Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Bill Dreamed a Dream
By Anthony Jones :: 15/09/2011
56 Comments (»Last)
I want a new owner with the financial clout to save us from impending implosion as much as the most avid detractor of Bill Kenwright.
His recent interview with the Blue Union showed him to be delusional, condescending, and as slippery as a politicain caught in the headlights.
Of all the disappointments and lies, the two failed stadium moves irritate me the most, as most fans seem to agree that the first scheme was perhaps achievable if Kenwright had have put the club first, whilst the second was cheap reverse financing that would not really have taken the club forward.
I am not posting this article to remind you of what you most likely already know or think. Rather, I would like to make a case to take the edge off the hatred that is vented in his direction. This is how I have come to see the man:
- Kenwright loves the club, though perhaps in a controlling and potentially damaging way.
- Kenwright is most likely a puppet of his friends on the board, who have gentlemen's agreements that we may never know about.
- Under the heavy strain of competition from commercially stronger clubs, Kenwright did all he could come up with to create success on the pitch in the hope of hitting the jackpot of the Champion's League.
- Yes, he took a gamble, but it wasn't as naive as you might suggest, given that we almost qualified for the Champion's League only for Pierluigi Collina to potentially steal it from us after we had drawn the eventual semi-finalists.
I would like him to sell up for no profit whatsoever, but I suspect his masters won't allow that. Perhaps more questions should be asked of them if it is a scapegoat you are after.
Nobody else wanted to buy the club when he did. He bought it, and rather than let the football deteriorate he gambled by giving as much money as he could muster to the manager. Now the books are looking ominous, but we certainly aren't the only club in the shit.
For the most part, I am proud of what we have achieved on the pitch over the last 7 or 8 seasons. Yakubu was the best forward I have seen play for us. Arteta was at times sublime. I saw us leather Fiorentina and Chelsea.
What would we be able to remember fondly of the last 10 years without taking a gamble? We'll never know, but Kenwright doesn't deserve to be hated. He should never be trusted, but he should be allowed to leave with some dignity.
Reader Comments (56)
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Andy Crooks
2 Posted 15/09/2011 at 21:52:06
2 Posted 15/09/2011 at 21:52:06
Anthony,you are probably fairer to Kenwright than he deserves but you've written a decent article. His legacy will depend on how much profit he makes when he sells. If he fills his boots then he will be exposed as the fraud I fear he is. I would urge every Evertonian to read the Swiss Ramble blog. It is the best piece about today's Everton that I have ever read.
Nick Entwistle
3 Posted 15/09/2011 at 22:30:44
3 Posted 15/09/2011 at 22:30:44
Oooooh Fiorentina and Chelsea. Break out the Worther's and tell the grandkids!
What Everton have achieved on the pitch as you say is despite Kenwright, not because of it.
What Everton have achieved on the pitch as you say is despite Kenwright, not because of it.
Trevor Mackie
4 Posted 15/09/2011 at 22:39:09
4 Posted 15/09/2011 at 22:39:09
Anthony when you raise this point:
"Kenwright loves the club, though perhaps in a controlling and potentially damaging way."
There's very little else to be said.
He deserves credit for stabilizing things after agent Johnson but by his own admission he can't generate the funds required to compete and that's HIS job.
Perhaps a 4 or 5 year tenure was justified but frankly he's indulged himself at our expense since.
The predilection of Evertonians to excuse persistent failure continues to baffle.
"Kenwright loves the club, though perhaps in a controlling and potentially damaging way."
There's very little else to be said.
He deserves credit for stabilizing things after agent Johnson but by his own admission he can't generate the funds required to compete and that's HIS job.
Perhaps a 4 or 5 year tenure was justified but frankly he's indulged himself at our expense since.
The predilection of Evertonians to excuse persistent failure continues to baffle.
Phil Martin
5 Posted 15/09/2011 at 22:43:08
5 Posted 15/09/2011 at 22:43:08
Anthony, I acknowledge you're rather diplomatic and forgiving assessment of BK. I agree he started off with good intentions but he clearly lost the plot a long time ago.
His mission statement 12 years ago was to find long term owners, but I think us hitting 4th actually made him believe he could take us back to greatness on the back of Moyes' shoestring miracles.
Really that should've been the time he was knuckling down to find new owners. Instead he was cracking open champagne and shedding tears for the cameras.
By the time he'd realised (again) that he wasn't resourceful or wealthy enough to be the main man. It was financial collapse time and investors were all the more scarce.
He should've found investors a long time ago and i'll never forgive him for the Kirkby lies and propaganda.
The final straw was this summer of transfer stagnation. Being fed shit like we don't need any new signings was too much for me. For Everton's sake Bill, please go quietly.
His mission statement 12 years ago was to find long term owners, but I think us hitting 4th actually made him believe he could take us back to greatness on the back of Moyes' shoestring miracles.
Really that should've been the time he was knuckling down to find new owners. Instead he was cracking open champagne and shedding tears for the cameras.
By the time he'd realised (again) that he wasn't resourceful or wealthy enough to be the main man. It was financial collapse time and investors were all the more scarce.
He should've found investors a long time ago and i'll never forgive him for the Kirkby lies and propaganda.
The final straw was this summer of transfer stagnation. Being fed shit like we don't need any new signings was too much for me. For Everton's sake Bill, please go quietly.
Ciarán McGlone
6 Posted 15/09/2011 at 23:11:28
6 Posted 15/09/2011 at 23:11:28
You give more credit than I would. By the way there was at least one other person interested in buying the club when he bought.
Chad Schofield
7 Posted 15/09/2011 at 23:11:43
7 Posted 15/09/2011 at 23:11:43
It's just sad... But all of the comments here and in the main article are true to my mind. I think the sooner Bill can exit, the sooner he will be looked on with some fondness and be able to return to what he does best... Be an ambassador for the club. The rest is clearly over his head and the Walter Mitty characteristics do not help anyone.
