Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Reflections on a footballer
By Kevin Sparke :: 29/11/2011
53 Comments (»Last)
I?m rarely shocked by anything these
days, but hearing of Gary Speed?s death on Sunday knocked me sideways.
When we bought this player from Leeds, I thought we?d nabbed the bargain of the century as, even in his early days, he always looked a touch of class. When he departed under a cloud to Newcastle United just a couple of seasons later, I was totally gutted as he was one of the few bright sparks in a sea of gloom during that Kendall Mk3 era.
I?ve heard a few different rumours about Speed?s departure from Everton ? some of them contradictory and so I?m not going to repeat them here... what I will say is that, if there is ever a league table for messing things up off the pitch, then Everton Football Club must be approaching Champions League status. However, castigating the board of directors, both past and present, is not the reason why I?m writing this.
The life of a professional footballer is short. From schoolboy days, you are pampered and preened, told you are wonderful, classy, athletic... filled full of dreams of glory... and, if you are successful, you are showered with more cash than you can imagine; you are hero worshiped and tempted with booze, gambling and access to easy sex...
Then you?re placed in a unique position of having your working life analysed, scrutinised, criticised to the n-th degree... and all too often excoriated by people like me who?ve not the tenth of your skills and athleticism. You have songs written about you ? by your supporters and the opposition alike. You are told you are the greatest human being ever to walk the planet... and then, the week after, when you miss a tackle or shoot into Row Z, you?re a feeble-minded, bow-legged, donkey-footed imbecile who needs taking outside and shooting.
Is it any wonder that some of them turn to drink or start to believe they really are supermen? Well, they?re not angels... nor are they devils ? they?re young blokes being young blokes, and most of them are all too aware that one mistimed tackle or spliced tendon means that the dream life they live is going to come crashing down and an ordinary job and an ordinary existence beckons. When that happens, for some, believe it or not, it?s a blessed relief.
We come into this life with a blank slate and live our early years hoping we can be the best we can be. Most of us have not tasted the excitement nor the rewards of sporting success at any level and we certainly have not touched the pressures. As fans, we do this vicariously and live our dreams through our team and our heroes; sometimes they don?t live up to our exacting standards and we let them know, often cruelly and without mercy. We can easily escape from this cauldron of lunacy by switching the game off or walking away. It?s important to remember that some players don?t have that luxury; it?s their livelihood and some of them don?t cope very well with the criticism when they fail... or, indeed, the plaudits when they do well.
Every now and again, a genuine person emerges through the frantic madness and the uber-hype of top-flight professional football and most of us recognise this when we see it. One example was Sir Bobby Robson, a bloke who was almost universally admired throughout the football world; another is Gus Hiddink who rarely has a bad word to say about anyone. I?d put Gary Speed into that category. We never knew how good a manager he would have made and I?ve a feeling we?ve missed out on what might have been a very good career ? we'll never know; that story has ended.
Well, Gary Speed, in a life that promises so much and often delivers so little, you lived your life to the full... in the great arena that is football, and you played on the biggest domestic stage and represented your clubs and country with pride. You were loved by many, admired by many more... and most importantly you never let anyone down, especially yourself.
Some poet once wrote that the life of a man is brief, like a sparrow flying through a hall, and none of us know how long that flight is going to be. For those who have the comfort of religion or belief in an after-life, you?ll live on in another place... for me, it?s enough that you lived at all and played this stupid but oh so wonderful game we love ? with heart, skill and to the best of your ability ? your sun shone brightly and you lived your far too brief life to the full.
You?ll be missed lad, both as a footballer, a blue and a fellow traveller ? more importantly, you'll be remembered with affection by most who knew you or watched you play.
Reader Comments (53)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Kirk McArdle
2 Posted 29/11/2011 at 03:43:02
2 Posted 29/11/2011 at 03:43:02
Kevin,
One of the most balanced and thought provoking articles to grace this site in a long time.
Michael,
This is the kind of submission on a particular situation that should make it's way onto this wonderful site.
I could not bring myself to comment on the other thread. This article deserves one.
RIP Gary Speed. Gentleman to the last.
One of the most balanced and thought provoking articles to grace this site in a long time.
Michael,
This is the kind of submission on a particular situation that should make it's way onto this wonderful site.
I could not bring myself to comment on the other thread. This article deserves one.
RIP Gary Speed. Gentleman to the last.
Chris Rudd
3 Posted 29/11/2011 at 12:16:48
3 Posted 29/11/2011 at 12:16:48
Very well expressed sentiments Kevin.
RIP Gary Speed.
RIP Gary Speed.
Lee Courtliff
4 Posted 29/11/2011 at 13:49:54
4 Posted 29/11/2011 at 13:49:54
Well done.
A fitting tribute to a man who seemed to be respected by almost everyone who met him.
A fitting tribute to a man who seemed to be respected by almost everyone who met him.
Kase Chow
5 Posted 29/11/2011 at 14:01:25
5 Posted 29/11/2011 at 14:01:25
Gutted he is gone
Brian Hill
6 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:20:30
6 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:20:30
Almost none of this submission has anything to do with the life or death of Gary Speed. It is the personal philosophy of the correspondent with a couple of paragraphs tagged on at the end to make it apparently relevant.
