The Mail Bag
It's all a bit gay...e
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Does anybody no where this supposedly talented Magaye Gueye is? I've heard that him and Moyes are not getting on and he doesnt seem to be on the bench anymore so i was just wondering if anyone knew what was going on... as I thought he was supposed to be Moyesie's "secret weapon".
Benji Learman, Posted 22/02/2011 at 12:49:44
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Maybe Moyes having watched him in training has decided he is not up to the required level and that he made a big mistake thinking he would be our secret weapon.
Moyes has previously said that he's currently bringing in young players in the hope that they will develop into the Everton team of the future.
Luke Garbutt, Shkodran Mustafi, Magaye Gueye, Joao Pedro Pereira Silva, Femi Orenuga and Apostolos Vellios have all been brought to Everton recently in the hopes they will develop.
The good news is that, if they don't make the grade, they cost peanuts and Everton lose very little... but, if they can develop, then Everton just may have some very good players for next to nothing.
Considering Moyes has no money for established players, this policy of bringing in youngsters is quite a good idea.
Give Magaye Gueye and company a chance to develop. They need time.
Luke Garbutt, Shkodran Mustafi, Magaye Gueye, Joao Pedro Pereira Silva, Femi Orenuga and Apostolos Vellios have all been brought to Everton recently in the hopes they will develop.
The good news is that, if they don't make the grade, they cost peanuts and Everton lose very little... but, if they can develop, then Everton just may have some very good players for next to nothing.
Considering Moyes has no money for established players, this policy of bringing in youngsters is quite a good idea.
Give Magaye Gueye and company a chance to develop. They need time.
Our reserves containing Hibbert, Mucha, Duffy etc etc are getting stuffed at home by Blackburn Rovers... it's four-nil at the moment and that's why we have no youngsters pushing for first team places... Incidentally, Magaye Gueye is not in the side!!
Trevor Lynes
What do you mean we have no youngsters pushing for a first team place?
Jack Rodwell has played over 50 times for Everton.
Seamus Coleman is only 22 and before this season had no top level experience but he's now a regular starter.
Shane Duffy has made his debut and is a regular on the bench.
Victor Anichebe is still only 22 but has played nearly 100 times for Everton.
Jose Baxter is only 19 and he's played 12 times for Everton and is a regular on the bench.
And 20-year-old Magaye Gueye has made 3 appearances so far during his debut season.
So we have Rodwell, Anichebe and Coleman as regulars, Baxter knocking on the door and Duffy and Gueye edging closer.
I wouldn't say we have no youngsters pushing for first team places at all.
What do you mean we have no youngsters pushing for a first team place?
Jack Rodwell has played over 50 times for Everton.
Seamus Coleman is only 22 and before this season had no top level experience but he's now a regular starter.
Shane Duffy has made his debut and is a regular on the bench.
Victor Anichebe is still only 22 but has played nearly 100 times for Everton.
Jose Baxter is only 19 and he's played 12 times for Everton and is a regular on the bench.
And 20-year-old Magaye Gueye has made 3 appearances so far during his debut season.
So we have Rodwell, Anichebe and Coleman as regulars, Baxter knocking on the door and Duffy and Gueye edging closer.
I wouldn't say we have no youngsters pushing for first team places at all.
Dick, you say..
"Give Magaye Gueye and company a chance to develop. They need time".
Well I kind of agree, though I can't help wondering if (financially and... every other way) we can we actually afford to have players who don't play or who spend all their time on loan.
I have no idea if Moyes has narks with players and consequently doesn't play them, so I'm not going to slag him for that. (However, if there IS any truth to this, he needs to grow the fuck up.)
"Give Magaye Gueye and company a chance to develop. They need time".
Well I kind of agree, though I can't help wondering if (financially and... every other way) we can we actually afford to have players who don't play or who spend all their time on loan.
I have no idea if Moyes has narks with players and consequently doesn't play them, so I'm not going to slag him for that. (However, if there IS any truth to this, he needs to grow the fuck up.)
If he had a storming game against our rivals then inexplicably disappeared from the scene, then I would be bemused. But that's Yakubu and this is an unknown. Stop obsessing about one comment; it was obviously just a mistake.
Shhhhhhhh ? it's a secret, havent you heard?! We don't want the rest of the league to know that we are truly fucking potless and can't afford more than Division 3 strikers and 2nd rate French (starlets).
