Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Moyes Out?
By Gary Smith :: 10/12/2011
89 Comments (»Last)
I should start by acknowledging that I have always been a big supporter of Moyes and believe he HAS moved the club forward from the dark days of the early 1990s when we would be regularly fighting for our Premier League survival.
We HAVE without doubt enjoyed a fantastic spell under Moyes since he took over and has deserved all the plaudits for the regular miracle he worked year on year without money to spend of any note.
One fact stands out to me which has slowly eaten away at me more and more aggressively over the last 12-18 months... we finished 4th in the Premier League with a team significantly worse than the team we have assembled today!!!
I have been trying to remain upbeat and positive but the more I relate to this fact and watch the negativity and drivel that has set into Moyes and the team over the last 12-18 months, the more it seems true... Moyes is failing.
He sets himself very high standards and prides himself on well organised and disciplined team formations but I believe he has lost something; it maybe self-belief, it maybe the lack of funds to progress his vision, it could even be he just doesn't care anymore. Only he can answer that question; whatever the answer, I know that I have now lost the faith.
There is a well know saying: change is as good a holiday... Moyes probably needs a long break away from football, like Martin O'Neill has done not so long ago. Change is good, change will breath a new freshness, a new vigour, a new strategy, a new hope.Â
Even the greatest managers embrace change openly, Sir Alex Ferguson has created three, maybe even four great teams; he has never been scared of change.
Moyes on the other hand does not seem to embrace this concept well, in fact he seems to prefer the opposite. This can be beat summed up by the numerous debates about formations, negative tactics, lack of Plan B, first name on team sheet is a 'past his sell-by date' Cahill etc.
All these point towards a lack of willingness to openly embrace change. So now I, a longtime Moyes supporter and advocate, ask for the one thing Moyes can't bare... CHANGE. This is not change for the sake of it but change to reinvent, reshape, re-energise, rejuvenate, revitalise our very good (on paper but not the pitch) football team.
The challenge we have is who would be the man to replace Moyes. For me, I believe there are a lot of good young Managers out there and they all bring with them the desire and ideas Moyes demonstrated when he first arrived. More importantly, whoever replaces Moyes must have a philosophy of football; if only we could find an obscure French manager in the mold of Arsene Wenger, he has an eye for spotting the type of player that fits HIS football philosophy and always plays good attractive attacking football, no matter what. This reverberates throughout the club and youth academy, every day that philosophy is drilled into all players of all ages. I do wonder if another Wenger is out there waiting to be discovered.
My favourites to take over from Moyes are:
- Paul Lambert
- Roberto Martinez
- Bredan Rodgers
- Neil Adkins
- Mark Hughes
Reader Comments (89)
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Brian Hill
2 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:22:19
2 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:22:19
I have just seen Moyes's post-match interview on the BBC website and cannot believe that there is anyone on this earth more disinterested in their job. His indifference is shocking, as it has been for some time. The passion is gone completely. He clearly has nothing more to give to this club.
I freely concede that he lifted us from a pit of despair for a while, but we are now back in that pit and he looks utterly incapable of doing anything about it. Surely, for the benefit of both parties, Moyes and Everton must part company.
James Robinson
3 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:42:29
3 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:42:29
Not Mark Hughes might be an ex-player but no.
Joe McMahon
4 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:46:51
4 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:46:51
I would take anyone, and by that I mean anyone. Over 10 years in a job, to be paid 65k a week and not field any strikers is taking the piss out of every single Everton Fan there is (even Doddy & Tunstead). It's embarrassing to be associated with a club that plays the most negative dour anti football I have ever seen in 35 years of watching the game.
Ian Kearney
5 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:50:08
5 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:50:08
Agree with James, Hughes is a bad tit, City went from strength to strength after he left, Lambert is the pick for me, done a great job wherever he has been, and european pedigree as a player.
Lee Courtliff
6 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:40:12
6 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:40:12
Moyes really did give us some pride back. It was the first time since I started to support Everton that I didn't get ridiculed when I told somebody who I support. I don't feel comfortable calling for his head because of what he has done for us and because he has to work under such financial constraints. But I am afraid that iam starting to seriously doubt the man and beginning to wonder if maybe he should just leave before all his good work is completely forgotten. I just don't understand why he won't try something different. I don't think there is any need to insult him though. For fans like me who only started going on in the '90s the Moyes era is the best we have ever seen. In terms of consistent league positions.
James Robinson
7 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:55:04
7 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:55:04
Agree Lee, it is hard to call to replace Moyes. Personally I think he is not performing this season though. However I think the more pressing concern is to get the ownership issue sorted, then take it from there with regard to Moyes.
Andrew Gilbert
8 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:52:01
8 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:52:01
Poyet, Bilic or Lambert may do a job. Holloway got Blackpool playing some cracking football but I don't think he is an Everton manager, well maybe can't make my mind up on that one!
Big Joe Royal as caretaker would be nice.
Can't afford (literally) to get rid of Moyes so he's here as long as the current owners are.
Big Joe Royal as caretaker would be nice.
Can't afford (literally) to get rid of Moyes so he's here as long as the current owners are.
Gerry Morrison
9 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:58:21
9 Posted 10/12/2011 at 21:58:21
Brian. I just watched Moyes on the BBC too. He was asked how come Arsenal made so many chances, and he replied that Arsenal have good players. That sounds pretty obvious to me, and, by the looks of it, pretty obvious to Moyes too. The reason Moyes comes across as disinterested, I suspect, is because he is sick of answering stupid questions put to him by third rate football journalists.
Tommy Heskrth
10 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:04:26
10 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:04:26
Andrew,
At worst we should keep him until his contract expires, or he should do the decent thing and resign as he's meant ot be a man of integrity...
He has gone stale there is no denying it, surely not even Ian & Doddy can refute this??
At worst we should keep him until his contract expires, or he should do the decent thing and resign as he's meant ot be a man of integrity...
He has gone stale there is no denying it, surely not even Ian & Doddy can refute this??
Chris Butler
11 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:05:47
11 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:05:47
I think nobody would have cared if we'd lost 3-1, like we did a few years ago. I went to that game and the Everton fans applauded their team after the game. Frankly I'm sick of applauding them; whatever side Moyes puts out nowadays, we're shit.
The substitution of Saha when we were looking good had a big effect on the game. Do we even need another match report to tell us how shit we are? NO. The players don't even deserve rating nowadays; with the exception of Baines and Hibbert, nobody gives 100%.
David Moyes is like the Mussolini of Everton ? he just distracts people from problems. He talks about having no money after spending £11 million on Billy.
I know this would be unpopular but I'd like Peter Reid, he has an excellent bond with the fans, he's passionate unlike Moyes. I remember a few years ago the players used to say they loved playing for Moyes, now the majority hate it. Arteta and Pienaar alluded to this in their interviews after they left basically saying that we have no ambition.
What annoys me is the happy clappers, the people who read Bluekipper, wear a Fellaini wig and buy DVDs of us beating Liverpool.
We are consistently belittled by the press and Moyes.
I said that the club needed to change drastically if we want to still be around in 10 years.
Selling AJ and signing Saha was probably the decision that destroyed Everton.
Since when did Graeme Sharp become a spokesperson for the fans, he gets paid a lot of money to basically deny we have any problems. The main problem I've noticed is that opposition supporters no longer fear playing us, they know we're not going to score.
I have no wish to attend any more games this season, and a lot of fans feel the same way.
The substitution of Saha when we were looking good had a big effect on the game. Do we even need another match report to tell us how shit we are? NO. The players don't even deserve rating nowadays; with the exception of Baines and Hibbert, nobody gives 100%.
David Moyes is like the Mussolini of Everton ? he just distracts people from problems. He talks about having no money after spending £11 million on Billy.
I know this would be unpopular but I'd like Peter Reid, he has an excellent bond with the fans, he's passionate unlike Moyes. I remember a few years ago the players used to say they loved playing for Moyes, now the majority hate it. Arteta and Pienaar alluded to this in their interviews after they left basically saying that we have no ambition.
What annoys me is the happy clappers, the people who read Bluekipper, wear a Fellaini wig and buy DVDs of us beating Liverpool.
We are consistently belittled by the press and Moyes.
I said that the club needed to change drastically if we want to still be around in 10 years.
Selling AJ and signing Saha was probably the decision that destroyed Everton.
Since when did Graeme Sharp become a spokesperson for the fans, he gets paid a lot of money to basically deny we have any problems. The main problem I've noticed is that opposition supporters no longer fear playing us, they know we're not going to score.
I have no wish to attend any more games this season, and a lot of fans feel the same way.
Jay Harris
12 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:27:13
12 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:27:13
THe WHOLE club stinks from top to bottom.
Kenwright has created a division within the fans and a division in his management team.
KENWRIGHT OUT
Kenwright has created a division within the fans and a division in his management team.
KENWRIGHT OUT
Steve Cotton
13 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:28:19
13 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:28:19
LFC fortunes turned around when Kenny D came back and lets be honest he is no tactical genius, sometimes a change of direction and having the confidence in a new regime spring forth new life...
time to go me thinks...
time to go me thinks...
Ian Tunstead
14 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:31:52
14 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:31:52
His substitution baffled me today, I don't know what he was thinking... I thought he's either mad or a genius, literally a jaw-dropping moment. But to be fair, Saha wasn't contributing much and I thought we looked more in control and made a couple of chances immediately after making the change.
