The Mail Bag
Please drop Cahill!
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I would like to rekindle an old argument after the last time Moyes played a 4-4-2 with Beckford and Saha.
They have only played twice together and we won both games against two good teams in the Prem with decent defences. You can see that they are perfect for eachother. Saha drops deep with good dribbling, cleverness, awareness and can shoot in the edge of the box. Beckford goes with the last man with good runs and decent finishing. Both different kinds of strikers and both compliment eachother.
Now, what will Moyes do? Once Cahill gets fit, he will be back into the side and drop Beckford. This is a mistake as we have not been attacking enough already this season.
It might be wise to play Cahill if we want to play a counter attacking, away from home against one of the big 4 for example. But once we're home or playing a lower team away (I would like class Newcastle) then we can attack from the off and win. Saha can even drop to that Cahill role once we try to hold the lead.
Beckford has been sloppy, naive at times, but the runs he makes are second to none, it's quality. We haven't had a striker with much goalscoring ability and intent for a while... a different kind of number 9. While he's confident and while he's scoring, we can't drop him just yet.
Ben Jones, Posted 28/02/2011 at 11:53:05
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If Cahill starts, it should be in midfield. Arteta going left perhaps, his run for the first goal showed us the skill we have missed on that side since Pienaar left. We have to keep two up front, not exactly worked well this season any other way on a consistent basis.
It's called "having options" although at the moment I think we have one or two fitness doubts going into Tuesday's game, so I am sure Moyes will get it right. But I agree that Beckford's movement is very good, and compliments Saha.
As for Arteta moving to the left, I think with Fellaini sitting deep, Arteta is best where he is. And one last point, Osman deserves credit for Saturday, i thought he was very good, created the first goal, linked with Baines well and deserved a goal.
As for Arteta moving to the left, I think with Fellaini sitting deep, Arteta is best where he is. And one last point, Osman deserves credit for Saturday, i thought he was very good, created the first goal, linked with Baines well and deserved a goal.
Beckford's finishing has at times been shocking, the goals he scored on Saturday cannot get back the points he cost us with his miss in the corresponding fixture at the SoL, but you are right, the guy has balls, he won't hide and will keep getting into those positions.
The trouble is, when Louis isnt fit, Beckford becomes almost like a wasted player, when he is the one who has to do battle with the centre-backs, he comes second every time. Horses for courses, I say.
The trouble is, when Louis isnt fit, Beckford becomes almost like a wasted player, when he is the one who has to do battle with the centre-backs, he comes second every time. Horses for courses, I say.
What happened to the posters stating that Moyes was too rigid in his line up? Are these the same saying we should play 4-4-2 all the time? You see the irony there?
As the poster above says, horses for courses. Some games you can go 4-4-2 and others it would be more wise to start 4-5-1 and then revert to 4-4-2 near the end.
As the poster above says, horses for courses. Some games you can go 4-4-2 and others it would be more wise to start 4-5-1 and then revert to 4-4-2 near the end.
I think you're right Dave. Beckford clearly isn't a lone striker and Saha, a kind of striker who likes to drop deep, is the only guy who compliments him.
But that was predictable anyway. It was always Becchio and Beckford for Leeds. He's a 4-4-2 striker.
But I argue, whilst he's confident and whilst he keeps getting in these positions, we need to continue playing Saha and Beckford up front.
And with Cahill playing midfield, it's not a bad idea. I could always see him as a box-to-box midfielder as he has great energy. But we need some creativity in centre midfield and a midfield with Rodwell/Fellaini and Cahill is not creative. I'd just continue the same team on Tuesday to be honest, barring Fellaini still isn't fit so just slot Rodwell in instead.
But that was predictable anyway. It was always Becchio and Beckford for Leeds. He's a 4-4-2 striker.
But I argue, whilst he's confident and whilst he keeps getting in these positions, we need to continue playing Saha and Beckford up front.
And with Cahill playing midfield, it's not a bad idea. I could always see him as a box-to-box midfielder as he has great energy. But we need some creativity in centre midfield and a midfield with Rodwell/Fellaini and Cahill is not creative. I'd just continue the same team on Tuesday to be honest, barring Fellaini still isn't fit so just slot Rodwell in instead.
Agreed Beckford with Saha is the way to go especially at home. Problem is what happens when Saha inevitably picks up injuries. Cahill is a great impact sub to have though.
Here we go again! Drop 9 goals in 20 games Cahill ? he's obviously past his use by date!
The only player we have who makes scoring against the top 6 look easy The only player we have who is frequently named by those top 6 clubs defenders as being the worse they have to played against.
Drop him for a raw kid who scored two scuffed shots against a crap Sunderland team and an enigma who can't play more than 3 games on the trot before breaking down!
First name on my teamsheet every week and I am NO Moyes fan! Given a good run-in now Cahill will finish on 13-15 goals and for a "midfielder" (which he is not imho) that's not too bad especially for a poor scoring side like us.
