The Mail Bag
Expectation and ToffeeWeb
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I've been a Blue for long as I can remember and that's a long long time. I read ToffeeWeb daily and WOW what depressive and bitter blues we are. Expectation, yes we all want to win, be Champions... but does anybody actually believe in their heart that we can compete with City, Man Utd and Chelsea week on week? Yes, on our day, we can beat anybody but every day we cannot. Yes, we are a Top 4 team, but in the 5th - 8th top 4 and we will most probably finish here again this season.
Let's give the team support and Moyes at least until May and then judge our team and management. Instead of slagging our players off week-in, week-out, give them support. Every week, we have a new hero and a new villain. Forget, support them all.
What's more depressing, watching Everton or reading Toffee Web?
Look at the league and every team is the same as us, not performing.
COYB
Mike Hargreaves, Posted 24/01/2011 at 07:59:52
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We all support the team emotionally and financially and are as passionate as any other supporters but what a lot of us can see is the death throes of our club and it isn't nice. We've witnessed it happened at other clubs (Leeds, Nottingham Forest etc). I can understand what your feelings are Mike but this goes deeper than just shouting COYBs and leaving the players, management and Board without any criticisms.
The 12 teams that are above us, including the mighty Blackpool, are obviously performing!
This is the first post I've ever responded to!!!
I totally agree - I'm like a chornically depressed lemming after reading this site for 5 mins.
Then again I don't pump £40 of my hard earned squids into the club each week so maybe my frustration is not quite as riled as others.
I totally agree - I'm like a chornically depressed lemming after reading this site for 5 mins.
Then again I don't pump £40 of my hard earned squids into the club each week so maybe my frustration is not quite as riled as others.
What a load of shite !
I don't expect us to win everything and be champions.
I just want us to be in with a fighting chance of at least competing for some silverware.
As for competing with Citeh, look at the past 2 seasons results. We can compete when Moyes puts the right team out.
I don't expect us to win everything and be champions.
I just want us to be in with a fighting chance of at least competing for some silverware.
As for competing with Citeh, look at the past 2 seasons results. We can compete when Moyes puts the right team out.
Mike, it's not just about the league, its about the club as a whole. We have a chairman who is as skint as fuck, and you only ever see him when things are going well. We have a manager, who after 9 yrs, still doesn't seem to know his strongest 11, and picking players who should be, at best, squad players.
The biggest problem, is that lads I speak to just don't give a fuck anymore. They don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, and can only see things getting worse, e.g our better players wanting out somewhere along the line, and no money to replace them, what happens then?
As I said Mike, its not all just about the manager, players that is getting everyone down, its everything to do with the club.
The biggest problem, is that lads I speak to just don't give a fuck anymore. They don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, and can only see things getting worse, e.g our better players wanting out somewhere along the line, and no money to replace them, what happens then?
As I said Mike, its not all just about the manager, players that is getting everyone down, its everything to do with the club.
I am still depressed
Good post Mike, tough times but we need to stick together. Bill's skint, it's not his fault is it. Great if he wasn't but what can we do about it.
No chance of a sale with us still being at Goodison.
No chance of a sale with us still being at Goodison.
I still support Moyes, cos he has got us over 60 points in each of the past three seasons. Consistency! No other manager without the money that Chelski, City, Utd, Spurs, Liverpool and Villa can say that. None!
That alone deserves putting up with say another year of the crap we are seeing too often this season. It's bloody amazing that we can take apart teams that have a go at us, but this season those we are expected to beat are lapping us up: a quite unimaginative attack; long periods of possession, but which is lifeless; and hitting us on the the break.
Moyes can point to not having had the strikers this year, and no money to get new blood. But he made a big mistake turning down money for Yak in the summer - £6 million was sorely needed.
We went into this season blowing our own trumpet too often, but we hadn't a top flight striker who was fit and in form. It should've been addressed one way or the other.
We have a few days and a couple of bob to give us a chance for the rest of the campaign. We need to win 4 league games. I'm not thinking beyond that right now. I say Moyes deserves another full season, and at least wheel and deal funds, bringing in a striker and a winger.
All the talk of Man U is for the birds Mr Moyes, as disrespectful as that often was to us - though never publicly from you. You have to improve the next few weeks, and turn it round from the summer. Not interested in excuses of no cash. Wheel and deal, and get balance into that team. It is your team!
