The Mail Bag
John Ruddy
Comments (32)
Think we could be looking back in a couple years regreting this one. From the point of view that I think Ruddy is a potential England regular in the coming years. I do not think he was ready to oust Howard this season and is too good to be warming the banch but i would have liked to have seen this as a loan move.
Good luck, John.
Craig Taylor, Posted 05/07/2010 at 14:19:21
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Erik Dols
2 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:04:03
2 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:04:03
Well, that's football. I would have liked him to stay but can imagine he does not want to wait years for his chance.
His only PL-game was a pure classic, thanks for that Ruddy!
His only PL-game was a pure classic, thanks for that Ruddy!
Tony McNulty
3 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:22:12
3 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:22:12
I suspect we should trust the manager on this one.
Can anyone name a player who has left with Moyes?s blessing, who has later gone on to flourish elsewhere?
Can anyone name a player who has left with Moyes?s blessing, who has later gone on to flourish elsewhere?
Alex Kociuba
4 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:28:28
4 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:28:28
Tony, looking through all the players which have departed since Moyes took over, I don't see ANYONE who has gone on to flourish elsewhere.
Discounting Rooney, the only exception is perhaps Lee Carsley, aged 34. But its really quite amazing looking through the list.
Discounting Rooney, the only exception is perhaps Lee Carsley, aged 34. But its really quite amazing looking through the list.
Alex Kociuba
5 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:35:59
5 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:35:59
http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/transfers.asp
Tony J Williams
6 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:46:55
6 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:46:55
Alex, didn't Radzinski reach the heights with Fulham and then made a massive move to......oh! hang on ....... move on, nothing to see here.
Tony McNulty
7 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:53:02
7 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:53:02
Rooney, who did not leave with the manager?s blessing, of course, has arguably improved as a player since going. But, frankly (and I am surprised that more people haven?t come out and said this), good as he is, Rooney has never actually lived up to his billing.
Jimmy Changa
8 Posted 05/07/2010 at 17:01:51
8 Posted 05/07/2010 at 17:01:51
IMO Rooney has gone backwards. Perhaps now he's more of a team player, but once again we have seen individual brilliance coached out of a youngster by SAF.
I would much rather watch a 17-year-old Rooney than the 20-odd-year-old we have now.
I would much rather watch a 17-year-old Rooney than the 20-odd-year-old we have now.
Tony J Williams
9 Posted 05/07/2010 at 17:05:59
9 Posted 05/07/2010 at 17:05:59
Spot on Jimmy, he is still a brilliant player but he doesn't excite me (pfnarr pfnarr) the way he used to.
Phil Bellis
10 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:59:49
10 Posted 05/07/2010 at 16:59:49
Tony
I agree; I wind up Manc supporters by remiinding them as fact that Rooney showed the potential to be as significant a talent as Maradonna or Cruyff and hasn't turned out that way; time is on his side, though but players younger than he is now have taken the world (and World Cup) by storm
Has he improved in skill, technique, decision making, leadership, temperament, stamina etc?
If so, is that through playing
with `better' players?
now and then against CL teams of varying degrees of skill?
Perhaps he'd have impoved anyway, naturally, as he got older (wiser?)
Sad thing is, we lost a great player and it seems to me Rooney feels he's lost nothing
I agree; I wind up Manc supporters by remiinding them as fact that Rooney showed the potential to be as significant a talent as Maradonna or Cruyff and hasn't turned out that way; time is on his side, though but players younger than he is now have taken the world (and World Cup) by storm
Has he improved in skill, technique, decision making, leadership, temperament, stamina etc?
If so, is that through playing
with `better' players?
now and then against CL teams of varying degrees of skill?
Perhaps he'd have impoved anyway, naturally, as he got older (wiser?)
Sad thing is, we lost a great player and it seems to me Rooney feels he's lost nothing
Jon Ferguson
11 Posted 05/07/2010 at 17:05:30
11 Posted 05/07/2010 at 17:05:30
Howard is going to be the first choice for the foreseeable future and we just signed a keeper who was his country's first choice in the World Cup. Who could blame the lad for wanting a permanent move, I wish him well.
Off topic, I can?t think of a single player except Rooney who left us and went on to emulate his form elsewhere. Gravesen being a prime example, although there is the mitigating circumstance in that Madrid thought they were signing Carsley.
