A Sad Day to Be an Evertonian

By Richard   Gillham  ::  11/09/2011   76 Comments (»Last) My day started by picking up my son and heading over to Goodison Park for two purposes: one was to use my right of free speech as a British citizen, and right as an Evertonian who has spent on average £1000 a season since my son was born 17 years ago and more money since I was 16 five years previously, along with all the money my father spent since 1972, as do many of my fellow Evertonians. Secondly to support the team I love and worship like a religion, nothing but the love of my wife and my two children makes me happier than watching my beloved blues at the church of Goodison.

With regards to the March, we gathered together in the rain and marched together peacefully wearing scarves and Blue Union t-shirts, we were exerting our right to free speech as do all the supporters of the club.

During the game, we saw carefully edited shots of Bill Kenwright which had two reactions: boos and support, that doesn?t matter what camp you're in, what it does is show the fans are split and as the wins dry up the tide will turn even more.

We drew the game, with a small squad who did play for the shirt, but with a bigger squad the score may have been 2 points better off. But with watching mid to late 70s, Mike Walker's mediocre side etc, I left the ground it feeling like a defeat against a team we love to hate due to a certain League Cup Final in the 76-77 season.

But that wasn?t the saddest part of my day, a day which being an Evertonian will not be forgotten for the wrong reason. We always go to St Francis Xavier club near the Aldi for an after-match drink, discuss the ups and downs of being Evertonian. The moment was when my 17-year-old son, who was wearing a Blue Union t-shirt, was leaving the club with me, he was given abuse by so-called Evertonians, "knobhead" was the word they used...

How I kept my dignity, I don?t know, how I never caused mayhem I don?t know. Let them hold their heads in shame, just like the freeloading Board. But you know what, I want my 17-year-old to see silverware, not be happy with a penalty shoot-out win at Wembley.

So I will continue to fight for the right to free speech, the right to support my club, and the right with the Blue Union to want the best, because NIL SATIS NISI OPTINUM IS NOT WHAT OUR BOARD IS PORTRAYING.

Bill, I know you?re a blue and so am I, so you're not any different; stop telling us you love the club. Do the right thing: if you love the club ? let it go.

Reader Comments (76)

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Chris Jones [NZ]
1 Posted 11/09/2011 at 16:10:20
You say "so-called Evertonians", maybe they would characterise you and your son in the same manner?

Obviously there is a great divide among Evertonians at the moment. Let's hope it doesn't become a schism.

Keep the faith Richard, and keep supporting the lads in Royal Blue.
Kim-Eirik Ovesen
2 Posted 11/09/2011 at 16:26:53
Richard Gillham, if you want BK to sell you the club, you are better of calling BK so that Everton can send in their accountant for a Due Dilligence of your finances. Get the point?? I dont want Evertonians turning on each other, but please do not ruin this club by wishing for worse and kicking out the best that this club has had since it almost collapsed those 10ish years ago. Protest when a great alternative is around. By that time you may not have to protest though. I trust BK to make the right decision then, and if the buyer is not right, I trust him to keep the club and DM for as long as he can.
Steve Guy
3 Posted 11/09/2011 at 16:24:08
Sad indeed Richard. As you say, you were exercising free speech and quite right too. The only idiots are the ones who didn't want you to do that.

I stood at the Reception area on Goodison Road as a clearly angry Rob Elstone stood watched the demonstration. I'm not sure what he was angry about, maybe it was because of the actuality of what was happening or that the numbers were clearly more than the 200 claimed by the Club. We shouldn't get caught up in the numbers though. My Dad's a Red and he agreed that the number wasn't the issue, that the point had been made. Maybe that's what was getting Elstone aerated, because he knew that too.

I also caught Dave Prentice on my phone camera, so I await his views come Monday.

I thought the atmosphere was great at the game and the whole crowd got behind the team as was promised and as it should be. The game was only marred by the worryingly Stalinesque reaction to Bill BS's face coming up on the screen. The applause which greeted his first appearance was a reaction to the significant boos that preceded. After what seemed like 30 seconds his face appears again to even greater applause. Some have already commented that they felt this was orchestrated and I don't know either way for sure. All I will say is the Club has full control of what is screened inside the ground and I don't remember Billy's mugshot being a feature in previous seasons. Would his face have appeared a second time, if only booing had occurred in the first instance?

What were people applauding by the way? Two failed ground moves? A failure to attract serious investment? The selling off of all our fixed assets bar one? The selling off of key players to finance the debt? Did they feel sorry for the man who is now styling himself as a victim in all this with the full co-operation of media and ex-players?

Finally I'm also disappointed by the players in this. They should not be getting involved. They get paid to play football ? not politcs. They are with us for a short time, whilst the Club will (hopefully) be here long after they've moved onto their next paycheck.

The acolytes may have been able to use the applause yesterday to soothe the Dear Leader into believing that all is well; but far fewer fans are deluded than there were in January (as the latest accounts were published) and fewer still after recent events. In the end there will only be one deluded soul, still chirping about how he is the only one capable of leading our Club as he skips down the road to Oblivion, taking us all with him.
David O'Keefe
4 Posted 11/09/2011 at 17:01:14
A sad day for Bill Kenwright he has been reduced to the status of a talent show contestant. How th mighty have fallen.
Dick Anderson
5 Posted 11/09/2011 at 17:17:05
How many more posts must we be subjected to telling Bill Kenwright to let go of the club?

