Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Just This Fan's Response, Mr Elstone
By Christine Foster :: 16/07/2011
82 Comments (»Last)
For me, it?s with increasing annoyance at the response of Mr Elstone that cries out for some response. That we hear nothing all summer, once more, but this season the lack of communication / information, expectation, no excitement, is worse than I can ever remember. But sadly it's become the accepted norm for so many of us.
So Mr Elstone, you may have been doing the best with what the club has got. In honesty, I doubt anyone would really argue the reality of the management having to deal with our legacy situation, indeed it forms the starting point of the club's operating strategy. You deal with situations with what you have.
But, once again, there is no answer regarding the reasons the club is where it is, nor what the club is doing about its future. For these are the questions that cannot and should not be the responsibility of the CEO ? they are the responsibility of the Board of Directors to ensure the business (any business, not just EFC) has access to funding and competently manages the future of the club.
Ask yourself why that has not happened, we are not as blind or as gullible (or stupid) as such a patronising response would indicate. Your annoyance in banging the same drum with the same answers totally misses the point. It?s NOT about where the money goes, never was. That?s just a smokescreen; you know it, we know it. It's not about the next transfer, the next game, which player comes and goes, the way the money is used operationally (although in truth there are questionable ones commercially), but realise too that, as much as the daily juggling allows you to manage the commercial affairs of the club, it is the responsibility of the Board of Directors to ensure you have the funding to take the club into the future. It is their vision, expertise and financial planning that is integral to ensuring we have a future. That is their responsibility. We know there is no money, we are sick of hearing it too.
What we don?t see, hear, or understand is the vision the Directors have for the club; we don?t SEE any future vision or any plan or any passion. What we see and hear is the arrogance of response, the silence... and we are left with scraps of a paltry few insignificant soundbytes that leave us confused as to what that future is. Investment and or sale? Yes? No? A bit of both?
That?s not a vision, that?s not a plan. That?s an exit strategy and herein lies the problem. The track record of future proofing this club has, and continues to be, a litany of deceit, incompetence and broken promises for the past decade at least. It is a dereliction of duty from the Board should there not be a way forward. But if there is, then for goodness sake what is wrong with telling us what that vision is?
As it stands, we are sinking. Slowly maybe, but increasingly shipping water faster than you or the team can ship it out. So, when the team fails to deliver and has no ability to refresh, when the kids fail to deliver, when David Moyes finally says enough is enough, what then?
You see Mr Elstone, that?s OUR fear. We cannot see any other rational conclusion to the restraints you have to work within. But the reason for those constraints resides with the past decisions made by the Directors (and senior operational management) of this club. That track record fuels our fear, the absence of credibility just ignites the fuel.
We cannot do anything about the decisions of the past. Yesterday has gone. It's how we deal with today and tomorrow that counts. But we keep doing it! Our frustrations lead us to question the Board because we actually do understand the need to balance the books in every way you can. But you can tell us till you're blue in the face where the money is going, but no one is telling us where we (the club) are going and how we are going to get there. You have a model that is not sustainable ? your view, not just ours. With every day that risk is growing. In the past few days, you and Ian Ross have elected to focus on where the money has gone. A tactic to move the focus away from the real issue, that?s the future of the club in case you missed it.
The Board if Directors are responsible for the direction of the club and providing the means to get there. That does not mean their personal wealth should / has to be invested either, but the provision of infrastructure funding, future strategy and vision is their responsibility. The absence of either or both means they sit on the Board because of their shareholding and not their ability to act as that vehicle. There is allegedly enough personal financial wealth to indicate that many have access to funds or should have the ability to find the right buyer, otherwise what value are they adding? Successful people bring successful solutions? So where are they?
Moving on, many in the club (and yes, even some supporters too) may ask if we have any right to expect that we should or need to be informed on how this is going to happen. But the absence of any deeds results in the questions you don?t want to answer; could it be because you can?t either?
We need and deserve better leadership, a fresh initiative, a new (or any) vision from the Board of this club. We need credibility from the top and performance from that team.
As for communication? I have written on these pages that the club could and should include its supporters, their skills and love for this club in a more proactive manner ? you're missing a trick, a big opportunity.
We want to help build ? not destroy. We want to have faith and belief and yes, PRIDE in those that lead our club. Yet, over the past decade, we have witnessed walls being built between the club and supporters faster than any brickie could repair the Park End wall. You may THINK you are communicating with the community and the fans groups but the club is NOT addressing the real issues.
But then you know that don?t you?
Reader Comments (82)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
2 Posted 16/07/2011 at 08:56:30
3 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:06:58
Everton Football Club Company Ltd. is a small business in the grand scheme of things, that depends on a further 50% of it's income from 1 source...errm Mr. Murdoch.
