All things Moyes| ToffeeWeb

Mark Tanton
1 Posted 09/08/2011 at 16:00:55

His comments in the ITV televised friendly that his job was to "keep this Everton where it belongs, in the top half of the table" absolutely crushed me, and illustrated what a lot of us have suspected for a while. There is a real stagnation at the club we love, we are going absolutely nowhere.

Barry Earley
2 Posted 09/08/2011 at 15:59:56

Q1, Sometimes, but not often enough.
Q2, No. If we have no choice at all then so be it, but give a younger player with something to prove a chance in his favourite position before you play Neville/Bily/Heitinga/Anichebe etc out of position.
Q3, See above.
Q4, If he's given the funds then yes. If not then no-one will.

Steve Ashton
3 Posted 09/08/2011 at 15:58:29

You didn't answer the question 'who could do better'?

And the answer to your question is quite simply no-one: no-one would put up with the complete absence of funds ? this will be the 6th consecutive transfer window without a net spend.

So he may be one of the highest paid managers in the league, he is a negative bastard, and yes, he is conservative in the extreme... but until he decides he wants to go, we are stuck with the bugger. And for all his faults ? and I'm not a fan ? perhaps we should be grateful, because I really cannot see an alternative who would do what he does.

So lay the blame at the door of the people who are at fault and, when they go, then perhaps we can look more positively at the manager's position.

Mark Tanton
4 Posted 09/08/2011 at 16:14:32

I think a club sometimes gets to the point where a new manager can achieve more with a squad of players than the incumbent.

The message becomes boring and stale, and nothing is new anymore; even training is the same as it ever was for footballers with a longstanding manager.

Remember Moyes's impact on the sqaud when he became manager? I think we may be in need of it again.

Anthony Hawkins
5 Posted 09/08/2011 at 16:25:05

Under the current circumstances, replacing Moyes would provide a single season of emphasis followed by more of the same-old same-old there after. Whilst Moyes may at times have some questionable tactics no one can improve a team without additional funding.

The input has to change significantly before the output can change. Moyes is the middle-man and there is little point in replacing him until the input is changed.

Trevor Mackie
6 Posted 09/08/2011 at 16:30:31

I'm with you Sean he's a nice enough fella but so are countless other people, it needs more to lift this place.

I'm fed up listing his faults, people have had long enough to make their minds up.

For what it's worth I recognise him and Kenwright are the best "stonewallers" I've ever seen. Saying little of note they're never held to account and don't upset "middle everton".

The general acceptance of mid table "ish" existence without any flair or competitiveness is a real coup, I never thought I'd see Evertonians swallow it and don't really know how they get away with it, but the numbers don't lie. People turn up in their thousands, it's like a never-ending spring - admirable I suppose - but baffling to me.

I'd have Martinez if poss.

Tommy Kealy
7 Posted 09/08/2011 at 16:49:37

Sean i totally agree with everything you have written and would say no to al 4 questions.

I have not renewed my season ticket for the first time in years, not due to the fact that we haven't spent a penny as whilst this board are in place this will always be the norm but as i am completely pissed off with the shite anti-football we are forced to watch by moyes. The man continues to play a negative 4-5-1 formation in every game and continues to end a game with 6 defenders on the pitch. I'm not going to go into a rant about moyes as it just pisses me off thinking about him.

I don't buy into the who could do better bollocks as nobody knew moyes would do better than wakky walter (although it would have been hard not to). If we don't try a new manager then i guess we should just accept that its an achievement to finish in the top 10 and have 2-3 great wins a season and play some absolute shite non attacking football.

Mark Tanton
8 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:02:19

Martinez is an excellent shout. I'd have him here in a short.

Denis Richardson
9 Posted 09/08/2011 at 16:59:54

Much as I would love him to change tactics, play players in their correct positions, stop picking Anichebe in the starting XI etc - this is not going to happen anytime soon.

It would take something drastic for him to be sacked or quit - the question as to who could/would do better is not relevant as you can only look at this /if when the position is vacant. Althohgh saying that there would be a line around the stadium of applicants (like there would for pretty much every premiership club).

The manager problem is short term and IMO in the main simply a symptom of the management (board) problem, which needs to be looked at first. Until that changes, the record aint gonna change.

Re the questions;

1) No (I generally dont like watching TV frmo behind the sofa)
2) No
3) Yes
4) No, league no chance and cups only if we avoid any non-league opposition.

Denis Richardson
10 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:15:27

sorry, answer 3 should also be no!

Mark Tanton
11 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:13:42

You do have to question what Moyes has done with the money when he has had more than a couple of million of pounds to spend. We all know that there have been great signings, like Martyn and Artete, Pienaar and Radsinski. Even Phil Neville.

But there have been 'big signings' which have been utterly odd.

Per Koldrup - What the hell was so wrong that was packed off quickly?

Van der Meyde - Should have been given a real chance to shine but wasn't.

Yakubu - Berated and bullied into submission over his sometimes casual approach to the game, must a goalscorer really be a total grafter?

Fellaini - Played all over the place and in and out of the side

Billy - Did Moyes really know what he wanted to do with him, or was he a panic buy?

Ian Tunstead
12 Posted 09/08/2011 at 16:58:20

You sound like a spoilt child, ?I want I want I want?. Well I?m sorry; you don?t always get what you want in life. Life wasn?t meant to be easy and neither is football. You need to ask yourself the more important questions;

1)Would you prefer us to play entertaining football or be relegated?
2)or would you prefer us to play effective football and stay in the premiere league?
3)Do you think it is possible to play entertaining football with the players we have and without the money to bring in exciting players?

I also think Rodders needs to be told to track back because most of the time he is non-existent and doesn?t appear to be contributing anything to the team!

As for getting beat by lower league clubs, this is not exclusive to Everton. Man Utd, Liverpool and many more top sides have been beaten by lower league sides in recent seasons, that is football, know body has the divine right to beat anybody.

In answer to your questions:
1) Yes I enjoy watching Everton most of the time.
2) I don?t like players playing out of position, but if we have injuries and don?t have the money to bring in replacement it is what I have come to expect.
3) Moyes does play the young players; Rodwell, Fellaini, Coleman, Barkley, Anichebe, and I think Geuye will get a lot more games this season, if you are talking about players like Baxter and Silva, maybe they are just not good enough and Moyes knows best.

4) I think it I very unlikely any manager outside the top 4 will win anything, and if they do, it will be a one off occurrence probably because of the luck of the draw. Is that Moyes fault or is that the fault of the FA and FIFA keeping the money at the top?

David Price
13 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:16:03

so, not here to completely to slaughter the guy, well it seems you use more than just a cattle prod on the guys profile.
Top Manager, best we can hope to have at the club in our position.
Faults? yes he has,
Hard to replace? Absolutely.

Mark Tanton
14 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:23:51

Actually Ian you are the one who sounds like a child.

You think we should all shut up and stick with the status quo.

"Better the devil you know" is your message. You also seem quite happy with mediocrity. It is childish not to attempt to stop those who damage our club.

Trevor Mackie
15 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:27:32

Ian @ 12

Responding to your questions;

1. I would like us to play entertaining football, I don't agree it means relegation.

2. same question really, so same answer

3.Yes I do because once or twice we have.

Chris Bannantyne
16 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:16:30

My answers to the questions are pretty much the same as everyone else's.

Regarding his silence though, I'm wondering if its not so much contempt for the fans, as it is a protest at the absence of funds.

Or maybe the board have told him to avoid interviews, lest someone ask him an awkward question. I don't know, but I really don't think Moyes has contempt for the fans.

I don't see Moyes as a good tactician, and I don't see him as some kind of saviour as others do. The best I can say is he generally has a knack for buying some cheap gems.

I wouldn't get rid of Moyes right now, because of our terrible financial state. As others have pointed out, none of the really good managers would consider the job if they can't buy anyone. If the board offered the same wages to a new manager, there would be a few lining up for the job, but I doubt anyone BETTER than Moyes.

My cheif concern with losing Moyes at this time, is we'd probably replace him with someone like Allardyce, and to me he promotes an even WORSE brand of football, and I think would almost certainly see us relegated.

To sum up;

Is Moyes good enough? No

Would we likely get someone in at this time who would do BETTER? No - in fact I would suggest worse.

Phil Bellis
17 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:29:04

Q1, Do you enjoy watching Everton?
For the first time in my watching life, I actually couldn't be arsed going to 2 first-team games at Goodison last season (stll bloody went, though)
Q2, Do you like the constant playing players out of position?
Ridiculous doing it unless there is no-one else at the club specialist in that position; reserves? - used to love it when we threw Gabby or Lyons up front, though
Q3, Do you like it when Moyes plays his favourites instead of our young gifted players?
Only when his favourites are on form
Q4, Do you think Moyes will ever win anything?
Not unless he does the lottery or moves to Celtic

Sean McKenna
18 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:37:54

Ian, so you were happy watching us get tottally embarrassed by Villerreal? Or maybe the thumping by West Brom? Oh wait ? what about the Newcastle game... did you enjoy that?

There's a reason we only get 5 Sky games because neutrals dread watching us. I would support Everton no matter what league we play in, is it so much to ask to be entertained, Ian?

Stephen Kenny
19 Posted 09/08/2011 at 17:56:45

Q1. Yes, but not always because of the football. It's frustrating because I feel like this group could play a much better style if given the chance

Q.2 Absolutely necessary with a small squad.

Q3. Playing players through a bad run of form is vital for the loyalty and endeavour he gets in return. It can be frustrating when an obvious talent I.e. Coleman is ignored for half a season.

Q4. I think that if he put a few quid on the irish eventually he'd get something back.