You'd have thought that given what a diabolical season we've been having, if Gueye really did have any hidden talents ? he'd be playing!
I don't get the fuss about not playing Guaye. He was bought as a prospect nothing more. Maybe he'll make it maybe he won't, time will tell. The "secret weapon" comment Guaye gave to the press was, I'd guess, something Moyes said to the lad as a boost and wasn't intended for public consumption.
I wouldn't mind betting that out of all these young foreign players we've brought in we'll ultimately make an overall profit on them. Then if one or two turn out to be high class then what a bonus. Wenger's been working that way for years.
I wouldn't mind betting that out of all these young foreign players we've brought in we'll ultimately make an overall profit on them. Then if one or two turn out to be high class then what a bonus. Wenger's been working that way for years.
It could well be that we sign these young players for nothing, pay them little wages, and then sell a big earner to balance the books. The only difference is that these young players are sitting on the bench each week and the subs slowly become first team players. Makes sense if we have no cash.
I think his profile has been heightened because he was about the only player we paid money for in the summer. However, in a busy transfer window, we wouldn't really have noticed him and he would be developing steadily in the reserves or academy until he was ready to be part of the regular first team set up.
If he is good, he will get his chance.
Dick #5... I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about the present reserves which include Duffy, Garbutt, Baxter etc etc. They have a poor record so far this season and lost TODAY 5-1 to Blackburn Rovers at home. I'm not talking about Rodwell or Coleman ? it's the lack of NEW youngsters coming through.
Let's face it... if any of our present first team stars want to play, they can, as they have little or no competition.
Trevor #11
Rodwell and Coleman are the past? I would argue they are current youngster finding their feet in the first team.
And Duffy, Baxter, Gueye are regulary on the bench. So I would argue they are coming through and are currently close to the first team.
Big things are also expected of Luke Garbutt and Ross Barkley but they are both 17 so we will have to wait until next season to see them start coming through.
Rodwell and Coleman are the past? I would argue they are current youngster finding their feet in the first team.
And Duffy, Baxter, Gueye are regulary on the bench. So I would argue they are coming through and are currently close to the first team.
Big things are also expected of Luke Garbutt and Ross Barkley but they are both 17 so we will have to wait until next season to see them start coming through.
Howard #9, the trouble is we get shut of these kids and failures for fuck all, how much did we get for any of them and what did we pay including wages? Maybe not a lot by EPL standards but we couldn't afford a loan this January so, given that even a two-bob player from some obscure 3rd Division is costing us our entire pot of spenders.
My argument is that we have some very promising youngsters in the wings who are developing and should be useful players.
Luke Garbutt and Ross Barkley are the most exciting prospects. But then you have Jose Baxter, Femi Orenuga, Jake Bidwell, Shane Duffy, Shkodran Mustafi, Magaye Gueye, Joao Pedro Pereira Silva, James Wallace and Hallam Hope.
And that's without including on-loan youngster Eric Dier, who may sign permanently and is rated very highly, and of course teenager Jack Rodwell, who is good enough to play for Man Utd or Real Madrid... apparently.
Now of course I'm not suggesting all of them will make it as first team regulars but, even if just four or five of them do, then Everton will be a healthy position. I fully expect at least some of them to make the grade.
I'm totally not worried about the young players breaking through. The future looks kinda rosy in that respect.
What worries me is the players currently in the team who just aren't good enough. Moyes needs a massive clear out in the summer: Johnny Heitinga, Diniyar Bilyaletdinov, Leon Osman, Tony Hibbert, Joseph Yobo, James Vaughan, Victor Anichebe, Kieran Agard, Jan Mucha, Iain Turner, Jermaine Beckford and Yakubu.
I say sell all them to raise money.
Luke Garbutt and Ross Barkley are the most exciting prospects. But then you have Jose Baxter, Femi Orenuga, Jake Bidwell, Shane Duffy, Shkodran Mustafi, Magaye Gueye, Joao Pedro Pereira Silva, James Wallace and Hallam Hope.
And that's without including on-loan youngster Eric Dier, who may sign permanently and is rated very highly, and of course teenager Jack Rodwell, who is good enough to play for Man Utd or Real Madrid... apparently.
Now of course I'm not suggesting all of them will make it as first team regulars but, even if just four or five of them do, then Everton will be a healthy position. I fully expect at least some of them to make the grade.
