A little too comfy

I know it's boring, but with very restricted finances and a decent manager, it was inevitable that some complacency would creep into Moyes's outlook, and that the chairman would be very reluctant to criticise him.

Interesting point of view all the same.

Interesting change of tack from your recent 'Devil's Advocate' Shaun... and sadly this pretty much nails the danger of complacency. Neither BK or DM have any targets beyond survival in the league ? mediocrity is not just creeping in but has taken over.

Shaun, the comfort comes from the fans.

Beyond some howling at the moon postings from codgers like me, the cushion throwers of yesteryear have given up.

With the Kenwright crew, including Moyes, non-descript and mid-table is not just acceptable but viewed as success.

Disappointingly, many fans appear of the same mind.

I agree. BK is quite happy to settle for a top 10 finish. It's clear BK cannot afford to sack Moyes anyway so Moyes is quite relaxed over that. Good article. Spot on.

Better to be comfortable in the top ten than uncomfortably near the Championship. But I take the point. Lethargy sets in.

So Moyes is under no pressure?

Most of us have known that for years, Shaun.

And we could all give you a dozen reasons why Kenwright won't dare bollock him.

Sacking Moyes is the last thing we should do.

BK would just appoint an even worst stooge.

Until BK and cronies are outed the club will never be run competitively

Just too add a little more weight to the theory about pressure. When the season starts, everybody is in a happy moment which is based on the fact that we have the same points as everybody else. We start off full of optimism and Moyes portrays the demeanour of a happy- go-lucky man confident that it will be all right on the night. We then tend to struggle for the first 18 games and the spectre of relegation looms large on the horizon.

Suddenly, Moyes finds the belief to motivate the players and hence the improved results in the second half of the season. Pressure is a strange thing and it can either destroy or make some people. I suggest that Moyes needs to feel the pressure to bring out the best in him... Just a theory.

What happened to Moyes meeting with the Board to lay out the Summer transfer budget? Did they say to Moyes "We have nothing to spend until we sell"? If that was the result of the meeting then let us know for sure instead of just speculating. That way, I will not look at transfer gossip until we have sold someone. Everton drive me fucking crazy.

Sam #5 ? "Better to be comfortable in the top ten than uncomfortably near the Championship. But I take the point. Lethargy sets in."

The Championship is where we will end up if our apathetic fans continue with this attitude. A top ten finish is NOT FUCKING GOOD ENOUGH.

I really am sick to the back teeth that the majority of Evertonians are happy to put up with this regime. It hurts but the only way to get BK out is to stop giving him your hard-earned money. 5 or 6 home games with less than16000 gates would do it but our fans don't seem to have the balls to do anything.

So as I have often spouted on here you get what you put up with.

Ah... genius way to help Everton when they're in a tight economic situation, not turning up to the game. That will be an attractive signal for new buyers wouldn't it, gates of less than 16,000 every week.

Our club is treading water financially, you can argue all day about who's fault it is, but why would you do the one thing sure to push it over the edge into administration and points loss, coupled with probably relegation? Genius.

BK wouldn' dare pull up DM about not doing his job properly; if he did, Moyes would stick the V-sign up at him and tell him to go where the sun don't shine. Who the hell would BK even appoint? And how many managers (even an average one) would work for BK? He simply would not risk it.

Did you not witness the ginger one's moody temperament at the end of lost games? Did you not witness his rollicking of Beckford at the end of the Wolves game and during it? Did you not read about players such as Arteta stating how angry Moyes was at the poor start to last season and how he had every right to be? To state that Moyes has become complacent is far off the mark in my opinion. I do not think for one minute Moyes is happy with finishing in the ?top ten? and I?m sure the players aren?t either. When he says he?d be happy with mediocrity, it invariably is in context with the dire situation (results and form wise) we found ourselves in last season.

Nobody who supports Everton are ?happy? with finishing in the top 10, European places etc, however, as realists, we?re pleased with the situation given the extreme circumstances. And I say extreme circumstances, as Premiership managers have continuously expressed their wonderment at how Moyes does what he does with Everton.

I guarantee you, it would be one of the worst moments of my Everton life if they were to sack Moyes. Worse that watching the relegation battles during the 90s/early 00s. Worse than my brothers and Dad lying to me and saying Duncan Ferguson had been sold only to then find out a few weeks later that we actually did sell him! David Moyes deserves all the plaudits and more for the job that he is doing. He definitely gets things wrong and admits it himself. But what good would it do if he got the sack for abject performances like the Newcastle game when simply people make mistakes in every walk of life.

