Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
It's not just about the money
By Ged Dwyer :: 03/09/2011
42 Comments (»Last)
Firstly, I?ll state the obvious: we need a chairman who has more common sense than Kenwright and who has more money than Kenwright.
But, just as important, we need a manager who has more common sense than Moyes and who isn't the chairman's lapdog.
Here's just two more reasons why Moyes must go:
He has fallen out with or couldn?t manage nearly every striker who has been at the club while he's been in charge; Rooney, Radinski, Jeffers, Bent, Beattie, Johnson, Vaughan, Yakubu, Beckford... I'm sure there's others too. THIS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY but it is all to do with Moyes, and his tactics and management of his strikers. An absolutely ridiculous situation.
Four years ago, the team was almost there. Pienaar and Arteta were two of the most important players we had and it was essential at this time that the manager bought well. We were probably 2 or 3 players away from having a really good balanced team. We needed a wide man, an aggressive natural ballwinner, and a tricky goalscorer would have been great.
But Moyes wasted £31 million bringing in Fellaini, then Bily and Heitinga. None of them were needed and none of them have justified their fee. That's £31 million that never improved the team. Bringing in not necessarily the best players but good players who would have given us the right balance was more important than bringing in the so-called big signing that the naive Moyes was obsessed with at the time.
I know all the usual comments will be posted with regard to Fellaini. I know some Evertonians will think Moyes couldn't possibly pay £15 million for a player who just isn't that good, and I know they desperately want us to have a 'Gerrard type? player. But as a defensive midfielder Fellaini just isn't good enough as he can't tackle properly, isn't quick enough to cover the defence properly, and has no engine. His size makes him awkward in the tackle. But I acknowledge our pathetic local media keep on feeding the hype.
Can anyone tell me when Fellaini has ever had a shot from outside the box that was on target, never mind one that hit the back of the net? Surely a big requirement from a so-called top midfielder. He doesn't take free kicks or penalties. Not exactly what you'd expect from your £15M player.
His most influential game last season was when he was pushed forward in the last few minutes of the West Ham home game and he scored his only league goal. This is his best position.
There is no need to argue about this. Just look at the facts. We won only 5 league games last season when he was in the team and our best two runs were when he was injured (first in October when we beat Liverpool and Stoke at home and drew with Spurs and Blackpool away and then at the end of the season). I thought a £15M player is supposed to improve performances. He is at his best when the going?s good but, when the team is struggling, his game falls apart. Again, not what you want from a player that cost so much.
I have nothing against Fellaini himself, I like his attitude, but he was not the player we needed and, unbelievably, he wasn?t even the player Moyes wanted at the time of signing him.
Giving Moyes money to spend is not the answer (remember him wasting the Rooney money on players such as Beattie, Krøldrup, Simon Davies and Van der Meyde) but giving it to a new manager who will use it wisely is.
As for Arteta leaving. I was amazed he stayed for as long as he did. He signed a new contract at the start of last season and this was the cue for the deluded Evertonians to start giving him stick during games. I hope these Evertonians are proud of themselves now!
He was instrumental in most of the big wins last season: Liverpool, City, Chelsea at home and the vital win away to Newcastle that finally got us clear of the relegation zone. All games Fellaini missed by the way. Arteta was a tremendous servant to the club and a great footballer even when not at his best. Taking a drop in wages to get away from this nonsense and away from Moyes says it all.
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE MONEY!!!
Reader Comments (42)
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Gavin Ramejkis
2 Posted 03/09/2011 at 15:28:47
2 Posted 03/09/2011 at 15:28:47
The club needs people who know how to run a business and can plan how to run coin and reinvest it to in turn create greater profits. Sadly the incumbents at Everton for decades haven't done this, even before BK we were ran as an old boys club, the current gap has widened and will continue to do so. It doesn't take a billionaire to gain a well ran business either.
Peter Laing
3 Posted 03/09/2011 at 15:35:58
3 Posted 03/09/2011 at 15:35:58
Did you get to the Blue Union meeting today Gavin? Cracking turnout.
James Lauwervine
4 Posted 03/09/2011 at 16:01:18
4 Posted 03/09/2011 at 16:01:18
For me Fellaini paid off the £15m when he skinned Bellamy that time.
Nick Entwistle
5 Posted 03/09/2011 at 16:15:36
5 Posted 03/09/2011 at 16:15:36
Fellaini has been a good buy and will continue to improve given he's 22/ 23.
Chris Smith
6 Posted 03/09/2011 at 16:26:39
6 Posted 03/09/2011 at 16:26:39
It's all about opinions. I have seen enough of Fellaini to know that he is the real deal. This is my view.
Gavin Ramejkis
7 Posted 03/09/2011 at 17:06:57
7 Posted 03/09/2011 at 17:06:57
Hi Peter, my Mrs had me entertaining my two sons today with the weather being bad. I heard it was packed and not big enough for the turnout which is good news that the support is growing ? not just on the web but in person.
David Mathieson
8 Posted 03/09/2011 at 17:35:55
8 Posted 03/09/2011 at 17:35:55
Excellent article agree on just about all points so much so I could have wrote it myself.
Fellaini will never be a top player and if he stalls his new contract we should get him out the door if there is any takers.
For the people who think Fellaini is class, he has had one good game for Everton v Mancy City. He is not even in Scott Parker's bracket of quality who has failed at a top four club.
Fellaini will never be a top player and if he stalls his new contract we should get him out the door if there is any takers.
For the people who think Fellaini is class, he has had one good game for Everton v Mancy City. He is not even in Scott Parker's bracket of quality who has failed at a top four club.
Trevor Mackie
9 Posted 03/09/2011 at 17:45:23
9 Posted 03/09/2011 at 17:45:23
Ged
I agree so much with your post I'm going to copy it and use it as reference. He's not a good man manager and in reality that's what the jobs about.
I agree so much with your post I'm going to copy it and use it as reference. He's not a good man manager and in reality that's what the jobs about.
Kevin Hudson
10 Posted 03/09/2011 at 19:42:50
10 Posted 03/09/2011 at 19:42:50
Three games into the season, two of which we have won,and we get a "Moyes Out!" article??
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
Dave Wilson
11 Posted 03/09/2011 at 21:12:01
11 Posted 03/09/2011 at 21:12:01
I'd like to agree with you Ged, BUT.
Radzinsky, Bent, Beattie, Johnson, Vaughan, Yakubu and Beckford have about a century of football between them, they ALL enjoyed their career hightlight when playing for Moyes and they have barely managed a goal between them since they left.
Why do you figure that is?
Radzinsky, Bent, Beattie, Johnson, Vaughan, Yakubu and Beckford have about a century of football between them, they ALL enjoyed their career hightlight when playing for Moyes and they have barely managed a goal between them since they left.
Why do you figure that is?
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
12 Posted 03/09/2011 at 21:24:28
Editorial Team
12 Posted 03/09/2011 at 21:24:28
Wilson, I've been ignoring your boring Anichebe nonsene. But when you resort to blatant lies, I take action:
Radzinski: 11 + 14 +39
Bent:4 + 7 + 3
Beattie: 34 + 9
Johnson: 10
Vaughan: 5 + 4
Yakubu: 11
Radzinski: 11 + 14 +39
Bent:4 + 7 + 3
Beattie: 34 + 9
Johnson: 10
Vaughan: 5 + 4
Yakubu: 11
"... barely managed a goal between them since they left." Yeah, right.