Gary Speed supposedly "never let anyone down", least of all, I assume, the wife who found him hanging in their family home and the children who will never understand why their father abandoned them.
This seemingly endless eulogising of a man who has caused such pain and misery to those he purported to love is pitiful and embarrassing. Put yourself in his family's position before you respond.
Gary Speed supposedly "never let anyone down", least of all, I assume, the wife who found him hanging in their family home and the children who will never understand why their father abandoned them.
This seemingly endless eulogising of a man who has caused such pain and misery to those he purported to love is pitiful and embarrassing. Put yourself in his family's position before you respond.
Micky Norman
7 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:33:19
7 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:33:19
Many thanks for a wonderful article. My kids grew up with his name on their backs. He should have been our captain for ten years. In our house we are heartbroken. Thank you Gary. We miss you even more now.
Andy Crooks
8 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:41:48
8 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:41:48
Brian, whatever you think of Kevin's article, and I think it was heartfelt, your comments are harsh. Do you really think this was a conscious decision made by a man in sound mind, knowing the hurt it would cause his family? Of course it wasn't. Doubtless you feel he should have pulled himself together.
Paul Olsen
9 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:45:12
9 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:45:12
Go away Brian Hill, stick to the other thread for your crap. Your utter disregard for people with a mental illness, or something else you also know nothing about is sickening.
Send you regards to the family and leave it to them to judge, it is simply not your task.
Since you are so certain you now speak for the family, tell it straight to them. No, please don´t.
RIP Gary Speed
Send you regards to the family and leave it to them to judge, it is simply not your task.
Since you are so certain you now speak for the family, tell it straight to them. No, please don´t.
RIP Gary Speed
Howard Don
10 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:31:14
10 Posted 29/11/2011 at 19:31:14
Brilliant Kevin. Like you I was elated when we signed Gary, it was a dream, superb player, boyhood Blue, who said it was his dream move, plus the man had class and leadership in spades.
I've been thinking of one incident over and over for the last few days, from when he played for us. - Right in front of where we sit in the main stand an Everton player and one of the opposition where contesting a 50-50 ball, Speed is about 5m away. The opposition player comes away with the ball and as Speed was turning to chase after him he shouted at the Everton player "TOO EASY". - That's all, nothing much, but it made an impression on me at the time and it sums the guy up, because Gary Speed never did things the easy way, but always tried to do them the right way.
He was a leader in every sense, demanding 100% from others and always giving it himself whether on the field or in training and looking after his body, enabling him to play at the highest level for so long. A consumate professional who couldn't accept a perceived or actual lack of it in others (who cares now) and left the Club he loved.
I hated it when he left and hated it when he was villified by certain sections and once, just once, I noticed it got to him, when he just stood there and shook his head. But he never opened his mouth to the press and always maintained complete dignity ? sheer class. Let's give him a huge ovation on Sunday, RIP Gary.
I've been thinking of one incident over and over for the last few days, from when he played for us. - Right in front of where we sit in the main stand an Everton player and one of the opposition where contesting a 50-50 ball, Speed is about 5m away. The opposition player comes away with the ball and as Speed was turning to chase after him he shouted at the Everton player "TOO EASY". - That's all, nothing much, but it made an impression on me at the time and it sums the guy up, because Gary Speed never did things the easy way, but always tried to do them the right way.
He was a leader in every sense, demanding 100% from others and always giving it himself whether on the field or in training and looking after his body, enabling him to play at the highest level for so long. A consumate professional who couldn't accept a perceived or actual lack of it in others (who cares now) and left the Club he loved.
I hated it when he left and hated it when he was villified by certain sections and once, just once, I noticed it got to him, when he just stood there and shook his head. But he never opened his mouth to the press and always maintained complete dignity ? sheer class. Let's give him a huge ovation on Sunday, RIP Gary.
James Flynn
12 Posted 29/11/2011 at 21:07:50
12 Posted 29/11/2011 at 21:07:50
Brian (6) - A cut so close to the bone, many won't want to hear it.
I'd look at Andy's (8) comment, "Do you really think this was a conscious decision made by a man in sound mind, knowing the hurt it would cause his family"?
I believe we'll find out that he wasn't in sound mind due to repeated, undiagnosed, and (so) untreated concussions that he played through without rest or medical attention. This resulted in brain damage leading to suicide.
A terrible business all-around. As you point out, most terrible to his immediate family. Here's hoping this tragedy leads to a comprehensive exploration of head injury to soccer players.
I'd look at Andy's (8) comment, "Do you really think this was a conscious decision made by a man in sound mind, knowing the hurt it would cause his family"?
I believe we'll find out that he wasn't in sound mind due to repeated, undiagnosed, and (so) untreated concussions that he played through without rest or medical attention. This resulted in brain damage leading to suicide.
A terrible business all-around. As you point out, most terrible to his immediate family. Here's hoping this tragedy leads to a comprehensive exploration of head injury to soccer players.
Derek Thomas
13 Posted 30/11/2011 at 09:46:45
13 Posted 30/11/2011 at 09:46:45
James Flynn; sorry mate, you are totally wrong and before you or anyone else says What do you know? Well just as much as you as it happens with the added experience of having a very close family member, about the same age as well, go more or less the same way.
