Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
A Message From A Very Concerned Evertonian
By Chris Kearns :: 06/08/2011
52 Comments (»Last)
The Problems of Everton FC
I am writing to express my opinion on the current problems surrounding my favourite team, Everton. For weeks I have read the fantastic work being done by certain fans groups, now collectively known and trading as the Blue Union. It is not my intention to recycle the points they have already made very articulately, but more to offer my take and hopefully provide a clearer picture of the problems as a whole, broken down into sections.
I think, when looking at Everton, the problems can be broken down into six sections, some more important as factors than others. I will now discuss these in the order I consider a priority:
The Fans
I believe the Evertonians I sit with, week-in and week-out at Goodison Park, are the biggest asset the club possess. They are relentless in their support, they travel up and down the country to watch their beloved team, and they are an ever-present wherever you find the Everton badge. That?s the positive?
The negative is that they are also in my opinion the biggest problem facing this club at present. I am 22 and have not been watching football long enough for me to see Everton win anything. However, about 90% of the fans around me at the ground are older and have seen us win trophies and league titles etc. I ask, if this is the case, why so many also are happy to go along with this current regime?? Why no ambition??
The club has no money, no status, and at this moment in time is a complete embarrassment to its extremely loyal fanbase due to the people charged with running it. Therefore, why do we sit and do nothing?? Things need to change and we need to change them! If we continue to accept what is going on, then all we are doing is abusing the history of the club that we all claim to love so much.
I appeal to the fanbase as a whole to find your voice in the first home game of the season because enough is enough. It is time the board were removed by force if necessary through the pressure the voice of the fans can provide. Do not let your team down!? you seldom do!
The Chairman & The Board
In this article I will not be listing what Bill Kenwright and the Everton Board of Directors have done wrong over the 11 years of their tenure. The list is too long, I can't be bothered, and we all know it off by heart.
I will however say that as a whole, this chairman and Board has taken on a club that is far too big for them. They?ve taken on a manager that has been far too successful for them, and they are attempting ? through the puppet that is Robert Elstone ? to take on a fanbase that has had enough? In answer to your recent blog, YES, I DO EXPECT you to answer to the fans that want your job? regardless of whether they want your job, they pay your wages, you pompous goon!
My appeal in this section is to Bill Kenwright. I don?t believe the club has been up for sale. I think you are asking too much for the club and I think the only reason you?ve been here 11 years is because you have mysteriously been given the tag as ?one of us? or an Evertonian. If you are an Evertonian, for the sake of this club, you have to let us go! I'm actually begging you on this point! And I hope you read this.
The Manager
Now I come to the point that we all seem to be afraid to make. Before I start this section, I want to stress that I like David Moyes and I wish he was working under different circumstances? However, he isn?t?
Much like the fans, there are a lot of positives to take from David as manager. He has created a team that is the best team we have had since we were winning cups and league titles. He has created an ethos of hard work at the club and I don?t doubt that he works incredibly hard himself. Again that is the positive?
I do also though have a number of problems with David. The first is that I believe, much like when Tony Blair was in charge of the country working with George W Bush, that Moyes is Kenwright's puppet. Where has your ambition gone?? And for those of you about to jump on me? look at his interviews when he took over the club and his body language then and look at it now!! It's terrible and his interviews are arrogant at best.
Two things for you: you are paid to answer those questions properly on a Friday afternoon, so please do so ? and, if you don?t like what's happening at the club, then open your mouth! You're quick enough to do it with referees or when Wayne Rooney writes something in his book that you don?t like, so why do you seem to have lost your voicebox when it comes to what is happening upstairs?
I also believe that David had the opportunity when we came 4th to go to the Board and threaten them with his position if they did not find the investment to take this club forward. He failed to do this and we failed to move forward.
I don?t like the silence we are receiving during this transfer window. I don?t really care what Steve Round has to say because he is not the manager, you are... so for god's sake will you or the chairman say something to the fans??? To use an old phrase, we would like to talk to the organ grinders ? not the monkeys! We expect both yourself and Bill Kenwright to take responsibility and stop passing the buck because it stops with both of you and these problems are happening on your watch. I appeal to the manager to speak out and demand something happens upstairs. This can't go on? you know it and we know it!
One other footnote on the manager: I am not scared of losing the manager? for those of you asking what we would do if he walked ? we would get another manager, like any other team in the Premier League! I like a lot of what Moyes has done but he is not irreplaceable? no-one is.
The Players
Now I come to the players. Cahill, Neville, Saha, Distin, Arteta? all players I love but all players who have criticised the protests taking place via their online twitter accounts.
