Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
The Importance of Identity
By Paul Niklas :: 24/10/2011
81 Comments (»Last)
I spent an enjoyable day and evening in my beloved city the day of the Chelsea game. My normal Saturday routine would have been at Stamford Bridge for the game or at Goodison for any home game.
I travelled in by train arriving at Lime street about 3pm on the basis that my day out would consist of a nice meal a few drinks and a taxi home at the point I or the missus could drink no more,
We walked down towards Liverpool One and headed for the HUB restaurant. On arrival, the bar area was busy in the main with a group of about 30 Irish Liverpool supporters who had got there straight from the Man Utd game. Nothing unusual in that, you might say. We had lunch and a couple of bottles of wine by which time it was approaching 5pm. I said we needed to find a bar and watch the match so we left immediatley and headed up towards Victoria street at a pace, albeit hampered a bit by the wine.
As I was walking I began to notice many Liverpool supporters, Chinese, Spanish, various other nationalities draped in the colours Liverpool and lots of them carrying bags of merchandise.
I began to get that bitter feeling we all know and then it really hit me when I started to realise the global brand that is Liverpool FC, created mainly from its association with one of the best known cities in the world, some success on the footballing front and only enhanced by a couple of tragedies that do not need to be mentioned.
I arrived at the bar to be confronted by a number of Everton fans and more Liverpool fans, of unknown origin in most instances, to watch a game in which tactically we were appalling, but that's for another day.
I continued on into the evening to witness how different the city is when they are at home, the obvious bustle of the city, the obvious increased spend and the general feel that an occasion had happened that day.
This observation made me feel very disheartened and to be frank pretty damned pissed off with what they have become and what they now represent, which is the city of Liverpool.
This brings me to the point of my article and the question, what do we Everton Football club currently represent? Well, to be honest, I racked my brains and came up with not a lot really apart from a few things:
A suburb of Walton ?
A glorious past that ended in 1987.
and a club who's name is being dragged through the mud by a group of supporters who mean well but create completely the opposite.
The city of Liverpool belongs to all Liverpool people and equally Everton supporters, to a would-be buyer of the club the association with a well known city is attractive and something that can be built upon. Sadly Everton as a brand or a place has none of these attractions, therefore I want Everton fans to consider the unconsiderable and think what it could do if we rebranded our club and its name, wait for it,
"The city of Liverpool FC"
I know this may be hard to take and you may even think its a step to far, however in my opinion it is one of the key factors why we are not recognised as a potentially good acquisition as globally potential new support would find it difficult to make an association with us.
This city has world wide fame on many fronts and currently are neighbours exploit this to its full as do the press and the media in general when they talk about Liverpool FC, Its time for change and sometimes change requires out of the box thinking and radical if its to succeed but what have we got to lose apart from history which by definition has gone already, it wont remove are memories it might just create some potential new ones.
We would have every right to do it and nothing could stand in are way relating to trademarks and Brand identity issues, therefore its a consideration and one I would love someone at Everton Football club to look at seriously.
I await the undoubted ridicule and sentimentality argument which does not wash with me on the subject of Everton's future which does not lie in the past with Dixie Dean, the Holy Trinity or Howard Kendal, for that matter. It lies in whatever can attract investment to this club and its future.
Reader Comments (81)
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Robbie Muldoon
15 Posted 25/10/2011 at 18:32:53
15 Posted 25/10/2011 at 18:32:53
I too was walking through the city centre that day and I too noticed the sheer scale of foriegn and 'outside city' supporters.
But the effect this had on me was a genuine feeling of being proud to support Everton! The strange accents that I was hearing from all these glory hunters swamping the city centre for their biggest home game of the season provoked a parochial response inside me. They were indeed day trippers kitted out with cameras and club shop merchandise, and they were not scousers! There is no way I would enjoy a match day experience with supporters like that.
Remember when the Icelandic volcano ground all international flights? Well Anfield was down by 8,000 in attendance that week! That's a fact, an undeniable fact that 20% of Anfield is filled by foreigners.
This level of support is all well and good for the clubs finances, but I couldn't identify with support like that.
But the effect this had on me was a genuine feeling of being proud to support Everton! The strange accents that I was hearing from all these glory hunters swamping the city centre for their biggest home game of the season provoked a parochial response inside me. They were indeed day trippers kitted out with cameras and club shop merchandise, and they were not scousers! There is no way I would enjoy a match day experience with supporters like that.
Remember when the Icelandic volcano ground all international flights? Well Anfield was down by 8,000 in attendance that week! That's a fact, an undeniable fact that 20% of Anfield is filled by foreigners.
This level of support is all well and good for the clubs finances, but I couldn't identify with support like that.
Kevin Hudson
16 Posted 25/10/2011 at 18:42:51
16 Posted 25/10/2011 at 18:42:51
When you decided to submit a suggestion we rebrand our club & it's change it's name to:
"The City of Liverpool FC," did the thought: Never-In-A-Million-Years spring to mind?
Of course it did - but this didn't stop you, did it?
You added:
"I await the undoubted ridicule and sentimentality argument which does not wash with me."
Sorry, I'm afraid your corporate lexicon & seemingly innocent "brand concern,"query doesn't wash with me either.
The idea is insane. Paul, You're asking for a kicking and ineffectually trying to mask it, by pretending you've come up with a visionary & bold, thinking-outside-the-box, "concept."
"The City of Liverpool FC," did the thought: Never-In-A-Million-Years spring to mind?
Of course it did - but this didn't stop you, did it?
You added:
"I await the undoubted ridicule and sentimentality argument which does not wash with me."
Sorry, I'm afraid your corporate lexicon & seemingly innocent "brand concern,"query doesn't wash with me either.
The idea is insane. Paul, You're asking for a kicking and ineffectually trying to mask it, by pretending you've come up with a visionary & bold, thinking-outside-the-box, "concept."
Lyndon Lloyd
17 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:15:35
17 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:15:35
Indeed, Kevin, the suggestion to re-name and re-brand our great club as such was so ludicrous I even forgot to pass comment on it...
Ed Fitzgerald
18 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:05:51
18 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:05:51
Paul
What wine were you drinking? After reading your post I feel like I need a drink! Whilst I would agree that we don?t market the club as well as we should I do think that changing our name to the City of Liverpool FC would invite derision and ridicule and not just on Toffeeweb either.
If we had any form of success on the pitch the Everton brand would become fashionable again just as it has done in the past. Most people are fickle unless you are die hard supporters most people (and particularly youngsters) who have no affiliation to a particular area will switch allegiances quickly depending upon who is winning trophies. What is really hurting Everton is a lack of investment aligned with a generally dour style of football that would cure most insomniacs?
Your name change makes no sense anyway Arsenal FC is not named after anywhere ok it used to be Woolwich Arsenal and it does not have any issue with its marketing does it? Try to get over your bitterness about the league of nations that follow Liverpool. We should be proud of our name a certain football club not a million miles away wanted to be known as Everton Athletic until the League rejected it.
What wine were you drinking? After reading your post I feel like I need a drink! Whilst I would agree that we don?t market the club as well as we should I do think that changing our name to the City of Liverpool FC would invite derision and ridicule and not just on Toffeeweb either.
If we had any form of success on the pitch the Everton brand would become fashionable again just as it has done in the past. Most people are fickle unless you are die hard supporters most people (and particularly youngsters) who have no affiliation to a particular area will switch allegiances quickly depending upon who is winning trophies. What is really hurting Everton is a lack of investment aligned with a generally dour style of football that would cure most insomniacs?
Your name change makes no sense anyway Arsenal FC is not named after anywhere ok it used to be Woolwich Arsenal and it does not have any issue with its marketing does it? Try to get over your bitterness about the league of nations that follow Liverpool. We should be proud of our name a certain football club not a million miles away wanted to be known as Everton Athletic until the League rejected it.
Paul Niklas
19 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:26:58
19 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:26:58
Lyndon, I raise the debate on the basis of attracting a buyer only and for no other reason. I deplore what they stand for and to be frank I only brought the Blue Union into the debate as currently they are today's tee-shirt.... on top of the fact I could think of nothing else.
Potential buyers, whether we like it or not, are more likely to come from overseas, their motives you could never want to guess; however, global identity and a prized asset that can or does have world wide appeal is certainly on the shopping list and in my opinion we do not have that, nor have we ever had it.
In the scheme of things, Everton's operational debt would not put many serious buyers off; yes, the cost of a new stadium might but I think the stadium debate is flawed as I don't believe ultimately it would add any serious income for a club like Everton.
The Arsenal point is also moot as they are not for sale, are very profitable, and are in London... so attractive to any would-be buyer.
I seriously considered the article and, yes, I feel like most others "never in a million years". However, I currently feel that way about the club being sold and, unless something is done to make it more attractive, as without a buyer the debt won't come down, we will never challenge again and a new or redeveloped Goodison is as likely as Andy Carroll looking like a footballer.
Potential buyers, whether we like it or not, are more likely to come from overseas, their motives you could never want to guess; however, global identity and a prized asset that can or does have world wide appeal is certainly on the shopping list and in my opinion we do not have that, nor have we ever had it.
In the scheme of things, Everton's operational debt would not put many serious buyers off; yes, the cost of a new stadium might but I think the stadium debate is flawed as I don't believe ultimately it would add any serious income for a club like Everton.
The Arsenal point is also moot as they are not for sale, are very profitable, and are in London... so attractive to any would-be buyer.
I seriously considered the article and, yes, I feel like most others "never in a million years". However, I currently feel that way about the club being sold and, unless something is done to make it more attractive, as without a buyer the debt won't come down, we will never challenge again and a new or redeveloped Goodison is as likely as Andy Carroll looking like a footballer.