He can be maddening and he does appear to have lost his spark but so would I under the circumstances. All he needs to do is let go a bit and recognize the talent in our side instead of worrying about the opposition IMO.

Ian Tunstead
20 Posted 09/08/2011 at 18:31:48

Mark

You say 'It is childish not to attempt to stop those who damage our club' ? It is not childish to me to stop people like you who are damaging out club.

I will however defend Moyes, the man that resuced this club from almost certain relegation which would likely have ended up in a similar situation as Leeds.

There are a lot of people and organisations damaging Everton but Moyes is not one of them.

I am not happy with mediocrity but that is the way the league is, money talks and we don't have any. The rich stay rich and will stay at the top whoever is manager of Everton.

Trevor
Ask Blackpool and West Brom how far entertaining football got them.

Early last season we tried to play football the right way but could not finish teams off because we don't have the players. The match winners that are the difference in those close games ? like Rooney or Berbatov or Drogba and Lampard or Van Persie or Fabregas or a Tevez etc ? we just can't afford. Saha is the closest we have but he is either injured or out of form from coming back from injury for most of the season.

Kiern Moran
21 Posted 09/08/2011 at 18:56:50

Q1. Yes, though obviously I am biased.

Q2. I think you have to be pragmatic.

Q3. I think Moyes picks the team he thinks will win on the day, he has brought youth players forward.

Q.4 Yes, hopefully.

Mark Tanton
22 Posted 09/08/2011 at 18:59:10

West Brom are forking out a lot of money for Shane Long. They play good football, they're planning on moving forward.

You can put WBA in with Stoke and Sunderland as clubs who will highly likely move past and beyond us.

David Crowe
23 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:05:04

He doesn't have to explain himself to us. It's the board that have to do that. He is doing a job and many will tell you that he is the hardest working manager around. This is just borne out of frustration at another poor summer. I'd like Moyes to be able to tell us everything from the inside, but to be fair, there probably isn't much to tell. He's just plugging away. He has NOT given up. Again, reckless statement borne out of frustration.

David Crowe
24 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:11:05

And also to people moaning about the style of football, David Moyes built the "success" we've had under him on the early seasons in which 1-0 wins were our only wins. It was drab at times yes but that got us the 4th place finish and is the foundation upon which our now high expectations are built. Were you complaining when we finished 4th?

I believe we hit a brick wall in 2008. We'd just finished fifth, got to the semis of the Carling Cup to narrowly miss out to chelsea and had a fantastic european run and were playing EXCITING, ATTRACTIVE FOOTBALL. That summer was when we needed to kick on and improve the squad again.

However, that summer was one of the grimmest I can remember due to the board's failings i.e. not getting Moyes signed up, Wyness quitting, no signings etc and although we got Felli in in a desperate attempt by Bill to salvage some pride, it was too late to prevent a shoddy start to the season and Felli, being young was probably not ready for the pressure on him and was average at first.

Let's remember Moyes and the players went on to get fifth and an FA cup final. How would we have done had that summer been handled properly? Bet we'd have had a better start at least. That summer was the beginning of what we see now. That was the glass ceiling we're banging our heads on now and it's only getting lower.

Granted, Moyes has made a few mistakes with money recently in Bily and Johnny and his tactics from OUR VIEW aren't great but I'm sure there's reasons behind every odd decision he makes and I respect him for not feeling he has to come out and justify himself.

If we lost Moyes we'd be in the championship in no time or at least stuck in the bottom half. A lot of managers these days are just egomaniacs who'd run us into the ground and leave as soon as the going gets tough. Not Moyes.

Paul Conatzer
25 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:35:27

All I can say is that, as I watched the second half of Friday's game against Villarreal, a disconcerting but familiar feeling came over me. Take away Baines's shot in the early going and Everton offered nothing. If the Everton is up or the score is even, I believe Moyes's strategy is to "hold what we've got."

As for Kenwright, if he had been chairman in the 60s think of the great names that wouldn't have graced Goodison, because he was looking for investment....

Ian Tunstead
26 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:38:42

Hahaha, Mark ? what are you talking about?

'West Brom are forking out a lot of money for Shane Long. They play good football, they're planning on moving forward.'

West Brom have been yo-yoing from Prem to Championship for years and that's not going to change because of the signing of Shane Long... wow!

'You can put WBA in with Stoke and Sunderland as clubs who will highly likely move past and beyond us. '

How many times have I heard people like you come out with this bullshit every single season and time after time Moyes finishes above them all ? even though people consisder him to have had a bad season and all the others have had good seasons... just imagine what Moyes could do if he actually had a good season, which he is due.

How dare you bring Stoke into this when you are criticising the Moyes style of play! Unbelievable.

By the way, just remind me where the great Martinez finished last season with all his great football?

Simon Harris
27 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:07:00

Right now Moyes IS the best man for the job. I can't think of anyone better placed to keep us in the top half, under the current circumstances.

His silence and demeanor is worrying though, and this transfer window could be a watershed moment in his career.

But all the anti-Moyes brigade should focus their attention on ousting Kenwright first. Get rid of Kenwright, and then as so often happens with new owners, the incumbent manager has a limited period to prove themselves or get shown the door.

I want Moyes to have the finances of a top 6 club to prove he can take us to the next level, or not - I think he's earnt that chance.

Mark Tanton
28 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:52:49

Ian West Brom appointed Roy Hogdson and steadied their ship massively.

They won't be a yo-yo club this season. Do you not remember how well they performed once he took over? Are you suffering amnesia or denial?

Mark Tanton
29 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:54:27

By the way, Stoke are massively underrated and lazily sterotyped by too many people. They probably play better attacking stuff then we do, and they're probably not half as one dimensional as us. It is misinformed and lazy to suggest Stoke play crap football. They are a good and improving side.

Gareth Humphreys
30 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:49:33

No I think we should sack him and find a manager with at least 4 manager of the year awards.
Now, where's that long list?

Trevor Mackie
31 Posted 09/08/2011 at 19:56:55

Gareth

When was Moyes voted Manager of the Year?

Mark Tanton
32 Posted 09/08/2011 at 20:07:51

I think we voted him our manager of the year Trevor.

Ian Tunstead
33 Posted 09/08/2011 at 20:25:13

Mark my opinion of Stoke is not mis informed i saw them with my own eyes when we played them off the pitch yet they beat us playing long ball tactics.

As for Hodgson ye great job he did at Liverpool, nearly relegated Britains most successfull club, i must be in denial.

Fran Mitchell
34 Posted 09/08/2011 at 20:31:47

I am not a great Moyes fan. I do however believe he is the only person for the job currently.

Look at clubs around us, they all have mix it up managers, who have 60-80% direct, percentage football. Those that try to play tick-tack football finish low down, see West Brom with Mowbray, Blackpool, Wigan and West Brom with Di Mattaeo. Compare WBA when Hodgson and his boring style came into play.

This is the fact at the moment. And I would have Moyes above any of Martinez, Poyet, O'Niell and anyone else who gets talked about.

I hate much of what he does, persitent moving players. Loyalty with out-of-form players etc, but this is where we are. Failure to prepare the team at the start of each season...however

WE are not Barcelona. We are not Arsenal. et we will continue to finish top-8 with Moyes. Not my ambition, but themost we can hope for while we have no money and feel every injury like an earthquake,

Mark Tanton
35 Posted 09/08/2011 at 20:45:31

Ian Gerrard, Torres and the rest simply dug their heels in and refused to play for Hodgson.

They wanted Dalglish and decided to tread on water and piss about until they got him. The entire footballing world thinks Hodgson was poorly treated there.

Stoke might be a side we're looking up at next season. We'd better get used to it.

David Thomas
36 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:03:45

Ian,

Why are you bothering mate? Think about it, you're trying to have a sensible football discussion with someone who thinks Stoke City are less one dimensional than Everton.

You might as well be talking to the nearest lamp post.

Ian Tunstead
37 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:00:07

No in all honesty Mark, I like Hodgson, I partly agree that the fans were against him from day one and didn't really stand a chance. But who did Moyes learn his trade from, people might say SAF but it was actually Roy Hodgson when in Italy. Moyes is like his apprentice so I think you are contradicting yourself by criticising Moyes but praising Hodgson.

I also like Stoke and Pulis because they don't give a toss what people think as long as they get the results. Pulis is actually copying Moyes by playing long ball and as he steadies the ship and generates money he is beginning to bring in more quality players to play a different style of football, all done first by Moyes.

John Daley
38 Posted 09/08/2011 at 20:38:48

"No I think we should sack him and find a manager with at least 4 manager of the year awards."

Manager of the year awards? They're basically just a patronising pat on the back from your peers: "i'm nae voting fae fookin Mancini, Wenger or any other doss cunt in actual competition wee us, an a cannae vote for me fookin sell noo. I'll gist have tae gie it tae some non- threatening wee stoogie ah mine as a bit ea 'chin up', ya ken?

A cv containing at least one actual trophy win would be much more impressive.

David Thomas
39 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:06:16

Mark,

By the way can you just remind us all again who bought Thomasz Radzinski?

Trevor Mackie
40 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:00:52

Ian

Instead of Blackpool and WBA why not Arsenal?

Oh we're not in their financial league - fair enough.

I rang the Villareal supporters club - they've never won fuck all and are lucky to fill their 25 thou stadium but beat us at a canter.

Couldn't quite understand the response something like :

"tell Ian - pees offf - yur teem heep off sheet - like paint dry, si?

