The Mail Bag
What Bill didn't say...
Comments (122)
Having just read the thoughts of our chairman Bill Kenwright on the subject of his love for the city and his early childhood, I was astonished to come across this little gem
"Seven or eight times a year, I will get a delegation which will be interested in investing in Everton."
Is it just me, or is anyone else totally surprised by this? The subject of Bill's desire to bring investment in (or totally ignore investors for his own aims ? depending on your point of view) has provoked much TW comment over the years, but I cannot believe that any of us thought that there were delegates approaching Everton with investment in mind every other month!
Why doesn't Bill tell us what happens at these little chats? Doesn't need to give us figures, just tell us why they collapse. Is it money? Is it people looking for too much control for too little cash? Is it perhaps that they want to take the club into an area that Bill is not comfortable with? Why not simply give us a clue?
I was always amazed that investors seemed to be ignoring our club in favour of other clubs with far less potential (as were many TW readers judging by the mailbag), but now I find that by Bill's own admission some 15 or so separate investment groups have been in conversation with us over the last couple of years. What gives?
Tony McDonald, Posted 30/07/2010 at 18:43:47
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Jimmy Hacking
2 Posted 31/07/2010 at 00:35:50
2 Posted 31/07/2010 at 00:35:50
I agree this is a ludicrous thing to say; if true, it makes him look staggeringly incompetent. If false...
Has there ever been any genuine criticism in the media of BK's calamitous "efforts" to sell the club? I dont recall seeing any. but the man has many friends...
(paranoid rant over)
Has there ever been any genuine criticism in the media of BK's calamitous "efforts" to sell the club? I dont recall seeing any. but the man has many friends...
(paranoid rant over)
John Andrews
3 Posted 31/07/2010 at 00:55:37
3 Posted 31/07/2010 at 00:55:37
Same old Bill same old bullshit.
Eugene Ruane
4 Posted 31/07/2010 at 00:24:04
4 Posted 31/07/2010 at 00:24:04
When I was at school, there was a kid in the year below who was known to all as 'Spoofer'.
He was known as Spoofer because he was a liar.
Not an exaggerator, not a lily-gilder, an out-and-out fantasist.
An inventor of things that simply didn't happen.
And not just things - insane things!
Things that could just not have happened.
He once told me (and others) that he had held a 'black mass' at the Jesuits house (this was SFX about 1974).
He then told us there had been a human sacrifice.
This was TOO much.
We all shouted him down and told him if a body was missing someone would know it was missing (I think someone added "yer fuckin' soft twat!").
What he said next was (in a truly insane way) quite clever.
He said "Well obviously we didn't kill nobody, but yesterday I had a wank into a tic-tac box and we lashed it across the alter - sponk's human life accordin' to the church like and we killed it"
He was obviously ill, but not stupid.
I mean he had imagination.
Years later, in London I met another Spoofer.
An Aussie who I initially believed HAD lived on an Island by himself for six months because he was working for an oil company who needed someone kill any crocs....etc blah.
I soon learned.
He once told me he'd 'given one' to Lady Bubbles Rothermere AND wiped his nob on her velvet curtains.
He had the skin of a Rhino too.
When, in the pub, we would quietly tell him that everyone who knew him, knew he was a big mental liar, he would just laugh as though we were gently ribbing him.
Well I believe Bill is a Spoofer in exactly the same mould.
A complete fantasist.
Someone who basically invents what he would love to be true.
My belief is that if hundreds of visiting delegations is what Bill would like, hundreds of visiting delegations is what Bill will have....in his head.
But ok, let's say I'm being cynical and there ARE delegations all over the show.
Tony asks how come nothing ever happens
My guess is that they (like us in school) could simply tell that this person is OBVIOUSLY not to be believed.
A bit of a nutter who thinks he can fool the entire word with his fantasies.
A person who walks into a room and thinks "with my brain, I'm in control of everything".
The reality of course is different.
The reality is sniggering and "did you hear what Spoofer said about King's Dock? He's off his head"
He was known as Spoofer because he was a liar.
Not an exaggerator, not a lily-gilder, an out-and-out fantasist.
An inventor of things that simply didn't happen.
And not just things - insane things!
Things that could just not have happened.
He once told me (and others) that he had held a 'black mass' at the Jesuits house (this was SFX about 1974).
He then told us there had been a human sacrifice.
This was TOO much.
We all shouted him down and told him if a body was missing someone would know it was missing (I think someone added "yer fuckin' soft twat!").
What he said next was (in a truly insane way) quite clever.
He said "Well obviously we didn't kill nobody, but yesterday I had a wank into a tic-tac box and we lashed it across the alter - sponk's human life accordin' to the church like and we killed it"
He was obviously ill, but not stupid.
I mean he had imagination.
Years later, in London I met another Spoofer.
An Aussie who I initially believed HAD lived on an Island by himself for six months because he was working for an oil company who needed someone kill any crocs....etc blah.
I soon learned.
He once told me he'd 'given one' to Lady Bubbles Rothermere AND wiped his nob on her velvet curtains.
He had the skin of a Rhino too.
When, in the pub, we would quietly tell him that everyone who knew him, knew he was a big mental liar, he would just laugh as though we were gently ribbing him.
Well I believe Bill is a Spoofer in exactly the same mould.
A complete fantasist.
Someone who basically invents what he would love to be true.
My belief is that if hundreds of visiting delegations is what Bill would like, hundreds of visiting delegations is what Bill will have....in his head.
But ok, let's say I'm being cynical and there ARE delegations all over the show.
Tony asks how come nothing ever happens
My guess is that they (like us in school) could simply tell that this person is OBVIOUSLY not to be believed.
A bit of a nutter who thinks he can fool the entire word with his fantasies.
A person who walks into a room and thinks "with my brain, I'm in control of everything".
The reality of course is different.
The reality is sniggering and "did you hear what Spoofer said about King's Dock? He's off his head"
Gavin Ramejkis
5 Posted 31/07/2010 at 01:14:25
5 Posted 31/07/2010 at 01:14:25
BK has churned this bullshit out for years, nothing new just through a different medium. If he told me the sky was blue I'd check for myself. Billy Liar is the most apt thing for BK with his theatrical background.
Jay Dawson
6 Posted 31/07/2010 at 01:26:24
6 Posted 31/07/2010 at 01:26:24
Hehe, good shout Eugene, I too know a couple of 'Fantasists' and I agree with your post. At the end of the day you've got to ask, why does Bill make this shite up?? I do think he's a Evertonian, and I respect what he's done for the club from relegation to Europe, but he has had quite a few nightmares so far (Kings Dock, never sell rooney, Fernandes etc) and I think he owes the fans a bit of honesty, especially now when no one knows whats happening to our best players (Pienaar/Arteta)... sort it out Bill tell us whats goin on!
Brendan O'Doherty
7 Posted 31/07/2010 at 01:56:32
7 Posted 31/07/2010 at 01:56:32
Talking of fantasy, apparently it was "Bill who intervened and stopped the letter going out" (Gosling's)
What letter? It seems letters go out every year to players. What they contain I do not know. (Watch this space!)
Now "seven or eight times a year, I will get a delegation which will be interested in investing in Everton."
So that's 10 years x 7.5 (on average) making 75 possible investment opportunities, all of which have come to zilch.
WOW!
Still looking 24/7?
The use of numbers and statistics by our chairman is now bordering on the delusional.
Someone has some explaining to do.
What letter? It seems letters go out every year to players. What they contain I do not know. (Watch this space!)
Now "seven or eight times a year, I will get a delegation which will be interested in investing in Everton."
So that's 10 years x 7.5 (on average) making 75 possible investment opportunities, all of which have come to zilch.
WOW!
Still looking 24/7?
The use of numbers and statistics by our chairman is now bordering on the delusional.
Someone has some explaining to do.
Max Main
8 Posted 31/07/2010 at 02:06:20
8 Posted 31/07/2010 at 02:06:20
Great, an entire thread dedicated to bashing Bill Kenwright. I'm sure this will be filled with balanced, well thought out, and most of all interesting points.
Isn't anyone bored of this yet? He's a decent chairman. He's an Evertonian and he leaves the football to the manager. He's fine. Chill the fuck out.
Isn't anyone bored of this yet? He's a decent chairman. He's an Evertonian and he leaves the football to the manager. He's fine. Chill the fuck out.
Liu Weixian
9 Posted 31/07/2010 at 04:07:40
9 Posted 31/07/2010 at 04:07:40
Max, Kenwright may be an Evertonian, but he is also CLUELESS.
Gavin Ramejkis
10 Posted 31/07/2010 at 07:41:36
10 Posted 31/07/2010 at 07:41:36
Max being an Evertonian doesn't make you a saint and worst still in BK's case he has deliberately used that tag to dig himself out of the well deserved self inflicted shit creek with the gullible who lap it up as an excuse.
How about "great an entire article in the Liverpool Echo churning out the same old gushing shite?"
How about "great an entire article in the Liverpool Echo churning out the same old gushing shite?"
Duncan McDine
11 Posted 31/07/2010 at 07:36:57
11 Posted 31/07/2010 at 07:36:57
I've always been on the side of the fence where I think he should be given some slack. For all his bullshit, he's done one major thing right as chairman : stick with David Moyes. That alone has been enough to make me think he's got the club's interests at heart.
After reading this article, I'm starting to wonder what the hell is going on. As others have mentioned... if he's had meetings with all these potential investors, why hasn't a deal been done with one of them?
After reading this article, I'm starting to wonder what the hell is going on. As others have mentioned... if he's had meetings with all these potential investors, why hasn't a deal been done with one of them?
Andy Crooks
12 Posted 31/07/2010 at 07:56:32
12 Posted 31/07/2010 at 07:56:32
Duncan, I believe Bill when he say's he is approached by potential buyers. However, I think it is actually investors he is after. Investors who will allow him to remain chairman and continue to live the dream. I think he loves being chairman of the club more than he loves the club.
Ray Roche
13 Posted 31/07/2010 at 08:09:44
13 Posted 31/07/2010 at 08:09:44
Is this the same Bill Kenwright who, in an interview on BBC Radio last year, claimed that Elvis Presley had visited London and that Tommy Steele had shown him all the tourist sights? So, the biggest UK pop star and the biggest star in world pop music (at that time) walk around London and no fucker sees them? Yeah.Right, Bill.
Aiden Doyle
14 Posted 31/07/2010 at 08:57:48
14 Posted 31/07/2010 at 08:57:48
When I invest in something I expect to make money out of it.
Your average football fan expects investors to lose money on their investment in the club.
Maybe the people who approach Kenwright share my philosophy. Like the people who invested in Liverpool. Or the people who invested in Manchester United. Or Portsmouth. Or West Ham....
Maybe that?s he?s reluctant to entrust the club to people like them.
Seems more plausible than most of the crap spouted above.
Your average football fan expects investors to lose money on their investment in the club.
Maybe the people who approach Kenwright share my philosophy. Like the people who invested in Liverpool. Or the people who invested in Manchester United. Or Portsmouth. Or West Ham....
Maybe that?s he?s reluctant to entrust the club to people like them.
Seems more plausible than most of the crap spouted above.
Neil Vaughan
15 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:30:22
15 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:30:22
If you think Bullshit Billy is delusional then you should get a load of his 'old lady' Jenny....She was on morning TV last week saying that we're gonna win the league this year...