I'm totally not worried about the young players breaking through. The future looks kinda rosy in that respect.
What worries me is the players currently in the team who just aren't good enough. Moyes needs a massive clear out in the summer: Johnny Heitinga, Diniyar Bilyaletdinov, Leon Osman, Tony Hibbert, Joseph Yobo, James Vaughan, Victor Anichebe, Kieran Agard, Jan Mucha, Iain Turner, Jermaine Beckford and Yakubu.
I say sell all them to raise money.
Well, the best part of £1M was spent on Gueye and that is not peanuts.
Moyes does have an eye for picking up bargains from the lower leagues and deserves credit for it. However, he is not a great developer of youth nor does the scouting at our club seem up to scratch. I can't think of a single success story when it comes to purchasing young players apart from Coleman who Moyes held back until he had absolutely no choice but to play him.
I don't hold out much hope for the current crop. I doubt Duffy will ever get a chance and Baxter looks poor and has no pace at all. Anichebe is a joke and can barely be considered a player at all.
Rodwell on the other hand wasn't purchased at all but looks to be the pick of the bunch. Can't say I have been impressed with him either though. Does anyone even know his position? Switches off too much to be a CB and is a terrible marker. Hopeless in front of goal so doesn't strike me as an attacking midfielder. I can't see a £20M player at all.
Moyes does have an eye for picking up bargains from the lower leagues and deserves credit for it. However, he is not a great developer of youth nor does the scouting at our club seem up to scratch. I can't think of a single success story when it comes to purchasing young players apart from Coleman who Moyes held back until he had absolutely no choice but to play him.
I don't hold out much hope for the current crop. I doubt Duffy will ever get a chance and Baxter looks poor and has no pace at all. Anichebe is a joke and can barely be considered a player at all.
Rodwell on the other hand wasn't purchased at all but looks to be the pick of the bunch. Can't say I have been impressed with him either though. Does anyone even know his position? Switches off too much to be a CB and is a terrible marker. Hopeless in front of goal so doesn't strike me as an attacking midfielder. I can't see a £20M player at all.
James Stewart, Moyes is not a great developer of youth??? That actually made me laugh. The guy that brought Wayne Rooney and Jack Rodwell through the ranks is not a good developer of youth??? Think about it.
That's without talking about Leon Osman and Tony Hibbert, they were youth products under Moyes too and, although they have their critics, how many hundreds of games have they played?
Vaughan and Anichebe too have come through the ranks under Moyes and although not good enough for the Premier League they will undoubtedly have long careers in the Premier League/Championship.
You can't think of a single success story when it comes to purchasing youngsters except Coleman? Why except Coleman? Coleman is a success story. Nobody had heard of him before Moyes took a chance. You cant just rule him out. Major success story.
Then you have Dan Gosling. OK he shat on us because he's a greedy git but Moyes purchased him as a youngster and he will be a decent Premier League player and possible England International some day. Gosling would have been a success story if he wasn't so greedy.
Can we call Baines and Fellaini purchased youngsters? Both were only 22 when Moyes brought them to Everton.
I fully expect Luke Garbutt to play for the first team one day and Shkodran Mustafi and Femi Orenuga are also purchased youngsters who have a shot.
But seriously, just for Rooney and Rodwell alone, Moyes deserves credit as a great developer of youth.
Man Utd fans should be thanking Moyes for the next decade as Rooney and Rodwell become legends for their club.
That's without talking about Leon Osman and Tony Hibbert, they were youth products under Moyes too and, although they have their critics, how many hundreds of games have they played?
Vaughan and Anichebe too have come through the ranks under Moyes and although not good enough for the Premier League they will undoubtedly have long careers in the Premier League/Championship.
You can't think of a single success story when it comes to purchasing youngsters except Coleman? Why except Coleman? Coleman is a success story. Nobody had heard of him before Moyes took a chance. You cant just rule him out. Major success story.
Then you have Dan Gosling. OK he shat on us because he's a greedy git but Moyes purchased him as a youngster and he will be a decent Premier League player and possible England International some day. Gosling would have been a success story if he wasn't so greedy.
Can we call Baines and Fellaini purchased youngsters? Both were only 22 when Moyes brought them to Everton.
I fully expect Luke Garbutt to play for the first team one day and Shkodran Mustafi and Femi Orenuga are also purchased youngsters who have a shot.