The fact is we were only beaten 1-0 away from home by a good side and by a quality finish from a quality player in the form of his life. I didn't think there was much else in it. People need to get things into perspective.
The fact is we were only beaten 1-0 away from home by a good side and by a quality finish from a quality player in the form of his life. I didn't think there was much else in it. People need to get things into perspective.
Robbie Shields
15 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:52:56
15 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:52:56
Ian mate, Arsenal had 4 or 5 one on one chances with Tim Howard in the first 45 minutes alone, but over elaborated. We should have been 4-0 down by half time. A 1-0 loss isn't something to be proud of, especially when it should have been a lot lot more. Distin for Saha was an utter utter disgrace, but par for the course as far as Moyes is concerned.
Scott Robinson
16 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:01:54
16 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:01:54
Being in business, no matter what form it is all about accountability. The fact of the matter is, we sold 2 of our best strikers in the summer for peanuts without adequate replacements and to me, given the current plight we are in, is borderline criminal. I believe these decisions were made on the back of the arrogance and bloody minded stubborness rather than logic and ability. Now, we are paying for this as it is plain for all to see. You are only as good as your last deal and for me now, enough is enough.
Gary Smith
17 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:54:20
17 Posted 10/12/2011 at 22:54:20
The perspective we need to have is that we are not a newly promoted team or in the same category as Wigan, Blackburn or West Brom who no one expects to come away from Arsenal or other "top four" clubs without much in way of shots on goal let alone any points. We have the quality to test these clubs and as such are not deluded to expect our team to give it our best shot at getting all three points, i would feel prouder to have come away having lost 4-3 or even 4-0 if we could sit back and say to ourselves we gave it our best shot.
I cannot stand by any longer and accept that our philosophy is to have everyone behind the ball and hope to nick the odd goal here and there.
Even the newly promoted teams approach their games with more confidence and attacking flair than us, although I would concede they have a certain naivety and fearlessness due to fact they probably can't believe they are playing at highest level.
Kenny D and Harry Redknapp both demonstrate very little tactical awareness when you observe their teams but both have a positive team who create chances because they take more risks with same players than previous managers.
I cannot stand by any longer and accept that our philosophy is to have everyone behind the ball and hope to nick the odd goal here and there.
Even the newly promoted teams approach their games with more confidence and attacking flair than us, although I would concede they have a certain naivety and fearlessness due to fact they probably can't believe they are playing at highest level.
Kenny D and Harry Redknapp both demonstrate very little tactical awareness when you observe their teams but both have a positive team who create chances because they take more risks with same players than previous managers.
Jimmy Sørheim
18 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:05:37
18 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:05:37
Perspective??? My perspective is that we have young hungry players waiting for a chance who are not being played, even though the established are failing badly. The Moyes I remember is more of a myth, as I seem to remember him taking chances on Vaughan, Anichebe, Gosling, Rodwell, Baxter and Rooney. He no longer dares to do that, and that is a big part of why I think he should go.
To be honest my Everton heart is breaking, my once huge love for the club (and Duncan Ferguson) is tainted the more I watch Everton these days, so I think it is time for a change. Moyes needs to go, with his head held high and the respect from our fans still intact. Otherwise I can see him ruining his own work, as he has started to do already, by selling Arteta and Yakubu, two of the most influential players during Moyes's time here.
To be honest my Everton heart is breaking, my once huge love for the club (and Duncan Ferguson) is tainted the more I watch Everton these days, so I think it is time for a change. Moyes needs to go, with his head held high and the respect from our fans still intact. Otherwise I can see him ruining his own work, as he has started to do already, by selling Arteta and Yakubu, two of the most influential players during Moyes's time here.
Paul Ferry
19 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:15:29
19 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:15:29
Fuck me: 'The fact is we were only beaten 1-0 away from home by a good side and by a quality finish from a quality player in the form of his life. I didn't think there was much else in it. People need to get things into perspective'.
Could have poured out of the ginger one's mouth. What utter fucking drivel Tunstead.
"Did well there didn't we Roundy, just 1-0, and we did some great drawing on those boards didn't we, that one you did of Distin coming on for Louis was pure class mate." "Thanks, boss"
What utter defeatist shite Tunstead. At my reckoning there are, right now, somewhere int he region of ten better teams than us and at any given moment in a game of footie something magical might happen. Utter cave-in dour sour Moyes crap. I've read short-sighted bollocks on here before Mr Tunstead, but fuck me that's got to be up there with the best bollocks.
Your defence of today is ignominious. Question for ya, IT: what will it take for you to fly the white flag one day (no, not the one you and Moyes flew today) and think that it might finally be time for the ginger dud to do one?
Could have poured out of the ginger one's mouth. What utter fucking drivel Tunstead.
"Did well there didn't we Roundy, just 1-0, and we did some great drawing on those boards didn't we, that one you did of Distin coming on for Louis was pure class mate." "Thanks, boss"
What utter defeatist shite Tunstead. At my reckoning there are, right now, somewhere int he region of ten better teams than us and at any given moment in a game of footie something magical might happen. Utter cave-in dour sour Moyes crap. I've read short-sighted bollocks on here before Mr Tunstead, but fuck me that's got to be up there with the best bollocks.
Your defence of today is ignominious. Question for ya, IT: what will it take for you to fly the white flag one day (no, not the one you and Moyes flew today) and think that it might finally be time for the ginger dud to do one?
Nick Entwistle
20 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:12:33
20 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:12:33
Saying Moyes needs a rest then praising Fergie is all a bit strange.
There's not many who are die hard Moyes supporters like myself on TW but a change may well do Everton good (though we are 10th for Christ sake) but what happens long term when the next manager still has no money? For me Moyes (though partly to blame) is the best man for the job when times are tough like these, and when/ if money comes forward then I would love to see how he does.
I don't rate any of those manager choices btw.
Why Hughes? Really? Why? He came for a pay check, he's no more an Evertonian than Materazzi. Less so.
I've heard Johan Cruyff is unhappy with his role at Ajax though!!! Hibbert does a Cruyff turn, nutmegs a defender, flicks it to Neville who slams a scissor kick into the roof of the net, and then its all into the team hot tub for good drink and sexy lady times. Love beads become high fashion in the lower Bullens.
There's not many who are die hard Moyes supporters like myself on TW but a change may well do Everton good (though we are 10th for Christ sake) but what happens long term when the next manager still has no money? For me Moyes (though partly to blame) is the best man for the job when times are tough like these, and when/ if money comes forward then I would love to see how he does.
I don't rate any of those manager choices btw.
Why Hughes? Really? Why? He came for a pay check, he's no more an Evertonian than Materazzi. Less so.
I've heard Johan Cruyff is unhappy with his role at Ajax though!!! Hibbert does a Cruyff turn, nutmegs a defender, flicks it to Neville who slams a scissor kick into the roof of the net, and then its all into the team hot tub for good drink and sexy lady times. Love beads become high fashion in the lower Bullens.
Nick Entwistle
21 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:27:43
21 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:27:43
Oh yeah, Bily is getting better and better.
Wayne Smyth
22 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:22:09
22 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:22:09
Ian, the substitution may have baffled you, but I certainly was expecting it. I'm sure something similar has happened to us in many games in the past.
Moyes simply has no belief in his players to win a game and hasn't got a fucking clue how to achieve a balance of risk-taking and keeping things tight. Today we saw for the first time in world football a new formation: 7-3-0. World class coach my arse. He should piss off now while we still have players who want to play for the club and fans who want to support it.
Moyes simply has no belief in his players to win a game and hasn't got a fucking clue how to achieve a balance of risk-taking and keeping things tight. Today we saw for the first time in world football a new formation: 7-3-0. World class coach my arse. He should piss off now while we still have players who want to play for the club and fans who want to support it.
Steve Barr
23 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:33:25
23 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:33:25
Losing 1-0 to away to Arsenal in itself is no disgrace, even though this is not a great Arsenal team at the moment, VP aside.
No, it's the culmination of a whole series of piss poor performances this season alone. Even the wins we've secured were lucky to say the least.
Not one decent performance this season as far as I'm concerned.
A change has got to come I'm afraid or we're all going down with a sinking ship!
No, it's the culmination of a whole series of piss poor performances this season alone. Even the wins we've secured were lucky to say the least.
Not one decent performance this season as far as I'm concerned.
A change has got to come I'm afraid or we're all going down with a sinking ship!
Tommy Heskrth
24 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:42:14
24 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:42:14
Ian,
How many games can you repeat your mantra? Surely even you & Doddy have a breaking point. It's not about just today it's abot the other countless times Moyes gives in even before a ball is kicked.
Say if we lose against Norwich & Swansea would you still keep the faith as the way we are playing I don't hold much hope with the new 7-3-0 formation
How many games can you repeat your mantra? Surely even you & Doddy have a breaking point. It's not about just today it's abot the other countless times Moyes gives in even before a ball is kicked.
Say if we lose against Norwich & Swansea would you still keep the faith as the way we are playing I don't hold much hope with the new 7-3-0 formation
Paul Ferry
25 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:15:29
25 Posted 10/12/2011 at 23:15:29
Fuck me: 'The fact is we were only beaten 1-0 away from home by a good side and by a quality finish from a quality player in the form of his life. I didn't think there was much else in it. People need to get things into perspective'.
