The Mail Bag
Administration
Comments (91)
Apparently there are very strong rumours that Everton are very close to going into administration. Kenwright is trying to get some Hollywood pals to take on shares to head off the banks. Yak and Pienaar were pushed through to ease finances and we are encouraging Spurs to take Neville off the payroll.
I got a text to this effect this morning and a guy I know has had something similar from a few different people.
Probably a load of nonsense. Thought I'd throw it out there to see what others had heard because, if it's true, it's relegation. Worring times.
Martin Graves, Posted 26/01/2011 at 11:29:14
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Let's hope its a rumour but, as the saying goes, there is no smoke without fire.
I don't like for us to promote such rumours but in the current circumstances it makes no difference whether we do or not. So take it with your very own self-sized quantum of salt: grain, pinch, barrel-load.
Anothe theory is that there may be some daft fucker who wants to purchase a football club. That may be the reason there is no news from the club, and a reduction in the wage bill.
You do get the feeling something is about to break.
But as Chris No1 does say, no smoke with out fire.
Kev I don't think Rodwell and Jags would raise a quick £40m either.
Nick fould play, don't think Martin is a RS. He wrote a article a while back, "Are you a middle man"
@andrew_bankes not true according to the club. Rumours started on a forum
I hope he's right, although I have to admit that I struggle to believe anything that the club ever says!
Would you include Neville in this list?
Captive audience which puts up with endless shit from the club, wide skill base, strong opinions, enthusiastic, mad, endless analytical capability, high entertainment value, computer literacy skills, on-going pursuit of lost causes...
Even taking into account the new improved deals for the likes of Arteta, Coleman, Cahill, Baines and Anichebe, Everton continue to make money from several areas, notably satelite television amongst others.
If a company was going into administration they would be getting rid of their assets that would generate the most money ASAP.
Off the top of my head they were the names that came to my mind that would generate the most money in transfer fees.
There would be willing buyers because the club would have to sell them at lower the value they would value the player at in order to acvhieve a quick sale.
As this is not going on i would suggest this story is a load of shite.
As for whether the club should deny this, I would imagine they don't feel the need to confirm or deny every rumour that appears on the internet. After all, Bill would have no time left for his 24/7 search for new investment if he did that would he?
Would make no sense. But as Michael says, you can understand why such worries will gain ears when we sell and don't buy despite resorting to Beckford and anichebe as our attacking pair. With all due respect, one of them alongside Saha is fair enough. But the pair leading the line? It's little wonder the side is lacking confidence.
And now Mboki whathisname is off to Germany. Where do we go? Certainly, we can't sell Vaughan.
At the end of the day, we are moving players on, there doesn't look like we will have any new arrivals, the accounts are late etc. As soon as this rumour started to circulate, the club should have nipped it in the bud imediately.
I got a text from a very good source that Everton aren't about to go into administration. What a shocker!!
I got a second text to say that the RS are bust and King Kenny has to sell his medals to buy players. What a shocker!!
I'm just really concerned at the club, with, what is it, £80 million of liabilities? Companies like experian saying we're technically insolvent? When the club doesnt publish accounts, effectively freezes shareholders out of the AGM, makes no real investment for 6 transfer windows (Fellaini = bought with money from Johnson and McFadden sales, etc), refuses to comment on such stories?
It's only really forums like ToffeeWeb where you can air frustration and get a discussion going.
Thanks for calling me a knobhead....
In the Diary that one!! I'll wait with baited breath I suppose. If we get through the window without selling anyone else I'll be happy(ish) if I'm honest. And that statement is a sorry state of affairs...
I dont think the story is true but, if it was, I don't think it would be a complete disaster.
Or have I given up already....
Not sure I'd fancy away trips to Brentford and Scunthorpe each week. Oh wait.....
Still think it's a load of crap, but Kenwright has to come clean.
With gates down, no Euro footy, wages up, probably less merchandise sales (due to recession & poor perforance of team) as well as finance costs rocketing it's got to be grimmer than normal.