Lyndon Lloyd
20 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:48:19
20 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:48:19
"I deplore what they stand for"
You deplore what who stand for? The Blue Union? You can disagree with their methods but how can you deplore that they stand for greater accountability from the Board and providing an independent method of selling the Club?
"Potential buyers'... motives you could never want to guess, however Global identity and a prized asset that can or does have world wide appeal is certainly on the shopping list"
OK, so how many clubs fit that bill in the Premier League? And of those, how many are on the market? Of the remaining clubs, which are the most attractive in terms of potential and latent supporter base?
You deplore what who stand for? The Blue Union? You can disagree with their methods but how can you deplore that they stand for greater accountability from the Board and providing an independent method of selling the Club?
"Potential buyers'... motives you could never want to guess, however Global identity and a prized asset that can or does have world wide appeal is certainly on the shopping list"
OK, so how many clubs fit that bill in the Premier League? And of those, how many are on the market? Of the remaining clubs, which are the most attractive in terms of potential and latent supporter base?
David O'Keefe
21 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:47:59
21 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:47:59
Paul the only real issue stopping a sale is price. Everything else (stadium, debt, LFC in the city) is hot air. Do the owners deserve a return on their share purchase?
Rebranding the club won't make it a success, having owners that invest in the clubs team and infrastructure would certainly help. It would bring back the missing ST holders for a start. If the club wins trophy's, I may never be able to get a ticket again because of the level of demand.
Back to the branding issue are history and identity is all we have and you want to junk it for that name? Ye Gods! What have you been drinking and can I have some? Please?
Rebranding the club won't make it a success, having owners that invest in the clubs team and infrastructure would certainly help. It would bring back the missing ST holders for a start. If the club wins trophy's, I may never be able to get a ticket again because of the level of demand.
Back to the branding issue are history and identity is all we have and you want to junk it for that name? Ye Gods! What have you been drinking and can I have some? Please?
Paul Niklas
22 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:59:38
22 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:59:38
Lyndon ? It seems to me that the attraction is either a city name or a London club:
Manchester City
Manchester Utd
Liverpool
Newcastle
Tottenham
QPR
Chelsea
Fulham
Arsenal
All of the above have either been bought or have wealthy investors, like Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea and now QPR.
What is a fact is that 6 of the above will form possibly the top six in the Premier League this season and will for a long time to come.
Outside of these clubs, who is currently attractive? The answer I am afraid is none of the rest... and that includes Everton, albeit you could argue Villa but they were bought because they were the best of the rest at the time.
Lyndon, when I said I deplore what they stand for, I meant Liverpool, not the Blue Union; I actually admire their stance I just believe they will achieve nothing.
Manchester City
Manchester Utd
Liverpool
Newcastle
Tottenham
QPR
Chelsea
Fulham
Arsenal
All of the above have either been bought or have wealthy investors, like Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea and now QPR.
What is a fact is that 6 of the above will form possibly the top six in the Premier League this season and will for a long time to come.
Outside of these clubs, who is currently attractive? The answer I am afraid is none of the rest... and that includes Everton, albeit you could argue Villa but they were bought because they were the best of the rest at the time.
Lyndon, when I said I deplore what they stand for, I meant Liverpool, not the Blue Union; I actually admire their stance I just believe they will achieve nothing.
Gavin Ramejkis
23 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:51:50
23 Posted 25/10/2011 at 19:51:50
Paul its a pretty poor article, even more so when you think that three of the major shareholders at the club have plenty of experience in marketing and yet bring zero marketing to the club.
The whole re-branding angle is pretty week and we all know what the happened when the Post Office pissed away millions on their rebranding exercise.
We also all know you dislike the BU but its a very poor showing to blame them for the clubs woes which go back many many years, the publicity is merely putting into the public domain what a growing number of supporters already knew. The impact of this knowledge on potential buyers is negligible given the simple use of due dilligence would have shown the facts far more destructively.
I'd stick to the wine and enjoying a good night out with your wife and not let your neighbours in the Director's box failures to ruin them.
The whole re-branding angle is pretty week and we all know what the happened when the Post Office pissed away millions on their rebranding exercise.
We also all know you dislike the BU but its a very poor showing to blame them for the clubs woes which go back many many years, the publicity is merely putting into the public domain what a growing number of supporters already knew. The impact of this knowledge on potential buyers is negligible given the simple use of due dilligence would have shown the facts far more destructively.
I'd stick to the wine and enjoying a good night out with your wife and not let your neighbours in the Director's box failures to ruin them.
Trevor Mackie
24 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:09:45
24 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:09:45
We're Everton and we will remain Everton - we need a Mansoor or Abramovich - that's it.
Man City and Chelsea were both less of a brand pre benefactors and citeh rented their ground off the council.
Middle management warm words can try and excuse why BK and the other amateurs are still in charge but any street savvy soul can see Kenwright is an obstacle, and if I'm being less generous, up to no good.
Man City and Chelsea were both less of a brand pre benefactors and citeh rented their ground off the council.
Middle management warm words can try and excuse why BK and the other amateurs are still in charge but any street savvy soul can see Kenwright is an obstacle, and if I'm being less generous, up to no good.
Paul Niklas
25 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:15:56
25 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:15:56
Gavin, I do not in any way shape or form dislike the Blue Union, I have just stated I admire them I just don't think based on what I have witnessed they are anything but currently a short-term hobby for a few people.
I only cited them in the context of what currently people outside of the club and supporters see as they are currently active, which I suppose says a lot for the rest of the remaining identity.
I would also go as far to say that, with the best will in the world and the best marketeer, Everton is more of a challenge than most and I would challenge any one to currently list the unique selling points of the club that would attract a buyer or develop new support.
You're a better man than me if you can.
I only cited them in the context of what currently people outside of the club and supporters see as they are currently active, which I suppose says a lot for the rest of the remaining identity.
I would also go as far to say that, with the best will in the world and the best marketeer, Everton is more of a challenge than most and I would challenge any one to currently list the unique selling points of the club that would attract a buyer or develop new support.
You're a better man than me if you can.
David O'Keefe
26 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:22:00
26 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:22:00
"and a club whose name is being dragged through the mud by a group of supporters who mean well but create completely the opposite."...in your article.
"Lyndon, when I said I delore what they stand, for I meant Liverpool not the Blue Union, I actually admire their stance I just believe they will achieve nothing."
Paul, don't start lying and thinking you can get away with it.
"Lyndon, when I said I delore what they stand, for I meant Liverpool not the Blue Union, I actually admire their stance I just believe they will achieve nothing."
Paul, don't start lying and thinking you can get away with it.
Tim Postma
27 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:17:52
27 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:17:52
Although I'm a foreign supporter myself... Sorry can't help it...I was chosen 4 years ago ;-) when I visited my first game (Everton-Birmingham City 3-1). And indeed... my life was never the same again! I eat, drink and breathe Everton.
Whenever I read or hear the name 'Everton', it sends shivers down my spine! I'm proud of this fantastic family and accept the good and bad things.
Rebranding our club? Never! It's like chaging your last name. My dad would kill me!
Coming Saturday I'm screaming my lungs out for the boys in royal blue and for the club with that fantastic name: EVERTON!
COYB!
Tim (Holland).
Whenever I read or hear the name 'Everton', it sends shivers down my spine! I'm proud of this fantastic family and accept the good and bad things.
Rebranding our club? Never! It's like chaging your last name. My dad would kill me!
Coming Saturday I'm screaming my lungs out for the boys in royal blue and for the club with that fantastic name: EVERTON!
COYB!
Tim (Holland).
Paul Niklas
28 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:26:01
28 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:26:01
Trevor, I know what we need but how are you going to get it, that's a very easy thing to say.
They don't grow on trees and in the main they are astute business people who see an opportunity for what it's worth, if we were worth it it would have happened.
Do not believe for one minute that Bill is standing in the way, a sharp operator would make it worth it for Bill and other main shareholders if they really wanted the club the fact is no offer has come along and thats the top and bottom of it.
I also want to point out that whatever offer they get for the club the current shareholders are entitled to a return on their investment what that return maybe is up to them and a willing buyer to negotiate.
I wonder what Everton supporters would do if we did get a Mansour or Abromovich and day one they did change the name, change the name of the stadium at the same time as spending £350 million on a new team I would put money on it you would all love it.
They don't grow on trees and in the main they are astute business people who see an opportunity for what it's worth, if we were worth it it would have happened.
Do not believe for one minute that Bill is standing in the way, a sharp operator would make it worth it for Bill and other main shareholders if they really wanted the club the fact is no offer has come along and thats the top and bottom of it.
I also want to point out that whatever offer they get for the club the current shareholders are entitled to a return on their investment what that return maybe is up to them and a willing buyer to negotiate.
I wonder what Everton supporters would do if we did get a Mansour or Abromovich and day one they did change the name, change the name of the stadium at the same time as spending £350 million on a new team I would put money on it you would all love it.
Dennis Stevens
29 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:03:18
29 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:03:18
The Board blew the chance to heighten the club's profile & benefit from being associated with the City of Liverpool when they failed to deliver the Kings Dock stadium. Had that proceeded then we might now be as unpopular as Manchester City due to our wealthy backers - which might have left a bit of a bad taste behind for some, but I'd consider it a less worse position to the one we're currently in. However, whatever the future holds for the club largely depends upon the decisions made by our current Board, which only fills me with dread.
Dennis Stevens
30 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:42:41
30 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:42:41
By the way, Paul - the day we cease to be known as Everton is the day I no longer have a club to support. It's pretty difficult to be an Evertonian if there's no Everton!