FFS. Dont you people read the news????

Kenwright has put the club up for sale. He's letting go. He's doing exactly what you want.

All these protests and Toffeeweb posts are pointless. Kenwright has already agreed to do what you all want.

Just be patient. Kenwright can't magic up a billionaire from thin air. It will happen eventually.
Jay Woods
6 Posted 11/09/2011 at 17:29:43
@ Dick Anderson (#5): Until it happens, many Evertonians - myself included - will never rest to press for it to happen because inertia / drift / doing nothing gets you nowhere.
Phil Bellis
7 Posted 11/09/2011 at 17:27:19
OK Dick @'5, forgot the "news" is always true
For a minute there, I thought we were in danger of struggling this season with such a small squad
Thank God for Moyes?
Richard (OP)..."f off yer knobheads" was the battle cry of the satisfied tendancy as an acoustic civil war broke out briefly around me in the Lower Gwladys, in response to the booing of Chairman Kenwright's mug; a worrying taste of what is likely to happen the longer it takes to reach the magic 43
What with this and Kirkby, we've not seen such disunity among the support since 1892
Dick Anderson
8 Posted 11/09/2011 at 17:37:11
Jay Woods

You say inertia / drift / doing nothing gets you nowhere but where does being a whiny little bitch get you??

Your like a bunch of kids who have seen a toy they wanted. Please Daddy can I have that toy. Please Daddy can I have that toy. And no matter how many times you say yes they keep on asking until you buy it. Please Daddy can I have that toy.

FFS.

You have asked for the club to be sold. Mr Kenwright has agreed to sell the club.

Stop being whiny little bitches and give it some time. It takes time to find a billionaire.
Nick Entwistle
9 Posted 11/09/2011 at 17:35:44
Doesn't help when Cahill does his bit for his paymasters either. Gives license for the division to become hostile.
Brian Waring
10 Posted 11/09/2011 at 17:56:56
" Whiny little bitches " Dick, you want to listen to yourself on the matchday threads.
Jay Woods
11 Posted 11/09/2011 at 17:59:44
Dick, a "whiny little bitch?" Is that worse than being the board's little bitch instead?

I would not believe a word your mate / employer / whatever-he-is-to-you "Mr" Kenwright would swear on his mother's grave, so his affirmation of anything is almost a bankable denial of its veracity.

So... I and others will keep the pressure on until this buffoon is gone and no amount of scorn from you or your ilk will alter that. On the contrary, it adds fuel to the flames.
Phil Bellis
12 Posted 11/09/2011 at 18:03:23
"but where does being a whiny little bitch get you?"
wouldn't now Dick; please give us the benefit of your experience

And just remember.., you can't hurry billionaires, no, you just have to wait (didn't take Ivana Zelníčková long, though)
Jon Beck
13 Posted 11/09/2011 at 17:58:18
Sad your son was called a knobhead Richard, he is entitled to his opinion. Unfortunately, he won't be the last on either side of the divide.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion by the way, match goers, armchair watchers, players, Elstone, whoever!

Mine is, whether the number was 100 or a 1000 yesterday, it was a very small percentage of the match going support on the day. And as for the clown with the cake......I respect your opinion, but would never employ your tactics.
James Stewart
14 Posted 11/09/2011 at 18:09:13
Bullshit Bill has not put us up for sale Dick.

All he wants is for investment so he can keep his slimy hands onto the little power he has left.

I am not part of Blue Union but good look to them. Any enemy of Blue Bill is a friend of mine.
Alasdair Mackay
15 Posted 11/09/2011 at 18:07:38
Richard. I do not condone in any way the two Evertonians who called your son a "knobhead", but I would like you to explain the difference between that and the boos that rang out when Kenwright appeared on the big screen.

If you are fighting for free speech then you are fighting for these two Evertonians as much as you are fighting for your right to march against the Kenwright regime.
David O'Keefe
16 Posted 11/09/2011 at 18:16:29
Alaisdair: Abusing a stranger is not a free speech issue its a lack of respect/decency issue.
Liam Appleby
17 Posted 11/09/2011 at 18:22:16
I'm sorry but a title saying "A sad day to be an Evertonian" given the content of this article is slightly over the top. Of course nobody deserves to be called a knobhead for having an opinion.

But get a grip, fans are always going to be divided. I don't think Tony Hibbert should be anywhere near the first XI, of course there will be a minority of fans who think he is probably our best right back. We have differing opinions, someone might call me a Knobhead at the game for calling Hibbert shite. I wouldn't take it to heart.

Personally I don't agree with the tactics used by Blue Union. I do see it as a bit of a waste of time, but that's my opinion. I trust that Bill is trying his best to sell the club, I might be wrong but I'll back him. Call me a knobhead, I won't lose any sleep or decide to write an article on it. As long as we get behind the team and give it all we have like we did Saturday, neither side should be getting their knickers in a twist.

Karl Masters
18 Posted 11/09/2011 at 18:27:23
BK has the skin of a rhino.

He's hanging on till the economic situation picks up worldwide.

Remember he has just said, 'nobody is buying football clubs' (clearly nonsense ?QPR ) but that translates as, 'nobody is prepared / daft enough [delete as you see fit] to pay the price I want.'

You could view this 2 ways I suppose:

1) He's a greedy so and so and/or has to get what Green and Earl want for the Club.

2) He wants to pass us over to a billionaire who can do a Man City, rather than a Carson Yeung.