A friend of mine used to be a supplier to a major national retailer that went into liquidation. Result = End of his business.
Also, I'm surprised no one picked up on a comment made in The People's Group about £12m needing to be found by the Club by the end of August to keep the creditors from the door. Does anyone know anything about this?
4 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:02:37
You use the word vision alot throughout the piece, and that really struck a chord with me.
We can get bogged down (myself included) in purely focusing on the past and it's well documented blunders and missed opportunities. And then of course the current debacle is starting to unravel before our eyes, but you are spot on to question the board and Elstone on what vision they have for the club, where do they see us in five years time? what is the roadmap? etc etc.
5 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:42:40
6 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:45:52
My over riding thought after reading his 'defence' of the board? Patronising prick.
Gotta love this bit though:
""Our strategy to achieve this goal is on three levels ? firstly, an ongoing and prioritised search for new investment and a new stadium and we are active on both of these challenging fronts; secondly to out-perform our rivals developing, and buying and selling players ? a strategy supported by this board?s investment in Finch Farm and the high-quality individuals working alongside the manager; and, thirdly ? a focus on profitability and growth"
So, the fact the club are failing on all three points of your three point plan doesn't indicate to you that your three point plan is fundamentally flawed?
Hate to break it to you mate, but hearing (yet again) that everyone connected to the club is working around the clock, actively pursuing investment and trying to find a new ground, is not reassuring in the slightest. In fact it's just fucking insulting.
I'd also love an explanation of how Everton can possibly hope to 'outperform other clubs in buying and selling players', when we buy nobody at all and only seem to sell those players we don't really want to sell.
Keep patting yourself on the back for negotiating 'a record sponsorship deal' with Chang, but when you eventually remove your head from your arse you might realise it's a pittance compared to the deals negotiated by other clubs.
Wake up and realise that long suffering supporters can no longer be placated by mere claims to the boards 'hard work' off the pitch. Wake up and realise that the boards current 'strategy' is akin to no strategy at all. It's merely closing your eyes, pissing in the wind and hoping it doesn't splash back in your face.
7 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:55:13
However, Everton fans by and large are never going to do that ? because deep down they relish the fact that we are in the position we are in. It's like we are the poor relations, the boys from the wrong side of the tracks, the rough edges ? that still get results.
But, we don't get results. Sick and tired of hearing about 'punching above our weight' and just because we finish 7th on a shoestring we should be thankful and imagine if we were in Leeds's position. To me the facts that I look at are trophies. What have we won? I left high school in 1992, we've won 1 trophy since then. That is part of the reason why I am thoroughly pissed off with this club.
The other part is the ignorance of the facts that those in the high positions seem to offer. I'm not ever going to be grateful for this Board's efforts.
As for the comments on this blog effort, what a joke. Ok I am all for a balanced view, but how can you have a balanced view when the facts just stack up? Yes, we don't know exactly what happened, but for fuck's sake ? how many times can you get it wrong? Maybe it's time to move on, because you clearly are not capable of running a football club.
Back to those comments, how many of them are employed by Ian Ross?
8 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:04:51
Just one point for me ? personally, I can?t view fans that attend matches as investors. It?s a view which was stated recently in ? I believe ? Colin Fitzpatrick?s most recent column, but it doesn?t work for me. Fans are important. Fans are indispensible even. But every time I?ve paid to watch a game ? which is rarely now since I?ve lived abroad for almost 25 years ? I was paying to be there on the day/night. I didn?t expect anything back other than to be there. To see the game. Hopefully to win. I was never an investor. I know supporting a club is a complex thing, but the fact I?ve just finished my Fruit and Fiber won?t get me into a Kellogs shareholders? meeting.
I think we deserve to know because we were there before Mr Elstone and will be there after him. The current board has a duty as custodians of the club. That duty should ? imo ? be both to the club and its supporters.
Thanks again for the article.
9 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:06:01
?Should I or the Chairman meet fans whose top priority is to see him out of office and me out of a job? [?] We think not.?
Not that it makes any difference, but I think so. It would be a hard thing to do... a very hard thing to do well. But I think it?s better to do it Mr Elstone.
10 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:45:37
11 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:01:59
Medical - surely significant medical outlay is paid for by medical insurance - it is in the real world
The Kitbag deal - even a schoolchild could tell you that £x today is worth more than the same amount in ten years time and the fact it has severely limited where Evertonians can actually buy merchandising is pretty poor.
The record deal with Chang is poor in comparison to deals our peers have negotiated so in context isn't much to be proud of.
The club is for sale and in the same article the smoke and mirrors bullshitism of "investment" is used by him - investment is not sale you pillock.