John Ford
31 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:45:58
31 Posted 25/10/2011 at 20:45:58
Nuits St George!
Matt Woods
32 Posted 25/10/2011 at 23:12:48
32 Posted 25/10/2011 at 23:12:48
'Come on you City of Liverpool FC Boys!!' Hang your head in shame you clown... We are EVERTON!
Chris Jones [NZ]
33 Posted 25/10/2011 at 23:41:29
33 Posted 25/10/2011 at 23:41:29
There's a very real practical problem with your idea Paul (aside from it being pants) and that is that the football authorities might not allow us to muddy the water with a name change.
If you know your history you'd be aware that, when a certain club was being formed, they were refused entry to the league under the name Everton Athletic. They had to take second best and call themselves Liverpool FC instead.
If you know your history you'd be aware that, when a certain club was being formed, they were refused entry to the league under the name Everton Athletic. They had to take second best and call themselves Liverpool FC instead.
Tom Hughes
34 Posted 26/10/2011 at 00:14:40
34 Posted 26/10/2011 at 00:14:40
A joke...... yes?
Jamie Sweet
35 Posted 26/10/2011 at 01:41:04
35 Posted 26/10/2011 at 01:41:04
How about AFC Liverpool? This of course would be after Kenwright sends us into administration.
David Ellis
36 Posted 26/10/2011 at 06:13:07
36 Posted 26/10/2011 at 06:13:07
Liverpool (the City) has a shocking brand within the UK and very little resonance outside the UK.
Liverpool FC on the other hand is a global brand. I do not think sharing the name of the City has or does help them at all.
I think not having a name linked to a city is a positive ? but the brand needs to stand for something. Not sure what Everton stands for. The "People's Club" is very uninspiring for me ? totally parochial ? unfortunately that is rather close to the truth and sadly reinforced by some of the comments above.
The leadership of the club needs to establish some core values (no cheating, no diving, play the ball on the ground, youth development, no super stars... etc). And then stick to its guns. The brand will then mean something and we will have something to market globally with which people who love football (not just scousers ? a dwindling breed) can identify with.
[from an expat St Helens woolly back]
Liverpool FC on the other hand is a global brand. I do not think sharing the name of the City has or does help them at all.
I think not having a name linked to a city is a positive ? but the brand needs to stand for something. Not sure what Everton stands for. The "People's Club" is very uninspiring for me ? totally parochial ? unfortunately that is rather close to the truth and sadly reinforced by some of the comments above.
The leadership of the club needs to establish some core values (no cheating, no diving, play the ball on the ground, youth development, no super stars... etc). And then stick to its guns. The brand will then mean something and we will have something to market globally with which people who love football (not just scousers ? a dwindling breed) can identify with.
[from an expat St Helens woolly back]
Gavin McGarvey
37 Posted 26/10/2011 at 08:02:03
37 Posted 26/10/2011 at 08:02:03
On the subject of not wanting loads of glory hunting foreigners, flooding Goodison with their money and fickle support? What would be bad about that? We?re struggling to fill the ground for home games as it is. As for the glory hunting, well I?d take all the glory hunters if it meant that we?d had a bit of glory lately.
James Morgan
38 Posted 26/10/2011 at 08:17:33
38 Posted 26/10/2011 at 08:17:33
Ed Fitzgerald
39 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:02:28
39 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:02:28
Paul
Your position on this is crazy; you keep making exceptions to your own rule. You say that it has to be the name of a city and when I point out the Arsenal actually isn?t the name of anywhere? You then side step it by saying by making an exception of all London clubs. I have noticed you have given the Aston Villa issue the swerve as well according to the Niklas theorem Birmingham City should get the major investment rather than a team named after a northern suburb of Birmingham? The reason Villa got the big investment is that they have been more successful. I could go on and talk about foreign clubs in major cities who don?t use their City place names Boca juniors, River Plate, Corinthians, Anderlecht, Lazio but it gets boring.
The problem is Paul a lack of success fundamentally caused by a lack of strategic leadership from the top over many years leading to a lack of investment.
Your position on this is crazy; you keep making exceptions to your own rule. You say that it has to be the name of a city and when I point out the Arsenal actually isn?t the name of anywhere? You then side step it by saying by making an exception of all London clubs. I have noticed you have given the Aston Villa issue the swerve as well according to the Niklas theorem Birmingham City should get the major investment rather than a team named after a northern suburb of Birmingham? The reason Villa got the big investment is that they have been more successful. I could go on and talk about foreign clubs in major cities who don?t use their City place names Boca juniors, River Plate, Corinthians, Anderlecht, Lazio but it gets boring.
The problem is Paul a lack of success fundamentally caused by a lack of strategic leadership from the top over many years leading to a lack of investment.
Ed Fitzgerald
40 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:02:58
40 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:02:58
Paul PS: Everton is not a surburb of Walton but a district in the City of Liverpool, that should keep you happy!
Dick Fearon
41 Posted 26/10/2011 at 08:17:03
41 Posted 26/10/2011 at 08:17:03
To believe the city is known by ordinary folk around the world for anything other than the RS and the Beatles would be kidding yourself.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I explain where in the world Everton actually is, members of football's sub culture are a slightly more cognisant and that is about it. I definitely oppose a complete re-badging of our name yet there must be some way of letting the world know who, what and where we are. The question of our identity is pertinent in that could have a small yet beneficial affect on our saleability.
Congratulations to Paul for for his courage in raising the issue in what he must have known would be a hostile environment.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I explain where in the world Everton actually is, members of football's sub culture are a slightly more cognisant and that is about it. I definitely oppose a complete re-badging of our name yet there must be some way of letting the world know who, what and where we are. The question of our identity is pertinent in that could have a small yet beneficial affect on our saleability.
Congratulations to Paul for for his courage in raising the issue in what he must have known would be a hostile environment.
Jon Ferguson
42 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:03:40
42 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:03:40
I try not to overly critisize anyone on this site; everyone is entitled to their opinion after all. However, this post is the most ridiculous post I?ve ever read.
City of Liverpool Fc ? WTF!!!!!!!!!
I was also down by the Albert Dock and Liverpool 1 that day. There were, as you say, a lot of Asian and Spanish looking people in Liverpool shirts, that?s fine, football is a global game. On our match days (in the sunshine) there are an equal number of blue shirts around. We have less out of towners, but I assure you we still bring in tourism for the city (I know a few German, New Zealand and Spanish blues).
Imagine if we had secured the King?s Dock. That entire area of the city would have been swarming with blues every other week. We would have had a better income (and no obstructed views) and could have pushed on.
It?s not our name that holds us back. It?s our situation!
You say the sentimentality argument ?doesn?t wash?, but it does. Would you change our badge? I love our badge and spent half my time at school and uni drawing it instead of paying attention. It helped cement Everton into my brain.
What do we represent? I don?t want to be Liverpool mark 2. If you do then they are right, we are living in their shadow. What we represent is:
First club to give our players winners medals
First club to play in blue and white
First club to go on a foreign tour
First club to have a purpose built stadium
First to publish a regular match day programme
First to have 1 ? 11 on our players backs
First to have a dug out
First to have under soil heating
First European Cup (Champions league) penalty shoot out winners
First club to 4000 top flight games
First to have a scoreboard
First to have a pod cast
First to be on a social networking site
This is what we stand for! This is what we need to shout about. Some (3) clubs have more trophies than us, but NONE have more history.
We don?t live in Liverpool?s shadow. We need to forge our future as Everton FC, proud of our past and ready for the future.
City of Liverpool Fc ? WTF!!!!!!!!!
I was also down by the Albert Dock and Liverpool 1 that day. There were, as you say, a lot of Asian and Spanish looking people in Liverpool shirts, that?s fine, football is a global game. On our match days (in the sunshine) there are an equal number of blue shirts around. We have less out of towners, but I assure you we still bring in tourism for the city (I know a few German, New Zealand and Spanish blues).
Imagine if we had secured the King?s Dock. That entire area of the city would have been swarming with blues every other week. We would have had a better income (and no obstructed views) and could have pushed on.
It?s not our name that holds us back. It?s our situation!
You say the sentimentality argument ?doesn?t wash?, but it does. Would you change our badge? I love our badge and spent half my time at school and uni drawing it instead of paying attention. It helped cement Everton into my brain.
What do we represent? I don?t want to be Liverpool mark 2. If you do then they are right, we are living in their shadow. What we represent is:
First club to give our players winners medals
First club to play in blue and white
First club to go on a foreign tour
First club to have a purpose built stadium
First to publish a regular match day programme
First to have 1 ? 11 on our players backs
First to have a dug out
First to have under soil heating
First European Cup (Champions league) penalty shoot out winners
First club to 4000 top flight games
First to have a scoreboard
First to have a pod cast
First to be on a social networking site
This is what we stand for! This is what we need to shout about. Some (3) clubs have more trophies than us, but NONE have more history.
We don?t live in Liverpool?s shadow. We need to forge our future as Everton FC, proud of our past and ready for the future.
Liam Reilly
43 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:32:07
43 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:32:07
Robbie #2
WTF. I'm irish and attend maybe a half dozen home games a season at considerable expense. Just because your a 'scouser' pal doesn't make you a better supporter.
WTF. I'm irish and attend maybe a half dozen home games a season at considerable expense. Just because your a 'scouser' pal doesn't make you a better supporter.
Trevor Mackie
44 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:45:10
44 Posted 26/10/2011 at 09:45:10
Paul
Problem with making it "worthwhile" for Bill is no-one knows what he wants.
From his history and BU interview I think he's mad as a march hare, certainly not someone you'd want to deal with if you had options.
