Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Overseas TV Revenue Change?
By Matt Traynor :: 12/10/2011
51 Comments (»Last)
Liverpool FC are currently trying to get the split of the overseas TV revenue changed to better reflect the appeal of the top clubs.Currently the Domestic TV deal is 50% flat fee, 25% facility fees (number of live appearances, minimum 10), and 25% prize money (around £750k per place). For the top earners last season (Man Utd), this was about £66m, for the bottom earner (Blackpool|) it was about £39m. It's the most equitable TV deal of any major league, and is unlikely that it will ever change.
The overseas TV deal is different. Now unified so the term is the same as the domestic agreement, it is done under long-form contract agreement with overseas broadcasters.
The current deal gives all clubs an equal share of around £18m a season. Therefore with the domestic guaranteed minimum, this gives around £57m a season before matchday revenue and commercial. (This really shows why EFC are way underperforming in these other primary revenue streams).
LFC's argument is that people in the UK subscribe to Sky to just watch their own team (note that you are only guaranteed 10 games, and around half of the league teams do in fact get shown only ten times).
MD Ian Ayres (who apparently spent half of his life growing up in Asia) reckons that it's the same overseas, and therefore clubs should be able to negotiate their own overseas TV deals.
I hope this won't happen, and believe it won't for a number of reasons:
? For us it'd be devastating to revenue. We are already too dependent on TV broadcast revenue as a proportion of total revenue, and given we already lose £5m pa, then you can see how this would make things worse, quickly.
? I can't imagine the majority of teams going for this (turkeys voting for Christmas etc)
? Liverpool (and Man Utd, Chelsea, City, and Arsenal) already benefit disproportionately through "global" appeal and their sponsorship deals.
? The fact that these teams are shown so much on the overseas market is a facsimile of the UK media coverage of them ? in some markets therefore people will naturally align themselves with certain teams cos they're the only teams they ever see.
? I believe Liverpool are panicking slightly here. Man Utd and Chelsea are now joined with City as the teams with resources to cement their CL places. Therefore Liverpool are "relegated" to duking it out with Arsenal, and whoever that season's surprise package is for the 4th place / CL qualifier slot.
NESV are not going to commit similar resources.
As mentioned earlier, our proportion of matchday and commercial revenue is too low. We know the limitations of matchday due to the stadium, but I believe we should be doing more on the commercial side given:
? We have a large Asian corporate as main sponsor
? We have some of the top overseas players in their domains (Cahill, Howard etc)
? The likes of Chelsea have now opened an office in Singapore to look for new sponsorship opportunities (they already have an Asian sponsor). You can bet this can also be to look for new investment if it was ever needed.
I don't know that Everton aren't pursuing this, but I believe they should. Sad to say, but in the same way that a lot of British companies are now foreign-owned (loved the indignation over the loss of that contract for our Canadian train builders!), it's likely that any new owners / investment etc will come from overseas. Hope we've not already missed that boat, along with all the others.
Reader Comments (51)
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Steve Sweeney
2 Posted 12/10/2011 at 14:21:56
2 Posted 12/10/2011 at 14:21:56
Not only am I sick to the back teeth of them never once apologising for the death of 39 Italians. Now the Spent force from the Dark side are asking to get a BIGGER SHARE of the foreign TV money.
Why don't we let Man Utd et al fuck off to join with the so-called elite of Europe and form their own not-so-super league? Maybe then we could get back to proper football, played at 3 o'clock on a Saturday with the odd live TV game.
Do these so called prima donas of the Premier League actually bring anything to the table? Or do they just fuel the fires of the media circus that is so self patronising? Would any less turn up on a Saturday to watch Everton Vs Aston Villa as do now? Maybe Football would be better off without them, and then let us see how they get on without English Football.
I would go back to watching LIVE a league that is not so one-dimensional as that only 1 out of 3 clubs can finish top. So Fuck off RED SHITE ? and take the other badge kissers with you.
Why don't we let Man Utd et al fuck off to join with the so-called elite of Europe and form their own not-so-super league? Maybe then we could get back to proper football, played at 3 o'clock on a Saturday with the odd live TV game.
Do these so called prima donas of the Premier League actually bring anything to the table? Or do they just fuel the fires of the media circus that is so self patronising? Would any less turn up on a Saturday to watch Everton Vs Aston Villa as do now? Maybe Football would be better off without them, and then let us see how they get on without English Football.
I would go back to watching LIVE a league that is not so one-dimensional as that only 1 out of 3 clubs can finish top. So Fuck off RED SHITE ? and take the other badge kissers with you.
Matt Traynor
3 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:09:33
3 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:09:33
Steve (#2), they already have that not-so-super Euro League. In finishing runners up last season, Man U trousered something like £90m from the Euro TV/prize pot alone.
Hence why the likes of RS are desperate to compete. In a way, the top 4 cartel becoming a top 3 cartel, with a fight for the place in a qualifier makes it likely that one of these clubs will go tits up. Arsenal are believed to be low-debt, having covered much of the stadium costs with the development and sale of the Highbury apartments. Hence their matchday revenue dwarfs the RS. They could probably survive 1-2 seasons without CL revenue. The RS are already in their 2nd season of non-CL revenue. Can they afford a 3rd, or 4th?
Hence why the likes of RS are desperate to compete. In a way, the top 4 cartel becoming a top 3 cartel, with a fight for the place in a qualifier makes it likely that one of these clubs will go tits up. Arsenal are believed to be low-debt, having covered much of the stadium costs with the development and sale of the Highbury apartments. Hence their matchday revenue dwarfs the RS. They could probably survive 1-2 seasons without CL revenue. The RS are already in their 2nd season of non-CL revenue. Can they afford a 3rd, or 4th?
Alan Clarke
4 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:19:29
4 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:19:29
If clubs get their own TV rights then clubs should also be able to say whether their team is shown against another team. So if the RS want to take more money from their own TV deal, Everton charge them to show the derby otherwise Everton don't allow it to be shown.
I think this is a non-starter because after the recent ruling for pubs to be able to show the Premier League on cheaper foreign channels and also the rise in internet streams for games, the money from TV is going to fall.