Eric Myles
8 Posted 16/09/2011 at 02:30:40
8 Posted 16/09/2011 at 02:30:40
"he should be allowed to leave with some dignity."
I'm afraid he has shown that over the he is not a dignified person and he really doesn't want to leave.
I'm afraid he has shown that over the he is not a dignified person and he really doesn't want to leave.
Eugene Ruane
9 Posted 16/09/2011 at 07:52:35
9 Posted 16/09/2011 at 07:52:35
"I saw us leather Fiorentina and Chelsea"?
You also saw Fiorentina (nb: NOT Barcelona!) leather US and you saw Chelsea leather us......in the fucking cup final when it mattered.
(remember, we emerged from BOTH ties with fuck all).
The sooner some see that Kenwright's 'loving' Everton (in the context of success) means absolutely nothing, the better.
Ffs, I love Everton BUT (like Kenwright!) I am simply not qualified to run Everton FC.
To run a successful, profitable business, you need people who, first and foremost, love success and profit (AND are capable of delivering it).
BK is a bullshit-spouting fool, a liability who has proved (beyond a reasonable doubt) that he's not up to the job and never was.
As long as he's 'running' things, we will continue to lurch from one embarrassment to the next.
Boy's pen my hole!
You also saw Fiorentina (nb: NOT Barcelona!) leather US and you saw Chelsea leather us......in the fucking cup final when it mattered.
(remember, we emerged from BOTH ties with fuck all).
The sooner some see that Kenwright's 'loving' Everton (in the context of success) means absolutely nothing, the better.
Ffs, I love Everton BUT (like Kenwright!) I am simply not qualified to run Everton FC.
To run a successful, profitable business, you need people who, first and foremost, love success and profit (AND are capable of delivering it).
BK is a bullshit-spouting fool, a liability who has proved (beyond a reasonable doubt) that he's not up to the job and never was.
As long as he's 'running' things, we will continue to lurch from one embarrassment to the next.
Boy's pen my hole!
Mike Gwyer
10 Posted 16/09/2011 at 08:29:59
10 Posted 16/09/2011 at 08:29:59
Sorry Anthony but I'm getting sick of reading dross regarding Kenwright.
The club is now fucked. EFC is on a rapid spiral downwards, big time. Firstly our best players (well all two of them) will soon be gone. Secondly, our best hope of a ground move, that would of probably escalated Everton FC, was totally hijacked by our chairman and then trashed.
We play the most defensive footy in the EPL and believe me, after the Wigan game, we will see 3 or probably 4 losses in the next 5 games.
The opportunity was there for this club to progress but nope our chairman decided to purchase zero players over the past two seasons - basically standing still whilst the other top 6 clubs spent big time. Fuck it, he did the exact opposite and decided to sell some of best players.
If you can't see that we are in the shit then just wait.
Dave Lynch
11 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:25:57
11 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:25:57
I had a dream.
I dreamt the bullshitting drama queen of a loser fucked off.
I dreamt the bullshitting drama queen of a loser fucked off.
Steve Cotton
12 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:32:54
12 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:32:54
one final point that Bill has seemingly got away with, is that he said that from the day the transfer window opened he was too tied up with EVF affairs to get on with his luvvy stuff in London.
He knew we had no money so he must have spend every one of those 60 days trying to sell players, he knew we couldnt afford loans so he must have been trying to offload players 24/7
I bet he cracked a bottle when Mikel finally went..
He knew we had no money so he must have spend every one of those 60 days trying to sell players, he knew we couldnt afford loans so he must have been trying to offload players 24/7
I bet he cracked a bottle when Mikel finally went..
Tom Hughes
13 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:38:01
13 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:38:01
...... and we'll reap the nightmare!
Ciar�n McGlone
14 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:44:18
14 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:44:18
"I'm afraid he has shown that over the he is not a dignified person and he really doesn't want to leave."
----------------
Spot on. Any so-called 'Evertonian' who uses his influence in the media, and also the manager and players of this club, to preside over a manufactured and calculated split in the fanbase - in my opinion has no dignity - or integrity for that matter.
----------------
Spot on. Any so-called 'Evertonian' who uses his influence in the media, and also the manager and players of this club, to preside over a manufactured and calculated split in the fanbase - in my opinion has no dignity - or integrity for that matter.
Kevin Tully
15 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:36:14
15 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:36:14
I used to believe his heart was in the right place, and he was a decent but relatively poor chairman.
Now, after trying to understand our financial affairs and seeing through the lies and missed opportunities, I feel like I have fallen for a scam.
The man is a trained actor, his ownership has now come home to roost. We are heading for administration if we don't sell our most valuable assets left - our talented players.
He should take the money he invested, with interest and fuck off.
He is a con man and a buffoon.
Now, after trying to understand our financial affairs and seeing through the lies and missed opportunities, I feel like I have fallen for a scam.
The man is a trained actor, his ownership has now come home to roost. We are heading for administration if we don't sell our most valuable assets left - our talented players.
He should take the money he invested, with interest and fuck off.
He is a con man and a buffoon.
Alan Clarke
16 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:21:19
16 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:21:19
I think Kenwright already gambled everything he could. He would have gambled more if the banks had let him. He has still followed the Ridsdale model of running a football club. We just weren't allowed by the banks to plunge into as much debt as them. Whereas Leeds or Ridsdale gambled to stay in the Champions League, Kenwright gambled to keep us in the Europa League and try and push for the top 4.