Kenwright's business model was always a gamble & he has now played all his cards. I've no doubt we are currently cost-cutting as well as 'fire selling' the only assets we have left, the players, in an attempt to keep on living hand to mouth.
If we carry on like this it's only a matter of time until the inevitable administration happens but it will take more than text rumours to convince me we are there just yet.
Nurse... nurse... more medicine please.
If you have a genuine concern that a poster is a redshite, then send us direct feedback, justifying your claim. Otherwise... BACK OFF!!
You know, your broader insinuation that there are other RS posters on here is totally unacceptable. This is an Everton forum. If you do not accept that, you know what you can do... In, fact, I'll do it for you.
Let's hope it's a takeover in the offing, as Kevin Tully # 9 suggests.
I'll explain fully the situation with my company in private or when I have left as I will get sacked if I post in public and get found out for commerical reasons
Put bluntly we charge Everton over £100,000 p/a for several years for rental of product when they should have bought it for a higher outlay but with a 10 year life cycle of product would save over £750k during the life cycle as well as having an additional revenue option but they either dont get the revenue opportunity or dont know how to commercialise it.
The commercial operation of the business is a joke.
We all feel the same... but he and only he is holding our great club back. Kirkby is dead ? that was Kenwright's hope. Now let's move on with new owners with investment, ie, the Qatar royal family.
And for all those that say no to change, you cheer an American when he saves a certain goal, you cheer a Spaniard who creates a goal. Football is global. We are sponsored by a Thai brewery not a Merseyside company. Let us all look at the bigger picture and not be blinkered.
It seems Bungling Bill's gamble of hoping Moyes could get us into the Champions League on the cheap, and the club could become self-sufficient and he could keep control of the trainset, has backfired spectacularly.
The silence from the club is deafening ? they must read ToffeeWeb etc, so must be only too aware of the fans' hysteria and the damaging rumours generated on internet chat forums and the press. One statement on the official website from either Kenwright or Elstone would blow all these damaging rumours out of the water. So why are they not doing that...?
For the last two summers, we've been waiting for some big signings to come in, once the Sky TV money gets deposited, which I believe is around mid-August. As we all know, none of the money has gone on signings, with Distin, Bily & Heitinga coming in from the money received from the Lescott deal.
There was also the embarrassment of this years window with the sum total of around £1.5 Mil was spent on a couple of kids and a League One player. Signs aren't looking good. The Sky monies are anywhere from £40-60 million for those 2 years, and I know money was spent tying up contracts for a host of players, but where is the rest going to?
It's interesting that the rumours circulating about our financial trouble within the fansites, that a national newspaper prints a piece about Moyes should sell £50 Mil of talent and reinvest. I think this is the one thing that has kept us from insolvency the last 3-4 years is that we have value on the pitch. To value our playing squad is a difficult job, but I reckon going through the squad list we have a value from £80-100 million. That might be a bit generous but Moyes has a knack of getting a premium for our players. But selling the majority of the squad, where does that leave us?
Lastly, to put an end to my ramblings, does anyone remember the last time we heard from Kenwright? It's been surprisingly very quiet the last few months from him and even Elstone. Obviously the excuse is that he's working 24/7 for us, but normally he pipes up and bleats out some junk about signings/investors/whatever. It might be nice not having to listen to him make some pointless comments, but the silence from his camp, it doesn't help to quell the growing unrest/concern within the fanbase (or does he only speak when we are in the top half of the table?). It's also interesting that Moyes is using his usual media outputs as well to talk about the lack of money and investment he has, and the fear of standing still and not progressing, more digs at Bill & the Board.
The accounts ar NOT late, a company has NINE months from the end of it's financial year to file them, EFC's is 31st May, hence the deadline of 28th Feb. (I actually think they filed them in Feb 10 for the year to 31st May 09)
We didn't spend the Lescott money in 2009, we received the vast bulk of it upfront, as is normal for transfers carried out in this country, however, a large portion of the fees for both Heitinga and Bily are over a number of years, (this was actually reported at the time), as is the norm for transfers with European league teams, which actually makes our transfer history of recent years look worse.