Could have poured out of the ginger one's mouth. What utter fucking drivel Turnstead.
'Did well there didn't we Roundy, just 1-0, and we did some great drawing on those boards didn't we, that one you did of Distin coming on for Louis was pure class mate. Thanks boss'.
What utter defeatist shite Turnstead. At my reckoning there are, right now, somewhere int he region of ten better teams than us and at any given moment in a game of footie something magical might happen. Utter cave-in dour sour Moyes crap. I've read short-sighted bollocks on here before Mr Turnstead, but fuck me that's got to be up there with the best bollocks.
Your defence of today is ignominious. Question for ya IT: what will it take for you to fly the white flag one day (no, not the one you and Moyes flew today) and think that it might finally be time for the ginger dud to do one
Could have poured out of the ginger one's mouth. What utter fucking drivel Turnstead.
'Did well there didn't we Roundy, just 1-0, and we did some great drawing on those boards didn't we, that one you did of Distin coming on for Louis was pure class mate. Thanks boss'.
What utter defeatist shite Turnstead. At my reckoning there are, right now, somewhere int he region of ten better teams than us and at any given moment in a game of footie something magical might happen. Utter cave-in dour sour Moyes crap. I've read short-sighted bollocks on here before Mr Turnstead, but fuck me that's got to be up there with the best bollocks.
Your defence of today is ignominious. Question for ya IT: what will it take for you to fly the white flag one day (no, not the one you and Moyes flew today) and think that it might finally be time for the ginger dud to do one
David Leung
26 Posted 11/12/2011 at 00:29:25
26 Posted 11/12/2011 at 00:29:25
5 points sum up the game against Arsenal:
- Lack of ambition ? Distin for Saha.... in the 63rd minute?!
- Rely too much on the left ? or on Bainesy??! Even a kid knows how to defend against Everton, stop Bainesy!!!
- Still Cahill?! ? I can't see any contribution from him if he can't score...
- McAleny vs Stracqualursi ? If a top scorer in Argentina not good enough / better than our reserve kid, just send him back home please!!
- Offside trap?! ? we could be 3 goals down in the 1st half...
Andy Crooks
27 Posted 11/12/2011 at 00:56:43
27 Posted 11/12/2011 at 00:56:43
I believe that David Moyes will see a 1-0 defeat at Arsenal as a decent result. That is why I don't believe that he should be Everton manager.
Paul Ferry
28 Posted 11/12/2011 at 01:48:54
28 Posted 11/12/2011 at 01:48:54
Turnstead does his usual Turnstead: shows up for a single post, sputters pure fucking drivel, gets blasted, doe snot have the balls to respond to a very fair last question from me. Your mind-set is the reaosn why we are where we are today IT. Thanks.
Dalziel Kane
29 Posted 11/12/2011 at 02:09:14
29 Posted 11/12/2011 at 02:09:14
Yes, that's quite true actually in that Moyes would maybe see a 1-0 reverse in London today as 'not too bad a result', maybe someone should yell in his ear, that it was still a defeat, he probably went down there today intent on a defensive game and hope to sneak a point back to Merseyside and bore half the travelling support to death during the process.
I don't fancy an embarrassing result against the rustic inbreds of Norwich next time around, WE ARE better than them by the way, and I hope we don't see Moyes playing it cautious AGAIN and thinks that a draw would be an acceptable result, we can beat this opposition, and fuck me, let me go up there and pick the team and do the days job, and let Moyes sit in the crowd or something, I feel we'd have more chance of a result next time out.
I don't fancy an embarrassing result against the rustic inbreds of Norwich next time around, WE ARE better than them by the way, and I hope we don't see Moyes playing it cautious AGAIN and thinks that a draw would be an acceptable result, we can beat this opposition, and fuck me, let me go up there and pick the team and do the days job, and let Moyes sit in the crowd or something, I feel we'd have more chance of a result next time out.
Lee Courtliff
30 Posted 11/12/2011 at 03:21:46
30 Posted 11/12/2011 at 03:21:46
You've had a few haven't you Paul?
Lee Courtliff
31 Posted 11/12/2011 at 03:21:46
31 Posted 11/12/2011 at 03:21:46
You've had a few haven't you Paul?
Peter Barry
32 Posted 11/12/2011 at 03:51:55
32 Posted 11/12/2011 at 03:51:55
Tactics devoid Dour Davey sends out teams 'not to lose' he does not know how to win or when to make a telling substitution. He makes his substitution by the 'clock' not by the necessity he is so pedantic .
Sean McKenna
33 Posted 11/12/2011 at 06:04:07
33 Posted 11/12/2011 at 06:04:07
Gary Smith, spot-on article. The philosophy at Everton has to change -and that means Moyes must go. When's the last time you watched Everton and thought that was fucking great? Even when we win, it's a pure struggle. Never felt worse in my life following my team.
Brian Hill
34 Posted 11/12/2011 at 06:35:30
34 Posted 11/12/2011 at 06:35:30
Gerry @ 9, I disagree. Moyes looks like a zombie throughout the entire interview and at no time gives the slightest indication that he cares one way or the other.
All sports journalists ask the most banal, ridiculous questions all of the time so that is no excuse for Moyes's attitude. The original question referred to Everton's marginally better second half performance compared to the pub team showing in the first.
Moyes's response that "Arsenal are a good team" was pathetic. Presumably they were not a good team in the second half when they did not dominate so much? I wish one of these sycophantic journalists would ask a simple question like this: "They are your players, you coach them, you decide the tactics, you motivate them, why does this team look utterly incapable of winning even against the most mediocre opposition?"
Watching Everton these days is a form of torture and it is all down to David Moyes and his disgraceful "nick a point" philosophy.
As others have written, in response to the query "Who should replace him?" I agree, anyone.
The money argument is tired and pointless. This group of players is capable of much more than Moyes extracts from them. Surely it should be a pleasure and source of constant excitement to be a professional footballer? Our team looks scared, intimidated and overawed no matter the opposition.
We need a coach who will reintroduce the joy and sense of privilege that any player should feel whilst playing for this fabulous club. Moyes was once able to instill those feelings, but, sadly, no longer.
It is time for him to leave, with our thanks and appreciation. He is no longer fit to manage what I will always believe is the greatest football club in the world.
All sports journalists ask the most banal, ridiculous questions all of the time so that is no excuse for Moyes's attitude. The original question referred to Everton's marginally better second half performance compared to the pub team showing in the first.
Moyes's response that "Arsenal are a good team" was pathetic. Presumably they were not a good team in the second half when they did not dominate so much? I wish one of these sycophantic journalists would ask a simple question like this: "They are your players, you coach them, you decide the tactics, you motivate them, why does this team look utterly incapable of winning even against the most mediocre opposition?"
Watching Everton these days is a form of torture and it is all down to David Moyes and his disgraceful "nick a point" philosophy.
As others have written, in response to the query "Who should replace him?" I agree, anyone.
The money argument is tired and pointless. This group of players is capable of much more than Moyes extracts from them. Surely it should be a pleasure and source of constant excitement to be a professional footballer? Our team looks scared, intimidated and overawed no matter the opposition.
We need a coach who will reintroduce the joy and sense of privilege that any player should feel whilst playing for this fabulous club. Moyes was once able to instill those feelings, but, sadly, no longer.
It is time for him to leave, with our thanks and appreciation. He is no longer fit to manage what I will always believe is the greatest football club in the world.
Ged Simpson
35 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:13:40
35 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:13:40
Roberto Martinez
Chris Leyland
36 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:31:26
36 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:31:26
Steve Bruce
Roy Keane
Roy Evans
Mike Walker
Ameilia Lily
Roy Keane
Roy Evans
Mike Walker
Ameilia Lily
Michael Winstanley
37 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:40:01
37 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:40:01
@ Nick 20
Love beads in the Lower Bullens??? never in my life!
But hell yeah to some sexy football and some Dutch attitude to playing the game.
Love beads in the Lower Bullens??? never in my life!
But hell yeah to some sexy football and some Dutch attitude to playing the game.
Kevin Elliott
38 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:40:57
38 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:40:57
Paul Lambert
Adrian Seal
39 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:45:40
39 Posted 11/12/2011 at 09:45:40
I notice last seasons clamour for Owen Coyle to be installed as our next manager has subsided! I can't believe I'm seeing the likes of Brendan Rogers, Ian Holloway and Roberto Martinez mentioned as potential managers now...sheer madness!
Phil Martin
40 Posted 11/12/2011 at 10:36:46
40 Posted 11/12/2011 at 10:36:46
Totally right, @39.
The fact is by the end of the season we'll probably be 8th. Which is absolutely the highest position we can possibly expect. Since managers are hired and fired purely on results- the end justifies the means.
Yes our football is poor but Moyes delivers a league placing we have no right to expect given the state of the club. That is why he is paid well and until Holloway, Rodgers, Coyle, Bruce, et al can match Moyes' league placings then its bollocks to say Moyes has run out of ideas.
The issue is that the club has run out of assets to strip.
The fact is by the end of the season we'll probably be 8th. Which is absolutely the highest position we can possibly expect. Since managers are hired and fired purely on results- the end justifies the means.
Yes our football is poor but Moyes delivers a league placing we have no right to expect given the state of the club. That is why he is paid well and until Holloway, Rodgers, Coyle, Bruce, et al can match Moyes' league placings then its bollocks to say Moyes has run out of ideas.