That alone deserves putting up with say another year of the crap we are seeing too often this season. It's bloody amazing that we can take apart teams that have a go at us, but this season those we are expected to beat are lapping us up: a quite unimaginative attack; long periods of possession, but which is lifeless; and hitting us on the the break.
Moyes can point to not having had the strikers this year, and no money to get new blood. But he made a big mistake turning down money for Yak in the summer - £6 million was sorely needed.
We went into this season blowing our own trumpet too often, but we hadn't a top flight striker who was fit and in form. It should've been addressed one way or the other.
We have a few days and a couple of bob to give us a chance for the rest of the campaign. We need to win 4 league games. I'm not thinking beyond that right now. I say Moyes deserves another full season, and at least wheel and deal funds, bringing in a striker and a winger.
All the talk of Man U is for the birds Mr Moyes, as disrespectful as that often was to us - though never publicly from you. You have to improve the next few weeks, and turn it round from the summer. Not interested in excuses of no cash. Wheel and deal, and get balance into that team. It is your team!
Mike Hargreaves -
I find "Eastenders" depressing so, guess what? I don't watch it.
I'm perplexed by people like you who want to change the way other Blues think / feel / express their opinions. If you're so turned off by it, why not simply go elsewhere? TW is not a communist state. Nor is it the kop thankfully. I don't like being told how to behave / respond / support my club.
And, for the record, anyone who has seen my posts over the years knows I'm neither overly optimistic or pessimistic and neither pro or anti Kenwright / Moyes. I simply like to comment and add to the debate, not fit into some template of how to respond.
I support EFC first and foremost as I have done for around 40 years and I'll do it on my terms thanks.
Calling us bitter blues sounds like you're from the other side.
I find "Eastenders" depressing so, guess what? I don't watch it.
I'm perplexed by people like you who want to change the way other Blues think / feel / express their opinions. If you're so turned off by it, why not simply go elsewhere? TW is not a communist state. Nor is it the kop thankfully. I don't like being told how to behave / respond / support my club.
And, for the record, anyone who has seen my posts over the years knows I'm neither overly optimistic or pessimistic and neither pro or anti Kenwright / Moyes. I simply like to comment and add to the debate, not fit into some template of how to respond.
I support EFC first and foremost as I have done for around 40 years and I'll do it on my terms thanks.
Calling us bitter blues sounds like you're from the other side.
Is it really surprising that people are criticising the club? We have as bad a team as we have had in years. With no signings yet again and 1st teamers leaving. Scraping a draw with the bottom club at home. Poor football week in week out. This is not the official site. This is a forum for people to voice their opinion on the club we all love. When their is something positive to talk about it will be on this site.
Mike, it's not like we "whingers" go out and boo the team off the park week-in, week-out. We tend to do that on these here pages as a way of letting off steam, and also because we can't pretend everything is nice, just one more shove and we'll be in the Champion's League, and so on.
Watching Everton
Thin line between sucess and failure.
6 more goals turning six of those draws ( Wolves, Wigan, West Ham twice, Blackpool and Fulham ? ) into wins and we would have another 12 points and be fourth.
You'd all be cheering then.
6 more goals turning six of those draws ( Wolves, Wigan, West Ham twice, Blackpool and Fulham ? ) into wins and we would have another 12 points and be fourth.
You'd all be cheering then.
Thin line between success and failure.
6 more goals turning six of those draws (Wolves, Wigan, West Ham twice, Blackpool and Fulham?) into wins and we would have another 12 points and be fourth.
You'd all be cheering then.
-----------
I would like to see us throw off the shackles and go for wins. Win a few, lose a few. But the majority of our games have been draws. Tell me there are no more draws in the next ten games, and I'd take it. Yes, without telling me whether are wins or defeats, I'd take it.
Had it been six wins and six defeats, we'd be 7th.
FFS, get a striker or keep Vaughan, but go for it. Someone said, worst team in ages. Individually, we have very good players -? Baines, Distin, Heitinga, Jags, Cahill, Felli, Arteta, Saha ? are you having a laff, it's quality ? bloody should be!
Awww fuck.
Whenever I read a post like this, I get a mental picture of Eric Idle nailed to a cross whistling.
Seriously, have I missed something?
I really don't get this post or it's bizzaro world 'logic'
Mike you ask...