Eric Myles
13 Posted 04/09/2011 at 02:37:04
13 Posted 04/09/2011 at 02:37:04
Can't disagree with what you said about Fellaini Ged. The only thing I can think of is that if Moyes hadn't have spent the money, it would have gone to the bank, and we'd have had no new signing.
Derek Thomas
14 Posted 04/09/2011 at 02:28:42
14 Posted 04/09/2011 at 02:28:42
Ged; fair points for the most. When you list Fellaini's faults or lacks, you could also maybe include Rodwell in there as well, or at least the Rodwell of recent form.
IMO Fellaini is not as good as his Dad thinks he is, but he is not too bad, he has only looked good a few times when he played in the old right-half position... Stevie G he ain't.
James (#4) £15mill might by some seem an expensive cameo / party trick.
Boldness and inovation are required both on and off the field... trouble is, I don't see Kenwright OR Moyes as brimming with these attributes.
IMO Fellaini is not as good as his Dad thinks he is, but he is not too bad, he has only looked good a few times when he played in the old right-half position... Stevie G he ain't.
James (#4) £15mill might by some seem an expensive cameo / party trick.
Boldness and inovation are required both on and off the field... trouble is, I don't see Kenwright OR Moyes as brimming with these attributes.
Dave Wilson
15 Posted 04/09/2011 at 09:05:54
15 Posted 04/09/2011 at 09:05:54
How is it a blatant lie Michael ?
114 of the goals you list were scored in either the Greek league, The Belgium second division or the lower levels of the English set up.
Now you may believe they should be taken into account but that doesnt mean anyone who doesnt is lying.
114 of the goals you list were scored in either the Greek league, The Belgium second division or the lower levels of the English set up.
Now you may believe they should be taken into account but that doesnt mean anyone who doesnt is lying.
Ged Dwyer
16 Posted 04/09/2011 at 11:25:39
16 Posted 04/09/2011 at 11:25:39
Hi Derek
I take your point about Rodwell. But the difference is Rodwell didn't cost £15 mill and he never gets the luxury of getting a run in the team in his best position which is centre midfield (or even in the centre of defence). Because he is versatile he keeps getting pushed out wide where he is never going to show his true worth.
I take your point about Rodwell. But the difference is Rodwell didn't cost £15 mill and he never gets the luxury of getting a run in the team in his best position which is centre midfield (or even in the centre of defence). Because he is versatile he keeps getting pushed out wide where he is never going to show his true worth.
He played in centre midfield against Birmingham at home last season when we were down to the bare bones and I thought he was excellent and took on the responsibility of being the main playmaker. He never got any recognition for this performance.
I also think, now as Arteta has left, he will be the new scapegoat for the deluded ones when things go wrong.
Jim Knightley
17 Posted 04/09/2011 at 14:33:24
17 Posted 04/09/2011 at 14:33:24
I'm very suprised at the praise for this article...
Firstly, highlighting bad signings (subjectively bad at that) of a manager in an attempt to devalue him fails massively given that EVERY manager makes bad transfer signings. Ferguson, often and rightly considered the best manager of the premier league era as made many poor signings.. Berb for 30million! Kleberson, Djemba Djemba etc.. Arsene, (the most astute buying of them all?), is not perfect either. Big big fees for Jeffers and Reyes, both of whom failed in an arsenal shirt. There are many more examples from Arsenal and Manu (and I won't start on Liverpool...)
Maybe highlight the good signings? How much did we pay for Arteta? Cahill? Pienarr? Beckford? Baines? Jagielka? Howard? Moyes buying has been remarkable. Every manager has bad signings.. Some that have been highlighted came after the lescott signing when time was scare. Fellaini may have been a great player if not for injury and he is a very good player when fully fit. And I do not see how scoring goals from outside the era as a skillset is a requirement for a top midfielder... its a statement of pure lunacy. Does Xavi scores lots of goals outsite the area? I wont even list all the players that don't because it would be inane and reductive.
Here's a fact; Since Moyes took over at Everton, we have spent 1/5 of the money Spurs have spent. Prior to deadline day transfers, our wage bill was 26million less than Aston Villa's.
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
As usual, another nonsensical article about Moyes. Get it in your heads that we come seventh, or sixth, or fifth because our team is only worth that position (and often much less) No Mourinho will ride into Goodison and turn good players into superstars. We haven't turned from relegation potential to a top half team with far less budgets than those considered out rivals with an awful manager.. Please realise that Moyes' negative tactics will cost us points.. and by the same token will win us points. Sticking two up front wont bring in tons of extra points. And please realise IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY and we don't have any and relatively have suffered for years, spending generally only what we have earnt.
Firstly, highlighting bad signings (subjectively bad at that) of a manager in an attempt to devalue him fails massively given that EVERY manager makes bad transfer signings. Ferguson, often and rightly considered the best manager of the premier league era as made many poor signings.. Berb for 30million! Kleberson, Djemba Djemba etc.. Arsene, (the most astute buying of them all?), is not perfect either. Big big fees for Jeffers and Reyes, both of whom failed in an arsenal shirt. There are many more examples from Arsenal and Manu (and I won't start on Liverpool...)
Maybe highlight the good signings? How much did we pay for Arteta? Cahill? Pienarr? Beckford? Baines? Jagielka? Howard? Moyes buying has been remarkable. Every manager has bad signings.. Some that have been highlighted came after the lescott signing when time was scare. Fellaini may have been a great player if not for injury and he is a very good player when fully fit. And I do not see how scoring goals from outside the era as a skillset is a requirement for a top midfielder... its a statement of pure lunacy. Does Xavi scores lots of goals outsite the area? I wont even list all the players that don't because it would be inane and reductive.
Here's a fact; Since Moyes took over at Everton, we have spent 1/5 of the money Spurs have spent. Prior to deadline day transfers, our wage bill was 26million less than Aston Villa's.
IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
As usual, another nonsensical article about Moyes. Get it in your heads that we come seventh, or sixth, or fifth because our team is only worth that position (and often much less) No Mourinho will ride into Goodison and turn good players into superstars. We haven't turned from relegation potential to a top half team with far less budgets than those considered out rivals with an awful manager.. Please realise that Moyes' negative tactics will cost us points.. and by the same token will win us points. Sticking two up front wont bring in tons of extra points. And please realise IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY and we don't have any and relatively have suffered for years, spending generally only what we have earnt.
John Ford
18 Posted 04/09/2011 at 15:03:44
18 Posted 04/09/2011 at 15:03:44
Solid post Jim#16....a fifth of Spurs spend yet our record stands up to theirs. Remarkable.
The whopping irony with the 'money aint that important' argument is that Moyes is the only manager to have consistent high league placings, and have no money!. So ok money doesnt matter - provided you have a manager called David Moyes! ....cos he'll get more out of his team than anyone else.
There is a direct correlation between levels of spend and subsequent success. This has been established on here with clear statistics, and this is why the same fecking teams win everything, but for some reason people chose to ignore it.
I'll debate Moyes all day around tactics, preferred style etc etc, and there are sound arguments on both 'sides,' but its a big fat own goal to claim he's not done enough with what money he's had. In the present financial vacuum we need our man more than ever.