The issue is that the club has run out of assets to strip.
David Flanagan
41 Posted 11/12/2011 at 10:46:34
41 Posted 11/12/2011 at 10:46:34
I was a supporter of Moyes because I always thought he got the best out of the limited resources and even more limited players at his disposal. The football has never been great but the results came and he never once moaned about injuries, lack of money etc.
Fast forward to this season especially and all you hear off Moyes is "they've got more money", "taking a knife into a gunfight" etc. His negativity is killing us and the players and fans look lost. His decisions baffle us and serve no purpose.
TIME TO GO
Fast forward to this season especially and all you hear off Moyes is "they've got more money", "taking a knife into a gunfight" etc. His negativity is killing us and the players and fans look lost. His decisions baffle us and serve no purpose.
TIME TO GO
Andrew Rimmer
42 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:04:02
42 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:04:02
Phil, I think your estimate of 8th is wway over the mark. I can tell you now that Swasea AND Norwich will take points off us. I even feel that Tamworth will be in the 4th round of the cup. We have not deserved one victory this season, all were done by luck. I was saddened when O'Niel took over at Sunderland as I knew that the best man for the job was now off limits, and why would the likes of Adkins and Lambert leave better clubs to come to Goodison. I have probably only said "We were fantastic today" 10 times in the last 10 years. Even our lofty 4th placing was on the back of such negative displays that were embarrassing. My son loksat me in disbelief when i tell him that I once saw a striker score his 30th goal of the season! I now cringe while watching MOTD, it's a sad sad situation!
Gary Smith
43 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:11:05
43 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:11:05
I know everyone has a right to their opinion but i can't understand why anyone in the right mind would accept the current state.
Forget all the investment and board arguments these do not have to directly influence what happens on the pitch. Moyes job is to motivate and set the team up how he wants to play, therefore he is the only person responsible.
I would take a lower league position playing attacking football over the current sh/te anyday. I no longer have a season ticket or go the match because im not excited to watch my beloved blues, I can second guess the tactics and uber defensive setup, I know we will have plenty of possession without threatening, I know we will rely completely on Baines to supply excellent crosses to no one (not Baines fault if no one wants to chance a run in the box), I know jags will attempt a number of diagonal cross field balls to the two smallest players on the pitch (Coleman and Osman), I know the midfield can only pass backward when the get within 30 yards of the opposition box (must be a specific tactic of Moyes), I know our best creative outlets on the wing will be helping out the full backs defend against just one player instead of trying to stretch the play up field, I know Cahill will be 100% commited but only succeed to slow up the play, I know Saha will always insist on the ball to his feet but when he receives it it's usually at head height or in the channel, I know when Saha does recieve it to feet he will not have any support players within 20-30 yards of him as theyve all been in our half defending the last attack, I could go on and on....
The simple fact is the fans are voting with their feet an not going the home games. Evertonians are patient and we appreciate Moyes work to date but I want to go the game with some optimisum of us trying to attack and win. I want Moyes and the players to play with a bit more freedom and take a few more risks, I want to see entertaining football, I want to see Moyes take some responsibility and recognise he is the problem and either step up to the task in hand or set away and let someone else have a go.
We should not expect any less NSNO
Forget all the investment and board arguments these do not have to directly influence what happens on the pitch. Moyes job is to motivate and set the team up how he wants to play, therefore he is the only person responsible.
I would take a lower league position playing attacking football over the current sh/te anyday. I no longer have a season ticket or go the match because im not excited to watch my beloved blues, I can second guess the tactics and uber defensive setup, I know we will have plenty of possession without threatening, I know we will rely completely on Baines to supply excellent crosses to no one (not Baines fault if no one wants to chance a run in the box), I know jags will attempt a number of diagonal cross field balls to the two smallest players on the pitch (Coleman and Osman), I know the midfield can only pass backward when the get within 30 yards of the opposition box (must be a specific tactic of Moyes), I know our best creative outlets on the wing will be helping out the full backs defend against just one player instead of trying to stretch the play up field, I know Cahill will be 100% commited but only succeed to slow up the play, I know Saha will always insist on the ball to his feet but when he receives it it's usually at head height or in the channel, I know when Saha does recieve it to feet he will not have any support players within 20-30 yards of him as theyve all been in our half defending the last attack, I could go on and on....
The simple fact is the fans are voting with their feet an not going the home games. Evertonians are patient and we appreciate Moyes work to date but I want to go the game with some optimisum of us trying to attack and win. I want Moyes and the players to play with a bit more freedom and take a few more risks, I want to see entertaining football, I want to see Moyes take some responsibility and recognise he is the problem and either step up to the task in hand or set away and let someone else have a go.
We should not expect any less NSNO
Ryan Holroyd
44 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:32:14
44 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:32:14
I think it's a bit arrogant of people to believe people like Paul Lambert, Nigel Adkins, Martin O'Neill (he'll have money to spend at Sunderland) would actually come to Everton in its present state.
Looking at the accounts, it appears we need to sell £15million worth of assets, players just to break even.
Now, as far as I can see, we have the smallest squad of players in the Premier League so selling further players seems futile.
Forget History for a moment, Why would managers come to Everton in its present state knowing they have to sell players from a small squad?
Looking at the accounts, it appears we need to sell £15million worth of assets, players just to break even.
Now, as far as I can see, we have the smallest squad of players in the Premier League so selling further players seems futile.
Forget History for a moment, Why would managers come to Everton in its present state knowing they have to sell players from a small squad?
Gavin Ramejkis
45 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:38:07
45 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:38:07
Phil #40 9 defeats in 11 games and the last two games one shot on target in over 180 minutes of football and a manager who must be the only person of the face of the Earth who thought Everton were on "the ascendency" against Arsenal and more likely to score who actually took the only striker we had on and replaced him with a centre half. Just how the fuck would we be likely to score from open play with a centre half?
Its painful to watch and all to easy to predict this surrender monkey before a ball has been kicked and it doesn't take Kenshite giving me £56k a week to tell you it either.
Its painful to watch and all to easy to predict this surrender monkey before a ball has been kicked and it doesn't take Kenshite giving me £56k a week to tell you it either.
Phil Martin
46 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:39:50
46 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:39:50
Andrew, we will finish top half and I believe 8th or 9th. Which is precisely where we belong. You think Tamworth will beat us? Please let's keep things in perspective.
I can't believe you were "embarrassed" at our 4th place finish. I was delighted. Get a grip. Oh and only 2-3 clubs in the PL play great football all year round, and they have money to buy the right players who can do that.
Gary, of course investment and board room matters effect things on the pitch. If we were able to keep Arteta, Pienaar and Lescott plus buy a replacement for Yak. We would be playing much better football AND higher up the table. The fans are staying away because our fate is sealed before a ball is kicked in August. Top half finish and the sale of a big player. That's not Moyes' fault. Yes our football is poor and we dont attack. But if at the end of the season we are top 8 or 9 then its job done for Moyes. Or would you rather a Holloway kamikaze approach? I'm sure we'd get plenty of patronising sympathy for getting relegated "but being a breath of fresh air".
Fuck blaming solely Moyes for our situation, blame the guys who are dismantling the club year by year.
I can't believe you were "embarrassed" at our 4th place finish. I was delighted. Get a grip. Oh and only 2-3 clubs in the PL play great football all year round, and they have money to buy the right players who can do that.
Gary, of course investment and board room matters effect things on the pitch. If we were able to keep Arteta, Pienaar and Lescott plus buy a replacement for Yak. We would be playing much better football AND higher up the table. The fans are staying away because our fate is sealed before a ball is kicked in August. Top half finish and the sale of a big player. That's not Moyes' fault. Yes our football is poor and we dont attack. But if at the end of the season we are top 8 or 9 then its job done for Moyes. Or would you rather a Holloway kamikaze approach? I'm sure we'd get plenty of patronising sympathy for getting relegated "but being a breath of fresh air".
Fuck blaming solely Moyes for our situation, blame the guys who are dismantling the club year by year.
Phil Martin
47 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:57:27
47 Posted 11/12/2011 at 11:57:27
But Gavin the bigger picture is that almost every year we finish pretty much as high as we could expect. So if the football is poor and predictable for half the season, then on a transfer budget unable to compete with clubs such as Stoke and Wigan. Then so be it.
Moyes and every other manager are paid to get their respective clubs as high as possible. Playing decent football is a bonus and secondary. At no point however have I suggested our football is good, just judge us at the end of a season.
Now if we were to finish bottom 6 Moyes would be in a spot of bother but I'm confident (just look at the last x years) we'll recover and finish closer to the top. Precisely why Moyes is paid well.
Moyes and every other manager are paid to get their respective clubs as high as possible. Playing decent football is a bonus and secondary. At no point however have I suggested our football is good, just judge us at the end of a season.
Now if we were to finish bottom 6 Moyes would be in a spot of bother but I'm confident (just look at the last x years) we'll recover and finish closer to the top. Precisely why Moyes is paid well.
Ian Tunstead
48 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:23:30
48 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:23:30
Paul, you must have me mixed up with someone else because i always try to repsond to all questions put to me, it was late in the night so i do need to get some sleep in from time to time and i do have a life so i cant spend 24hours on toffeeweb as much as i would like to. Also when i have been asked 10 questions by 10 different people i am not going to have the time to go through them all to be fair.