I ask those players ? what are you criticising? It's not good enough that a club of this size has not made any signings. It's not good enough that we can't compete. And it's not good enough that you as our playing personnel think that what is going on is acceptable.
The fans you see around the ground every week, some of whom are spending their last pennies going to watch you play, are not impressed with what is going on in the boardroom. While you accept it and contine to pick up your £40,000+ per week, we as the fans do not accept it and ask you to refer to our moto, Nil Satis Nisi Optimum ? which I think used to roughly translate as "nothing but the best is good enough" ?what a joke hey? For those of you who don?t know, you will find it at the bottom of your badge on your training kit!
To Phil Neville, I want to tell him to stop telling us everything is fine, dandy and great because it blatently isn?t. You might've won everything at Manchester United and be looking forward to retirement but some of us will still be with Everton after that point and we want to win things ourselves. We are not a charity? we are a football club much like the mighty Man Utd and I for one expect our objectives ? regardless of how ambitious or unrealistic ? to be mirroring theirs. If you don?t strive for the top, what's the point in striving at all??? Which brings me nicely onto my next point:
Yakubu, Anichebe, Arteta (at times) and Bilyaletdinov? you are in a very privileged position to be playing for our football club and ? if what I am hoping happens with regards to a shift in the Board and a shift upwards in our ambition ? then your mental attitude is unlikely to be tolerated. Yakubu and Anichebe particularly, you have very good attributes but for professional footballers you have two of the worst mental attitudes I have ever seen.
Anichebe: you are a big lad? you fall over when the wind blows? get a grip of yourself and man up.
Yakubu : you are now the fattest I have ever seen you despite getting in good condition at Leicester. You should be ashamed to be picking up your wages. You're fatter than the lady that serves me in Gregg's. Get on a treadmill, you plonker, because we need a forward and you are capable. Some of the fans have lost their jobs in this economic crisis and you think it's acceptable to roll onto Goodison Park off the bench like you did last night against Villarreal? it's embarrassing! We deserve better!
My appeal to the players is to follow up what I have just said and wake up and smell the roses. We support the players fully and in return we ask that you support us. 40,000 fans can't be wrong on such a big level! Remember, they love the club and they have no alternative motives. It's cheaper for them not to go at all ? so listen and respond!
Public Perception
My last point is in relation the the terrible, hurtful, demeaning public perception of a club which was once at the forefront of English football. People see us as underdogs, hard workers, punching above our weight? Harry Redknap actually said last night that the only big club to have not spent money in this transfer window was Spurs. CHOKES AND COUGHS!!!!!
It's not his fault either? he wasn?t being rude? it is the perception we have allowed ourselves to become attached to.
In summary of this article, my closing statement would be to say that, unless the other factors change and very quickly, there is no chance that this one will in the near future.
The Fans, The Chairman & The Board, The Manager, The Players? we all have our part to play in this ? some drastically more than others. Do what you need to do for the love of the club. We need change on all fronts and it has to happen NOW before it's too late.
Your comments as fans would be appreciated!
Thank you!
An Extremely Concerned and Disillusioned Evertonian
Reader Comments (52)
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2 Posted 06/08/2011 at 21:24:04
You have articulated what a growing number of supporters are feeling, the club is bigger than all of them, and the current custodians are letting down the history and fabric of the club and it's fans.
Moyes is happy to "manage" on his £60,000 a week, happy in the knowledge that he is somehow the victim in the lack of money being given to him, and happy his reputation is intact with usual the media pundits saying what a great job he does within his finacial restictions, but have any of these "experts" ever studied a Moyes team and how they actualy play, how sterile, unimaginitive, and ineffective a Moyes team is.
They are, to a man, in it for themselves, their bank balances, cars, houses, holidays, wags, jewellery,etc etc.
THEY DO NOT GIVE A SHIT WHAT WE, THE FANS, THINK.
3 Posted 06/08/2011 at 21:59:16
4 Posted 06/08/2011 at 22:02:52
5 Posted 06/08/2011 at 22:09:40
iam just as fed up as you and demand answers to where my money is going.
6 Posted 06/08/2011 at 21:50:19
Last night, genuine supporters where ejected from the stadium for voicing their concerns in the form of a flag protest, my response to that is to organize a huge flag protest at the Blackburn away game. He might be able to stop it at Goodison but he can't do nothing about it at somebody else's ground.
8 Posted 06/08/2011 at 22:22:29
Also please don't refer to those who don't join the mob as lacking in ambition; loaded with realism is equally correct. We won trophies previously because small teams could, they can't post Premiership and I'm afraid that you will never see Everton win anything again unless we get a benefactor like City or we miraculously produce a string of Academy stars to match Beckham, Scholes, the Nevilles, Butt and Giggs.