I think this is a non-starter because after the recent ruling for pubs to be able to show the Premier League on cheaper foreign channels and also the rise in internet streams for games, the money from TV is going to fall.
Dave Lynch
5 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:23:00
5 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:23:00
Think they are trying to go down the Real Madrid route.
They will be able to negotiate their own price, sell the live rights to different countries and trouser the whole lot.
I was waiting for one of the big 5 (throws up his dinner) to attempt this and it would be a massive earner if succesfull.
It would enable any prem club ala Madrid to buy massive and pay massive wages.
The gulf between the top clubs would grow wider and wider, leaving the rest to scrap over the leftovers.
The yanks will turn them into a franchise for massive rewards.
Footy really is fooked lads !
They will be able to negotiate their own price, sell the live rights to different countries and trouser the whole lot.
I was waiting for one of the big 5 (throws up his dinner) to attempt this and it would be a massive earner if succesfull.
It would enable any prem club ala Madrid to buy massive and pay massive wages.
The gulf between the top clubs would grow wider and wider, leaving the rest to scrap over the leftovers.
The yanks will turn them into a franchise for massive rewards.
Footy really is fooked lads !
Kevin Tully
6 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:32:23
6 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:32:23
They will have to convince the poorer relations ( such as us ) to vote for the change. Can't see that happening.
The only other way is to start again, with the P.L. agreement being torn up and the big clubs going it alone from 2013.
Spot on Matt # 3. The fuckers want to change the rules because they see their support dwindling because they are not in the C.L.
If they fall back any further, their overseas fanbase will soon transfer to City, because they will win things. Glory hunters have no loyalty to losers.
The R.S's new owners have indentified these revenues before they bought them. If they don't get their way, watch any investment dry up for transfers.
As for us, the new deal in 2013 will be bigger than the £1.4 B we share now. Bill is not THAT stupid, he knew this deal was coming, and he and the board know this could make Everton very attractive.
The only other way is to start again, with the P.L. agreement being torn up and the big clubs going it alone from 2013.
Spot on Matt # 3. The fuckers want to change the rules because they see their support dwindling because they are not in the C.L.
If they fall back any further, their overseas fanbase will soon transfer to City, because they will win things. Glory hunters have no loyalty to losers.
The R.S's new owners have indentified these revenues before they bought them. If they don't get their way, watch any investment dry up for transfers.
As for us, the new deal in 2013 will be bigger than the £1.4 B we share now. Bill is not THAT stupid, he knew this deal was coming, and he and the board know this could make Everton very attractive.
Chris Taggart
7 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:36:56
7 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:36:56
Want a bigger share of the TV revenues then why don't you win the fuckin league, like your fans have been carping on for years.
All this suggests is that the purse strings are about to get tighter over at Anfield. It's gonna be Hicks and Gillette all over again.
and if your looking to win friends and influence people perhaps pissing off Phil Gartside is not a shrewd business move.
Piss and vinegar of the highest order
All this suggests is that the purse strings are about to get tighter over at Anfield. It's gonna be Hicks and Gillette all over again.
and if your looking to win friends and influence people perhaps pissing off Phil Gartside is not a shrewd business move.
Piss and vinegar of the highest order
Tommy Gibbons
8 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:43:49
8 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:43:49
It really is up to the other clubs to stand up and say they will not play games against ANY team who has its own TV deal to the detriment of the league, whether that be domestic or European.
And when the so-called elite piss off and form their own league they should be told that they will never be invited back to play in the domestic league they leave. Football will survive without them as it's always done... maybe, just maybe it may become affordable for the ordinary punter to be able to watch a game at a decent time on a Saturday...
Just slightly off topic, isn't it about time we cut the horrendous wages we pay to footballers?
And when the so-called elite piss off and form their own league they should be told that they will never be invited back to play in the domestic league they leave. Football will survive without them as it's always done... maybe, just maybe it may become affordable for the ordinary punter to be able to watch a game at a decent time on a Saturday...
Just slightly off topic, isn't it about time we cut the horrendous wages we pay to footballers?
Denis Richardson
9 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:46:03
9 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:46:03
This has been tried before by one of the 'big' clubs and just like the last time, will fail again.
Thankfully a minum of 14 clubs in the PL need to approve it and I cannot see anyway that at most 4-5 clubs would actually vote in favour.
What the 'big' clubs also fail to understand is that they may well attract a larger following abroad but it takes two sides to actually play a game of football. Without the other 15 odd 'non-big' clubs in the PL, there wouldn't be a bloody PL in the first place! If they want to try to do a European football league, good luck to them.
The Spanish model is so f*cked up where I believe Real Madrid and Barca get something like 80-85% of the TV money. This obviously leads to one obvious outcome, no other team can compete (unless bought by a billionaire!) so the two clubs just swap the title amoungst themselves.
This will blow over like it always does....
Thankfully a minum of 14 clubs in the PL need to approve it and I cannot see anyway that at most 4-5 clubs would actually vote in favour.
What the 'big' clubs also fail to understand is that they may well attract a larger following abroad but it takes two sides to actually play a game of football. Without the other 15 odd 'non-big' clubs in the PL, there wouldn't be a bloody PL in the first place! If they want to try to do a European football league, good luck to them.
The Spanish model is so f*cked up where I believe Real Madrid and Barca get something like 80-85% of the TV money. This obviously leads to one obvious outcome, no other team can compete (unless bought by a billionaire!) so the two clubs just swap the title amoungst themselves.
This will blow over like it always does....
Nick Entwistle
10 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:20:40
10 Posted 12/10/2011 at 15:20:40
Their argument falls down on the basis that a foreign individual supporting a club would first need to find a league of interest and importance before choosing a team. Simply, league choice comes before club choice.
If not, why Celtic, Rangers, Benfica, Ajax and a host of European greats are strapped for cash?
Perhaps noting their time and place at the top is threatening to come to a halt, without the means to compete, they need to take this advantage while they remain popular (have influence).
But lets not forget their Top/ Big/ Sky 4 status was down to right place right time. Nothing to do with history or success.