Andy Crooks
41 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:03:03

Ian Tunstead, whatever one thinks of Moyes, and you and I have different views, you are correct in your comment that he has regularily finished above teams that some have feared will overtake us.Sometime, however, the "bullshit" as you call it will not actually be bullshit. Surely. no one can deny that while we stand stiil others are making progress. This season I believe we will be dangerously dependent on young players coming through and/or some unEverton type luck with injuries.
There was plenty of nonsense talked last summer but many believed that we had an excellent squad and predicted success. It is my belief that a different coach would have done better. I;m sure you don't agree. Fair enough.

Mark Tanton
42 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:13:02

David Stoke have a lot more in their locker than the shower of shit we've been subjected to for the last 18 months. They play two wingers, and usually two up top as well.

But of course you know it all.

Tony J Williams
43 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:04:23

It's Groundhog Day all over again. The Moyes haters telling us again of all the managers and teams that will finish above us. Yet to see it happen.

Martinez, fecking brilliant manager, last day escape from relegation....get him here now....wow!!

I am surprised Moyes is still here...obviously staying for the money...or maybe he believes he can get better out of this team. I would have left 3 years ago, when again no money was given until someone was sold.

Get Martinez in, we will suddenly be able to play flowing footy, as the players are all being subdued by Moyes and not being allowed to show their actual skill and talent. Martinez will make Anichebe the new Van Der Meyde (apparently he was a "big" signing dontchaknow!)

Tony J Williams
44 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:17:19

"Surely. no one can deny that while we stand stiil others are making progress" - How then is this solely Moyes's fault? He can only pick what he feels are his best players, if no more better players come in and the sides around us improve, how can Moyes be expected to stop our inevitable slide?

David Thomas
45 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:16:46

Well I know I know more than you mate.

When we played Stoke they had a free kick on three or four occasions throughout the game and had their goalkeeper come up to the halfway line and take the kick while every other member of their team stood in our box. The first instance of this was only 5 minutes into the match. Now if you don't think this is one dimensional then I don't think there is much point us debating anything to do with football tactics.

Also, just so you know for future reference, Walter Smith bought Radzinski.

Mark Tanton
46 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:22:54

Yes David, that much is certain. I could never reach your towering knowledge of the game. I'll be glad to debate with you no further.

Ian Adams
47 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:18:40

Come on folks, David Moyes is the best thing to happen to Everton in a long time. Yes he has his faults but do we help? He has no money to spend yet has secured the services of players we all want to keep, because they want to play for him and the club. Its Bill we need to change not moysie.

Mark Tanton
48 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:25:51

Ian I could never deny that Moyes has been unbelievable value and has rescued the club.

But a manager cannot stay forever, and his power is waning.

Brian Waring
49 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:26:28

Ian, with this group of players we can actually play football, they have shown they can. The problem is Moyes' tactics are safety first.

He needs to grow a set of balls, and let the lads of the leash.

Brian Waring
50 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:36:30

My reply was meant for Ian Tunstead.

Tony J Williams
51 Posted 09/08/2011 at 21:45:51

What attacking players is he holding back Brian? Arteta was possibly too deep last season but apart from him, whose flair has he smothered?

Trevor Mackie
52 Posted 09/08/2011 at 22:09:03

Tony J @ 42

I know you were going for irony but it just read as a good critique of why Moyes should be replaced by Martinez - well done.

Joe Bibb
53 Posted 09/08/2011 at 22:00:38

Shrewsbury, Brentford, Reading, Oldham, Sporting Lisbon, Dinamo Bucharest , Arsenal 7-0, Arsenal 6-1, only a few of the embarrassing moments under this defensive bore of a manager.

I don't enjoy watching EFC under Moyes I only go now because I love Everton more than I hate Moyes.

Who else would we get? Moyes is on £3.5 Million a year, the queue would be from Goodison to the Pier Head ? take your pick.

I love the myth about all the youngsters he has brought through. Moyes has been here nine years and only Rodwell, who is still a reserve really and sits on the bench more often than not, is technically the only one. People talk about Coleman, Baines... they were signings. Rooney was here before him, so where are all these young stars Moyes has produced? Oh yes, the reserve winger / striker Anichebe... sorry, I forgot about him.

Everton have been belittled by his constant 'We Have No Money' cries. We are on last on Match of the Day every week; ask yourself why?

We never get a sell out ? even in the Derby or against Man United again ? ask yourself why?

If Moyes has done so well and is the BEST Manager in the Premier League, as some of the posters here say he is, then why hasn't he won a Trophy?

A new attack-minded manager would put Everton back to where we belong. We are at this minute in time still the fourth most successful team in English Football. We are not Bolton, Blackburn or Stoke.

Don't let Moyes drag you down with his negativity. Don't put up with eleven men defending a corner in pre-season friendlies. Let Moyes know by shouting, booing or whatever it takes to get through to this arrogant man that he is NOT the Messiah, he is an overpaid failure of a Manager.

Tony J Williams
54 Posted 09/08/2011 at 22:29:24

How's that Trevor? The lad nearly got his team relegated and was regularly twatted by teams, some in lowers leagues.

Ian Tunstead
55 Posted 09/08/2011 at 22:30:37

Trevor What exactly has Wenger got to show in recent season for all his pritty football? He's getting just as much stick off his moaning ungreatfull fans as Moyes.

I wish you wouldnt talk about a friendly with Villa Real which is not a competitive game wait untill the real games start ay. I wouldnt say they beat us at a canter either, yes they had lots of the ball but didnt do much with it, it took a wonder free kick to beat us.

Andy
Is that Moyes fault that we are standing still and others are progressing or is that the Chairmans fault?

Marcus Kendall
56 Posted 09/08/2011 at 22:44:44

Martinez is a strange shout, apart from the fact he seems exotic and Wigan apparently play good football (though they had one of the worst goals for columns last season) I fail to see why people rate him?

The Premiership is populated with average to poor managers, Moyes is a level above average and were lucky that our main rivals (Villa/Sunderland/Newcastle) regurlarly appoint bad managers otherwise we'd be slipping down the table even more.

Poyet is the only manager I think who would move us forward because he puts an ethos of passing attractive football right through Brighton (from first to youth teams) and I think thats what many peoples gripe about Moyes is that he plays percentage football and not the free flowing football we (the non-pragmatists) desire

problem with my theory is I doubt Poyet would even be on Kenwrights radar, we;d end up with Dave Jones and then we would be up shits creek

Trevor Mackie
57 Posted 09/08/2011 at 22:31:42

Tony J

Ignoring the fact it's a minor miracle keeping Wigan in the Prem the other stuff is very thin ice relating to your hero.

I had the opportunity to see his transformation of Swansea a project which remarkably has seen them reach the prem on his foundations.

His transformation of Nzogbia after a failing stint at Newcastle - astounding.

The fella makes a difference in a positive way - he may not take us higher than 7th but if I may quote your good self:

"Get Martinez in, we will suddenly be able to play flowing footy, as the players are all being subdued by Moyes and not being allowed to show their actual skill and talent."

marvellous.

Trevor Mackie
58 Posted 09/08/2011 at 22:54:03

Ian @ 53

You don't really want me to quote Wenger's first 10 year record against the Moyes record - do you?

Bearing in mind the Emirates stadium and all that goes with it including complaining about being top 4 every year is based on it - not a good idea.

Gooners don't know they're born.

David Thomas
59 Posted 09/08/2011 at 22:59:32

Well its near the start of the season so i have been waiting with baited breath to see who this years manager would be.

Martinez seems to be the guy for this season that we should instead of Moyes. I was going to predict the name would be Lambert. However, i am sure Lambert will be mentioned if N City win a few games this season.

I remember it was Xmas time last season and we were being told it had to be Holloway or Coyle or Di Matteo as all of those managers were going to finish above everton and Moyes was going to take us down.

Oh well at least we know now we can expect countless Martinez threads until the end of next season when once again we finish well above Martinez and then it will be onto the next candidate.

Trevor Mackie
60 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:10:59

David

It's a fair shout, I own up to being a Martinez advocate from his Swansea days - due to seeing some games and speaking to their fans.

I'd listen to shouts from anyone who feels good reason for nominating another - it's all a gamble - Moyes might win the Prem this year.

Are you smirking?

Pack it in - it's possible.

Brendan McLaughlin
61 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:00:43

Trevor #56
Wenger took over a team that had won the premiership a few years earlier. Without replacing any of the back 4 he went on to regain the title. When he had to replace the "old guard" it all went pear-shaped & Arsenal haven't had a sniff of the title ever since.

Moyes took over a team which were battling relegation every season & transformed them into a "top 5/6/7 side!

Are you seriously saying Wenger has had a bigger impact?

Tony J Williams
62 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:06:22

Good editing of my statement there Trevor; however, I lost interest in your post when you named Moyes as my hero.

He is very far from it but, like a lot of posters on here, if I don't agree with you I am an apologist etc etc.

However then, in the same vein, your hero led Wigan to a 9-1 defeat by Spurs. The defeat was a club record for Wigan in the 31-year existence as a league club. Some other results in the league. 2009, beaten twice by Man U 5-0, Chelsea 8-0, Bolton, Portsmouth and Arsenal 4-0. Last season, Man U 4-0, Chelsea 6-0 Blackpool 4-0 & 3-1, West Ham 3-1, Arsenal 3-0 and Sunderland 4-2.

Yeah fecken genius manager him isn't he?

Ian Tunstead
63 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:14:09

Trevor, I said in recent seasons. This debate has been done to death in the past about Wenger, how most of his early success was down to a defence that he did not sign.

But with teams outspending Arsenal, he is struggling to keep up and, if he loses a couple of key players this season and fails to qualify for the CL, who knows, we might see him struggle to stay in the top 6. All this and he can still offer the big wages, attract the best young talent and still spend more in the transfer market than Moyes.