The real nail in the coffin of this poor effort though is the claim to be in daily communication with fans groups, I'd pretty much say thats bullshit given his responses to Evertonians for Action and The Peoples Group.
The pressure needs to be kept up and the screws turned, this cannot go on.
Kenwright OUT
12 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:45:37
13 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:45:37
Nail firmly on head.......
14 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:18:33
a link to an article in todays Mirror
15 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:45:37
Nail firmly on head.......
16 Posted 16/07/2011 at 09:45:03
Unfortunately, buying tickets and shirts does not qualify you as an investor. This makes you one of hundreds of thousands of customers that make up the income. I do my shopping tesco's every week, I don't think that gives me the right to know the internal workings of the business. Why is football any different?
This brings me onto my next point. I like you, would also love to see the short, mid and long term business and sustainability plan of the club. But as with any other business in the world, is laying your plans out in public for your competitors to see a wise thing to do? Not to mention the fact that the majority of current and future financing mechanisms will be bound by confidentiality not be Everton, but by the creditors themselves.
The only thing I want to see this board doing, is finding the next group who have the finances and backing to take our club back up to the top where they belong. But it seems there is a shortage of billionaires willing to throw hundreds of millions into a football team. Aston Villa are a good example of how cut throat the EPL has become. Lerner has tried to run it as a business, and must have realised it is impossible. Villa have lost all their best players to bigger teams, regardless of the fact that they have offered good wages. Business plans seem to be secondary nowadays, the only way to compete is to have the resources to run up a huge debt (United owe more than 500 MILLION!) or be willing to pump in millions of your own personal wealth. Arsenal, the only team that don't run up huge debts through acquiring playing staff haven't won a trophy in 6 years. Spurs in spite of their great season, ended up only 8 points above us, but 18 points off the title.
Unless a new owner is found, I don't expect we will make any big signings for a couple more years at least, while we lower our debts and find fresh capital. The only real hope we have in this time, is in having some youth players come through that can make a real difference. The way the EPL is today, we can only be cylical business. Meaning we will always have to clear the debts before we can spend again. Am I happy with that? Certainly not. I hate not being able to compete just as much as the next evertonian. The only way out I see does not relate solely to business plans or acumen. The way we will reach Utopia is by finding someone with endless pockets.
17 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:26:57
18 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:26:27
John I was also confused by the line about the loss making departments and sudden carte blanche outsource route, whenever I've consulted for businesses with loss making departments the first call is to review the process and get shut of those responsible and bring onboard the right people for the job. I've worked for outsourcers and the general rule of thumb in my experience is the instant loss of local knowledge when they are brought in and drop in perceived quality which is slowly regained but overlooked by the bean counters who use it as a fiscal saving measure.
Merchandising isn't rocket science, you have stuff produced, you promote it, you get it out to market where as many people can see it and you sell it for as big a margin as your punters will take, and repeat over and over, surely this could be done in house and deal just made with outlets for product placement?
19 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:26:27
John I was also confused by the line about the loss making departments and sudden carte blanche outsource route, whenever I've consulted for businesses with loss making departments the first call is to review the process and get shut of those responsible and bring onboard the right people for the job. I've worked for outsourcers and the general rule of thumb in my experience is the instant loss of local knowledge when they are brought in and drop in perceived quality which is slowly regained but overlooked by the bean counters who use it as a fiscal saving measure.
Merchandising isn't rocket science, you have stuff produced, you promote it, you get it out to market where as many people can see it and you sell it for as big a margin as your punters will take, and repeat over and over, surely this could be done in house and deal just made with outlets for product placement?
20 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:37:59
21 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:40:42
I'm only saying that I don't think match-going fans are investors.
It's Christine's opinion of course, but I don't agree.
I don't want to call match-going fans customers, clients or consumers. At the same time, I think that there are stronger and more sound arguments in favour of why fans should know more.
22 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:46:43
I am saying that the mechanisms used to achieve your ends should be laid bare commercially either, but the vision and values and direction should be. Many, most indeed, companies of such size do lay it out for investors to see.
I don't mean the Business plan, I mean the Goal (not the one in front of the Park end either) of the club.
If the only vision the board have is a hope that someone will buy the club, thats a not good enough, we have to live whilst we wait.
23 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:53:21
24 Posted 16/07/2011 at 11:00:40
Dan (15) is it not a fact that all season ticket holders are creditors to the Club until the last game of the season?
25 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:50:15
But the lack of fans at the ground has probably more impact mentally than financially in the short term. 3000 seats equates to around 2.5% of turnover, not a huge amount. But in terms of what it does to the overall matchday experience, is the biggest factor. I hate seeing empty seats at Goodison, as I am sure you all do.