My own belief is that from now on we are playing for at best European qualification but not Champions league with a miniscule chance of FA Cup success unless the top 4-6 stop entering full strength sides.
To believe that what we see now may be as good as it will get isn't negative, it is a fairly realistic and possibly over positive assessment of the current situation that Everton are in and an acceptance that being in the top 3rd of supposedly the top league is not a bad achievement for a resource strapped club.
Believing that Everton can somehow magically become better than we are now is like a Tranmere fan saying they are lacking ambition and should be in the champions league or that I should do better (at least be Prime Minister) when it is obvious that neither of us has the resources to achieve this state and realistically never will.
I devour the comments here and on other sites for firm ideas on how Everton achieve Nirvanah status without a pot to piss in and see none only rhetoric. Remember that far more likely than us becoming more successful is that we become less so and there is no bottom to where we can sink.
We claim to support Everton and yet when we get into real trouble (as we are now) we abandon them. The worst thing is that we ridiculously believe that change has to be for the better, it very rarely is especially at Football Clubs.
I've just had work done on my house in Horsham, the Glazier was a one-eyed West Ham Fan and the painter and decorator a Gooner. They were both staggered that Evertonians can whinge about their board and manager and see us as a fantastic truly club based set up which we in reality are not.
9 Posted 06/08/2011 at 22:09:03
Point by point I agree with your article, particularly the one about fans voicing their displeasure.
The tyranny of distance has put a stop to me physically attending the holy ground. That does not mean my passion for the club is in any way diminished. If anything, as my dear long suffering wife and family will attest, it has increased.
Without delving into the boards inadequacies which have been done to death already I will concentrate on the playing side of things.
Our fans used to be known for their appreciation of good football. I am puzzled at why they accept what can only be described as boring unimaginative rubbish dished out by a totally negative manager and his equally defensive coaching panel of clones.
It is depressing to see every player haring back to our own penalty area at the least sign of danger. I also wonder why our modern day fans accept without quibble aimless hopeless hoofing.
In years gone by the manager and players would very quickly and vociferously be made aware that kind of garbage was most definitely not acceptable.
We used to be proud of our motto and woe betide anyone who did not at the very least try to live up to it.
Chris, I will close by saying that you have raised in me a faint stirring of hope that the new generation is starting to expect the same standards.
10 Posted 06/08/2011 at 22:51:32
The European ban didn't help our cause but ever since we have been a club in decline.
I have lived in various locations around the world and currently reside in Bristol. The public perception of our club is that we do well for a club with no money. We are NOT considered to be a big club by anybody other than ourselves.
Moyes is considered a genius and I'm constantly reminded how lucky we are to still have him. Two Villa fans I work with were happy at the prospect of him going for the (then vacant) Villa job! Like you I don't dislike Moyes, however, he has took the money and not done the honourable thing.
One thing is for sure Chris and it is to this that I think you allude... IF YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE ALWAYS DONE, THEN YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU HAVE ALWAYS GOT!
We can only do what fans should do and support the team. We should have a go at those players who are not trying. The ones who are shite but try I can cope with. Fat arsed lazy dead weights should be shown the door!
I hope you get to see a bit of glory some day Chris. If it is to be then something has to give.
12 Posted 06/08/2011 at 23:10:25
I would say that this mirrors public perception and gives the Media perception of our pulling power.
Our games are against, The Shite, City, Utd, Chelsea and Newcastle. Its a good job they wanted to show the big teams or we wouldn't get a look in. How low we have sunk.
13 Posted 06/08/2011 at 23:50:26
14 Posted 07/08/2011 at 00:20:00
It was embarrassing watching Villarreal pass the ball around and through us for one of the most one-sided one-nil defeats I have seen at Goodison. We were outclassed in all the basic skills, for example, accurate passing and dribbling.
Our defence once again bailed us out and only a few players were worth paying as many were carried!! Barkley started very well but tired and drifted out of the game... he is an obvious talent.
Baines was our best attacker by miles and was the only one who dribbled and had genuine pace. As I have said on numerous occasions, God help us if he gets injured as we have not had decent cover for him since Lescott left.
I thought that most players tried their best and were exposed as not up to standard.
15 Posted 07/08/2011 at 00:30:56
I think that now the FANS are beginning to see Billy Liar and his yes men for what they are,
Phillip Green Bankrolled Bill Kenwright to get a massive return on DK,
Pity he wasn't around to put £30m into the Kings Dock, he would have got a much better return and we would be owned by Arabs Now -with Tevez, Sneider and Nasri gracing our playing fields.
KENWRIGHT you have led our great club into Oblivion Hang your head in shame.