The whopping irony with the 'money aint that important' argument is that Moyes is the only manager to have consistent high league placings, and have no money!. So ok money doesnt matter - provided you have a manager called David Moyes! ....cos he'll get more out of his team than anyone else.
There is a direct correlation between levels of spend and subsequent success. This has been established on here with clear statistics, and this is why the same fecking teams win everything, but for some reason people chose to ignore it.
I'll debate Moyes all day around tactics, preferred style etc etc, and there are sound arguments on both 'sides,' but its a big fat own goal to claim he's not done enough with what money he's had. In the present financial vacuum we need our man more than ever.
Drew O'Neall
19 Posted 04/09/2011 at 15:20:44
19 Posted 04/09/2011 at 15:20:44
Well said Jim.
Ciarán McGlone
20 Posted 04/09/2011 at 16:39:21
20 Posted 04/09/2011 at 16:39:21
Your spot on about Fellaini...in 5 years time his fan club will still be saying he's got the potential to be the best midfielder in the league..
Truth is, he an average midfielder - who is one of the dirtiest players i've ever seen.
If he didn't play for everton, we'd all despise him.
He makes Nolan look like a saint.
Truth is, he an average midfielder - who is one of the dirtiest players i've ever seen.
If he didn't play for everton, we'd all despise him.
He makes Nolan look like a saint.
Ian Tunstead
21 Posted 04/09/2011 at 18:56:30
21 Posted 04/09/2011 at 18:56:30
Ged you seem to have conveniently forgotten a few things. You are wrong when you say ?But Moyes wasted £31 million bringing in Fellaini, then Bily and Heitinga. None of them were needed?
Let?s go back a few years, around the time Everton played Florentina. We had Pienaar and Arteta playing as wingers and doing a very good job at it. Everton were playing some great football at the time, the team was looking good. The only negative was that, although we had a few little skillfull and entertaining footballers, it also turned out to be our Achilles heel. The midfield of Osman, Arteta and Pienaar were called the ?midget gems? and we struggled from set pieces. This was part of the reason why Baines struggled to get in the side. Apart from Lescott showing some great form at LB, we desperately needed the extra height in the side.
Eventually it came time for Carsley to hang up his boots. After consistently finishing just outside the top 4, Carsley's final words were along the lines: ?In order for Everton to take the next step and get to the next level, it is time for me to move on.? So absolutely the priority at the time was a defensive/holding midfielder who could either break up the opposition or dictate the play but also crucially he needed to be good in the air so Baines could take his place at LB and Lescott could move to CB.
A small Makele-type would not be sufficient, as Castillio on loan proved. Jaggs was eventually brought in, he seemed to tick all the boxes, he was quick, he was good in the air and he was defensive minded, he was also a bargain. Unfortunately CM just didn?t suit him but I think he was worth a try for £4m.
Rodwell was also given his chance to show he could play the role, he also seemed to possess all the attributes needed to play the role but it was soon realised his reading of the game was poor, his tackling wasn?t great and lacked tenacity, he just wasn?t up to it, he was and still is regularly bullied in midfield but it was always accepted early on that he was going to drop back into defence.
So the only option was go out and buy a defensive midfielder who added some much needed height to the midfield. Moyes was rushed into the signing Fellaini but he went out and brought in probably the tallest holding midfield prospect in Europe who had shown glimpses of the potential he had when playing against Liverpool.
We must remember he was bought as potential. Early on, although he was our top scorer he looked to be out of his depth and struggled to break up the opposition, and with the loss of Lescott I think it was wise of Moyes to bring in Heitinga who could be a stop gap for Fellaini until he grew into the position but also be good back up for Jaggs and long term successor for the aging Distin.
My own view of Fellaini is that he is a very good holding midfielder who can potentially be a great all round midfielder, he has shown that he can boss games, he also has the added bonuses of being very useful in both boxes from set pieces. Although the stats don?t really back it up I do believe he is a very effective player when on top form. He is still a young player who has at least improved and developed every season. The same cannot be said for Rodwell.
Let?s go back a few years, around the time Everton played Florentina. We had Pienaar and Arteta playing as wingers and doing a very good job at it. Everton were playing some great football at the time, the team was looking good. The only negative was that, although we had a few little skillfull and entertaining footballers, it also turned out to be our Achilles heel. The midfield of Osman, Arteta and Pienaar were called the ?midget gems? and we struggled from set pieces. This was part of the reason why Baines struggled to get in the side. Apart from Lescott showing some great form at LB, we desperately needed the extra height in the side.
Eventually it came time for Carsley to hang up his boots. After consistently finishing just outside the top 4, Carsley's final words were along the lines: ?In order for Everton to take the next step and get to the next level, it is time for me to move on.? So absolutely the priority at the time was a defensive/holding midfielder who could either break up the opposition or dictate the play but also crucially he needed to be good in the air so Baines could take his place at LB and Lescott could move to CB.
A small Makele-type would not be sufficient, as Castillio on loan proved. Jaggs was eventually brought in, he seemed to tick all the boxes, he was quick, he was good in the air and he was defensive minded, he was also a bargain. Unfortunately CM just didn?t suit him but I think he was worth a try for £4m.
Rodwell was also given his chance to show he could play the role, he also seemed to possess all the attributes needed to play the role but it was soon realised his reading of the game was poor, his tackling wasn?t great and lacked tenacity, he just wasn?t up to it, he was and still is regularly bullied in midfield but it was always accepted early on that he was going to drop back into defence.
So the only option was go out and buy a defensive midfielder who added some much needed height to the midfield. Moyes was rushed into the signing Fellaini but he went out and brought in probably the tallest holding midfield prospect in Europe who had shown glimpses of the potential he had when playing against Liverpool.
We must remember he was bought as potential. Early on, although he was our top scorer he looked to be out of his depth and struggled to break up the opposition, and with the loss of Lescott I think it was wise of Moyes to bring in Heitinga who could be a stop gap for Fellaini until he grew into the position but also be good back up for Jaggs and long term successor for the aging Distin.
My own view of Fellaini is that he is a very good holding midfielder who can potentially be a great all round midfielder, he has shown that he can boss games, he also has the added bonuses of being very useful in both boxes from set pieces. Although the stats don?t really back it up I do believe he is a very effective player when on top form. He is still a young player who has at least improved and developed every season. The same cannot be said for Rodwell.
Kevin Hudson
23 Posted 04/09/2011 at 20:33:05
23 Posted 04/09/2011 at 20:33:05
Some good points there,Ian.
Got to admit to having a soft spot for Fellaini myself. Watching him in the flesh patrolling & at times dominating midfield is a sight to see.
Occasionally he looks off the pace but, with Arteta gone, I would hope to see him become pivotal to us.
Got to admit to having a soft spot for Fellaini myself. Watching him in the flesh patrolling & at times dominating midfield is a sight to see.
Occasionally he looks off the pace but, with Arteta gone, I would hope to see him become pivotal to us.
Ged Dwyer
24 Posted 04/09/2011 at 21:22:56
24 Posted 04/09/2011 at 21:22:56
Thanks Jim (17), You support my argument:
'Here's a fact; Since Moyes took over at Everton, we have spent 1/5 of the money Spurs have spent'.