The way Moyes defends Kenwright and now seems happy to put up with seeing his best players sold, it makes me think he knew what was going on. I think he and Kenwright hatched a plan to get into the top 4 and if they didn't do it by a certain date, the club would no longer be able to afford to stay up there. I think that's why Kenwright clung on and resisted approaches from possible buyers. Kenwright wanted to be the hero and see his plan through. Last year was possibly the year to see the plan come to fruition with all the guff Moyes spouted about his best squad ever etc etc. But Moyes fucked it up. He failed to buy a proper striker instead buying Heitinga and and Bily and we had another one of our infamous slow starts. Now the house of cards has coming crashing down and the fire sale will start.
It's a complete misconception that we've been run prudently. We have not been prudently run. Lessons weren't learnt from the likes of Leeds or Portsmouth because Kenwright has run us the exact same way. Fortunately, because Kenwright wasn't allowed to take out as much debt against the club as he'd have liked, we've still got enough assets (players) to sell and stop the club going into administration. However, we won't have a squad left to compete in the Premier League once Kenwright has finished paying back the banks.
This is Kenwright's mess and he's not the man to resolve it. We can't cling on to this sentimental bullshit of him being a blue so he's the best man to have in charge. It's time for him to step aside so someone who is qualified to run a football club can sort this out.
The way Moyes defends Kenwright and now seems happy to put up with seeing his best players sold, it makes me think he knew what was going on. I think he and Kenwright hatched a plan to get into the top 4 and if they didn't do it by a certain date, the club would no longer be able to afford to stay up there. I think that's why Kenwright clung on and resisted approaches from possible buyers. Kenwright wanted to be the hero and see his plan through. Last year was possibly the year to see the plan come to fruition with all the guff Moyes spouted about his best squad ever etc etc. But Moyes fucked it up. He failed to buy a proper striker instead buying Heitinga and and Bily and we had another one of our infamous slow starts. Now the house of cards has coming crashing down and the fire sale will start.
It's a complete misconception that we've been run prudently. We have not been prudently run. Lessons weren't learnt from the likes of Leeds or Portsmouth because Kenwright has run us the exact same way. Fortunately, because Kenwright wasn't allowed to take out as much debt against the club as he'd have liked, we've still got enough assets (players) to sell and stop the club going into administration. However, we won't have a squad left to compete in the Premier League once Kenwright has finished paying back the banks.
This is Kenwright's mess and he's not the man to resolve it. We can't cling on to this sentimental bullshit of him being a blue so he's the best man to have in charge. It's time for him to step aside so someone who is qualified to run a football club can sort this out.
Graham Atherton
17 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:48:06
17 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:48:06
If it was correctly reported Earl bought 23% of the club for £15 million. Kenwright paid something like half of that amount.
It follows that Earl wants to sell for a profit. All 3 major shareholders want to sell as one block. This gives us a minimum price of £65 million plus debt - £110 million (2010 figures)?
Earl is most likely the one digging his heels in on price.
It follows that Earl wants to sell for a profit. All 3 major shareholders want to sell as one block. This gives us a minimum price of £65 million plus debt - £110 million (2010 figures)?
Earl is most likely the one digging his heels in on price.
Michael Evans
18 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:54:07
18 Posted 16/09/2011 at 09:54:07
Eugene@9 "Boy's pen my hole !"
Congratulations Eugene - you have successfully managed to precis the angst many of us are currently feeling into one classic four letter quote !
On a lighter note, can you imagine the laughs that Frankie Howerd would get with that line ?
Titter ye not.
Neil Adderley
19 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:31:18
19 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:31:18
Graham #17.
The Gregg's received £9m for their shares.
What should be remembered and not forgotten is that when Bill Kenwright REALLY NEEDED to sell 23% of shares in EFC he found an investor quick enough - of course they weren't his shares:
EVERTON chairman Bill Kenwright has spoken publicly for the first time about the deal that ousted rival Paul Gregg from the club's board.
Last night, Kenwright said the decision of former director Mr Gregg to sell his 23% of shares to Robert Earl was the right one.
Earl, Hendon-born and a Tottenham fan, has become involved in Everton primarily to help Kenwright take a firmer grip on the club after a two-year boardroom war with former director Gregg.
Kenwright said: "For everyone concerned it was the right decision. Paul (Gregg) has wanted to get rid of his shares for some time now and I believe he has sold them to the right person.
"No decision has been made yet on whether he (Robert Earl) comes on the board. Basically, there will be no change whatsoever in the running of the club.
"Robert will in that way be a passive investor, but I don't have to spell out the man's attributes. He is a visionary and his focus on branding and marketing is second to none. That is where he believes, and we hope, he will figure."
Kenwright brokered the deal between Gregg and his wife Anita and Earl, who is believed to have paid pounds 9m for the stake.'
The Gregg's received £9m for their shares.
What should be remembered and not forgotten is that when Bill Kenwright REALLY NEEDED to sell 23% of shares in EFC he found an investor quick enough - of course they weren't his shares:
EVERTON chairman Bill Kenwright has spoken publicly for the first time about the deal that ousted rival Paul Gregg from the club's board.
Last night, Kenwright said the decision of former director Mr Gregg to sell his 23% of shares to Robert Earl was the right one.
Earl, Hendon-born and a Tottenham fan, has become involved in Everton primarily to help Kenwright take a firmer grip on the club after a two-year boardroom war with former director Gregg.
Kenwright said: "For everyone concerned it was the right decision. Paul (Gregg) has wanted to get rid of his shares for some time now and I believe he has sold them to the right person.
"No decision has been made yet on whether he (Robert Earl) comes on the board. Basically, there will be no change whatsoever in the running of the club.
"Robert will in that way be a passive investor, but I don't have to spell out the man's attributes. He is a visionary and his focus on branding and marketing is second to none. That is where he believes, and we hope, he will figure."
Kenwright brokered the deal between Gregg and his wife Anita and Earl, who is believed to have paid pounds 9m for the stake.'