OR HAVE YOU HAD A BET THAT WE WILL FINISH IN THE TOP HALF OF THE TABLE. AFTER ALL THAT IS YOUR MANAGER'S AMBITION and target for the coming season
16 Posted 07/08/2011 at 03:12:04
This does not mean I support the board. If we had a board that respected the fans, that did everything in their power to move the club forward, but didn't succeed, well, I'd be disappointed, but I would not loathe them.
But that is not the case. Our board are a bunch of dishonest, lying bastards, with no common sense and a total lack of respect for the fanbase that they refuse to communicate with. I loathe them.
One of the statements, or questions, that have been levelled at supporters of the various Everton protest groups is: "It's all well and good to say 'Kenwright out' but you have not come up with any viable alternatives. If Kenwright and Co leave, what then? What do you suggest we do to move forward?"
Well, this might be a reasonable point. I do believe some people have put forward different ideas on how to move forward, but this really isn't the issue (yet).
The problem is that the board and management do not speak to us, and are dishonest on the occasions that they do. We can not honestly put forward any proposals on how to move forward when we don't REALLY know what is holding us back. Sure, we have some figures from the yearly accounts, and we are all aware of the board's failings, but we do not know any other circumstances.
Maybe we owe money to certain peoples? Maybe we are contractually obliged to leave certain people on the board, maybe through some disgusting deal Kenwright sold his rights as a decision maker to a wealthy backer? The situation could be far more complex then we can possibly know.
Until we know the full details of our situation, we can not hope to put forward a truly viable solution, and that is the point. The groups under the title of the 'Blue Union' are demanding answers FIRST. They seek to enter into a dialogue with the board so that we can understand exactly what predicament we are in. If and/or when they succeed in this, only THEN will anyone be able to honestly step forward with a plan.
I wish them every success with their mission. I have had enough with the lying bastards that 'represent' our club.
17 Posted 07/08/2011 at 03:44:31
18 Posted 07/08/2011 at 05:32:48
I have mixed views on the protests, so let me play devil's advocate and offer a few thoughts. First and foremost, I'm not sure what is the aim of those protesting?
Perhaps the protests are aimed at getting the club to better explain what's going on behind the scenes. People want to know why other allegedly smaller clubs are spending money and we're not. That seems like a reasonable demand. It is curious. From the outside, we can only speculate.
Personally, I wonder whether Moyes has tied up the players he likes on high-value contracts, which means a big financial commitment for the club. Meanwhile, a club like Stoke, mentioned a lot recently in comparison with Everton, has lower paid players and can thus afford transfer fees (though the wages of those players are then lower than the likes of Arteta et al). This is all speculation.
What is not speculation, and what the last accounts make clear, is that all the available cash flow is going into the playing side of the club. It's puzzling that those with grievances about the financial management of club haven't mentioned the last public accounts much. One can disagree about the club's financial strategy for sure, but the accounts make it hard to claim any kind of willful neglect or any kind of redirecting of money away from the playing staff.
There is another line of protest, which has its roots in something like the idea that: "Everton is a great club, which belongs at the top, and anything less than this is unacceptable". It's not easy to clarify exactly what this line of protest aims at. On one level, every fan worthy of the name wants the club to do well. Some of us think the past is a guide to the future and brings with it a certain moral imperative, one that the custodians of the club are failing to uphold. Much seems to depend on. But it's not immediately apparent that this is the case.
The second club in a city of limited size, with limited potential for corporate support and little recent tangible success that could be marketed globally, is going to struggle to claim a larger piece of the pie. Perhaps the club could market its history as a form of highly consumable nostalgia. But the Premier League, as a saleable item, trades largely on excitement and key stars, not on narratives and history.
In short, the criticism that the management is settling for second best (given we all agree that getting more money is what we are really taking about here), seems ambivalent. The club should welcome suggestions that might lead to better management or higher revenue, but that would be a case of managing better, not negligence or incompetence.
Finally, there are also protests that are grounded in highly specific claims and charges. In this article, for example, we find 'I don't believe the club has been up for sale'. Another line is that Kenwright is taking money out of the club, or holding out for a big payoff. These kinds of complaints seem weakest of all, because they are the most speculative. They amount to the claim that management at the club are lying. But evidence here often consists in assertions, not argument or evidence.
One final example. The idea that the club ?is a complete embarrassment? to its fans, strikes me as untrue. I don?t live in Liverpool anymore, and most of the voices I hear suggest that Everton are a well-respected and well-managed club, doing well without great resources.
That?s enough for now. Has anyone produced a manifesto, detailing exactly how the protests are seeking to improve the club? If so, I?d love to see it.
19 Posted 07/08/2011 at 07:42:33
and leave others to reply to the rest.