Brendan McLaughlin
64 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:25:11

The Moyes boys are hunting in packs tonight!

Trevor Mackie
65 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:23:08

Ian and Brendan if I was asked to choose between Moyes and Wenger to take Everton on for the next 10 years I'd of course choose Moyes his qualities and proven ability at this level can't be knocked.

If I wanted to go beyond this level and play football I'd probably give Wenger a shot.

Tony J, don't know whether Martinez is a genius or not. I do know I'd like him at Goodison - record defeats eh? There's a thought!

Tony J Williams
66 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:53:02

Record defeat?..didn't realise Moyes was in charge when we lost 10-4 to Spurs?? I do know he was in charge when we got the record of 7 straight wins in Europe (albeit somewhat detracted by record defeat of 5-0 by Benfica)... Never mind.

Trevor Mackie
67 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:56:46

Arsenal (coughs like Eric Morecombe)

Tony J Williams
68 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:57:58

Arsenal? I think 10-4 beats out 7-0....I'm sorry, you are referring only from when Football really started with Sky...silly me.

Brendan McLaughlin
69 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:55:14

Actually Trevor # 63 that's quite perceptive.
We ain't going beyond this level for some years yet until we get serious investment. So let's keep Moyes where he is & let him keep us where we are until, with adequate funds, he proves the "apologists" or the "bashers" right.

Tony J Williams
70 Posted 10/08/2011 at 00:07:03

The worrying part though Brendan, is that his best, alongside with no investment into players at all, may take us down.

How many more years has Saha, Neville, Osman, Hibbert, Arteta and Cahill got in them? That's six of the first team. It is worrying times to be an Evertonian.

Andrew James
71 Posted 09/08/2011 at 23:50:32

I love the way Mark Tanton has managed to avoid admitting he made a big mistake by claiming The Rad was a Moyes signing. Once he said that he made himself look a clown.

His point about The Yak was also garbage as he conveniently overlooked what would have been a career ending injury once upon a time and the fact that Moyes managing The Yak when he was fit gave us 21 goals in circa 30 games.

Fellaini has only been out of the side when either suspended or injured. When fit and ready, he's in.

Van Der Meyde - when was given the chance he was clearly unfit

Then come his strange omissions as far as Moyes bargains are concerned: Coleman, Cahill, Lescott, Kilbane, McFadden, Johnson and Bent. All players we have either bought for a steal or bought for lower amounts and sold at a profit.

Flawed logic Mark and you stitched yourself up early on in the game with the Rad comment. Poor form.

Trevor Mackie
72 Posted 10/08/2011 at 00:06:40

Tony J this is so funny I'm with Mark Twain "lies, damned lies and statistics" so I'm never impressed with numbers preferring my eyes to make judgements.

I'd forgotten about that one - I was thinking of the other humiliation under Moyes at GP the 6-1 whipping, you're a bit of laugh when you get excited the deficit of 7 goals might trump your 6 goal deficit though - do you play darts?

Brendan are you familiar with the phrase "self fulfilling prophesy?" or know about the lemming?

Andy Crooks
73 Posted 10/08/2011 at 00:06:54

Ian, no doubt, it's the chairman's fault that we are sitting still. Here's something that bothers me, though: it seems to have become accepted knowledge that David Moyes has achieved over the last ten years something that no-one else could have done; he has not. He has kept us in the Premier League, he has produced some excellent football, but has never been consistent. There has been plenty of unpalatable dross.

Who can say what might have been achieved over the last ten years with someone else?

We are stuck with the board and we are stuck with the coach. Frankly, Martinez would not be for me... but I will not accept that David Moyes is the best that £3.5 million a year can buy. It's gone stale at Goodison Park. In my view it would be better for Everton and better for David Moyes if he were to go. His reputation has peaked.

Brendan McLaughlin
74 Posted 10/08/2011 at 00:13:47

Tony # 68
Well according to some miserable buggers Moyes will keep playing Neville until he's 82! But I take the point. As somone said in an earlier thread we are an ageing rather than maturing team.
Anyway good luck with the house-hunting & marriage arrangements etc & if you need any advice on this ....DON'T FFS ASK ON TOFFEEWEB!!!

Trevor Mackie
75 Posted 10/08/2011 at 00:25:18

Gotta go lads, keep trying.

Brendan McLaughlin
76 Posted 10/08/2011 at 00:27:17

Trevor # 71

Was actually agreeing with you but have you ever heard of Howard Kendall?

Tony J Williams
77 Posted 10/08/2011 at 00:36:07

Biggest defeat = Largest amount of goals scored against you.

Biggest Deficit = Well ...biggest deficit.

Not excited at all Trevor, just indicating your incorrect point. Then again, like a lot of people who have been proven wrong, they will either try to insult people or try and make a big joke of it.

Never mind lad, you keep trying too.

Steve Moore
78 Posted 10/08/2011 at 01:17:18

Moyes has done a fantastic job with no funds, I'm amazed there are people out there who want to get rid. Sometimes Everton's football has been brilliant in the last few seasons, unfortunetly after a great performance the following week watching Everton can be like watching paint dry. However I am a Toffee, I love Everton FC and I will support them each and every game. We will win some, we will loose some, but hey that's just life, and I can still dream that it won't be too long till we see some success again. I have enjoyed Ian and Mark's little to and fro.

Gavin Ramejkis
79 Posted 10/08/2011 at 01:24:25

Q1. Not often enough and reducing as time goes by
Q2. No, never have, never will
Q3. No, but temper that with only if they are ready not just to be slaughtered for the manager and chairman's failings
Q4. Besides the token LMAs not a hope, not ruthless enough or willing to change his one trick pony gameplan

Fran OBrien
80 Posted 10/08/2011 at 02:11:20

To address the heading 'All things Moyes', As manager he must be happy with the squad he has ? he must be. If he wants a certain player, he never says publically ? usually stating that he does not comment on other people's players. This does my head in ? if you are afraid to ask for something for fear of being refused or upsetting someone in your business, you should find another business.

His players are happy to go along with his policy, they get their game with no competition. Then, if a new kid comes through the academy and shows well, another team will step in a sign him with the prospect of winning a trophy or European football. (This is history repeating itself). Moyes will sell him to bring in some new blood and we end up with the type of team we have now.

We may get into Europe, we might win a cup. In my opinion, we do need a new manager and a new credo to work with the constraints that we are currently under. We need to spend a little more money on our scouting. I believe that there are players out there in other European leagues that would meet our needs.

Recently I watched the challenge match between Liverpool FC and Valerenga FC, it was a really good game of football, this mid-table Norweigan side played connected football and more importantly played Liverpool of the pitch. I would like to see a couple of their players in our side, Havard Nielsen (winger) ran rings around Glen Johnson and Harmet Singh was doing the same in the middle of the pitch and that's just two I chose to mention. What about their manager as a candidate to relpace DM?? ? should he ever leave.

Roman Sidey
81 Posted 10/08/2011 at 03:19:18

Moyes out!

Eugene Ruane
82 Posted 10/08/2011 at 07:59:12

1) No
2) No
3) No
4) Fuck, no!

Sean McKenna
83 Posted 10/08/2011 at 06:35:52

Jesus, Moyes really does split the fanbase, doesn't he! The thing is comparing Martinez to Moyes is a funny one...

Let's step back a bit: if you compared Moyes's Preston to Swansea's Martinez, who would you rather watch? Where are Preston now? Where are Swansea based on Martinez's management?

Now Martinez has had, what, one or two years at Wigan, where Moyes has had 10 at Everton!!! In those 10 years, we have never had two out-and-out wingers in the team... in fucking 10 years ? no wingers! If that's not negativity, I don't know what is!

Now look at the two teams: would you take any of the Wigan players ahead of the Everton players? ... NO! If Martinez had our squad, I believe we would finish much higher in the league and also play superb football.

Moyes is not the worst manager in the world but he never just goes for it. He is a Steady Eddy ? he never learns from his mistakes... See Chelsea in the FA Cup Final: we had them but the negative twat bottled it!

Another question: Have we ever come from a goal down against the so-called big 4 and won?

Dave Lynch
84 Posted 10/08/2011 at 08:50:17

For what it's worth.
I think Moyes knows if he leaves, this club will hit rock-bottom.
Maybe he feels loyalty to the fans and we are not giving him the credit he deserves.
I am in no way a Moyes fan, as my posts over the last 8 years or so will testify too.
Ask yourself this. If he trots, who would take the job under the constraints he works with, no top manager in their right mind would touch it with a shitty stick.
For now. Shite football and mid-table mediocrity is the best we have, i just hope we can maintain the mid table bit of the plan.
Because if we take the drop, it will be a long fucking way back under this board of wankers.

Stuart Gray
85 Posted 10/08/2011 at 09:09:16

I think Moyes is the correct man for our current situation. I suspect that very few other managers would have achieved the relative success that he has with the constraints he has been put under.

With more funds would he buy the players to play more attractive football etc - who knows but it would be nice to give him a chance I think.

How quickly we seem to have forgotten the years of fighting relegation.

So many non-Evertonians covet Moyes because of what he has managed to do at our club yet we are so negative.

Maybe Moyes has simply bought into this negative mentality that so many of the fans seem to have?

And probably the most important question is: Would you trust this board to bring in an adequate replacement? Megson anyone....

Tony J Williams
86 Posted 10/08/2011 at 09:17:27

"As manager he must be happy with the squad he has ? he must be. If he wants a certain player, he never says publically ? usually stating that he does not comment on other people's players. This does my head in ? if you are afraid to ask for something for fear of being refused or upsetting someone in your business, you should find another business"

Eh? Happy with his paper thin squad? Hows that then? He can scream until he is blue in the face that he wants Sneider, not going to do him a bit of good, as we can't even offer money for loanees. So he comes out and publicly states he wants x, y or z. Said club runs hands together and adds a couple of mil to his price.