Fuck me....loyalty and support of your spouse is one thing but that is just fuckin ridiculous..
We finished 8th last year so how adding two 2nd Div foreign players/kids and a 3rd Div English player to the squad is gonna enable us to WIN the league, god only knows....
Fuck me....loyalty and support of your spouse is one thing but that is just fuckin ridiculous..
We finished 8th last year so how adding two 2nd Div foreign players/kids and a 3rd Div English player to the squad is gonna enable us to WIN the league, god only knows....
Gavin Ramejkis
16 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:35:24
16 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:35:24
Aiden, if you make formal approaches via Keith Harris (not of Orville fame) you'll apparently find the sticking point to be the exorbitant price and nothing to do with some starry eyed best wishes of the club at heart. If the right high amount of cash came along I've little doubt BK would be off like a shot back to his beloved London with a bulging bank account, the trouble is in the past it appears to have been "investment" which implies no ownership change but since the debacles of KD and DK the tune changed to buyer.
Eugene Ruane
17 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:10:38
17 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:10:38
Gavin you make an interesting point when you say to Max "being an Evertonian doesn't make you a saint".
You're right of course, but I believe for many, being an Evertonian DOES make a saint.
I don't for a moment expect anyone to admit to this, but they don't have to.
Their opinions do it for them (or often their LACK of opinions).
If Bill Kenwright was NOT an Evertonian and NOT Chairman, but was a Liverpool supporting MP, who had been caught on numerous occasions bullshitting, 99% of those backing him now, would (I have NO doubt) be on here giving it..
"He's fucking got to go, he's been caught, he's a liar, he's banged to rights, it's not just once, he's been caught out loads of times and it's not coz he's a kopite, he's lied to us" etc
If I was ever on trial in Liverpool, when it came to my plea, I wouldn't say 'guilty' or 'not guilty', I would risk a contempt charge, look at the jury and say "I LOVE EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB".
My guess is on the jury there would be at least four blues and that would be enough to see me walk.
(and now that I'm free and can't be charged again, I can tell you all...I did it!)
You're right of course, but I believe for many, being an Evertonian DOES make a saint.
I don't for a moment expect anyone to admit to this, but they don't have to.
Their opinions do it for them (or often their LACK of opinions).
If Bill Kenwright was NOT an Evertonian and NOT Chairman, but was a Liverpool supporting MP, who had been caught on numerous occasions bullshitting, 99% of those backing him now, would (I have NO doubt) be on here giving it..
"He's fucking got to go, he's been caught, he's a liar, he's banged to rights, it's not just once, he's been caught out loads of times and it's not coz he's a kopite, he's lied to us" etc
If I was ever on trial in Liverpool, when it came to my plea, I wouldn't say 'guilty' or 'not guilty', I would risk a contempt charge, look at the jury and say "I LOVE EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB".
My guess is on the jury there would be at least four blues and that would be enough to see me walk.
(and now that I'm free and can't be charged again, I can tell you all...I did it!)
Michael Brien
18 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:39:31
18 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:39:31
Yes, being an Evertonian does not make you a saint. Yes, Kenwright has made several mistakes ? but this is hardly a balanced article is it ? Yet again another thinly veiled attack on Kenwright ? with the same old suspects and the same old comments. Haven't you got anything else to write?
And before anyone accuses me of taking in all the comments of Mr K and of blind loyalty. It's not a case of blind loyalty and accepting every "official" statement. It's more a case of not demonising the guy.
I wonder where some of you where when a certain Peter Johnson was around. You talk about cock ups ? he very nearly got us banned from the FA Cup. He was Everton chairman but also retained a susbstantial interest in Tranmere Rovers ? contrary to FA regulations. Know your history?
Brian Waring
19 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:43:41
19 Posted 31/07/2010 at 10:43:41
Spot on Eugene. The man gets away with fucking murder, and that is because we have fans who are taken in by the usual gushing crap, he's a true blue, he loves the club etc.
Imagine if he was chairman of the redshite, we would all be on here laughing our fucking heads off.
Imagine if he was chairman of the redshite, we would all be on here laughing our fucking heads off.
Michael Brien
20 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:11:17
20 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:11:17
Brian ? so you think the guys running Liverpool FC are doing a great job do you? Think that they run their club better than Kenwright runs Everton?
How many millions have they spent in the last few seasons to NOT win the title? I would say that we are the better run, better managed club. It's only thanks to Gerrard and Torres being free of any major lay offs that they have finished as high as they have.
How many millions have they spent in the last few seasons to NOT win the title? I would say that we are the better run, better managed club. It's only thanks to Gerrard and Torres being free of any major lay offs that they have finished as high as they have.
Richard Dodd
21 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:37:41
21 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:37:41
Everton are where we are today because of one man ? BILL KENWRIGHT! Appointing and supporting David Moyes (who the majority on here would have had out on many occasions over the last eight years!), he has kept the ship in good order and repelled all borders of the Portsmouth, Liverpool variety who he did not feel had Everton in their hearts.
I am proud to be his biggest fan ? and long may it be so!
John Audsley
22 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:37:38
22 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:37:38
Michael
If you took half of the money that the Shite have invested on terrible players and gave it to Moyes, we would be top 4
For me its the lack of investment that will mark Moyes's stay as manager and you really have to ask how not one of these "potential investment opps" has come off. To me it's because Bill doesn't want to be replaced, it's his terms or no terms.
In a couple of years we may all be reading "Moyes 10 years at Everton changed them from relegation dodgers to Top 5 - 8 but when he really needed the extra push financially he was fucked" or words to that effect.
If you took half of the money that the Shite have invested on terrible players and gave it to Moyes, we would be top 4
For me its the lack of investment that will mark Moyes's stay as manager and you really have to ask how not one of these "potential investment opps" has come off. To me it's because Bill doesn't want to be replaced, it's his terms or no terms.
In a couple of years we may all be reading "Moyes 10 years at Everton changed them from relegation dodgers to Top 5 - 8 but when he really needed the extra push financially he was fucked" or words to that effect.
Brian Waring
23 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:42:11
23 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:42:11
No Michael, they are a pair of clowns who run the redshite. But in my opinion, so is Kenwright.
As I say, if he was at the redshite, spouting all the bullshit that he does with us, you, me and probalby everyone else would be on our backs rolling around laughing, slagging him off to the hilt. But hey, it's ok, he's a true blue.
As I say, if he was at the redshite, spouting all the bullshit that he does with us, you, me and probalby everyone else would be on our backs rolling around laughing, slagging him off to the hilt. But hey, it's ok, he's a true blue.
John Audsley
24 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:53:04
24 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:53:04
Now thats the Doddy we all know and love.
It's taken months but the boy is back!!!!!!!!!
It's taken months but the boy is back!!!!!!!!!
David Booth
25 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:51:50
25 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:51:50
Here we go again.
We're on the threshold of the most promising season we've had for decades - and the chairman's the devil incarnate...
Get a grip.
He's not perfect.
Neither am I.
Neither are you.
But Everton are in with a real shout next season. What the hell does it matter?
Give the guy some credit.
We're on the threshold of the most promising season we've had for decades - and the chairman's the devil incarnate...
Get a grip.
He's not perfect.
Neither am I.
Neither are you.
But Everton are in with a real shout next season. What the hell does it matter?
Give the guy some credit.
Stephen Kenny
26 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:56:16
26 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:56:16
I'm almost certain that no delegations wishing to invest in Everton have approached him, because he is not the owner of Everton Football Club.
They may say, "Ask your mate Phil how much he wants," but I suspect that's about it.
They may say, "Ask your mate Phil how much he wants," but I suspect that's about it.
Brian Waring
27 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:00:08
27 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:00:08
John, I think Doddy was such a sycophant that he had to go on medication, looks like it never worked.
Eugene Ruane
28 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:40:04
28 Posted 31/07/2010 at 11:40:04
Michael Brien.
By way of a defense, you begin..
"Yes Kenwright has made several mistakes..."
Mistakes?
Sorry but anything you write after that suggests either you are being deliberately obtuse or you're genuinely unable to follow the simplest of arguments.
The inference of your 'mistakes' line can only be 'he's only human, so you're being unreasonable'
Here is something you need to know.
We know the difference between bullshit and mistakes.
Mistakes are something we ALL make and most reasonable people are prepared to accept them and forgive them.
They are not deliberate or deceitful - hence the expression 'an honest mistake'.
However there is no such thing as an honest lie.
A lie is a deception in the form of an untruthful statement, with the intention to deceive others.
Can it be spelled out any simpler?
By way of a defense, you begin..
"Yes Kenwright has made several mistakes..."
Mistakes?
Sorry but anything you write after that suggests either you are being deliberately obtuse or you're genuinely unable to follow the simplest of arguments.
The inference of your 'mistakes' line can only be 'he's only human, so you're being unreasonable'
Here is something you need to know.
We know the difference between bullshit and mistakes.
Mistakes are something we ALL make and most reasonable people are prepared to accept them and forgive them.
They are not deliberate or deceitful - hence the expression 'an honest mistake'.
However there is no such thing as an honest lie.
A lie is a deception in the form of an untruthful statement, with the intention to deceive others.
Can it be spelled out any simpler?
Paul Mackie
29 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:01:29
29 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:01:29
I am neither a fan or a hater of BK. My opinion is that although he sometimes fucks up, his hearts in the right place.
Has it occurred to some of you in this thread though that perhaps he's trying not to let a couple of fuckwits like Hicks and Gillete get control of our club? Just because he says there's 7 or 8 offers a year there's no guarantee that those offers are any good.
Has it occurred to some of you in this thread though that perhaps he's trying not to let a couple of fuckwits like Hicks and Gillete get control of our club? Just because he says there's 7 or 8 offers a year there's no guarantee that those offers are any good.
In the last few years the clubs been getting by. Yeah we have debt but thanks to Moyesie the team has improved year on year. Personally, I'd rather have someone at the helm who wants to make sure that any buyer for the club isn't going to see us get into the same level of debt as Man U or the RS.
If BK was just in this to sell the club for a profit I'm pretty sure that two seasons ago would have been the time. He could quite probably have just taken the money and done one.
Ernie Baywood
30 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:13:25
30 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:13:25
Such uninformed rubbish on this thread. Any excuse boys, eh?
You don't think he gets approached by investors all the time? It's common knowledge that we need money so I would have thought it absolutely believable that he gets offers along the lines "have we got a deal for you..." regularly.
The sticking point is what people expect in return - investors DO usually expect something in return you know. Some of these investments may well be in place but not significant enough to make headlines (or a huge difference)
Basically, stop dreaming that someone will come in with the express intention of blowing their hard earned on our club. It's an absolute minority who will do that. Only two examples spring to mind (and one of them still holds equity in return for his investment).
In the meantime just take a look at our squad and tell me that Bill isn't doing, at a minimum, a serviceable job.
I'm no supporter of his, but this thread is pathetic.
You don't think he gets approached by investors all the time? It's common knowledge that we need money so I would have thought it absolutely believable that he gets offers along the lines "have we got a deal for you..." regularly.
The sticking point is what people expect in return - investors DO usually expect something in return you know. Some of these investments may well be in place but not significant enough to make headlines (or a huge difference)
Basically, stop dreaming that someone will come in with the express intention of blowing their hard earned on our club. It's an absolute minority who will do that. Only two examples spring to mind (and one of them still holds equity in return for his investment).