Dick Fearon
20 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:34:42
20 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:34:42
Dave L # 11, I also had a dream and mine was that Toffeeweb was not full of the same old names regurgitating the same old bile.
Doom and destruction is just around the corner according to them.
If that really is the case then maybe Kirkby really was the last chance saloon.
Doom and destruction is just around the corner according to them.
If that really is the case then maybe Kirkby really was the last chance saloon.
Trevor Mackie
21 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:59:07
21 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:59:07
Dick Fearon
What's your point?
What's your point?
Mike Gwyer
22 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:53:41
22 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:53:41
Alan #16.
When you say Kenwright has borrowed money from the banks to allow or encourage Everton to progress - then please explain what happened to the Rooney 30M, the Lescott 24M, plus the fees from the sales of Johnson, Pienaar, Arteta & Beckford 25M.
So what did we do with the bank money when we took 79M from the sale of players.
EFC stinks of corruption.
Tom Hughes
23 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:59:30
23 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:59:30
Dick..... Take the blinkers off mate....... even the club don't spout that line. Il-conceived and non-viable on every level was the final conclusion. Hence the reason why the club dropped it at the very first opportunity having wasted millions and years being tied into a complete non-starter.
I don't really see any bile to be honest.... just facts, which you seem incapable of commenting on. Failure to deliver time and time again, when most other boards have invested in their club, and have managed to deliver the facilities to help their clubs generate as much income as possible. Our board have contributed and delivered nothing, and have even been complicit in the downfall of our real deal of the century..... which you completely ignore! I mean seriously, how much shite can you brush under one carpet?
I don't really see any bile to be honest.... just facts, which you seem incapable of commenting on. Failure to deliver time and time again, when most other boards have invested in their club, and have managed to deliver the facilities to help their clubs generate as much income as possible. Our board have contributed and delivered nothing, and have even been complicit in the downfall of our real deal of the century..... which you completely ignore! I mean seriously, how much shite can you brush under one carpet?
Alan Clarke
24 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:46:17
24 Posted 16/09/2011 at 10:46:17
The irony Dick, you're on here more than anyone and your comments are as bilious as anyone's I've read. Keep dreaming.
Alan Clarke
25 Posted 16/09/2011 at 11:27:25
25 Posted 16/09/2011 at 11:27:25
Mike, I've probably been too simplistic. There's a black hole in our finances and I think it's one reason Kenwright is allowed to try and put a positive spin on things because there seems to be a lot of money that's not been accounted for. The fact that Elstone listed medical expenses recently as a place where some of the money goes shows a cover up. I'd be surprised if medical expenses at Everton were more than £250k, a mere drop in the ocean when you compare it to the overall debt or even the mysterious £23.8 million of operating costs.
Michael Evans
26 Posted 16/09/2011 at 12:56:39
26 Posted 16/09/2011 at 12:56:39
Dick@20 - would it be fair to say then that you don't enjoy the site or its "same old names" contributors ?
Michael Winstanley
27 Posted 16/09/2011 at 12:39:06
27 Posted 16/09/2011 at 12:39:06
I agree Bill dreamed a dream but sadly it's turned into a nightmare.
The Swiss Ramble blog reminds me of Lyndon's column before the season started. The only way we can survive is by selling players or qualifying for champions league. So it's selling players all the way.
I'm no financial wizard but I would like to think the board (ahem!) would look at clearing the debt through player sales and starting again with the banks and cutting our cloth accordingly.
I cannot see a buyer coming in for Everton now given our financial situation.
As for Bill???? Will he step aside and let someone else in...I hope so but doubt it!
The Swiss Ramble blog reminds me of Lyndon's column before the season started. The only way we can survive is by selling players or qualifying for champions league. So it's selling players all the way.
I'm no financial wizard but I would like to think the board (ahem!) would look at clearing the debt through player sales and starting again with the banks and cutting our cloth accordingly.
I cannot see a buyer coming in for Everton now given our financial situation.
As for Bill???? Will he step aside and let someone else in...I hope so but doubt it!
Danny Broderick
28 Posted 16/09/2011 at 15:01:31
28 Posted 16/09/2011 at 15:01:31
I hope we get a quick resolution to our current plight - like before the end of the season. Because for all his faults, Kenwright is a massive Evertonian, of that there is no doubt, and it would be very sad if it became so acrimonious that he was no longer welcome at the ground.
I took part in the march against Villa, and my view - and I presume it must be the view of some others also - is that it is nothing personal against Bill. He has done his best, but his best is no longer good enough. When he took us over, we needed someone to steady the ship and give us a certain level of investment in the team, after Walter left us with a Dad's Army. We got that, but we have established ourselves as the 'best of the rest' now, on the coat tails of the top 4/top 6. We need investment, pure and simple now, and our current board either don't want to give us any money, or don't have the money we need. Only one solution - get them to sell up, and hopefully we will get a new board that can take us forward.
I took part in the march against Villa, and my view - and I presume it must be the view of some others also - is that it is nothing personal against Bill. He has done his best, but his best is no longer good enough. When he took us over, we needed someone to steady the ship and give us a certain level of investment in the team, after Walter left us with a Dad's Army. We got that, but we have established ourselves as the 'best of the rest' now, on the coat tails of the top 4/top 6. We need investment, pure and simple now, and our current board either don't want to give us any money, or don't have the money we need. Only one solution - get them to sell up, and hopefully we will get a new board that can take us forward.
James Stewart
29 Posted 16/09/2011 at 16:00:10
29 Posted 16/09/2011 at 16:00:10
Kenwright is a slippery media savvy fuck who I hold in no regard what so ever. He has the business acumen of a small child and has no place holding the position he does.
This is a guy who churns out dross production after another and doesn't even have any expertise in his own field.