Until the last two seasons we had spent less than Spurs but had usually finished above them. Showing: IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE MONEY.
Spurs were looking great a year ago but Redknapp carried on spending and they've gone backwards.
The secret is when you do spend, spend it wisely and not necessarily on expensive players but ones that will help the balance of the team.
The £31 million I was talking about hasn't improved us but has only put us in financial trouble.
Although finishing quite high for the last two seasons we were involved in a relegation battle for far too long. The worrying thing about last season is we only went safe after Fellaini got injured.
And lack of finance is no excuse for defeats against teams like QPR and a whole host of cup defeats against lower division teams. It's simply bad management.
Finally, why is this incorrect?
'Here's a fact; Since Moyes took over at Everton, we have spent 1/5 of the money Spurs have spent'.
Until the last two seasons we had spent less than Spurs but had usually finished above them. Showing: IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE MONEY.
Spurs were looking great a year ago but Redknapp carried on spending and they've gone backwards.
The secret is when you do spend, spend it wisely and not necessarily on expensive players but ones that will help the balance of the team.
The £31 million I was talking about hasn't improved us but has only put us in financial trouble.
Although finishing quite high for the last two seasons we were involved in a relegation battle for far too long. The worrying thing about last season is we only went safe after Fellaini got injured.
And lack of finance is no excuse for defeats against teams like QPR and a whole host of cup defeats against lower division teams. It's simply bad management.
Finally, why is this incorrect?
He has fallen out with or couldn?t manage nearly every striker who has been at the club while he's been in charge; Rooney, Radinski, Jeffers, Bent, Beattie, Johnson, Vaughan, Yakubu, Beckford... I'm sure there's others too. THIS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY but it is all to do with Moyes, and his tactics and management of his strikers. An absolutely ridiculous situation.
Ged Dwyer
25 Posted 04/09/2011 at 21:28:02
25 Posted 04/09/2011 at 21:28:02
Ian (21)
I think the comment 'you seem to have conveniently forgotten a few things' is more appropriate to your reply.
I'm in total agreement about the team that played Florentina. And I said we needed a natural ballwinner. Fellaini isn't; he is awkward in the tackle, can't slide tackle, clatters into opposition players far too much, giving away too many free kicks, or just lets the man go. Watch some videos of Keane and Reid and you'll see what I mean.
I think the comment 'you seem to have conveniently forgotten a few things' is more appropriate to your reply.
I'm in total agreement about the team that played Florentina. And I said we needed a natural ballwinner. Fellaini isn't; he is awkward in the tackle, can't slide tackle, clatters into opposition players far too much, giving away too many free kicks, or just lets the man go. Watch some videos of Keane and Reid and you'll see what I mean.
Progressive teams don't worry about height in the midfield, that's the defences job. The Carsely comment was correct but the wrong player bought.
Castillio came in the side at the same time as Fellaini actually and looked promising, scored a great goal against Standard Liege, and was promptly dropped by Moyes because he didn't want the loan signing he hadn't ok'd overshadowing his 'big' signing.
Jaggs was a no brainer.
Rodwell has never had a run in the team at centre-mid like Fellaini has so we don't know how good he might have become.
'Moyes was rushed into the signing Fellaini but he went out and brought in probably the tallest holding midfield prospect in Europe who had shown glimpses of the potential' 'We must remember he was bought as potential' ? You don't pay £15 mill for someone showing glimpses and potential, come on. Rodwell was doing that !
As a holding player, Fellaini is too slow to cover the defence properly and struggles to keep with his man and get a tackle in ? that's why we only won 5 league games when he was playing. Argue with the facts, not me.
Fellaini by the way put himself in the shop window in the summer and will leave given the chance but for some reason no other manager seems to be interested.
Ian Tunstead
26 Posted 04/09/2011 at 21:41:30
26 Posted 04/09/2011 at 21:41:30
Ged spurs haven?t gone backwards because they?ve spent money, I don?t think we can say they have gone backwards after 2 games, but if they have it?s because the teams above them have spent more and moved forwards.
You say ?Castillo was promptly dropped by Moyes because he didn't want the loan signing he hadn't ok'd overshadowing his 'big' signing.?
That?s not true either, it is ridiculous to suggest that Moyes would drop Castillo at the expense of the team to save face, wouldn?t Moyes be credited for bringing Castilo in, and if he was so good Moyes probably had the option to sign him. The truth is Castillo wasn?t dropped to accommodate Fellaini he was dropped to accommodate Rodwell. Castillo was back up in case Rodwell didn?t make the step up in CM.
Most people on this site didn?t seem to want a natural ball winner they wanted a player Like Manny Fernandes who could dictate a game and pick a pass rather that a ?water carrier ball winner? like Carsley.
You mention players like Kean and Reid, perhaps Moyes hoped Heitinga could fill the void, ok it hasn?t quite gone according to plan, he did look promising early on. If you wanted to sign a player who could be aggressive in the tackle, win headers but be a step up from Carsley on the ball most people would think he was made for the role and I think he has done ok and is still very handy in defence but know body gets it right all the time. Surely you can understand the reasoning behind the decisions?
As for Rodwell its not Moyes fault Rodwell has had injuries but from what I have seen Fellaini is 5 times the player Rodwell is.
You say ?Castillo was promptly dropped by Moyes because he didn't want the loan signing he hadn't ok'd overshadowing his 'big' signing.?
That?s not true either, it is ridiculous to suggest that Moyes would drop Castillo at the expense of the team to save face, wouldn?t Moyes be credited for bringing Castilo in, and if he was so good Moyes probably had the option to sign him. The truth is Castillo wasn?t dropped to accommodate Fellaini he was dropped to accommodate Rodwell. Castillo was back up in case Rodwell didn?t make the step up in CM.
Most people on this site didn?t seem to want a natural ball winner they wanted a player Like Manny Fernandes who could dictate a game and pick a pass rather that a ?water carrier ball winner? like Carsley.
You mention players like Kean and Reid, perhaps Moyes hoped Heitinga could fill the void, ok it hasn?t quite gone according to plan, he did look promising early on. If you wanted to sign a player who could be aggressive in the tackle, win headers but be a step up from Carsley on the ball most people would think he was made for the role and I think he has done ok and is still very handy in defence but know body gets it right all the time. Surely you can understand the reasoning behind the decisions?
As for Rodwell its not Moyes fault Rodwell has had injuries but from what I have seen Fellaini is 5 times the player Rodwell is.
Bert Bunton
27 Posted 05/09/2011 at 02:24:37
27 Posted 05/09/2011 at 02:24:37
I made my argument to get of Fellaini here http://www.royalbluemersey.com/2011/7/23/2289765/fellaini-should-be-sold-for-the-team-to-thrive
I think he does have potential (he is still young) but Everton can't afford 15 million pounds of potential.
The fact is Everton does better without him.
I think he does have potential (he is still young) but Everton can't afford 15 million pounds of potential.
The fact is Everton does better without him.
Nelly Verdonghan
28 Posted 05/09/2011 at 09:03:05
28 Posted 05/09/2011 at 09:03:05
For God's sake when will people wake up....
MOYES IS NOT A GOOD MANAGER!!
He is part of the problem... during his reign, Middlesbrough and Fulham have reached the Uefa Cup Final which Moyes has never got anywhere near, Fulham doing it from a far harder group than ANY we have been involved in.