In the meantime just take a look at our squad and tell me that Bill isn't doing, at a minimum, a serviceable job.
I'm no supporter of his, but this thread is pathetic.
Roy Mcleod
31 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:09:57
31 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:09:57
@Ray Roche.(12)
Interestingly the story was confirmed by Tommy Steele in a subsequent interview.
Are you suggesting that grandmothers fave Tommy ''alf a sixpence' Steele was telling porkies?
Surely not!!!
Interestingly the story was confirmed by Tommy Steele in a subsequent interview.
Are you suggesting that grandmothers fave Tommy ''alf a sixpence' Steele was telling porkies?
Surely not!!!
Ste Traverse
32 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:34:03
32 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:34:03
It makes me laugh hearing the BK-supporters saying he 'brought in Moyes'. Thats one good decision in 10 and a half years!
If anyone else made just one good decision in that time in their own job they'd have collected their p45 long ago.
Kenwright gets away with murder because he's seen to a 'true blue'. The mans a fantasist, I saw threw him years ago.
If anyone else made just one good decision in that time in their own job they'd have collected their p45 long ago.
Kenwright gets away with murder because he's seen to a 'true blue'. The mans a fantasist, I saw threw him years ago.
Ernie Baywood
33 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:43:39
33 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:43:39
Is that how it works?
Choosing one manager and finding some rich bugger to throw money at us are the only two things he has had to do in a decade?
Again, I'm no BK supporter, but lets not have sweeping statements of fact from people who clearly have no understanding of the facts. It's childlike.
Choosing one manager and finding some rich bugger to throw money at us are the only two things he has had to do in a decade?
Again, I'm no BK supporter, but lets not have sweeping statements of fact from people who clearly have no understanding of the facts. It's childlike.
Eugene Ruane
34 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:45:21
34 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:45:21
I believe loads of those posting to making excuses for Bill actually ARE Bill.
I honestly do.
I'm just waiting for the day he slips up and posts 'I' instead of 'he'.
I honestly do.
I'm just waiting for the day he slips up and posts 'I' instead of 'he'.
Phil Bellis
35 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:56:00
35 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:56:00
EJ,
Do you ever wonder what happened the the other alter egos, "Rupert Tarlington", "Gerrard Madden" etc?
Do you ever wonder what happened the the other alter egos, "Rupert Tarlington", "Gerrard Madden" etc?
Michael Brien
36 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:54:24
36 Posted 31/07/2010 at 12:54:24
Eugene - same old same old - have you anything new to say ? No ? Then don't say anything until you have. I am not making excuses for Kenwright - I was just like to hear/read a balanced point of view. The point I was making was that I would readily acknowledge that he has his faults but I do not happen to believe he is the devil incarnate as you would appear to suggest.
Sorry that should not read appear to suggest, because you clearly think that he is totally evil.
Perhaps he could sell the club to some foreign investors? Perhaps you would like that. They say that if something appears to be too good to be true then it usually is. Would you like to swop places with Man City? Have all their millions ? Seems brilliant to be in their position doesn't it. Well lets see what history will show us shall we. Do you really think their Owners/Investors want nothing in return for their investment ? I wonder how long they will remain at City ? My guess is that they will remain as long as it proves beneficial to them and then they will pull out. Leaving what behind ? A healthy run club ?
Yes Kenwright does mess up some of the time. But I don't believe he would drive the club into the ground or leave Everton in the situation that the Americans at Anfield and Old Trafford have created.
Sorry that should not read appear to suggest, because you clearly think that he is totally evil.
Perhaps he could sell the club to some foreign investors? Perhaps you would like that. They say that if something appears to be too good to be true then it usually is. Would you like to swop places with Man City? Have all their millions ? Seems brilliant to be in their position doesn't it. Well lets see what history will show us shall we. Do you really think their Owners/Investors want nothing in return for their investment ? I wonder how long they will remain at City ? My guess is that they will remain as long as it proves beneficial to them and then they will pull out. Leaving what behind ? A healthy run club ?
Yes Kenwright does mess up some of the time. But I don't believe he would drive the club into the ground or leave Everton in the situation that the Americans at Anfield and Old Trafford have created.
Ste Traverse
37 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:09:07
37 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:09:07
Michael,were does Eugene suggest Kenwright is the 'devil incarnate'? Maybe he just doesn't rate him and gives him some well deserved criticism?
Just like many of us.
I personally can't wait to see the back of the man and his bullshit storys that sadly so many lap up.
Just like many of us.
I personally can't wait to see the back of the man and his bullshit storys that sadly so many lap up.
Andy Crooks
38 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:13:19
38 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:13:19
Michael, to be critical of Bill Kenwright does not necessarily mean that one would wish we were in the position of Man City. Perhaps a different individual, even with Bill's lack of funds, might have overseen a more professionally run club.
Doug Nestor
39 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:21:12
39 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:21:12
Kenwright............you are a Twat..........Simple....You are a total embarrasment to us real Blues............
Michael Brien
40 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:26:56
40 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:26:56
Andy - the error with Gosling, Kings Dock etc - one could list mistakes made by Kenwright I am sure. However, as I have tried to point out the man has also made some correct decisions. If he was as usless as somechave suggested I don't think we would have survived in the Premier League.
Ste - perhaps the words "devil incarnate" may not have been used but they have been implied. There is a difference in not rating someone and some of the vitirolic criticism that has been posted.
Ste - perhaps the words "devil incarnate" may not have been used but they have been implied. There is a difference in not rating someone and some of the vitirolic criticism that has been posted.
Ernie Baywood
41 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:43:38
41 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:43:38
What's the point Doug? I'll bet you had Moyes down as a twat when he was negotiating his new contract too.
For all the things he may be... he's not a twat of a bloke.
For all the things he may be... he's not a twat of a bloke.
Eugene Ruane
42 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:12:01
42 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:12:01
Sorry is this MichaelBrienweb?
Michael, I shall say WHAT I like, WHEN I like and never (nb: NEVER) adhere to the wishes of an apologist for a bullshitter.
Anything fucking NEW to say? Not like you then with your TOTALLY new "I'm not making excuses for Kenwright.."
Fact: That is EXACTLY what you are doing.. AGAIN!
NEW?
Jesus, you are someone who appears each and every time someone has the nerve to point out that a PROVEN liar could be telling more lies.
And why? Apparently because you want a 'balanced point of view'... What a reasonable person you are... except everything doesn't HAVE a 'balance'.
Hitler was a cunt - that's it, the whole argument, no 'balance' needed.
(and PLEASE let's not have a wounded "So you're comparing Bill with..." - I use an obvious extreme to make the point - I could have just as easily used Tommy Smith)
Fact is, you ignore BK's lies, call them 'mistakes' and hope nobody will notice the difference... over and over and over Fine - your choice.
But then have the plums to criticise those who do? To have a go at people who DO know the difference between lies and mistakes?
You ARE Bill Kenwright and I claim my five guineas!
Michael, I shall say WHAT I like, WHEN I like and never (nb: NEVER) adhere to the wishes of an apologist for a bullshitter.
Anything fucking NEW to say? Not like you then with your TOTALLY new "I'm not making excuses for Kenwright.."
Fact: That is EXACTLY what you are doing.. AGAIN!
NEW?
Jesus, you are someone who appears each and every time someone has the nerve to point out that a PROVEN liar could be telling more lies.
And why? Apparently because you want a 'balanced point of view'... What a reasonable person you are... except everything doesn't HAVE a 'balance'.
Hitler was a cunt - that's it, the whole argument, no 'balance' needed.
(and PLEASE let's not have a wounded "So you're comparing Bill with..." - I use an obvious extreme to make the point - I could have just as easily used Tommy Smith)
Fact is, you ignore BK's lies, call them 'mistakes' and hope nobody will notice the difference... over and over and over Fine - your choice.
But then have the plums to criticise those who do? To have a go at people who DO know the difference between lies and mistakes?
You ARE Bill Kenwright and I claim my five guineas!
David Hallwood
43 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:44:04
43 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:44:04
Oh incidentally, the RS is up for sale and there have been no takers for this 'Global Brand'. The days of takeovers are all but gone. You may have been on a space station for the last two years but on planet earth there's been something of a financial crisis.
A premier league club now needs serious investment , and as Kenwright pointed out, the day of the self made millionaire fan has passed. So when he talks about investment, it depends on the figures quoted, if it was from someone with a fortune of say £50mill, he probably told them to keep the money in the bank unless they were prepared to do a bit of minicabbing to make ends meet
A premier league club now needs serious investment , and as Kenwright pointed out, the day of the self made millionaire fan has passed. So when he talks about investment, it depends on the figures quoted, if it was from someone with a fortune of say £50mill, he probably told them to keep the money in the bank unless they were prepared to do a bit of minicabbing to make ends meet
John Daley
44 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:42:56
44 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:42:56
Michael,
Kenwright is not the 'devil incarnate', he's just a useless, bungling, dreamer hopelessly out of his depth. If you think Everton is a well run club then i'm afraid you've got your head in the sand.
We all know of Kenwrights fuck ups but what are his successes as Everton chairman?
1) He hired David Moyes
and.... erm...err...
2) He got fucking Sylvester Stallone to visit Goodison once.
Kenwright is not the 'devil incarnate', he's just a useless, bungling, dreamer hopelessly out of his depth. If you think Everton is a well run club then i'm afraid you've got your head in the sand.
We all know of Kenwrights fuck ups but what are his successes as Everton chairman?
1) He hired David Moyes
and.... erm...err...
2) He got fucking Sylvester Stallone to visit Goodison once.
John Audsley
45 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:53:47
45 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:53:47
Doug Nestor make ac ouple of very interesting and well put points
I dont think Bill is a twat
however because he talks far, far too much and sadly "24/7, Fortress Sports Fund" etc most of it is shite i do find him embarassing
Ok, thread over...............
I dont think Bill is a twat
however because he talks far, far too much and sadly "24/7, Fortress Sports Fund" etc most of it is shite i do find him embarassing
Ok, thread over...............
Alan Kirwin
46 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:52:55
46 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:52:55
Max & Richard - well done but hardly worth bothering. Surely you know the form by now. At various intervals someone will scour the ad-hoc utterances of Kenwright and well be subjected to a pack of spluttering crows pecking at an irritating crumb which, in reality, doesn't exist.
I mean, some of the crap churned out again & again & againzzz is just marvellous. For example, the notion that Kenwright is somehow duty bound (as head of a private company) to report every potential approach to the club, however real or non-existent, is risible.
I mean, here we are with our finest, strongest, most skilfull and most valuable squad for 25 years, looking forward (FORWARD!) to a new season with more relish than for as long as I can remember, on the back of our best league decade for over 20 years, in a reasonable financial position & with little of the bile or debt that characterises LFC or MUFC, with a very good & dedicated manager at the helm and yet....
Let's slag the chairman off. I mean, things are just SO bad. This is, on this site,without doubt, the single most boring pile of irrelevant and often misleading drivel since dinosaurs ruled the earth.
I'm in a good mood about the season ahead under this manager & this chairman. Things are OK. Reading shit like this makes me lose the will to live.
Get a grip, or get out more.
I mean, some of the crap churned out again & again & againzzz is just marvellous. For example, the notion that Kenwright is somehow duty bound (as head of a private company) to report every potential approach to the club, however real or non-existent, is risible.