You watched a challenge match and thought a player looked good, let's get them then. No scouting needed, you watched one game and have made a decision that their winger is what we need. Brilliant work lad.

If I remember correctly Souness listened to someone and bought and played George Weah's cousin.....who turned out to be a banker from London.

It was a meaningless friendly so I take whatever happened in the game with a huge dose of salt.

Back to the point, I doubt he is affraid to ask for it, he just knows it is pointless asking for something that is impossible to get. No money in the club, why ask for it?

David Mathieson
87 Posted 10/08/2011 at 11:36:18

Steve Ashton 3
?this will be the 6th consecutive transfer window without a net spend?

Sell to buy, shuffle your pack and most of all when you get 25 million don?t shit it up the wall on panic buys, especially not at Everton. When we sold Lescott Moyes? master plan was to split up the Baines & Pieenar combination and spend 10 million on the worst winger I have ever seen. Heintinga who was the top earner when he signed has no place at all in the side, in midfield he is awful and stops Rodwell?s development, at centre half him and Jagielka are supposedly too small to play together, why spend big money on him then? Or better still why is he still here? Why is Billy still here? As for Distin he makes more mistakes than Yobo and we payed well over odds for him, from a club begging for money, awful waste all round.

Ian Tunstead 20
?I will however defend Moyes, the man that resuced this club from almost certain relegation which would likely have ended up in a similar situation as Leeds?

Everton were a top flight club long before Moyes and will be long after in-fact Moyes has took us closer to relegation than Smith with his all-time record points haul when we finished 4th bottom. The main people responsible for Everton not getting relegated (in a diabolical era caused by Johnson) are KENWRIGHT, Smith and Rooney probably add Kendall to that list. If Kenwright never took over from Johnson who knows where we would be?

John Ford
88 Posted 10/08/2011 at 12:17:02

The comments regarding other teams (our competitors) appointing mediocre managers is quite revealing. Moyes stands out from these. His record is second to none in comparison with anyone who could reasonably be viewed as a peer.

The questions the OP presents are weighted/worded against Moyes so im not going to bother.

There is an argument for change, solely on whether we believe a more attacking style should be introduced, and whether this means another manager would be needed. This is very high risk. Ive said before there are absolutely no examples outside of the money elite where a more attack minded team has success over a season. We tend to assess these other teams solely on their golden moments rather than what happens over time. The end result is usually the same, relegation threats. I guess Stoke could be an exception, but for how long and are they really any good? I

So would I swap Moyes for someone with a more open style? No chance! In any case down the years with the players weve had we've shown we can play great football. Moyes just needs the chance to replace Piennar, Donovan, and sadly Arteta.

What we've got is the best option. COYB and best of luck to Moyesy.

Andy Crooks
89 Posted 10/08/2011 at 12:35:15

David, nice to see the much maligned Smith get a bit of recognition.

Daniel A Johnson
90 Posted 10/08/2011 at 12:32:26

I personally wanted Steve mclaren to come.

I think if he was offered the job he would run here, he won a trophy with boro, won the league with FC Twente and has football experience Moyes can only dream off.

I thought if he came he could easily do as well if not better than Moyes

David Thomas
91 Posted 10/08/2011 at 12:38:50

Fran 80,

What a great post.

I can go one better though. Hull City beat Liverpool 3-0 in a pre-season friendly. Why don't we bring in Nigel Pearson and a few of Hull's players.

Marcus Kendall
92 Posted 10/08/2011 at 12:42:32

Steve McLaren is awful! You think Moyes is boring then just wait til you see McLaren's style of football! He did an average job at Middlesbrough in truth, so what he won the League Cup (so did McLeish and anyone who rates him must be mad) but I judge a manager on league performances and Middlesbroughs were average under McLaren (I remember lots of Boro fans wanted McLaren out because they didn't rate him/his style of football and his signings)

Winning the Dutch League is not the qualification for the Everton job, the Dutch league has been in crisis the last few years (Ajax/PSV and Feyenoord have hit bad times compared to the dominance they used to have over there) and thats why smaller clubs like Twente and AZ have had success (its not as impressive as it looks from the outside)

Also when McLaren went to a competitive league he failed miserably at Wolfsburg, so I fail to see how he could be better than Moyes in any respect

Tony J Williams
93 Posted 10/08/2011 at 12:49:50

"spend 10 million on the worst winger I have ever seen" - That's because he is not and never will be a winger.

David Mathieson
94 Posted 10/08/2011 at 13:22:37

Moyes bought him to play as a winger and has used him there near enough every game he has played for the past two years therefore he is a winger. I trust the opinion of a x time LMA manager of the year award winner Moyes whose actions show Billy is a winger than the opinion of Tony J Williams on ToffeeWeb.

Tony you're wrong again---unlucky, suppose you must be accustomed to it by now.

Tommy Coleman
95 Posted 10/08/2011 at 13:24:23

'Moyes is better than Wenger' ha ha.

That's why Wenger is with one of the best temas in Europe and no big team has come in for Moyes.

4 straight No's for the record.

Dave Wilson
96 Posted 10/08/2011 at 11:33:21

Dear Me

Do you like Moyes constantly playing players out of position ? " How is possible to give a straight forward yes to that ? I mean, dont we want to take into consideration that it`s long been established - by people who actually give it a bit of thought - that we cant field a team without utilising players in various positions ?. . Sure the Kenwright supporters will try to absolve him of blame for this, but it wont wash.

" Do you like it when Moyes plays his favourites instead of Young gifted players ? " Ha Ha Ha . .
When did this happen ? are you seriously asking people to believe Moyes - As the man employed to get results - actually chooses a weaker team in order to accomodate his favourite ? or are you really whining because he doesnt play YOUR favourites ?

"I`m not here to completely slaughter him" . . .Yes you are but you are failing quite miserably

David Thomas
97 Posted 10/08/2011 at 14:45:44

Could someone just tell me who these young gifted youngsters are that Moyes is refusing to play?

Tony J Williams
98 Posted 10/08/2011 at 15:47:08

David, I don't have a problem admitting when I am wrong, unlike others on here. Won't be the first time and certainly won't be the last, but are you honestly suggesting that Bily is a winger? Or just going on where Moyes plays him...ignoring where he plays for his Country? Saying that, since he has been playing on the wing for us he has been dropped/benched by Russia.

Is Ossie a winger? Is Anichebe? Is Cahill? Is Ridwell? Is Arteta? they have all playerd there.

John Ford
99 Posted 10/08/2011 at 16:08:58

Amen Dave W

David Mathieson
100 Posted 10/08/2011 at 16:17:09

?Is Ossie a winger? Is Anichebe? Is Cahill? Is Ridwell? Is Arteta? they have all playerd there?.That is like asking if Steve Staunton or Jagielka is a goalkeeper, just because they have played there before.

Some people may be able to play multiple positions and be a winger and an attacking midfielder like Arteta or Osman or Striker and Winger like Anichebe but there is no doubt Billy is a winger he may be the Championship Manager A/M/L/R/C but still a winger.

I can imagine Jagielka being GK/DR/C or Steve Watson DR/MR/FR/C Subjective really...

Trevor Mackie
101 Posted 10/08/2011 at 16:36:51

Tony J

As usual your bizarre argumentative manner has you jumping on peripheral matters. The point is has Moyes wasted money on Bily - not if he's a winger or not.

You rail around like a screeching chimp in the zoo - take a deep breath, have a glass of water or something - you don't seem all there.

Tony J Williams
102 Posted 10/08/2011 at 17:14:42

You see Tony, that's where you and I differ. I don't imagine you foaming at the mouth and frantically bashing the keys when you disagree with my point.

Quite Freudian that you think anyone who disagrees with you may be like that.

I responded to a point to which I disagreed with and I apologise if you don't appreciate my style of posting....well tough really. I definitely won't lose a seconds sleep over it.

Yes Bily isn't a good premiership player, but he still scored more goals and created more assists than our former "hero" Piennar.

David, I stopped reading after you called Anichebe a striker.

Trevor Mackie
105 Posted 10/08/2011 at 17:40:28

Tony J

I'm assuming you meant me in your last post.

Tony my point about Moyes is very simple, he's a decent bloke who's had a long go at the job and we are where we are - I don't think he's going to better it and i'd be happy to gamble and try someone else.

Even if it was just an improvement in the style of football , that would do me at the moment.

That's it.

You obviously think differently and that's fine....but you do have a tendency to dive in - I mean calling me by your own name mate.....know what I mean?

Andy Crooks
106 Posted 10/08/2011 at 18:22:28

If Bily were to get a decent run in the side as an attacking midfielder he might well prove good enough for the premiership. It seems to me that some players can play anywhere, not Bily.

Andy Crooks
107 Posted 10/08/2011 at 18:48:47

Dave Wilson, Seamus Coleman was left out of the team when it was obvious to many Evertonians that if Moyes preferred Neville or Hibbert at right back at least Coleman should play wide midfield. Lescott was played out of position at left back instead of Baines. Two examples of picking favourites ahead of young players.

Also, I accept that you won't like this but... I believe that sending Duffy out on loan is a mistake. This is a young player with huge potential who was pushed down the pile by SENDEROS!!! I actually like Victor Anichebe as a striker and wouldn't mind seeing how he and Beckford got on up front. However, as a replacement for Coleman out wide; never in a million years. Gueye should get his chance but this will be another example of Moyes sticking to his favourites.