Off topic, I can?t think of a single player except Rooney who left us and went on to emulate his form elsewhere. Gravesen being a prime example, although there is the mitigating circumstance in that Madrid thought they were signing Carsley.
Andy Crooks
12 Posted 05/07/2010 at 18:55:44
12 Posted 05/07/2010 at 18:55:44
Ruddy's career was blighted by the bewildering signing of Carlo Nash. It probably had the same effect on him as the ludicrous loan signing of Senderos had on Shane Duffy.
Kevin Gillen
13 Posted 05/07/2010 at 19:28:23
13 Posted 05/07/2010 at 19:28:23
Good luck to this lad, he did everything he could to fight for a first team place and had a great season at Motherwell. Moyes, I don't often like to admit to this but he has been proven a better judge than me, has probably assessed him as not quite good enough. I think he will make the Premiership at some stage - anyone fancy a bet?
Chris Ashton
14 Posted 05/07/2010 at 19:53:31
14 Posted 05/07/2010 at 19:53:31
This is just a thought over Ruddy... if he was such a great goalkeeper, why would Norwich buy him and not someone with more potential? I agree with the fact Moyes seems to only let the right players leave, especially as no-one has ever prospered. Realistically though, if Ruddy was a top class 'keeper, then he would have been snapped up by a better team. Is he really as good as Joe Hart? Similar age to him as well.
Kevin Gillen
15 Posted 05/07/2010 at 23:06:45
15 Posted 05/07/2010 at 23:06:45
I've watched him all season at Motherwell. He's like a lot of young keepers, inconsistent but very talented. Keepers take a long time to mature, let's face it, in pro football you have some of the biggest and hardest guys all taking a pop at you and you need to be very confident to do well in the most isolated position on the pitch. Look at Rob Green, if he had saved that goal against USA, a shot 999 out of a 1,000 times he would have saved, we could still be in the world cup. Temperament and character count for a lot as a goalie.
Chad Schofield
16 Posted 05/07/2010 at 23:17:03
16 Posted 05/07/2010 at 23:17:03
Wish him luck.
I always wished Rooney had stayed for just one more season... but then we would not have had the moeny to add personnel around him. It was interesting to see when things weren't working for Wayne at the World Cup he was still flailing his arms at his team mates, rather than taking responsibility for his misplaced passes.
In fairness most of the Libero Grande's have failed to live up to the hype.
I always wished Rooney had stayed for just one more season... but then we would not have had the moeny to add personnel around him. It was interesting to see when things weren't working for Wayne at the World Cup he was still flailing his arms at his team mates, rather than taking responsibility for his misplaced passes.
In fairness most of the Libero Grande's have failed to live up to the hype.
Ray Robinson
17 Posted 05/07/2010 at 23:29:18
17 Posted 05/07/2010 at 23:29:18
I too wish Ruddy the best of luck. I have seen him a few times in minor friendlies (e.g. vs Warrington) and, although he looked the part at times, I was unconvinced. Turner, despite his gaffes, looks the better keeper. Like a previous contributor, however, I fail to see the meaning in signing Carlo Nash. And, nothing against Carlo, but why is he on tour in Oz? Thought he was out of contract?
James Stewart
18 Posted 06/07/2010 at 00:28:08
18 Posted 06/07/2010 at 00:28:08
I feel a bit sorry for Ruddy, I thought he had promise. Certainly more than Turner, Mucha and Nash anyway.
Alex, there have been a few:
Alex, there have been a few:
- Davies has done better for Fulham than he ever did for us. Some cracking displays in the Europa.
- Ferrari went onto succeed in Italy. He was a talented player who I would like to have seen stay.
- Linderoth went on to better things for club and country after he left.
- Krøldrup went back to performing well in Italy. A really baffling transfer that one.
- Fernandes's stock is still high and I would expect he will achieve good things.
- McBride did great things at Fulham.
Martin Faulkner
19 Posted 06/07/2010 at 00:55:11
19 Posted 06/07/2010 at 00:55:11
Trevor Steven - Rangers
Gary Stephens - Rangers
Garly Lineker - Barca
Marco Materazzi - Milan
Olivier Dacourt - Roma
Martin Keown - Arsenal
Peter Beardsley - Toon (even that old)
to name but a few
Gary Stephens - Rangers
Garly Lineker - Barca
Marco Materazzi - Milan
Olivier Dacourt - Roma
Martin Keown - Arsenal
Peter Beardsley - Toon (even that old)
to name but a few
Ste Blundell
20 Posted 06/07/2010 at 01:34:11
20 Posted 06/07/2010 at 01:34:11
Martin Faulkner (19) - they were talking about players under Moyes.