26 Posted 16/07/2011 at 10:47:25
Medical expenses should not be mentioned in the same breath as Finch Farm repayments because they're negligible. For Elstone to use it as a way of justifying the fact we have no money shows he's panicking because he's overstating its worth. I don't trust a word the man says. It's not in his interests for Everton to ever sell, it's like a turkey voting for Christmas.
27 Posted 16/07/2011 at 11:15:54
If my girlfriend's brother gets on a plane and goes to Anfield, he's not a fan. He's a customer - he's a fan of YB (Swiss club) and goes regularly. But - at Anfield - he'd be a customer.
Most posters on toffeeweb, however, appear to see themselves as more than that.
28 Posted 16/07/2011 at 11:23:21
29 Posted 16/07/2011 at 11:07:50
Regarding are we investors by being season ticket holders, my view is no we are not. Now if you are a shareholder, that is different matter. I do fully agree that the AGM must be reinstated, and the board not just hold forums with selected shareholders.
30 Posted 16/07/2011 at 11:19:33
31 Posted 16/07/2011 at 11:28:56
32 Posted 16/07/2011 at 11:57:32
Very pleased to see you back !
33 Posted 16/07/2011 at 12:19:31
34 Posted 16/07/2011 at 12:22:03
It's only a matter of time but it will happen....No Stratergy, No Hope, NO FUTURE...
Kenwrong & his cronies will ultinmately be the DEATH of Everton FC
35 Posted 16/07/2011 at 12:28:12
Anybody think we'll see the headline...Everton SIGN N'Zogbia (...or anybody else for that matter !!)...No...me neither !!
36 Posted 16/07/2011 at 12:39:44
Frankly I am not interested in what Mr Elstone has said in his blog. Why? Because he didn't address the real issue that is the reason we have no money. He didn't address the issue (nor should he have had) that the Board does not relate any future to anyone other than themselves.
So once more, Dan, the point is not relating the operational status of the club which he is responsible for (no money etc...) but the fact that there is no apparent plan, no vision, no future direction OF THE BOARD.
Mr Elstone is employed at the behest of the board to carry out their instructions and manage day-to-day activities. He is NOT responsible for the direction of the club or its capital structure funding. That is the Board's role. If they haven't got a plan for the development and future of the club, that is not Elstone's fault.
Don't confuse the two; it's not semantics, it's responsibility ? who should be accountable? Right now, the Board are not accountable to anyone other than themselves. Their actions (or lack of them) are viewed by all.
Lastly, your point regarding a distorted view from the internet, if we go by the know facts (which Colin outlined well in another thread) one would have to say that the facts are damming.
I say again, just so you get it: Elstone is a manager, a front man and delivering, deflecting and managing the delivery of information that he is allowed to give.
He didn't answer the real questions in his blog; he focused on where the money is ? not where the Board wants to take us.
That's the question that needs answering and it's not an exit strategy; if that's all there is, then move over because the club's future is at stake.
37 Posted 16/07/2011 at 13:09:54
It made me go back and read Elstone's article again. What made me laugh/groan the hardest where the comments at the end of his piece.
All people claiming that BK is the best and how well we are run etc
Either club plants or sadly total blind idiots
One bloke says the comments below
am very happy with the way things are right now. I believe we have the right people looking after our club, yes we are not loaded and cannot spend £30m on a player but we have a v. good squad that is on its day a match for anyone. We could sell the club to sombody who could be another Gillet and Hicks, and say they will do this and that but not deliver and have us in a right mess. Although I do agree with people wanting to now exactley what we are up for sale for? All in all we are stable and 1 or 2 good additions could see us having a strong season ahead. In Moyes and KENWRIGHT I trust.
Utter complete fucking drivel
38 Posted 16/07/2011 at 12:14:23
39 Posted 16/07/2011 at 13:28:06
Mark from the PG has just been on Talksport again, another good interview highlighting the main issues and calling for transparency from Kenwright regarding failed investment and potential buyers - he's a very good representative of the masses and deserves our full support.
40 Posted 16/07/2011 at 13:49:31
Watched the pre-season against Bury and it was good to see the Blues playing well although obviously only a friendly and not really an indicator of the season to come, hopefully we will finish in the top 4. Did any of the other posters watch the game?
41 Posted 16/07/2011 at 13:49:48
As always, an excellent article and emphasising the point that, under Kenwright's reign, the constant theme has been no plan and stumbling from crisis to crisis, inventing things when the going gets tough (FSF) and mortgaging everything but the players (watch this space).
Elstone's response is typical of the attempts to silence any dissenters and unrest that is also endemic under Kenwright's reign.
I always had a motto which states "THERE ARE NO EXCUSES" and failure after failure to deliver anything is no answer to our problems.
The board should either start performing or get out.