The only player we have who makes scoring against the top 6 look easy The only player we have who is frequently named by those top 6 clubs defenders as being the worse they have to played against.
Drop him for a raw kid who scored two scuffed shots against a crap Sunderland team and an enigma who can't play more than 3 games on the trot before breaking down!
First name on my teamsheet every week and I am NO Moyes fan! Given a good run-in now Cahill will finish on 13-15 goals and for a "midfielder" (which he is not imho) that's not too bad especially for a poor scoring side like us.
It was good to see two out and out strikers start the match, but was it down to Cahill not being fully fit? I think that neither Saha or Beckford are good enough to play the lone striker, but both together look a very good partnership.
I still don't see the problem with Cahill being an attacking midfielder a la Lampard rather than a supporting striker. However, it does give us options as long as Moyes picks the correct choice every week!
I still don't see the problem with Cahill being an attacking midfielder a la Lampard rather than a supporting striker. However, it does give us options as long as Moyes picks the correct choice every week!
Mathew
If you asked 10 Evertonians what the correct starting 11should be you would probably get 10 different answers.
The only thing they would all agree on is that Moyes is wrong, we are a bit like every other team in that respect.
If you asked 10 Evertonians what the correct starting 11should be you would probably get 10 different answers.
The only thing they would all agree on is that Moyes is wrong, we are a bit like every other team in that respect.
Let's not forget that Cahill is a top player for us. If he wasn't in our team we'd have half of the Premier League trying to buy him. It's good to have the options we have, particularly with Saha's injury record. Beckford looks like he will score goals for us, for my money we still need a striker though as Saha is made of glass and we look a bit lightweight if we only have Anichebe as backup...
It's a strange question in that Cahill has strengths that can be used in some games and Beckford playing off a holding striker be better in other games. Cahill at the moment still looks like he's carrying the injury he brought home so shouldn't be first choice of the two but, as Ben says, and I too have said on plenty of occasions, Beckford needs a holding player to play off and he'll never be a lone striker so using him as one is a waste.
If all players are available, I'd prefer to start 4-4-2 with Beckford and Saha and use Cahill as a sub later on in a game but that's just my opinion and, as Dave Wilson says, you could ask a dozen blues their version and get a dozen different answers.
If all players are available, I'd prefer to start 4-4-2 with Beckford and Saha and use Cahill as a sub later on in a game but that's just my opinion and, as Dave Wilson says, you could ask a dozen blues their version and get a dozen different answers.
Just a couple of points. I think Cahill needs resting with a view to restoring his sharpness and appetite for the game. Can anyone say how long it is since he had a close-season? It must be years!
Secondly they were quite obviously the "worst 2 goals" scored by Beckford this season, as opposed to the others which were screamers. I don't care how he scores just as long as he scores. He's fast and is aware and selfish ? just what you want from a striker.
Secondly they were quite obviously the "worst 2 goals" scored by Beckford this season, as opposed to the others which were screamers. I don't care how he scores just as long as he scores. He's fast and is aware and selfish ? just what you want from a striker.
I generally agree with #8 Mark... Cahill is the most consistent scorer we've got, and I care more about goals than great runs.
But it's a pointless argument right now. Beckford limped off on Saturday and neither Saha nor Cahill is fully fit. Let's just hope the three of them can combine to get the jobs done tomorrow and at the weekend. If all three of them are healthy someday, then we can debate their respective merits.
But it's a pointless argument right now. Beckford limped off on Saturday and neither Saha nor Cahill is fully fit. Let's just hope the three of them can combine to get the jobs done tomorrow and at the weekend. If all three of them are healthy someday, then we can debate their respective merits.
Tony J Williams #5
Spot on. Horses for Courses.
Be's post is a bit naive, although I'm sure he only wants the best for EFC.
It's part of the art of the modern day Manager to pick a team to outdo the opposition, not blindly to stick to a 'one size fits all' approach.
Drop Cahill? Occasionally, Yes, depending on the opponents, but for my money he should play 90% of the matches and with Saha and Beckford in the same line-up, especially at Home.
Spot on. Horses for Courses.
Be's post is a bit naive, although I'm sure he only wants the best for EFC.
It's part of the art of the modern day Manager to pick a team to outdo the opposition, not blindly to stick to a 'one size fits all' approach.
Drop Cahill? Occasionally, Yes, depending on the opponents, but for my money he should play 90% of the matches and with Saha and Beckford in the same line-up, especially at Home.
Naive Karl? I don't see what's naive about it.
I said on the post playing Cahill and Saha would perhaps be a better game away from home, when we need to fill the midfield and we can try and counter.
But we need to keep playing these two up front as in the last 2 games they were both very impressive. We can also see the way they both play, they both compliment eachother very well.
If as you say Karl, you would like Cahill to play in games at home with Saha and Beckford, where would you play him? As Dave and Gavin says, it is all about opinions, and me watching Cahill for the time he's been at Everton, he has only been effective i that attacking midfield role. That would be one of the very few criticisms I would give him.