Personally I have and always will found him to be an embarrassment to EFC.
This is a guy who churns out dross production after another and doesn't even have any expertise in his own field.
Personally I have and always will found him to be an embarrassment to EFC.
Ben Dyke
30 Posted 16/09/2011 at 15:57:31
30 Posted 16/09/2011 at 15:57:31
I love reading Toffeeweb but the doom is too much at times. I understand some of the feelings and I understand frustration with Kenwright but the truth is we all get things out of perspective because we want Everton to challenge for honours. And as things stand that expectation is unrealistic.
We could get Kenwright out but Everton will never be a wealthy club purely from the fanbase or from commercial deals and that I am afraid is that. We can only hit another level with real wealth from outside like City have been given. But I dont want that. I would rather do it our way, be an underdog and get real satisfaction from beating the big boys.
You could argue that the real missed boat was the end of the 80s, but even then our misfortune was also influenced majorly by external circumstances (mainly Heysel ban).
For me I have gone round in circles being realistic, blaming it all on Kenwright, being realistic etc. For now my only real conclusion is to think that we still have some players I enjoy watching. We still have a team I enjoy watching (mostly), we still have an ethos I enjoy and we are NOT Man City, Man Utd, the Reds or any other plastic team.
Moyes is far from perfect but he has given back to me the enjoyment of watching us. You really dont have a good memory if you cant see how much better we are than from the whole period from the end of the 80s until Moyes came. (Joe Royle years saw the odd good performance but thats it for me).
Moyes has given me European football, good victories occasionally against big boys, some great stuff and players to watch and on the whole I am disappointed but that is in line with Everton during my whole life to be honest except the mid 80s and even then we still have 86 and runners up. We still have not getting the treble because of Man U and playing so close to Rapid Vienna game.
Anyway lads chin up we could be supporting Nottingham Forest or Leeds.
We could get Kenwright out but Everton will never be a wealthy club purely from the fanbase or from commercial deals and that I am afraid is that. We can only hit another level with real wealth from outside like City have been given. But I dont want that. I would rather do it our way, be an underdog and get real satisfaction from beating the big boys.
You could argue that the real missed boat was the end of the 80s, but even then our misfortune was also influenced majorly by external circumstances (mainly Heysel ban).
For me I have gone round in circles being realistic, blaming it all on Kenwright, being realistic etc. For now my only real conclusion is to think that we still have some players I enjoy watching. We still have a team I enjoy watching (mostly), we still have an ethos I enjoy and we are NOT Man City, Man Utd, the Reds or any other plastic team.
Moyes is far from perfect but he has given back to me the enjoyment of watching us. You really dont have a good memory if you cant see how much better we are than from the whole period from the end of the 80s until Moyes came. (Joe Royle years saw the odd good performance but thats it for me).
Moyes has given me European football, good victories occasionally against big boys, some great stuff and players to watch and on the whole I am disappointed but that is in line with Everton during my whole life to be honest except the mid 80s and even then we still have 86 and runners up. We still have not getting the treble because of Man U and playing so close to Rapid Vienna game.
Anyway lads chin up we could be supporting Nottingham Forest or Leeds.
Dennis Stevens
31 Posted 16/09/2011 at 16:42:20
31 Posted 16/09/2011 at 16:42:20
DK was not the last chance saloon, Dick - in fact it would have exacerbated the situation & hastened our demise.
Ben, "as things stand" is where this Board have lead us, i.e. right up shit street! Had they proceeded with KD, for example, then the club would now be in a very different situation.
Ben, "as things stand" is where this Board have lead us, i.e. right up shit street! Had they proceeded with KD, for example, then the club would now be in a very different situation.
Anthony Jones
32 Posted 16/09/2011 at 17:19:15
32 Posted 16/09/2011 at 17:19:15
1. I am clearly not a fan a Bill Kenwright. I just don't hate him and I don't see the reason in hating him.
2. If you think success is winning things you are living in another decade. Since the inception of the PL only a limited number of clubs have won it, and Man United have dominated. The domestic cups have been fluked by a handful of less wealthy clubs, but for the most part they are won by the usual suspects. How many english clubs have won European trophies in the last 10 years?
3. I would bet that Kenwright does want to sell and has wanted to for more than a year. The problem is, his mates on the board won't let him sell unless they think it benefits them commercially. How much is the land worth beneath Goodision? I wouldn't fancy trying to flog that delapidated old stadium.
Say what you will, but I enjoy supporting Everton because I am an Evertonian. If you crave trophies like a spoilt child pick United, City, or Chelsea and enjoy your empty victories.
2. If you think success is winning things you are living in another decade. Since the inception of the PL only a limited number of clubs have won it, and Man United have dominated. The domestic cups have been fluked by a handful of less wealthy clubs, but for the most part they are won by the usual suspects. How many english clubs have won European trophies in the last 10 years?
3. I would bet that Kenwright does want to sell and has wanted to for more than a year. The problem is, his mates on the board won't let him sell unless they think it benefits them commercially. How much is the land worth beneath Goodision? I wouldn't fancy trying to flog that delapidated old stadium.
Say what you will, but I enjoy supporting Everton because I am an Evertonian. If you crave trophies like a spoilt child pick United, City, or Chelsea and enjoy your empty victories.
Kevin Hudson
33 Posted 16/09/2011 at 19:31:16
33 Posted 16/09/2011 at 19:31:16
Another Kenwright article..?
(Puts gun to head.)
(Puts gun to head.)
Graham Atherton
34 Posted 16/09/2011 at 20:32:48
34 Posted 16/09/2011 at 20:32:48
Neil
Other reports put it at £15 million - see wikipedia. - or 'less than £15 million' - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2348485/Planet-Everton.html .