Could even be both......
James Morgan
19 Posted 11/09/2011 at 19:09:16
Dick by name...
Jay Woods
20 Posted 11/09/2011 at 19:27:24
@ Karl Masters: The economic situation worldwide is not going to pick up for decades and the worst is yet to come. If Bill is waiting for a recovery, he will be carried out of Goodison before that happens.
John Audsley
22 Posted 11/09/2011 at 19:27:24
Richard

Hats of to you sir, well done for not having ago back, not sure I would have been able to do that if someone did that to one of my two lads but I am over-protective.

Dick

"Whiny Little Bitchs", you have made some comments in the past matey but that's a bit far, yer grumpy twat.
Trevor Mackie
23 Posted 11/09/2011 at 19:40:34
Appalling behaviour as are some of the replies clearly revelling in it - vindictive little shits.

I just don't go now, this Everton is shite from board to playing staff including the manager but the majority love it, the BU has flushed out the true feelings and fans are happy with 7th or 8th.

It's bollocks in my opinion but that's the way it is - you can only vote with your feet especially if you encounter heathenous vermin as you did.
Karl Masters
25 Posted 11/09/2011 at 20:28:37
Jay Woods.

You are probably right, but try convincing Bill, Phil and Bob. ( Green and Earl not Carter and Elstone ).

If I was BK I'd accept the £20m I put in. I would have to view the fact that i had not made a profit as being the price I paid for being the figurehead of my Club for 12 years and for taking debt and liabilities through the vroof in that time.

In all honesty, the current Board have made such a bad job economically of running the Club they don't even deserve the £20m.

HOWEVER, one thing must be remembered. There is no point selling out to a Venkys or Carson Yeung as that's just frying pan to fire. We need the RIGHT type of Buyer who will do a Man City and that is why they are probably looking to China where there is no EPL owner, humungous potential and a country fairly insulated from the economic downturn in the West.
Jamie Barlow
26 Posted 11/09/2011 at 20:23:13
Spot on Brian@10.
Brian Williams
27 Posted 11/09/2011 at 20:11:29
It's so sad to see Evertonians calling other Evertonians, especially when the ones who are being called "knobhead" or whatever are obviously doing something because they care tremendously about the club. Whether one agress with what they're doing or not, it should be obvious that they're doing it because of their love of the club.

I won't try to go into when the decline started, or why, but the situation we're in now is one we're not likely to get out of anytime soon.

Bill Kenwright bought the club at a time when a true Evertonian was needed at the helm and, love him or loathe him, Bill Kenwright loves our club as much as the next lifelong Evertonian. I know this as a fact.

I also know that Bill bought the club with promises of financial support from "friends" and business associates. He also bought the club letting his head rule his heart and not really thinking five, ten, or more years ahead.

If you knew the man, you really couldn't question his credentials as a real Evertonian, but if you knew him you'd also know that Bill looks on things in a slightly different way to you and me. He's naive beyond belief when it comes to high finance and the cut and thrust of football as the business it is today. On the business side of the club he's almost clueless.

He is however, as are we, in the predicament of wanting to sell a business which is deep in debt, in need of a new "head office" (err that's a ground by the way) and a business which happens to be in competition with other companys in the exact same business, which are more profitable, better run, and in a lot less debt.

He DOES want to sell the club, but he wants to get it exactly right as it would kill him to sell it to the wrong people and see the club be in an even worse situation than it is now, which is quite bad, to say the least.

He's looking at it from a point of view of "Well, I'm an Evertonian and I'm not going to sell to someone who isn't, unless they've got an fortune and who will promise to take the club forward in a way that for me (Bill, that is) is the way an Evertonian wants."

He knows he's out of his depth, financially and with regard to business acumen. He wanted to take over for a couple of years, stabilise the club, and then sell it to some really rich types who'd take the club onwards and upwards.

Unfortunately he din't realise what went with buying a club, and he didn't foresee (like many didn't) the world financial crisis that would hit us.

I don't dislike Bill Kenwright. He loves the club as much as you or I, but I do know that he's out of his depth. He knows it too.

Robert Penlington
28 Posted 11/09/2011 at 20:45:53
I have been an Everton fan since 1961. I have witnessed the good times and the bad but I have never witnessed anyone person involved with Everton Football Club that has ever split the fan base,not once but twice.

Bill Kenwright ? hang your head in shame.
Michael Kenrick
29 Posted 11/09/2011 at 20:51:08
Great post, Brian. That is the most believable and sympathetic description of Blue Bill I have read. It highlites I believe the paradox Blue Union now face (perhaps have allways faced) in trying move us forward.


Ironically, Blue Union backed away from calling for Kenwright to step down, and I believe that was a mistake, because it has seriously weakened their message. But it was obviously done in the hope of getting more fence-sitters onside, which it may have done. I think the march attendance was good, far better than it could have been if there was little support for their cause...


But clearly Kenwright needs to step down first.
He needs to relinquish control of the club. That's what Johnson did, almost a year before Kenwright's True Blue Holdings bought him out.

Gavin Ramejkis
30 Posted 11/09/2011 at 21:12:41
Brian, I've had similar conversations with others regarding the mental state of BK; I openly thoroughly dislike the man for his divisive actions over the KD and subsequent treatment of Paul Gregg to retain control, the fans with FSF and the doomed DK project.