But seriously, just for Rooney and Rodwell alone, Moyes deserves credit as a great developer of youth.
Man Utd fans should be thanking Moyes for the next decade as Rooney and Rodwell become legends for their club.
So Anichebe has played nearly 100 times for Everton and rarely delivers, but gets chance after chance... and yet players like Gueye, French Under-21 international don't even get a chance! There is certainly a place in the squad for this lad, he'd fill a hole on the left when we need fresh legs and has got a decent left foot on him.
Anthony Millington
I saw Gueye play nearly a full game against Norwich during preseason and he was bloody dire. Anichebe is pretty awful too but maybe he's less awful then Gueye at present.
Moyes sees them in training everyday and I doubt Moyes would pick a weaker side just for the sake of it.
Maybe Gueye will develop in time.
I saw Gueye play nearly a full game against Norwich during preseason and he was bloody dire. Anichebe is pretty awful too but maybe he's less awful then Gueye at present.
Moyes sees them in training everyday and I doubt Moyes would pick a weaker side just for the sake of it.
Maybe Gueye will develop in time.
We generally pay peanuts for these type of players, and I believe that Moyes and the coaching squad are fully aware that the majority will not make it.
They are also aware that only one or two need to make it every few years for this policy to pay for itself. The latest being Seamus, a player I would value at roughly the fees paid for all the above named in the article.
If we go one better and end up with a really great player, we are quids in.
They are also aware that only one or two need to make it every few years for this policy to pay for itself. The latest being Seamus, a player I would value at roughly the fees paid for all the above named in the article.
If we go one better and end up with a really great player, we are quids in.
Dick, three minor points:
1. He doesn't develop the youth players as he isn't and never has been the youth coach, he gets the nod from the youth coach when players may be suitable but he doesn't coach them.
2. He does get to see the players during training at Finch Farm but has for years tried to use Osman as a winger when he's a centre midfielder, you could say the same about Heitinga and add that Bily isn't a winger either, he must have seen Coleman during training too but took three months plus after his MotM performance against Spurs as an improvised winger to try him there and even then it was more down to injuries than what he saw in training.
3. Care to explain how Anichebe gets picked over Beckford?
1. He doesn't develop the youth players as he isn't and never has been the youth coach, he gets the nod from the youth coach when players may be suitable but he doesn't coach them.
2. He does get to see the players during training at Finch Farm but has for years tried to use Osman as a winger when he's a centre midfielder, you could say the same about Heitinga and add that Bily isn't a winger either, he must have seen Coleman during training too but took three months plus after his MotM performance against Spurs as an improvised winger to try him there and even then it was more down to injuries than what he saw in training.
3. Care to explain how Anichebe gets picked over Beckford?
Correct me if I'm wrong but, when he came on, and what I saw pre-season, I thought Gueye has played really well. He had great pace when he came on the last time and he can cross a ball as good as anyone in the team.
Now Pienaar has defected is he any worse wide left than Oz or Anihesky?
Don't think so. I can't believe Moyes has not had Gueye and Bainsey rehearsing the ultimate double act on the left.
Moyes ? whatever it is, sort it and stop being so bloody lazy. Either that or sell some fucker and make an offer for Matty Etherington.
Now Pienaar has defected is he any worse wide left than Oz or Anihesky?
Don't think so. I can't believe Moyes has not had Gueye and Bainsey rehearsing the ultimate double act on the left.
Moyes ? whatever it is, sort it and stop being so bloody lazy. Either that or sell some fucker and make an offer for Matty Etherington.
I think I can settle this argument. My understanding is that Gueye has a slight muscle pull but will probably be back in time for Sunderland or Reading. Hope that helps.
Yakubu didn't get dropped after having a blinder against the RS!!! He played the following game against Stoke and did ok, but in the following game against Blackpool, which he also started, he was absolutely appalling. He was subbed in this game and then dropped, rightly so in my opinion.
Yakubu didn't get dropped because of his form in a couple of games.
Since his return from injury nearly a year and a half ago, Yakubu has made 55 appearances and scored just 8 goals.
That's why Moyes has lost patience with Yakubu. Let's be honest, he's not the same since the injury. Either the injury has robbed him of ability or maybe he just can't be bothered to try anymore.
Look back over his career. Yakubu is always at his best in the first season after a transfer. After that first season, he slowly loses interest.
True to form, he joins Leicester and remembers how to score. It won't last.