I suspect that's part of his crazy thought process - the smaller the pool of prem clubs for sale - the higher the price.
He couldn't give a monkeys how mediocre we are as long as we're in the Prem his money's safe - this "right buyer" is a smokescreen.
Problem with making it "worthwhile" for Bill is no-one knows what he wants.
From his history and BU interview I think he's mad as a march hare, certainly not someone you'd want to deal with if you had options.
I suspect that's part of his crazy thought process - the smaller the pool of prem clubs for sale - the higher the price.
He couldn't give a monkeys how mediocre we are as long as we're in the Prem his money's safe - this "right buyer" is a smokescreen.
John Keating
45 Posted 26/10/2011 at 10:02:24
45 Posted 26/10/2011 at 10:02:24
Liam (30) has a great point.
I was born and brought up in Everton but there are thousand of more passionate and knowledgeable fans than me that were born and come from outside the City.
I admire the fantastic supporters we have who, forewhatever reason, have never been to Goodison, to see the team live. In years gone by they only had newspaper reports or the wireless, now the internet. These are really true blues.
These are real supporters who follow us in good times and bad - mainly bad !
If Man City do rule the roost for the next few years, big time, it'll be great to see how many " outside of Manchester " supporters stick with United.
If the RS don't qualify for the Champions League for a few years I wonder if the City will still be full of these arseholes from God knows where.
No one thing you can be 100% sure about is that every person from wherever in the world who supports Everton really is an equal " True Blue "
Sod the marketing.
Those who want to know where Everton come from already know. Those who don't know where Everton come from can piss off !
I was born and brought up in Everton but there are thousand of more passionate and knowledgeable fans than me that were born and come from outside the City.
I admire the fantastic supporters we have who, forewhatever reason, have never been to Goodison, to see the team live. In years gone by they only had newspaper reports or the wireless, now the internet. These are really true blues.
These are real supporters who follow us in good times and bad - mainly bad !
If Man City do rule the roost for the next few years, big time, it'll be great to see how many " outside of Manchester " supporters stick with United.
If the RS don't qualify for the Champions League for a few years I wonder if the City will still be full of these arseholes from God knows where.
No one thing you can be 100% sure about is that every person from wherever in the world who supports Everton really is an equal " True Blue "
Sod the marketing.
Those who want to know where Everton come from already know. Those who don't know where Everton come from can piss off !
Eric Myles
46 Posted 26/10/2011 at 10:26:14
46 Posted 26/10/2011 at 10:26:14
Paul, the City of Liverpool is known around the world as the "Home of the Beatles."
We'd be better off re-branding ourselves as Beatles FC.
We'd be better off re-branding ourselves as Beatles FC.
Stephen Kenny
47 Posted 26/10/2011 at 10:34:25
47 Posted 26/10/2011 at 10:34:25
People follow clubs because of success, thats why the two biggest clubs are the two most successful. The only other reason being that club having a player they admire a la big nev, kev the rat upping our welsh contingent.
People aren't going to run out buying kits in malaysia, china, korea or anywhere else just because they realise where were from! Liverpool.
People aren't going to run out buying kits in malaysia, china, korea or anywhere else just because they realise where were from! Liverpool.
Liam Reilly
48 Posted 26/10/2011 at 13:28:48
48 Posted 26/10/2011 at 13:28:48
John #32
Couldn?t agree more and far more eloquently put than myself.
Cheers
As regards the name change, take away the name or the location of the club and you part with its soul.
Couldn?t agree more and far more eloquently put than myself.
Cheers
As regards the name change, take away the name or the location of the club and you part with its soul.
James Lauwervine
49 Posted 26/10/2011 at 13:19:05
49 Posted 26/10/2011 at 13:19:05
Paul, I congratulate you on bringing up something that has deflected the comment thread (mostly) away from the usual stuff. However, I firmly believe that the name of a football club is totally irrelevant to its success or stature. Indeed this goes for any brand name though no doubt there are examples people could throw at me. IMO The Beatles is a cheap pun and a crap name!
One more thing, 'Everton' is a bloody great name by any standards!
One more thing, 'Everton' is a bloody great name by any standards!
Chris Butler
50 Posted 26/10/2011 at 15:15:51
50 Posted 26/10/2011 at 15:15:51
I agree to be honest Liverpool FC do dominate the city. Our name doesn't give any clue to the fact we play in Liverpool. We do have no identity Newcastle have one, Sunderland have one, City have one and Spurs have one.
Moyes has further prevented many people knowing about us by playing the most boring football that's ever been known to man.
Moyes has further prevented many people knowing about us by playing the most boring football that's ever been known to man.
Mike Bates
51 Posted 26/10/2011 at 15:38:18
51 Posted 26/10/2011 at 15:38:18
Paul, are you high?
"I wonder what Evertonians would do if we did get a Mansour or an Abramovic and Day One they changed the club's name?" ...
You mean like those two examples did at Man City and Chelsea? Bizarre.
"I wonder what Evertonians would do if we did get a Mansour or an Abramovic and Day One they changed the club's name?" ...
You mean like those two examples did at Man City and Chelsea? Bizarre.
Trevor Mackie
52 Posted 26/10/2011 at 15:38:24
52 Posted 26/10/2011 at 15:38:24
Wonder how many people know what city Juventus represent?
Kevin Tully
53 Posted 26/10/2011 at 15:39:04
53 Posted 26/10/2011 at 15:39:04
We are marketed overseas every week for free. By Sky.
We are kicking off at 12:00 this Saturday, the game will be all over TV in Asia.
The fact our board can't be arsed taking advantage of free publicity is down to them alone.
We have a monopoly of 20 clubs, how hard can it be?
We are kicking off at 12:00 this Saturday, the game will be all over TV in Asia.
The fact our board can't be arsed taking advantage of free publicity is down to them alone.
We have a monopoly of 20 clubs, how hard can it be?
Kevin Hudson
54 Posted 26/10/2011 at 17:02:09
54 Posted 26/10/2011 at 17:02:09
Paul,
If you're serious about this, wouldn't it be a great idea to conduct some all-important market-research into the "City Of Liverpool FC," name - in the Gwaldy's Street at half-time?
I'm sure the genial patrons nursing their Chang's would give great feed-back as to whether they would prefer to chant either "City,City,City" or "We love you Liverpool, we do.."
If you're serious about this, wouldn't it be a great idea to conduct some all-important market-research into the "City Of Liverpool FC," name - in the Gwaldy's Street at half-time?
I'm sure the genial patrons nursing their Chang's would give great feed-back as to whether they would prefer to chant either "City,City,City" or "We love you Liverpool, we do.."
Eric Myles
55 Posted 27/10/2011 at 08:11:50
55 Posted 27/10/2011 at 08:11:50
"Our name doesn't give any clue to the fact we play in Liverpool. We do have no identity Newcastle have one, Sunderland have one, City have one and Spurs have one."
How can Spurs have an identity when they're not named after a city? Or QPR? WBA? Aston Villa? Chelsea? Arsenal? Fulham?
That's one third of the current league.
How can Spurs have an identity when they're not named after a city? Or QPR? WBA? Aston Villa? Chelsea? Arsenal? Fulham?
That's one third of the current league.
Alan Williams
56 Posted 27/10/2011 at 07:59:13
56 Posted 27/10/2011 at 07:59:13
Jon 29, you really made me smile about drawing the club badge I have the same illness either OCD or turrets? When I was in primary school we had to do massive painting that was going on display in the City and we all had parts to do so like a dog marking his territory I covered in my area in the club badge with a big Everton Fc under it and my teacher was so angry he took me off the project! In secondary school I had to back all my books with wallpaper as the amount of EFC badges and Everton FC just wasn?t appreciated, crazy teachers as I went to Alsop and could see GP from my classroom and I just looked at it with every opportunity. When our school team got to a city final it was held at Anfield and I had an EFC tracksuit over my kit along with two other EFC tops and was made to take it off when we had pictures at the this is Anfield sign I refused to take them off and even refused to acknowledge the sign I was 10!! I?m 41 now and I?m lucky enough to have an excellent job that allows me to travel the world, I have just returned from NZ and Hong Kong and in all the hotels I always drew the crest on the mirror when I got out of the shower, I still have that illness!! If we changed our name and badge then it would cure my illness but I?m proud of what I am and what we stand for even though times not great and we are skint but EVERTON is just what we are, it?s simple! COYB
Andrew Clare
57 Posted 27/10/2011 at 09:00:25
57 Posted 27/10/2011 at 09:00:25
In the words of JM.
'YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!'
Also I would like to add that thinking like this is why our great club is in this awful situation.
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum!
'YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!'
Also I would like to add that thinking like this is why our great club is in this awful situation.
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum!
Dick Fearon
58 Posted 27/10/2011 at 08:54:06
58 Posted 27/10/2011 at 08:54:06
Paul, it seems your valiant attempt at generating fresh ideas has garnered the usual mix of apathy and virulence that pervades this site.
You have recieved heaps of cynicism yet not a single positive suggestion.
You have recieved heaps of cynicism yet not a single positive suggestion.
Trevor Mackie
59 Posted 27/10/2011 at 09:52:16
59 Posted 27/10/2011 at 09:52:16
Dick
This idea is akin to sticking feathers all over your arms and flapping away confidently expecting flight.
We need a balloon.......
kenwright or moyes?????
Scandalous....... they're gods.
This idea is akin to sticking feathers all over your arms and flapping away confidently expecting flight.
We need a balloon.......
kenwright or moyes?????
Scandalous....... they're gods.
Kevin Hudson
60 Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:40:30
60 Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:40:30
Dick,
Stop pretending you're more open-minded & evolved than the rest of us. If Paul had simply asked for ideas as to how to improve our "brand," then he may not have been met by "virulent cynicism."