At the time there were six teams competing for three available CL spots.
Newcastle and Leeds imploded exactly at the time they were expanded to four places, and the teams finishing 7th 8th and 9th were in no position to make up the gap so the remaining 4 were nailed on certs for those places.
This was when the foreign market really bought into the PL and every guy in the East started to wear one of four shirts. Why on earth would they support a team who would at best finish 5th and out of the CL glamor?
Liverpool were right time right place. They should remember their 'success' in the PL was down to this good fortune, in which they in turn received a greater fortune.
This is another divine right issue from the RS. They are beneficiaries of a successful league that they have been one team of many to compete in and want to break free on contracts because their popularity is alllll down to them. Get back in line and wait for your hand out.
If not, why Celtic, Rangers, Benfica, Ajax and a host of European greats are strapped for cash?
Perhaps noting their time and place at the top is threatening to come to a halt, without the means to compete, they need to take this advantage while they remain popular (have influence).
But lets not forget their Top/ Big/ Sky 4 status was down to right place right time. Nothing to do with history or success.
At the time there were six teams competing for three available CL spots.
Newcastle and Leeds imploded exactly at the time they were expanded to four places, and the teams finishing 7th 8th and 9th were in no position to make up the gap so the remaining 4 were nailed on certs for those places.
This was when the foreign market really bought into the PL and every guy in the East started to wear one of four shirts. Why on earth would they support a team who would at best finish 5th and out of the CL glamor?
Liverpool were right time right place. They should remember their 'success' in the PL was down to this good fortune, in which they in turn received a greater fortune.
This is another divine right issue from the RS. They are beneficiaries of a successful league that they have been one team of many to compete in and want to break free on contracts because their popularity is alllll down to them. Get back in line and wait for your hand out.
Dave Lynch
11 Posted 12/10/2011 at 16:16:18
11 Posted 12/10/2011 at 16:16:18
Can't argue with any of that Nick.
But what bothers me is this. The yanks are shrewd cookies, what if they contest the decision with the arument that.
LFC is a private company and like other companies should be able to broker any deal/s they wish to for their own benefit.
I know it's simplistic but let's not forget that this is LFC and they usually get their own way aka CL spot when they didn't qualify.
The yanks will have thought this through and can you honestly see the spineless twats at the FA turning them down if they make enough noise about it.
Iv'e a feeling that a deal has already been brokered with the FA, or they would not have gone public about it.
But what bothers me is this. The yanks are shrewd cookies, what if they contest the decision with the arument that.
LFC is a private company and like other companies should be able to broker any deal/s they wish to for their own benefit.
I know it's simplistic but let's not forget that this is LFC and they usually get their own way aka CL spot when they didn't qualify.
The yanks will have thought this through and can you honestly see the spineless twats at the FA turning them down if they make enough noise about it.
Iv'e a feeling that a deal has already been brokered with the FA, or they would not have gone public about it.
Nick Entwistle
12 Posted 12/10/2011 at 16:44:36
12 Posted 12/10/2011 at 16:44:36
You're not wrong Dave. Possibly even about the FA.
Or perhaps like how the PL came into existence, because all clubs in the 92 had a share of TV money, they may be hoping to gain support from the other big clubs with this, get them all frustrated with any refusal, making a full time Euro league and the untold riches, and share price come all the more quicker!
The PL, Champions League, expansion of the World Cup, World Club Cup, were not born from inspired ideas, more from the idea that people were not getting enough. So why not Euro league? Hmmmm, all beginning to make sense.
Or perhaps like how the PL came into existence, because all clubs in the 92 had a share of TV money, they may be hoping to gain support from the other big clubs with this, get them all frustrated with any refusal, making a full time Euro league and the untold riches, and share price come all the more quicker!
The PL, Champions League, expansion of the World Cup, World Club Cup, were not born from inspired ideas, more from the idea that people were not getting enough. So why not Euro league? Hmmmm, all beginning to make sense.
Stephen Kenny
13 Posted 12/10/2011 at 17:00:53
13 Posted 12/10/2011 at 17:00:53
I think the septic tanks have seen the dosh needed to challenge at the top end and realised they haven't got it. They will also know the longer their out the big league the more the odds stack up against them getting back in.
They also know as a business they cannot generate it without building a new ground. And whether they would fill 60,000 plus is highly debatable
I know a number who were on the mythical "7 year waiting list"
They also know as a business they cannot generate it without building a new ground. And whether they would fill 60,000 plus is highly debatable
I know a number who were on the mythical "7 year waiting list"
James Martin
14 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:09:05
14 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:09:05
Would it even be the FA making the decision? Surely it would be the Premier League of which they need 2/3 to vote for this. I can't see 14 of the Premier League teams doing this somehow. Sounds like typical moaning RS. These owners are not the cashcows everyone makes them out to be. There's been worrying snippets all throughout the year from the owners.
All has gone quiet over the stadium issue, Henry has publcily expressed that he wants Champions League football, Ayre's already been out about how 'unfair' it was that Man U had Park Ji Sung and were reaping the revenue off this.
Basically they can feel themselves slipping away from the trough that they've had their snouts in for the last decade and now they're throwing their toys out the pram that it's not easy for them to get back. If they don't make Champions League this year, there'll be trouble for them.
All has gone quiet over the stadium issue, Henry has publcily expressed that he wants Champions League football, Ayre's already been out about how 'unfair' it was that Man U had Park Ji Sung and were reaping the revenue off this.
Basically they can feel themselves slipping away from the trough that they've had their snouts in for the last decade and now they're throwing their toys out the pram that it's not easy for them to get back. If they don't make Champions League this year, there'll be trouble for them.
Dennis Stevens
15 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:40:20
15 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:40:20
I've got no problem with each club negotiating their own TV deal ? just as long as half of the money then gets shared amongst all their opponents. I wouldn't dream of subscribing to Sky but would happily pay for Everton matches via EvertontTV if we could broadcast our own matches on t'interweb.