I just hope we get a decent fee for him.
Since his return from injury nearly a year and a half ago, Yakubu has made 55 appearances and scored just 8 goals.
That's why Moyes has lost patience with Yakubu. Let's be honest, he's not the same since the injury. Either the injury has robbed him of ability or maybe he just can't be bothered to try anymore.
Look back over his career. Yakubu is always at his best in the first season after a transfer. After that first season, he slowly loses interest.
True to form, he joins Leicester and remembers how to score. It won't last.
I just hope we get a decent fee for him.
Dick... I'm afraid you are hopelessly deluded. We had both Baines and Jags as youngsters and both were released... and later, we paid a lot of money to get them back, AFTER they had been developed elsewhere.
We have a history of dumping our academy players season after season, and after seeing the reserves and the terrible results of both them and our younger teams, I really DO NOT see any Rooneys or Rodwells amongst them. Blackburn took us to the cleaners today at home.
That's right, we dump academy players season after season and how many of those hundreds of players go onto anything other then a lower league career? And they are the lucky ones because most end up out of the game.
Most teams are lucky to get one or two first team players from their Academies. Everton have had plenty over the years including Osman, Hibbert, Anichebe, Vaughan, Baxter, Ball and Jeffers.
But, most importantly in recent years, Everton have developed not one but possibly two World Class players in Rooney and Rodwell. OK, they may well end up playing together at Man Utd but the combined transfer fee of £50 million is a good bit of business for the Academy.
And by all accounts, Ross Barkley is the next big thing. So we could soon be talking about a hatrick of Rooney, Rodwell and Barkley.
One World Class player every 3 or 4 years is pretty good going in my book.
Most teams are lucky to get one or two first team players from their Academies. Everton have had plenty over the years including Osman, Hibbert, Anichebe, Vaughan, Baxter, Ball and Jeffers.
But, most importantly in recent years, Everton have developed not one but possibly two World Class players in Rooney and Rodwell. OK, they may well end up playing together at Man Utd but the combined transfer fee of £50 million is a good bit of business for the Academy.
And by all accounts, Ross Barkley is the next big thing. So we could soon be talking about a hatrick of Rooney, Rodwell and Barkley.
One World Class player every 3 or 4 years is pretty good going in my book.
Dick,
You mention Arsenal and Wenger as the prototype team for youth development. I agree with you 100%.< I think the thing that grates most people is Wenger actually plays his youngsters and brings them slowly into the first team.
Moyes does have a track record of playing his ineffectual favorites before giving some of the younger players a run out, unless forced to do so. Gueye is a prime example.
Therein lies the rub.
You mention Arsenal and Wenger as the prototype team for youth development. I agree with you 100%.< I think the thing that grates most people is Wenger actually plays his youngsters and brings them slowly into the first team.
Moyes does have a track record of playing his ineffectual favorites before giving some of the younger players a run out, unless forced to do so. Gueye is a prime example.
Therein lies the rub.
Apologies Dick, Howard Don mentioned Arsenal, not you.
Still a team to emulate their youth development and approach...
Still a team to emulate their youth development and approach...
Bang on,Dick Anderson.
Gavin Ramakin ? usual nonsense. I don't know you but something tells me you own a chip shop.
Moyes has got his faults but to say he doesn't bring players careers on, youth or not, is complete bollocks.
I'd take a dividend from his work in the transfer market.
Gavin Ramakin ? usual nonsense. I don't know you but something tells me you own a chip shop.
Moyes has got his faults but to say he doesn't bring players careers on, youth or not, is complete bollocks.
I'd take a dividend from his work in the transfer market.
Mike Grub (seeing as you can't be arsed spelling my name) ? I am a Director of my own company and consult to enterprise size businesses, over the last 22 years that has including but not exhaustively food production, retail, banking onshore and offshore, the Ministry of Defence and the DVLA...
I am currently consulting at the largest bank in the country. Yes you don't know me and, given you think I run a chip shop, I'd say you spend the day walking on your hands talking out of your arse.
Sorry Dick that's bull.
Rooney would have made it under anyone. And there is no way I would describe Rodwell as a world class player. He barely makes our first team which, let's face it, isn't exactly filled with world class players.
Coleman I would have given you but for Moyes's blind stubbornness in holding him back after his exploits against Spurs.