There is not 1 chance in 100,000 that heading the ball caused this tragedy, or else there would be footballers (and boxers) topping themselves by the dozen.
There is a physical component, in both sports, which, more in boxing (rotation) affects the physical aspect of the brain.
Then there is the Chemical aspect, the inbalance.
Then there is the indefinable Emotional aspect, which rules and overrules everything to the point of Irrationality(?).
And as I said, I have some background in this. It's (usually) an accumulation of all the little things that take on an importance in the mind of the beholder that far outweighs their actual status.
It's a balance between the Physical, Chemical, maybe even Electrical... these are the 'body' aspects of the brain. Throw in the emotional power of the mind and the see-saw effect comes into play. We all should admit that the power of the mind can overrule the body.
The main thing the experts know about the brain is they don't really know shit. Thus it is no surprise that the official verdict in cases like these still uses the old formula: 'While the balance of his mind was disturbed.'
Not heading a football, don't get sucked into this rubbish about football should be a non-contact sport. If we do, we should take up knitting... Nanny does NOT know best.
There is not 1 chance in 100,000 that heading the ball caused this tragedy, or else there would be footballers (and boxers) topping themselves by the dozen.
There is a physical component, in both sports, which, more in boxing (rotation) affects the physical aspect of the brain.
Then there is the Chemical aspect, the inbalance.
Then there is the indefinable Emotional aspect, which rules and overrules everything to the point of Irrationality(?).
And as I said, I have some background in this. It's (usually) an accumulation of all the little things that take on an importance in the mind of the beholder that far outweighs their actual status.
It's a balance between the Physical, Chemical, maybe even Electrical... these are the 'body' aspects of the brain. Throw in the emotional power of the mind and the see-saw effect comes into play. We all should admit that the power of the mind can overrule the body.
The main thing the experts know about the brain is they don't really know shit. Thus it is no surprise that the official verdict in cases like these still uses the old formula: 'While the balance of his mind was disturbed.'
Not heading a football, don't get sucked into this rubbish about football should be a non-contact sport. If we do, we should take up knitting... Nanny does NOT know best.
James Flynn
14 Posted 30/11/2011 at 14:31:10
14 Posted 30/11/2011 at 14:31:10
Derek (12) - Ugh. Where do I start?
"before you or anyone else says What do you know? Well just as much as you". Which is nothing. Like you, I don't know. Unlike you I didn't spend several paragraphs proving it.
"There is not 1 chance in 100,000 that heading the ball caused this tragedy"
You just made that up, unless you can provide a link to where you found that statistic.
You follow that with 5 paragraphs explaining the brain to me. Followed immediately by "The main thing the experts know about the brain is they don't really know shit". I laughed out loud.
There's actually very little brain experts DON'T know about the human brain. And study on the effects of skull concussion on professional athletes, including soccer players, has been ongoing for some years.
I wasn't aware of some movement to make soccer a non-contact sport. Is there one? If there is, I'm not part of it. Players know the risk.
All I'm saying, and will continue to say, is I hope possible soccer-related brain damage is considered and looked into regarding Speed's suicide.
"before you or anyone else says What do you know? Well just as much as you". Which is nothing. Like you, I don't know. Unlike you I didn't spend several paragraphs proving it.
"There is not 1 chance in 100,000 that heading the ball caused this tragedy"
You just made that up, unless you can provide a link to where you found that statistic.
You follow that with 5 paragraphs explaining the brain to me. Followed immediately by "The main thing the experts know about the brain is they don't really know shit". I laughed out loud.
There's actually very little brain experts DON'T know about the human brain. And study on the effects of skull concussion on professional athletes, including soccer players, has been ongoing for some years.
I wasn't aware of some movement to make soccer a non-contact sport. Is there one? If there is, I'm not part of it. Players know the risk.
All I'm saying, and will continue to say, is I hope possible soccer-related brain damage is considered and looked into regarding Speed's suicide.
Conor Skelly
15 Posted 30/11/2011 at 21:20:36
15 Posted 30/11/2011 at 21:20:36
I have read all the back-and-forths between us fellow ToffeeWebbers on all things Gary Speed over the last few days.
First off, it is an absolute tragedy that a man, husband and father should ever come to a stage in his life to take such drastic measures. I don't believe for a second that anybody on here is happy about the loss of such a role model figure so if anybody comes across as disrespectful for asking 'Why he left?' or 'How he died' I would personally like to say 'I know what you're getting at'.
They say "Don't speak ill of the dead," but I don't see anybody speaking ill of the man, even those who criticize the selfish nature of his suicide have their own opinions on the matter and that's perfectly acceptable in my book.
James Flynn, I can't agree with you're theory based simply on the numbers. Why not more? We don't know enough about the man to make any real assumptions. We can only speculate. My theory would be what I will call the rock star theory.
Gary Speed is the only suicide I can think of in British football in the last 20 years (high profile). He happens to have the most PL appearances and also happens to have just finished a 20-year playing career. I wonder if the come-down from over 500 "concerts" in the last 20 years was too sharp for someone who might have been pre disposed to manic depression to begin with.