I have to say there aren't many, Rooney obviously, Davie Wier, Brian McBride did well at Fulham and arguably Manuel Fernandes at Valencia. That's about it but they are all a bit tenuous I have to admit.
I have to say there aren't many, Rooney obviously, Davie Wier, Brian McBride did well at Fulham and arguably Manuel Fernandes at Valencia. That's about it but they are all a bit tenuous I have to admit.
Ste Blundell
21 Posted 06/07/2010 at 01:34:11
21 Posted 06/07/2010 at 01:34:11
Martin Faulkner (19) - they were talking about players under Moyes.
I have to say there aren't many, Rooney obviously, Davie Wier, Brian Mcbride did well at Fulham and arguably Manuel Fernandes at Valencia. That's about it but they are all a bit tenuous I have to admit.
I have to say there aren't many, Rooney obviously, Davie Wier, Brian Mcbride did well at Fulham and arguably Manuel Fernandes at Valencia. That's about it but they are all a bit tenuous I have to admit.
Alex Kociuba
22 Posted 06/07/2010 at 02:20:39
22 Posted 06/07/2010 at 02:20:39
James Stuart..
Simon Davies?!
Matteo Ferrari was only on loan to us, left aged 26 and only played another 56 games in his career for Genoa and Beskitas (winning nothing).
Linderoth went to play in the Danish Superliga (the highlight was reaching the group stages of the CL).
Krøldrup doesn't count... he played 1 game.
Brian McBride scored 1 in 4 for Fulham, not exactly dazzling for a striker. Also he was only on loan and played 8 games.
Simon Davies?!
Matteo Ferrari was only on loan to us, left aged 26 and only played another 56 games in his career for Genoa and Beskitas (winning nothing).
Linderoth went to play in the Danish Superliga (the highlight was reaching the group stages of the CL).
Krøldrup doesn't count... he played 1 game.
Brian McBride scored 1 in 4 for Fulham, not exactly dazzling for a striker. Also he was only on loan and played 8 games.
Jon Ferguson
23 Posted 06/07/2010 at 08:26:35
23 Posted 06/07/2010 at 08:26:35
I thought Ferrari was a class player, shame he was injured most of his time with us. Also, when he left, he was very positive about the club.
I don?t think that Manuel Fernandes can be classed as a success since he left us. He?s been almost constantly injured or out of the team and didn?t make the Portugal World Cup squad (along with Moutinio). He is still young though and the potential remains.
I don?t think that Manuel Fernandes can be classed as a success since he left us. He?s been almost constantly injured or out of the team and didn?t make the Portugal World Cup squad (along with Moutinio). He is still young though and the potential remains.
Gavin Ramejkis
24 Posted 06/07/2010 at 08:46:07
24 Posted 06/07/2010 at 08:46:07
Ste Blundell, I watched Davie Weir get torn a new arsehole by Karim Benzema at Ibrox when Lyon pumped Rangers out of the CL a few seasons ago, he literally turned him that many times old Davie just fell over in the end and Benzema went past the prone Weir to score where my Rangers mate and I were sat behind the Rangers goal.
Helikaon Bow
25 Posted 06/07/2010 at 08:54:15
25 Posted 06/07/2010 at 08:54:15
I hope we included a sell on clause which states we'll get a percentage of the transfer fee.
I'll be keeping a close eye on him for sure. Good club Norwich too.
I'll be keeping a close eye on him for sure. Good club Norwich too.
Terry Hayes
26 Posted 06/07/2010 at 11:04:56
26 Posted 06/07/2010 at 11:04:56
Ok Gavin, now I'm completely fuckin baffled... let me see if I've got this right: You are a quarter English, a quarter Canadian, a quarter Lithuanian and a quarter Irish, German-loving Everton supporter who spends his time going to watch a Scottish football team... I wouldn't like to be in your head when there's an argument going off, mate.
James Stewart
27 Posted 06/07/2010 at 13:39:39
27 Posted 06/07/2010 at 13:39:39
Alex, I'm not claiming Davies to be a world beater but he played well in the Europa final. How many current Everton players can match that achievement yet?