If Hibbert and Osman are the benchmark for making the grade then we won't get far! Committed yes but average at their very best.
I personally think our scouting and purchasing of young talent is poor.
Rooney would have made it under anyone. And there is no way I would describe Rodwell as a world class player. He barely makes our first team which, let's face it, isn't exactly filled with world class players.
Coleman I would have given you but for Moyes's blind stubbornness in holding him back after his exploits against Spurs.
If Hibbert and Osman are the benchmark for making the grade then we won't get far! Committed yes but average at their very best.
I personally think our scouting and purchasing of young talent is poor.
Sorry Gavin, had to laugh at that retort, so funny!
The lad looked quite an asset when he played pre-season over here, which is probably why his continued absence from the squad is so confusing. Especially given that, since Pienaar left, we have no attacking wide players on either side of the park.
As I have said before, I don't consider Coleman a winger, he can't cross on his right foot, or shoot on his right foot to save his life. He DOES create havoc with his direct runs from time to time but he is make-do at best. Once Neville has hung up his boots, Coleman will drop into his best position at right back.
I saw Gueye at Brentford away and he was shite...
Get Tal on. Or Ibrahim Said. Sack Moyes. Kenwright out. Tea Lady in. No Out.
Could it be that the lad is injured perhaps? He's come from French football to the English league and he's a young lad living in a completely different culture than his own. It's natural that he would need some time to bed in as the French league is a much slower, less physical style of play, especially as he was playing in division 2 at the time. The modern football fan has no patience.
Were you the ones who wrote Kendall out on his garage doors in '83?
Dick, Gosling a possible future England international?
Never in a million years.
Never in a million years.
David Thomas - Maybe he isn't a defender lol
Dick Anderson - He was shoved into the Europa side out of necessity when we had a severely depleted squad. The only reason he had to give him chance.
The problem is, Moyes is well known not to give youngsters a try unless he is left with no choice, instead sticking with his favourites ? and right there is the problem.
The problem is, Moyes is well known not to give youngsters a try unless he is left with no choice, instead sticking with his favourites ? and right there is the problem.
Dick Anderson - Thank god your not our manager!
We shouldn't need to get shut of Beckford. The lad isn't delivering because most of the time he plays he is being forced to play up top on his own. Give him Saha and they both play well together. So far 4 goals, and not enough first team action.
We shouldn't need to get shut of Beckford. The lad isn't delivering because most of the time he plays he is being forced to play up top on his own. Give him Saha and they both play well together. So far 4 goals, and not enough first team action.
It would be morally sapping to just about anyone, to be constantly thrown on the bench week after week ? particularly seeing the likes of the one of the worst Premier League players by far in Anichebe picked over you.
It's so stupid how people think Moyes only plays young players because he has to.
There's like a massive conspiracy over Coleman. Moyes was forced into playing him. Whatever.
It's impossible that maybe just maybe the loan spell at Blackpool and easing him into the Everton team was the right way of doing it.
Moyes discovers Coleman, sends him out on loan to help develop him, eases him into the Everton side before giving him a regular place and Everton now have a very useful player for next to nothing.
But let's not give Moyes any credit. Let's talk about how Moyes was forced into playing Coleman. Because Moyes hates using good players and wants Everton to struggle.
Tell you what, let's start up a campaign now. Let's give Moyes no credit for spotting Apostolos Vellios. Let's give Moyes no time to let Apostolos Vellios develop or adjust.
Lets just force Moyes into playing Apostolos Vellios right now.
Cause after all we fans know best.
There's like a massive conspiracy over Coleman. Moyes was forced into playing him. Whatever.
It's impossible that maybe just maybe the loan spell at Blackpool and easing him into the Everton team was the right way of doing it.
Moyes discovers Coleman, sends him out on loan to help develop him, eases him into the Everton side before giving him a regular place and Everton now have a very useful player for next to nothing.
But let's not give Moyes any credit. Let's talk about how Moyes was forced into playing Coleman. Because Moyes hates using good players and wants Everton to struggle.
Tell you what, let's start up a campaign now. Let's give Moyes no credit for spotting Apostolos Vellios. Let's give Moyes no time to let Apostolos Vellios develop or adjust.
Lets just force Moyes into playing Apostolos Vellios right now.
Cause after all we fans know best.
What's wrong with running a chippy!?
Wish I ran the Supper Bar - I'd have their curry and chips EVERY day of my life.