How can we be on the verge of administration? Almost every transfer fee has been recouped through sales. We almost always sell someone before we buy.
"We will not put the future of the club in jeapardy" is quoted verbatim by Moyes at every window... We're no Leeds, Portsmouth or Liverpool model, so I just cant see it.
Do the maths... Despite all that, something just doesn't seem right at the moment. Hopefully a respectable takeover bid is imminent.
I started a rumour equally without evidence about being bought out by a billionaire this week, funny how only one took off. We've recently given longer more expensive contracts to two players, hardly the actions of a club going into administration. Also, oneof the clubs adviser's are going into administration. Mix this with the terrible state of the club, and our paranoia, and you get a good rumour.
Agree 100%. There is something about these times in the season when people decide to add 2 and 2 together and get 5, or just simply make up rumours.
1. We gave new contracts to a number of players in the summer and recently further renewed one of them (Coleman) to reflect his improved performances. One of the contracts included the reputed £75,000 per week to Mikel Arteta, easily a club record, at a time when we could've easily sold him for an eight figure fee given his performances at the end of last year.
2. We've not seen/heard anything of this is any reputable media outlet. When Leeds and Portsmouth started to hit the skids the media were all over it and fire sales of players began almost immediately.
3. The club turned down an offer from Spurs for Neville only three weeks ago. This was confirmed by Moyes and Redknapp in press conferences.
4. The sale of Pienaar simply reflects the fact that he was out of contract in six months time and wasn't going to sign another one. He also made it clear he wanted to leave to play CL football. We then got an offer that allowed us to make a profit on the fee we'd paid for him in the first place. Hard not to say yes to that deal.
5. Moyes has clearly decided that Yakubu is not in his plans and is ready to move him on. He probably hoped in the summer that he could get back to his best, hence knocking back the West Ham bid, but after watching him play at the start of the year he has now changed his mind. Letting him leave now, even on loan, does get him off the books, puts him in the shop window and allows Yakubu himself to play regular football. I would say much the same applies to Vaughan. Clearly, with Saha, Beckford, Anichebe and Cahill to come back, Moyes feels we have enough cover to get through to the end of the year, particularly as, if we lose on Saturday, we'll only have 15 games left.
6. Moyes has never been one to make a big splash in January. I remember him getting absolutely killed by supporters in the January window in 2006 when he flogged Marcus Bent and Per Krøldrup and didn't bring anyone in. So much so that he released a statement on the official site in which he defended his actions, or non-actions if you like.
To summarise, it's clear that we are not in the best of financial health, but I don't believe we're entering shit creek just yet. It's more like we've hit the limit on our credit card and cannot borrow any more. That means a sell-to-buy policy, but not quite yet a sell-to-survive one.
Of course, how much longer we can carry on into the future like this is another matter!
What do you mean... GOING into administration?
It was the first I'd heard and normally someone says "yeah, it's rubbish" or something.
Without wanting to bring Stevie-G-la, and the dark side into it, but I received a text about him in the summer with some disparaging remarks and the Liverpool Echo, the RS and various other sources including Dave Prentice were out straight away to quash and rubbish the rumours.
I would have expected someone to respond to something this big, but maybe they receive 10 like this a day. Just wanted to put it out there to rubbish it myself more than anything.
Everton chairman Bill Kenwright says there's money available for a major signing before the market closes.
Kenwright has revealed there remains a possibility of a further addition if the manager feels there is a player who would add something to his squad before the closure of the transfer window at the end of the month.
Kenwright told evertonfc.com: "We discuss it every day. Whether he wants new arrivals at the moment I'm not sure. There's always money available, it's not much I have to say this season.
"We've made a few transfers and if the manager found someone he really, really wanted that was within a price range ? or if he maybe did a bit of wheeler dealing.