Jay Woods
16 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:42:25
16 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:42:25
The fully blown Euro league is con trick that none of the elite clubs want. Why so? How can I be so sure of that? Because in short order one or two will start to dominate the rest and then when 4-5 seasons go by without Bayern, Milan, Man Utd or Real Madrid not lifting their usual haul of domestic trophies they would have to endure their market share and prestige get damaged as a result. These predator clubs actually need the smaller fish like us to have someone to "glory over" on a regular, annual basis.
Andy Crooks
17 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:45:44
17 Posted 12/10/2011 at 18:45:44
You know, what... I think the Champions League is the dullest piece of shit on TV. It's not because we aren't in it. In fact, the only reason I would want us in it is because it would help fund our Premier League challenge.
Frankly, if Liverpool and the rest of the greedy bastards were to fuck off, it would be a good day. British football is about derby games, spirit and pride and a Saturday against people you can banter with in work. Liverpool against Lyons in the European League? ? They are welcome to it, the greedy wannabe, deluded, poisoned with entitlement, risible, laughable, phoney, cheating, (Stevie G) sad bastards.
Frankly, if Liverpool and the rest of the greedy bastards were to fuck off, it would be a good day. British football is about derby games, spirit and pride and a Saturday against people you can banter with in work. Liverpool against Lyons in the European League? ? They are welcome to it, the greedy wannabe, deluded, poisoned with entitlement, risible, laughable, phoney, cheating, (Stevie G) sad bastards.
Dennis Stevens
18 Posted 12/10/2011 at 19:13:52
18 Posted 12/10/2011 at 19:13:52
You're quite right, Jay. CL prestige depends on the majority of clubs being big fish in their respective domestic leagues. If you move them all on to a Euro-league then some will inevitably become the small fish of that new league - definitely bad for business.
Andy, you're also right - they can all fuck off, but they won't dare to.
Andy, you're also right - they can all fuck off, but they won't dare to.
Steve Cotton
19 Posted 12/10/2011 at 19:56:36
19 Posted 12/10/2011 at 19:56:36
'Premier League clubs should be able to do their own television deals abroad,' Liverpool's managing director Ian Ayre has said.
'Ian Ayre fears English sides will be left behind by their European rivals if overseas revenues continue to be shared equally between the league's 20 clubs.'
Basically even though no club outside the 'Sky' 6 or the 'rich' six, Liverpool are looking to try and encourage the selling of their own TV rights independently to the rest of the Prem. This would make the revenue streams increase for the big boys, but ultimately fall away for the lower teams.
it is designed to keep the poorer teams in their place, and make what is already a financial struggle even harder.
Don't forget if it wasnt for their action in the late 80s we may well have had a much higher european profile.
This smacks of the rich looking out for themselves at the expense of the poorer teams.
Ian Bennett
20 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:00:39
20 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:00:39
It's the biggest mistake anyone other than United should consider pushing. If this goes through, the gap between United and everyone will get bigger. Liverpool might make an extra say £20-30m out of it ? big deal if United make £100m. They will still be commercially streets ahead, and able to out-spend anyone else in sight. Liverpool will never be able to compete with United ? just look at their training kit deal with FedEx is more than Chang and that is just the start.
Matt Traynor
21 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:27:16
21 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:27:16
The issue is complicated because it is equitable in the Premier League through the Collective Agreement, whereas it's not in Spain and Italy, although I think Italy might be reverting to an EPL-type model soon as their league is now perceived as boring.
But, if RS are worried about European competition, why should their earnings from the domestic league "subsidise" that?
This has no doubt arisen after the ironically-titled "Leaders in Football" Conference last week. Ferguson said that he thought there should be more revenue for Man U from the overseas TV deal - BUT, that it should be a bigger deal in total - he was still in favour of the collective agreement.
It's not often that I would agree with him, I think all Ayre has done is alienate the club with the Chairmen of many of the other clubs.
I think there'll be at least 14 clubs ready to put this idea down.
But, if RS are worried about European competition, why should their earnings from the domestic league "subsidise" that?
This has no doubt arisen after the ironically-titled "Leaders in Football" Conference last week. Ferguson said that he thought there should be more revenue for Man U from the overseas TV deal - BUT, that it should be a bigger deal in total - he was still in favour of the collective agreement.
It's not often that I would agree with him, I think all Ayre has done is alienate the club with the Chairmen of many of the other clubs.
I think there'll be at least 14 clubs ready to put this idea down.
Sean Patton
22 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:23:47
22 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:23:47
Lads
You are all looking at this the wrong way remember when Everton played Man City one season at it was the earliest kick off in history 11:15 on a Sunday morning solely because the chinese viewers could watch the game primetime back east as we had Li Tie and they had Sun Jihai.
So with that in mind Everton simply sign the best two players in China and strike a deal with the broadcasters of 1 million a game and hey presto an extra £40 million a season.
As for the noisy neighbours, well, considering they can't get anyone to pay for their own channel in this country, I doubt there are people daft enough to fork out abroad.
You are all looking at this the wrong way remember when Everton played Man City one season at it was the earliest kick off in history 11:15 on a Sunday morning solely because the chinese viewers could watch the game primetime back east as we had Li Tie and they had Sun Jihai.
So with that in mind Everton simply sign the best two players in China and strike a deal with the broadcasters of 1 million a game and hey presto an extra £40 million a season.
As for the noisy neighbours, well, considering they can't get anyone to pay for their own channel in this country, I doubt there are people daft enough to fork out abroad.
Ryan Holroyd
23 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:48:06
23 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:48:06
Agree with Andy Crooks for the 1st time ever. Yikes what is going on.
Let the sky 4 plus city piss off to the european super league.
There are enough big clubs like us, Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds etc to start a new competition.
Let the sky 4 plus city piss off to the european super league.
There are enough big clubs like us, Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds etc to start a new competition.
Christine Foster
24 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:38:13
24 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:38:13
Hardly surprising from the RS really, smacks of a "A" typical capitalistic view from the stables of the Thatcher-Reegan era. A total absence of greater good in preference to take what you can and fuck the rest.