His appalling suggestion was that we changed our name to include the word: "Liverpool." There is not a single Evertonian, him excluded, who thinks that idea is workable. He has rightly been derided for it.
I do not have any therories as to how to improve the club's image, as I know nothing about marketing & kinda adopt the Bill Hicks view of folk who do.
But essentially - you're no better than anyone of us; We criticised him - so you criticised us. Nor did YOU offer a "single positive suggestion," as you TOO just decided to ridicule..
Stop pretending you're more open-minded & evolved than the rest of us. If Paul had simply asked for ideas as to how to improve our "brand," then he may not have been met by "virulent cynicism."
His appalling suggestion was that we changed our name to include the word: "Liverpool." There is not a single Evertonian, him excluded, who thinks that idea is workable. He has rightly been derided for it.
I do not have any therories as to how to improve the club's image, as I know nothing about marketing & kinda adopt the Bill Hicks view of folk who do.
But essentially - you're no better than anyone of us; We criticised him - so you criticised us. Nor did YOU offer a "single positive suggestion," as you TOO just decided to ridicule..
Dick Fearon
61 Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:19:27
61 Posted 27/10/2011 at 11:19:27
Trevor # 46,
Notwithstanding your nonsense about feathers etc how about those many and wonderful yet equally nonsensical suggestions about ?what this club should be doing? as an alternative to destination Kirkby.
As the song goes, ?It was all so simple then?
Into the mist of time has gone our new stadium in Walton or was it Speke or maybe Switch Island any one of a dozen other places including KEIOCs proposal of Birkenhead, fer Christ sake!
Also missing is that wonderful and detailed plan of a total reconstruct of the old lady.
None of those things were financially viable yet they served the purpose of diverting supporters away from the only practicable solution that was on the table. In circumstances that prevailed at the time of that great debate all alternatives to DK were as nonsensical as anything levelled at Paul.
Notwithstanding your nonsense about feathers etc how about those many and wonderful yet equally nonsensical suggestions about ?what this club should be doing? as an alternative to destination Kirkby.
As the song goes, ?It was all so simple then?
Into the mist of time has gone our new stadium in Walton or was it Speke or maybe Switch Island any one of a dozen other places including KEIOCs proposal of Birkenhead, fer Christ sake!
Also missing is that wonderful and detailed plan of a total reconstruct of the old lady.
None of those things were financially viable yet they served the purpose of diverting supporters away from the only practicable solution that was on the table. In circumstances that prevailed at the time of that great debate all alternatives to DK were as nonsensical as anything levelled at Paul.
Rob Hollis
62 Posted 27/10/2011 at 14:02:44
62 Posted 27/10/2011 at 14:02:44
Paul
|The City of Liverpool has an international identity as:-
Home of the Beatles
Home of LFC
A major port
Neither The Beatles or LFC gained the reputation because of where they were from, they gained it through being very succesful.
Everton have never won the European Cup/Champions League and have one small european success to show from their entire history.
An international reputation is built from winning in Europe or winning in the Prem which has an international reputation.
Until Everton win things that are noticed by an international audience then they will not have an international reputation.
Apart from the absurdity of the whole idea, hanging on to the reputation of the city would not be a good thing in the eyes of many outsiders. Being very good at what you do would.
|The City of Liverpool has an international identity as:-
Home of the Beatles
Home of LFC
A major port
Neither The Beatles or LFC gained the reputation because of where they were from, they gained it through being very succesful.
Everton have never won the European Cup/Champions League and have one small european success to show from their entire history.
An international reputation is built from winning in Europe or winning in the Prem which has an international reputation.
Until Everton win things that are noticed by an international audience then they will not have an international reputation.
Apart from the absurdity of the whole idea, hanging on to the reputation of the city would not be a good thing in the eyes of many outsiders. Being very good at what you do would.
Rob Hollis
63 Posted 27/10/2011 at 14:09:16
63 Posted 27/10/2011 at 14:09:16
repetition of reputation. See me!
Trevor Mackie
64 Posted 27/10/2011 at 18:43:24
64 Posted 27/10/2011 at 18:43:24
Dick
I read it a few times, it seems your point is because some shit ideas were floated in the past we should keep producing shit ideas?
Have I missed something here - a shit idea is a shit idea.
I read it a few times, it seems your point is because some shit ideas were floated in the past we should keep producing shit ideas?
Have I missed something here - a shit idea is a shit idea.
Paul Niklas
65 Posted 27/10/2011 at 19:48:01
65 Posted 27/10/2011 at 19:48:01
Ok, I got what I expected to be frank; I cannot for the life of me make up my mind if ToffeeWeb is representative of the majority of support or indeed I could not until now.
On the face of it, most supporters I meet are supportive, philosophical, pragmatic and in the main just good supporters; however, on this site it seems the majority live up to the bitter tag we have been given.
I expected nothing else than I got and thank you to James and Dick for at least seeing the article for what it was.
Does anyone really think I want that change? I do not... but the facts of the matter are we need some change to attract investors, indeed the name could be anything for me if it achieved the desired result I would even call us "The sons of the Karan" ? a few million muslims and a Rich Arab to boot would do nicely thank you.
At the moment, there is no attraction to buying our club: I really do believe there is no identity, no message that stimulates interest... I do not believe for one minute that a write-off of the current debt would make any difference in this climate to any investor; we simply do not have the capacity for growth and, in my opinion, a new stadium would be of no financial benefit as the extra seats (if we could fill them?) would hardly pay the interest on the cost to build it.
Jon Ferguson ? do you really think that list of ridiculous historical points would be attractive to anyone? It actually bored me.
The bottom line and it was a challenge to my fellow supporters to come up with something different than the usual:?
Sell the club
Sack the board
Sack Moyes
Peter Johnson's fault.
Peter Johnson was a red
Philip Green???
Robert Earl???
Lord Grantchester ? because he is a supporter, he should invest his mother's millions????
Kings Dock
Kirkby ? Argghhhh!!!
I could go on; all I want is fresh ideas, silly, ludicrous, mad... even disloyal ? as long as they are out in the open ? you never know, someone might be reading all this.
Please do not say to me that it's the board's job to do because that should be in the list above also.
I stated before that I admire the Blue Union but not their strategy or tactics and, to be frank, we all sit here today with what we knew already despite their efforts.
So, if you want to continue to give me a hard time, then feel free... but think for one minute that, it achieves nothing, come up with alternatives or something that for God's sake is not just the usual shite!!!!
On the face of it, most supporters I meet are supportive, philosophical, pragmatic and in the main just good supporters; however, on this site it seems the majority live up to the bitter tag we have been given.
I expected nothing else than I got and thank you to James and Dick for at least seeing the article for what it was.
Does anyone really think I want that change? I do not... but the facts of the matter are we need some change to attract investors, indeed the name could be anything for me if it achieved the desired result I would even call us "The sons of the Karan" ? a few million muslims and a Rich Arab to boot would do nicely thank you.
At the moment, there is no attraction to buying our club: I really do believe there is no identity, no message that stimulates interest... I do not believe for one minute that a write-off of the current debt would make any difference in this climate to any investor; we simply do not have the capacity for growth and, in my opinion, a new stadium would be of no financial benefit as the extra seats (if we could fill them?) would hardly pay the interest on the cost to build it.
Jon Ferguson ? do you really think that list of ridiculous historical points would be attractive to anyone? It actually bored me.
The bottom line and it was a challenge to my fellow supporters to come up with something different than the usual:?
Sell the club
Sack the board
Sack Moyes
Peter Johnson's fault.
Peter Johnson was a red
Philip Green???
Robert Earl???
Lord Grantchester ? because he is a supporter, he should invest his mother's millions????
Kings Dock
Kirkby ? Argghhhh!!!
I could go on; all I want is fresh ideas, silly, ludicrous, mad... even disloyal ? as long as they are out in the open ? you never know, someone might be reading all this.
Please do not say to me that it's the board's job to do because that should be in the list above also.
I stated before that I admire the Blue Union but not their strategy or tactics and, to be frank, we all sit here today with what we knew already despite their efforts.
So, if you want to continue to give me a hard time, then feel free... but think for one minute that, it achieves nothing, come up with alternatives or something that for God's sake is not just the usual shite!!!!
Ed Fitzgerald
66 Posted 27/10/2011 at 20:58:29
66 Posted 27/10/2011 at 20:58:29
Paul
You got what you deserved to be honest. There are many bright and articulate people who post on ToffeeWeb; to portray the majority as bitter because they dont agree with your idea is more than a little unfair.
People such as Trevor Skempton had really interesting ideas about how to redevelop Goodison during the Kirkby fiasco... Did the club listen? Did they bollocks.
Anyhow, Paul my simple idea is for us to play two forwards when we play at home and if possible play with a little width rather than ram the centre of midfield with defensive players. I actually think that is a marketing strategy as I think we should try and win games from the off and if we did more people might want to watch us.
You got what you deserved to be honest. There are many bright and articulate people who post on ToffeeWeb; to portray the majority as bitter because they dont agree with your idea is more than a little unfair.
People such as Trevor Skempton had really interesting ideas about how to redevelop Goodison during the Kirkby fiasco... Did the club listen? Did they bollocks.
Anyhow, Paul my simple idea is for us to play two forwards when we play at home and if possible play with a little width rather than ram the centre of midfield with defensive players. I actually think that is a marketing strategy as I think we should try and win games from the off and if we did more people might want to watch us.