I mean, here we are with our finest, strongest, most skilfull and most valuable squad for 25 years, looking forward (FORWARD!) to a new season with more relish than for as long as I can remember, on the back of our best league decade for over 20 years, in a reasonable financial position & with little of the bile or debt that characterises LFC or MUFC, with a very good & dedicated manager at the helm and yet....
Let's slag the chairman off. I mean, things are just SO bad. This is, on this site,without doubt, the single most boring pile of irrelevant and often misleading drivel since dinosaurs ruled the earth.
I'm in a good mood about the season ahead under this manager & this chairman. Things are OK. Reading shit like this makes me lose the will to live.
Get a grip, or get out more.
David Booth
47 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:59:58
47 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:59:58
John (Daley): I'd be very interested to see your list of chairmen and their respective 'successes' please?
Alan Kirwin
48 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:03:16
48 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:03:16
Shit! there it is, I missed it. Anybody who doesn't add to the saliva, or anyone who simply offers, not even a counter view, but a balanced view is......da...da...da... AN APOLOGIST.
Oh zippedyfuckingdooda. The A word finally appears. When I said this was drivel I insulted drivel.
Serves me right for clicking on to a thread with Kenwright in the title. Should know better. Time to leave the salivating sheep of discord.
Oh zippedyfuckingdooda. The A word finally appears. When I said this was drivel I insulted drivel.
Serves me right for clicking on to a thread with Kenwright in the title. Should know better. Time to leave the salivating sheep of discord.
Richard Dodd
49 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:59:38
49 Posted 31/07/2010 at 13:59:38
``Bill Kenwright` is generally recognised as the best Chairman in the Prem Bar None.``Said to me personally by Bolton`s Phil Garside at a FA event only five weks ago!
Just why can`t Evertonians see and appreciate it?
Just why can`t Evertonians see and appreciate it?
Ciarán McGlone
50 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:14:21
50 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:14:21
Don't you just love it when some wealthy twat plays the 'working class hero' routine!
Absolutely cringeable garbage about how our impoverished chariman attended the theatre and had holes in his shoes...I don't think we need to go any further than Eugene's insightful post.
The man's a bullshitter.
Absolutely cringeable garbage about how our impoverished chariman attended the theatre and had holes in his shoes...I don't think we need to go any further than Eugene's insightful post.
The man's a bullshitter.
Eugene Ruane
51 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:16:53
51 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:16:53
Yes thank you Alan 'Ken Tynan' Kirwan.
I'm sure we're all impressed by your world-weariness and refusal to get involved with such beneath your intellect squabbles.
Or..at least we would be if you hadn't posted twice on this subject, then told us all to...da..da..da..da 'GET OUT MORE'.
Saliva indeed!
I'm sure we're all impressed by your world-weariness and refusal to get involved with such beneath your intellect squabbles.
Or..at least we would be if you hadn't posted twice on this subject, then told us all to...da..da..da..da 'GET OUT MORE'.
Saliva indeed!
Andy Codling
52 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:53:18
52 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:53:18
any links for todays game
John Daley
53 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:34:49
53 Posted 31/07/2010 at 14:34:49
What list's that then David? I made no mention of any other other chairmen and i'm not going to bother my arse to do so now.
How can you "give the guy some credit"? The same guy who has now overseen two failed groundmoves and mortgaged all the clubs assets instead of coming up with anything that even remotely resembles a business plan or commercial strategy.
How about you answer my question? Apart from hiring Moyes what else of note has Kenwright achieved in the 10 years since he's been chairman?
How can you "give the guy some credit"? The same guy who has now overseen two failed groundmoves and mortgaged all the clubs assets instead of coming up with anything that even remotely resembles a business plan or commercial strategy.
How about you answer my question? Apart from hiring Moyes what else of note has Kenwright achieved in the 10 years since he's been chairman?
David Booth
54 Posted 31/07/2010 at 15:25:53
54 Posted 31/07/2010 at 15:25:53
John: if you criticise anything without providing an alternative by which to measure that criticism, it is surely meaningless?
We've got a manager everyone admires, a team on the verge of fulfilling our expectations and full of players coveted by all our rivals and have retained our pride & principles in the process.
We're not multi-millions in debt, owned by some anonymous overseas consortium, the plaything of an Arab sheik- or worse still, relegated and bankrupt.
Yes, a new ground would be good and some serious investment - without becoming just another victim of the Sky merry-go-round - would be equally so... but I do think we should count our blessings.
I can't wait for the Blackburn game. Things are happening at our club and I can't believe how some of my fellow Evertonians just want to whinge and whine all the time.
Things could be better and having aspirations and expectations is vital in any walk of life.
But things could be a LOT worse too.
Anyway, that's my case for the defence. Now over to you: which chairmen are you measuring Bill Kenwright against? I'd like to know who's doing a better job (outside of Abramovic and his crew at Chelsea)?
We've got a manager everyone admires, a team on the verge of fulfilling our expectations and full of players coveted by all our rivals and have retained our pride & principles in the process.
We're not multi-millions in debt, owned by some anonymous overseas consortium, the plaything of an Arab sheik- or worse still, relegated and bankrupt.
Yes, a new ground would be good and some serious investment - without becoming just another victim of the Sky merry-go-round - would be equally so... but I do think we should count our blessings.
I can't wait for the Blackburn game. Things are happening at our club and I can't believe how some of my fellow Evertonians just want to whinge and whine all the time.
Things could be better and having aspirations and expectations is vital in any walk of life.
But things could be a LOT worse too.
Anyway, that's my case for the defence. Now over to you: which chairmen are you measuring Bill Kenwright against? I'd like to know who's doing a better job (outside of Abramovic and his crew at Chelsea)?
Ged Simpson
55 Posted 31/07/2010 at 15:59:22
55 Posted 31/07/2010 at 15:59:22
I am simple....I see a good season coming up.
I see a good squad.
I see a good manager that many would kill for.
I also see my Man City supporting colleague not as much of a fan of the club as before.
I also see the Reds fans at work less than happy.
Am I happy with the Blues under Kenright ?
Very.
Grass always greener ?
I am proud of what we are and how we are doing it.
I see a good squad.
I see a good manager that many would kill for.
I also see my Man City supporting colleague not as much of a fan of the club as before.
I also see the Reds fans at work less than happy.
Am I happy with the Blues under Kenright ?
Very.
Grass always greener ?
I am proud of what we are and how we are doing it.
Max Main
56 Posted 31/07/2010 at 15:54:30
56 Posted 31/07/2010 at 15:54:30
It pleases me that there are actually some reasonable Evertonians still out there (Booth and Kirwin etc). Perhaps it's because the voices of discontent are always the loudest, but I was beginning to think I was the only one.
I am pleased with where we are right now. I am excited about the new season. We may not be the richest but we have one of the best managers in the league, who has a great relationship with his chairman. We have the best squad we've had since I've been supporting the blues. And we're currently 2-nil up in a pre-season friendly against Norwich. Doesnt' get much better than that.
I am pleased with where we are right now. I am excited about the new season. We may not be the richest but we have one of the best managers in the league, who has a great relationship with his chairman. We have the best squad we've had since I've been supporting the blues. And we're currently 2-nil up in a pre-season friendly against Norwich. Doesnt' get much better than that.
Jay Harris
57 Posted 31/07/2010 at 15:27:16
57 Posted 31/07/2010 at 15:27:16
Here's a balanced view for you:
For all the progress Moyes has made on the pitch Kenwright and his buddies have been the millstone round his neck.
Putting the absolutely pathetic lies to one side He has fucked up 2 ground moves costing the club millions, presided over operating losses almost every year since he took over and has gone through 5 Chief executives.
Now I wont call other Evertonians for supporting him but I am entitled to my OWN opinion without being called a "salivating sheep of discord" and that opinion is that the man is a lying, incompetent embarassment of a chairman.
For all the progress Moyes has made on the pitch Kenwright and his buddies have been the millstone round his neck.
Putting the absolutely pathetic lies to one side He has fucked up 2 ground moves costing the club millions, presided over operating losses almost every year since he took over and has gone through 5 Chief executives.
Now I wont call other Evertonians for supporting him but I am entitled to my OWN opinion without being called a "salivating sheep of discord" and that opinion is that the man is a lying, incompetent embarassment of a chairman.
David O'Keefe
58 Posted 31/07/2010 at 16:21:16
58 Posted 31/07/2010 at 16:21:16
"It could be worse" says David Booth, the default position of all BK apologists. The funny thing is that the apologists consider themselves the positive ones, but after playing the Moyes card thay have nothing expect "at least we're not (insert name of club" and it could be worse. They have both been deployed in this thread in defence of BK, but these are not positive defences; they are negative.
That's right the so-called positives that defend BK to the hilt can not mount a positive defence of their man only negative. Yet they consider themselves the positive ones, but for them things can't get better only worse hence the "At least we're not (insert name of club) defence".
I have had enough of this BS from the apologists hypocritically decrying his critics as negative when they are negative for different reasons. In truth its his critics that want a better club, while his apologists quake in their boots about the terrifying prospect of any change at all.
That's right the so-called positives that defend BK to the hilt can not mount a positive defence of their man only negative. Yet they consider themselves the positive ones, but for them things can't get better only worse hence the "At least we're not (insert name of club) defence".
I have had enough of this BS from the apologists hypocritically decrying his critics as negative when they are negative for different reasons. In truth its his critics that want a better club, while his apologists quake in their boots about the terrifying prospect of any change at all.
David Booth
59 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:03:12
59 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:03:12
That's because it's true David.
Care to suggest any alternatives we ought to be modelling ourselves on?
Care to suggest any alternatives we ought to be modelling ourselves on?
David O'Keefe
60 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:06:14
60 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:06:14
Booth you have proven my point.
David Booth
61 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:16:33
61 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:16:33
By not answering, it is you who have proven mine David: thank you!
David O'Keefe
62 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:22:51
62 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:22:51
Make a positive case for Bill Kenwright. I will accept David Moyes, but try to give it a go.
List his achievements, not Moyes go on give it a go.
List his achievements, not Moyes go on give it a go.
John Daley
63 Posted 31/07/2010 at 16:37:00
63 Posted 31/07/2010 at 16:37:00
David, the fact that our manager is universally admired, the team " .is on the verge of fulfilling our expectations and full of players coveted by all our rivals.." is not a valid defence of Kenwrights stewardship of the club. All the above are attributable to David Moyes, and were achieved despite Blue Bill, not because of him.
The fact that there have been some dodgy overseas investors in Premier League clubs over the last few years has probably given Kenwright an easier ride with some fans than he deserves. Just because another club is in an even worse position does not mean that you now have to overlook gross incompetence, mismanagement, and the blatant misleading of supporters and shareholders.
As for a chairman doing a better job than Bill? How about Daniel Levy at Spurs? Despite having a antiquated stadium with a similiar capacity to ourseves, Spurs were the only Premier League club (outside Man Utd and Arsenal) to post profits of more than £25m in their last accounts. Everton, of course recorded a loss of £6.9m. The only time in the last five years that Everton have made a profit was 2005 and this was due solely to the sale of Rooney.
Tottenhams turnover in 2009 was £113m compared to Evertons £79m. Tottenhams wage to turnover ratio is also an impressive 50% (compared to say Man City 94.4%, Aston Villa 76.8%, and Everton 62%).