And a can of lemmo!
Wish I ran the Supper Bar - I'd have their curry and chips EVERY day of my life.
And a can of lemmo!
Gavin, Don't fall into the trap mate, when so-called fans come on here and insult fellow fans. Just remember that maybe they know it all? Or think they do?
Chip shop owner? That's the most bizarre put down I have ever heard!!
But the whole topic is a bit strange. I don't know how anybody can say 'give him a go', when they don't have any visibility of how well he trains, and whether or not he is improving. I can't see Moyes not picking someone, if he truly believes they will add more to the team. It's going a bit too far to suggest Moyes is deliberately trying to ruin Everton by playing certain players, when there are better players on the bench.
If he works out, then great. Another gem discovered. If he doesn't, we haven't lost a lot. The fact we payed £9 million for Bily still breaks my heart. The fact he is not a winger doesn't come into the argument. It's his basic footballing skills that annoy me. I don't see how playing him in the centre will suddenly see him become quicker, and not just physically but with his mind. You have much less time and space in the centre of the park.
But the whole topic is a bit strange. I don't know how anybody can say 'give him a go', when they don't have any visibility of how well he trains, and whether or not he is improving. I can't see Moyes not picking someone, if he truly believes they will add more to the team. It's going a bit too far to suggest Moyes is deliberately trying to ruin Everton by playing certain players, when there are better players on the bench.
If he works out, then great. Another gem discovered. If he doesn't, we haven't lost a lot. The fact we payed £9 million for Bily still breaks my heart. The fact he is not a winger doesn't come into the argument. It's his basic footballing skills that annoy me. I don't see how playing him in the centre will suddenly see him become quicker, and not just physically but with his mind. You have much less time and space in the centre of the park.
Mike Green
Too snide - too often, should be stopped.
Too snide - too often, should be stopped.
I dont think the chip shop owner comment was saying only someone dumb could run a chip shop.
I think it was a sarcastic way of saying you have a chip on your shoulder.
I think it was a sarcastic way of saying you have a chip on your shoulder.
It's obvious but I can't resist saying it :- I figured he thought you were a chip shop owner because all chip shops insist on a bit of Colemans (mustard).
I've only just come back in, but I'll get my coat.... :)
I've only just come back in, but I'll get my coat.... :)
Tommy, that 'gag' would have been cack even if we had a player called Seamus Vinegar.
As it is, I have NEVER seen mustard in a chippy.
Dick, I think you're confusing sarcastic with staggeringly convoluted.
As it is, I have NEVER seen mustard in a chippy.
Dick, I think you're confusing sarcastic with staggeringly convoluted.
Sorry, I should have thought about it more, I never look properly when I'm in the chipper, when it comes to their sauce my eyes just immediately lock on to the Tomato Krøldrup.... ;)
Seriously though, regardless of whether Moyes does or doesn't bring through youngsters correctly, I do think he is hesitant when it comes to youth defenders.
If you exclude Hibbert, Cup and friendly matches, how many has he actually played? He even puts Hibbert in at CB (his perfect position if he wore some Elton John platforms for height) rather than play them.
The fact that he plays Rodwell and Coleman in midfield seems to be having a knock-on effect to guys like Gueye.
Seriously though, regardless of whether Moyes does or doesn't bring through youngsters correctly, I do think he is hesitant when it comes to youth defenders.
If you exclude Hibbert, Cup and friendly matches, how many has he actually played? He even puts Hibbert in at CB (his perfect position if he wore some Elton John platforms for height) rather than play them.
The fact that he plays Rodwell and Coleman in midfield seems to be having a knock-on effect to guys like Gueye.
I think its tough because young players make mistakes and those mistakes are particularly highlighted if your a defender.
Moyes does give young defenders a chance. Hibbert was successfully brought in from the youth Academy and has been a regular over the years.
I also remember highly regarded Peter Clarke being given quite a few opportunites during Moyes early days as manager.
Unfortunately Clarke played a full game in probably the worst game possible when Shrewsbury knocked us out of the FA Cup. Thats probably the worst game of the Moyes managerial career. He got another chance but I seem to remember him being at fault for the goals in another loss against Blackburn. Moyes gave up on him shortly after that.
Mark Hughes is another young defender who many tipped for the first team. He got a few appearances out of Moyes but never looked like establishing himself.