In any commercial PLC, Kenwright would have been forced to resign following the deceit of the FSF pantomime.
42 Posted 16/07/2011 at 14:10:35
It was far too balanced towards BK and almost every comment on the site looks like it's been written by Elstone or a board member.
Hmmm...
43 Posted 16/07/2011 at 14:54:58
"That's the question that needs answering and it's not an exit strategy; if that's all there is, then move over because the club's future is at stake."
If they move over, who runs the club? We will have no board! People may be of the opinion that the current board is failing, but we cannot operate without any board at all.
44 Posted 16/07/2011 at 14:57:07
Excellent piece, Christine.... hope all's well.
45 Posted 16/07/2011 at 15:46:45
46 Posted 16/07/2011 at 15:52:25
How exactly would we miss the current board?
47 Posted 16/07/2011 at 15:01:49
The questions are: Where do we go now? If getting shot of the board is the only thing unifying us, what happens when/if they go? OR How do we remove a board if they don't want to go? If we do, who steps in... etc.
There's STILL so many unanswered questions.
David Thomas
For fucks sake get an article up there. It doesn't have to be long winded, you've stated clearly that you would like to see a more competent board. but this debate is screaming out for a Devil's Advocate and you seem to be as close as we have got. You are asking the difficult questions, but nobody seems to be answering with any degree of certainty.
Put them in an article, they`ll have to be tackled head on then. This is a massive issue and no stone should be left unturned.
48 Posted 16/07/2011 at 16:05:42
I see he was patronising us in today's Echo saying we are an 'ambitious club'. It doesn't take Einstein to work out beyond staying in the Premier League there is NO AMBITION at Goodison Park while that twat Kenwright is still in situ.
49 Posted 16/07/2011 at 16:15:49
I'm not arguing that we would miss the current board. I agree with yourself and many others that the board has fucked up on a lot of things in the past. In my opinion, some of the stick is OTT, but some of it is very much deserved.
What I was asking Christine is, if the current board move over, as she suggests, how does the club operate? Whether or not the board is useless or not, we do need a board of some sort, and unless Christine is aware ? or anyone else for that matter ? of a group of people who are waiting in the wings to take over the current board's position then I think it is very simplistic and naive to just say the board should just "move over".
50 Posted 16/07/2011 at 16:20:19
51 Posted 16/07/2011 at 16:11:04
I find Elsone to be a patronizing twat, but I actually feel sorry for him, because he's been left to take all the flak.
52 Posted 16/07/2011 at 17:44:33
Then they go over to Bury, Vinny O'Connor the reporter, who tells us sources within club confirm we are interested in N'Zogbia and Villa have offered just under £10 million but no offer from us appears to be made!!!
WHAT A JOKE!! Making us a laughing stock!! I take it then we're interested in Messi, Ronaldo, Rrooney but no offers! This so-called board are a JOKE!
SAD THING IS WE ARE WATCHING THEM DO IT TO OUR BELOVED CLUB!!
53 Posted 16/07/2011 at 17:44:47
Brian I too find him a complete arse but it's his job to be the mouthpiece for the board so has been told what to say.
54 Posted 16/07/2011 at 17:54:48
55 Posted 16/07/2011 at 18:05:48
I have been saying for ages that Coleman is just not good enough to play as a right back at Premier League level at this time. The few games he has played there he has been caught out on a regular basis. In my opinion, if he is to play, it needs to be further up the field.
I was not able to attend the Bury game so was interested to see your comment about his performance.
56 Posted 16/07/2011 at 20:01:43
Strangely i thought Geuye was ok nothing more but he did score 2 goals so gets the headlines, Osman was good and although Yakubu scored his movement off the ball was non existant. Bily was the pick of the subs he played a brilliant 50 yard pass to Beckford who shot narrowly over.
As for the lack of numbers Cahill,Rodwell,Howard,Barkley and Saha were not involved which says to me there is more to come.
Jagielka came over to the fans at the end, some nutter ran on the pitch and slid into the goal BEFORE the final whistle and Heitinga has a chauffer.
57 Posted 16/07/2011 at 21:17:09
For me, if Davey walks, I'd get the one and only manager,
Lemmie !! Can you imagine the team talk at half time. It's got to be a six two win. Can anyone think what Lemmie would say to turn things around.
PS I know him so be careful.......
58 Posted 16/07/2011 at 23:41:55
"We're going to sign commercial deals with x,y and z by this and that year. We'll be in such-and-such league position by this year. We'll have new owners by this time and a new stadium by this"?
It's just totally impractical to give out such a plan and it would be a double-edged sword for him. Imagine if he came out and actually said everything that everyone wants to hear, he'd be laughed off this site for feeding us a load of ideological drivel. How many times have we heard new owners at Blackburn or Sundeland or whoever come in and say "Europe is the target" and then make a complete fool of themselves when they are inevitably in the relegation places again?