/>Finally, there are also protests that are grounded in highly specific claims and charges. In this article, for example, we find 'I don't believe the club has been up for sale'.
The Inquiry into The Kirkby Project was told on Oath
by a representative of the Club that
THE DIRECTORS HAVE NO INTENTION OF SELLING
OR DILUTING THEIR SHAREHOLDING IN THE FOOTBALL CLUB.
So what can be less specific than that.
This board of Directors have continually misinformed
it's fanbase. 24/7 yeah. WOW signings?
20 Posted 07/08/2011 at 08:58:34
My point is that small clubs can't win now.
22 Posted 07/08/2011 at 09:59:46
I agree that neutrals wouldn't want to pay to watch us. We are dire to watch, however, what I saw of the Shite last season wouldn't draw me to watch them either. I don't think SKY et al care much about the neutrals. I think that they base their decisions to schedule matches on the fan base of the clubs. We are not marketable for any reasonon or off the field at the moment. Who would want to buy us?
23 Posted 07/08/2011 at 09:31:39
Martin, you seem to accept the fact that we have no cash and that that is ok because that is the way it is. Do you not think that we may be in a better position (brand and cash wise) if the club was managed better, especially from a commercial sense (e.g. we should be very well supported in at least australia, US and SA give current and past playing staff). The facilities at GP could be vastly improved. Customer services at the club leave a lot to be desired and to top it all off, the board do not communicate with the fans or shareholders. Given this, are you surprised that there is a groundswell of angry fans?
Andrew, see points above for a couple of things that the board could address. I personally am not accusing the board of any criminal or wrong doing, simply that they seem to have missed several commercial opportunities as well as made questionable decisions. I.e. we could have much better management.
From a personal point, one of the things that depresses me is our general 'style' of play and constantly playing players out of position. There is an obvious lack of pace and quality - yes I know these cost money but there is a general lack of attacking attutude, which does not cost anything and is simply down to coaching. If we could put a little more emphasis on creativity and not defend at all costs, that would make us more attractive to watch, hence get more TV games, higher gates and possibly more fans.
For this to change however, the manager would need to change in attitude or person, neither of which I see happening any time soon.
I sincerely pray to the one above that the reports of a swap dea, Rodwell for Crouc, is a very late April fools! If that beanpole joins us, we'll be back to playing Wimbledon ala '80s style all over again!
24 Posted 07/08/2011 at 10:42:27
I understand now what you mean, apologies for taking it up wrong previously. I guess I'm just fed up with all the SKY-driven "big" club rubbish. We finish 5th and there is a "big 4", we now finish 7th and they change it to a "super 6". Even the managers like Fergie and Harry Saggy-Chops have made soundbites about a big 6 recently. It's a sad indictment of the way in which we are being run, and in effect being marketed, that we are continually excluded from the media's list of the game's elite clubs.
I hate the way the media decide that there is a select band of big clubs, and they are all that matters. For me it began during Euro 2004 when they cried out for Rooney to be snapped up by Man Utd, that no club outside the successful clubs should have a top player. In times past, every club had top players; QPR had Marsh and Bowles, Sheffield United had Currie, Banks and Shilton played for the likes of Stoke and Leicester. It made for a less predictable, more open league ( the RS excluded, unfortunately).
I'm rambling a bit but I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are one of the big clubs, and the media and nation in general shouldn't be allowed to forget that ? and we need to get the Board to do much more to get that message out there.
25 Posted 07/08/2011 at 11:38:14
I think you have missed the whole point of that statement made in the enquiry. The enquiry was linked to the building of a new stadium, so the question was asked in relation to that. What the club said was correct, the potential move to Kirkby was not tied in with the selling of the club, therefore there was not a conflict of interests in building the stadium (e.g. if EFC was going to sell the club to Tesco's). Some of our fanbase is misinformed, as they take things out of context and make things up to support it.
Going back to Chris's original post:
'I don?t believe the club has been up for sale. I think you are asking too much for the club'
If the clubs not for sale, how can they be asking too much? Doesn't make any sense. Whilst I fully share your frustrations with the current situation, I challenge how protesting and removing the current board will put us in a better position. Without a board to run the club, we will essentially fall apart and cease trading within months and Everton Football Club will be finished forever. Now if you are protesting because you have an interim/new board available and want them to take control then that is a different situation all together. But I don't think this is the case. So my question is this. If you succeed in your protesting and get rid of the board, who will manage the club (as Moyes will certainly leave) and who will take over as the new board?
26 Posted 07/08/2011 at 13:23:29
Perhaps you should read the verbatim transcript of the Public Inquiry. Or read it again, closely. It was a straight question. It is not being taken out of context. You are the one who is misinformed.