Stoke, Millwall and Cardiff have reached the FA Cup Final and Birmingham and Portsmouth have actually won trophies... Portsmouth beating Man Utd at Old Trafford along the way ? something that Moyes has NEVER done. None of these clubs have had a billionaire plying them with cash to buy the world's best players ? we're talking about Fulham, Birmingham and Portsmouth... not Barca, Real Madrid or AC MIlan!
In nearly 10 years, Moyes has reached a semi-final and final and 'bottled them' both as he did in 1st leg at Fiorentina. During his his entire career, including his time at Preston, he has won pecisely NOTHING. Please can someone explain how this makes him a good manager... PLEASE!!!
On top of this, he has NEVER beaten one of the so called 'big four' (please don't include Man Shitteh) away from home in the Premier League and has presided over both the worst league points total and season worst league goals scored total in our history, together with some of the worst (heaviest) defeats ever... added to the fact that he has ruined every striker he has come into contact with, with his dour negative SHITE tactics.
People say he's never had any money to spend... well that's a load of rubbish. He has broken the club record transfer fee THREE times. I wouldn't be surprised i,f after his last foray into the transfer market (£10mil for Bily FFS) the powers that be, whether it be the bank and/or board, have refused to give him anymore money to waste.
Despite our precarious financial position, if he at least tried to play a more adventurous, attacking style of football, playing to the strength of his players and not continually playing them out of position, then he probably could and, more importantly, would win a lot more games. He must be tthe only person in the world who thinks Anichebe and Rodwell can play out wide or that Phil Neville and Heitinga are decent midfield players.
For his entire tenure, Moyes has flattered to deceive... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can somebody explain why he is considered a great manager?
MOYES IS NOT A GOOD MANAGER!!
He is part of the problem... during his reign, Middlesbrough and Fulham have reached the Uefa Cup Final which Moyes has never got anywhere near, Fulham doing it from a far harder group than ANY we have been involved in.
Stoke, Millwall and Cardiff have reached the FA Cup Final and Birmingham and Portsmouth have actually won trophies... Portsmouth beating Man Utd at Old Trafford along the way ? something that Moyes has NEVER done. None of these clubs have had a billionaire plying them with cash to buy the world's best players ? we're talking about Fulham, Birmingham and Portsmouth... not Barca, Real Madrid or AC MIlan!
In nearly 10 years, Moyes has reached a semi-final and final and 'bottled them' both as he did in 1st leg at Fiorentina. During his his entire career, including his time at Preston, he has won pecisely NOTHING. Please can someone explain how this makes him a good manager... PLEASE!!!
On top of this, he has NEVER beaten one of the so called 'big four' (please don't include Man Shitteh) away from home in the Premier League and has presided over both the worst league points total and season worst league goals scored total in our history, together with some of the worst (heaviest) defeats ever... added to the fact that he has ruined every striker he has come into contact with, with his dour negative SHITE tactics.
People say he's never had any money to spend... well that's a load of rubbish. He has broken the club record transfer fee THREE times. I wouldn't be surprised i,f after his last foray into the transfer market (£10mil for Bily FFS) the powers that be, whether it be the bank and/or board, have refused to give him anymore money to waste.
Despite our precarious financial position, if he at least tried to play a more adventurous, attacking style of football, playing to the strength of his players and not continually playing them out of position, then he probably could and, more importantly, would win a lot more games. He must be tthe only person in the world who thinks Anichebe and Rodwell can play out wide or that Phil Neville and Heitinga are decent midfield players.
For his entire tenure, Moyes has flattered to deceive... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can somebody explain why he is considered a great manager?
Eric Myles
29 Posted 05/09/2011 at 09:21:46
29 Posted 05/09/2011 at 09:21:46
Ged #24 Castillo...."was promptly dropped by Moyes because he didn't want the loan signing he hadn't ok'd overshadowing his 'big' signing."
Interesting statement.
You're saying that Moyes has / had no control over the players signed to play for HIM?
And if that was true he then would deliberately pick a player that he didn't want to play in HIS team?
Interesting statement.
You're saying that Moyes has / had no control over the players signed to play for HIM?
And if that was true he then would deliberately pick a player that he didn't want to play in HIS team?
Mike Green
30 Posted 05/09/2011 at 12:56:47
30 Posted 05/09/2011 at 12:56:47
In my opinion Fellaini's has the potential to be one of the top midfelders in our league.
His time with us has continually been broken up by injury, disciplinary issues (where at times he was unfairly singled out by referees having got "a name for himself") and playing completely out of position at the start of his time with us.
With a decent run in his preferred positon I believe he'd flourish and realise the potential people talk about on this thread. If he's naturally prone to injury and cant learn from disciplinary issues then unfortunately we wont see much more of it but I for one have seen it.
We're lumbered with having to rely on young potential or rejects from other clubs for the time being so unless you want a team of basket cases it might be worth giving Fellaini a bit of support, you never know he could be the ugliest duckling of them all.
His time with us has continually been broken up by injury, disciplinary issues (where at times he was unfairly singled out by referees having got "a name for himself") and playing completely out of position at the start of his time with us.
With a decent run in his preferred positon I believe he'd flourish and realise the potential people talk about on this thread. If he's naturally prone to injury and cant learn from disciplinary issues then unfortunately we wont see much more of it but I for one have seen it.
We're lumbered with having to rely on young potential or rejects from other clubs for the time being so unless you want a team of basket cases it might be worth giving Fellaini a bit of support, you never know he could be the ugliest duckling of them all.
Ian Tunstead
31 Posted 05/09/2011 at 15:22:57
31 Posted 05/09/2011 at 15:22:57
Nelly when are you going to wake up? Moyes is recognised by his peers in the game as being one of the best managers in the league.
?Fulham have reached the UEFA Final which Moyes has never got anywhere near....Fulham doing it from a far harder group than ANY we have been involved in.?
Didn?t we have Arshavins team, the eventual winners of the UEFA Cup in our group and beat them winning every game in the group stage? Fulham played big names with big reputations of the PAST but we played teams that were up and coming that proved themselves to be good sides shortly after we had made light work of them. Teams like Hamburg, Alkmar, Zenit and Florentina were very successful either domestically or in Europe over the following couple of years. Even years before when we were drawn against Villa Real, they were the toughest team we could have faced and proved it when they reached the semi-final of the CL having knocked us out and even that was a fix.
Middlesborough and Fulham?s success was complete freak one off never to be achieved again. You talk about ?Stoke, Millwall and Cardiff having reached the FA CUP Final and Birmingham and Portsmouth have actually won trophies...Portsmouth beating Man Utd?.
Let?s not forget Portsmouth spent significant amounts of money at that time and assembled a decent side. Birmingham beat an Arsenal side that have proved that they were a team on the slide, are you saying you want a manger like McLeish who got Birmingham relegated the same season?
Again all were freak one off achievements which says to me luck had a lot to do with it. We too knocked our Liverpool and Man Utd along the way to reach a final only beaten by Chelseas millions who were the best team in Europe, wanting to win a trophy more than ever having been robbed against Barcelona.
By the way could you please tell me how Moyes bottled the final when Chelsea had their strongest team available and we were without our best defender best midfielder and top goal scorer? We lost to Florentina not because Moyes bottled it but because were beaten by the better side on the day. Florentina were an excellent side as proved the following season.