What is so wrong with his three points? Buying and selling players to improve the playing squad. Moyes has undoubtedly improved the squad, league positions show that. We've outperformed Villa, Newcastle and Spurs (except for the last few seasons) who are realistically our rivals (sad as it is to admit). Then he's said that we're looking into all staidum and investment opportunities.
Whether you believe him or not is up to the individual but if he is telling the truth (which he probably is ? why would he not be looking to move the club forward, it's not like they're making any money anyway) then what more could he say on this point?
I myself found Elstone's post a bit vague, and the part about not meeting certain Evertonians a bit sketchy but I really am struggling to envision what he could have possibly written that would satisfy any of the fans without breaking commercial confidentiality, prematurely raising up hopes, or sounding like an idiot predicting all these progressive steps that he somehow hasn't bothered to take yet.
John Audsley (#37) ? what is so wrong with that post on the OS? Yes, it was a bit too friendly with Kenwright and the 'not for sale' thing but he is essentially right. We had a bad season last year and came 7th. An addition or two and a return of our big players to their best form will undoubtedly lead to a league improvement, meaning European football again. We are ? in comparison to everyone else outside the top 5 or ? relatively stable and we do not want to sell to another Gillet or Hicks. Why is this post so absurd?
59 Posted 17/07/2011 at 00:52:50
So you ask how would it happen and what would happen "if"
Ok, walk the scenario through, the board are starting to take personal flak for the state the club is in, the pressure to reply, the pressure to be seen as doing something as a matter of personal pride mounts. Remember, these are as human as you or I and would respond the same way when criticised, but when there is little or no defence to be made they realise that it cannot carry on much longer.
Focus will return to the chairman and questions asked as to his continued support. Remember we are all assuming the whole board are fully supportive of BK, I doubt that is reality.
BK steps down, as a result one or two of his "friends" on the board step down too.
We are left with the board seeking to appoint a new chairman and a couple of new directors.
Whilst not a complete over haul, I suspect thats the way it will happen unless a money bags is ever found ..
Who and when? that is still a decision within the board. Hence the pressure.. thats how change occurs
60 Posted 17/07/2011 at 00:54:38
It is impossible to get on to post any view, let alone a counter one.
This behaviour alone is corrupt ? I think they're crooks ? I really do.
61 Posted 17/07/2011 at 02:21:00
But, to me that is not the crux of the matter. The CEO acts on a day-to-day basis to manage the operational affairs of the company.
The Directors (taken from the Companies Act 2006):
The Companies Act 2006, when brought into force, will require that directors have to consider the impact of their actions on a much wider range of stakeholders.
That Act would require a director "to promote the success of the company for the benefit of its members as a whole", but sets out six factors to which a director must have regards in fulfilling the duty to promote success. These are:
1. the likely consequences of any decision in the long term
2. the interests of the company's employees
3. the need to foster the company's business relationships with suppliers, customers and others
4. the impact of the company?s operations on the community and the environment
5. the desirability of the company maintaining a reputation for high standards of business conduct, and
6.the need to act fairly as between members of a company
So, the responsibility for making long term impacting decisions is the Directors. We are, as paying customers (under the act), stakeholders and therefore should be considered in any such decision-making (we may not be consulted but at the least considered).
So, back to the task in hand.
What is the vision of the Directors?
How are we going to achieve that vision?
Who is going to make it happen?
When will it be enacted?
What is it likely to look like in the end?
What are the steps to making it happen?
These are questions not for Mr Elstone. But they are the questions that do need answering because they impact on the commercial stability of the club, the ability to fund and promote the club proactively and be seen as a club that has good, strong and credible leadership from a chairman and a board.
62 Posted 17/07/2011 at 07:17:22
Points like "we cant spend" 30 m on a player"
We cant spend £30 on a player can we????
and this garbage about "we dont want buyers like Hicks and Gillett" Some fans seem to have an obsession with this "careful what you wish for" approach. I DONT want anyone like that but if someone is interested in the club they should be welcomed then throughly checked through, lets be fair BK would certainly do that wouldn't he??
We are treading water at the mo, and have been for years
and the first point he makes "i am very happy with the way things are right now"
Erm, if that doesnt say it all nothing does
Utter Shite
63 Posted 17/07/2011 at 07:28:11
Yep, thats what all my posts on here have been about
A little balance would help,then at least it might look convincing
Its a touch unsavoury for me
64 Posted 17/07/2011 at 11:33:07
I agree that Elstone is not responsible for the direction the club takes and that he is the board's "mouthpiece" but, as one of my former bosses used to say, "Is he part of the solution or part of the problem?"