I myself am bi-polar and proud might I add. I can speak on the issue of highs and lows with some first-hand experience. I also have a Degree in Psychology for what it may be worth so I hope I don't come across as insensitive or cold. I think some of us naturally just want to try and understand why one of our own sons chose to leave us so suddenly.
I was there for his hat-trick vs Southampton and I had Speed on the back of my Danka kit. During the warm up to a game the ball rolled over to by where I was sitting and speed came over to get it. I remember shouting "Gary". He turned around looked me dead in the eye and like a hero gave me the thumbs up and said "Alright kid".
First off, it is an absolute tragedy that a man, husband and father should ever come to a stage in his life to take such drastic measures. I don't believe for a second that anybody on here is happy about the loss of such a role model figure so if anybody comes across as disrespectful for asking 'Why he left?' or 'How he died' I would personally like to say 'I know what you're getting at'.
They say "Don't speak ill of the dead," but I don't see anybody speaking ill of the man, even those who criticize the selfish nature of his suicide have their own opinions on the matter and that's perfectly acceptable in my book.
James Flynn, I can't agree with you're theory based simply on the numbers. Why not more? We don't know enough about the man to make any real assumptions. We can only speculate. My theory would be what I will call the rock star theory.
Gary Speed is the only suicide I can think of in British football in the last 20 years (high profile). He happens to have the most PL appearances and also happens to have just finished a 20-year playing career. I wonder if the come-down from over 500 "concerts" in the last 20 years was too sharp for someone who might have been pre disposed to manic depression to begin with.
I myself am bi-polar and proud might I add. I can speak on the issue of highs and lows with some first-hand experience. I also have a Degree in Psychology for what it may be worth so I hope I don't come across as insensitive or cold. I think some of us naturally just want to try and understand why one of our own sons chose to leave us so suddenly.
I was there for his hat-trick vs Southampton and I had Speed on the back of my Danka kit. During the warm up to a game the ball rolled over to by where I was sitting and speed came over to get it. I remember shouting "Gary". He turned around looked me dead in the eye and like a hero gave me the thumbs up and said "Alright kid".
Brendan McLaughlin
16 Posted 30/11/2011 at 22:21:50
16 Posted 30/11/2011 at 22:21:50
Lovely tribute, Conor #14.
But I have to disagree... there's a million players that have stepped out of the limelight & have survived. Gary was just in a dark place... he was still involved in the game and feck the football... even his young boys and lovely wife couldn't pull him back. God bless him.
But I have to disagree... there's a million players that have stepped out of the limelight & have survived. Gary was just in a dark place... he was still involved in the game and feck the football... even his young boys and lovely wife couldn't pull him back. God bless him.
Conor Skelly
17 Posted 30/11/2011 at 22:50:02
17 Posted 30/11/2011 at 22:50:02
Thanks Brendan. The question is though, what brought him to that dark place? How many footballers do go into a dark place once they retire..? They don't have to commit the unthinkable to be very depressed! To go from the ecstasy of playing over 535 times in front of thousands of people to then not playing at all is almost untested water.
Of course there are other players like Maldini, Giggs or James that haven't followed the same fate, but how many people that smoke cannabis develoup psychosis? Only the pre-disposed is the answer. If you take adrenaline as being a drug that the brain has to moderate and deal with, it makes sense that some will develoup deep depressions when exposed to unnatural levels during a sustained period. Logically the more times you do this (535) the more times you have gone from the highest of highs to an hour later sitting at home in a quiet house. These swings can in the long term leave lasting clinical damage to the vulnerable.
At the risk of upsetting anybody, I must reiterate that this is my educated guess and no more. Hopefully Speed's death can raise awareness of the single biggest killer of young men in Britain & Ireland and make people stop and think before they judge people with mental illness and remind people to be more conscientious of the feelings of their peers.
By the way, great OP. This might all be a bit deep for some readers but we must as men and friends get past this stigma if we are to turn the tide on suicide.
Rest in Peace, Gary Speed.
Of course there are other players like Maldini, Giggs or James that haven't followed the same fate, but how many people that smoke cannabis develoup psychosis? Only the pre-disposed is the answer. If you take adrenaline as being a drug that the brain has to moderate and deal with, it makes sense that some will develoup deep depressions when exposed to unnatural levels during a sustained period. Logically the more times you do this (535) the more times you have gone from the highest of highs to an hour later sitting at home in a quiet house. These swings can in the long term leave lasting clinical damage to the vulnerable.
At the risk of upsetting anybody, I must reiterate that this is my educated guess and no more. Hopefully Speed's death can raise awareness of the single biggest killer of young men in Britain & Ireland and make people stop and think before they judge people with mental illness and remind people to be more conscientious of the feelings of their peers.
By the way, great OP. This might all be a bit deep for some readers but we must as men and friends get past this stigma if we are to turn the tide on suicide.
Rest in Peace, Gary Speed.
Dermot Ryan
18 Posted 01/12/2011 at 07:32:45
18 Posted 01/12/2011 at 07:32:45
Let's hope the Blue tribute can come close to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=334mKagQFl4&feature=share
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=334mKagQFl4&feature=share
Michael Summers
19 Posted 01/12/2011 at 15:17:17
19 Posted 01/12/2011 at 15:17:17
Still can't believe Gary Speed is dead. He was a fantastic player for the blues and should of stayed a lot longer. Absolute legend and listening to Sharpy talk about him, he could have well been a future manager of our great club.