Michael Winstanley
49 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:03:43
49 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:03:43
Can you imagine life after selling our better players, players who have ambition?
If Jags, Baines, Fellaini or Rodwell decided to leave, the money would be used to pay the banks with little money for Moyes.
Think how poor our football would be with younger players coming with our old/past it types...i think our football could get a lot worse under Moyes. We've not hit rock bottom yet but it's on the way.
If Jags, Baines, Fellaini or Rodwell decided to leave, the money would be used to pay the banks with little money for Moyes.
Think how poor our football would be with younger players coming with our old/past it types...i think our football could get a lot worse under Moyes. We've not hit rock bottom yet but it's on the way.
Ian Tunstead
50 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:36:50
50 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:36:50
In answer to your question, I already answered a similar question a couple of days ago from Roman on the thread "a new approach" so I will just quote some of it for you. "The day I will stop backing the manager is the day David Moyes has money to spend on a similar level to say Spurs, Villa or Liverpool and he doesn't compete with them. If he has world class players on the bench and he is still playing Osman on the wing consistently then he will lose my support."
The difference between 3 points and 0 points is having a match winner like RVP or Suarez or Rooney or Aguaro. We need a minimum of £20m to have any chance of getting that kind of quality striker to be able to compete with the top teams.
The difference between 3 points and 0 points is having a match winner like RVP or Suarez or Rooney or Aguaro. We need a minimum of £20m to have any chance of getting that kind of quality striker to be able to compete with the top teams.
Ian Tunstead
51 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:42:05
51 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:42:05
same answer for you Tommy.
Andrew Rimmer
52 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:48:48
52 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:48:48
Tell me of a top striker who would want to join Everton Ian!
Gary Smith
53 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:58:55
53 Posted 11/12/2011 at 12:58:55
Ian, I think you and Moyes are deluded if you think all our problems lie in a proven goal scorer, even if we had Aguero or Suarez in our team we still need to create chances and opportunities for them.
Moyes has had money but I don't think he's spent it wisely. £15m on Felliani, £11m on Billy, £11m on Yakubu. This isn't loose change for any club.
Even Messi would struggle to score in our team if we played him instead of Saha, he would have the same issue which is there is no attacking tactics, no one making runs to drag players out of position and no one supporting the strikers in the final 1/3 if the pitch.
I just want to see more than one person in the box when a cross comes in from Baines or movement
when we do get into the final 1/3. If this comes from Moyes then I will support him, this is not rocket science ad doesn't mean we open ourselves at the back, we just need more inventiveness. Just give the players a bit more freedom and let's see what happens...I believe we'd see a different team.
Moyes has had money but I don't think he's spent it wisely. £15m on Felliani, £11m on Billy, £11m on Yakubu. This isn't loose change for any club.
Even Messi would struggle to score in our team if we played him instead of Saha, he would have the same issue which is there is no attacking tactics, no one making runs to drag players out of position and no one supporting the strikers in the final 1/3 if the pitch.
I just want to see more than one person in the box when a cross comes in from Baines or movement
when we do get into the final 1/3. If this comes from Moyes then I will support him, this is not rocket science ad doesn't mean we open ourselves at the back, we just need more inventiveness. Just give the players a bit more freedom and let's see what happens...I believe we'd see a different team.
Ian Tunstead
54 Posted 11/12/2011 at 13:11:18
54 Posted 11/12/2011 at 13:11:18
Exactly Andrew, the only thing we can hope for is that we produce another Rooney or that Moyes can find a bargain for a few million. Either that or we would need a billionaire take over.
That is the same problem all teams will have outside of the money clubs. The only thing we can realistically hope for is to finish as high up in the league as possible and go on a good cup run by hoping the draw is kind to us.
No manager will make things any different only a new owner with some money.
That is the same problem all teams will have outside of the money clubs. The only thing we can realistically hope for is to finish as high up in the league as possible and go on a good cup run by hoping the draw is kind to us.
No manager will make things any different only a new owner with some money.
Ian Tunstead
55 Posted 11/12/2011 at 13:16:24
55 Posted 11/12/2011 at 13:16:24
I dont agree Gary, the very top strikers dont need to have chances created for them. They create chances themselves or turn half chances into goals, a bit like RVP against us. I think £15 for Fellaini is a decent buy, £11m for yak is only average money for a striker so expect and everage striker or a decent striker but with some add on issues. Bily didnt work out but not every signing does, its the same with every team but i could name far more good signings than bad signings.
Andrew Clare
56 Posted 11/12/2011 at 13:29:03
56 Posted 11/12/2011 at 13:29:03
Too many people are measuring Moyes's performance against the Walter Smith days as though those days represented where Everton were at always.
This is not true. Twenty odd years ago we were as big a club as anyone in the Premier League in fact we had won the league title more times than Arsenal or Man Utd at that point in time.
Now look at the situation Arsenal are playing CL football consistently year in year out in a 60,000 capacity stadium, while we are satisfied with a manager who plays dour defensive football, a chairman who has practically let the club go to ruin and a once great stadium that looks like something from yesteryear. Get rid of all of them quickly.
As a closing note someone on here actually thinks that we will still finish eighth! Talk about deluded!
This is not true. Twenty odd years ago we were as big a club as anyone in the Premier League in fact we had won the league title more times than Arsenal or Man Utd at that point in time.
Now look at the situation Arsenal are playing CL football consistently year in year out in a 60,000 capacity stadium, while we are satisfied with a manager who plays dour defensive football, a chairman who has practically let the club go to ruin and a once great stadium that looks like something from yesteryear. Get rid of all of them quickly.
As a closing note someone on here actually thinks that we will still finish eighth! Talk about deluded!
Ian Tunstead
57 Posted 11/12/2011 at 14:34:47
57 Posted 11/12/2011 at 14:34:47
You are all deluded if you think a manager can take over from Moyes and do better than Man Utd Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs or Chelsea.
7th is the best we could ever hope for, 8th if we are lucky, most likley 9th or 10th. Without money we will continue to go backwards year after year and there is nothing any other manager could do about it. That is the sad reality. Every manager will end up the same way as Moyes, a broken shell.
7th is the best we could ever hope for, 8th if we are lucky, most likley 9th or 10th. Without money we will continue to go backwards year after year and there is nothing any other manager could do about it. That is the sad reality. Every manager will end up the same way as Moyes, a broken shell.
Gavin Ramejkis
58 Posted 11/12/2011 at 14:41:40
58 Posted 11/12/2011 at 14:41:40
Phil #45 Moyes simply doesnt have a sqad capable of playing his one trick 4-5-1 and as many have said we switched in the Arsenal game 7-3-0 with the manager claiming we were close to scoring, do you really accept that as an acceptable thing for a manager to do?
Its going to soon become a situation of we will remain in the league not through there being three worse sides than us but at least 6 or 7, if we cant even gain a draw we will quickly run out of time and breathing space to gain enough points to stay up.
Do you genuinely expect any points from the return fixtures against Chelsea, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool? Add to those games we looked incredibly poor in such as QPR and Stoke and right there you have 21 points.
Its going to soon become a situation of we will remain in the league not through there being three worse sides than us but at least 6 or 7, if we cant even gain a draw we will quickly run out of time and breathing space to gain enough points to stay up.
Do you genuinely expect any points from the return fixtures against Chelsea, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool? Add to those games we looked incredibly poor in such as QPR and Stoke and right there you have 21 points.
Paul Ferry
59 Posted 11/12/2011 at 15:30:14
59 Posted 11/12/2011 at 15:30:14
Fair dues, Ian ? measured response, but all of that is a few years away, don't you think, and I don't know how long this dire and dour stuff can go on. Also, I rather suspect that new owners might not, after all, back Moyes, and give him this pot of gold to judge him by. And his record in the market is at best 50-50.
I agree that Fella is a good buy, but there's not much else to shout about (Arteta aside) than bargain hunting in footie league basements. So, we must make do with what we have right now, and a breath of fresh air in the manager's chair sounds good to me right now, except that why do we continue to arrogantly believe that Paul Lambert, for one, or Roberto Martinez, for another, would take the risk (or indeed be attracted by) a move to a once great club that is now hard up and down on luck, with a negative, miserable looking carrot-head pulling the strings?
We must have all the attractiveness of ace utility player Alan Harper or gorgeous deadly dark Martin Keown to anyone looking in from the outside.
I agree that Fella is a good buy, but there's not much else to shout about (Arteta aside) than bargain hunting in footie league basements. So, we must make do with what we have right now, and a breath of fresh air in the manager's chair sounds good to me right now, except that why do we continue to arrogantly believe that Paul Lambert, for one, or Roberto Martinez, for another, would take the risk (or indeed be attracted by) a move to a once great club that is now hard up and down on luck, with a negative, miserable looking carrot-head pulling the strings?
We must have all the attractiveness of ace utility player Alan Harper or gorgeous deadly dark Martin Keown to anyone looking in from the outside.