I think the latter because, if the everyday "CUSTOMER" can see the product they are buying is not what they want or doesn't meet their expectations, they will stop buying it. This, if the figures that are being quoted, 3,000 less season ticket holders, is what is happening. So Mr Elstone should be going back to his bosses and say we have a problem. He then should put forward his proposals for the future and then decide if he has the support he needs. To be fair to him, he may have done this but decided to turn up and draw his salary.
I don't level this comment at him alone; Mr Moyes should also be saying, "What's the plan, where are we going, how are we going to get there?" He is in a stronger position than Elstone as he can probably get a job easier.
As a season ticket holder, which makes me either a customer, investor, creditor or just plain fan, I seriously thought this time about not re-newing but the fan in me got the better. I can't guarantee that'll carry on forever.
65 Posted 17/07/2011 at 11:01:48
Remember, these are as human as you or I and would respond the same way when criticised... but, when there is little or no defence to be made, they realise that it cannot carry on much longer.
You miss the point that these people do not consider us as equals and so anything that we say or do is dissmissed in a very patronising way. So no, we do not all react the same to critisism, only to the critisism that those who we respect as our peers is given such credence!!!! You and I are not concidered as equals and so our ideals are dismissed as unimportant. That is the way that corporate minds view things.
The arrogance that these people have means that we do not count and neither do our opinions. When you realise this, you may be able to find other ways to irritate them but nothing more than that unless you have money, as this buys the seat at the table from which you may be able to broker your opinion, but don't even count on that.
66 Posted 17/07/2011 at 12:33:31
I was hardly appeased by Elstone's blog but he has been left to carry the can.
67 Posted 17/07/2011 at 13:21:57
Regards the long term strategy or "vision" of the club? Well, that's fairly obvious.
1. Don't get relegated
2. Tread water financially
3. Bust a gut to qualify for Europe and/or win a trophy in order to increase future earnings
I want a new board as much as the next person, but I can't help but think these articles that claim commercial superiority are a little rich.
Football is not a conventional business. Therefore, it cannot be contrasted against standard commercial entities. Moreover, I am yet to see any evidence that most clubs outside of the current elite are not in a similar boat to ourselves.
I read an article recently about the "low-risk strategy" of West Brom. It applauded their careful approach to spending and salaries.
If you really want a board that thinks about the long term, cuts the wage bill, and stops spending big for 10 years ? not 2 or 3 ? then you are really asking that we operate like West Brom in the present; ie, that we dance around above the relegation zone.
The future matters, of course, but so does the present. The question I have for the "vision" crowd is: What if the vision of a new board doesn't fit with the one you have? What then?
68 Posted 17/07/2011 at 15:27:30
Stakeholders... I like that better than investors.
(Sounds to me like the late Anita Roddick wrote the Companies Act).
69 Posted 17/07/2011 at 15:40:36
I don't understand the issues most fans have with Elstone. I have found him open enough and, when he speaks, he tells it as it is. He has often said we don't have funds etc. Can anyone say sepcifically where he has lied? Without it being your opinion to facts you don't have?
Christine ? many fans do ask where the money has gone; those fans just don't want to hear or maybe don't understand. Many financial reviews have been done, including mine, which show that we do invest heavily in the squad. The club is trying to get every last drop out of revenues to try and compete ? hence Anthony is right about us not managing à la WBA. Hopefully people will listen one day.
But ultimately there is one thing that sticks in the throat ? BK and the selling. He has apparently cocked up virtually every deal he has been involved in, in terms of this club and investment (he did get his mate Earl to buy in so ok... one deal). I don't think we gain from rehashing the past... but it leaves little trust in the current attempts to sell.
70 Posted 17/07/2011 at 16:51:42
The accounts show that "Other operating costs" totaled £23.8M in 2009-10. Do you know what these represent? Unlike most other line items in the accounts, it is completely unexplained in the Annual Report.
This number has risen from £1.2M in Kenwright's first year in charge, when it represented barely 3% of total operating costs. Throughout the 1990s, it averaged only around £1.5M per annum.
At £23.8M, that's an increase of EIGHTEEN TIMES in ten years!!! ? it now represents a whopping 25% of total operating costs, and presumably increased again last season (although we won't know that until January 2012).
What are these costs? What do they represent? How can 85% of trunover be going on the playing side if 25% is accounted for in these mysterious undocumented "Other operating costs'?
71 Posted 17/07/2011 at 16:23:17
What else do you call someone who pays money for something that has no guarantee of return...apart from an investor or a fool? The club considers buying young players an "investment for the future" and there's no guarantee of that happening. Something does not even have to have monetary value to be an investment. Why else would we use the term "investing time"?