So what if Moyes has not beat the top 4 side, what team outside the top 4 has beat the top 4 in more than a one off freak match never mind on a regular basis. That is precisely the reason they are the top 4 because they tend not to lose many games because they have the best players because they have the most money.
You talk about Moyes breaking the club record transfer fee but that is irrelevant as everyone else is breaking their transfer records and spending more money. Man City Liverpool and Chelsea spend £15m on substitute?s not 1st team signings.
You talk about Moyes playing ?more adventurous, attacking style of football playing to the strength of his players and not continually playing them out of position the he probably could and more importantly WOULD win a lot more games...? How is it possible to play adventurous attacking style football if he can?t afford or have top attacking players surely he IS playing to the teams strengths by setting his team up defensively if our best players are defenders and our strikers are awful like Anichebe or unfit like Saha. He has to play his players out of position if his players or injured and if he can?t afford to bring in a striker or a winger.
Please tell me who you would play on the wing or up front at this moment in time?
?Fulham have reached the UEFA Final which Moyes has never got anywhere near....Fulham doing it from a far harder group than ANY we have been involved in.?
Didn?t we have Arshavins team, the eventual winners of the UEFA Cup in our group and beat them winning every game in the group stage? Fulham played big names with big reputations of the PAST but we played teams that were up and coming that proved themselves to be good sides shortly after we had made light work of them. Teams like Hamburg, Alkmar, Zenit and Florentina were very successful either domestically or in Europe over the following couple of years. Even years before when we were drawn against Villa Real, they were the toughest team we could have faced and proved it when they reached the semi-final of the CL having knocked us out and even that was a fix.
Middlesborough and Fulham?s success was complete freak one off never to be achieved again. You talk about ?Stoke, Millwall and Cardiff having reached the FA CUP Final and Birmingham and Portsmouth have actually won trophies...Portsmouth beating Man Utd?.
Let?s not forget Portsmouth spent significant amounts of money at that time and assembled a decent side. Birmingham beat an Arsenal side that have proved that they were a team on the slide, are you saying you want a manger like McLeish who got Birmingham relegated the same season?
Again all were freak one off achievements which says to me luck had a lot to do with it. We too knocked our Liverpool and Man Utd along the way to reach a final only beaten by Chelseas millions who were the best team in Europe, wanting to win a trophy more than ever having been robbed against Barcelona.
By the way could you please tell me how Moyes bottled the final when Chelsea had their strongest team available and we were without our best defender best midfielder and top goal scorer? We lost to Florentina not because Moyes bottled it but because were beaten by the better side on the day. Florentina were an excellent side as proved the following season.
So what if Moyes has not beat the top 4 side, what team outside the top 4 has beat the top 4 in more than a one off freak match never mind on a regular basis. That is precisely the reason they are the top 4 because they tend not to lose many games because they have the best players because they have the most money.
You talk about Moyes breaking the club record transfer fee but that is irrelevant as everyone else is breaking their transfer records and spending more money. Man City Liverpool and Chelsea spend £15m on substitute?s not 1st team signings.
You talk about Moyes playing ?more adventurous, attacking style of football playing to the strength of his players and not continually playing them out of position the he probably could and more importantly WOULD win a lot more games...? How is it possible to play adventurous attacking style football if he can?t afford or have top attacking players surely he IS playing to the teams strengths by setting his team up defensively if our best players are defenders and our strikers are awful like Anichebe or unfit like Saha. He has to play his players out of position if his players or injured and if he can?t afford to bring in a striker or a winger.
Please tell me who you would play on the wing or up front at this moment in time?
John Daley
32 Posted 05/09/2011 at 21:55:43
32 Posted 05/09/2011 at 21:55:43
"Middlesborough and Fulham?s success was complete freak one off never to be achieved again."
Middlesborough + Fulham = not a one off then.
"are you saying you want a manager like McLeish"
Do we not already have one? Mcleish comes from the same, safety first, cautious, keep things tight, school of coaching as Moyes. The two seem very similar in their character, methods and the way they set their stall out in games.
"We lost to Florentina not because Moyes bottled it but because were beaten by the better side "
Fiorentina taught us a bit of a lesson in the first leg but, to be fair, they were lucky not to get a hiding at Goodison. They were outplayed and outfought, but the amount of chances that went begging in that game was unbelievable. One of the few occasions I can recall Everton, under Moyes, going for the throat right from the off.
Middlesborough + Fulham = not a one off then.
"are you saying you want a manager like McLeish"
Do we not already have one? Mcleish comes from the same, safety first, cautious, keep things tight, school of coaching as Moyes. The two seem very similar in their character, methods and the way they set their stall out in games.
"We lost to Florentina not because Moyes bottled it but because were beaten by the better side "
Fiorentina taught us a bit of a lesson in the first leg but, to be fair, they were lucky not to get a hiding at Goodison. They were outplayed and outfought, but the amount of chances that went begging in that game was unbelievable. One of the few occasions I can recall Everton, under Moyes, going for the throat right from the off.
Ian Tunstead
33 Posted 06/09/2011 at 01:41:24
33 Posted 06/09/2011 at 01:41:24
John, I think you know what I mean. How many more finals have Fulham got to since and have they built on that success? The same goes for Middlesborough.
As for McLiesh, I don't remember Moyes getting a team relegated. You say "Mcleish comes from the same, safety first, cautious, keep things tight, school of coaching as Moyes. The two seem very similar in their character, methods and the way they set their stall out in games."
Well there you go then, if that is true then it proves it is possible for Moyes to win a trophy. Thank you for proving my point.
Nelly Verdonghan
34 Posted 06/09/2011 at 09:46:43
34 Posted 06/09/2011 at 09:46:43
At what point have I ever mentioned McLeish???
So any team or manager who's success either matches or surpasses anything Moyes has done is a FREAK occurrance hahaha... Each one of their managers have matched or surpassed Moyes's achievements so why aren't their managers considered great!?!
If you don't think Moyes bottled these games, well you obviously weren't at them. Carling Cup semi-final: 1 goal down at home... first shot on target in the 90th minute... again, you must not have been there ? and that's just for starters.
John, you are spot on about the Fiorentina game at Goodison ? one of the FEW times Moyes has gone for the throat from the off and guess what: we won! We might not have gone through but at least we tried... makes you wonder what he would achieve if he adopted this approach as the norm and not the exception.
I did ask for someone to explain what makes his a great manager... with all your freak occurrences you have still to put up a convincing arguement.
Just cos his mates say he is doesn't mean it's true.
I base my judgement of a great manager on what he has lead his team to achieve because of their influence on the team. Ferguson is a great manager... MOYES IS NOT ? he has won NOTHING!!!
So any team or manager who's success either matches or surpasses anything Moyes has done is a FREAK occurrance hahaha... Each one of their managers have matched or surpassed Moyes's achievements so why aren't their managers considered great!?!
If you don't think Moyes bottled these games, well you obviously weren't at them. Carling Cup semi-final: 1 goal down at home... first shot on target in the 90th minute... again, you must not have been there ? and that's just for starters.
John, you are spot on about the Fiorentina game at Goodison ? one of the FEW times Moyes has gone for the throat from the off and guess what: we won! We might not have gone through but at least we tried... makes you wonder what he would achieve if he adopted this approach as the norm and not the exception.