It's not only distasteful but smacks of desperation, a club who are trading on days of old, as opposed to any recent acheivements, trading on their name and history. It's a poor strategy by a club who have had significant investment and won't succeed other than face off to be in the running for best of the rest.
The Premier League is a corporate, a cartel if you like, of individual companies vying for position to share the spoils of an agreed package that guarantees the survival of all and the dominance of a few. This is merely a scene from Oliver... "Please sir, can I have more?"
Unless they go it alone, which they can't, no overseas TV company will sit across the table with them. We are in a global market with a global product that is available by satellite across borders, it would be impossible to police and impossible to ring fence.
The Premier League was set up as a means to promote globally the EPL, which it's been successful at. If you don't want to be in that club, then go somewhere else.
It's not only distasteful but smacks of desperation, a club who are trading on days of old, as opposed to any recent acheivements, trading on their name and history. It's a poor strategy by a club who have had significant investment and won't succeed other than face off to be in the running for best of the rest.
The Premier League is a corporate, a cartel if you like, of individual companies vying for position to share the spoils of an agreed package that guarantees the survival of all and the dominance of a few. This is merely a scene from Oliver... "Please sir, can I have more?"
Unless they go it alone, which they can't, no overseas TV company will sit across the table with them. We are in a global market with a global product that is available by satellite across borders, it would be impossible to police and impossible to ring fence.
The Premier League was set up as a means to promote globally the EPL, which it's been successful at. If you don't want to be in that club, then go somewhere else.
James McGrady
25 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:50:23
25 Posted 12/10/2011 at 20:50:23
They already issued in the commercialism of football by being the first club in the country to put a sponsor on their shirt now this...
They need this because they see that as long as they stay at Anfield they will be left behind via match day and commercial opportunities compared to United, Arsenal, City and (even because of higher London benefits) Chelsea and Spurs.
They are claiming that Real and Barca do it so they need to compete but look at how shit La Liga is because of that dominance.
I hope they just go and create a super league with the Real, Barca, Milan, United etc. They will be left miles behind the likes of them and their stadiums would be filled with even more tourists taking photos for 90 mins while their local fans are unable to afford to go.
We meanwhile can continue playing with similar traditional founder member, family clubs like Villa.
They need this because they see that as long as they stay at Anfield they will be left behind via match day and commercial opportunities compared to United, Arsenal, City and (even because of higher London benefits) Chelsea and Spurs.
They are claiming that Real and Barca do it so they need to compete but look at how shit La Liga is because of that dominance.
I hope they just go and create a super league with the Real, Barca, Milan, United etc. They will be left miles behind the likes of them and their stadiums would be filled with even more tourists taking photos for 90 mins while their local fans are unable to afford to go.
We meanwhile can continue playing with similar traditional founder member, family clubs like Villa.
Dave Lynch
26 Posted 12/10/2011 at 21:07:31
26 Posted 12/10/2011 at 21:07:31
For what my opinion's worth, I don't think the yanks give a flying fuck about where a fan comes from. Look at the NBL or NFL, the whole game is catered around how much advertising they can fit into the game because that's where the money is.
Imagine if they could sell it to all-comers, during half-time you could sell advertising revenue to every country who bought into the game and each country would have its own advertisers. The revenue would be collosal. They could easily say to the FA that they will forego any revenue they may earn from the Prem and in effect would be paying the FA to play in the Prem.
It would not matter what the smaller clubs say, because when Lancaster Gate smells cash, it will sell the soul of the game for the benefit of the few. It has already done that to an extent so don't hold yer breath that this is dead in the water. This is about money...
Imagine if they could sell it to all-comers, during half-time you could sell advertising revenue to every country who bought into the game and each country would have its own advertisers. The revenue would be collosal. They could easily say to the FA that they will forego any revenue they may earn from the Prem and in effect would be paying the FA to play in the Prem.
It would not matter what the smaller clubs say, because when Lancaster Gate smells cash, it will sell the soul of the game for the benefit of the few. It has already done that to an extent so don't hold yer breath that this is dead in the water. This is about money...
Dennis Stevens
27 Posted 12/10/2011 at 21:33:30
27 Posted 12/10/2011 at 21:33:30
The ironic thing is that, should this come to pass, Manure would be much bigger winners than RS.
Denis Richardson
28 Posted 12/10/2011 at 21:57:31
28 Posted 12/10/2011 at 21:57:31
Sam @20 ? I understand your thinking but seriously doubt we would be the ones signing the 'top' two Chinese players. We can't even sign someone on a free!
Also, the big clubs would just buy the top players from the Asian countries and wheel them out every now and then to sell more shirts.
Also, the big clubs would just buy the top players from the Asian countries and wheel them out every now and then to sell more shirts.
Chris Leyland
30 Posted 12/10/2011 at 23:27:05
30 Posted 12/10/2011 at 23:27:05
The cheeky arrogant bastards... (but why am I surprised?) Ayre fails to get the fact that whilst those Malaysians do indeed want to watch them, they do actually have to be in a league and playing someone else for that to happen.
I say let the Redshite do it and sell their own games ? only don't let them play against anyone else in the Premier League anymore as they don't want to be part of the collective going forward so they can fuck right off. They can play with themselves (afterall they are all wankers) every week. It be be Stevie G La's select 11 versus Jamie Carra's squeaky nobheads. All those foreign viewers can lap it up and the Yank owners will be coining it in.
I say let the Redshite do it and sell their own games ? only don't let them play against anyone else in the Premier League anymore as they don't want to be part of the collective going forward so they can fuck right off. They can play with themselves (afterall they are all wankers) every week. It be be Stevie G La's select 11 versus Jamie Carra's squeaky nobheads. All those foreign viewers can lap it up and the Yank owners will be coining it in.
James Flynn
31 Posted 13/10/2011 at 01:07:35
31 Posted 13/10/2011 at 01:07:35
The LFC group own the American red shit over here in baseball. They have their own TV station and make a ton of dough from it. They're very good business men. Nothing more or less. They're angling to push out RS games over that channel.