Tottenhams commercial operations earn £29m. Evertons commercial operations earn £9.2m.
Levy is now apparantly looking to get Spurs a new state of the art ground without crippling the club. Let's see if he fucks it up like Kenwright. Twice.
The fact that there have been some dodgy overseas investors in Premier League clubs over the last few years has probably given Kenwright an easier ride with some fans than he deserves. Just because another club is in an even worse position does not mean that you now have to overlook gross incompetence, mismanagement, and the blatant misleading of supporters and shareholders.
As for a chairman doing a better job than Bill? How about Daniel Levy at Spurs? Despite having a antiquated stadium with a similiar capacity to ourseves, Spurs were the only Premier League club (outside Man Utd and Arsenal) to post profits of more than £25m in their last accounts. Everton, of course recorded a loss of £6.9m. The only time in the last five years that Everton have made a profit was 2005 and this was due solely to the sale of Rooney.
Tottenhams turnover in 2009 was £113m compared to Evertons £79m. Tottenhams wage to turnover ratio is also an impressive 50% (compared to say Man City 94.4%, Aston Villa 76.8%, and Everton 62%).
Tottenhams commercial operations earn £29m. Evertons commercial operations earn £9.2m.
Levy is now apparantly looking to get Spurs a new state of the art ground without crippling the club. Let's see if he fucks it up like Kenwright. Twice.
David Booth
64 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:29:28
64 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:29:28
Er, see above.
List who's done better?
List who's done better?
David O'Keefe
65 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:32:13
65 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:32:13
Booth that is not a valid defence of BK.
Can we judge the man on his own merits or are you already conceding the point?
Can we judge the man on his own merits or are you already conceding the point?
David Booth
66 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:36:23
66 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:36:23
John, fair comment, but let's not forget two very important 'weighting' factors that need to be taken into consideration:
Tottenham are a London club - and we all know the advantages that bestows (in terms of kudos, attracting sponsors, ticket prices etc). We are one of two clubs within half a mile of one another in Liverpool.
The last I heard, their new ground was no further forward than ours, ie, some lovely drawings and promises - followed soon afterwards by much comment saying it was fanciful, impractical and would never be affordable. In short, when it's built, you may have a point.
Would you have made the same point when we finished fourth and they were nowhere a few seasons ago I wonder? Please don't make them your darling's, as well as the media's.
And in all fairness, yes Moyes must take the credit for building us a very promising-looking team, but you can't just say that's in spite of Kenwright. He doesn't clean the boots, but he is still the chairman and therefore deserves his share of the credit.
David: your insistence on calling me 'Booth' and the lack of a reasonable argument from you proves nothing other than that your dad is doubtless bigger than my dad. You may carry on talking to yourself.
Tottenham are a London club - and we all know the advantages that bestows (in terms of kudos, attracting sponsors, ticket prices etc). We are one of two clubs within half a mile of one another in Liverpool.
The last I heard, their new ground was no further forward than ours, ie, some lovely drawings and promises - followed soon afterwards by much comment saying it was fanciful, impractical and would never be affordable. In short, when it's built, you may have a point.
Would you have made the same point when we finished fourth and they were nowhere a few seasons ago I wonder? Please don't make them your darling's, as well as the media's.
And in all fairness, yes Moyes must take the credit for building us a very promising-looking team, but you can't just say that's in spite of Kenwright. He doesn't clean the boots, but he is still the chairman and therefore deserves his share of the credit.
David: your insistence on calling me 'Booth' and the lack of a reasonable argument from you proves nothing other than that your dad is doubtless bigger than my dad. You may carry on talking to yourself.
David O'Keefe
67 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:07:15
67 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:07:15
Booth, I have been nothing but reasonable with you and in response all you have done is sought to shift the paradigm.
As for taking umbrage at being refered to by your surname, are you serious?
I think it is quite sad when your only response is leave me alone, but I'm a reasonable man so I will assent to your request.
As for taking umbrage at being refered to by your surname, are you serious?
I think it is quite sad when your only response is leave me alone, but I'm a reasonable man so I will assent to your request.
Eugene Ruane
68 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:08:45
68 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:08:45
Max Main's definition of reasonable.
'anyone who agrees with me is reasonable, anyone who doesn't, isn't'.
Genius!.
He also states that 'the voices of discontent are always the loudest'.
Really?
How the fuck does THAT work on a website?
That must be some computer he's got!
(or does he mean, as I suspect, 'I see any contrary opinion as being shouted at me'?)
All nonsense intended as diversion.
"I haven't got an argument, I'm ignoring anything I don't like, I know Bill has lied over and over, shit - AH I KNOW - you're being unreasonable!"
Touché!
I've seen hundreds of posts on here from people who love telling the world they're reasonable and balanced and positive and that those with opposing views are 'drooling lunatics' or salivating sheep' etc blah
All smoke-screen to cover piss-weak 'arguments'
I read pages on TW on Kirkby from reasonables about "Do you really think Bill would..." and "How do you know...." and "So you know more than the Chairman..."
Yes I fucking did.
I knew Kenwright was a twat then and I know he's a twat now.
Anyway, I very rarely believe these even-tempered reasonables are as reasonable as they make out and indeed, am often wary of them.
Nobody more positive than your Scientologist and they scare they shite out of me.
Or Kenneth Bianchi - now he was a VERY reasonable, engaging feller by all accounts....until the red mist came down and the Chinese music started playing in his head.
If people have something to say, they should say it and not give two fucks about looking 'even' or 'balanced'.
Fact is, you don't need 'balanced' if you're right.
'anyone who agrees with me is reasonable, anyone who doesn't, isn't'.
Genius!.
He also states that 'the voices of discontent are always the loudest'.
Really?
How the fuck does THAT work on a website?
That must be some computer he's got!
(or does he mean, as I suspect, 'I see any contrary opinion as being shouted at me'?)
All nonsense intended as diversion.
"I haven't got an argument, I'm ignoring anything I don't like, I know Bill has lied over and over, shit - AH I KNOW - you're being unreasonable!"
Touché!
I've seen hundreds of posts on here from people who love telling the world they're reasonable and balanced and positive and that those with opposing views are 'drooling lunatics' or salivating sheep' etc blah
All smoke-screen to cover piss-weak 'arguments'
I read pages on TW on Kirkby from reasonables about "Do you really think Bill would..." and "How do you know...." and "So you know more than the Chairman..."
Yes I fucking did.
I knew Kenwright was a twat then and I know he's a twat now.
Anyway, I very rarely believe these even-tempered reasonables are as reasonable as they make out and indeed, am often wary of them.
Nobody more positive than your Scientologist and they scare they shite out of me.
Or Kenneth Bianchi - now he was a VERY reasonable, engaging feller by all accounts....until the red mist came down and the Chinese music started playing in his head.
If people have something to say, they should say it and not give two fucks about looking 'even' or 'balanced'.
Fact is, you don't need 'balanced' if you're right.
Gavin Ramejkis
69 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:55:30
69 Posted 31/07/2010 at 17:55:30
Doddy, I wouldn't call Phil Garside of Bolton the epitome flagship of FA Management as just what has he achieved or been responsible for? Alan Kirwan, Michael, et al the arguments regarding seeking a billionaire replacement owner were also flogged to death on this site over the last few months. I, personally, would rather see a Chairman and board with business acumen and a credible business strategy to take this club forward, to seek new and expand existing revenue streams, to promote this club to increase it's profile here and abroad.
The current chairman has been at Everton for over a decade and was on the board during Peter Johnson's reign yet an earlier argument as to Johnson nearly getting Everton banned from the FA Cup, well BK was on the board then. Eugene has explained the difference between mistakes and lies quiet sufficiently. Several of the lies sufficient to drive a wedge between the supporters themselves in a divide and conquer type movement.
I personally don't trust BK as having the club's best interests at heart, you might but I and several others don't and that's the point of this thread.
The current chairman has been at Everton for over a decade and was on the board during Peter Johnson's reign yet an earlier argument as to Johnson nearly getting Everton banned from the FA Cup, well BK was on the board then. Eugene has explained the difference between mistakes and lies quiet sufficiently. Several of the lies sufficient to drive a wedge between the supporters themselves in a divide and conquer type movement.
I personally don't trust BK as having the club's best interests at heart, you might but I and several others don't and that's the point of this thread.
Max Main
70 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:07:39
70 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:07:39
Saying that Moyes has created this team "despite Blue Bill" is absolutely ridiculous. Kenwright leaves the management of the football to Moyes. That is one of the main reasons he is a good chairman, and that's exactly why Moyes speaks so highly of him. He also chose not to sack him after one disastrous season, which with hindsight would have seen us lose one of the best managers in the league. Are we allowed to give him credit for that? Or should I apologise? John Daley - do you think Levy would have stuck by Moyes? No, you don't. Maybe Levy's not perfect. Maybe if Levy was in charge of Everton you'd pick up on the things he gets wrong and vilify him?
O'Keefe - re-read my posts and see if you think I'm being negative. You, sir, are the one complaining about a chairman who, outside of your little group of cry babies, is universally liked by the football world, is loved by the Everton manager, and who is presiding over a positive period in our club's history. You, sir, are the negative one.
Oh, and I'm using last names because everyone on here seems to be called David.
O'Keefe - re-read my posts and see if you think I'm being negative. You, sir, are the one complaining about a chairman who, outside of your little group of cry babies, is universally liked by the football world, is loved by the Everton manager, and who is presiding over a positive period in our club's history. You, sir, are the negative one.
Oh, and I'm using last names because everyone on here seems to be called David.
David O'Keefe
71 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:26:01
71 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:26:01
Max, that was a content free rant and is unworthy of a considered response. I suppose that little group of cry babies jibe is ironic?
Come on Max you can do better than that....can't you?
Come on Max you can do better than that....can't you?
Max Main
72 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:25:00
72 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:25:00
Eugene - I honestly don't know if you're trying to be funny, or if you're just an idiot. I do have my suspicions.
I can explain the statement if you like. If a million people watch a TV show and enjoy it, but one person is offended by it, who do you think writes in to the TV company? The satisfied million? You there yet? I'm not sure how much simpler I can make it.
And obviously I think the reasonable people agree with me. Otherwise I would think that I wasn't reasonable. But regardless of that, I've already explained why you lot are unreasonable, so I won't go into that again.
And I won't go into your last few lines (btw paragraphs are easy enough) but you accuse me of writing nonsense intended as diversion? Really?
I can explain the statement if you like. If a million people watch a TV show and enjoy it, but one person is offended by it, who do you think writes in to the TV company? The satisfied million? You there yet? I'm not sure how much simpler I can make it.
And obviously I think the reasonable people agree with me. Otherwise I would think that I wasn't reasonable. But regardless of that, I've already explained why you lot are unreasonable, so I won't go into that again.
And I won't go into your last few lines (btw paragraphs are easy enough) but you accuse me of writing nonsense intended as diversion? Really?
David O'Keefe
73 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:33:23
73 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:33:23
Frank, nice use of the Mary Whitehouse card in order not to avoid facing some uncmfortable facts about the clubs heirarchy. What were you saying about credibility again?
Ciarán McGlone
74 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:37:48
74 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:37:48
I've heard it all now....Bill's effectiveness as a chairman is all down to his amazing ability to do nothing..
Allowing Moyes to do his job..is now apparently the zenith Bill's tenure....There's balance for you..