Whilst I retain this dislike, I'd never wish mental health issues on anyone but he needs to end this himself as no-one but BK can. Whatever price he asks must be better than becoming a pariah whose lasting Evertonian credentials could be the chairman that killed the club.

The protest has clearly had an effect on many as I've not seen so many newly appearing pro-BK posts on this website since DK. If people choose not to join in the protests then fair play and they are fully entitled to their opinion but it's childish to claim some form of moral high ground by calling people knobheads for taking part, if they don't like the march, they didn't take part and thats how it ends or should end.

I've friends who were genuinely scared of some of the urban myths flying around before the march of being banned from the ground afterwards to go to the match or that fights would start. Posters here worried about taking children - even though Evertonians have a very bloody long history of being some of the best behaved fans I have known over 40 years.

Several of the marchers went into the game to watch and enjoy the game and cheer the team on, thus genuinely proving we are no more or less "real" Evertonians than those who went to the game and didn't take part in the march. I retain my dignity and have no shame in saying I took part and will again; if others chose not to, then they are entitled to... but throw mud and it will be thrown back by many ? and that breaks our combined dignity.
Ian Smitham
31 Posted 11/09/2011 at 21:54:15
Gavin, we have crossed swards previously, and differ in our views, I think. But your comments above are, in my opinion, excellent and exactly how I feel.

Equally, Brian, I feel the same as you. I think that your summary depicts an accurate record.

As for the OP, I sit in the Winslow before most games and keep my peace to myself; I engage in discussion with others from time to time with my lads around me, and it costs a lot to go to the game, so to be treated as you were feels a bit bad to me and if it happened to me I hope that I would restrain myself in a similar way.

All-in-all, a bit of a sad situation. Not ideal.
Jon Cox
32 Posted 11/09/2011 at 22:31:10
Gavin,(28)

Good man !
Dick Anderson
33 Posted 11/09/2011 at 23:09:53
Look I'm sorry everyone. Your all entitled to your opinion and if you want to protest and make signs then its up to you.

Personally I feel that sort of thing is very tacky and not justified considering all the other problems in the world which could use your attentions.

I could understand if Kenwright was refusing to sell the club. But Mr Kenwright has agreed to sell the club. He had 3 meetings last week. It is happening.

I see fans protesting and I cant help feeling its below Evertonians. Its Redshite behaviour.

Its dividing the fans. Its upsetting the players. Its creating more bad vibes around Goodison.

I'm an Evertoinian. I'll support the club no matter what. Whether we have money for new siginings or not doesn't matter to me.

Protesting because we haven't signed new players...............its soooooooooooo Redshite.
Jim Lloyd
34 Posted 11/09/2011 at 23:11:38
Dick, you are aptly named.
The majority of the posts on this thread have been, as true evertonians are, measured and considerate.
You, on the otehr hand have contributed nothing but bile. go away and spew it elsewhere.
There is an awful atmosphere brewing akin to the civil war when, as fariprt Covention said "with brothetr killing brother". well hopefully it won't get to that extreme but I'm afraid the man, who some on here have sympathised with as a"blue doing his best cos he's one of us" is killing this club.
"A good lad" misunderstood" n"if you only know him as I do". Christ almighty. He killed off Kings Dock because of his own belief that he should be in charge. He trumped up "Fortress Sports" backing when Gregg looked like he could threaten his position and he would have taken usd to the fuckin desert of kirkby (not the people nor the town but it would have killed us right off.)
Itm is sad, it is awful. Theer areb people who, in my eyes, are brave enough to say ther is something drastically wrong and they are beibng abused for doing so. That's awful. I've stopped going as its the only way I know of showing my distaste at what this man and his crew are doing to our club. I apologise for not having the bottle to join those 1000 people who have begun the fight back.
Never mind him "being a good blue" the man's a bloody charlatan and this club will go down in history as a dying giant if change doesnt happen soon.
Tony K
35 Posted 11/09/2011 at 23:45:12
Dick you are a victim of "Bill spin".
"He had 3 meetings last week"!! (to sell the club)
Do you seriously believe that?
As for the Red shite comments, thats just nonsensical and severely weakens your argument to anyone with a brain. Whenever anyone protests about their board from now on will it be Redshite behaviour because they(the Redshite) invented protests??
Gavin Ramejkis
36 Posted 11/09/2011 at 23:47:49
Dick, I've not risen to your bait yet but I feel compelled to from your last post.

Nowhere on the face of this planet do the RS have the copyright for protests, its a means since time immemorial of people to show their joint disatisfaction and unity for a cause. Throughout the ages people far greater than I have protested about far greater things and there have been many countries where they chose to protest and faced terrible punishment for doing so, this country is a democracy and we have every right to protest without the ridiculous tags of RS being suggested.
Kevin Freaney
37 Posted 12/09/2011 at 00:18:11
I've got to the stage now where I'm trying to avoid the whole issue because of the abuse I've received from fellow fans. Recently I was called a closet red because I supported the protest and the other day I was called a kopite. I'm hating this division in us.

But I'm putting this on here just to say ? and I know I'm going to get another load of abuse for this ? that's it's not the fanbase causing this division, it's not the Blue Union. It's the board at the club that are feeding this division in the fans... and it's this division that will keep them in power.

All Kenwright and the board need to do is come and out and talk to us, ease the tension in the supporters, but they're not; they're fighting any kind of free speech and thereby causing a massive division in us.

