted 24/06/2011 at 09:39:33

Report abuse

No way in the world will be thinking this as an attacking move, do you honestly think Neville will be dropped?
Andrew Ellams
17   Posted 24/06/2011 at 11:12:22

Report abuse

Perhaps this a long-term idea instead of short. Neville can only have one more full season in him and the quote does mention developing Seamus as a RB over the next year.
Karl Meighan
18   Posted 24/06/2011 at 11:16:30

Report abuse

No way do I fancy Coleman playing rightback. Coleman's strengths are obviously going forward attacking opponents.

For me, Coleman tailed off last season not only from fatigue but from playing to orders were he was playing deeper and looking to help out more in defense; he looked reckless at times when being attacked and imo defending is the biggest part of his game that needs work.

No doubt his defending will improve with experience and working hard were as his attacking game is sharp now and will only get sharper as he learns the position. Time will tell but last season I was more than happy Coleman had cover behind him.

Tony J Williams
19   Posted 24/06/2011 at 12:40:35

Report abuse

Coleman's effectiveness wained near the middle to end of last season, as he was getting marked out of the game. Look at all the space Hibbert gets when he plays right back....now imagine Coleman getting that space and think what he could do with it.

Very attacking idea really, unfortunately, as above, it still means we need a decent right winger.....and it's not Ossie
Tony J Williams
20   Posted 24/06/2011 at 12:42:33

Report abuse

or Cahill...or Rodwell etc etc
Anthony Hawkins
21   Posted 24/06/2011 at 12:59:33

Report abuse

Why oh why do you guys get upset with accurate appraisal of our players?

The team of Everton is made up of players at differing levels of their game. We're all eager to jump on Bily or Heitinga as "poor players" (beg to differ with Heitinga) but when it comes to our better or best players, we still think they are all world beaters!!

Baines is an amazing left back and will hopefully become the #1 RB for England, however he does not have the same ability as Cole.

Jagielka is a top quality CB and is potentially at the point of usurping Ferdinand but at the top of his form Ferdinand was better than Jagielka. Fact. Terry, at the top of his form is better than Jagielka. There is no getting away from it.

It's not a slight on either Jagielka or Baines, it's a measure of and credit to their ability that they are amongst the best in their position.

Hopefully they will become the best!!!

As for Coleman, everyone knows Coleman is a right back being played out of position at right midfield and that he will eventually be played at rightback.

They say Rodwell is a CB playing in midfield. May be that is true?

There is nothing wrong with stating facts and they are certainly not aimed to be dismissive or demoralising.

Mike Allison
22   Posted 24/06/2011 at 18:14:27

Report abuse

Gavin, I agree with your initial point. Having Seamus there is an attacking move assuming another creative attacking player plays ahead of him in midfield. I am making that assumption. Even if its Osman or Arteta, both realistic possibilities unless we recruit, we would still have Coleman there, but he would be attacking from deeper, and thus harder to pick up and defend against. This will still constitute more of a threat than when Neville or Hibbert play at right back.
Karl Meighan
23   Posted 24/06/2011 at 23:00:00

Report abuse

Moyes is often criticised for being negative and defensive... and rightly so at times; however, most would agree he is a good defensive coach so the fact he sees both Hibbert and Neville as better defenders tells me he doesn't trust Coleman's defensive qualities.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned but first fullbacks need to be able to defend; being good going forward is a bonus. With the introduction of wingbacks it is important the player can do both but defending is their first job imo.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb


Latest News

Subscribe to The Athletic, Get 40% off

Online Football Betting with Betway

Bet on Everton and get a deposit bonus with bet365 at TheFreeBetGuide.com



Recent Articles





Talking Points & General Forum

Pinned Links

OK

We use cookies to enhance your experience on ToffeeWeb and to enable certain features. By using the website you are consenting to our use of cookies in accordance with our cookie policy.