"But I don't think that's top of his list at the moment. He's really pleased with the squad that he's got. I don't know a manager in the world who wouldn't like to make the right kind of additions, but he's pleased with what he has got and is not desperate to sign anyone."
I'd like to know (besides Arteta's wages) what else have we spent this AVAILABLE money on???
I think that there has been a forecast of season ticket sales done, taking into account the severe consequences of the recession, and we won't be able to meet the yearly repayments, based on a reduction in season ticket take-up.
We currently as a business appear to have no assets, apart from the players on the pitch, so we can't take out another loan, so we may be trying to make up the shortfall in the repayments by shipping out players who are earning a hefty wage (combined).
Mr Moyes alluded to this at the start of the window, by saying we couldn't even afford to pay the wage of a loan signing. The Birmingham postponement and the subsequent cash flow rumours may be a precursor to next season, when almost certainly season ticket sales will plummet. That may then trigger the sale of one of our star players, my opinion is it will be Fellaini, to Arsenal or Chelsea.
The cost cutting allows Mr Moyes to keep his best players for now, to try and avoid relegation and sneak a European place at best. Several employees over the past 18 months have had massive pay rises, Mr Moyes included; Arteta, Cahill, Heitinga... initially breaking the wage ceiling when he signed. We can't afford to pay these salaries, we don't have the business acumen to absorb these costs.
Everyone knows we are potless so, IMO, Kenwright was trying to take the heat off himself so fans would blame Moyes instead for our lack of transfer activity.
The man continues to be a disgrace.
I don't understand your maths there mate: we take in a minimum £7.5M per year on season ticket sales contributing to a total gate income of around £22M per year.
I have to say that when I read a very similar post on NSNO last night I felt like I smelt a rat too. As moderator you obviously get dubious posts that you either publish on face value or delete based on any doubts you may have but surely you have to allow other users to voice similar concerns on such matters. After all isn't this a place for Evertonians' to voice their opinions isn't it?
You big bully.
Administration is crazy talk, I actually wonder whether one of these days we're going to have broken the shackles of our debts accumulated during the nineties and be on one of the the soundest financial footings in the Premier League??
You have to remember Fellaini is being paid off £3m a season so that's transfer budget immediately accounted for... to be honest, based on the fact that at the end he will still be ours, even if he doesn't sign a contract due to his age, and also that he is that rare commodity: a big fekker that can play, I think he's worth that for the role he's played in the last few seasons.
Spurs were the team that in the early nineties were making big news because they had a shocking £16 million of debt hanging over them... they got over that and now they're financially sound; that could be us as well.
If we go down, ever, then it will be the worst thing to ever happen to the club; that will be all our traditions and things to be proud of straight out of the window. There's no way that will ever happen if we keep behind Moyes though. I am one to wonder about him often enough, there are some decisions that you have to look at closer to understand... but he is a young manager, even Alex Ferguson didn't do a lot in his first years at Man U...
Let's face it, we've all given up on this season, why keep the expensively waged flair players if they're going to be sold in the summer anyway? Let's save that money, there's no way we're going to go down, and give our youth a chance instead... that's how Man U did it, with the youth. I wouldn't be surprised at all if all the transfer money we had was spent on 17-year-olds again... and, on the day Luke Garbutt got his call to the next level of the England setup, that sounds like good investment to me.
It all goes back to the terms of the loans that EFC has already signed up to with major banks against future revenue streams. There is a shortfall in the projections for servicing these debts & costs are being cut (players loaned) & some of our only remaining assets (players)
sold to raise cash.
If EFC cannot convince the bankers that they can meet their existing obligations (which are already crippling us) then they risk the debts being called in & administration would beckon.
Perhaps our chairman has assured them that the money for these debts is "Ring-fenced" or any due payments "will be in the account in the morning" etc ? who knows? We as mere 'cash cow' fans don't need to be told.
If they are as willing as some of the 'apologistas' on this site to take him at his word, then I'm sure we're fine. If they are not, or if at any time our 'cash flow' difficulties impact on the Inland Revenue collection of due tax ... then a Portsmouth style situation will ensue.