Paul Ferry
60 Posted 11/12/2011 at 15:30:14
60 Posted 11/12/2011 at 15:30:14
Fair dues Ian - measured response, but all of that is a few years away, don't you think, and I don't know how long this dire and dour stuff can go on. Also, I rather suspect that new owners might not, after all, back Moyes, and give him this pot of gold to judge him by. And his record in the market is at best 50-50. I agree that Fella is a good buy, but there's not much else to shout about (teta aside) than bargain hunting in footie league basements. So, we must make do with what we have right now, and a breath of fresh air in the manager's chair sounds good to me right now, except that why do we continue to arrogantly believe that Paul Lambert, for one, or Roberto Martinez, for another, would take the risk (or indeed be attracted by) a move to a once great club that is now hard up and down on luck, with a negative, miserable looking carrot-head pulling the strings. We must have all the attractiveness of ace utility player Alan Harper or gorgeous deadly dark Martin Keown to anyone looking in from the outside.
Andrew Rimmer
61 Posted 11/12/2011 at 17:40:15
61 Posted 11/12/2011 at 17:40:15
You missed my point, Ian. No striker in their right mind would want to play for a Moyes team!
Ian Tunstead
62 Posted 11/12/2011 at 19:08:15
62 Posted 11/12/2011 at 19:08:15
But you are wrong Andrew when you look at the facts.
Wayne Rooney became the youngest England International player in history while playing for Moyes.
Marcus Bent, MARCUS BENT! must have had the season of his life finishing 4th while at Everton and sold for profit with help from the use of big dunc being used well from the bench.
James McFadden increased his value by about 6 times the amount we signed him for and has even come back because he enjoyed it so much.
Andy Johnson must have also had one of the best spells of his career, and was even sold for profit.
Yakubu scored over 20 goals in his first season and then went shite like he does at every club after a couple of seasons.
Saha has done well for an aging crock.
And Vellios has looked promising.
Vaughn did very well only for his injuries.
Anichebe is never a prem standard player but what do you expect from a free academy player?
Only Beattie dissapointed in my eyes
Wayne Rooney became the youngest England International player in history while playing for Moyes.
Marcus Bent, MARCUS BENT! must have had the season of his life finishing 4th while at Everton and sold for profit with help from the use of big dunc being used well from the bench.
James McFadden increased his value by about 6 times the amount we signed him for and has even come back because he enjoyed it so much.
Andy Johnson must have also had one of the best spells of his career, and was even sold for profit.
Yakubu scored over 20 goals in his first season and then went shite like he does at every club after a couple of seasons.
Saha has done well for an aging crock.
And Vellios has looked promising.
Vaughn did very well only for his injuries.
Anichebe is never a prem standard player but what do you expect from a free academy player?
Only Beattie dissapointed in my eyes
Ian Tunstead
63 Posted 11/12/2011 at 19:26:24
63 Posted 11/12/2011 at 19:26:24
And we got 10 goals of of Beckford and made a decent profit out of him.
Ian Tunstead
64 Posted 11/12/2011 at 19:47:29
64 Posted 11/12/2011 at 19:47:29
Paul we don?t have any new owner but if we do get some one in let them make the decision on whether Moyes should stay or go. I disagree that his record is 50-50 at best. Off the top of my head, the only bad signings Moyes has made in 10 years are Simon Davis , Krouldop, Bily, Beattie, AVM and Richard Wright. Perhaps Yakubu considering the money we lost on him. That is not 50% the players Everton have signed.
?there's not much else to shout about (teta aside) than bargain hunting in footie league basements.?
What do you expect Moyes to do with the small change he is usually given to spend? He has to look for bargains. What about pienaar, Cahill Jaggs Baines Lescott Howard, Martyn, arnt they something to shout about?
What has Martinez done exactly, he is an awful manager who has undone all of Steve Bruce?s good work. Look what happened to Bruce recently so what chance would Martinez have at a bigger club?
?there's not much else to shout about (teta aside) than bargain hunting in footie league basements.?
What do you expect Moyes to do with the small change he is usually given to spend? He has to look for bargains. What about pienaar, Cahill Jaggs Baines Lescott Howard, Martyn, arnt they something to shout about?
What has Martinez done exactly, he is an awful manager who has undone all of Steve Bruce?s good work. Look what happened to Bruce recently so what chance would Martinez have at a bigger club?
Wayne Smyth
65 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:09:11
65 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:09:11
Ian, people don't expect Moyes to beat the likes of City, Utd or Arsenal.
However I think its entirely fair for fans to expect us to compete and not wave the white flag after 60 minutes and play with 7 defenders on the pitch like we've no fucking right to grace the same field as Arsenal.
We'll play exactly the same negative shit against almost any opposition home or away.
10 years ago Moyes had no money to spend and still had the belief and energy to turn us into a 4th place side. Today Moyes again has no money, but crucially he's looked without belief and confidence to raise expectations like he used to. Doesn't that worry you?
However I think its entirely fair for fans to expect us to compete and not wave the white flag after 60 minutes and play with 7 defenders on the pitch like we've no fucking right to grace the same field as Arsenal.
We'll play exactly the same negative shit against almost any opposition home or away.
10 years ago Moyes had no money to spend and still had the belief and energy to turn us into a 4th place side. Today Moyes again has no money, but crucially he's looked without belief and confidence to raise expectations like he used to. Doesn't that worry you?
Ian Tunstead
66 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:32:03
66 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:32:03
Wayne, I was as baffled as everyone else when Distin came on but his options were a top class proven Prem player who happend to be a defender or some kids who are reserve players who are probably not even Championship standard. Moyes is the one who see's them everyday in training to make that judgement.
I thought we did compete the entire game, as I say we only lost 1-0 to a quality goal from a quality player.
Things have changed from 10 years ago, there was a slight chance we could break the top 4 then but now Man City have ended that possability all together. Of course Moyes looks without of belief because he understands the reality of the situation i think anyone in his shoes would feel exactly the same as Moyes. Of course it worries me but the fact is no manager will do any better without money and the quality players that money buys.
You can bring in Martinez or Holloway or some other manager with a reputation for attacking or attractive football but we will end up in the same situation they are in now, either in the Championship or fighting relegation at the bottom of the prem.
The only hope is to produce another top talent, enjoy it while it lasts and sell for big money so we can re-build another teeam to help us compete in the top half of the table for another 5-8 years.
Very sad but until FIFA or the PL sort this joke of a league out, it will be the same 4 or 5 team competing for everything.
I thought we did compete the entire game, as I say we only lost 1-0 to a quality goal from a quality player.
Things have changed from 10 years ago, there was a slight chance we could break the top 4 then but now Man City have ended that possability all together. Of course Moyes looks without of belief because he understands the reality of the situation i think anyone in his shoes would feel exactly the same as Moyes. Of course it worries me but the fact is no manager will do any better without money and the quality players that money buys.
You can bring in Martinez or Holloway or some other manager with a reputation for attacking or attractive football but we will end up in the same situation they are in now, either in the Championship or fighting relegation at the bottom of the prem.
The only hope is to produce another top talent, enjoy it while it lasts and sell for big money so we can re-build another teeam to help us compete in the top half of the table for another 5-8 years.
Very sad but until FIFA or the PL sort this joke of a league out, it will be the same 4 or 5 team competing for everything.
Colin Wainwright
67 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:41:48
67 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:41:48
Ian, whatever the rights and wrongs of your post #62, I have to say that your ability to re-write history is astounding. For every reason you give to back-up DMs credentials as the strikers friend, there is an equal and opposite reason as to how he has ruined those exact same players.
Simply stating half-arsed, half-baked beliefs does not make them true, man.
Simply stating half-arsed, half-baked beliefs does not make them true, man.
Robbie Muldoon
68 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:49:19
68 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:49:19
I have criticised Moyes since around 2005, he hasn't changed since then. He has always been like this, the only difference between then and recently is, credit where it's due, he had assembled a very good squad (Arteta, Lescott, Cahill, Jags, Pienaar, AJ, etc) ? certainly one of the best in the league. So we had the players to craft a result on the back of the dour, uninspiring tactics Moyes only knows. The difference now is those players have all gone, and we are devoid of the creative attacking players who can snatch a result on the back of Moyes encircle the caravan mentality.
The blame for this season is squarely with the inept board. The finances are a joke and if Moyes is as ambitious as he makes out to be he would have walked away citing unworkable circumstances. But no, Moyes has got one of the highest paid and safest jobs in the managerial world.
We still have decent resources playerwise, but I feel David Moyes doesn't see it that way and has developed a deep apathy about the club's current plight. Couple that with the poor tactical nouse he has always had and what we have is the state of Everton today.
The blame for this season is squarely with the inept board. The finances are a joke and if Moyes is as ambitious as he makes out to be he would have walked away citing unworkable circumstances. But no, Moyes has got one of the highest paid and safest jobs in the managerial world.
We still have decent resources playerwise, but I feel David Moyes doesn't see it that way and has developed a deep apathy about the club's current plight. Couple that with the poor tactical nouse he has always had and what we have is the state of Everton today.
Seamus Murphy
69 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:56:46
69 Posted 11/12/2011 at 21:56:46
Ian ? Do you not think your assumption that no manager could do better than Moyes is just a tad ridiculous?
Also you assert that if we had Holloway or Martinez we would be relegated!! How could you possibly know that? The players they have/had at Blackpool and Wigan are/were not in the same league as our squad. How many £10 or £15M players are in the Wigan squad? And Holloway was managing a team with a £12k salary cap ffs!
Now I'm not saying that either of these are what we need at our club but for you to proclaim that we would be relegated under them is nonsense. And to assume nobody in the game of football could do better than Moyes is just simply wrong.