Allowing Moyes to do his job..is now apparently the zenith Bill's tenure....There's balance for you..
Max Main
75 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:38:43
75 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:38:43
O'Keefe - My post (#70) was not a content free rant, and the cry babies jibe was in no way ironic. To get back to my original point, I don't think Kenwright is perfect, but no chairman is. He's doing a decent job and some cry babies out there will complain no matter what he does. And they do complain all the time. And they would complain no matter who was in charge. And it's f*cking boring.
David O'Keefe
76 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:44:46
76 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:44:46
Max it was content-free, you didn't list any of BK's achievements, for a very good reason, because there are none. All you did was conflate David Moyes relative success with BK.
If you think two failed ground moves, the fortress sport fund debacle and the clubs continued poor financial performance constitutue doing a "decent Job" then your a fool. Those are the facts and you can't argue with them.
If you think two failed ground moves, the fortress sport fund debacle and the clubs continued poor financial performance constitutue doing a "decent Job" then your a fool. Those are the facts and you can't argue with them.
John Daley
77 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:25:25
77 Posted 31/07/2010 at 18:25:25
Max, i don't think Levy is perfect. To be honest i don't give a fuck about the guy. I was asked to provide an example of another chairman who i consider to have performed better than Kenwright. That's all.
I don't vilify Kenwright. I don't hate him. I don't think he's got bad intentions. I just think he's a naive clown. He's been on the board for 20 years and the only way he's ever managed to provide funds for his manager is via borrowing from the banks and his buddies or selling assets such as Rooney and Lescott.
Things on the pitch may be okay at the moment but off it the management and malaise at boardroom level is truly shocking. Everton are a club with an ever growing debt and are operating at a loss each and every year. The club does not make any money at all. They have nothing at bank. That's a fact. All the clubs assets have already been sold off. They are on their arse. You think this is the by-product of a good chairman? You think we can just rely on Moyes picking up bargains every year to keep us in the top half of the table? What happens if he leaves?
Classic Kenwright quote: "I do not understand why football clubs have such big debts, it is a mystery". He's had 20 yrs to fucking figure it out and he still doesn't get it.
I don't vilify Kenwright. I don't hate him. I don't think he's got bad intentions. I just think he's a naive clown. He's been on the board for 20 years and the only way he's ever managed to provide funds for his manager is via borrowing from the banks and his buddies or selling assets such as Rooney and Lescott.
Things on the pitch may be okay at the moment but off it the management and malaise at boardroom level is truly shocking. Everton are a club with an ever growing debt and are operating at a loss each and every year. The club does not make any money at all. They have nothing at bank. That's a fact. All the clubs assets have already been sold off. They are on their arse. You think this is the by-product of a good chairman? You think we can just rely on Moyes picking up bargains every year to keep us in the top half of the table? What happens if he leaves?
Classic Kenwright quote: "I do not understand why football clubs have such big debts, it is a mystery". He's had 20 yrs to fucking figure it out and he still doesn't get it.
David O'Keefe
78 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:01:03
78 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:01:03
Actually, Frank your wrong they can't do what they want they have to act in the clubs best interests at all times. A little thing called the companies act states this.
Andy Crooks
79 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:17:53
79 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:17:53
Max ,I've no doubt Bill Kenwright is universally liked in the football world. He's probably a pretty amiable guy,and a great host with a fund of heart warming stories. I believe, however that there has been a serious lack of professionalism in the running of the club during his reign. This is not personal vilification but a considered opinion.
James Flynn
80 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:05:21
80 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:05:21
What a thread!! You guys are the best! And provided 3 choices for my upcoming American Football Fantasy League team and every one a gem.
"A Pack of Spluttering Crows"
"Absolutely Cringeable Garbage" (Early frontrunner)
"Salivating Sheep of Discord"
Fantastic!
As far as Kenright? There seems universal agreement that Goodison's amenities are being left as they are. That's a ton of goodwill and cash being left on the table by a Club that should be pursuing every revenue stream. Especially ones right there in front of you.
And that's not Moyes' department. So whose? Kenright should take a hit for that one.
"A Pack of Spluttering Crows"
"Absolutely Cringeable Garbage" (Early frontrunner)
"Salivating Sheep of Discord"
Fantastic!
As far as Kenright? There seems universal agreement that Goodison's amenities are being left as they are. That's a ton of goodwill and cash being left on the table by a Club that should be pursuing every revenue stream. Especially ones right there in front of you.
And that's not Moyes' department. So whose? Kenright should take a hit for that one.
Ste Traverse
81 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:22:10
81 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:22:10
Kenwright has had 10 and a half years at the helm. As chairman its been his responsibility to sort out
A) The stadium situation.
B) A reasonable transfer budjet for his manager.
He's failed on both counts.
Apart from bringing in Moyes (a manager who still hasn't won anything),BK has no achievements to speak of. Just lots of cock-ups and bullshitting on his CV.
Robert Patterson
82 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:16:06
82 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:16:06
I've got some red nose mates, I'm happier than them. ENOUGH SAID.
Eugene Ruane
83 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:40:41
83 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:40:41
Andy Crooks, you beat me to it.
As part of his 'you're all wrong' package, Max Main tells us BK is "universally liked by the football world"
Well that's that then - no more worries about whether he's competent or honest as long as Dave Whelan thinks "Oh aye furrr-play to Bill, Everton always put on a grand spread after't match"
Frank McGregor, you should know that whenever anyone on TW tells me off for my profanity, I go out and hurt a small animal.
It's up to you.
As part of his 'you're all wrong' package, Max Main tells us BK is "universally liked by the football world"
Well that's that then - no more worries about whether he's competent or honest as long as Dave Whelan thinks "Oh aye furrr-play to Bill, Everton always put on a grand spread after't match"
Frank McGregor, you should know that whenever anyone on TW tells me off for my profanity, I go out and hurt a small animal.
It's up to you.
Alan Kirwin
84 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:48:27
84 Posted 31/07/2010 at 19:48:27
David O'Keefe (or are we just using surly surnames now?) - who are you an apologist for? and before you answer that, make sure that a) you know what it means, and b) you read what is actually said by those you accuse of being an apologist. It's like listening to a kid who's just found a new word but can't quite get the context right.
Seems to me there are very few, if any, APOLOGISTS for Kenwright on here.
But there clearly are a few contented Evertonians who see more important things in life to get upset about than approaching a new season with more optimism than for a long long time, good squad, good manager and wonder what all the fuss is about. Some look at things in perspective and see that. whilst it would be great to have more money, better stadium etc, we could also be owned by complete cunts who give not a toss for the club, saddle it with huge debts, double prices over 3 years (or in City's case 1 year), change managers every season.
But then, whinging bastards always find something to whinge about and have no concept of the facts that things could be much worse.
Because if you did you wouldn't fucking whinge incessantly just because our chairman gave an interview in which he mentioned all manner of trivia.
I repeat, get out more, engage, smile, think positive, don't dance on pinheads, don't worry about a Bill Kenwright interview because, guess what,it has NO RELEVANCE to how we perform as a team.
Please, give it a rest boys. You're giving broken records a bad name. There is no news here. And that's the point.
Seems to me there are very few, if any, APOLOGISTS for Kenwright on here.
But there clearly are a few contented Evertonians who see more important things in life to get upset about than approaching a new season with more optimism than for a long long time, good squad, good manager and wonder what all the fuss is about. Some look at things in perspective and see that. whilst it would be great to have more money, better stadium etc, we could also be owned by complete cunts who give not a toss for the club, saddle it with huge debts, double prices over 3 years (or in City's case 1 year), change managers every season.
But then, whinging bastards always find something to whinge about and have no concept of the facts that things could be much worse.
Because if you did you wouldn't fucking whinge incessantly just because our chairman gave an interview in which he mentioned all manner of trivia.
I repeat, get out more, engage, smile, think positive, don't dance on pinheads, don't worry about a Bill Kenwright interview because, guess what,it has NO RELEVANCE to how we perform as a team.
Please, give it a rest boys. You're giving broken records a bad name. There is no news here. And that's the point.
Alan Clarke
85 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:18:19
85 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:18:19
Kenwright got lucky with the recession and economic downturn. He also got lucky with the fiasco that is Portsmouth. He now has the perfect excuse - either there's no investors out there or any investors will take Everton the way of Portsmouth. The fact that Villa, Sunderland, Birmingham, Spurs and City have all found investment despite being lower placed clubs than us and have not gone bankrupt, shows Kenwright has no intention of letting go of the reigns at Goodison. As long as he is in charge we will always be skint and we will always be a few good signings away from a winning side.
I'm amazed that people like you Alan Kirwin are content with this. The way you express your views on this site, I had you down as a fella who had a bit more passion than that. I am also unsure why Gartside thinks Kenwright is the best chairman, perhaps he's the nicest guy but he cannot be judged to be the best chairman.
I'm amazed that people like you Alan Kirwin are content with this. The way you express your views on this site, I had you down as a fella who had a bit more passion than that. I am also unsure why Gartside thinks Kenwright is the best chairman, perhaps he's the nicest guy but he cannot be judged to be the best chairman.
David O'Keefe
86 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:30:48
86 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:30:48
Alan thank you for that gratutuious personal attack that makes no sense. The debate had been relatively civil up to that point so thanks for lowering the tone.
The surname business Alan is because there are too many Davids on this thread, has this not come to your attention?
The surname business Alan is because there are too many Davids on this thread, has this not come to your attention?
Brian Waring
87 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:35:55
87 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:35:55
It's funny how some of you keep using the same line, that Kenwright has ' made mistakes ' Well lads the reality is that he is a fucking liar of the highest order.
Can any of you defend the lies he has told over his tenure, or do you just put them down to mistakes?
Also, what chairman comes out with " Don't ask me, I'm just the chairman " When asked a serious question?
Can any of you defend the lies he has told over his tenure, or do you just put them down to mistakes?
Also, what chairman comes out with " Don't ask me, I'm just the chairman " When asked a serious question?
David Booth
88 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:39:16
88 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:39:16
Alan (Clarke): in Alan (Kirwin's) defence, he's trying to say yes, Bill Kenwright perhaps could do better in some respects and he is a bit of a dreamer BUT, for the first time in 15 years our team are on the threshold of something big this season and it just seems so improper that some people will always find something to moan about.
If there was a MAJOR problem, then fair enough. However, when we're on the crest of a potential wave I think such negativity permeates and has helped to hold us back in the past.
Time to start thinking positive on all fronts: from we fans upwards, through the team to the board.
Onward Evertonians and let's stop fighting amongst ourselves?
If the team's successful, what else matters?
If there was a MAJOR problem, then fair enough. However, when we're on the crest of a potential wave I think such negativity permeates and has helped to hold us back in the past.
Time to start thinking positive on all fronts: from we fans upwards, through the team to the board.
Onward Evertonians and let's stop fighting amongst ourselves?
If the team's successful, what else matters?
Eugene Ruane
89 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:24:40
89 Posted 31/07/2010 at 20:24:40
Alan Kirwan, this is your THIRD post on this.
And in each post you're telling people they shouldn't be arsed with this non-issue and instead should be out and about 'engaging;.
Question
Instead of telling us this (three times), shouldn't you have been para-gliding over Sussex with a big smile on your face?
If you're not interested - absolutely fine, YOU go out and 'engage'.