Personally, I don't think we are there yet but we are getting there more quickly with each passing day. Unless we are bought (are we even for sale?) then next summer some bigger assets will go (Fellaini, Rodwell & Johnny H at the very least) and I'd be very surprised if by that point Moyes doesn't throw in the towel.
That said, my ma' always used to say ...."It's always darkest before dawn", so this impending mess may force Kenwright's hand & precipitate a change for the better.
The club has barely spent over the last 8 years, yet our debt levels are dire. Why?
My understanding was that Mr Moyes wanted to keep Pienaar and let his contract run out, why lose your best player for buttons when your are in a precarious position? But it looks like his hand was forced; now, if we don't bring a replacement in, then we know that money issues have taken preference over playing issues.
Not really what you want to hear as a supporter, who provides the club with hard earned cash for a season ticket every year, so this scenario will affect next season's renewals even more, with fans becoming disenchanted, less people who will pay at the gate, people cherry picking games... it's a downward spiral. The Great Crash of 1929 was caused by less!
Jesus, I love Goodison but you can't polish a turd.
I take your point mate but if our loan repayments are £2.5M as you state, then that surely is the least of our problems? I would expect the club would have to budget on a worst case scenario basis, ie: finish bottom of the league and out of the cups in the first round.
Now if you consider each place in the league is worth £775k, anything above finishing in the bottom four would easily cover the £2.5M loan repayment?
Larry Boner 81# ... I think you have got to the nub of it here Larry, when you refer to the "downward spiral". We are now facing a classic example of what economists call a "spiral of decline". We need to cut costs & raise capital which can only be achieved by loaning & selling players (our only unmortgaged assets as who knows WTF is going on with Bellefield).
However, our income is falling all the time & selling players only exacerbates this as poorer performances means: lower gates, less season ticket renewals, lower PL payments (based on league position), no chance of Euro football, less merchandise sales, etc, etc. This in turn means that, despite the sale of your assets, the shortfall is still not met.... so you have to sell more players just to survive, meet loan obligations & maintain working capital. The downward spiral gets faster and you never bridge the gap, while your saleable assets are finite so the end result is inevitable.
The problem we face is that we will end up so weak that we will be relegated, way before we reach the theoretical point of zero assets. If relegation happens, then there is no way we can meet the terms of our loans & we'll end up Lord knows where!
Despite all this, people still come on here & defend Kenwright. How bad do things have to get before the penny drops & Evertonians do something about it? I'm sick of hearing that protests are what the 'other lot' do & that it's not the Everton Way.... What is the Everton way? Drifting quietly into oblivion for a bungling chairman just because he is supposedly 'one of us'? I've never met or heard on anyone who actually ever saw him in the Boys Pen!
We all need to start working 24/7 to spread the word to fellow fans & the wider media just what a danger this clown is to the future of our once great club ? KENWRIGHT OUT!
Right... rant over, lunchbreak over & back to work, before I'm out on my arse.
But, we are still in the same position no matter whatever way it is explained.
On saying that our wonderfull chairman can't even afford th bloody glitter.
Marc Williams - brilliant article.
BTW, someone posted earlier that Manchester United play in Salford; they don?t and never have.
just wondering where you thought we'd be now 9 years ago, whether we'd have any talent let alone English?
I'd have predicted we'd be in alot of debt and around about where we are in the table if we were lucky... I don't reckon we're in too much debt and we're where we are in the table, but expecting to be higher
It annoys me that people on here take everything literally, do you not think if you turn up in Lisbon to sign a player saying "oh look we've got loads of money" it's going to cost us more?
Most things that come out of the club are not words for the fans, they're for the enemy, the other 97% of the football world... of course they're not going to come and say the club are financially ok because that would be back page headlines as its the one bit of info that Everton fans have been waiting to hear for 15 years
I can't believe Kenwright would still be in position if the Manager didn't believe the financial strategy was working in the best interests of the longterm future of the club
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 26/01/2011 at 13:01:33
Report abuse