You can argue that Moyes is reluctant to play young defenders but you could also argue that the Academy just hasn't produced any defenders good enough to make the grade.
After all Clarke and Hughes are probably the most highly tipped young defenders to come out of the Everton Academy in the Moyes era and both of them have gone onto pretty unremarkable careers in the lower leagues.
That says to me that they weren't good enough for the top level. And Moyes always knew that and didn't give them many chances for that reason.
Is Duffy not getting a chance because Moyes doesn't trust young defenders?
Or is it more likely that Duffy just isn't good enough and will soon join Clarke and Hughes in the lower leagues?
Moyes does give young defenders a chance. Hibbert was successfully brought in from the youth Academy and has been a regular over the years.
I also remember highly regarded Peter Clarke being given quite a few opportunites during Moyes early days as manager.
Unfortunately Clarke played a full game in probably the worst game possible when Shrewsbury knocked us out of the FA Cup. Thats probably the worst game of the Moyes managerial career. He got another chance but I seem to remember him being at fault for the goals in another loss against Blackburn. Moyes gave up on him shortly after that.
Mark Hughes is another young defender who many tipped for the first team. He got a few appearances out of Moyes but never looked like establishing himself.
You can argue that Moyes is reluctant to play young defenders but you could also argue that the Academy just hasn't produced any defenders good enough to make the grade.
After all Clarke and Hughes are probably the most highly tipped young defenders to come out of the Everton Academy in the Moyes era and both of them have gone onto pretty unremarkable careers in the lower leagues.
That says to me that they weren't good enough for the top level. And Moyes always knew that and didn't give them many chances for that reason.
Is Duffy not getting a chance because Moyes doesn't trust young defenders?
Or is it more likely that Duffy just isn't good enough and will soon join Clarke and Hughes in the lower leagues?
Hughes, Schumacher and Paddy Boyle were the only three that I thought he might have maybe given a league start to, I'd forgotten about Peter Clarke.
I think it's a bit unfair to say that just because they've never made it since leaving us, that they never would have made it. Especially when it comes to defenders because they need to rely more on their mental abilities ? which would presumably lead to a confidence knock when dumped ? of focus, reading and anticipation rather than their feet. (For example, Would Jags or Baines have made it if they hadn't had their spirits lifted and minds re-focused by a man-manager after being tossed on the Premier League scrap heap?)
I think it's a bit unfair to say that just because they've never made it since leaving us, that they never would have made it. Especially when it comes to defenders because they need to rely more on their mental abilities ? which would presumably lead to a confidence knock when dumped ? of focus, reading and anticipation rather than their feet. (For example, Would Jags or Baines have made it if they hadn't had their spirits lifted and minds re-focused by a man-manager after being tossed on the Premier League scrap heap?)
But yes, I see your point about defensive mistakes being highlighted more though.
I just "lol-ed" at Seamus Vinegar.
Eugene - you never had chips in Switzerland or Germany, where there's plenty of mustard and mayonnaise and salt but no vinegar. Shame really...
Yeah Mike, totally right, Shameus really...
Tommy, did the Tomato Krøldrup bottle have a top on it?
Just curious as the Krøldrup Moyes bought apparently had a problem with his 'lid'.
By the way, I lived 8 years in Dublin and ALWAYS respected the City by referring to the chippy as the 'chipper'.
I suggest as this is a website dedicated to Liverpool's original team, you fall in line with the accepted 'chippy'.
Mike Oates, unfortunately, I've NEVER had Chips in Switzerland but I think it's a great name for an 'ironic' (nb: without any irony) indie-punk band.
"Layjennelmen...CHIPS IN SWITZERLAAAAAND!!"
Crowd of spotty teens go nuts type stuff.
Just curious as the Krøldrup Moyes bought apparently had a problem with his 'lid'.
By the way, I lived 8 years in Dublin and ALWAYS respected the City by referring to the chippy as the 'chipper'.
I suggest as this is a website dedicated to Liverpool's original team, you fall in line with the accepted 'chippy'.
Mike Oates, unfortunately, I've NEVER had Chips in Switzerland but I think it's a great name for an 'ironic' (nb: without any irony) indie-punk band.
"Layjennelmen...CHIPS IN SWITZERLAAAAAND!!"
Crowd of spotty teens go nuts type stuff.
Hee hee. The one in the "chippy" had no top on it Eugene!
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1 Posted 22/02/2011 at 14:13:46
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