As for the posts on here about what more can Kenwright do, the club is up for sale... how many years do you have to have something for sale? It's obviously not working and getting someone independent in there to work the sale has to be answer.

Put it this way: Kenwright is a massive fan, that I will never doubt. Put yourself in his position: you own and run Everton. A fans dream. The new buyer won't want him as chairman, would you throw that away? He doesn't want to sell... would you in his position?
Jim Lloyd
38 Posted 12/09/2011 at 00:28:53
Well said Kevin.
Phil Bellis
39 Posted 12/09/2011 at 00:59:11
Dick, I have read your posts and considered your points therein long and hard; I have read them, giving due account to the current misma of diverse opinion and angst among Evertonians...and, having taken all the above into account, you sir, are talking bollocks.

Big time club; small time Board.

Thomas Williams
40 Posted 12/09/2011 at 01:07:36
The saddest thing about yesterday was BK using his 92-year-old mother as an abuse shield, disgusting.
Chad Schofield
41 Posted 12/09/2011 at 01:11:57
Dick, seriously why trivialise this by saying that the protest was over us not signing players?

I know you've read through tonnes of opinion, so it's pretty galling to see you being unnecessarily provocative.

Richard, well done for keeping your cool.
Bob Parrington
42 Posted 12/09/2011 at 01:42:47
Richard - good opener. You did well. Best ignore. Teaches your lad a good lesson and probably infuriated the guys who made the comment. Everton fans are some of the best or are the best I've witnessed over the many years I've followed the club.

The message keeps booming out. Change the composition of the Board. Assuming, at the board meetings, it is one man one vote (as it's not a shareholder meeting), it can't be just BK. Either others have the same views as BK or there are some "gutless wonders" on the board who are scared to argue with him.
COYB
Martin Mason
43 Posted 12/09/2011 at 03:05:12
One thing is obvious and that is that there's no groundswell of suport for the protest, no critical mass amongst the fans and none of the players support it.
Martin Mason
44 Posted 12/09/2011 at 04:23:59
Calling genuinely concerned Everton fans for joining in the protest is absolutely unacceptable though. Perhaps the Blue Union should reach out to the majority of Evertonians who want to see improvement but not the type of radical change that can easily destroy the club. Surely a united front is far better than divide and rule?
Stephen Kenny
45 Posted 12/09/2011 at 07:54:58
Brian,

"but if you knew him you'd also know that Bill looks on things in a slightly different way to you and me. He's naive beyond belief when it comes to high finance and the cut and thrust of football as the business it is today. On the business side of the club he's almost clueless."

You write as if you know Bill?

Surely then all the above means he's absolutely the wrong person to sell our club? All the BU are asking is for him to appoint an indepent to sell us. Based on your own (informed) view this is the correct path for us to take?

One thing I haven't really seen is his credentials as an Evertonian called into question. Many are now just realising that they don't matter at all.
Richard Dodd
46 Posted 12/09/2011 at 08:21:03
As with Kirkby, the present situation is indicative of how quickly Evertonians turn in on each other almost as soon as `a difference of opinion` surfaces. I have lost count of the number of times I have been called `a knobhead` both on this board and whilst expressing my views at Goodison. Hell, I once lost my job because `an Evertonian` with a different view to me complained to my employers that I was `misusing Council resources by contributing to Toffeeweb on a too regular basis`.

It`s all a bit like politics: you can never pursuade the other guy to your view but that never stops you trying. But you can still respect each other`s right to hold those opinions and go easy on the abuse.

Matthew Mackey
47 Posted 12/09/2011 at 09:15:28
Your last line ref BW;- "........if you love the club ? let it go. "

To who??? Someone like Carson Youngs brother? Be careful what you ask for.
Gordon Blair
48 Posted 12/09/2011 at 10:59:56
Dick A,

Hate to be the one to tell you mate, but I think Rossy's guessed your password ;-)
Gordon Blair
49 Posted 12/09/2011 at 11:01:34
I can sympathise with those who worry about profiteers coming in, but am now sure how likely that is:

We have very few assets left to strip, the ONLY real potential buyers we could be in the market for are vanity owners and minted fans.

There is very little upside for the likes of a Peter Lim, or a Carson Yeung ? we are already punchng considerably above our weight. There isn't much to gain in taking 1 step up (Europa Lge) and the investment required and competition for two steps up (CL) means that it is far too risky proposition. Not the quick returns you'd get from an under achieving large club outside the top Division.

So, that leaves us with a vanity owner, or a minted fan... how long we have to wait for that, and if Bill is truly ready to hand over the reigns (as perhaps he should have done to Gregg) remains to be seen.

Amit Vithlani
50 Posted 12/09/2011 at 11:27:24
Matthew / Gordon

If I have understood the BU position correctly, the sale of the club is NOT the only answer.

They are advocating a professional board to find multiple solutions, of which a sale clearly would be the most logical.

It could be that such a board can also implement an interim plan to stabilise the financial situation and bring in fresh, viable ideas to bring in more streams of revenue.

The criticisms of the current board boil down to one issue: they have shown a consistent knack of ballsing things up, be it stadium (Kings Dock, Kirkby), commercial projects (recent redevelopment initiatives which have gone quiet) or administrative (Gosling contract).

Each of these badly managed initiatives has cost the club time and lost revenues.

In addition, having heard BK's interview with the BU, it is clear that the man lacks any financial acumen and, as holder of a big chunk of shares in the club, that is a very worrying state of affairs.
Adam Bennett
51 Posted 12/09/2011 at 11:46:17
Dick (31) ??protesting is sooooooooooo redshite??