27 Posted 07/08/2011 at 13:55:27
28 Posted 07/08/2011 at 15:42:46
,Kenwright is looking for INVESTMENT,
he is not looking to sell the Club.
He will not let go of the train set.
29 Posted 07/08/2011 at 16:24:37
30 Posted 07/08/2011 at 16:20:12
Steve, this has been stated on this website hundreds of times. Yet not ONCE has a single person provided any evidence to support it, unless of course you have some inside info about a buyer who offered to take over the club, and was told 'investment only'.
31 Posted 07/08/2011 at 18:55:21
I don't know what happens at EFC at board level but just try to look at the big picture of where we are and where we can realistically go from here.
I can stand the debacle of King's Dock or DK, I can stand to see lies and deception but to see Moyes play Big Vic, Rodwell, Barkley or Pip Neville wide midfield by choice I can't believe. I believe that Moyesy is brilliant as a buyer, a developer and a motivator but his selection is baffling at times.
32 Posted 07/08/2011 at 22:47:19
The only worry is how would any discontent manifest itself at the game? I'll be in the Lower G for QPR and will just swear at Phil Neville &/or Adel Taarabt for 90 mins. Therapeutic but...
33 Posted 07/08/2011 at 23:06:37
You think that a classic comment,
You should have read the post recently that said something along the lines of "The current board are parasites / a cancer to the club and we need them out of the club ASAP". When asked what there solution was they came back with "We should have an interim board to find investment / buyer" and then went about naming who should be on the interim board. Amazingly the list consisted of 3 of the current board.
You couldnt make it up.
The last three lines of your post 22 is what i have been asking for months.
34 Posted 07/08/2011 at 23:17:11
Was that a serious response?
You clearly have little experience of legal process.
I suggested, no insisted, that your interpretation of Elstone's response at said Inquiry is fanciful bollocks.
Is that classic enough for you?
35 Posted 08/08/2011 at 07:54:39
Chris, you are one of many contributors who's managed to sum up the utter farce that is Everton FC. I think what you said about us having "no status" strikes a chord. That's basically it. As fans we are like a down-trodden wife - no self-worth, no feeling of anything good. And Bill Kenwright is the overpowering husband making sure we stay that way.
When we see talent now like Barkley coming through, how many of us realistically think we'll see his best years? How many of us actually think "how long will we keep hold of him for before he's sold?" And when he is sold people will still praise Kenwright for his running of the club.
There is a massive feeling of inevitability about Everton. We know we are completely stagnant and nothing will change. We'll all keep going though and we'll keep coming on here and moaning about it.
New club motto - "No status, nothing's optimum"
36 Posted 08/08/2011 at 12:41:24
37 Posted 08/08/2011 at 13:03:18
However, the basis of this well written article is correct----successive chairmen/ boardrooms have demeaned our football club.
38 Posted 08/08/2011 at 13:23:35
http://www.keioc.net/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=108&cntnt01returnid=134
39 Posted 08/08/2011 at 17:47:54
Although I still don't understand how this can be generically interpreted as the club is not for sale? It does state quite clearly the context in which the clubs shares are not for sale (i.e. the proposed stadium move). I don't see how this can still be in force, when the proposed move has been scrapped?
40 Posted 08/08/2011 at 21:38:50
If only, eh?
41 Posted 09/08/2011 at 07:38:09
Harding died tragically in a helicopter crash and a couple of years later the cash stopped. Chelsea were in big trouble. Huge wage bills, ageing team and not enough money to pay for it all. They paid Di Matteo off in shares when he had to retire because they had no cash. They were about to do a Leeds. And then Abromovich saved them (again).
Di Matteo also sold his shares to Abromovich and made a lot more than if he had been given the cash in the first place - apparently he's a real gent so good luck to him.
Moral of the story is - big benefactor is great, but transitions are risky. Frankly I think Everton only became a big club in the 1960s because of the Sir John More and our relative decline in status since the early 80s (delayed for a decade by a fantastic team in the mid 80s) is entirely correlated to the removal of funding from that source.
Our only hope is a 1983/4 type miracle. A bunch of journey men and kids suddenly and simultaneously become world beaters and are bolstered by a couple of stunning bargain buys - Bracewell and Van Den Hauwe.
I have not been as depressed about our prospects since 1983 .....
42 Posted 09/08/2011 at 10:24:00
43 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:08:40
Why have we never heard anyone say, I asked about buying the club but the price is too high?
44 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:29:38
But as Mark has pointed out above, how people reach this conclusion without a shred of evidence is bizarre to say the least. I find it so ironic that the board is criticised for lies and making statements without backing it up, yet some of our fanbase are just as full as shit as the board.