Linderoth went on to play in the CL with Galatasaray you're right. He also captained Sweden a few times. Hardly vanishing without trace.
Ferrari was a classy player and its a shame we didn't sign him on.
Linderoth went on to play in the CL with Galatasaray you're right. He also captained Sweden a few times. Hardly vanishing without trace.
Ferrari was a classy player and its a shame we didn't sign him on.
Lee Smith
28 Posted 06/07/2010 at 14:00:12
28 Posted 06/07/2010 at 14:00:12
I had high hopes for the boy, would much rather have seen him given a chance as number two over Mucha or Nash. Will be interesting to see if he plays any part in the friendly at Carrow Road on 31 July. Good luck to you John.
Lee Smith
29 Posted 06/07/2010 at 14:06:31
29 Posted 06/07/2010 at 14:06:31
Forgot to mention the fact that he is also an East Anglian lad like myself, so the opportunity of him returning 'home' to a decent team who will possibly be pushing for a return to the Premier League in a season or three must have been a big pull for him. Also, according to the ever accurate Wikipedia, he is staying with the Blues in Oz for pre-season, bit of an odd one that don't you think?
Tony McNulty
30 Posted 06/07/2010 at 16:31:40
30 Posted 06/07/2010 at 16:31:40
I have read nothing in this thread which has altered the sentiments implied in #3. I wouldn?t have back any of the players quoted by James (#18.) None of them are any better than when Moyes allowed them to go. Alex (#22) deals with most of the points.
Phil (#10), I think we have been in agreement before on one or two items. Rooney is a possible exception amongst the departures BUT, and as is the case with many people who leave their employers in a fit of pique, when he left he took his problems with him.
He has many problems, but I?ll name two, both of which I believe would have been better sorted out with a longer stay at Goodison.
Problem one is a lack of self-control and discipline. Moyes was not going to stand for temper tantrums and the Fat Boy often found himself on the bench. Ferguson, interestingly, in being supportive, has actually been over-indulgent.
A second problem is that he is more interested in being worshipped by the crowd than in performing for the team. So, for instance, he tries to score memorable goals rather than being effective. And when the memorable goals don?t come, he resorts to silly long range shots (e.g. the recent World Cup.) I think Dave Watson & Co would have had a word. The Everton backroom boys have always struck me as a bullshit-detecting crowd intolerant of anyone?s claims to superiority.
Phil (#10), I think we have been in agreement before on one or two items. Rooney is a possible exception amongst the departures BUT, and as is the case with many people who leave their employers in a fit of pique, when he left he took his problems with him.
He has many problems, but I?ll name two, both of which I believe would have been better sorted out with a longer stay at Goodison.
Problem one is a lack of self-control and discipline. Moyes was not going to stand for temper tantrums and the Fat Boy often found himself on the bench. Ferguson, interestingly, in being supportive, has actually been over-indulgent.
A second problem is that he is more interested in being worshipped by the crowd than in performing for the team. So, for instance, he tries to score memorable goals rather than being effective. And when the memorable goals don?t come, he resorts to silly long range shots (e.g. the recent World Cup.) I think Dave Watson & Co would have had a word. The Everton backroom boys have always struck me as a bullshit-detecting crowd intolerant of anyone?s claims to superiority.
James Stewart
31 Posted 06/07/2010 at 16:59:10
31 Posted 06/07/2010 at 16:59:10
Tony, perhaps you misunderstand me; I wasn't implying we should re-sign any of them. I was merely suggesting the myth that all players who leave Everton under Moyes fail miserably is simply not true.
As for Rooney, he was just as good ? if not better ? for us as he is now for Man Utd and England.
As for Rooney, he was just as good ? if not better ? for us as he is now for Man Utd and England.
Tony McNulty
32 Posted 06/07/2010 at 17:07:41
32 Posted 06/07/2010 at 17:07:41
The words I used were "flourish elsewhere" not "fail miserably." That last phrase is yours, and I certainly wouldn't use it about most of them.
But, the point is, that, since they have gone, none of them have led to too many Evertonian sleepless nights about lost opportunities.
But, the point is, that, since they have gone, none of them have led to too many Evertonian sleepless nights about lost opportunities.
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1 Posted 05/07/2010 at 15:24:07