So, the protests against Peter Johnson in 1998, was that soooooooooooo redshite? Considering it was a full 12 years before any ?redshite? protested.

This thing that protesting is for Liverpool fans is complete and utter fucking horseshit.
Gavin Ramejkis
52 Posted 12/09/2011 at 11:51:44
Matthew the careful what you wish for has already been done to death - the current incumbents have made it clear the wont invest into the club and not one of them has brought anything to the table either, all a change can guarantee is change, keeping the status quo can guarantee more of the lack of acumen and complete disregard to investment the club has had for 12 years, how much longer is that model sustainable?
Martin Mason
53 Posted 12/09/2011 at 12:17:46
Gavin

Given the unknowns associated with change are you prepared to riskthe equally or perhaps more likely scenario that change nhas the opposit effect and makes catastrophe out of what is already a very bad situation. A hint of positivity from somewhere would be a welcome relief.
Paul Gladwell
54 Posted 12/09/2011 at 12:21:12
How come these hardcases involved in having a right dig at the protestors on here or like in the original thread, in a pub, had no balls to stand outside the directors entrance and spout their shit to the protestors there? No doubt there were a few watching all silent.
Michael Brien
55 Posted 12/09/2011 at 13:28:10
Richard Dodd #44 ".....you can still respect each other`s right to hold those opinions and go easy on the abuse. .."

I totally agree - I am not suggesting we all "whistle a happy tune" or do a Mary Poppins " simply remember our favourite things.." However I am concerned - and I am sure that I am not the only Evertonian to be concerned at the potential damage that could be done - by the expression of differences of opinion.

Yes I know there will be those out there who will say what about the damage caused by BK ? I am not suggesting for one minute that people should not have an opinion - for example some will think Bret Angel the worst striker to wear the Royal Blue shirt others like me will think Bernie Wright !! It's not the holding or having an opinion that is the problem - it is the expression of that opinion that has the potential to cause problems.

Some of the comments from " across the divide" are basically abusive. Both sides are guilty of this.Surely we all want to see Everton do well - as Richard has suggested let's all be careful in how we express our opinions. Resorting to abuse is not going to do any good.
Sam Hoare
56 Posted 12/09/2011 at 13:40:45
All this division feels rather surreal to me... especially as on the pitch i really don't feel that things are really any different to how they have been for years.

Nothing wrong with some good debate but we must try to remember that ultimately we are all on the same side... it would be extremely sad if the 'knobhead' instance referred to in the OP became common place.

Personally I think that Bill has made some pretty bad mistakes but not selling the club to any old billionaire who shows a smidgeon of interest is not one of them. That road can lead two ways...we might be Man City and we might be Portsmouth. Honestly I'm not that sure I would want to be either.
Brian Williams
57 Posted 12/09/2011 at 13:59:18
Stephen Kenny #43.

I personally think that would be the way forward yes, but, BK's (doubt it or not) blind love of the club stands in the way, that, and the fact that he's getting advice from person/s that seek to line their own pockets, and couldn't give a toss about the club.

By the way. BK ISN'T holding out for a huge profit, or to line his own pockets, trust me!

Should he step down, or sell the club? thats got to be a resounding yes!

But I have to say again and it pains me to do so....we're not that good a business proposition I'm afraid!

Reducing the debt while trying to maintain a respectable league position in order to make us a more attractive proposition is what's needed...say by selling a near 30 year old for a good sum (seems to be the general feeling) and bringing in a couple of possible shrewd loans on the cheap....

Might that be what he's trying to do?????????
Mike Gaynes
58 Posted 12/09/2011 at 14:07:09
I'm astonished that no one has called out #3 Steve Guy for his post. He correctly refers to those who oppose the BU's exercise of free speech as "idiots". And then he firmly establishes himself as an five-star idiot:

"Finally I'm also disappointed by the players in this. They should not be getting involved. They get paid to play football ? not politcs. They are with us for a short time, whilst the Club will (hopefully) be here long after they've moved onto their next paycheck."

So the BU and the fans are entitled to free speech but the players are not? Tim Cahill's no footballing whore looking to his "next paycheck"... neither is Phil Neville. They're true Blue. And they shouldn't be getting "involved"?? We're supporters of Everton Football Club. They ARE Everton Football Club. Who is as involved as they are?

I don't know what you call someone who expresses that kind of contempt for our own players, but you don't call them a fan. Actually, I think "idiot" is just about right.


Gavin Ramejkis
59 Posted 12/09/2011 at 14:54:34
Martin #51 I'm a project manager and change is a core element of what I do on a day to day basis, its how that change is created, driven, reviewed and broadcast that matters. If everyone was to take the choice that all change is potentially destructive we'd not be driving cars or flying aircraft or able to perform the most complicated surgery imaginable on unborn children.

For every tale of woe there are tales of success, the stagnation of 12 years has proven that maintaining the status quo cant possibly be seen as a viable solution, if for some strange reason it is then at what point would it not be; relegation through not enough quality in the team to maintain a place in the premiership? administration as the banks call in debts when the club no longer has sufficient assets versus debts and is unable to service them together with the ten point deduction and threat of relegation that too brings?