The post about boycotting the games is ridiculous as a final thought. You?re cutting your nose off (and Everton?s) to spite your face, as the saying goes. Everton need all the money and support they can get and to protest against a Chairman, who is openly unable to fund the big money signings, whilst at the same time damaging the financial fabric of the club (Everton FC 1878 and not Bill Kenwright supporter/chairman 1945) seems a little backwards. Bill Kenwright is not the perfect chairman, something he himself admits, yet does anybody really think he?s in this football club to ?make money??! I can?t think of many other businesses where you would make less than you put in, not that there aren?t any mind you.

Not everything's perfect at Everton and there are things that frustrate me, but not nearly as much as the doom mongers on this website with their lack of support for the club and narrow-minded rants.

Rant over?

Good post. I would love to disagree, but I can not. Your addition at #8 is also a very possible theory.

I agree with those who say it would be unwise for BK to attack Moyes for fear he would walk, and those who also say it would be bad news to lose Moyes whilst the club is in such a state/BK and co. still in charge. But where does that leave us? A bit of a stalemate I think. If we want consistently better performances, then Moyes HAS to be pressured, and if he leaves/is sacked? Well maybe that would be the kick up the arse this club and its supporters need to move forward.

The only other real options are, Moyes magically changes and gets more consistent performances out of his squad (unlikely) OR the fans remain apathetic and accept inconsistency and mid-table obscurity (very likely, and our current situation).

Matt, are you a club plant?

Shaun, I agree with your article and think it is good. I also agree with Dave Wilson's post. So what do we do? Carry on with Moyes saving the appalling Kenwright and slowly stagnate?(Slowly destroying the reputation of David Moyes in the meantime...) Or what?

Well, without a billionaire, we are sadly stuck with Kenwright. The only alternative is to carry on as we are or have a new coach. David Moyes is under no pressure so that's out as well. Our hand must be forced, we need a curious sequence of events that sees Moyes go, happily, to Spurs (or somewhere) and Everton to bring in a coach who can offer more with what we've got.

(Please don't ask me to name a replacement, I've done it before and I don't believe that £3.5 million a year can't buy better). Something must happen.

Good post, Shaun. But Matt (12):

"I guarantee you, it would be one of the worst moments of my Everton life if they were to sack Moyes."

So obviously there's no other manager on the planet Earth better than Moyes?

"Motivation is the key" (Steve Hillage) and let's face the truth Moyesie didn't quite come up trumps with the lower teams in the league... Did he?

I wonder how many season tickets have been sold???

The silence from the club makes me think that maybe some of our fans are waking up to the fact that the only way to invoke a change is to stop giving that lying luvvie their money.

I hate what Kenwright is doing to this club.

Jon Cox - Show me a manager in the world who has done what David Moyes has done with the state our club was/is in.

And no Gavin, I'm not; neither am I a manic depressive.

Matt, are you serious? David Moyes has played a shit hand reasonably well at best. Do you believe that our constant poor starts to the season are nothing to do with him? He signed and coaches these players. If he is angry at them what has he done about it? Are you actually saying that no one in the world could have done what Moyes has done?

I can understand those who admire Moyes fearing a future without him. He brought some stability and he deserves thanks and praise for that. However, can you not imagine, even for a moment that things might have been better?

Motivation is brought about by competition for places... that is obvious! When a player returned from injury or lost form in the past, he dropped to the reserves. We do not have competition for places so complacency is bound to come into the equation.

We have players who can play if they want... even if off-form. Where is the competition for places? Our squad is threadbare!

Of course, DM cannot be blamed; his job is amongst the safest in football. He cannot lose!!! If he somehow attains success, he is a Messiah... and if he doesn't, it is because of lack of support financially.

The way I see it is Moyesie gets pissed off with empty promises and no new squad members at the start of every season. His demeanour rubs off on the players who also switch off.

We then realise we are in the shit and need to do something dramatic so the pressure is back on and Moyesie wakes up to his real ability which is to organise and motivate the squad at his disposal ? not the one he would have liked.

Having then wrenched every drop of sweat from the players, we limp over the finish line in the top 10. Simply not good enough all round... but especially at boardroom level.