Also you assert that if we had Holloway or Martinez we would be relegated!! How could you possibly know that? The players they have/had at Blackpool and Wigan are/were not in the same league as our squad. How many £10 or £15M players are in the Wigan squad? And Holloway was managing a team with a £12k salary cap ffs!
Now I'm not saying that either of these are what we need at our club but for you to proclaim that we would be relegated under them is nonsense. And to assume nobody in the game of football could do better than Moyes is just simply wrong.
Robbie Muldoon
70 Posted 11/12/2011 at 22:21:51
70 Posted 11/12/2011 at 22:21:51
We support EFC not MOYESIE!
James Stewart
71 Posted 11/12/2011 at 22:21:09
71 Posted 11/12/2011 at 22:21:09
Why does every anti-Moyes article have to start with praise for him? Gets Boring!!
I agree it's time to change and has been for a good while though!
Shame about your picks to succeed him wouldn't want any of them muppets to take over!!!
Doesn't anybody watch any football outside the overrated EPL! There are some really good managers out there we could go for over the piss poor Hughes, Martinez etc.
I agree it's time to change and has been for a good while though!
Shame about your picks to succeed him wouldn't want any of them muppets to take over!!!
Doesn't anybody watch any football outside the overrated EPL! There are some really good managers out there we could go for over the piss poor Hughes, Martinez etc.
Robbie Muldoon
72 Posted 11/12/2011 at 22:30:19
72 Posted 11/12/2011 at 22:30:19
Amen James
Ian Tunstead
73 Posted 11/12/2011 at 23:05:20
73 Posted 11/12/2011 at 23:05:20
Colin, you are right, there are two sides to every story, some people choose to be negative and like to criticise at every opportunity; that's fair enough but I am the opposite. I have a more positive outlook and so my opinion is influenced by that but, for a decent discussion, it's only right that both sides of the argument are put out there. I don't think I have have re-written history, I have stated some facts and some of my honest opinion.
Ian Tunstead
74 Posted 11/12/2011 at 23:14:48
74 Posted 11/12/2011 at 23:14:48
Seamus, yes i do think my assumtion is slightly rediculous, perhaps Pulis could finish higher up the table with his long ball philosophy but i dont think i would want to watch that, i would rather have someone like Moyes who has at least tried to assemble some talanted footballers and create a decent side. Either way Moyes has proven time and time again that he is best of the rest for 10 years, you cant fluke that, so my coments are not completely rediculous.
"Also you assert that if we had holloway or Martinez we would be relegated!! How could you possibly know that?"
I know that because Moyes took over an Everton side just as poor as the Blackpool side and Wigan and took us to 4th place in the league, and consistant top 6 finishes after that. He bought the right players for little money who's vale grew and so it is thanks to Moyes that we have or had some £10m-£15m players.
Wigan on the other hand had/have players like Palacious and Valencia and Moses and Rodiega worth £15m-£20m but Wigan are still at the foot of the table.
The facts are these sorts of managers are mentioned every year and every single time they are sacked or relegated within a couple of years and Moyes continues to finish just outside the teams who spend the big money, even up against sides like Villa who have had decent money and a decent manager in O'Niel.
I am not saying no one could do better than Moyes because he is the best manager out there i am saying 7th is as good as any team or any manager could do when up against Man Utd Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal, because there are 6 teams spending far more money with far better players available. If you are lucky you might finish above 1 or 2 of these teams on a rare occasion but that is no good, it has to be top 4 in order to get a chance of CL money. Moyes is the best and only proven option.
"Also you assert that if we had holloway or Martinez we would be relegated!! How could you possibly know that?"
I know that because Moyes took over an Everton side just as poor as the Blackpool side and Wigan and took us to 4th place in the league, and consistant top 6 finishes after that. He bought the right players for little money who's vale grew and so it is thanks to Moyes that we have or had some £10m-£15m players.
Wigan on the other hand had/have players like Palacious and Valencia and Moses and Rodiega worth £15m-£20m but Wigan are still at the foot of the table.
The facts are these sorts of managers are mentioned every year and every single time they are sacked or relegated within a couple of years and Moyes continues to finish just outside the teams who spend the big money, even up against sides like Villa who have had decent money and a decent manager in O'Niel.
I am not saying no one could do better than Moyes because he is the best manager out there i am saying 7th is as good as any team or any manager could do when up against Man Utd Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal, because there are 6 teams spending far more money with far better players available. If you are lucky you might finish above 1 or 2 of these teams on a rare occasion but that is no good, it has to be top 4 in order to get a chance of CL money. Moyes is the best and only proven option.
Seamus Murphy
75 Posted 11/12/2011 at 23:36:36
75 Posted 11/12/2011 at 23:36:36
Ian - I respect your opinion but you are twisting things to suit your argument and are not compring like with like.
My reference to £10-£15M players was players Moyes bought, like Fellaini £15M, Bily £10m, Yakubu £11m - Holloway or Martinez had nothing like amounts like these to buy players - they both had fuck all to spend compared to Moyes so you are not comparing like with like when you compare their results. I accept you may say Moyes has not had that money at his disposal for a while but he still has £10-£15M players in his team, that is the point. And he is not getting the best from them.
You also seem to think that only the amount of money spent can determine the order the league placings will finish yet point to the success moyes had in finishing 4th with a poor, low value squad when he took over - can't you see the irony in that?
Why can't it be done again? Moyes believed it could be done then and he built a team spirit that had his players believing it also. But he has clearly lost that belief now - and his constant negative interviews and talking down of our chances is leading to a self fulfilling prophecy each week ( knife to a gunfight, don't think we can score at Arsenal etc.).
It's time for somebody to come in and reinvigorate this squad and this club in general. It's time for change.
My reference to £10-£15M players was players Moyes bought, like Fellaini £15M, Bily £10m, Yakubu £11m - Holloway or Martinez had nothing like amounts like these to buy players - they both had fuck all to spend compared to Moyes so you are not comparing like with like when you compare their results. I accept you may say Moyes has not had that money at his disposal for a while but he still has £10-£15M players in his team, that is the point. And he is not getting the best from them.
You also seem to think that only the amount of money spent can determine the order the league placings will finish yet point to the success moyes had in finishing 4th with a poor, low value squad when he took over - can't you see the irony in that?
Why can't it be done again? Moyes believed it could be done then and he built a team spirit that had his players believing it also. But he has clearly lost that belief now - and his constant negative interviews and talking down of our chances is leading to a self fulfilling prophecy each week ( knife to a gunfight, don't think we can score at Arsenal etc.).
It's time for somebody to come in and reinvigorate this squad and this club in general. It's time for change.
Ian Tunstead
76 Posted 12/12/2011 at 01:23:00
76 Posted 12/12/2011 at 01:23:00
Seamus, Moyes earned the wright to buy a £15m Fellaini because he made that money from buying and then selling at a profit Andy Johnson for £10m and £5m for McFadden, he earned the wright to spend £10m on Bily because that is the money he made from buying and selling Lescott.
You might say he got lucky having the Rooney money but that is just about the only money he has been given in the 10 years he has been here to keep the club afloat which went towards buying the likes of Yak. £25m is not a lot over 10 years but most of it has been re-invested wisely and profits have been made to keep improving the side. It now appears to have dried up. I bet Wigan have had just as much as that to spend over the last 10 years.
"You also seem to think that only the amount of money spent can determine the order the league placings will finish yet point to the success Moyes had in finishing 4th with a poor, low value squad when he took over ? can't you see the irony in that?"
You are absolutely right, that is the huge whole in my arguement, I am not being patronising but well done for pointing that out as you are only the second person in all the years I have been coming on this site to flip my argument on its head for contradicting myself.
I dont know how Moyes did what he did to finish 4th, as far as I am concerned that was a miracle and the moment when football proved to me anything is possible, because I honestly thought we were going to be relegated at the start of that season. But at the same time there was no Man City billions to deal with which left a slight opening for the 4th spot. But that is all the more reason why Moyes needs to stay he has proven he can get the best out of his side, more so than any other manager in the league relative to the money they spend.
Who else has matched or had a similar achievement in the last 20 years? I can only think of Newcastle with Bobby Robson who was sacked because they thought he had taken them as far as he could... What a terrible decision that turned out to be. George Burley with Ipswich but they were relegated the next season and didn't have to worry about Chelsea or Man City's Billions. We all know what happend to Leeds they spent millions more than they had and ended up in the 2nd division somewhere. Finally and most recently Harry Redknapp, who had a very expensively assemble side but even he can't beat the mighty Stoke and if they don't get CL football this or next season his best player will want out like Modric does and, once the last of his CL money dries up, he will find himself in exactly the same situation as Moyes. If he is clever he will try and get the England job before that happens.
You might say he got lucky having the Rooney money but that is just about the only money he has been given in the 10 years he has been here to keep the club afloat which went towards buying the likes of Yak. £25m is not a lot over 10 years but most of it has been re-invested wisely and profits have been made to keep improving the side. It now appears to have dried up. I bet Wigan have had just as much as that to spend over the last 10 years.
"You also seem to think that only the amount of money spent can determine the order the league placings will finish yet point to the success Moyes had in finishing 4th with a poor, low value squad when he took over ? can't you see the irony in that?"
You are absolutely right, that is the huge whole in my arguement, I am not being patronising but well done for pointing that out as you are only the second person in all the years I have been coming on this site to flip my argument on its head for contradicting myself.