Supporters spend their TIME AND MONEY. Not investors!?! For the love of Dixie...
72 Posted 17/07/2011 at 17:27:48
There's a huge difference. Consumers have nothing to show for what they spend their time and money on. Attend a match and it's done and gone...
Investors usually have something that is more or less tangible after putting their money down. It may appreciate; it may depreciate; it may at some point be worth nothing...
Most of the time and money most supporters spend is done and gone in a blink of the eye. It is categorically not an investment.
Now emotionally... ah, well, that's an entirely different story.
73 Posted 17/07/2011 at 17:35:26
You have a return when you buy a ticket - they let you in.
To invest (OED): "Expend [...] in something from which a return or profit is expected [...] for the sake of interest, dividends, or proifts accruing from them." Match-going spectators are not - imo - investors, although I of course agree with Michael that, emotionally, it's a different story.
Personally, I don't think it's semantics and think that definitions are important. Recently, Eugene Ruane (sorry if I spelt your name wrong, Eugene) said that the definition of 'big club' was important... he was told that it didn't matter how we defined it. Myself, I thought of "... cut the green wire..." Sharing, if we can, a definition of something is a pretty good starting point to discussion.
Probably sounds pissy, but... that's my view.
74 Posted 17/07/2011 at 18:49:50
Michael good question ...I'll have to go check...will get back to you.
75 Posted 17/07/2011 at 19:01:35
In 2010 staff costs were 57% of operating costs, and including player depreciation this goes to 75% of operating costs. (excluded player trading).
Of revenue staff costs are at 69%. I'm going to repost a line I wrote in that review if you'll indulge me:
It's a business that is in the business of winning. It has to do whatever it can to compete and win, and runs a balancing act, which is really not about making money , but more about ensuring they are covering the debt that trying to compete requires and do not allow the club to face financial ruin. This is a significant difference. And if anything that is Bill's fault. If he wanted to drive a profitable business then forget about us having the likes of Baines and Fellaini in the side, or keeping Arteta. In fact we could probably have a very nice "healthy" business playing championship football every weekend.
76 Posted 17/07/2011 at 19:28:20
How can it be so high - well without the player trading income our costs were a lot higher than our revenue.
77 Posted 17/07/2011 at 17:35:51
It's not an investment per'se, it's gambling...which makes us all fools. But, again...you can be sure a lot of tangible assests around the club were paid for or financed on the backs of supporter money. At the end of the day, cut gate receipts by %50 and we'll see who's really investing, gambling or speculating etc. on this club. It's the supporters, backed by the banks. It will never happen (supporters boycotting in mass numbers), because Evertonians are loyal to a fault and we just don't like doing that...but that fact is used every day against us; it's a guilt trip in so many ways
So much of this nonsense is summed up in Little Britain. Every time a section of supporters pipes up about things, Andy (Bill) tips his wheelchair over and claims he was pushed...it's getting very, very old. How much longer are the Blue Lou's going to put up with it? Forever, apparently.
I found it interesting that in a recent article a writer claimed to know someone that said Bill was "disillusioned" with all of this. Well, since he's such a big Blue, how does he think we feel then? Yeah Bill, we're disillusioned too...with you. How many more times are you going to tip over the wheelchair when we set our sights higher?
I don't hate you, I wouldn't even go so far as to say I dislike you. I just don't enjoy knowing that Everton is basically someone who can't afford retirement so continues to work...all the while knowing they're one broken hip away from being destitute.
78 Posted 17/07/2011 at 19:33:32
79 Posted 17/07/2011 at 19:48:39
80 Posted 18/07/2011 at 10:57:23
The key will be loss of personal value, they have NO reason to change or even consider the fans so its got to hurt them in the pocket or shame them in the press.
Disillusioned Bill? Try Disgusted... thats how I feel
81 Posted 19/07/2011 at 10:07:35
Trouble is, Elstone is just a paid yes-man and Moyes for whatever reason (maybe 65,000 reasons a week) have never spoken out. To my mind, if it was a straight choice of Moyes or BK, I'd say Moyes would win hands down.
82 Posted 19/07/2011 at 12:05:54
In business, it's often the internal dissent of a single member of a board that causes the rot to set in.
In the absence of any buy-vestor, the only way there will be change will be when someone has had enough or wants out / sell off of shares.
The change in the balance of power could easily change if the Earl / Green / Kenwright friendship soured. (I think it has to the point where there is no longer any financial backing, support or underwriting.) So it only takes a good offer for someone's shares.
There are no friends in business.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.
1 Posted 16/07/2011 at 07:58:15
Moyes works miracles in my opinion, but the prospect of what happens if he walks, or can't continue to squeeze maximum effort out of a small squad when injuries/suspensions strike is very worrying.