Michael Bates
67 Posted 27/10/2011 at 21:04:03
67 Posted 27/10/2011 at 21:04:03
Paul, there is no attraction to buying our club. Agreed. Why is that? Because we are unfashionable. Why is that? Because we don't win things. Not because of our name.
Here's some more fresh ideas for you, seeing as you've asked for them. But keeping with what you'd like, be prepared for the silly, ludicrous, mad ... and even disloyal!
1. Wear Red
2. Wear letters instead of numbers.
3. Only sign people called Michael Bates.
4. Knock down Goodison and play at The Shankly Fields.
5. Play in bare feet.
6. Get Howard Kendall back.
7. Change the badge to a Liverbird sat on Rupert's Tower.
8. Give up and support the shite.
Here's some more fresh ideas for you, seeing as you've asked for them. But keeping with what you'd like, be prepared for the silly, ludicrous, mad ... and even disloyal!
1. Wear Red
2. Wear letters instead of numbers.
3. Only sign people called Michael Bates.
4. Knock down Goodison and play at The Shankly Fields.
5. Play in bare feet.
6. Get Howard Kendall back.
7. Change the badge to a Liverbird sat on Rupert's Tower.
8. Give up and support the shite.
Ciarán McGlone
68 Posted 27/10/2011 at 21:17:01
68 Posted 27/10/2011 at 21:17:01
What a wholly bizarre article. On the one hand, you crave maximising our revenue ? so much that you advocate changing the name of the club!
Yet, on the other hand, you openly despise the attraction of more supporters ? the very thing which creates more wealth.
Thoroughly silly stuff.
Yet, on the other hand, you openly despise the attraction of more supporters ? the very thing which creates more wealth.
Thoroughly silly stuff.
Rob Hollis
69 Posted 27/10/2011 at 23:20:33
69 Posted 27/10/2011 at 23:20:33
Best idea of the lot Ed Fitzgerald. Radical but good.
Tom Hughes
70 Posted 27/10/2011 at 23:25:42
70 Posted 27/10/2011 at 23:25:42
Dick,
You should at least get your facts straight before you spout about nonsense.
KEIOC never suggested Birkenhead or Speke or Switch Island as an alternative for DK.
They simply argued the case against an out of town stadium in a location that could not support it, and had the support of several experts. In the process they revealed the multiple lies that were used to give it credibility, or have you conveniently forgotten them? From day one KEIOC told the fans and the club that DK was not viable in terms of planning, public-transport or finance.... not to mention desirability in terms of other issues such as loss of identity. For each and every aspect of this they were fully vindicated. In otherwords the "only practicable solution" as you put it was a complete non-starter, undeliverable and the least desirable of all options, to the point of never being an option at all. Even the club now accept this, and couldn't drop it quickly enough after the inquiry!! As far as practability goes..... where does Kings Dock come in your grand scheme of failures and blame for everyone except BK?
As far as the plans to redevelop GP.... they are as valid now as they were then.... if you want a current example by way of comparison, I suggest you look at what Wolves are now doing at Molineux..... If you do, you'll see that getting GP upto 50k+ capacity could indeed be cheaper than what was on offer with Destination Kirkby, and would be superior in several ways.... not least in terms stadium design, public transport, continuity and preservation of identity and heritage. It can also be done in affordable phases..... hence the reason why the vast majority of clubs have redeveloped instead of relocated. There are several other examples of similar schemes that show that if the club had really studied all the options then GP would have been fully redeveloped long ago..... but you probably don't want to know that!
You should at least get your facts straight before you spout about nonsense.
KEIOC never suggested Birkenhead or Speke or Switch Island as an alternative for DK.
They simply argued the case against an out of town stadium in a location that could not support it, and had the support of several experts. In the process they revealed the multiple lies that were used to give it credibility, or have you conveniently forgotten them? From day one KEIOC told the fans and the club that DK was not viable in terms of planning, public-transport or finance.... not to mention desirability in terms of other issues such as loss of identity. For each and every aspect of this they were fully vindicated. In otherwords the "only practicable solution" as you put it was a complete non-starter, undeliverable and the least desirable of all options, to the point of never being an option at all. Even the club now accept this, and couldn't drop it quickly enough after the inquiry!! As far as practability goes..... where does Kings Dock come in your grand scheme of failures and blame for everyone except BK?
As far as the plans to redevelop GP.... they are as valid now as they were then.... if you want a current example by way of comparison, I suggest you look at what Wolves are now doing at Molineux..... If you do, you'll see that getting GP upto 50k+ capacity could indeed be cheaper than what was on offer with Destination Kirkby, and would be superior in several ways.... not least in terms stadium design, public transport, continuity and preservation of identity and heritage. It can also be done in affordable phases..... hence the reason why the vast majority of clubs have redeveloped instead of relocated. There are several other examples of similar schemes that show that if the club had really studied all the options then GP would have been fully redeveloped long ago..... but you probably don't want to know that!
Gary Hughes
71 Posted 28/10/2011 at 00:46:53
71 Posted 28/10/2011 at 00:46:53
I'm still trying to work out why anyone has even responded to this shite.
Fucking Idiot.
Fucking Idiot.
Paul Niklas
72 Posted 28/10/2011 at 07:24:45
72 Posted 28/10/2011 at 07:24:45
Gary Hughes ? no doubt one of the minority, who offer nothing but bile and bitterness because they can't get their own way.
Have you anything beyond a few syllables to say, probably just some new swear words?
Have you anything beyond a few syllables to say, probably just some new swear words?
Tom Hughes
73 Posted 28/10/2011 at 07:28:57
73 Posted 28/10/2011 at 07:28:57
Paul....... I honestly thought your initial post was a wind up.
Everton FC have a strong brand derived over 120 years predominantly spent in the top flight of the world's first and richest league. More clubs around the world are named after us than any other. People who are interested in footy know who we are.
Are we a bigger brand than LFC........? No, of course not, nor are any other British club with the exception of Man Utd. They are still the most successful club in England and as a result their fanbase is multiple of ours. That doesn't mean we should try to tag onto their name, diluting the strong and fiercely independent and rich identity built up over generations. This has its own value and cannot readily be replaced by a simple rebranding exercise.
Only success can truly increase awareness and fanbase; even if you renamed us Brazil and rebuilt our academy in Rio, you would not guarantee the outcome you're after, nor necessarily add any more value in terms of brand.
The campaign to reclaim the liver bird was a more subtle attempt to enhance our identity and at least has historical merit.... but this wasn't to the detriment of our already significant brand.
It should be noted that while LFC have benefited by association with our city in some respects, they were still the smaller club with the smaller fanbase for the majority of their history..... and as already stated the Brum/villa example alone completely disproves the theory.... as do so many others.
As far as misguided minorities are concerned, I think if you put it to a vote you would be very lucky to get even 1% agreement.
Everton FC have a strong brand derived over 120 years predominantly spent in the top flight of the world's first and richest league. More clubs around the world are named after us than any other. People who are interested in footy know who we are.
Are we a bigger brand than LFC........? No, of course not, nor are any other British club with the exception of Man Utd. They are still the most successful club in England and as a result their fanbase is multiple of ours. That doesn't mean we should try to tag onto their name, diluting the strong and fiercely independent and rich identity built up over generations. This has its own value and cannot readily be replaced by a simple rebranding exercise.
Only success can truly increase awareness and fanbase; even if you renamed us Brazil and rebuilt our academy in Rio, you would not guarantee the outcome you're after, nor necessarily add any more value in terms of brand.
The campaign to reclaim the liver bird was a more subtle attempt to enhance our identity and at least has historical merit.... but this wasn't to the detriment of our already significant brand.
It should be noted that while LFC have benefited by association with our city in some respects, they were still the smaller club with the smaller fanbase for the majority of their history..... and as already stated the Brum/villa example alone completely disproves the theory.... as do so many others.
As far as misguided minorities are concerned, I think if you put it to a vote you would be very lucky to get even 1% agreement.
Dick Fearon
74 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:06:35
74 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:06:35
Tom, before MK brings the curtain down, I will squeeze in this, my final message on this particular topic.
One of the protagonists did suggest Birkenhead, if it was not from a member of KEIOC I stand humbly corrected.
If I say that of those permitted to vote a clear majority endorsed DK. The voting procedure and pre poll information may not have been to the satisfaction of all yet it was and still is, the largest and most widespread of any poll on the matter.
Unlike some I do not presume that KEIOC or its BU offspring represent a majority of Evertonians. TW itself would not claim that for itself.
Apart from KEIOC plus a small yet vociferous group of activists, the club was battling against an army of self-interest groups ranging from local and Kirkby traders to city and regional councils plus national and international chain conglomerates that were fearful of losing business. Not one of those protesters gave a rats arse for the future of Everton FC.
I reiterate, it is a nonsensical fantasy more suited to La-La Land to propose anything that costing multiple millions when we are even more skint than a couple of years ago. Where have we made the slightest progress on a single one of those wonderful suggestions made as alternatives to DK?
In my opinion our longed for dream of a billionaire buy-out faded when Kirkby hit the wall.
Amen
One of the protagonists did suggest Birkenhead, if it was not from a member of KEIOC I stand humbly corrected.
If I say that of those permitted to vote a clear majority endorsed DK. The voting procedure and pre poll information may not have been to the satisfaction of all yet it was and still is, the largest and most widespread of any poll on the matter.
Unlike some I do not presume that KEIOC or its BU offspring represent a majority of Evertonians. TW itself would not claim that for itself.
Apart from KEIOC plus a small yet vociferous group of activists, the club was battling against an army of self-interest groups ranging from local and Kirkby traders to city and regional councils plus national and international chain conglomerates that were fearful of losing business. Not one of those protesters gave a rats arse for the future of Everton FC.