Come on, Dave, stop playing devils advocate for once and admit that the conservatism of David Moyes sometimes sticks in your craw.

Tony J Williams
108 Posted 10/08/2011 at 20:38:57

Trevor, that's where your assumptions are wrong. I would happily see another manager take over.

What I don't agree with is the one season wonders that get mentioned on here and continually finish below Moyes. Also the Martinez's who nearly get their sides relegated but because they played nice footy he should take charge.

Dave Wilson
109 Posted 10/08/2011 at 20:58:36

Andy

The clamour for Coleman to be included came on the back of a couple of exciting cameos that lasted about half an hour.

I doubt many Evertonians would choose Seamus over either Hibbert or Neville if their lives depended on the result.
It has nothing to do with favouritism, they are quite simply better defenders.

When Baines arrived, he was, by his own admission a little overawed. Lescott on the other hand was magnificent and was part of one of the best defences in the league; again, it was a no-brainer.

Coleman and Baines have come on a bundle under Moyes's guidance, both have become regular internationals, just as Jagielka and Lescott did.

All four players cost about £15 million, we have already had £25 million back... and, if we sold the other three, we could reasonably expect the overall profit to be around £45-50 million on just four players.

That would suggest Moyes has half an idea of what he`s doing ? Maybe you should think about that and then decide if your criticism stands up.

I haven't seen enough of Duffy but I suspect you are more guilty than Moyes of wanting to your favourites in the team.

I`ve criticised Moyes and will do again, but I find some of the claims and criticism levelled at him staggering.

I am convinced that much of this criticism comes from Kenwright supporters who won't dare stand up for him in public so they are trying to deflect blame.

I find it sickening to listen to people claim he has backed his manager sufficiently.

Robin Cannon
110 Posted 10/08/2011 at 21:13:23

Q1, Do you enjoy watching Everton?

Yes. Not always, but a reasonable amount of time. I get far more frustrated by our inconsistency than by our actual style of play. The constant hoofball accusations are just as inaccurate as if it was suggested we play like Barcelona.

Q2, Do you like the constant playing players out of position?

No. I don't think it's a massive issue; it's most annoying when he keeps sticking Victor out on the wing or something. I don't necessarily agree that we should throw in someone like Gueye rather than sometimes play someone like Osman even if he's not a natural winger, purely because Gueye's shown very little so far.

Q3, Do you like it when Moyes plays his favourites instead of our young gifted players?

I think we have a relatively predictable first XI, so I don't see it as a case of playing favorites. It because more obvious when we have injuries, or when we're winning and could give youngsters some relatively safe first team experience. That being said, when we play second string sides for experience you get a Brentford situation.
Q4, Do you think Moyes will ever win anything?

Not unless football in general changes significantly, or we get a really lucky run sometime. Barring changes in our financial situation or in the utterly ridiculous nature of the Premier League overall (since the City stuff in particular, I care so much less because the whole game is dumb), I don't think anyone else would either.

Robert Daniels
111 Posted 10/08/2011 at 21:55:48

Moyes, has had a much bigger net spend than Wenger, they haven't done too bad!

Moyes said at the end of last season he would sit down with the Board and discuss the future season's transfer policy and our plans to move forward... Not a peep!

I hate Kenwright with a passion but the manager has had funds. The manager does play players out of position, and always has, he spent years looking for a right-sided player, we even took Donavon on loan... he bought Bily (who should be played in the middle) who is left footed. We had Pienaar playing there... Pienaar is a right footed player?

If he starts the season (which I expect) with Cahill, Osman, and Neville in midfield, and no Barkley or Gueye or Baxter or Rodwell ? he should go. Fellaini, Rodwell, Barkley to start in midfield, and let them develop an understanding.

But this is Moyes; Barkley will probably get 30 seconds at the end of the game.

How long have we needed a right midfielder? In that time he has bought Bily, left foot £11mill? Johnny £6mill? Distin £5mill?Fellaini £15mill? Yak £12mill? AJ £9mill? etc etc,

Rodwell's played there, Osman, Vic, Landon, Arteta, Coleman (after the fans made him), Neville (do me a favour) etc.

Sean's right on all points.

Mike Gwyer
112 Posted 10/08/2011 at 22:03:49

Hey.

Moyes has taken EFC to where we are, and guess what - just keep watching, because he will take us further.

If you want to shout, turn up at the QPR match and have a dig at BK. I mean, FFS lets give Moyes our support - he can and will take Everton football club far further than you or I ever will.

Ian Tunstead
113 Posted 10/08/2011 at 23:14:14

Robert, i seem to remember being at Goodison on the 1st game of the season a few years back when Moyes started a certain 16 year old Wayne Rooney against Spurs.

If Moyes thinks Barkley is good enough to start then he will start him, if he doesn't then maybe it's because Moyes does'nt feel he i ready or that he has better options. Moyes watches his players every day in training and he will know better than you, me or any one else.

Brendan McLaughlin
114 Posted 10/08/2011 at 23:39:05

Robert #111
Wenger took over a club that won the title a few seasons earlier... Moyes took over relegation fodder!

Andy Crooks
115 Posted 10/08/2011 at 23:56:49

Dave, not only has Kenwright not backed Moyes I would go as far as to say he has betrayed him. Whatever my views on Moyes they don't compare with the loathing I have for the board.
By the way ,Dave, my brother was at the match at Windsor Park tonight and says that Pat McCourt was excellent and Niall McGinn came on and transformed things. Yes.yes I know it was Faroe islands but McGinn is on loan at Bradford yet he has looked good at international level. Ok I'll remove the green tinted specs.

Brendan McLaughlin
116 Posted 11/08/2011 at 00:20:14

Andy #115, Just curious Andy, why have N'orn Ireland never won the World Cup?

Tactically clueless manager
Manager playing players out of position
Lack of attacking mentality
Big Nigel in the safest job in international football
Lack of expectation from the fans
Big Nigel insisting on playing his favourites

Robert Daniels
117 Posted 11/08/2011 at 00:29:51

Ian, you're quite right about Rooney, but then he played him for 30 seconds in some games. He even played him on the wing, he played him, and brought him on with only minutes left.
When the whole planet knew he was class.

Coleman last season only got games because of the fans demanding he be tried at least on the wing, not Moyes's decision?

Brendan, you're quite right, point is in that time since they both took over Moyes has spent more money?

There is no comparison, in the last ten years we have spent more than Arsenal. Explain that to me.

Gavin Ramejkis
118 Posted 11/08/2011 at 00:25:42

David #97, how long between Coleman's 20-minute man of the match performance against Spurs until he finally got a game on the wing? And where has he played since? DM has made mistakes, everyone does, admit this one was a pretty blatant one.

Fran O'Brien
119 Posted 11/08/2011 at 01:24:50

We all know Moyes's history with EFC; the point I'm trying to make is that our scouting system needs to be revamped. We currently bring in young players for a fee, they don't make the grade, they usually languish in the reserves, get sent out on loan or released with little or no return. We all know the details.

Seamus Coleman seems like he's going to make it.. good for him. A friend of Moyes apparently recommended him, probably not a scout for EFC. He has signed players on other managers say-so (Mourinho and Hiddink).

Surlely we must have some scouts that look at players (not kids) in other leagues both domestic and International?? We have signed a few Brazilians under Moyes, players developed elsewhere exactly what we need, do we have a scout in Brazil? (South America, Central America) Man U paid six million for Chicarito, Wigan signed Palacios and Rolladega, I think there are some good players out there if you look for them. But I think we should probably should fire that guy in Brazil.

Fran O'Brien
120 Posted 11/08/2011 at 01:56:30

Also If we signed a few of those Norwegian players we might entice a few of those Norwegian tourists (who apparently love travelling to Merseyside) to come over from the dark side...

Roman Sidey
121 Posted 11/08/2011 at 01:44:43

Dave, as you know, I'm neither a Moyes or Kenwright fan. Your last post has some good points, but, I'm sure you'll hate to be told this, but you're as biased as the people whose opinions (that's right, OPINIONS) you dismiss.

The clamour for Coleman: Okay, so we saw a couple of good half-hour displays from a youngster and wanted him in the side at the expense of Hibbo (done nothing in 11 years, can't pass, can't shoot, can't tackle, can't cross, can't run), and Neville (getting on, can't pass).

When Baines arrived, he was given less time than a £6mil pound transfer should have been given. Fair enough, Lescott did great on the left flank, but no wonder we don't have cover for positions when Moyes plays his best players regardless of position. (Need I repeat his quotes from the West Ham game last season?)

No matter what any of them cost, Lescott is the only one that HAS given us a profit, and even if we did sell the other three to make a £30-45mil profit, could we, in this day and age, buy 3-4 new players of the quality we need with that money, knowing full well Kenwright would only let the manager spend some of it?

I've never seen you criticising Moyes. Show me the posts where you do.

Gavin Ramejkis
122 Posted 11/08/2011 at 02:30:42

Coleman didn't come in at the expense of Hibbert or Neville as he's not good enough to be a first choice right back yet. Moyes has tried him there this pre-season and he looks lost; his cameo was on the wing and that's where he has played since. Moyes may fancy him at RB but that would be a disaster as he couldn't cope against Bury.

Roman Sidey
123 Posted 11/08/2011 at 02:36:52

I know, Gavin. For the record, I was directly responding to Wilson's point about him not displacing either Hibbo or Nev, and also making it relevant to the fact that he played most of his earlier games for us at RB.

Sagar Palikhey
124 Posted 11/08/2011 at 03:25:54

If Moyes leaves than we'll get relegated for sure and you people enjoy your football in the Championship. Same boring tactics, same players, defensive setup, blaha blaha blaa... People don't see what he has done for 10 years? No one can replace Moyes ? he's a legend!