Also see http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jan/20/david-conn-everton-robert-earl for further reasons revolving round Earl for our present cash problems.
Other reports put it at £15 million - see wikipedia. - or 'less than £15 million' - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2348485/Planet-Everton.html .
Also see http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jan/20/david-conn-everton-robert-earl for further reasons revolving round Earl for our present cash problems.
Kevin Freaney
35 Posted 16/09/2011 at 21:36:38
35 Posted 16/09/2011 at 21:36:38
I used to have a lot of time for Kenwright, a good few years back. But with each passing day he's getting worse. The PR team at Goodison are being pushed into overdrive to throw out any old dross and divide the fans while blaming the blue Union for the very same team.
As someone on here once put it, as a chairman he has now divided the fanbase twice! And after reading that Daily Mail article by a supposed award winning sports journalist...well that was the last straw. It was a disgusting article, a typlical "let's call in all the favours" job. He actually expected us to feel sorry for him! And the scary thing is quite alot of Everton supporters did!!!!
His early years will be remembered but he's stayed too long and failed to do what he said he would.
As someone on here once put it, as a chairman he has now divided the fanbase twice! And after reading that Daily Mail article by a supposed award winning sports journalist...well that was the last straw. It was a disgusting article, a typlical "let's call in all the favours" job. He actually expected us to feel sorry for him! And the scary thing is quite alot of Everton supporters did!!!!
His early years will be remembered but he's stayed too long and failed to do what he said he would.
Glen Whelan
36 Posted 16/09/2011 at 21:55:37
36 Posted 16/09/2011 at 21:55:37
fans should dream a dream and invest some money instead of spending time slagging off those that have.
Dick Fearon
37 Posted 16/09/2011 at 22:04:43
37 Posted 16/09/2011 at 22:04:43
Midst the expected criticism aimed at me I notice there are a few who think along the same lines as myself.
We recognise that even under the current regime things could be better. We also recognise and have long done so that Goodison is dated, deteriorating and without massive financial input will not provide the kind of financial stream we desperately need.
We need no further reminding of actual and perceived past sins of omission. We do not have the kind of mania that spews everlasting ever repeating mantras of hate that feed of each other and achieve precisely nothing.
We can see our beloved club struggling to stay afloat in a corrupt corporate world that is threatening to overwhelm us.
We have little with which to strike back at the sharks circling.
But wait a minute what about our youngsters who though though only kids are willing to put their bodies on the line.
What about Davy Moyes who has shown his mettle plus more class and working on a pittance outlasted the billionaires toy boys in similar posts.
We have not sacrificed our honour at the altar of success at any cost.
We are EVERTON, we are not some foreign owned franchise or money laundering enterprise and we, at least some of us, are proud to nail our blue and white colours to the mast and defy all attempts to drag us down.
The last thing we need are white ants boring holes in our storm tossed life raft.
We recognise that even under the current regime things could be better. We also recognise and have long done so that Goodison is dated, deteriorating and without massive financial input will not provide the kind of financial stream we desperately need.
We need no further reminding of actual and perceived past sins of omission. We do not have the kind of mania that spews everlasting ever repeating mantras of hate that feed of each other and achieve precisely nothing.
We can see our beloved club struggling to stay afloat in a corrupt corporate world that is threatening to overwhelm us.
We have little with which to strike back at the sharks circling.
But wait a minute what about our youngsters who though though only kids are willing to put their bodies on the line.
What about Davy Moyes who has shown his mettle plus more class and working on a pittance outlasted the billionaires toy boys in similar posts.
We have not sacrificed our honour at the altar of success at any cost.
We are EVERTON, we are not some foreign owned franchise or money laundering enterprise and we, at least some of us, are proud to nail our blue and white colours to the mast and defy all attempts to drag us down.
The last thing we need are white ants boring holes in our storm tossed life raft.
Nick Entwistle
38 Posted 16/09/2011 at 22:41:50
38 Posted 16/09/2011 at 22:41:50
Glen, a hundred different responses could be leveled towards your reply. How about for starters that Evertonians invest money in the club every other week?
Kevin Freaney
39 Posted 16/09/2011 at 23:09:36
39 Posted 16/09/2011 at 23:09:36
Dick, nicely put together post.
Before I start, I'm a Blue Union fan and not the greatest Kenwright fan, and because of that I've been called a closet red and a kopite from fellow Evertonians, not in kidding, but as an insult.
But asides from that I like where you're going with the Youth idea. We have a great amount of youth coming up at the moment. My problem is that Moyes is now too scared to experiment with youth. He's too scared to attack at the moment. He's just looking to get by with what he has and that's why I think he plays his 4-6-0's.
As for questioning the loyalty of Everton fans just because they protest...did you want Johnson out, did you protese on that one or would you have sat back and defended him until he drove us into the ground. We protest because we care.
Before I start, I'm a Blue Union fan and not the greatest Kenwright fan, and because of that I've been called a closet red and a kopite from fellow Evertonians, not in kidding, but as an insult.
But asides from that I like where you're going with the Youth idea. We have a great amount of youth coming up at the moment. My problem is that Moyes is now too scared to experiment with youth. He's too scared to attack at the moment. He's just looking to get by with what he has and that's why I think he plays his 4-6-0's.
As for questioning the loyalty of Everton fans just because they protest...did you want Johnson out, did you protese on that one or would you have sat back and defended him until he drove us into the ground. We protest because we care.
Gavin Ramejkis
41 Posted 16/09/2011 at 23:43:20
41 Posted 16/09/2011 at 23:43:20
Glen #36, care to explain any of the current major shareholders spending money on the club when the CEO swore on oath not one of them have? If you've been to GP once in the last 12 years and bought a single ticket you've already spent more than them.