We're 6th in the table people. And pretty close to the leaders. Let's not let a dull pre-season be cause for mass depression. It was surely what we were expecting.

As for those suggesting boycotting games... Grow up!

Sam, I get to few enough games without thinking about a boycott. Can anyone come up with something that would hurt Kenwright without affecting the team? Genuine question.

I submit that Moyes with no money yet with loyal support from his chairman and board would not be under anywhere near the pressure of rich clubs' managers. Anything less than winning the league for those blokes is classed as failure and often leads to dismissal and a drop in their coaching credibility.

Our Davey's pinch-a-point tactics collect enough of them to avoid relegation and probably earn a few MotMs along the way.

The other lot across the park at the very least need to qualify for the Champions League or their manic fans will turn against Dalglish with worse vitriol some on this page throw at Blue Bill.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to get to more than a handful of matches home and mainly away each season ? so the idea of a boycott is somewhat academic for me. However, if some supporters feel the current Board are enough of a liability to the future well-being of the club, then I can understand the consideration of such a course of action to put pressure on the Board.

To date, none of the Board has put any money into the club, nor have they been willing to dilute their shareholding by having a new share issue to raise funds, despite much speculation that the purchase cost of their own shares has been transferred back onto the club... and it's also generally believed that any offer to purchase the club would only be successful if unrealistically high.

Maybe such a boycott would force the Board to review their business strategy. Otherwise, we seem to be stagnating prior to an inevitable decline whilst the Board wait for the next DK style opportunity. One could argue that to continue to support the current regime may do the club more harm than good.

Andy #23

I suppose someone could always shoot Kenwright?

I have the feeling that we aren't going to see the back of BK until he dies. One thing I've learnt in life is: the bigger the bastard, the longer they live. So he could be hanging around for quite some time yet.

That is, unless someone has the stones to shoot the prick, or put some arsenic in his soup or something...

If anyone thinks they're up to the task, you will be a friend of mine for life, and I will also see to it that you get a decent colour TV in your cell, so you can watch the game.

Chris # 27, You are in urgent need of Psychiatric help as is a few others on this site.

Our bad starts are due to the depressing realisation by the squad and manager that nothing new is coming in and we have no hope of progressing. Hence the sulks and strops and lazy oh no here we go again peformances.

Only after Xmas do we smack the mard lips and pull our fingers out

If we bring in one or two 'name' players the fans will anticipate a better season to come and fresh faces always stimulate the faithful.
If we carry on trotting out the same players another year older and pretty set in their ways, then boredom and complacency sets in for both players and fans.
If players do not realistically anticipate success then the ones who have reached the semi twilight of their careers will happily pick up the cash and 'do a job'.....those with ambition will want away !!
Thats pretty much a given in all walks of life.
DM does well with what he has and as I have said many times over the past years..he has the safest job in football....no pressure to succeed and survival in the premier all he is asked for by BK.
Our motto has become a joke and mediocrity has become the norm.
People talk about our recent record against the top four but even lower league teams beat them on occasion during the cup competitions....nothing in sport of any kind is a given !!

Can anyone reasonably answer how boycotting the games is going to affect the players? If we turn up and give them a full house, they get paid; if it's empty, they get paid... and either way, the club spends sweet fa on reinforcements or replacements.

Discuss....

Gavin,

Let's flip that question on its head - do you believe that playing in front of full houses does not, ever, at some stage in at least one match throughout a season motivate the players?

I believe that playing in front of half-empty stadiums would affect the players in that a feeling of "even the fans have given up, why should I bother...I'll get on to my agent to orchestrate a transfer to a club who are not in disarray" would set in.

Chris @ 27,

Get some perspective. Kenwright may be a well-meaning (?) buffoon who has got himself in too deep and told lies to cover his own failings and mistakes, but he's hardly a mass murderer or rapist.

Matts comments(see no.13 )are spot on. Don't forget its the club that counts for so many people--irrespctive of the ownership at any one time.

BK and DM are doing their best with resources at their disposal. If we had Man City resources, then they would not be doing well.--but where do we find a multi-billionaire or company willing to lose £200 million per year.!!!

We will get our billionaire just in time for the new financial rules coming in, and he wont be allowed to spend any of it on players!