Dave Wilson
125 Posted 11/08/2011 at 08:51:11

Robert Daniels

Nice attempt to rewrite history, but we were all here too, we know what happened.

When Moyes brought in Bily, Heitinga and Distin, he had to bring in what was available to him - not neccesarily his first choices. We`d only just got the money for Lescott and the window was about to slam shut. Moyes knew if he didn't spend, the money was gone forever.

Given Lescott had gone and the Jag was struggling, Heitinga and Distin were absolutely essential.

When Fellaini was bought, Rodwell was a kid, Barkley was still at school and Carsley had called it a day, it was recognised AT THE TIME, that whatever money we did have should be spent on making us stronger in the middle of the park.

When Johson was bought we were desperate for strikers, AJ was never out of the top draw, but he was the best we could get with the money made available. When he left were still desperate for a top striker. I didn't hear anybody whining that we should have bought a winger when the Yak came in. Arteta and Pienaar have been voted our Players of the Season when playing out wide and people thought our needs in other departments were greater.

The simple truth is we have always been short in one position or another; the only way to avoid that is to replace players who move on and to replace quality with quality.

When other boards have given their managers funds to buy 3-4 players at a time, Moyes was being asked to complete the jigsaw piece by piece. Every time he has got close, we have become weakend in another area. Only sustained investment can remedy that.

Even the pittance raised by this board ? usually through the sale of quality players ? has dried up. This board give our manager nothing for years!

Your claims that this board has backed Moyes sufficiently will be music to their ears. But I doubt it will wash with too many Evertonians.

Andy Crooks
126 Posted 11/08/2011 at 10:32:18

Brendan #116, I can't say anything other than you're spot on with every point. How about Worthington for Everton?
Clever post, by the way.

Dave Wilson
127 Posted 11/08/2011 at 09:47:05

Roman I am not biased. I respect the job Moyes has done, but I support Everton, not the manager.

People know I was a critic of Moyes for years. That`s gradually changed ? I even wrote an article here saying why my views had altered. The biggest reason for the change of heart is that I don't believe 90% of the shite levelled against him stacks up. People have lost sight of his real flaws.

Stuart Gray
128 Posted 11/08/2011 at 10:51:58

Why are people so obsessed with the way Moyes handles the younger players? I don't hear anything but praise for Alex Ferguson when he bloods his youngsters slowly - and he's done alright.

I know he has greater resources at his disposal, but the fact is that young players generally aren't good enough or physically developed enough to play week in week out. Plus they risk burnout and injury. We should be looking after them not heaping expectation on them.

Michael Owen's career pretty much dried up at 26. That can't be right for any young player.

Ian Tunstead
129 Posted 11/08/2011 at 11:55:17

Robert, I can only think of one occasion when I was at I think the Everton-Charlton game when Rooney came on for McFadden who was having a mare as a temporary solution.

I don't ever remember Rooney starting and finishing a game on the wing. Maybe if we had three strikers on at once Rooney would drift more out wide but either way that is no comparison to what SAF did were Rooney was played out wide for almost an entire season. The same season they won the league and the CL.

I also can't think of a manager who has given more 16- and 17-year-olds a chance in the league in the last 10 years. Rooney, Vaughan, Baxter I think Anichebe might have been 17, and I am sure Barkley would have had a game by now only for his leg break, but he will get a game this season.

As for Coleman, Moyes can't win, you have people complaining that he should be played at RB others complaining that he should be played RM.

Let's look at the most important facts. Moyes signed him for buttons, Moyes made the right substitution against Spurs to bring him on and change the game. Moyes now starts him in RM and is trying to develop him as a RB. All decisions made by Moyes, not the fans.

Daniel A Johnson
130 Posted 11/08/2011 at 12:31:00

I want Moyes to seem interested.

I want Moyes to set the team up to want to win a footie match at home.

I want to go to old trafford and have a fucking go for once.

I want two strikers up front.

After a quiet first half I want beckford left on for the second.

I wnat him to kiss n make up with yobo and Yak as were skint.

I want moyes to play players in their correct poisition.

I want him to be positive for once.

I want Moyes to drop his best budddies Neville, Osman, Arteta, Hibbert, cahill when required

But alas the above will never happen

Tony J Williams
131 Posted 11/08/2011 at 13:03:46

When Required? By whose opinion?

Robin Cannon
132 Posted 11/08/2011 at 14:15:06

I think Dave Wilson's comment (127) is one of the most sensible points that I've seen in weeks.

The wider disillusionment at the state of the club and our long term prospects has led to a generally negative view of EVERYTHING. That also means a far more negative view of Moyes than is warranted.

While Toffeeweb is generally overly negative in any case in my opinion, the criticism of Moyes is getting way over the top. That doesn't mean he's perfect, or that he can't be criticized for legitimate flaws, but please let's start looking at this a little more objectively.

Andy Crooks
133 Posted 11/08/2011 at 16:49:51

Dave, do you actually believe that people take the time to come on this site and attack Moyes in order to deflect from Kenwright? As conspiracy theories, go that's a belter.

Michael Kenrick
134 Posted 11/08/2011 at 17:20:43

Andy, I was even wondering if I'd read that Wilsonian gem right... It has to be one of the most bizarre apologist angles he has come up with through his years of incomparable football knowledge. I'm gobsmacked.

Robert Daniels
135 Posted 11/08/2011 at 19:26:00

Dave,

Let's get one thing straight: I would never support that dog of a chairman by deflecting the blame on to Moyes.

That said, he has played people out of position, he has had ten years to buy a right-sided player, and he hasn't. He hung Osman out to dry there, and he got slaughtered by the fans.

Why did he buy Bily when we had Pienaar? £11M ? and no one on the right side?

Johnny, £6M? we already had Fellaini, Rodwell, Arteta, Ossie, Neville, Cahil... is he better than them.

If as you say, they weren't his 1st choices (!) ? was it panic buying?

I wasn't trying to rewrite history, I just live in the real world.

Dave Wilson
136 Posted 11/08/2011 at 20:12:41

Absolutely 100% I believe it Andy ! Is ther really any room for doubt ?

What else are these people doing when they try to tell us that the chairman has given the manager sufficient funds ?

Robert Daniels
137 Posted 11/08/2011 at 22:41:12

Dave,

I never said the chairman had given the manager sufficient funds. I said he had spent more than Wenger, do you really think I'm a Kenwright supporter?

Michael, would you please tell him I don't support Kenwright, I've never been so insulted in my life!

The shame...

Jimmy Sorheim
138 Posted 11/08/2011 at 22:32:38

I agree with most of your points Mckenna, but I am a fan of the early Moyes version who came into this club and turned it on his head. Now I dont know where he has gone, I dont see him anymore, he has gone hiding inside himself! I think moyes has the potensial to take us further if he reverts back to his core with grooming youngsters and being more agrresive.

Roman Sidey
139 Posted 12/08/2011 at 02:44:33

Dave, see Daniel A Johnson's wishlist at #130 - those are the criticisms aimed at Moyes time and time again on Toffeeweb from people who are fed up with his complete lack of talent/interest in winning something.

As you said, the shots we're taking at him are off the mark and over the top. I would say that all those criticisms (Thanks Daniel by the way) are relevant and reasonable.

Only when Moyes does the right thing and fucks off might we become a team with a set of balls on us.

Dave Wilson
140 Posted 12/08/2011 at 06:30:35

Roman

Daniel Johnsons comments are exactly the sort I am talking about

I want moyes to "seem" interested ? - the sort of thing a 5 year year old would come up with when seeking attention

"I want Moyes to set a team out to win a home match" - That sounds to me like somebody who has never seen a game at Goodison, Moyes always sets his team out to win, Perhaps a more accurate appraisal would be he doesnt seem to know how to overcome teams who come with the sole intention of stopping him.

"I want to have a go at old trafford" - we werer robbed by shocking refereeing decisions last time and not for the first time in recent years. Most other teams just got battered.

"I want two strikers up front" - So do all the other clubs, Man u, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal regularly leave millions of pounds worth of striking talent on the bench and play one up front, Its about not being outnumbered in midfield by teams who are there to stifle you. Why make it easier for them ?

"After a quiet first half I want to see Beckford left on for the second" - Now who wants to play favourites ? I know many Evertonians who think he should even be here.

"I want him to kiss and make up with the Yak and Yobo" - why would he need to ? Managers have been playing players they dont get on with since the game was invented - thats always assuming they dont get on.

I want Moyes to play players in their correct position - he does, Howard, Hibbert, Disitin, Jagielka, Yobo, Baines Beckford, Fellaini, Saha, Rodwell and the Yak are all first teamers and nearly always play in the same postion. when Moyes ask`s a few others to play in various roles, he is merely doing what every other manager in the game does. only in Moyes`s case its forced upon him.

"I want to be positive for once" - me too the negativity from people who constantly bash our team - before a ball has even been kicked is absolutely crippling.

I want, I want, I want. . . .so does every other fucker in this world

Ian Tunstead
141 Posted 12/08/2011 at 14:19:03

This ones for you Tommy and Trevor, it just shows that its not only Everton fans who are delusional and ungreatful. Quite amusing though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDBLSUKJiDY

Ian Tunstead
142 Posted 12/08/2011 at 14:28:07

Stan (Kroenke vs. Wenger; Arsenal remix)
incase it doesnt come up

Frank Carse
143 Posted 12/08/2011 at 15:04:54

Anyway, to more important things. Here's the starting line up against QPR a week Saturday:
Howard

Hibbert Jagielka Distin Baines

Anichibe Neville Fellaini Bily Osman

Saha

Outfield subs:
Cahill,Heitinga,Rodwell,Barkley,Velios Beckford

Tony J Williams
144 Posted 12/08/2011 at 15:39:27

Cahill is bound to start Frank, if he is fit he always does.