BK openly admitted a number of years ago that he cant sustain the business, both he and his CEO said the current selling to service debt model isn't sustainable a few years ago. I'm just curious as to what point the devil you know becomes the devil you'd rather not know anymore?
Steve Guy
60 Posted 12/09/2011 at 15:43:52
Mike Gaynes, I've seen OTT mails many times on this site and yours is up there with the best.

At best a player's comments will be coloured by who pays him. If you are paid by someone and then defend them fair enough, but don't call it free speech. Besides which players shouldn't be taking sides; there has been a lot of talk about how the whole issue has been divisive and players taking sides only makes this worse. so they should stay out of it.

I called persons unknown idiots for slagging off a fellow supporter for exercising his right to free expression. You call me an idiot for exercising that same right; so whose the real idiot ?

Finally I don't see the players as being Everton Football Club however long they may be here and even if they become fans themselves. I said I was disappointed with Cahill's comments but I would never hold him in contempt; as he is a fine example in pretty much every other way of how a footballer should conduct themselves. However, the Club is an institution that has been around since the 19th century and if anyone IS the Club it's the supporters; not the players and certainly not the current Board. Having supported the Club for 45 years and held a season ticket for over 25 years I count myself as very much one of its fans and supporters, thanks very much.
Jim Lloyd
61 Posted 12/09/2011 at 15:39:49
Mike (56)

I'm not so sure that Steve Guy is an idiot for saying what he did. The players are in an extremely influential position, so I think they should take some care before commenting. As employees of the club, it might be that they have insights into what is going on, more than we do. I rather think, though, that they are as divided as we are. I ageree with Steve that the players will be gone in a couple of years and may be the manager also. We'll still be Evertonians wanting what is best for the club we support.

Mind you, I can't say that I support them now as I gave up my season ticket as a protest against what I believe is a board who have no long term plan and I can only see us going down hill even faster if this board stays in power.

Jim Lloyd
62 Posted 12/09/2011 at 16:16:38
Sorry about the typos (fingers too big!)
If the manager and one or two of the players have begun to comment on Blue Union's protests but do not discuss the valid criticisms made by blue Union and many others, then they are abusing their position. Thast goes for an ex player who comments on radio cityu but again, as far as I understand, is an employee of the club.
Jim Lloyd
63 Posted 12/09/2011 at 16:16:38
Sorry about the typos (fingers too big!)
If the manager and one or two of the players have begun to comment on Blue Union's protests but do not discuss the valid criticisms made by blue Union and many others, then they are abusing their position. Thast goes for an ex player who comments on radio cityu but again, as far as I understand, is an employee of the club.
Gavin Ramejkis
64 Posted 12/09/2011 at 17:13:46
Mike apart from the press releases being predicted to a T, one thing to bear in mind is that the statements that have come out from Sharp and Cahill are relating to their employers and as such can ONLY be deemed to be weighted accordingly. Take an example a recent quote about a team attacking in numbers with strikers on the pitch along the lines of thats how to win a game of football, that was said by none other than the current club captain Phil Neville on twitter after watching his beloved Man U this season, yet not once has he made a statement questioning in the past why his current employer and manager has played games with no strikers on the pitch and sat on the bench. You see Mike, its a matter of context. Propoganda no matter how its wrapped up and delivered is just propoganda.
Mike Gaynes
65 Posted 12/09/2011 at 16:54:06
I say the players have every bit as much right to express their opinions as the fans do, and since they know a lot more about what's really going on at the club, their opinions carry weight. They're not paycheck slaves who should sit down and shut up. They're articulate, expert professionals with something to contribute to the discussion, and they have every right to do so. Being "temporary" employees does not give them less right to speak out that permanent supporters.

Steve Guy, if you want to believe that tough, outspoken guys like Cahill and Neville are saying what they're saying because the club pays them, you go right ahead and insult their integrity. And as to the use of the word "idiot"... you yourself attached it to those who would deny free speech, so if you want to know who hung the label on you for telling the players to put a cork in it, look in the mirror. It's a self-inflicted wound.

Jim Lloyd, you're entitled to your viewpoint as well, but I thought Cahill DID comment with great care... he expressed his disagreement with the march without being critical of the marchers or the fans.

I wonder if your disagreement with the players and ex-players speaking out (Barry Horne was pretty vocal on Fox Sports as well) is based on what they're saying, rather than the simple fact that they're speaking. Answer me this question honestly -- if a player came out and endorsed your viewpoint (the Blue Union position), would you criticize him speaking out as well?

As for the players being divided on management -- of course they are. Players are always divided on management. Even on the most successful clubs there are always players who don't approve of what the manager and/or owner are doing. But they want what's best just as much as we do.

And as to Moyes speaking out, who would have expected anything else? He's a man of strong opinions whose loyalty to Kenwright has been fully on display for years, and he has never been one to hold his tongue when he had something to say.
Michael Hegarty
66 Posted 12/09/2011 at 17:30:09
whiny little bitches
buffoon
Bullshit Bill
grumpy twat
vindictive little shits
heathenous vermin
its soooooooooooo Redshite.
bloody charlatan
gutless wonders
five-star idiot

The above are some of the names tht have been directed at other Evertonians in response to the OP. Proud of yourselves?

Mike Gaynes
67 Posted 12/09/2011 at 17:31:37
Gavin, same question I asked Jim... if a player came out and agreed with your position and the Blue Union's, would you still consider it "propaganda"? Or is the context just a matter of which side of the argument you're on?
John Audsley
68 Posted 12/09/2011 at 17:36:03
Michael H

I think my grumpy twat comment is pretty fair when you read Dick's comments.