I reiterate, it is a nonsensical fantasy more suited to La-La Land to propose anything that costing multiple millions when we are even more skint than a couple of years ago. Where have we made the slightest progress on a single one of those wonderful suggestions made as alternatives to DK?
In my opinion our longed for dream of a billionaire buy-out faded when Kirkby hit the wall.
Amen
Eric Myles
75 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:23:48
75 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:23:48
"Where have we made the slightest progress on a single one of those wonderful suggestions made as alternatives to DK?"
The board are not interested in the alternatives Dick, they never were. Which is why they never looked at them and made up reasons why they were 'undeliverable' and pushed on with the biggest UNDELIVERABLE scheme of all in Desperation Kirkby.
The board are not interested in the alternatives Dick, they never were. Which is why they never looked at them and made up reasons why they were 'undeliverable' and pushed on with the biggest UNDELIVERABLE scheme of all in Desperation Kirkby.
Chris Taggart
76 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:22:53
76 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:22:53
Can we change our name to Greater Merseyside Region FC?
Or how about The club that Paul McCartney's Dad supported FC ? that could give us a greater profile.
Sorry mate, marketing Everton is a hard task but it would be made even harder with a name change.
What's our name?
Or how about The club that Paul McCartney's Dad supported FC ? that could give us a greater profile.
Sorry mate, marketing Everton is a hard task but it would be made even harder with a name change.
What's our name?
Tom Hughes
77 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:24:31
77 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:24:31
Dick.... once again, you miss all the pertinent points. KEIOC never promoted Birkenhead as an alternative to DK..... feel free to prove me wrong.
Secondly, KEIOC simply showed that DK was never a real option! Hence the reason why the club dropped this white elephant at the first opportunity.
The vote was a bogus loaded ballot which only the most blinkered would now deny. A similar vote now that all the supporting lies have been exposed would never yield the same result.
KEIOC with only a few weeks to get organised, and working against the might of Tesco, EFC and Knowsley Council and the media, almost pipped them at the vote and rendered the DK vote easily the smallest Yes vote of the three ballots to date (and that was despite the non-existence of an alternative in the ballot literature).....
I'd suggest la-la land is one where they believe this board will deliver anything and perhaps that's where your misplaced angst should be aimed. In terms of ground developments, Wolves achieved more than us in the lower leagues than we have while in the richest league on the planet. There are multiple other clubs who have done similar.... how many examples do you need before you realise this and stop blaming others for our clubs failings?
They have had numerous optiopns and missed them all.... to the point that we are now on arses..... please wake up. Amen indeed!
Secondly, KEIOC simply showed that DK was never a real option! Hence the reason why the club dropped this white elephant at the first opportunity.
The vote was a bogus loaded ballot which only the most blinkered would now deny. A similar vote now that all the supporting lies have been exposed would never yield the same result.
KEIOC with only a few weeks to get organised, and working against the might of Tesco, EFC and Knowsley Council and the media, almost pipped them at the vote and rendered the DK vote easily the smallest Yes vote of the three ballots to date (and that was despite the non-existence of an alternative in the ballot literature).....
I'd suggest la-la land is one where they believe this board will deliver anything and perhaps that's where your misplaced angst should be aimed. In terms of ground developments, Wolves achieved more than us in the lower leagues than we have while in the richest league on the planet. There are multiple other clubs who have done similar.... how many examples do you need before you realise this and stop blaming others for our clubs failings?
They have had numerous optiopns and missed them all.... to the point that we are now on arses..... please wake up. Amen indeed!
Gavin Ramejkis
78 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:41:12
78 Posted 28/10/2011 at 08:41:12
Dick, to use your own reasoning, the whole debacle of Desperation Kirkby was at the behest of Tesco, our silent non board member and a council who also didn't give a flying fuck about Everton and had only their own interests in mind.
Alternatives were not given a second's thought hence when the plan rightly backfired BK's lack of plan B became so acutely clear, it was an all or nothing folly costing the club more millions on another failed ground move on his clock. Not one of the alternatives to DK were given a moments thought by the board and have been since, their choice, their fault.
Alternatives were not given a second's thought hence when the plan rightly backfired BK's lack of plan B became so acutely clear, it was an all or nothing folly costing the club more millions on another failed ground move on his clock. Not one of the alternatives to DK were given a moments thought by the board and have been since, their choice, their fault.
Martin Mason
79 Posted 28/10/2011 at 12:17:49
79 Posted 28/10/2011 at 12:17:49
I for one agree with many of your points, Paul. Liverpool are a brand and that's why they have higher income than Everton who are tiny in comparison as a brand. Many companies have changed their fortunes by renaming and rebranding so why not Everton? It's a far better better idea than many that I've seen from many on here.
One point I'll disagree with is that EFC isn't just the property of Liverpool and scousers, there is a massive diaspora of Evertonians around the UK who spend a lot of money watching the Blues who aren't scousers. The difference between us and many out-of-town Koppites is that we aren't success tourists and have supported Everton through some dreadful periods.
Whilst my parents were scousers, I'm not... and I and thousands of others like me are in no way lesser than supporters from the City. In fact, I'd bet there are far more travellers than city dwellers who go to our games. I'd guess though that there are far more city dwellers who are dragging the name of the club through the mud as you say. They are by definition anti-supporters.
One point I'll disagree with is that EFC isn't just the property of Liverpool and scousers, there is a massive diaspora of Evertonians around the UK who spend a lot of money watching the Blues who aren't scousers. The difference between us and many out-of-town Koppites is that we aren't success tourists and have supported Everton through some dreadful periods.
Whilst my parents were scousers, I'm not... and I and thousands of others like me are in no way lesser than supporters from the City. In fact, I'd bet there are far more travellers than city dwellers who go to our games. I'd guess though that there are far more city dwellers who are dragging the name of the club through the mud as you say. They are by definition anti-supporters.
Phil Bellis
80 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:01:34
80 Posted 28/10/2011 at 13:01:34
Martin
"...I'd bet there are far more travellers than city dwellers who go to our games..."
How much? And justify "far more city dwellers who are dragging the name of the club through the mud" ? What are you on about?
"...I'd bet there are far more travellers than city dwellers who go to our games..."
How much? And justify "far more city dwellers who are dragging the name of the club through the mud" ? What are you on about?
Martin Mason
81 Posted 28/10/2011 at 14:15:09
81 Posted 28/10/2011 at 14:15:09
Phil, I bet you ten billion pounds!!
Actually you only need to see the volume of traffic coming into the City on matchdays to see how many travelling fans there are.
The BU meeting was held in Liverpool and was attended by City dwellers so obviously the movement is mainly driven by City dwellers. Everton and Liverpool are City clubs only on the basis of the physical location of the ground. The true soul of Everton is all over the country not only in Liverpool. That's why I feel that the location of the ground isn't an issue, OK Kirkby wasn't a good idea maybe but if we could benefit from relocation then we should go for it even if it isn't in Liverpool. I'd suggest perhaps a groundshare with Southport or Tranmere?
Actually you only need to see the volume of traffic coming into the City on matchdays to see how many travelling fans there are.
The BU meeting was held in Liverpool and was attended by City dwellers so obviously the movement is mainly driven by City dwellers. Everton and Liverpool are City clubs only on the basis of the physical location of the ground. The true soul of Everton is all over the country not only in Liverpool. That's why I feel that the location of the ground isn't an issue, OK Kirkby wasn't a good idea maybe but if we could benefit from relocation then we should go for it even if it isn't in Liverpool. I'd suggest perhaps a groundshare with Southport or Tranmere?
Paul Lally
82 Posted 28/10/2011 at 14:11:33
82 Posted 28/10/2011 at 14:11:33
Martin Mason 66#
'I'd guess though that there are far more city dwellers -------------------- who are dragging the name of the club through the mud as you say. They are by definition anti-supporters.'
You spout this shite on nearly every thread.
The Blue Union are not anti supporters and are definitely not dragging our club through any mud.
Just how many more times do their aims have to be explained to you ?
COYB
'I'd guess though that there are far more city dwellers -------------------- who are dragging the name of the club through the mud as you say. They are by definition anti-supporters.'
You spout this shite on nearly every thread.
The Blue Union are not anti supporters and are definitely not dragging our club through any mud.
Just how many more times do their aims have to be explained to you ?
COYB
Phil Bellis
83 Posted 28/10/2011 at 15:14:34
83 Posted 28/10/2011 at 15:14:34
Your usual hyperbole there, Martin; just hand over a tenner, thanks
How would you know about the traffic every matchday, Martin? Do you get to most games? And, of course, you'll see traffic - some people in Liverpool can drive and we don't all get the bus/train or walk to Goodison
May I refer the learned gentleman to the evidence presented at the Kirkby Fiasco re season ticket holders' postcodes, "Miscellaneous Documents Submitted to the Inquiry"
One presumes the pay-on-the-day attendess reflect the predominence of L postcodes over CH, WA, PE and WN; I rest my case, your honour
The true heart of Everton is in our family and our shared history but we are a Liverpool team; I've no problem at all with that even though I recall being skitted for being a Blue and coming from the South End (L8) "Everton are a North End club" I was told
I only wish the numpties running our club would advertise our presence more, particularly at JLA and Lime Street, instead of wasting money trying to mve us to the banks of the Alt (rhyme THAT with jersey!)