No matter how pointless you might think this 'debate' is, obviously (by the number of posts) there are many who disagree.
Well here's a way we can ALL be happy.
You go off and grin at people and let those who choose to post on TW post on TW.
(seriously - why is how strangers spend their Saturday so important to you?)
Also, I have to point out that there WAS a whinging tone towards the end of your last post.
And in each post you're telling people they shouldn't be arsed with this non-issue and instead should be out and about 'engaging;.
Question
Instead of telling us this (three times), shouldn't you have been para-gliding over Sussex with a big smile on your face?
If you're not interested - absolutely fine, YOU go out and 'engage'.
No matter how pointless you might think this 'debate' is, obviously (by the number of posts) there are many who disagree.
Well here's a way we can ALL be happy.
You go off and grin at people and let those who choose to post on TW post on TW.
(seriously - why is how strangers spend their Saturday so important to you?)
Also, I have to point out that there WAS a whinging tone towards the end of your last post.
Gavin Ramejkis
90 Posted 01/08/2010 at 00:50:58
90 Posted 01/08/2010 at 00:50:58
Frank McGregor did you watch the game today as you seem so interested if I did? In situ, Evertontv, armchair or Sky Sports highlights? When you have answered that can you please enlighten me on what that has got to do with whether or not BK has shown the sort of business acumen this club deserves?
Gavin Ramejkis
91 Posted 01/08/2010 at 01:09:13
91 Posted 01/08/2010 at 01:09:13
Phil Bellis I'm not certain but Max Main could also be another Rupert Tarlington or Gerrard Madden pseudonym as the only posts I've found from him are pro the club on the Gosling fiasco and this, a source IP check or counter statement?
Derek Thomas
92 Posted 01/08/2010 at 01:09:53
92 Posted 01/08/2010 at 01:09:53
Bill started of as an actor, aka pretends to be some one else for a living. He has a talent for plausablilty.
He faked emotions as part of his acting job and once you can fake sincerity you've got it sorted.
He exists by getting backers ( called angels in the trade ) to put money into his productions for a) The glamour of it all, the roar of the greasepaint the smell of the crowd. b) mingle with the celebs and ' stars ' c) Oh and the chance that you might get a return if it does well at the box office ( bums on seats laddie, bums on seats ) 60%+ b.o.s. every day 7 days a week incld matinees.
BULLSHITTER! Doesn't even begin to cover it.
That said he seems a nice bloke to have a night out with, not a misery anyway, but so what.
He is what he is, it's his nature, the problem is that we need and require some one with a different nature and a lot more cash, or access to it and the nouse to use it to it's fullest.
And why haven't we got one??
I blame Hibbert and Osman, thats who, with help from that other waster Bily.
He faked emotions as part of his acting job and once you can fake sincerity you've got it sorted.
He exists by getting backers ( called angels in the trade ) to put money into his productions for a) The glamour of it all, the roar of the greasepaint the smell of the crowd. b) mingle with the celebs and ' stars ' c) Oh and the chance that you might get a return if it does well at the box office ( bums on seats laddie, bums on seats ) 60%+ b.o.s. every day 7 days a week incld matinees.
BULLSHITTER! Doesn't even begin to cover it.
That said he seems a nice bloke to have a night out with, not a misery anyway, but so what.
He is what he is, it's his nature, the problem is that we need and require some one with a different nature and a lot more cash, or access to it and the nouse to use it to it's fullest.
And why haven't we got one??
I blame Hibbert and Osman, thats who, with help from that other waster Bily.
Max Main
93 Posted 01/08/2010 at 01:22:44
93 Posted 01/08/2010 at 01:22:44
I don't know who either of those people are.
Imagine though, an Everton fan being "pro the club"? Crazy world we live in.
Imagine though, an Everton fan being "pro the club"? Crazy world we live in.
Chad Schofield
94 Posted 01/08/2010 at 07:06:10
94 Posted 01/08/2010 at 07:06:10
Christ. Well after a fun Saturday handgliding with a big smile on my face, it was interesting to discover this "balanced" debate.
While those "Salivating Sheep of Discord" try to shout louder than those Zenned out, enso-strongapologists (or did I use the wrong context there?) vehemently defend the honour of our Glorious Leader.
All the classics have come out in defence of Bill:
- He's a true blue
- He's made some mistakes, but..
- He employed and did not sack David Moyes
- We could have ended up like Portsmouth, West Ham...
- we could be The RS, Man Utd
- We're not a London club
- Would you rather be City
- Yadda, yadda fucking yadda
While this entire thread was free from personal attack until post 87(?!), effectively little has really been added to the arguments which were for and against DK. Well except that that Bill's Blue Knights kept using the argument then that NOBODY was interested in investing/buying Everton because of our "shitty ground" and all the other bile. The only thing that has changed is that one of the arguments used is now obsolete... Bill has seen a number of suitors, regardless of whether we see a queue leading out of GP.
I've said it elsewhere that I'm looking forward to this season, and I truly am. I don't hate Bill, I don't expect investment without return (Bill will see a hefty mark up on his investment and good on him), things are looking good at the moment... BUT without money to increase wages we will always struggle to keep hold of our players. Arteta and Pieneaar may still leave because of this. And all of the other things which are worrying and have not changed under Bill's tenure.
It's not quite as clear cut as we have achieved everything thus far in spite of Bill Kenwright, but that is closer to a balanced argument in my mind than some of the gushing shite I've read as to why I should not question him.
While those "Salivating Sheep of Discord" try to shout louder than those Zenned out, enso-strong
All the classics have come out in defence of Bill:
- He's a true blue
- He's made some mistakes, but..
- He employed and did not sack David Moyes
- We could have ended up like Portsmouth, West Ham...
- we could be The RS, Man Utd
- We're not a London club
- Would you rather be City
- Yadda, yadda fucking yadda
While this entire thread was free from personal attack until post 87(?!), effectively little has really been added to the arguments which were for and against DK. Well except that that Bill's Blue Knights kept using the argument then that NOBODY was interested in investing/buying Everton because of our "shitty ground" and all the other bile. The only thing that has changed is that one of the arguments used is now obsolete... Bill has seen a number of suitors, regardless of whether we see a queue leading out of GP.
I've said it elsewhere that I'm looking forward to this season, and I truly am. I don't hate Bill, I don't expect investment without return (Bill will see a hefty mark up on his investment and good on him), things are looking good at the moment... BUT without money to increase wages we will always struggle to keep hold of our players. Arteta and Pieneaar may still leave because of this. And all of the other things which are worrying and have not changed under Bill's tenure.
It's not quite as clear cut as we have achieved everything thus far in spite of Bill Kenwright, but that is closer to a balanced argument in my mind than some of the gushing shite I've read as to why I should not question him.
Eugene Ruane
95 Posted 01/08/2010 at 07:58:09
95 Posted 01/08/2010 at 07:58:09
Yes it certainly is a crazy, topsy-turvy old world we live in.......BILL!
Aiden Doyle
96 Posted 01/08/2010 at 08:24:24
96 Posted 01/08/2010 at 08:24:24
I?m genuinely curious, Gavin. What?s the story behind the Rupert Tarlington & Gerrard Madden pseudonyms?
Eugene Ruane
97 Posted 01/08/2010 at 09:52:10
97 Posted 01/08/2010 at 09:52:10
Aiden - God knows who they were.
Personally I think 'they' were a feller from Woolton called Jeremy Lewis who was the 'moderator' (java2000?) on the Echo Everton forum.
A real internet warrior and a feller who banned more or less everyone who posted against DK (then shat himself when someone traced him)
Anyway, whoever 'they' were, their only opinion on anything to do with Everton was to do with supporting Bill and DK.
They posted on nothing else, had no opinion on players, games, Moyes - just Bill and DK.
And when DK died, basically so did they.
Although I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe one of them (coz like they WERE two different people!) were cryogenically frozen after Kirkby and 'thawed out' yesterday, specially for this post.
(what do you reckon Max?)
Anyway, here is some of Rupert's finest work.
http://toffeeweb.com/season/08-09/comment/mailbag/mbitem.php?submissionID=10943
(love THE Tom Hughes description of 'Rupert' - 'Everton's Lord Haw Haw')
Personally I think 'they' were a feller from Woolton called Jeremy Lewis who was the 'moderator' (java2000?) on the Echo Everton forum.
A real internet warrior and a feller who banned more or less everyone who posted against DK (then shat himself when someone traced him)
Anyway, whoever 'they' were, their only opinion on anything to do with Everton was to do with supporting Bill and DK.
They posted on nothing else, had no opinion on players, games, Moyes - just Bill and DK.
And when DK died, basically so did they.
Although I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe one of them (coz like they WERE two different people!) were cryogenically frozen after Kirkby and 'thawed out' yesterday, specially for this post.
(what do you reckon Max?)
Anyway, here is some of Rupert's finest work.
http://toffeeweb.com/season/08-09/comment/mailbag/mbitem.php?submissionID=10943
(love THE Tom Hughes description of 'Rupert' - 'Everton's Lord Haw Haw')
Ciarán McGlone
98 Posted 01/08/2010 at 10:37:19
98 Posted 01/08/2010 at 10:37:19
"Imagine though, an Everton fan being "pro the club"? "
------------------------
Point of order. Bill Kenwright is not Everton Football Club....and being unabe to criticise someone who has harmed the club on so many occasions..is not being 'pro the club'
In fact, it could be quite cogently argued that it's quite the contrary.
------------------------
Point of order. Bill Kenwright is not Everton Football Club....and being unabe to criticise someone who has harmed the club on so many occasions..is not being 'pro the club'
In fact, it could be quite cogently argued that it's quite the contrary.
Aiden Doyle
99 Posted 01/08/2010 at 10:42:09
99 Posted 01/08/2010 at 10:42:09
Thanks Eugene (I'd forgotten that you were EJ Ruane back then). Interesting stuff; I'm not sure how it passed me by at the time.
Maybe I''m too trusting but, no matter how much another poster's views differ from mine, it's never occurred to me that (playing Devils's Advocate, obvious sarcasm etc. aside) they were likely to be anything less than genuine before. Perhaps I should learn to be more critical in my appraisal.
Maybe I''m too trusting but, no matter how much another poster's views differ from mine, it's never occurred to me that (playing Devils's Advocate, obvious sarcasm etc. aside) they were likely to be anything less than genuine before. Perhaps I should learn to be more critical in my appraisal.
Brendan O'Doherty
100 Posted 01/08/2010 at 12:03:20
100 Posted 01/08/2010 at 12:03:20
Length of tenure: 10+ years
Frequency of possible investment 'delegations': 7 - 8 per year
Actual Investment: £0
After 99 posts it still doesn't add up.
Frequency of possible investment 'delegations': 7 - 8 per year
Actual Investment: £0
After 99 posts it still doesn't add up.
David Booth
101 Posted 01/08/2010 at 13:11:13
101 Posted 01/08/2010 at 13:11:13
Teamsheet does though Brendan?
Brendan O'Doherty
102 Posted 01/08/2010 at 13:34:52
102 Posted 01/08/2010 at 13:34:52
Yes David it does. I'm looking forward to the new season as much as everyone else.
I'm not a BK hater at all. But people have the right to ask legitimate questions about the running of the club.
Investment or not, we need some new blood at the helm with fresh ideas.
I'm not a BK hater at all. But people have the right to ask legitimate questions about the running of the club.