I did ask for someone to explain what makes his a great manager... with all your freak occurrences you have still to put up a convincing arguement.
Just cos his mates say he is doesn't mean it's true.
I base my judgement of a great manager on what he has lead his team to achieve because of their influence on the team. Ferguson is a great manager... MOYES IS NOT ? he has won NOTHING!!!
I do not consider McLeish to be a great manger nor Redknapp but they have won more than Moyes. Pulis is currently doing at Stoke what Moyes did when he first came to Everton... is he a GREAT manager? If he isn't then why is Moyes? Is Hodgson a great manger? He's done the same as Moyes... need I go on?
Ian Tunstead
35 Posted 06/09/2011 at 12:10:30
35 Posted 06/09/2011 at 12:10:30
Nelly, you spoke about Birmingham winning a trophy so I thought you were suggesting McLeish had the kind of winning mentality to do the same with Everton, or was it just a lucky one-off?
I have also never said Moyes was a great manager, I said he was recognised by his peers as being one of the best in the league.
I believe you can only be a great manager if you have achieved success at the highest level over a sustained period and proved it against the best in the game. Moyes, McLeish and Pulis have not done this.
I have also never said Moyes was a great manager, I said he was recognised by his peers as being one of the best in the league.
I believe you can only be a great manager if you have achieved success at the highest level over a sustained period and proved it against the best in the game. Moyes, McLeish and Pulis have not done this.
I think Pulis is a good manger on a level below Moyes, he is at the stage Moyes was at 5 years ago, only now Everton's funds have dried up and the better players have aged or moved on.
It's now a transitional period for Moyes as he has to rebuild with no money unless he sells. Why is it that whenever we are beaten by a better team with better players or if the players have an off-day or there is an injury crisis, then Moyes must have bottled it?
I have attempted to answer your questions but you still haven't answered mine. You criticise Moyes for playing players out of position, so please tell me what your side would have been against QPR, bearing in mind Saha, Arteta and Fellaini were not fit enough to start and Coleman, Gueye and Anichebe were not available? Also tell me your attacking line up for Villa?
Tony J Williams
36 Posted 06/09/2011 at 12:22:09
36 Posted 06/09/2011 at 12:22:09
Not many on here call him a "great" manager, Nelly. A lot of arguments are caused because posters call him a shit/crap/tactically naive/etc etc manager. When clearly he is not.
If he was a shit manager, he would have been sacked by now. If he was a crap manager he would have had us in the lower regions of the league by now.
He is a good but limited manager. He has many faults but the constant calling that he is useless is a bit daft considering how so many tell us how shit the players are, yet we still finish higher up in the league from where we used to before he came.
If he was a shit manager, he would have been sacked by now. If he was a crap manager he would have had us in the lower regions of the league by now.
He is a good but limited manager. He has many faults but the constant calling that he is useless is a bit daft considering how so many tell us how shit the players are, yet we still finish higher up in the league from where we used to before he came.
Nelly Verdonghan
37 Posted 06/09/2011 at 19:19:55
37 Posted 06/09/2011 at 19:19:55
Plenty on here call him great as do all his mates on MOTD.....he cannot be sacked as we do not have the cash to do so
He WILL NOT be sacked as he and Kenwrong have the same mentality...as long as we don't get relegated then it's been a good season....both accept mediocrity as success...unfortunately I and many others don't....hence many people on here questioning his abilities...
As for lack of players well there were many many free transfers available which we could have at least tried to sign and would have made a difference to our squad and/or team but we didn't even try to get them (before you ask who...just read the list of free's available in July/Aug).
With regard to the team v QPR dont be fooled by all this 'not fit to start' bullshit....I have played the game at a high level and if you're fit to be sub then you're fit to start believe me....
Saha...why did we sign this conman...we all knew what we were getting....if he couldn't motivate himself to play for Utd at the peak of his career then there is no chance of him doing so for Everton
As for Anichebe I will be glad if he is never fit to start EVER AGAIN....
If you're happy with the drivel that Moyes serves up then so be it....I (and many others like me) aren't....have you watched the last two performances (in fact the last 3 if you include Villarreal) and that's just this season... you rate Moyes I don't simple as...
If you don't think he's tactically naive then I assume you're happy with 4-5-1 at home against Wigan, WBA, Wolves, Blackburn etc and at one point 4-6-0 v QPR in a game in which he needed to score just to get a point...Some of his negative displays particularly at Anfield had to be witnessed to believed ...especially the one when they were reduced to ten men and managed to win 1-0 and we never had a meaningful shot at goal to speak of in 90 mins...
As for rebuilding...I would just love to see what he would do with a big stash of cash...NOT....this is the man who spent £10 mil on Bily FFS and now doesn't know what to do with him...
There are many more things I could list to highlight his inabilities but I know it won't make any difference because the media & his mates in the game have convinced you that he is good/great...therefore he must be so his loyalists will continue to make excuses for him.... and whilst you do so long may the silverware continue to flood in...
He WILL NOT be sacked as he and Kenwrong have the same mentality...as long as we don't get relegated then it's been a good season....both accept mediocrity as success...unfortunately I and many others don't....hence many people on here questioning his abilities...
As for lack of players well there were many many free transfers available which we could have at least tried to sign and would have made a difference to our squad and/or team but we didn't even try to get them (before you ask who...just read the list of free's available in July/Aug).
With regard to the team v QPR dont be fooled by all this 'not fit to start' bullshit....I have played the game at a high level and if you're fit to be sub then you're fit to start believe me....
Saha...why did we sign this conman...we all knew what we were getting....if he couldn't motivate himself to play for Utd at the peak of his career then there is no chance of him doing so for Everton
As for Anichebe I will be glad if he is never fit to start EVER AGAIN....
If you're happy with the drivel that Moyes serves up then so be it....I (and many others like me) aren't....have you watched the last two performances (in fact the last 3 if you include Villarreal) and that's just this season... you rate Moyes I don't simple as...
If you don't think he's tactically naive then I assume you're happy with 4-5-1 at home against Wigan, WBA, Wolves, Blackburn etc and at one point 4-6-0 v QPR in a game in which he needed to score just to get a point...Some of his negative displays particularly at Anfield had to be witnessed to believed ...especially the one when they were reduced to ten men and managed to win 1-0 and we never had a meaningful shot at goal to speak of in 90 mins...
As for rebuilding...I would just love to see what he would do with a big stash of cash...NOT....this is the man who spent £10 mil on Bily FFS and now doesn't know what to do with him...
There are many more things I could list to highlight his inabilities but I know it won't make any difference because the media & his mates in the game have convinced you that he is good/great...therefore he must be so his loyalists will continue to make excuses for him.... and whilst you do so long may the silverware continue to flood in...
Ian Tunstead
38 Posted 06/09/2011 at 20:22:25
38 Posted 06/09/2011 at 20:22:25
Haha Nelly you have still avoided answering the question after the 2nd time of asking about what your team would be.
The reason I believe you won't answer it is because you know you would have to play players out of position thus contradicting your whole argument.