RIP, Gary ? a true legend.
RIP, Gary ? a true legend.
Ian McDowell
20 Posted 01/12/2011 at 17:51:57
20 Posted 01/12/2011 at 17:51:57
When I heard the news Gary Speed had died I felt sad all day Sunday and probably a few more days in the week. Strange isn't it I never even met the bloke. That must say something for the kind of man Gary Speed was.
RIP Gary Speed
RIP Gary Speed
Brian Hill
21 Posted 01/12/2011 at 17:47:04
21 Posted 01/12/2011 at 17:47:04
Paul Olsen @ 9, thanks for your professional opinion. What evidence do you have that Gary Speed was mentally ill or "something else"? Nobody who knew him closely has yet come forward to even hint at such. I stand by my original post and challenge you to oppose it with some greater insight than you have shown yourself to be capable of thus far.
Brendan McLaughlin
23 Posted 01/12/2011 at 22:05:33
23 Posted 01/12/2011 at 22:05:33
Brian #20
FFS... the poor guy hanged himself. What more "evidence" do you need?
FFS... the poor guy hanged himself. What more "evidence" do you need?
Elaine Riding
29 Posted 01/12/2011 at 23:01:51
29 Posted 01/12/2011 at 23:01:51
No evidence of the depression has come to light so far whatsoever.
Huge rumours of an injunction obtained Saturday night though. (I won't say what for as it's only rumours.)
If so, this tragic needless death would somehow make more sense.
Never buy a red-top paper again!!
Huge rumours of an injunction obtained Saturday night though. (I won't say what for as it's only rumours.)
If so, this tragic needless death would somehow make more sense.
Never buy a red-top paper again!!
David Galves
31 Posted 01/12/2011 at 23:02:40
31 Posted 01/12/2011 at 23:02:40
Brian @ 6 ? your comments smack of the bar room counsellor and the "suicide is the selfish way out" approach. We all understand that Gary Speed leaves a devastated family but I'm sure you recognise what a horrible state he must have been in to decide to end his life regardless of the love and support of his family.
Elaine @ 24 ? why even post about the undoubted rumours that are bound to begin? Let's not have a race to the bottom.
Elaine @ 24 ? why even post about the undoubted rumours that are bound to begin? Let's not have a race to the bottom.
Elaine Riding
32 Posted 01/12/2011 at 23:35:37
32 Posted 01/12/2011 at 23:35:37
#23 David, I only mentioned the rumours as a possible explaination for the mystifying sudden death. It's daft to believe that everyone hasn't thought of their own 'theory' anyway, and I certainly am not trying to cause any ill-feeling.
The point you make about 'selfish way out' ... well, it's not nice to say, but in my opinion it was a pretty selfish act Gary did, in the fact that his kids could have found him. Why do it at home? I realise rational thinking may have gone out of the window, but as I said, that's my opinion.
It doesn't soften the blow and the shock we all felt on Sunday or diminish the fond feelings (I assume) all Evertonians have for Gary.
The point you make about 'selfish way out' ... well, it's not nice to say, but in my opinion it was a pretty selfish act Gary did, in the fact that his kids could have found him. Why do it at home? I realise rational thinking may have gone out of the window, but as I said, that's my opinion.
It doesn't soften the blow and the shock we all felt on Sunday or diminish the fond feelings (I assume) all Evertonians have for Gary.
Mike Gaynes
33 Posted 01/12/2011 at 23:55:05
33 Posted 01/12/2011 at 23:55:05
Thanks, Kevin, for Sparking this exchange. This the best-written thread I've ever seen on TW... an exchange of strongly-held viewpoints, articulately expressed. I wish it were always thus.
Andy Crooks
34 Posted 02/12/2011 at 00:09:41
34 Posted 02/12/2011 at 00:09:41
Elaine, suicide in the vast majority of cases is the last desperate act of someone in a state of mind incomprehensible to those of us lucky enough never to have been there.
Elaine Riding
35 Posted 02/12/2011 at 00:21:29
35 Posted 02/12/2011 at 00:21:29
#26 Andy, I appreciate what you are saying, and I'm sure we have all had our moments of 'I have had enough', thankfully most of us are of sound enough mind to think clearly quickly enough to avoid such tragedies such as this.
I maybe alone here but, on reflecting about Gary Speed, a lot of my feelings towards him are of guilt.
By guilt, I mean, that deep down I knew he wasn't a shit-house... yet I still went along with the idea... and for Gary in particular, as a fellow Evertonian, that must have been very painful to deal with.
Whereas, for example, if Barmby was found hanging this Sunday, I genuinely wouldn't bat an eyelid.
I maybe alone here but, on reflecting about Gary Speed, a lot of my feelings towards him are of guilt.
By guilt, I mean, that deep down I knew he wasn't a shit-house... yet I still went along with the idea... and for Gary in particular, as a fellow Evertonian, that must have been very painful to deal with.
Whereas, for example, if Barmby was found hanging this Sunday, I genuinely wouldn't bat an eyelid.
Derek Williams
36 Posted 02/12/2011 at 00:39:55
36 Posted 02/12/2011 at 00:39:55
Tut tut Elaine.