Investment or not, we need some new blood at the helm with fresh ideas.
Ray Roche
103 Posted 01/08/2010 at 14:33:45
103 Posted 01/08/2010 at 14:33:45
Roy Mcleod @30
Roy, I haven't heard that Steele corroborated Kenwrights claims but BK said that Steele would be annoyed at his revelation but, come on, can you see Presley and Steele wandering around London and not being seen?
Roy, I haven't heard that Steele corroborated Kenwrights claims but BK said that Steele would be annoyed at his revelation but, come on, can you see Presley and Steele wandering around London and not being seen?
Max Main
104 Posted 01/08/2010 at 14:32:44
104 Posted 01/08/2010 at 14:32:44
Whilst I am fairly confident you don't actually think I am this Rupert chap, I can't be too sure. And though I don't really care, the suggestion implies that I have used a ":)" in my writing before. And that is just too much.
So I'll say it once more, and once more only: I am not any of those people mentioned above.
So I'll say it once more, and once more only: I am not any of those people mentioned above.
Michael Brien
105 Posted 01/08/2010 at 15:03:04
105 Posted 01/08/2010 at 15:03:04
Eugene - this is not the Michael Brienweb - don't be so fucking patronising.
Andy Morden
106 Posted 01/08/2010 at 15:11:25
106 Posted 01/08/2010 at 15:11:25
Blinking nora, you gents crack me up.
Any of you gents fans of Charlie Brooker? Here are his wise words regarding online debates. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/02/comment.charliebrooker
This thread is one of those life immitating art, imitating life, imitating life thingies....
As you were!
Any of you gents fans of Charlie Brooker? Here are his wise words regarding online debates. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/02/comment.charliebrooker
This thread is one of those life immitating art, imitating life, imitating life thingies....
As you were!
David O'Keefe
107 Posted 01/08/2010 at 15:52:36
107 Posted 01/08/2010 at 15:52:36
Andy I prefer the David Mitchell approach
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/15/online-feedback-public-sector
"It just goes to show you can't be too careful!"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/15/online-feedback-public-sector
"It just goes to show you can't be too careful!"
Andy Morden
108 Posted 01/08/2010 at 16:09:29
108 Posted 01/08/2010 at 16:09:29
David, quite right, it does indeed show you can't be too careful.
And it is better to be careful than go deabting schlong length on the net!
And it is better to be careful than go deabting schlong length on the net!
David O'Keefe
109 Posted 01/08/2010 at 16:37:18
109 Posted 01/08/2010 at 16:37:18
True, Andy, but we're addicted have some sympathy for us.
Andy Morden
110 Posted 01/08/2010 at 17:29:05
110 Posted 01/08/2010 at 17:29:05
David, I have empathy never mind sympathy, I'm a fully paid up member of the Evertonia online wang-debating club.
John Reeves
111 Posted 01/08/2010 at 22:50:29
111 Posted 01/08/2010 at 22:50:29
I see a lot of people having a go at Bill Kenwright and do not understand why he has been great for our club.
I actually know Bill well through my uncle and it hurts him all the bad press he gets. He loves Everton more tha, anything and has said a few times he will not sell while we are on the up and let someone else get all the glory and who can blame him.
So enjoy the ride, guys, we are going in the right direction and, just to prove I am not a hoaxer, watch out for a sale you might not expect this month.
David O'Keefe
112 Posted 01/08/2010 at 23:16:06
112 Posted 01/08/2010 at 23:16:06
What bad press? Bill gets a very easy ride from the press....oh forget it.
Tommy Meehan
113 Posted 01/08/2010 at 23:20:19
113 Posted 01/08/2010 at 23:20:19
John have you been reading Nostradamus again or maybe Mystic Meg?
Eugene Ruane
114 Posted 01/08/2010 at 23:12:53
114 Posted 01/08/2010 at 23:12:53
BAD PRESS!!!???
Whoever makes Bill's kecks must have orders to put in a really big arse-pocket, so there's plenty of room for all those Echo 'reporters'.
Whoever makes Bill's kecks must have orders to put in a really big arse-pocket, so there's plenty of room for all those Echo 'reporters'.
Ste Traverse
115 Posted 02/08/2010 at 00:51:38
115 Posted 02/08/2010 at 00:51:38
John. If Kenwright won't sell while we are supposidly 'on the up' because he doesn't want anyone else to get the glory it proves once and for all he's in it for himself and not the club.
It fucking annoys me so much that despite all his cock-ups he arrogantly thinks he should be central to decision making at the club. He's got an ego bigger than the Albert Dock.
It fucking annoys me so much that despite all his cock-ups he arrogantly thinks he should be central to decision making at the club. He's got an ego bigger than the Albert Dock.
Roy Coyne
116 Posted 02/08/2010 at 00:31:27
116 Posted 02/08/2010 at 00:31:27
Having read all the posts,I now realise that to some Bill is bullet proof,my own opinion is best explained by Jay Harris great post Jay. Bill may be a great guy but is an awful chairman shortage of cash may not be his fault but no-one ELSE is responsable for his lies to the people that should be respected by him,and Mr Dodd please Rich stop taking the piss it is getting tedious
John Daley
117 Posted 02/08/2010 at 00:39:43
117 Posted 02/08/2010 at 00:39:43
John Reeves,
Kenwright "has said a few times he will not sell while Everton are on the up and let someone else get the glory and who can blame him"
This is supposed to be a defence of the man? It should not be about BK's quest for personal glory.
He should be acting in the best interests of the club, not seeking to massage his fucking ego.
He's previously claimed that he would happily step aside if he could find a suitable buyer and now you're saying he's stated that he will never do that because he doesn't want another party to possibly attain the adulation he feels he is deserving of? Just another example of Billy Boy Bluff misleading the fans then. The Blue Fairy's never gonna turn him into a real boy at this rate.
Kenwright "has said a few times he will not sell while Everton are on the up and let someone else get the glory and who can blame him"
This is supposed to be a defence of the man? It should not be about BK's quest for personal glory.
He should be acting in the best interests of the club, not seeking to massage his fucking ego.
He's previously claimed that he would happily step aside if he could find a suitable buyer and now you're saying he's stated that he will never do that because he doesn't want another party to possibly attain the adulation he feels he is deserving of? Just another example of Billy Boy Bluff misleading the fans then. The Blue Fairy's never gonna turn him into a real boy at this rate.
Chad Schofield
118 Posted 02/08/2010 at 00:08:45
118 Posted 02/08/2010 at 00:08:45
Come on John, "watch out for a sale you might not expect"... If we sell anyone %28including Arteta, Pieneaar or the Yak%29 you can claim first hand knowledge, but if there's no sale then you can simply say it fell through, or that your uncle'ss mate intervened. Hardly proof - but that's not to say that what you're saying is a lie.
I'm sure it's in Bill's nature to take criticism to heart more than he should in many respects. However, given his profession I'm certain that he's incredibly thick skinned as well.
It's your point that he has no intention to sell while we are progressing that I find more interesting, because I'm sure that he would simply change that to not wanting to leave us sinking should we take a downward turn or some other reason for staying on because we're treading water. I don't believe Bill wants to let go of his trainset, regardless of the impact that has on the club, because in his mind he and pretty much he alone has the club's best interest at heart.
I'm sure he's a lovely, warm, generous and charismatic man... But he is also a fairly ruthless businessman by all accounts. Obviously, as with all people he is imperfect, but the magnitude of his errors, gaffs, failures and downright lies he would not accept from an employee of his.
Do I want him run out of town and strung up, certainly not... But he has to see that the club needs more investment than he can possibly offer or secure. He will always be a part of the club, but being Chairman is not his God given right and blocking investment/buyers because the person offering/fronting it is not a mirror image of himself is not what is best for his beloved Everton. Again though my fear is that if Bill met himself trying to move the club forward he would instantly dismiss him.
Diluting control may be one way in which to secure more money and in a post DK era, perhaps the club might be happier to accept
.
Every
year feels like it's a big year, and maybe if Rodwell does as well as he has been we can sell him next summer to keep ourselves going, but we need to provide money to sorting out Goodison, and ensure that we are meeting the expectations of top player's wages... Otherwise Bill will very soon find us no longer moving forward and rethinking his position.
I'm sure it's in Bill's nature to take criticism to heart more than he should in many respects. However, given his profession I'm certain that he's incredibly thick skinned as well.
It's your point that he has no intention to sell while we are progressing that I find more interesting, because I'm sure that he would simply change that to not wanting to leave us sinking should we take a downward turn or some other reason for staying on because we're treading water. I don't believe Bill wants to let go of his trainset, regardless of the impact that has on the club, because in his mind he and pretty much he alone has the club's best interest at heart.
I'm sure he's a lovely, warm, generous and charismatic man... But he is also a fairly ruthless businessman by all accounts. Obviously, as with all people he is imperfect, but the magnitude of his errors, gaffs, failures and downright lies he would not accept from an employee of his.
Do I want him run out of town and strung up, certainly not... But he has to see that the club needs more investment than he can possibly offer or secure. He will always be a part of the club, but being Chairman is not his God given right and blocking investment/buyers because the person offering/fronting it is not a mirror image of himself is not what is best for his beloved Everton. Again though my fear is that if Bill met himself trying to move the club forward he would instantly dismiss him.
Diluting control may be one way in which to secure more money and in a post DK era, perhaps the club might be happier to accept
.
Every
year feels like it's a big year, and maybe if Rodwell does as well as he has been we can sell him next summer to keep ourselves going, but we need to provide money to sorting out Goodison, and ensure that we are meeting the expectations of top player's wages... Otherwise Bill will very soon find us no longer moving forward and rethinking his position.
Brendan O'Doherty
119 Posted 02/08/2010 at 01:23:40
119 Posted 02/08/2010 at 01:23:40
Post #113 is a wind-up.
Don't fall for it.
I smell a rat.
Don't fall for it.
I smell a rat.
Tommy Meehan
120 Posted 02/08/2010 at 01:51:53
120 Posted 02/08/2010 at 01:51:53
Agreed Brendan; it seems to be a completely disingenuous button pressing post
Brendan O'Doherty
121 Posted 02/08/2010 at 01:57:42
121 Posted 02/08/2010 at 01:57:42
Provocative in the extreme, Tommy.
Lyndon Lloyd
122 Posted 02/08/2010 at 02:58:01
122 Posted 02/08/2010 at 02:58:01
Without getting into the whole "Everton are where they are right now because of Moyes and in spite of Kenwright and his empty wallet" as I'm sure others will raise that part of the debate, John Reeves, my number one problem with Bill is that I can't believe a single word he says. There have just been too many broken promises and demonstrable untruths from him over the years.
And if your assertion that Kenwright claims he won't sell the club while it's on the up because he doesn't want to let someone else take the credit is true, then that flies in the face of his insistence that the club has been sale for years and he's working "24/7" to find a buyer.
Maybe you can ask him to clarify that situation the next time you see him, John!
And if your assertion that Kenwright claims he won't sell the club while it's on the up because he doesn't want to let someone else take the credit is true, then that flies in the face of his insistence that the club has been sale for years and he's working "24/7" to find a buyer.
Maybe you can ask him to clarify that situation the next time you see him, John!
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
1 Posted 31/07/2010 at 00:24:45
You'll get all the conspiracy theorists posting now... I can't wait!!