I said on the post playing Cahill and Saha would perhaps be a better game away from home, when we need to fill the midfield and we can try and counter.
But we need to keep playing these two up front as in the last 2 games they were both very impressive. We can also see the way they both play, they both compliment eachother very well.
If as you say Karl, you would like Cahill to play in games at home with Saha and Beckford, where would you play him? As Dave and Gavin says, it is all about opinions, and me watching Cahill for the time he's been at Everton, he has only been effective i that attacking midfield role. That would be one of the very few criticisms I would give him.
Ben
Generalising... at home, against teams outside the Top 6 probably just behind both Beckford and Saha, with midfield of Arteta, Fella and Rodders.
Against Top 6 at home and away from home against all but the weakest, just behind Saha with a midfield of Fella, Rodders, Arteta and Osman.
But really that is too simplistic and each game and each opponent has it's own way to be approached. Horses for Courses.
I think your headline of 'Please Drop Cahill!' is naive. It suggests you can't see a place in the team for him at all and that you don't rate him. Although you later retract a bit of that by saying you would play him at 'easy' away games like Newcastle... (Hmmm, are you serious? Just ask Villa, Arsenal, Sunderland, Liverpool who have let in a combined total of 18 goals in 4 games there this season!) You still say you don't see a place for him other than in a 4-4-1-1? I would say it depends more on the overall gameplan.
Anyway, let's not fall out over it. It's all about opinions as you say. Let's hope all 3 are fit to play this week and we beat Reading and Newcastle to get some momentum finally going in this stop-start season.
Generalising... at home, against teams outside the Top 6 probably just behind both Beckford and Saha, with midfield of Arteta, Fella and Rodders.
Against Top 6 at home and away from home against all but the weakest, just behind Saha with a midfield of Fella, Rodders, Arteta and Osman.
But really that is too simplistic and each game and each opponent has it's own way to be approached. Horses for Courses.
I think your headline of 'Please Drop Cahill!' is naive. It suggests you can't see a place in the team for him at all and that you don't rate him. Although you later retract a bit of that by saying you would play him at 'easy' away games like Newcastle... (Hmmm, are you serious? Just ask Villa, Arsenal, Sunderland, Liverpool who have let in a combined total of 18 goals in 4 games there this season!) You still say you don't see a place for him other than in a 4-4-1-1? I would say it depends more on the overall gameplan.
Anyway, let's not fall out over it. It's all about opinions as you say. Let's hope all 3 are fit to play this week and we beat Reading and Newcastle to get some momentum finally going in this stop-start season.
Dave Wilson, I agreed with you comments about Leon Osman on another thread. Why are you less forgiving about Beckford?
I was surprised to see Moyes come out and state he'd actually prefer to a play a 4-4-2. Not so surprised that the reason he doesn't generally do so is to accommodate Tim Cahill:
" I went 4-4-2 because Tim wasn?t ready, but I?ve said before if I had my way I think that?s the way I?d play,? explained Moyes.
?But we?ve found that we?ve got a player who plays in a position and scores goals and gives us something else. That was Tim Cahill.
?So a lot of the team selections over the season have been to do with Tim."
" I went 4-4-2 because Tim wasn?t ready, but I?ve said before if I had my way I think that?s the way I?d play,? explained Moyes.
?But we?ve found that we?ve got a player who plays in a position and scores goals and gives us something else. That was Tim Cahill.
?So a lot of the team selections over the season have been to do with Tim."
It's not either or, it's both in my opinion.
Cahill behind two strikers so he can arrive late, Fellaini behind and you push Arteta out wide right or you keep him inside and move to a wing backs system.
That's how I do it on FIFA anyhoo!
Cahill behind two strikers so he can arrive late, Fellaini behind and you push Arteta out wide right or you keep him inside and move to a wing backs system.
That's how I do it on FIFA anyhoo!
Remember that Cahill on the bench was forced on DM due to lack of TC's fitness.
Expect him to be in the starting line-up as soon as he is fit again.
Expect him to be in the starting line-up as soon as he is fit again.
I've just noticed this thread from last week - Drop Cahill - from Ben Jones.
In the cold light of the Reading debacle that was a silly statement eh' Ben? Bite you on the bum time.
Oh, by the way, how about a mention for supporters of Ben's offering.
Take a bow, Mark Y, Jamie M, James S, Gavin R, Tony W and last but not least, Karl M.
Tiny would have given more in 10 minutes than that load of shite did last night.
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1 Posted 28/02/2011 at 14:18:23
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It's always played on my mind that this guy was on a free and everyone knew that his contract was up... YET NOT ONE SINGLE RUMOUR OF ANOTHER CLUB BEING INTERESTED...? Just home and hosed he was going to Everton? Not one counter-bid to speak to him from any other top-flight club? That worries me to this day...
However, that said, Moyes's allegiance to Cahill is unhealthy and it constantly ensures we become predictable.
I feel that Beckford is not a Prem player but we cannot drop the guy at the minute ? nor should we...