"but does anybody actually believe in their heart that we can compete with City, Man Utd and Chelsea week on week?"
Erm...well no I don't and therefore it is entirely reasonable, logical and natural that I am a 'depressive and bitter blue'.
Given we're humans, prone to all the foibles and weaknesses of our species, why does people reacting with despair to a miserable situation baffle you?
Believe me, it is your response to the present situation that is odd.
Whenever I read a post like this, I get a mental picture of Eric Idle nailed to a cross whistling.
Seriously, have I missed something?
I really don't get this post or it's bizzaro world 'logic'
Mike you ask...
"but does anybody actually believe in their heart that we can compete with City, Man Utd and Chelsea week on week?"
Erm...well no I don't and therefore it is entirely reasonable, logical and natural that I am a 'depressive and bitter blue'.
Given we're humans, prone to all the foibles and weaknesses of our species, why does people reacting with despair to a miserable situation baffle you?
Believe me, it is your response to the present situation that is odd.
Karl - 6 less goals could have us 9 points worse off & bottom of the league on 18 points. Any other irrelevant fantasy scenarios perhaps should be in a seperate discussion rather than cluttering up every topic with the same tedious comment.
Osman on the wing. Playing Heitinga who clearly does not care and is out of form.Persisting with Arteta in middle when he is out of form.
Playing Saha, Yak and then Beckford up front on thie own.
Negative tactics, refusing to throw men forward, relying on cahill to score goals.
Letting Piennar run down his contract, gosling going for free, keeping Yak not playing him, letting Yobo go out on loan, playing hibbert as a centre back.
These are all things I have come to expect and that what is depressing
Playing Saha, Yak and then Beckford up front on thie own.
Negative tactics, refusing to throw men forward, relying on cahill to score goals.
Letting Piennar run down his contract, gosling going for free, keeping Yak not playing him, letting Yobo go out on loan, playing hibbert as a centre back.
These are all things I have come to expect and that what is depressing
Sometimes I wonder if I support a different club. I've just read Mike Hargreaves's post and wonder if I am a proper Evertonian. A pal came into my workplace a few days ago and told me that he had just read in the paper that Everton were a well run debt-free club. Actually a moaning bastard is what he called me. It seems it was the Daily Mirror article, referred to by Colin Fittzpatrick that he meant. I couldn't be bothered arguing, but it set me thinking.
According to all my mates, David Moyes is the business. Also, he is backed by the best, most loyal chairman in the game. These are guys who travel to Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal.
The TV pundits love him, the press talk of the fantastic job he has done. In fact, I have a horrible feeling that most Evertonians who go to every game think he is brilliant too. "Sensible and a man you are lucky to have" is how a mate described Bill Kenwright.
So, here are a few questions I'd like to ask: Are we too inward looking on ToffeeWeb? Are we expecting too much? Is the rest of the world right? Are we a pack of miserable bastards.
Or, are we realists who know that it doesn't have to be like this?
We are all pretty much agreed that Moyes is not our Messiah after 9 years of nothing and but for a mere 5 points we would be in the drop zone and Moyes like Avram Grant and a few others would be cannon fodder for the media in the sacking sweepstakes.
With most good Evertonians he has lost his credibility and the seaon offers absolutely nothing unless we get a miracle F.A.Cup run.
The absolute lack of activity in the transfer window shows what money we don't have and how unattractive we are for loan players and that is very scary to think we may have exactly the same squad next season and maybe the same manager.
What will it take to shake up Kenrightand his cronies?
With most good Evertonians he has lost his credibility and the seaon offers absolutely nothing unless we get a miracle F.A.Cup run.
The absolute lack of activity in the transfer window shows what money we don't have and how unattractive we are for loan players and that is very scary to think we may have exactly the same squad next season and maybe the same manager.
What will it take to shake up Kenrightand his cronies?
Anyone that has gripes or opinions about the way football is run in this country may be interested in this.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/football-inquiry-call-for-evidence/
I would like to appeal to the editor to bring the article titled "Time to do something about it then!" back onto the home page of TW rather than bullshit articles like this moaning about people moaning.
There are far more important issues which need to be dealt with, and this is an opportunity for readers of Toffeeweb to try and make a difference.
Thanks.
There are far more important issues which need to be dealt with, and this is an opportunity for readers of Toffeeweb to try and make a difference.
Thanks.