Kevin Hudson
40 Posted 02/12/2011 at 09:36:14
40 Posted 02/12/2011 at 09:36:14
Re: The atrocious Barmby comment..
Such a poisonous aside is utterly inexcusable. Elaine, would you care to repeat that comment to the man's face, or in front of his son, Jack?
If the answer is "no," then why would you think it's acceptable to peddle such hate-speak via the anonymity of a laptop?
The amount of apalling comments on TW this week beggars belief.
Such a poisonous aside is utterly inexcusable. Elaine, would you care to repeat that comment to the man's face, or in front of his son, Jack?
If the answer is "no," then why would you think it's acceptable to peddle such hate-speak via the anonymity of a laptop?
The amount of apalling comments on TW this week beggars belief.
Derek Williams
41 Posted 02/12/2011 at 10:07:37
41 Posted 02/12/2011 at 10:07:37
You're right Kevin though I guess Toffeeweb simply mirrors society as a whole. It WAS late at night however so maybe Elaine might have reservations abour her post in the cold light of dawn and withdraw the Barmby sentiments.
Matt Thomas
42 Posted 02/12/2011 at 10:38:58
42 Posted 02/12/2011 at 10:38:58
Re Eliane #24 ? A very good friend of mine almost committed suicide a few years ago, thankfully he was found by the police with minutes to spare and therefore saved. At the time of this happening, he went through rehabilitaion and described to me what he went through prior to almost taking his own life.
He revealed that when you are at that point, all rational thinking has gone and you are almost a different person... so much so, you don't think about the consequences ? otherwise you wouldn't attempt to take your own life.
He now says he would never attempt it again and, if anything, is a much stronger person. I really don't think people should be called selfish for this as if they were of sound mind they surely wouldn't try to commit such an act.
He revealed that when you are at that point, all rational thinking has gone and you are almost a different person... so much so, you don't think about the consequences ? otherwise you wouldn't attempt to take your own life.
He now says he would never attempt it again and, if anything, is a much stronger person. I really don't think people should be called selfish for this as if they were of sound mind they surely wouldn't try to commit such an act.
Tony J Williams
43 Posted 02/12/2011 at 11:15:22
43 Posted 02/12/2011 at 11:15:22
Or maybe not Derek. Hate, if that is the feelings she has for Barmby, can make us say/do strange things.
There is no comparison, but did you feel sorry when you saw the glorification of Gadaffi's demise? (I did, only because of the fear in his eyes getting dragged away and got me thinking how terrified he was.)
Most rejoiced in it. The papers loved it and couldn't wait to put the photos on there.
It sounds like Elaine hates/dislikes Barmby and, true to form, wouldn't be arsed if he did himself in. Many others wouldn't.
There is no comparison, but did you feel sorry when you saw the glorification of Gadaffi's demise? (I did, only because of the fear in his eyes getting dragged away and got me thinking how terrified he was.)
Most rejoiced in it. The papers loved it and couldn't wait to put the photos on there.
It sounds like Elaine hates/dislikes Barmby and, true to form, wouldn't be arsed if he did himself in. Many others wouldn't.
Elaine Riding
44 Posted 02/12/2011 at 13:52:00
44 Posted 02/12/2011 at 13:52:00
#31 Matt, my earlier comment (#24) says I realise rational thinking may have gone out of the window, and I said the selfish aspect was just my opinion. I hope this site still lets other members express their own opinions, as I actually enjoy reading some of what others think, even though I may not agree, I appreciate their thoughts...
As for my so-called 'attrocious' Barmby comment, I used it as an example of how my opinions of players and attitudes differ. I will use the word EXAMPLE again, and ask would he get a minutes applause / silence at Goodison? mmm ... It's just an example, I could have used others. It was meant to be a reflection of how highly Gary Speed was still thought of by fans.
As for my so-called 'attrocious' Barmby comment, I used it as an example of how my opinions of players and attitudes differ. I will use the word EXAMPLE again, and ask would he get a minutes applause / silence at Goodison? mmm ... It's just an example, I could have used others. It was meant to be a reflection of how highly Gary Speed was still thought of by fans.
Colin Fitzpatrick
45 Posted 02/12/2011 at 14:27:49
45 Posted 02/12/2011 at 14:27:49
Kevin, an absolute gem of an article, thank you for taking the time and effort over it.
Ray Roche
47 Posted 02/12/2011 at 15:44:24
47 Posted 02/12/2011 at 15:44:24
Elaine Riding
Rumours of an injunction? I'd not heard that and neither had any of my mates to whom I've been talking to today. Why start, or perpetuate, a "rumour" that may not have any foundation?
Let's be sexist and say that it's just a woman doing what they're good at: Gossiping.
Rumours of an injunction? I'd not heard that and neither had any of my mates to whom I've been talking to today. Why start, or perpetuate, a "rumour" that may not have any foundation?
Let's be sexist and say that it's just a woman doing what they're good at: Gossiping.
Elaine Riding
48 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:22:58
48 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:22:58
Ok, #36 Ray, be as sexist as you want, as we post as a family ? the options on the name when registering didn't have a couple/family setting. We must read different forums / blogs to you and your friends.