Eric Myles
32 Posted 13/10/2011 at 02:43:14
32 Posted 13/10/2011 at 02:43:14
Dave #24 "during half time you could sell advertising revenue to every country who bought into the game and each country would have it's own advertisers."
This already happens, the local channel that shows the game just turns off the English broadcast and shows their own local adverts with no revenue going to the original broadcasters.
This already happens, the local channel that shows the game just turns off the English broadcast and shows their own local adverts with no revenue going to the original broadcasters.
Peter Barry
33 Posted 13/10/2011 at 03:27:53
33 Posted 13/10/2011 at 03:27:53
This is just the RS confirming exactly what they are a greedy grasping load of bastards. Oh, and did I mention they are a load of whining cheats too and colossal HYPOCRITES whinging about THEIR supporters deaths while conveniently and completely ignoring the Italians they MURDERED at Heysel.
Dave Lynch
34 Posted 13/10/2011 at 09:08:34
34 Posted 13/10/2011 at 09:08:34
The point is Eric.
If the shite sell the rights to the match, then you can bet your life they will want the advertising revenue.
They could in effect broadcast the whole game via their own channel and sell to different countries.
If it's through their own channel they will control the advertising.
If the shite sell the rights to the match, then you can bet your life they will want the advertising revenue.
They could in effect broadcast the whole game via their own channel and sell to different countries.
If it's through their own channel they will control the advertising.
Shaun Brennan
35 Posted 13/10/2011 at 09:28:24
35 Posted 13/10/2011 at 09:28:24
Isn't this all just a extension of the premier league tv rights? Afterall we broke away with the other "big" clubs to form/push abut the premier league. This is just a evolution of that even 25 years ago.
I don't know why we are complaining. After all the big clubs will obviously try to look after themselves. We did this once. But sadly missed the boat.
I don't know why we are complaining. After all the big clubs will obviously try to look after themselves. We did this once. But sadly missed the boat.
Shaun Brennan
36 Posted 13/10/2011 at 09:30:54
36 Posted 13/10/2011 at 09:30:54
Barry (32)
We were greedy grasping load of bastards once. Back at the advent of the premier league.
We were greedy grasping load of bastards once. Back at the advent of the premier league.
Eric Myles
37 Posted 13/10/2011 at 10:35:49
37 Posted 13/10/2011 at 10:35:49
David #33, but it would be very difficult for them to tailor their advertising broadcast from Anfield for 2 different countries, never mind 50 different countries with all the different languages and local restrictions on what is allowed to be advertised.
Dave Lynch
38 Posted 13/10/2011 at 11:05:35
38 Posted 13/10/2011 at 11:05:35
The game would just be broadcast from Anfield Eric.
They would buy the air time and sell it at half time to the advertisers. It's not rocket science mate and it happens in America where the world series is broadcast across the states but each state has it's own advertisers.
Technology can do anything these days and as i stated earlier these Yanks are shrewd cookies and will have it well thought out.
Maybe James Flynn can shed a bit more light on how this would work ?
They would buy the air time and sell it at half time to the advertisers. It's not rocket science mate and it happens in America where the world series is broadcast across the states but each state has it's own advertisers.
Technology can do anything these days and as i stated earlier these Yanks are shrewd cookies and will have it well thought out.
Maybe James Flynn can shed a bit more light on how this would work ?
Brian Denton
39 Posted 13/10/2011 at 11:10:27
39 Posted 13/10/2011 at 11:10:27
Shaun, are you the guy who is always saying "Everton were the City of the 60s with John Moore's millions" ? And now "We were one of the original EPL greedy bastards". What, pray, are you trying to do here ? Make us feel guilty and accuse us of being hypocrites who made our own bed and should now lie in it ? Presumably your condemnation is also aimed at Blues in their late twenties and under who weren't even around when the EPL was being formed.
Shaun Brennan
40 Posted 13/10/2011 at 11:32:01
40 Posted 13/10/2011 at 11:32:01
Brian (38) - Your putting words into my mouth which i never said, never mentiond the 60's. Wasn't around, me being in my late 20s and all that.
No not condoning anyone either - why are you doing that again?
Just asking for a bit of reflection before we all go slagging off everyone else.
No not condoning anyone either - why are you doing that again?
Just asking for a bit of reflection before we all go slagging off everyone else.
Chris Bannantyne
41 Posted 13/10/2011 at 17:57:21
41 Posted 13/10/2011 at 17:57:21
It's a joke. Surely extra money should be earned on merit alone (ie, winning the league) and not on some sort of popularity contest. This isn't fucking "X-factor" ? it's a fucking sport competition. Don't worry, Liverpool ? you will soon lose your popularity when you continue to win fuck all.
If they believe the elite clubs should get more money, then fine. But, last time I checked, Liverpool weren't an elite club, so that rules them out then.
As stated before, the disparity in the Premier League is already ridiculous, you pretty much need a spare billion to win the competition as it is, taking the (comparatively) little money away from the less popular clubs would destroy what little semblance of a fair competition is left.
Fucking kopites. Rant over.
If they believe the elite clubs should get more money, then fine. But, last time I checked, Liverpool weren't an elite club, so that rules them out then.
As stated before, the disparity in the Premier League is already ridiculous, you pretty much need a spare billion to win the competition as it is, taking the (comparatively) little money away from the less popular clubs would destroy what little semblance of a fair competition is left.
Fucking kopites. Rant over.
Chris Bannantyne
42 Posted 13/10/2011 at 18:26:57
42 Posted 13/10/2011 at 18:26:57
Oh, and in Australia you can watch every game live. Obviously I only get particularly excited about the Everton game, but being a fan of football in general, I will also watch whatever other games happen to be on at the time.
Now if the TV analyst guys happen to catch me watching Man Utd, Chelski or the shite and then assume I am a fan of those teams, then they would be dead wrong, and I would be dead insulted. Last season I took a bit of a shining to Blackpool because of their fearless attitude, and because Ian Holloway was a bit of a funny bastard. That would be the only time I would accept someone claiming I was partial to another team besides Everton.
Oh, and Blackpool did the double over the shite, so I don't think I was the only Evertonian who cheered them on from time to time.