"Proud of myself" ? well, I've answered his comments fairly IMO and I'm sure he can give just as good back.

Where does it say that Everton fans cannot have a little "banter"? I think the nasty comments aimed at Richard's son in the original post are a completely different kettle of fish.

I'm sure you will tell me I'm wrong though...
Richard Dodd
69 Posted 12/09/2011 at 17:31:08
I have to agree, Gavram. That`s twice in a week!

Have to say I`d prefer the players and manager to stick to what they are paid for and let Flossie & Co make a fool of the Chairman. They are doing a good job up to now!

Steve Guy
70 Posted 12/09/2011 at 17:47:05
Mike Gaynes.

"And as to the use of the word "idiot"... you yourself attached it to those who would deny free speech, so if you want to know who hung the label on you for telling the players to put a cork in it, look in the mirror. It's a self-inflicted wound "

Ignoring your mixed metaphors, I did not say I was denying anyone free speech, including you unfortunately. I said they could say what they want as players, but you can hardly call it free speech when they are being paid by one of the parties in the argument. I said they should stay out of it because by picking sides they are adding to the increasingly divisive nature of the arguments which, as paid servants of the football club, seems to me to be inappropriate. The co-ordinated propaganda from the Club this week is blatant and should be obvious to anyone; Tim Cahill, Barry Horne et al are a part of that propaganda. I like both these individuals for what they have brought to our Club in many ways. On this one though I am just saying how disappointing it is that they have allowed themselves to be used in this way and alienated some of those people who yell their support each week from the terraces.

"Answer me this question honestly -- if a player came out and endorsed your viewpoint (the Blue Union position), would you criticize him speaking out as well?" I would, whatever the position they were supporting. By the way I am not a member of the Blue Union so their position isn't necessarily mine, although I definitely share their frustrations on many of the issues we face.
Mike Gaynes
71 Posted 12/09/2011 at 18:18:00
Steve, I didn't ask you that question... I asked it of Jim and Gavin... but if that's your position, so be it. And if you truly believe that these tough, uncompromising professionals are saying what they're saying because they're "allowing themselves to be used" in a pro-Kenwright propaganda campaign, you're entitled to that belief.
Personally, I leave open the outlandish possibility that these guys are actually expressing their own opinions, rather than being coerced by the club. I will never meet Tim Cahill, but he definitely seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't be a propaganda mouthpiece even at gunpoint. And Barry Horne doesn't work for Everton -- he's paid to spout his own opinions, not somebody else's.

I honestly don't know whether the comments by the players and ex-players are divisive -- as I mentioned, Cahill was exceedingly respectful, while Horne was characteristically blunt -- but I think the divisions within the fan base are already pretty clear. Both the unpleasant experience of Richard's son and the heat of the debates on this board are evidence of that.
Gavin Ramejkis
72 Posted 12/09/2011 at 19:51:01
Mike if a player came out in support of the Blue Union I'd fully expect them to face a club fine for bringing the club into disrepute a pretty standard clause in a footballers contract these days or you could believe that if you spoke out against your current employer they too would go "oh good old Mike, he has the credibility to say what he thinks about us". I don't expect any players to come out against the regime if they fancy not facing a fine what I would like is them to do what they are paid very handsomely to do and thats play football and not run with a story penned by the director of communications. Ask yourself this Mike how is it that so many of the stories appearing were predicted, is it by any chance they were the standard response of Ian Ross?
Kevin Hudson
73 Posted 13/09/2011 at 11:13:20
Let me get this straight: You're in a boozer and someone calls your lad "a knobhead," just for wearing a Blue Union t shirt. So why does this warrant an article on ToffeeWeb extolling the virtues of free speech?

It's just some dickheads in an alehouse!
Tony J Williams
74 Posted 13/09/2011 at 12:27:57
Playing Devil's advocate. You are championing free speech but you don't agree with some nugget having their own opinion and expressing it, albeit in an abusive manner?
Craig Wilson
75 Posted 13/09/2011 at 12:51:05
800 people marched

31,000 didnt

Says it all really, the vast majority understand the situation and while we all want a new owner with money the truth is we are not a fancy London club close to a billionaires penthouse or a worldwide brand that business people can turn a profit on.

Forcing BK to sell to just anyone could result in being owned by chicken farmers from India who thought they were buying a franchise and then thought it was a great move to get rid of the manager and promote the coach!!!
Paul Lally
76 Posted 13/09/2011 at 23:22:47
Ceaig#73 - I think you can tell by reading across the forums that a lot of supporters do not understand the situation and some just want to watch football, hopefully stylish and winning foootball, which is fine. We are all fans.
However, some take a deeper interest and read all the facts from both sides of the fence and can see why we need to march etc.
I find it baffling that those asking difficult questions, that need answering, are abused by other fans.
Just let us get on with it and if we get nowhere, you can rub it in then if you have to.
As said, we all support the team and always will.
Also, no-one is asking or forcing BK to sell to just anyone.
We want appointed professionals to find a credible buyer.

I cannot see any problem with that.

COYB


Richard Jones
77 Posted 14/09/2011 at 08:44:13
Craig I was at the first meeting and there were 5 so unrest is growing, like it or not!!!
Ste Hawkins
78 Posted 14/09/2011 at 14:14:47
sad to hear that mate...

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