Such a sudden death is bound to spark 'rumours' as you call it, thats why I did not include any content and I thought this was explained.
And to answer Kevin #35, as explained, Barmby was an example; do you want me to replace Barmby for Gosling then...?
Maybe other opinions are a bit too much here, and we should all just stick to posting on other threads saying 'Moyes Out' .. 'Kenwright Out' instead then!
Such a sudden death is bound to spark 'rumours' as you call it, thats why I did not include any content and I thought this was explained.
And to answer Kevin #35, as explained, Barmby was an example; do you want me to replace Barmby for Gosling then...?
Maybe other opinions are a bit too much here, and we should all just stick to posting on other threads saying 'Moyes Out' .. 'Kenwright Out' instead then!
Ray Roche
49 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:32:08
49 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:32:08
Elaine. Yes, we must read different stuff. A couple of my mates knew Speed, one of then knew him well, and the rumours that spring up at these times really naffed all of us off. And as for red tops, I wouldn't have one in the house.
The Gossip bit was tongue in cheek .
The Gossip bit was tongue in cheek .
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
50 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:36:17
Editorial Team
50 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:36:17
Elaine and family,
Each of you in the family who want to post could perhaps register individually, with different usernames, but using the family e.mail address.
That would be our preference, rather than reading messages from Elaine that may not be written by Elaine.
Just saying...
Each of you in the family who want to post could perhaps register individually, with different usernames, but using the family e.mail address.
That would be our preference, rather than reading messages from Elaine that may not be written by Elaine.
Just saying...
Elaine Riding
52 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:41:28
52 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:41:28
Michael, thanks for clearing that up, and we will update, didnt know you could use same email for different names.
#38 Ray, taken as tongue in cheek. If I genuinely did think a rumour/story was worth mentioning then I would put it out there for members to make their own minds up 'from my hidden position in front of my laptop'...
#38 Ray, taken as tongue in cheek. If I genuinely did think a rumour/story was worth mentioning then I would put it out there for members to make their own minds up 'from my hidden position in front of my laptop'...
Liam Appleby
53 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:48:08
53 Posted 02/12/2011 at 16:48:08
Great read Kevin. Fair play to you sir.
Mark Riding
56 Posted 02/12/2011 at 17:05:51
56 Posted 02/12/2011 at 17:05:51
#39 Michael.. Done.. Ta.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
57 Posted 02/12/2011 at 17:50:13
Editorial Team
57 Posted 02/12/2011 at 17:50:13
Thanks Mark... appreciated.
Can I ask: Were some or all the previous posts on this thread from you or Elaine? (Or the family goldfish???)
Can I ask: Were some or all the previous posts on this thread from you or Elaine? (Or the family goldfish???)
Mark Riding
58 Posted 02/12/2011 at 17:59:39
58 Posted 02/12/2011 at 17:59:39
Michael, the posts on this thread are mostly mine.
Having just talked to other members of the family who have read this post, even the mention, even, as intended, as just an example of Barmby, was bound to cause a strong reaction.. and that was not the intention. The intention was to show the feelings different supporters have towards different players.
#25 Mike, summed this thread up for me. Strong opinions, and debate..
Having just talked to other members of the family who have read this post, even the mention, even, as intended, as just an example of Barmby, was bound to cause a strong reaction.. and that was not the intention. The intention was to show the feelings different supporters have towards different players.
#25 Mike, summed this thread up for me. Strong opinions, and debate..
Andy Crooks
59 Posted 02/12/2011 at 18:25:53
59 Posted 02/12/2011 at 18:25:53
Elaine, football is football; a sport, a game, nothing more. Save your anger for something more worthwhile than Nick Barmby. By the way, I'm not being sanctimonious or lecturing.
In the heat of the moment I've said stuff about David Moyes that I have regretted in the cold light of day. Let's get back to some normality on this site. Moyes out!!
In the heat of the moment I've said stuff about David Moyes that I have regretted in the cold light of day. Let's get back to some normality on this site. Moyes out!!
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
63 Posted 02/12/2011 at 19:59:21
Editorial Team
63 Posted 02/12/2011 at 19:59:21
Okay, based on the sensitives being aggravated here, I'm going to sanitize the thread of the Barmby stuff from the point where it started to go off the rails. Some of the comment number references may be shifted as a result.
This was initially a tribute thread to Gary Speed. Let's return to that, please.
This was initially a tribute thread to Gary Speed. Let's return to that, please.
Andy Crooks
64 Posted 02/12/2011 at 19:55:11
64 Posted 02/12/2011 at 19:55:11
Michael Kenrick, do people post as a family? How absolutely terrifying. Can you guarantee that if another A Crooks appears on any thread (my wife and I share the same initial) the thread will be closed immediately. Toffeeweb is as much a sanctuary as my local.
Elaine, stop digging. What you said is indefensible.
Elaine, stop digging. What you said is indefensible.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
65 Posted 02/12/2011 at 20:06:28
Editorial Team
65 Posted 02/12/2011 at 20:06:28
That was a surprise to me, Andy. But there's a difference between family members all using one and the same account, as in Elaine/Mark's case, and your spouse logging on her own name (she's not called Andy too, is she?).