Ian, I hate to use those unmentionables in red as an example, but they seemed to find somebody to get themselves out of a hole and it cost a damned site more than £200 million. Why? Because they were actually looking to sell and actively did something about it. Ok so they are a bigger brand than us at the moment but for the first 70 years of football Everton was THE team in this city. With a little imagination and a willingness to turn things around we could be THE team again. Hey we can all dream can't we?

A round of applause for internet warrior and obvious cretin Chris Bannatyne.

I've said it before on here and I think now is the time to say it again, posts like Chris's only serve to strengthen Kenwright's support by alienating decent people who want nothing to do with the types of social inadequate who would wish death upon someone for the way they run a football club.

I do want Kenwright out, but to think i'm essentially on the same side of the argument as a piece of pond-life like Bannatyne doesn't sit comfortably at all.

I remember talking to David Moyes at Chicago airport several years ago when they had just been beaten by the Chicago Fire team. I said to him I had enjoyed the game and he said "apart from the result". He sounded pissed and did not give me the impression of being complacent even for a game which meant nothing.

I don't blame Moyes for the games you talk about, Shaun ? I blame the players. Apart from a few of them, the home born players and a few others like Neville, the players have shown a lot of complacency at the beginning of the last two seasons and I suspect their attitude has only improved as the season has progressed due to constant rollicking by Moyes.

I first started watching Everton at the age of six and am now 71. At no time during those 65 years have I feared for the future of my club. Right now I believe, unless a miracle happens, we are heading for relegation. It won't happen for a few years but slowly other teams will leapfrog us. Moyes will inevitably get pissed off and leave and what decent manager will come to us with Kenwright in charge and no money to spend? We can't even afford cast-offs from other teams for Gods sake. The only thing that has saved us over the last five years or so is the sale of Rooney and Lescott ? without those sales, we probably would be bankrupt already.

I can only hope Moyes stays until my sell-by date and during that time we at least win a few cups. Before anyone starts asking me if I like way we play or our style of play at times, the answer is "No, I don't like it". The only problem is that I can't see how any other manager (if we could get one) could improve our results, our style of play or our league position with the players we have, without funds to improve the squad and having to sell our best players to purchase others who probably are not as good as the ones they replace.

Give our editors a bit of credit will you. It's as clear as daylight that the comment by Chris # 27 was said with a touch of black humour. Whilst I don't particularly agree with his sentiments I can see this as nothing more than an attempt at adding a touch of levity. I am certain that if the editors thought it was meant as a serious comment it would have been removed before now.

Michael, you have my upmost respect for the length of time that you have supported this club and I also have the same fears as you that if changes are not afoot then there is no more family silver to sell and the future looks bleak. However, I cant agree with you that Moyes could not do better with what he has got.

Here is an interesting thought. If Moyes would have swapped positions with Sir Alex prior to the start of last season. Do you think Utd would have won the league and we would have finished 7th? Ok I know you cant answer that but it does get you thinking doesnt it.

Sam (# 23) ? "We're 6th in the table, people" We finished 7th Sam, and to say "We're pretty close to the leaders"... Well, 26 pts behind Man Utd, 17 pts behind Chelsea and Man City and 14 pts behind Arsenal and all of them having a hugely better GD, says to me that we are a million miles away from the leaders.

Shaun, If magically we could have swapped squads with United, I would bet Sir Alex would not have won the league this last year. On occasions, the team Moyes has put out has been excellent and on other occasions has been dire, so he is capable of putting out a team that plays well.

The bottom line is that, to win anything, it has to be consistent over the whole season... and to do that, you have to have a good squad, which we don't have.

I suspect Moyes is forced to play players who have knocks, tired legs, or simply are not at their best due to the fact we have nobody to take their place. Sir Alex does not have that problem; and anyway he has that brat Rooney.

Dick (28). Quite right as well. Shooting, very distasteful.

What we should do is club together and buy BK a new Chairman's chair for Christmas.

You know the type that has a 13 amp plug on the end of it!

Mike Rourke, I would suggest that Chris's comment was tongue in cheek. I think he was using hyperbole to emphasise just how utterly pissed off he is. Jon Cox has just done the same. Calm down.

Think Moyes puts himself under plenty of pressure ? did you see him after the Newcastle and Stoke games? He was livid.

What could the chairman say at the end of the day? If he sacked Moyes he would have to compensate him and no-one knows better than Moyes that we haven't got a pot to piss in.

Andy, I'm doing a nice line in Vallium snadwiches,

Any takers?