Now if the TV analyst guys happen to catch me watching Man Utd, Chelski or the shite and then assume I am a fan of those teams, then they would be dead wrong, and I would be dead insulted. Last season I took a bit of a shining to Blackpool because of their fearless attitude, and because Ian Holloway was a bit of a funny bastard. That would be the only time I would accept someone claiming I was partial to another team besides Everton.
Oh, and Blackpool did the double over the shite, so I don't think I was the only Evertonian who cheered them on from time to time.
Ken Buckley
43 Posted 13/10/2011 at 20:38:25
43 Posted 13/10/2011 at 20:38:25
I just wonder if this putting the toe in the water of TV overseas rights has anything to do with the yanks realizing just how much it costs to reach the top of the Prem and they just havn't got it? In these uncertain financial times, their position may not be as rosy as we are led to believe. Stranger things have happened...
Dick Fearon
44 Posted 13/10/2011 at 20:54:34
44 Posted 13/10/2011 at 20:54:34
Ken # 42, You may be close to the truth about those yanks. To gain control plus their spend on players and staff changes would be about £400 mil and that does not include the cost of a new or refurbished stadium nor the spectre of Gillett and Hicks coming back to haunt them.
Within a few years they have to get into the champions league or face a severe financial problem. John Henry has already stated the seriousness of that situation.
An old proverb comes to mind, 'the bigger they are" etc etc.
Within a few years they have to get into the champions league or face a severe financial problem. John Henry has already stated the seriousness of that situation.
An old proverb comes to mind, 'the bigger they are" etc etc.
Dave Lynch
45 Posted 13/10/2011 at 21:52:59
45 Posted 13/10/2011 at 21:52:59
Dick ? Oh how I pray to god you are right in that statement.
I would personally fly to Ozz and buy you a pint if the bastards went under but remember these are the devil's spawn and the devil looks after his own.
Can you honestly see the FA letting them go under, cos I can't. I would dearly love to see the self-righteous twats that call themselves the Spirit of Shankly squirm and whimper as their club crashes and burns.
I would personally fly to Ozz and buy you a pint if the bastards went under but remember these are the devil's spawn and the devil looks after his own.
Can you honestly see the FA letting them go under, cos I can't. I would dearly love to see the self-righteous twats that call themselves the Spirit of Shankly squirm and whimper as their club crashes and burns.
Jimmy Hacking
46 Posted 14/10/2011 at 10:55:36
46 Posted 14/10/2011 at 10:55:36
I think most of you are missing the point here, and though I will inevitably get slaughtered for saying this, I actually sympathise with the RS.
The RS are a hugely popular club with overseas viewers; if supporters in China or Malaysia or wherever want to see RS matches on TV week-in, week-out, then why on earth should the club share this revenue with clubs like Wigan and Bolton?
It's like Metallica going on a huge money-spinning worldwide tour, and then releasing an album which sells 20 million copies, but then being told by the bosses of the Heavy-Metal Premier League that they have to share the millions they have earned between themselves and 19 smaller rock bands.
I hate to say it, but the more popular clubs are perfectly entitled to grab every penny they generate.
The RS are a hugely popular club with overseas viewers; if supporters in China or Malaysia or wherever want to see RS matches on TV week-in, week-out, then why on earth should the club share this revenue with clubs like Wigan and Bolton?
It's like Metallica going on a huge money-spinning worldwide tour, and then releasing an album which sells 20 million copies, but then being told by the bosses of the Heavy-Metal Premier League that they have to share the millions they have earned between themselves and 19 smaller rock bands.
I hate to say it, but the more popular clubs are perfectly entitled to grab every penny they generate.
Nick Entwistle
47 Posted 14/10/2011 at 11:17:35
47 Posted 14/10/2011 at 11:17:35
Jimmy, their popularity comes from the league they compete in. In this case, the Premier League brand, pushed and promoted across the world.
You don't find Asian fans all excited for the climax of one league, but find their chosen team plays in another, which they have no emotion for. League comes before club choice. You don't have one without the other.
Say the English were not football fans and had their interest peak somewhere with dressage and water polo ? and yet as C4 did in the 90s introducing Football Italia, who would we all support? Lazio, Milan, Sampdoria who were big at the time. Yet it was the league that was chosen to be shown. Not the individual teams.
If some teams' fanbase grows on the basis they were successful at the time the league was bought into, they should be decent and view themselves as just one of 20 and be thankful they compete in a popular brand enabling them to be competitive in Europe and not see their league and continental chances suffer like most others.
You don't find Asian fans all excited for the climax of one league, but find their chosen team plays in another, which they have no emotion for. League comes before club choice. You don't have one without the other.
Say the English were not football fans and had their interest peak somewhere with dressage and water polo ? and yet as C4 did in the 90s introducing Football Italia, who would we all support? Lazio, Milan, Sampdoria who were big at the time. Yet it was the league that was chosen to be shown. Not the individual teams.
If some teams' fanbase grows on the basis they were successful at the time the league was bought into, they should be decent and view themselves as just one of 20 and be thankful they compete in a popular brand enabling them to be competitive in Europe and not see their league and continental chances suffer like most others.
Gary Mortimer
48 Posted 14/10/2011 at 13:13:54
48 Posted 14/10/2011 at 13:13:54
Considering that if you look at all the televised matches scheduled so far this season, our neighbours will actually be shown live on Sky more than any other Prem club, they are on course to recieve a larger pay out than all the other clubs anyway.
We all know how much the Media still think of them as contenders ? who wasn't nausiated with the "Return of the King" nonsense at the Anfield derby last season? From the coverage, it was only as the teams came out onto the pitch did Sky mention that Liverpool were playing against another team!
I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. So they need more money to compete with bigger clubs (ha! ha! at last they admit it) ? big deal, join the club! By the way they do not need to compete against Barca and Real Madrid ? they do not play in any of the same competitions... no matter how much they try to change the rules!
We all know how much the Media still think of them as contenders ? who wasn't nausiated with the "Return of the King" nonsense at the Anfield derby last season? From the coverage, it was only as the teams came out onto the pitch did Sky mention that Liverpool were playing against another team!