But if your wife is actually posting in your place, using your account, even pretending to be you!!! ? we'd have no idea. The system is not perfect.
As for having Elaine/Mark retract the original offending reference to Barmby (which I have left up; otherwise, I'd need to cull half the posts...), it doesn't look as if that is going to happen. Can we please just drop it?
But if your wife is actually posting in your place, using your account, even pretending to be you!!! ? we'd have no idea. The system is not perfect.
As for having Elaine/Mark retract the original offending reference to Barmby (which I have left up; otherwise, I'd need to cull half the posts...), it doesn't look as if that is going to happen. Can we please just drop it?
Brian Hill
66 Posted 04/12/2011 at 06:01:20
66 Posted 04/12/2011 at 06:01:20
Brendan @ 21: "FFS... the poor guy hanged himself. What more "evidence" do you need?"
The whole point of my argument is that nobody has any idea why Speed killed himself. I do not buy in to the ever expanding religion of psychology, the practitioners of which invent the very diseases they claim to cure.
I repeat, nobody who knew Speed has offered the slightest indication that he was troubled, depressed, or anything else.
Yet so many, who never met Gary Speed, have such faith in this religion of the mind that they choose to believe the most bizarre actions committed by any person at any time are now acceptable with the excuse that "he didn't know what he was doing".
The whole point of my argument is that nobody has any idea why Speed killed himself. I do not buy in to the ever expanding religion of psychology, the practitioners of which invent the very diseases they claim to cure.
I repeat, nobody who knew Speed has offered the slightest indication that he was troubled, depressed, or anything else.
Yet so many, who never met Gary Speed, have such faith in this religion of the mind that they choose to believe the most bizarre actions committed by any person at any time are now acceptable with the excuse that "he didn't know what he was doing".
Tony Cheek
67 Posted 04/12/2011 at 07:15:39
67 Posted 04/12/2011 at 07:15:39
A very well written tribute Kevin, one that would not have been out of place if read aloud at Garys funeral.
But the response went a bit pear shaped after Brians contribution. Not at all what Kevin was expecting here I think.
I feel it is wrong for any of us to express our opinions why or how he died, when we dont know the facts. Leave that alone, it will come to light one day. There could or not, be more to it than meets the eye. But let it be for the time being.
R.I.P Gary Speed, a great footballer and more important a great person.
But the response went a bit pear shaped after Brians contribution. Not at all what Kevin was expecting here I think.
I feel it is wrong for any of us to express our opinions why or how he died, when we dont know the facts. Leave that alone, it will come to light one day. There could or not, be more to it than meets the eye. But let it be for the time being.
R.I.P Gary Speed, a great footballer and more important a great person.
Sam Higgins
68 Posted 04/12/2011 at 18:32:46
68 Posted 04/12/2011 at 18:32:46
Agreed Tony Cheek. What started as a dam good tribute soon turned sceptic. Nasty ill-informed comments made by hatemongers.
James Flynn
69 Posted 05/12/2011 at 01:44:35
69 Posted 05/12/2011 at 01:44:35
Here's my "rumour"
20 years of professional soccer thus.
Skull . .
1. 1,000s of ball bounced off of at speeds up to 30 MPH (or more?)
2. Elbows thrown at and connecting
3. Colliding with other skulls
4. No medical attention given to
5. Playing through all of them
Let's have a serious look at those.
20 years of professional soccer thus.
Skull . .
1. 1,000s of ball bounced off of at speeds up to 30 MPH (or more?)
2. Elbows thrown at and connecting
3. Colliding with other skulls
4. No medical attention given to
5. Playing through all of them
Let's have a serious look at those.
Jamie Sweet
70 Posted 05/12/2011 at 02:24:31
70 Posted 05/12/2011 at 02:24:31
James Flynn... I see you've posted this theory on every Speed related thread but no-one seems to be going along with it.
But I see what you're doing... trying to alert our team to the dangers of going up for headers... thus making them reluctant to put up the high balls. An interesting approach to trying to get our team to play it on the deck. I fully support your cause. Please let Jags know in particular that he is endangering his team-mates with every hoof he sends in their general direction.
But I see what you're doing... trying to alert our team to the dangers of going up for headers... thus making them reluctant to put up the high balls. An interesting approach to trying to get our team to play it on the deck. I fully support your cause. Please let Jags know in particular that he is endangering his team-mates with every hoof he sends in their general direction.
James Brand
71 Posted 05/12/2011 at 19:28:08
71 Posted 05/12/2011 at 19:28:08
Kevin
Wonderful article! Very sad that it has been tarnished by Neanderthal idiots who don't deserve to read such sensitive and appropriate posts. I believe in posts being subject to responses and comments without being censored, but come on people, have a shred of humanity and lets raise the level of debate to that beyond juvenile.
Once again, thank you Kevin for such a beautiful tribute...
Wonderful article! Very sad that it has been tarnished by Neanderthal idiots who don't deserve to read such sensitive and appropriate posts. I believe in posts being subject to responses and comments without being censored, but come on people, have a shred of humanity and lets raise the level of debate to that beyond juvenile.
Once again, thank you Kevin for such a beautiful tribute...
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1 Posted 29/11/2011 at 03:32:11
That's a fantastic tribute. Brilliant and moving.