Andrew Rimmer
42 Posted 16/09/2011 at 23:59:16
42 Posted 16/09/2011 at 23:59:16
Kenwright loves this club like a posessive father loves his daughter. No one is good enough for her. In the end The father will take the daughter into a dark place and **** it! . Oooh steady now!
Martin Mason
43 Posted 17/09/2011 at 09:04:51
43 Posted 17/09/2011 at 09:04:51
Anthony, I'm also quite proud of what EFC has achieved over recent years but playing at the highest leel isn't enough for many, success is only gauged by what you win even though there is in reality little chance that EFC can win anything significant again. It's a very modern thing where we have to bask in the reflected glory of something.
If I have a complaint it's the dreadful football that we've served up at times to stay at the top level to cover up for our relative lack of skill and depth of squad. Let's hope that changes today, 3 points will lift a lot of gloom.
If I have a complaint it's the dreadful football that we've served up at times to stay at the top level to cover up for our relative lack of skill and depth of squad. Let's hope that changes today, 3 points will lift a lot of gloom.
Tom Hughes
44 Posted 17/09/2011 at 09:23:09
44 Posted 17/09/2011 at 09:23:09
Dick, ask yourself why you have nothing to fight back with.... you make the same mistake as several others. Your rallying call references ONLY Moyes' achievements on a shoestring and completely disregards the boards multiple failures to contribute or deliver to improve our situation by adding to the pittance he's had to work with. You mention corruption but completely fail to mention the power struggle that ultimately meant we missed out on Kings Dock while other silent, and ineffectual partners were ushered in. Not to mention the endless lies of FSF and DK. In the interest of dramatic effect you also make the assertion that anyone againt the current regime just want to be like a man city or other such "franchise" when all we want is a board with a plan who can invest and deliver. We can all readilly spout a rally round the flag speech but let's concentrate on the facts and real issues first because we have got enough heads in the sand giving boys pen speeches.
Dominic Bobadilla
45 Posted 17/09/2011 at 10:49:09
45 Posted 17/09/2011 at 10:49:09
Anthony, the financial implosion is unlikely to hit us with severity, because we have a very small debt - 50 mill is "nothing." Clubc more likely to suffer are the likes of Chlesea and Manchester United.
Tom Hughes
46 Posted 17/09/2011 at 11:24:41
46 Posted 17/09/2011 at 11:24:41
£50m to Everton with our turnover and limited assets is every bit as precarious as the likes of Man Utd etc...... thats why these clubs can still spend big if need be and we have to sell and get the odd loan if we can. Man Utd's massive fanbase means they can also float more shares as they are looking at now. This may get rid of all their debt in one go. We don't operate in the same commercial world as these clubs. Most clubs have addressed all their stadium needs, and are everything they can be in terms of revenue and commercial streams..... we above all others have failed to do this miserably. If this was a game of monopoly we'd barely own the waterworks and a get out of jail card by the name of Moyes. Everyone else has got Hotels on their properties and we've sold the lot..... That's where we're at!
Anthony Jones
47 Posted 17/09/2011 at 11:38:02
47 Posted 17/09/2011 at 11:38:02
#44, Dominic. Sorry, that's just incorrect. Read some of the links on this site about our finances and I am sure you will agree. We cannot afford to service our debt at the current rate required without yearly player sales and/or a massive reduction in the salary bill.
#33, Kevin, you have to remember to load the gun mate. There's no point sticking an empty gun to your head. That's just a sad cry for help. More importantly, I like this site so I look for new articles quite a lot, and it strikes me that not enough of them show balance, which is what I have tried to achieve here.
#33, Kevin, you have to remember to load the gun mate. There's no point sticking an empty gun to your head. That's just a sad cry for help. More importantly, I like this site so I look for new articles quite a lot, and it strikes me that not enough of them show balance, which is what I have tried to achieve here.
Dick Fearon
48 Posted 17/09/2011 at 11:19:35
48 Posted 17/09/2011 at 11:19:35
Kevin and Tom, #s 39 + 43. I preceded BK into the Boys Pen by quite a few years and when the need as I saw it arose did my share of protesting and not for a minute would I deny anyone the right to do the same.
The Echo had a front page picture of me holding one side of a. 'If Davy goes I go' banner. My protests also include the Johnnie Carey sacking and a bit more recent the Duncan Ferguson transfer. Each of those I saw as lowering the standards of our club. I was part of the crowd that booed and jeered but definitely not trip Harry Catterick at Bloomfield Rd.
There have been other less well known protests yet in every case I am proud not to have quietly accepted what seemed and turned out to be the inevitable.
I mention these things to show I am not some kind of passivist, (Cripes I can't even spell the word.
The Echo had a front page picture of me holding one side of a. 'If Davy goes I go' banner. My protests also include the Johnnie Carey sacking and a bit more recent the Duncan Ferguson transfer. Each of those I saw as lowering the standards of our club. I was part of the crowd that booed and jeered but definitely not trip Harry Catterick at Bloomfield Rd.
There have been other less well known protests yet in every case I am proud not to have quietly accepted what seemed and turned out to be the inevitable.
I mention these things to show I am not some kind of passivist, (Cripes I can't even spell the word.
Tom Hughes
49 Posted 17/09/2011 at 11:54:22
49 Posted 17/09/2011 at 11:54:22
Dick, fair play to you, but I'm not sure how this relates to now defending BK. The current predicament, and more importantly the part they've played in it is far more onerous than any you listed....... and by some stretch too.
Dick Fearon
50 Posted 17/09/2011 at 12:13:37
50 Posted 17/09/2011 at 12:13:37
Tom #48, In this age of enlightenment It has become clear to me that all the protests in the world short of violence will not have the slightest effect. Not that I advocate any kind of violence.
In our case what will affect those in power is money or the threat of losing it. That will happen if and when Barclays call in the loans.