How would you know about the traffic every matchday, Martin? Do you get to most games? And, of course, you'll see traffic - some people in Liverpool can drive and we don't all get the bus/train or walk to Goodison
May I refer the learned gentleman to the evidence presented at the Kirkby Fiasco re season ticket holders' postcodes, "Miscellaneous Documents Submitted to the Inquiry"
One presumes the pay-on-the-day attendess reflect the predominence of L postcodes over CH, WA, PE and WN; I rest my case, your honour
The true heart of Everton is in our family and our shared history but we are a Liverpool team; I've no problem at all with that even though I recall being skitted for being a Blue and coming from the South End (L8) "Everton are a North End club" I was told
I only wish the numpties running our club would advertise our presence more, particularly at JLA and Lime Street, instead of wasting money trying to mve us to the banks of the Alt (rhyme THAT with jersey!)
Gavin Ramejkis
84 Posted 28/10/2011 at 17:00:15
84 Posted 28/10/2011 at 17:00:15
Martin, I attended the first BU march, couldn't make the first meeting through family commitments and the second due to a car crash, but oddly enough I don't live in the City so your argument pretty much falls flat on its face.
Martin Mason
85 Posted 28/10/2011 at 19:43:17
85 Posted 28/10/2011 at 19:43:17
Phil, I was actually born in Liverpool but I escaped and my home area is/was in mid-Cheshire. A lot of Liverpudlians settled over that way because of jobs at ICI and Everton have hundreds of fans from just that area (my old man was a Liverpool supporter).
I live in Horsham now and have met many good Evertonians down in the south and I mean it, some are very good fans not bloody anti-supporters (Paul, calm down dear). I know about the traffic from out of town because I drove from Northwich via Widnes and Queens Drive and it was always chocker especially getting out of town. If you add to that the massive support we get from North Wales, the Wirral and other places we have a very large catchment area.
I live in Horsham now and have met many good Evertonians down in the south and I mean it, some are very good fans not bloody anti-supporters (Paul, calm down dear). I know about the traffic from out of town because I drove from Northwich via Widnes and Queens Drive and it was always chocker especially getting out of town. If you add to that the massive support we get from North Wales, the Wirral and other places we have a very large catchment area.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
86 Posted 28/10/2011 at 20:22:10
Editorial Team
86 Posted 28/10/2011 at 20:22:10
Martin:
I'll ask you nicely: please stop using this webspace to refer to your fellow Evertonians as "anti-supporters".
Thank you.
I'll ask you nicely: please stop using this webspace to refer to your fellow Evertonians as "anti-supporters".
Thank you.
Peter Hall
87 Posted 28/10/2011 at 20:31:50
87 Posted 28/10/2011 at 20:31:50
Michael,
That looks like a yellow card for Martin, and given the things said here about people like Moyes and Kenwright (regularly called 'a liar' here), it's refereeing of a standard we are used to.
If Martin thinks there are TW contributors who are happy when things are bad for the club, he may be wrong - or he may be right. It's hardly irrational or libellous. It's an opinion.
Are you going to silence him for speaking of 'anti-supporters' when far worse things are said quite well-respected people?
Back left pocket for the red one.
That looks like a yellow card for Martin, and given the things said here about people like Moyes and Kenwright (regularly called 'a liar' here), it's refereeing of a standard we are used to.
If Martin thinks there are TW contributors who are happy when things are bad for the club, he may be wrong - or he may be right. It's hardly irrational or libellous. It's an opinion.
Are you going to silence him for speaking of 'anti-supporters' when far worse things are said quite well-respected people?
Back left pocket for the red one.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
88 Posted 28/10/2011 at 21:01:50
Editorial Team
88 Posted 28/10/2011 at 21:01:50
Peter,
There is no excuse for calling fellow Evertonians "anti-supporters", whatever his opinions might be. It's the kind of inter-fan behaviour we abhor (as is calling fellow Evertonians "kopites" or suggesting they go and support Liverpool). We have always had zero tolerance for such attitudes.
Now... you really want to conflate that with Bill Kenwright being called a liar? Have you noticed perhaps that he actually lies? That's why Evertonians call him a liar. If he didn't lie, perhaps you might have a point... but you don't.
As for the manager, David Moyes is a natural focal point for the full range of fans' emotions, most of which is part & parcel. I don't think it gets too far out of hand but if you have some specific examples in mind, you're welcome to hit the "Report Abuse" link and draw it to our attention. I really don't think he needs me protecting him, though.
There is no excuse for calling fellow Evertonians "anti-supporters", whatever his opinions might be. It's the kind of inter-fan behaviour we abhor (as is calling fellow Evertonians "kopites" or suggesting they go and support Liverpool). We have always had zero tolerance for such attitudes.
Now... you really want to conflate that with Bill Kenwright being called a liar? Have you noticed perhaps that he actually lies? That's why Evertonians call him a liar. If he didn't lie, perhaps you might have a point... but you don't.
As for the manager, David Moyes is a natural focal point for the full range of fans' emotions, most of which is part & parcel. I don't think it gets too far out of hand but if you have some specific examples in mind, you're welcome to hit the "Report Abuse" link and draw it to our attention. I really don't think he needs me protecting him, though.
Jon Cox
89 Posted 28/10/2011 at 21:59:43
89 Posted 28/10/2011 at 21:59:43
Paul, I think you've got it wrong mate although I agree with you 100% I would go for a slight change in the name.
Lets go for City of Yeovil FC. I mean doesn't that sound like a much better marketing stratergy??!!??
Lets go for City of Yeovil FC. I mean doesn't that sound like a much better marketing stratergy??!!??
Peter Hall
90 Posted 28/10/2011 at 23:57:16
90 Posted 28/10/2011 at 23:57:16
Michael
If Martin says "Kenwright is a liar" then "welcome to TW" but if he uses the phrase 'anti-supporter' then he's on a yellow card.
I don't think your stand on decent manners is consistent.
If Martin says "Kenwright is a liar" then "welcome to TW" but if he uses the phrase 'anti-supporter' then he's on a yellow card.
I don't think your stand on decent manners is consistent.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
91 Posted 29/10/2011 at 01:05:42
Editorial Team
91 Posted 29/10/2011 at 01:05:42
Peter,
You're connecting two things that are not related (and putting words into my mouth).
I don't think someone coming on here, calling a fellow supporter an "anti-supporter" is acceptable under any circumstances. Think about it... about what we provide... and for whom.
Bill Kenwright is a liar; that's not an opinion ? it' is an established and indisputable fact. Yet you presumably want me to sanction Evertonians for repeating it. I think you're confused.
You're connecting two things that are not related (and putting words into my mouth).
I don't think someone coming on here, calling a fellow supporter an "anti-supporter" is acceptable under any circumstances. Think about it... about what we provide... and for whom.
Bill Kenwright is a liar; that's not an opinion ? it' is an established and indisputable fact. Yet you presumably want me to sanction Evertonians for repeating it. I think you're confused.
Eric Myles
92 Posted 29/10/2011 at 01:17:46
92 Posted 29/10/2011 at 01:17:46
David #8 "Paul the only real issue stopping a sale is price. Everything else (stadium, debt, LFC in the city) is hot air. Do the owners deserve a return on their share purchase?"
Considering the amount of debt the board have saddled the club with, the mismanagment and lies they have come out with, and the bad deals they have made (Finch Farm, asset stripping) I think the questions should be Do the owners really deserve a return on their share purchase?
Considering the amount of debt the board have saddled the club with, the mismanagment and lies they have come out with, and the bad deals they have made (Finch Farm, asset stripping) I think the questions should be Do the owners really deserve a return on their share purchase?
Martin Mason
93 Posted 29/10/2011 at 05:34:00
93 Posted 29/10/2011 at 05:34:00
Is the word "anti-supporter" (those fans who are doing the opposite of "supporting" the club) any worse than calling BK a "liar" or any genuine fans not calling for board and manager change an "apologist?". Of course not so don't be so sensitive. I used the word deliberately to get just this reaction to show that one side feel that it's OK to apply insulting epithets to other fans but of course it is totally unacceptable for this to work in reverse? I'd say that calling other fans apologists or the chairman a liar is equally unacceptable in any circumstances. I don't need to use the words any more, I've made my point.
Gavin Ramejkis
94 Posted 29/10/2011 at 16:42:20
94 Posted 29/10/2011 at 16:42:20
Martin I'm sorry if you take the knock over this but I'll never support BK or his lickspittle board as they aren't Everton in my eyes and never will be, all they are is a bunch of millionaire carpet baggers who have doine literally nothing beneficial out of their own pocket for the club and collectively mismanaged it to its current state. To compound matters further they have the audacity to believe for whatever harebrained reason they have some god given right to a handsome return on their original investment which beyond the swapping of share ownership between them and the previous owners where every penny swapped those hands and not a penny dropped into the club itself.
The Sky income would have remained the same if not a single one of them had been in place or not and any outsourcing and sponsorship deals done on their watch haven't exactly set any records in comparison with our peer group have they?
So Martin do you demand your definition of "supporter" as someone that "supports" BK and his board or someone who "supports" Everton football club as they are distinctly different.
The Sky income would have remained the same if not a single one of them had been in place or not and any outsourcing and sponsorship deals done on their watch haven't exactly set any records in comparison with our peer group have they?
So Martin do you demand your definition of "supporter" as someone that "supports" BK and his board or someone who "supports" Everton football club as they are distinctly different.
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14 Posted 25/10/2011 at 18:31:45
If the answer is the failings of the Everton Board then it's clear we need change at the top, and yet you blame the only people (the Blue Union) trying to bring that about for "dragging the club's name through the mud" (which is all bit hyperbolic, really, and open to debate).
The old chestnut about Manchester City being the second, overshadowed club in that city is worth raising again. What potential buyers want is potential and if the debts at Everton can be brought down to a level more attractive to investors then we have bags of it.
It also requires a willing seller with a realistic price tag and I've yet to be convinced we have that in Bill K.