Clearly Saha and Arteta were not fit to start by watching their performace. I too have played a bit of football and I have experienced how difficult it is to play to your normal ability when you have had to miss pre-season through injury. Moyes knew that and decided not to play them but was forced into bringing them on out of desperation, because..... we don't have the money to bring in the players. Even these free transfers you talk about, we couldn't even afford their wages, why do you think Moyes had to send so many players out on loan last season? Players have to leave before any come in.
The reason I believe you won't answer it is because you know you would have to play players out of position thus contradicting your whole argument.
Clearly Saha and Arteta were not fit to start by watching their performace. I too have played a bit of football and I have experienced how difficult it is to play to your normal ability when you have had to miss pre-season through injury. Moyes knew that and decided not to play them but was forced into bringing them on out of desperation, because..... we don't have the money to bring in the players. Even these free transfers you talk about, we couldn't even afford their wages, why do you think Moyes had to send so many players out on loan last season? Players have to leave before any come in.
Nelly Verdonghan
39 Posted 07/09/2011 at 09:38:01
39 Posted 07/09/2011 at 09:38:01
Moyes was playing people out of position well before this current season....Anichebe has been playing there for the last two seasons....Neville & Heitinga since they arrived...he even did it with Fellini & Jagielka when they first came.....that's just to name a few
I will conceed that on occassions it may be neccessary to play the odd player out of position if NEEDS MUST but Moyes does it when he has a full squad to choose from...and please don't say he doesn't....
As for Saha....I thought he was living in an oxygen tent to ensure his fitness for the start of the season....he is the biggest conman ever to pull on a blue shirt.
I can't name a starting line up as you suggest as at this moment in time I dont even know who will be available on saturday but you can bet your bottom dollar that if we a full squad then I would pick each player in his most suitable position unlike Moyes.....
I will conceed that on occassions it may be neccessary to play the odd player out of position if NEEDS MUST but Moyes does it when he has a full squad to choose from...and please don't say he doesn't....
As for Saha....I thought he was living in an oxygen tent to ensure his fitness for the start of the season....he is the biggest conman ever to pull on a blue shirt.
I can't name a starting line up as you suggest as at this moment in time I dont even know who will be available on saturday but you can bet your bottom dollar that if we a full squad then I would pick each player in his most suitable position unlike Moyes.....
Ian Tunstead
40 Posted 07/09/2011 at 12:13:35
40 Posted 07/09/2011 at 12:13:35
The truth is Nelly its been on very rare occasions that Moyes has had a full squad to chose from, that is why it is very rare that you will see Moyes play every player in their prefered position.
Do you realy believe if Moyes had the money to have 2 top players in every position that he would play people out of position?
I think you should be able to excuse some circumstances when players have been played out of position especially early on with players like Fellaini, Jaggs and Heitinger, when you are still trying to establish the players best position.
I think it was you or Ged who admitted it was essential to bring in a holding/defensive midfielder after Carsley left so i think it was worth seeing how Jaggs and Heitinga got on in the role considering their previous teams had deployed them there.
It didnt work out with Jaggs and Heitnga, although probably more suited to CB i would still say he is our best defensive midfielder. As for Fellaini it was clear he was struggling early on getting booked nearly every game and giving away silly fouls in dangerous positions, so for the time being until he adapted to the prem, i think it was necessary for his own good and for Everton that he had the defensive resposibility taken away from him. But he still needed to be in the side if he was going to develop.
My point is, most of the time when Moyes plays people out of position there is usual a reasonable explanation behind it. I'm not saying he gets it right all the time but he gets it right more than most.
Do you realy believe if Moyes had the money to have 2 top players in every position that he would play people out of position?
I think you should be able to excuse some circumstances when players have been played out of position especially early on with players like Fellaini, Jaggs and Heitinger, when you are still trying to establish the players best position.
I think it was you or Ged who admitted it was essential to bring in a holding/defensive midfielder after Carsley left so i think it was worth seeing how Jaggs and Heitinga got on in the role considering their previous teams had deployed them there.
It didnt work out with Jaggs and Heitnga, although probably more suited to CB i would still say he is our best defensive midfielder. As for Fellaini it was clear he was struggling early on getting booked nearly every game and giving away silly fouls in dangerous positions, so for the time being until he adapted to the prem, i think it was necessary for his own good and for Everton that he had the defensive resposibility taken away from him. But he still needed to be in the side if he was going to develop.
My point is, most of the time when Moyes plays people out of position there is usual a reasonable explanation behind it. I'm not saying he gets it right all the time but he gets it right more than most.
Robbie Muldoon
41 Posted 07/09/2011 at 12:43:14
41 Posted 07/09/2011 at 12:43:14
"Fellaini looks world class as defensive mid" ? what is this? Ian Tunstead chatting?
Michael Brien
42 Posted 08/09/2011 at 07:23:46
42 Posted 08/09/2011 at 07:23:46
Ian - part of the problem I have with David Moyes is that he is apparently obssessed with 4-5-1. Yes of course there are times when we would all expect us to play such a formation - even I wouldn't expect us to play 4-3-3 away at Arsenal !! However when we are playing one striker in approx 95% of our matches!!!
You will no doubt mention injuries and a lack of depth in the squad. But in the QPR match he brought on Fellani for Beckford and we had no recognised striker on the pitch, we were losing 0-1 with about 30 minutes to go and we had 3 strikers on the bench!!! That was a move that really didn't do much for the confidence of the guys left on the bench did it ?
In my opinion David Moyes is the most frustrating manager that we have had since Gordon Lee in the late 1970's. Lee was a manager who went more for the "work ethic" approach from his strikers - so he preferred Pearson, Telfer and Walsh to McKenzie. I think that Moyes is very much in the same mould.
Just like Gordon Lee seemed not to know how to get the best from his striker - with the honourable exceptions of Latchford and Eastoe I think it is the same with Moyes. In his time as manager we have gone through several strikers - I don't believe that they have all been bad players - I think that a major problem has been that we have a manager who doesn't use his strikers/forwards to their full potential. For instance I feel sorry for Anichebe who more often than not has been played out of position.
You will no doubt mention injuries and a lack of depth in the squad. But in the QPR match he brought on Fellani for Beckford and we had no recognised striker on the pitch, we were losing 0-1 with about 30 minutes to go and we had 3 strikers on the bench!!! That was a move that really didn't do much for the confidence of the guys left on the bench did it ?
In my opinion David Moyes is the most frustrating manager that we have had since Gordon Lee in the late 1970's. Lee was a manager who went more for the "work ethic" approach from his strikers - so he preferred Pearson, Telfer and Walsh to McKenzie. I think that Moyes is very much in the same mould.
Just like Gordon Lee seemed not to know how to get the best from his striker - with the honourable exceptions of Latchford and Eastoe I think it is the same with Moyes. In his time as manager we have gone through several strikers - I don't believe that they have all been bad players - I think that a major problem has been that we have a manager who doesn't use his strikers/forwards to their full potential. For instance I feel sorry for Anichebe who more often than not has been played out of position.
Ian Tunstead
43 Posted 08/09/2011 at 17:38:38
43 Posted 08/09/2011 at 17:38:38
Robbie what are you chatting? What number post did i say Fellaini was world class? I dont remember saying it and i cant find it anywhere.
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1 Posted 03/09/2011 at 15:25:56
'Biffa' is out of contract, availble on a cheapo deal & linked with a return by some sources today.