Roman Sidey
145 Posted 12/08/2011 at 19:47:47

Dave, if you truly want Everton to improve, then I don't see how you can say what you say about these points.

- First off, wanting Moyes to look interested. Maybe interested isn't the right term for all his demeanors, but do something as simple as look at his wikipedia profile, and tell me that Moyes portrays this same image now.

- If Moyes IS setting the team up to win every home game, he should be sacked because it isn't working in the slightest. He SHOULD know how to win against lower table clubs whether they set up for a draw or not.

- We were not robbed at Old Trafford by refs' decisions. We were horrible, and saying that we deserved anything out of that game last season would be far off the mark.

- Fuck what Man U, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal have sitting on their bench. Everton showed last year that they played much better football whenplaying 4-4-fucking-2. Some games (Chelsea for sure) are better with 4-5-1, but the way Moyes uses it is like a jockey trying to ride a greyhound.

- Beckford getting subbed for a like for like striker at half time was one of Moyes' more frustrating ploys last season. He shone when playing next to another forward, as did every other striker we have, so it COULD have worked to leave him on a bit more often, but it DIDN'T work very often bringing him off all the time.

- Not sure about Yobo, but Moyes has had it in for Yak ever since he injured himself. He has not given him any opportunity to get back to form, and actually dropped him when he looked to be on the up. Deny it all you like, Moyes has fucked up big time here.

- I don't whinge on here about players in the wrong position, I think utility players are essential to small squads. What would rather see more often though is Moyes maybe picking a formation that better suits our squad (which I believe is 4-4-2 or 3-5-2). Playing 4-5-1 with no decent wingers in the squad, let alone at least 2 is suicide, and doing it repetitively is the epitome of crazy.

- Being positive is harder to do these days when the head of our team (read: Moyes) is such a depressing, boring, socially retarded control freak. However, I think a lot of the discussion on here is less negative than it is constructive debate (not that any of it reaches anyone that can do anything about it all).

Thing thing is about these sort of wishlists, is that most of us would be content with maybe one or two of these coming to fruition. Like an article I wrote about expectations. There were 10 ideas that everyone thought I wanted done. When you come up with a whole list of ideas, that's when you find that one gem that is actually viable.

Dave Wilson
146 Posted 13/08/2011 at 20:23:24

Roman

We relied on the skill and defiance of our defence and goalkeeper at old trafford.
The relied on two shit house decisions by the ref to keep us out.

We were robbed alright.

Our best displayes at 4- 4-2, you`re deluded mate, all our victories over the top teams were achieved playing 4-5-1.

And how did Moyes fuck up big time with the Yak ? what utter bollocks. The man got a career threathening injury and has`nt been the same . .why do you think nobody wants him ?

Like I say, More than happy to listen to anything that actually stands up.

Robert Daniels
147 Posted 14/08/2011 at 00:56:28

Dave Wilson,

Is Moyes a relative of yours?

"Moyes always sets a team out to win"?

4-4-2, don't think so;
4-3-3, don't think so;

4-5-1, that's more like it;
4-6-0, the only manager to play it.

Ave a day off will ya, me sides are splitting.

Dave Wilson
148 Posted 14/08/2011 at 07:04:06

Robert

I didnt mention formations, I was responding to Roman

So you`re sides were splitting over something that wasnt said, as I say - delusional.

Perhaps if you spent time criticising Kenwright instead of insisting he has spent more than the Arsenal board you could be taken seriously.

Stop talking shite trying to compare the two. Arsenal have spent more on Wages alone than Moyes has spent on transfers and wages put together.

Oh and it wasnt just the big bucks that attracts these players to Arsenal, they managed build a stadium too.

We were at least on a parr with Arsenal before your hero came in . .now we are light years away

Robert Daniels
149 Posted 14/08/2011 at 12:11:16

Dave (Moyes) Wilson,

My sides weren't splitting over something you didn't say. You did say, Moyes always sets a team out to win? Thats funny,

Totally agree with you over Billy Liar, he nearly had me arrested outside the Park End for giving him grief over DK, KD etc,

But your hero has spent about £110M since he's been here. That's £11M a season on average... I'm not saying it's enough, I'm just saying he's had money.

I can see your tactic of making me out to be a Kenwright supporter, as you can't stick to the facts. Your hero has a bigger net spend than Wenger........ fact.

I hate Billy Bullshitter........fact.

Over to you, Moyes.... err... Wilson.

[Feeble and a tad silly really.]

Roman Sidey
150 Posted 14/08/2011 at 18:33:29

This story was about Moyes, Dave, not Kenwright. All you do is try to deflect the attention off Moyes and onto the chairman.

If you want to keep watching 4-5-1 or 6-4-0 or whatever shithouse set-up Moyes decides is best for us and keep defending him, keep doing it. You obviously won't hear a bad word about Moyes no matter what, and your constant dismissal of any criticism of the man is contradictatory to your claims that you are unbiased and able to criticise him.

Roman Sidey
151 Posted 14/08/2011 at 18:33:29

This story was about Moyes, Dave, not Kenwright. All you do is try to deflect the attention off Moyes and onto the chairman.

If you want to keep watching 4-5-1 or 6-4-0 or whatever shithouse set-up Moyes decides is best for us and keep defending him, keep doing it. You obviously won't hear a bad word about Moyes no matter what, and your constant dismissal of any criticism of the man is contradictatory to your claims that you are unbiased and able to criticise him.

Dave Wilson
152 Posted 15/08/2011 at 08:43:20

Roman

let me make one thing clear. I dont give a flying fuck about Moyes, I care about Everton. I will support the manager whoever he is.

I have a problem with people making up idiotic shite and pasing it off a constructive criticism. It`s kinda insulting.

You ask do I want to watch 4-5-1 or 4-6-0 ? well if you dont like 4-5-1 you need to stop watching Prem football full stop. EVERY single manager uses that formation most of the time.

Despite missing only a handful of games throughout Moyes`s tenure I have never seen us play 4-6-0 - do you know why ? because its just more made up shite
If Moyes has dropped his stirikers like at Eastlands and West Ham he has played Cahill or Anichebe up front, even when we had no fit strikers two seasons ago he played Cahill up front.
You people want to whine that he played Cahill out of position AND also whine that he played without a stiker . . YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS !

Robert
I dont have to use "tactics"

The minute you tried to peddle your shite about Wenger spending less than Moyes and that Moyes has been suficiently supported, you showed your true colours.
Wenger has spent well over 250 million on transfers, his signings were paid more in wages alone than Moyes has spent on wages and fees combined. Arsenal pay far higher wages than Kenwright will stump up, that in turn attracts the sort of player they can sell on for huge amounts of money, only a complete idiot would swallow your half baked nonsense about Wenger spending less than Moyes. They operate in different worlds and you think you can draw comparisons ? .

As for Moyes not setting out to win.

Perhaps your right. Perhaps the managers of Spurs, Man U, City, Chelsea, Liverpool should all be under investigation, because in the past couple of seasons they have ALL had the Goodison turf wiped with their muli Million pound squads by a Guy who doesnt even set his team up to win.

YOUR sides are splitting ?

Robert Daniels
153 Posted 15/08/2011 at 10:47:39

Last word Wilson (Or is it Moyes?)

Dave, if you can't stand anything bad said about Moyes, go to another thread.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions,

HERE WE GO AGAIN!

Moyes has had a bigger net spend than Wenger,

I never said I hate Moyes; I never said sack him. I offered an opinion on what Sean said.

The only fact that's been stated is Moyes has had a bigger net spend than Wenger. You can dress it up all you like, but that is a fact... You do know what a fact is don't you?

I don't know why you're so upset, and I've lost count how many times you have said I'm talking shite... Does only your opinion matter?

Your now making yourself look foolish... Go on Dave, have the last word again, write some more shite, because you're obviously full of it.

David Thomas
154 Posted 15/08/2011 at 19:31:47

Wenger has spent less than Moyes, fuckin hell i know there have been some idiotic comments on here but that statement is actually insane.

Roman Sidey
155 Posted 15/08/2011 at 21:56:18

Dave, you're right in a lot of what you just said, but going on last season's results against the bottom half of the league (at home and away), even you have to admit that Moyes hasn't a clue how to a) motivate HIS players for that type of match, or b) how to go out from the start of a game and win it.

I love that we did well against the top 6 last year and give Moyes credit for getting it right against those sides, but it's all for nothing when teams like WBA beat us twice (flogging us once) and when we have to come from behind to draw with West Ham twice.

Dave Wilson
156 Posted 16/08/2011 at 08:50:43

Robert Daniels.

Do you have even a basic understanding of the claim you are making ?

When Wenger is able to make fortunes selling on players like Fabrigas, Henry, Vierra etc, its because his board have been prepared to pay the wages to get them in the first place. . .and then even bigger wages to keep them.

Now I will say this bit very slowly . . .The wages paid to the players are as much part of net spend as the transfer fees . .do you get it ? no matter how much you try YOU CANT SEPERATE THE TWO.

stop embarrasing yourself, anyone who gives it any thought at all will know that Moyes`s net spend is chicken feed in comparison to Wengers.

My sides would still be splitting, but I find it deeply depressing to know we still have fans like you who want to claim that Kenwrights backing of Moyes is anything other than a fucken joke in comparison with the way Arsenals board have backed Wenger.

Last word ? its all yours mate, I`d be surprised if anyone else tried to explain it to you . . it just wont sink in

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