People write beautiful, eloquent posts about the inadequacies of the board and how they must be removed as they are destroying the club, how they have no vision, no strategy, don't follow the clubs motto, how we were once great etc. But when asked the question 'so who will take over in the interim/long term once the board is gone?' it goes completely silent, not a single person can say what happens when they get what they are campaigning for.....
45 Posted 09/08/2011 at 20:35:34
Firstly, the agitation we are seeing now amongst the fans is bourne out of frustration. You know all the reasons; I don't need to repeat them. The first step is to agitate for change. Without that first step, then we we sit on our hands and wait... while the club stagnates... or worse. By most measures on and off the field, we are well in to a three-year decline.
Of course not a single person can say what happens when they get what they are campaigning for.... that's because NOBODY KNOWS!!!
They are merely fans like you and me who are doing most of the agitating. They have no power or say in the succession process. Even minor Everton shareholders will not effectively have any say, as the EFC voting rules ensure that the wishes of the larger shareholders will always dominate.
Various groups and individuals have made suggestions for the path forward, but the first step has to made; if it is not, then stagnation rules. If it is to be made, then either it is voluntary (no sign of that happening) or they are pressured into changing.
I hope and believe that the Trust Everton guys are coming up with something but, unless the case has been effectively made for change, then change is far less likely to occur.
46 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:22:26
47 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:20:08
What I find annoying, is those making up lies such as the club is not for sale, or the price is too high etc. when they have nothing to support it. KEIOC were clever in the way they put the news of the Kirkby Enquiry statements on their website and left it with the caption:
'Does this mean that despite his consistent claims, Bill Kenwright wasn't searching for investment "24/7" after all?
Evertonians, you decide.'
They knew full well that the statement did not mean that the club is not for sale. But they also knew that plenty of people would 'decide' that the words highlighted in bold were the only relevant part of the article.
48 Posted 09/08/2011 at 22:55:22
The case regarding the "the club is not for sale" statement is a great example. If you read the actual document then it says after this statement that the reader should refer to other inquiry documents which show that the "not for sale" line was highlighting the fact that there would be no conflict of interest because the board weren't looking to raise funds through selling shares in the club to Tesco, nor were they looking to dilute their shareholding via a rights issue with Tesco buying up the new shares.
49 Posted 10/08/2011 at 01:24:22
Keith Harris was reported as looking for buyers then his company denied all knowledge, why?
50 Posted 10/08/2011 at 03:59:00
51 Posted 10/08/2011 at 12:31:43
So its pointless to argue against a double negative, there is no evidence to support the claim that there hasn't been any interest in the club, or conversly there is evidence to support the fact that there has been interest in the club.
Half truths mean conjecture. The example of which was BK statement of three interested parties.. so, what happened? Why did it fall through? or better still to use your own maxim, why didn't any of those three talk to the press? Well perhaps its because when you enter into any business negotiation regarding the purchase or sale of any business you sign a confidentiality agreement. This means you may not disclose details or even interest before OR after with pain of financial penalties. I know, I have signed many of them.
So if the club wanted to make it known who had expressed an interest THEY could have leaked the information to the press? You know to show willing? No? Then they would be liable as would the interested party.
Such agreements can have a 3 year or 5 year clause to protect either party.
Moving on to your other points regarding the make up of the board. I have made it clear on other threads that the reality of change of any board is NOT a mass resignation. It happens when one or two key members move on, when a chairman is voted out by the board, when a director is not voted for.
I could name several good business people but your missing the point, its not my decision. So whats the point of saying who could be a board member when its a pointless conversation?
I am advocating change. Change of direction, change of business plan, change of people. I have on this site given a very positive inclusive vision of what the fans and the club could do.
I have also been highly critical of the board and the chairman for the poor commercial managment and for the motives behind DK.
If one is to blame and condenm those amongst us for conjecture as to what conclusion we draw on the facts available, then one also has to blame the board and management for its distortion of truth, threats and gagging of its shareholders and the use of a company law designed to ease red tape for small private companies in abandoning AGM's? If that was just a tactic to stop criticism during the Kirkby fiasco, then why hasn't it re-established them?
Everton FC is not run well and hasn't been for over 20 years. We have lived on a credit card and there is no credit left.
It cannot stay the same. Change must happen because without it we slide.
So may I ask the questions right back at you, Do you believe the performance of this board and its chairman has been good, bad or indifferent? Do you believe anything or everything you are told?
If you don't then what is your basis for either doing / not doing so?