I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. So they need more money to compete with bigger clubs (ha! ha! at last they admit it) ? big deal, join the club! By the way they do not need to compete against Barca and Real Madrid ? they do not play in any of the same competitions... no matter how much they try to change the rules!
James Lauwervine
49 Posted 14/10/2011 at 13:46:35
49 Posted 14/10/2011 at 13:46:35
Jimmy #45 ? I don't get the Metallica analogy at all. They create, promote and sell their own product. RS have no product to sell without a team to play against and a league to play in.
Eugene Ruane
50 Posted 14/10/2011 at 19:21:33
50 Posted 14/10/2011 at 19:21:33
James Lauwervine (48) ? that basically sums it up for me. Utd have looked great winning many of their titles in recent years, but it's the nature of football that a great team needs sides to look great against. That's where we come in ? us and 'the rest'.
Liverpol's 'plan' (ie: that they negotiate their own TV deal etc) seems to me one born out of frustration and greed rather than any clear thinking. They know they have a zillion dead-eyed dolts around the world, prepared to 'support' them (ie: pay for their tat etc) and like a fat, greedy child looking at the last piece of cake, they can see nothing else.
The reality is though, they can't play themselves (easy!) every week and that's where (for once), we DO have a say (nb: or should).
"We'll form a Euro league lad"?. Je ne pense pas (as they say in Wales). Any talk about a euro league I believe is bollocks. It was first mooted in the mid 80s and I think If it was going to happen, it would have.
So they're stuck playing us and Stoke and Wolves and Villa and as long as 'we' keep our nerve, their near-sighted, self-serving, grasping plan, really is a non-starter. If I was in charge over there, I'd concentrate on flogging shirts, badges ("200 for five nicker lads") and capes to the Norwegians and not pissing off the (only!) clubs you play against week-in, week-out. Same goes for Utd.
Liverpol's 'plan' (ie: that they negotiate their own TV deal etc) seems to me one born out of frustration and greed rather than any clear thinking. They know they have a zillion dead-eyed dolts around the world, prepared to 'support' them (ie: pay for their tat etc) and like a fat, greedy child looking at the last piece of cake, they can see nothing else.
The reality is though, they can't play themselves (easy!) every week and that's where (for once), we DO have a say (nb: or should).
"We'll form a Euro league lad"?. Je ne pense pas (as they say in Wales). Any talk about a euro league I believe is bollocks. It was first mooted in the mid 80s and I think If it was going to happen, it would have.
So they're stuck playing us and Stoke and Wolves and Villa and as long as 'we' keep our nerve, their near-sighted, self-serving, grasping plan, really is a non-starter. If I was in charge over there, I'd concentrate on flogging shirts, badges ("200 for five nicker lads") and capes to the Norwegians and not pissing off the (only!) clubs you play against week-in, week-out. Same goes for Utd.
Phil Calland
51 Posted 15/10/2011 at 05:28:41
51 Posted 15/10/2011 at 05:28:41
Is this David Moyes's Revenge for Rafa's "small club" grenade?
From The Guardian, Andy Hunter 14/10/11
"David Moyes dismisses Liverpool's overseas TV broadcasting proposal
? The real big clubs would have done it already, Moyes said
? Everton manager says proposal will alienate Liverpool FC"
He's right of course, but this will do nothing to improve the toxic relations that have developed between the supporters
The article in full:
From The Guardian, Andy Hunter 14/10/11
"David Moyes dismisses Liverpool's overseas TV broadcasting proposal
? The real big clubs would have done it already, Moyes said
? Everton manager says proposal will alienate Liverpool FC"
He's right of course, but this will do nothing to improve the toxic relations that have developed between the supporters
The article in full:
The Everton manager, David Moyes has dismissed Liverpool?s proposal to sell overseas broadcasting rights on an individual basis.
David Moyes has dismissed Liverpool's proposal to sell overseas broadcasting rights on an individual basis arguing that "the real big clubs" would have already pursued that option if it was viable.
Manchester United and Chelsea have distanced themselves from the Liverpool managing director Ian Ayre's call for an end to collective bargaining. Now the Everton manager has questioned whether Liverpool, having failed to qualify for the Champions League for the past two seasons, are in a position to lead a break-up.
"My feeling is that it will never happen, because if it was going to happen the real big clubs would have done it," the Everton manager said. "Why would Manchester United not have done it? They've not done it because it would never get through, it would never get passed and I think all it's going to do is alienate Liverpool even further away from everyone else.
"Those sides who have been in the Champions League for the last three or four years would have done it long ago. I'm using Manchester United as an example; Manchester City are maybe slightly different because of their owner; Chelsea, maybe. Tottenham have been in there. They've done it and they've not had to try and get more money than anyone else. They've done it on the same money as everyone else."
Peter Barnes
52 Posted 19/10/2011 at 18:05:42
52 Posted 19/10/2011 at 18:05:42
Steve 2.The comments from LFC last week got me pondering the english league without the so called elite.
I have to say it is a landscape with a lot of pluses going for it.Level playing field and all that.
I have to say it is fair I believe to say fuck off to them and they should go and play in the far east if that is their prime concern.It Shouldnt bother the locals as they only watch them in the pub anyway.
I have to say it is a landscape with a lot of pluses going for it.Level playing field and all that.
I have to say it is fair I believe to say fuck off to them and they should go and play in the far east if that is their prime concern.It Shouldnt bother the locals as they only watch them in the pub anyway.
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1 Posted 12/10/2011 at 14:17:50
To be a supporter of the elite clubs would be pleasurable but even those are showing a fall in match going numbers.
RS's proposal would create a greater disparity between rich and poor clubs and we could end up with the two-club farce that is perpetuated year after boring year in the Spanish, Italian and Scottish premier divisions.
The proposal springs from a Fenway Sports last desperate try to raise funds for their long promised, longer delayed fast-disappearing pipe-dream of a new stadium.
All it would take to stop this proposal in its tracks is for non-elite clubs to refuse to play in any game where TV payment is lobsided.