Peter #21 the trouble with government committees is that they too are pointless lipservice exercise. An awful lot of people know Tory Blair should be tried as a war criminal who committed the UK troops more than a year before the Gulf War started based upon a reime change thus making it an illegal war yet the committee do fuck all about it. Successive givernments have made claims to win votes about dealing with the banking fiascos and bonuses, yet again nothing has happened. The whole country has become a bunch of slackers and acceptant of far too many things.
my god bad spelling from an awful laptop at work - Regime not reime and governments
Gavin, get back to work!!!
I take on board what your saying Mike and it definitely is a depressing state of affairs at the moment.
My frustration as I'm sure most others is the fact that Moyes doesnt tend to pick the obvious line up and is far too loyal to under performing players...We have let go players recently which now appears grossly short sighted as no new blood looks like arriving this season.
In short I have given up on this campaign and by the looks of things next season doesnt promise much either mate. I actually find myself watching the Championship games and highlights these days instead of MOTD. Not because I think we'll be there next season but purely for entertainment value, its more passionate, less pantomime and there's actually a level of honesty there that doesnt exist in the overblown EPL.
I am basically saying that Everton and the overall league have been less than impressive this season and my interest has declined a bit....still get hugely pissed off at 5 o clock every saturday if things go awry...but it doesnt seem to last as long into the evenings these days....
My frustration as I'm sure most others is the fact that Moyes doesnt tend to pick the obvious line up and is far too loyal to under performing players...We have let go players recently which now appears grossly short sighted as no new blood looks like arriving this season.
In short I have given up on this campaign and by the looks of things next season doesnt promise much either mate. I actually find myself watching the Championship games and highlights these days instead of MOTD. Not because I think we'll be there next season but purely for entertainment value, its more passionate, less pantomime and there's actually a level of honesty there that doesnt exist in the overblown EPL.
I am basically saying that Everton and the overall league have been less than impressive this season and my interest has declined a bit....still get hugely pissed off at 5 o clock every saturday if things go awry...but it doesnt seem to last as long into the evenings these days....
Mike, whats incredibly depressing is that Toffeeweb and its readers are painted as somehow being disloyal to the cause and bitter about our lot.
I am not bitter, I am just angry at the treatment we are handed out on a daily basis by the club in general.
When it comes to the team, I am frustrated by the selection usually, the choices, the players out of position etc etc..
But not bitter.
I also get angry that some fans just don't get it. Despite all thats happened over the past few years that you should even try to tell others that we should support the team and stop complaining. As if its bad for the morale of the team.
If you believe toffeeweb is a bitter base your wrong. Its a vent yes, its a place to let go of a frustration or two, but its the nearest you will get to the probable truth.
There are some excellent contributors, both positive and critical with suggestions and analysis of a level not seen on the main site or elsewhere.
The official site gives you vanilla, toffeeweb gives you a raspberry.
I am not bitter, I am just angry at the treatment we are handed out on a daily basis by the club in general.
When it comes to the team, I am frustrated by the selection usually, the choices, the players out of position etc etc..
But not bitter.
I also get angry that some fans just don't get it. Despite all thats happened over the past few years that you should even try to tell others that we should support the team and stop complaining. As if its bad for the morale of the team.
If you believe toffeeweb is a bitter base your wrong. Its a vent yes, its a place to let go of a frustration or two, but its the nearest you will get to the probable truth.
There are some excellent contributors, both positive and critical with suggestions and analysis of a level not seen on the main site or elsewhere.
The official site gives you vanilla, toffeeweb gives you a raspberry.
Or a blueberry Christine? ...
Brian, its ok, I'm consulting at a bank
whilst i understand the post, i think its wrong that as Everton fans we should accept that we will not compete with Chelsea, Man U etc. We have to find the people to help us compete. Why should we accept second best??? If we do then we need to change our badge from Nil Satis Nisi Optimum to what ever the translation is for - we will settle for 4th to 8th and we dont mind losing
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1 Posted 24/01/2011 at 14:07:05
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we are not even top 8 anymore.
Liverpool, Sunderland, Bolton and Blackburn have seen to that.
We are even 2 points behind Blackpool who have a game in hand with only 16 games to go.
Every team is NOT the same as us, not performing ? there are 12 better teams right now.
And for me, it is MORE depressing watching Everton than reading ToffeeWeb.