You believe the Trust is the way forward. So do I.
http://toffeeweb.com/season/10-11/comment/fan/17213.html
I believe it is with the help of the fans. But all the indicators are that the club doesn't
52 Posted 10/08/2011 at 16:19:22
Remember when Moores was looking to sell Liverpool and we had that Taiwanese (I think) bloke on saying he was bidding, and then Steve Morgan came in saying he was looking to bid? Why then have we not had someone saying I'm looking to bid for Everton and build them a shiny new stadium BEFORE they speak to the board - no issue of breaking any kind of confidentiality agreement there then surely - plus, and I'm trying to think from a business perspective here, such a declaration could potentially give some kudos amongst the supporters and maybe even give some leverage if it came down to negotiating a price for shares if supporters like the look of a bid and clamour for the board to sell.
Do I believe that the club is for sale? Yes - why shouldn't it be. Kenwright has stated numerous times that he hasn't got the money to take us forward and is looking to sell (including at the start of the Kirkby EGM), Robert Elstone stated that this was his understanding of the position during the inquiry itself - but at present it looks like we haven't found a buyer - and I believe this based on what I've seen/read so far - if anyone believes differently then fair enough, I'm just giving my opinion.
Maybe instead of asking if the club is for sale or not, we should ask, if the club is for sale then why hasn't anyone bid? Maybe the club actually isn't for sale (which I personally doubt), maybe the asking price is too much (again which I doubt as I reckon that Kenwright would gladly sell for the price he paid), but then again maybe it's something else - maybe potential buyers/investors are put off by the fact that not only would they have to clear the debt and pay for the shares (which shouldn't really be a problem) as well as providing some funds for the manager (again can't see that being a problem - may not be as much as we would want though), but also the fact that they will also need to fund a new stadium before they could see any possibility of any return on this - and how much extra is that going to cost? To me, it's quite simple, without a re-vamped Goodison or new stadium which can help generate significant revenues, we'll probably never see a buyer for the club and at present, we can't afford to do that - a sad state of affairs yes, but an unfortunate Catch 22 we find ourselves in.
53 Posted 11/08/2011 at 00:25:39
The Greggs were repaid by Earl, possibly Green's money via BCR Sports (Earl had NEVER previously used such a mechanism - this one favoured by the Greens for a few other of their business ventures). The mass sale of major shareholders shares at the club (predominantly BK and Earl/Green) would need ratification at a Board meeting which is closed to all other shareholders. What if Earl/Green won't accept a lower price, which debt/broken business/lack of business plan would make appropriate, and are holding out for an unreasonable price?
54 Posted 11/08/2011 at 08:51:21
It's just the feeling I've got from the AGM's (when I could attend), the Kirkby EGM and the fans forums when people have asked him about money, finding a buyer, etc. He just sounds like someone who's sick and tired of all the slanging and questions that come his way as Chairman (personally I think that Bill is actually too niaive in a business sense to have actually taken on the job). As I said, it's just my feeling and, of course, I may be wide of the mark.
Forgive my ignorance, but where has this £120m+ asking price rumour/conjecture/whatever come from and what does the £120m+ relate to? Is it just for the board's shares, or all shares? has it come from another friend of a friend who knows someone who's a steward who spoke to one of the tea girls thing, or from a potential buyer?
Of course the mass sale of their sahres would need ratification from all board members - and some may indeed want a much higher price than others - but the board only own 69% of the shares - with BK having the most at 25% - that leaves 31% of "other" shares - so if someone was that desparate to buy the club and is being stalled by the board - why not start the ball rolling by buying out that 31% and becoming the biggest holding shareholder?
As I said originally, the biggest thing holding us back from being bought (and again this is just my take on the situation - as well as trying to think from a business angle) is our ground. Yes Goodison has given me, you - all of us - some fantastic moments, some highs and lows, the whole Everton experience - but it is not capable of generating the revenues needed to take us the next step - sad, but I believe true.
56 Posted 15/08/2011 at 09:52:43
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1 Posted 06/08/2011 at 21:16:19
I genuinely felt sad reading that sentence and wondered how long you personally will have to watch before success is achieved ... by the time you are 32 ? 42 ? Perhaps too many years will pass and your visits to Goodison will become less and less. Your predicament is of course shared by all younger fans.
I'm lucky in that as a 40+ something I have been fortunate enough to watch a far better team than the one currently on offer and thoroughly enjoyed the success of the mid-80's.
Beware - There will be those that respond to your post with comments telling you to "get real" or that in "comparative terms we're are doing well and that BK and DM are doing an excellent job".... God forbid, you may even get an "7th or 8th is good and that you should be satisfied with that".
Complacency combined with fear is a terrible cocktail.
However, if enough fans share your concerns then maybe,just maybe, there is hope for our wonderful club.