In that scenario as happened with the RS buyers will come out of the woodwork. That type of fire sale would not auger well for current owners to make a profit.
The predicament they would then face is to open their purse strings or face a big loss on their holdings.
That is only conjecture on my part but don't let me put anyone off voicing displeasure at the current state of affairs.
In our case what will affect those in power is money or the threat of losing it. That will happen if and when Barclays call in the loans.
In that scenario as happened with the RS buyers will come out of the woodwork. That type of fire sale would not auger well for current owners to make a profit.
The predicament they would then face is to open their purse strings or face a big loss on their holdings.
That is only conjecture on my part but don't let me put anyone off voicing displeasure at the current state of affairs.
Dominic Bobadilla
51 Posted 17/09/2011 at 12:40:16
51 Posted 17/09/2011 at 12:40:16
Anthony and Tom: I hear what you, but I fully disagree. Virtually all Evertonians have bought into Bill's arguments in favour of stringency. Incidentally, these are the same kind of arguments the Torys use to justify their cutbacks on public spending. I am not saying that our economic condition is healthy, but neither is it precarious. The reason for our sorry state is mismanagement and not the lack of money.
Martin Mason
52 Posted 17/09/2011 at 13:04:44
52 Posted 17/09/2011 at 13:04:44
Dominic do you have any ideas about how Everton can magically increase its revenue or is it just wishful thinking that BK out means money in? I notice you compare our situation with that of government. Perhaps we can buy Bill a printing press and like the Bank of England he can do some Quantitative Easing and print his own money?
Tom Hughes
53 Posted 17/09/2011 at 13:00:03
53 Posted 17/09/2011 at 13:00:03
lDominic,
iI don't think you will find any footy experts who would say these clubs are in a more precarious position than ours. We have to sell to continue trading..... we already have the smallest squad in the league and couldn't even field a proper centre-forward last wk. They already have much more modern and larger stadiums and bigger fanbases.... and enjoy turnovers that are multiples of ours. They will be the ones competing for trophies. That wasn't always the case. We have simply stood still and are now the also-rans and minnows of this league. "Best of the rest" may even be beyond us from now on. We may all be forced to accept prudence..... that does not mean we have to accept the incompetence and mismanagement that has forced it on us.
iI don't think you will find any footy experts who would say these clubs are in a more precarious position than ours. We have to sell to continue trading..... we already have the smallest squad in the league and couldn't even field a proper centre-forward last wk. They already have much more modern and larger stadiums and bigger fanbases.... and enjoy turnovers that are multiples of ours. They will be the ones competing for trophies. That wasn't always the case. We have simply stood still and are now the also-rans and minnows of this league. "Best of the rest" may even be beyond us from now on. We may all be forced to accept prudence..... that does not mean we have to accept the incompetence and mismanagement that has forced it on us.
Martin Mason
54 Posted 17/09/2011 at 13:46:21
54 Posted 17/09/2011 at 13:46:21
I'm not sure that it was mismanagement that caused us not to soar with the Uniteds and Chelseas just that when it came to increasing revenue to compete EFC was never going to be an attractive proposition. The only chance we had was a 1984 type magic moment where the team gelled and got into the CL and became visible around the world to get revenue flowing from sales of goods in the far East. We don't have anything to sell except players, we have a good but too shallow a squad to make a breakthrough, we are not going to find a benefactor in the current economic climate. We are a big club historically but a small club financially and that's all that matters. Everybody is realising now exactly where we are and this could even see declining gates from now on as without hope there's nothing.
Kevin Hudson
55 Posted 17/09/2011 at 17:55:01
55 Posted 17/09/2011 at 17:55:01
Anthony,
Balanced or not, you haven't said anything original. I simply didn't see the point of yet another Kenwright article.
Balanced or not, you haven't said anything original. I simply didn't see the point of yet another Kenwright article.
Dennis Stevens
56 Posted 17/09/2011 at 18:36:52
56 Posted 17/09/2011 at 18:36:52
Martin, the mismanagement was in blowing the KD opportunity. That new stadium would have been no guarantee of success, but at least the Board would have been seen to have fulfilled their responsibility to facilitate success. To date they have brought nothing to the club but failure.
Dominic Bobadilla
57 Posted 17/09/2011 at 20:46:21
57 Posted 17/09/2011 at 20:46:21
Hello Tom: who are these experts you are referring to? The footy experts represent the quintessential filth among the journalists. If I am to find out what is going on, I shall avoid anything that these fools might have to say. The fact of the matter is that England is country run by scoundrels who have consistently been providing a safe haven to war criminals and crooks (e.g., Abramovich and Berezovsky). The English Premier League is a criminal enterprise serving the purpose of money laundering and other shady dealings. Thank God that Everton are not a part of this. If these footy experts had the balls to ask the right questions and to seek out their answers, people might just have seen things in a different light.
As for Everton, they are an attractive club with many unique and marketable features. Everton should have a public relations department with at least a dozen PR-officers engaged on a full-time basis who should device new and imaginative schemes with a view to making Everton an attractive commodity in South America, Africa, and the Far East. I myself have at least 101 concrete ideas in this regard. I would be happy to share them Bill, if he has the time to listen to what I have to say.
As for Everton, they are an attractive club with many unique and marketable features. Everton should have a public relations department with at least a dozen PR-officers engaged on a full-time basis who should device new and imaginative schemes with a view to making Everton an attractive commodity in South America, Africa, and the Far East. I myself have at least 101 concrete ideas in this regard. I would be happy to share them Bill, if he has the time to listen to what I have to say.
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1 Posted 15/09/2011 at 21:51:51
He bought the shares to own us, sure. But it is on public record (through Robert Elstone our CEO) that he has never put a penny of his own into Everton Football Club.