I dont know how Moyes did what he did to finish 4th, as far as I am concerned that was a miracle and the moment when football proved to me anything is possible, because I honestly thought we were going to be relegated at the start of that season. But at the same time there was no Man City billions to deal with which left a slight opening for the 4th spot. But that is all the more reason why Moyes needs to stay he has proven he can get the best out of his side, more so than any other manager in the league relative to the money they spend.
Who else has matched or had a similar achievement in the last 20 years? I can only think of Newcastle with Bobby Robson who was sacked because they thought he had taken them as far as he could... What a terrible decision that turned out to be. George Burley with Ipswich but they were relegated the next season and didn't have to worry about Chelsea or Man City's Billions. We all know what happend to Leeds they spent millions more than they had and ended up in the 2nd division somewhere. Finally and most recently Harry Redknapp, who had a very expensively assemble side but even he can't beat the mighty Stoke and if they don't get CL football this or next season his best player will want out like Modric does and, once the last of his CL money dries up, he will find himself in exactly the same situation as Moyes. If he is clever he will try and get the England job before that happens.
Sean McKenna
77 Posted 12/12/2011 at 06:55:40
77 Posted 12/12/2011 at 06:55:40
We as Everton fans can accept defeat, we can accept playing shite from time to time ? it happens to all teams; what we can't accept is rolling over to get our ass fucked by shit teams week-in & week-out!
Forget about money, forget about the so-called top teams, my view is it's 11 v 11 ? it's a fucking war. I'm sick of seeing nicer than nice Everton, Everton players picking up opposing players after a dodgey tackle and shaking hands. I yearn for the days of a Big Dunc or a Carsley or someone who is gonna stand toe to toe and say, "You will lose today because we won't give you a fucking inch."
There's no getting away from this but I want Moyes to leave. I'm not going to moan about the zero shots on target or the 7 defenders on the pitch, I want rid of him because my team don't fight anymore!
If we can't play football let's get back to the Dogs of War!! Give us something to cheer! Even in the days of relegation battles the fans came together because we knew we had shit players, but by god nobody walked away from Goodison with an easy win. We're too soft, we don't have the desire to win that 50/50 ball, we won't throw the kitchen sink at other teams because we are scared of getting a tonking...
FFS get those so-called stars fired up, or you can do one, Moyes!!
Ian Tunstead
78 Posted 12/12/2011 at 13:00:28
78 Posted 12/12/2011 at 13:00:28
I dont think anybody has walked away from Everton with an easy win though, most games that we have lost have only been by the one goal, usualy a quality goal.
But yes we do miss the likes of Carsley, who was hugely under-rated. But if we signed a player like that now the fans would be in up-roar because he is not fashionable enough for them and doesn't pass the ball well enough for them. Everton fans were always wanting Carsley to be replaced on here.
But yes we do miss the likes of Carsley, who was hugely under-rated. But if we signed a player like that now the fans would be in up-roar because he is not fashionable enough for them and doesn't pass the ball well enough for them. Everton fans were always wanting Carsley to be replaced on here.
Peter Barry
79 Posted 12/12/2011 at 13:26:51
79 Posted 12/12/2011 at 13:26:51
Ian they only get one-nil wins at Goodison because Tactics Devoid Dour Davey has so many defenders on the field that it's hard to thread a ball through all the legs. But there is virtually no chance of Everton scoring, as the last 180 minutes of football have proven, when Dour Davey's brilliance in team selection, motivation and substitutions has provide NOT ONE SINGLE EVERTON SHOT ON TARGET.
Andrew Rimmer
80 Posted 12/12/2011 at 14:49:27
80 Posted 12/12/2011 at 14:49:27
Hold on Ian...Rooney was already at Everton when he became a superstar. He left being fed up with not being played by Moyse, (The boy is young and inexperienced) to join Utd where his inexperience got him a Hat trick on his debut in the Champs League!!!
Marcus Bent got 7 goals in 45 apps, Not good eh? He got 7 goals in 31 for Wigan!!! I can't be arsed reeling off stats to dis your argument! It's true what they say about you though, innit!
Marcus Bent got 7 goals in 45 apps, Not good eh? He got 7 goals in 31 for Wigan!!! I can't be arsed reeling off stats to dis your argument! It's true what they say about you though, innit!
Neil Pickering
81 Posted 12/12/2011 at 15:20:25
81 Posted 12/12/2011 at 15:20:25
I have a source in the stoke camp who told me about their prep for last weeks game, and how they were basically told we are shite, and if you stop baines then you stop evertons attacking threat. He said we are slow in build up, and if they defend against fell and Cahill from set pieces then you win the game. And this is stoke we are talking about!
Manager has to go ASAP, and I'll take anyone at this point
Manager has to go ASAP, and I'll take anyone at this point
Sam Hoare
82 Posted 12/12/2011 at 15:30:46
82 Posted 12/12/2011 at 15:30:46
I'm adverse to alot of the Moyes bashers on here who look for any possible excuse to lambast him. 'Why on earth doesn't he play the kids?' one day followed by 'why did he put a kid on' the next.
but i'm not necessarily adverse to a change. Moyes has gone a bit stale and he does only play in one way, which isn't necessarily pleasant to watch.
All those managers listed seem pretty untested to me and more than likley that one or more of them might get relegated this season. However i guess we will have to take a risk as can't see Guus Hiddink stepping in.
Having said that i don't think the time for it is mid season in a tight premiership. Maybe at the end of the season or possibly later on once we are safe. I still fear that Moyes is the person most likely to keep us in the Premiership even when our transfer budget belongs in the Championship.
but i'm not necessarily adverse to a change. Moyes has gone a bit stale and he does only play in one way, which isn't necessarily pleasant to watch.
All those managers listed seem pretty untested to me and more than likley that one or more of them might get relegated this season. However i guess we will have to take a risk as can't see Guus Hiddink stepping in.
Having said that i don't think the time for it is mid season in a tight premiership. Maybe at the end of the season or possibly later on once we are safe. I still fear that Moyes is the person most likely to keep us in the Premiership even when our transfer budget belongs in the Championship.
Andrew Clare
83 Posted 12/12/2011 at 15:30:23
83 Posted 12/12/2011 at 15:30:23
Is this is a very poor Everton team or is it the tactics employed by the Manager?
If you don't know the answer then there is no hope for us.
At this moment in time we must be the most boring and predictable team in the division.
Is this likely to change?
Very unlikely.
Why is Cahill playing?
I don't know, do you?
Why put up with this?
We need change or we will just fade away....
If you don't know the answer then there is no hope for us.
At this moment in time we must be the most boring and predictable team in the division.
Is this likely to change?
Very unlikely.
Why is Cahill playing?
I don't know, do you?
Why put up with this?
We need change or we will just fade away....
Tony J Williams
84 Posted 12/12/2011 at 15:57:08
84 Posted 12/12/2011 at 15:57:08
Neil, it's been that way for 2 years so nothing really new there. Stop the left hand side and let Forest run and lose the ball on the right.
Not really an inspiring bit of managerial skill that.!
Not really an inspiring bit of managerial skill that.!
Ian Tunstead
85 Posted 12/12/2011 at 16:04:21
85 Posted 12/12/2011 at 16:04:21
Andrew, It was Moyes who gave Rooney his debut, he was not yet a superstar by any means, he played under Moyes along side a terrible Everton side but played so well he got his England call up at 17. He was Englands best player but playing along side other good players it helped him to be the best player at the European Championships until his injury. All while still an Everton player.
At everton he was far more exciting and before Fergie had a chance to get his claws into him he even scored a hatrick on his debut for Man Utd.
"his inexperience got him a Hat trick on his debut in the Champs League!!!
". The most rediculous thing i have ever read, maybe i should play next week becuase i might score a hat trick due to my inexperience.
Since his transfer i dont think he has progressed as much as everyone expected, only his finishing and composure infront of goal have improved in my eyes which you would expect anyway with experience. The only way he might seemed to have improved is because he has more of the ball because he has better players around him, if anything fergie has coached that exciting talent out of him by playing him left wing and in midfield, he is less direct in terms of running at players and choses the safe sideway or backwards pass more now. He doesnt score many great goals any more because he doesnt take the same chances, he trys to keep things more safe and simple.
He didnt leave because he wasnt getting played by Moyes either, he left because there was a misunderstanding between Moyes and Rooney which Rooney has since apologised for, probably because he was still a young kid and influenced by his agent at the time who stood to make a lot of money if Rooney left, who Rooney has since won in court against in a recent dispute. Rooney also wanted the chance to play for a top club and win trophies and was no doubt tapped up by the Man Utd players while on England duty.
As for Maruc Bent, it is a team game, it doesnt matter if he scores 0 goals but plays every week and helps us to finish 4th by helping Cahill to score more goals. You obviously dont know what football is all about. If you ask Marcus Bent what his biggest achievement is it will be reaching 4th place and playing in the CL qualification not that he scored 7 goals in 30 odd appearances for Wigan.
At everton he was far more exciting and before Fergie had a chance to get his claws into him he even scored a hatrick on his debut for Man Utd.
"his inexperience got him a Hat trick on his debut in the Champs League!!!
". The most rediculous thing i have ever read, maybe i should play next week becuase i might score a hat trick due to my inexperience.
Since his transfer i dont think he has progressed as much as everyone expected, only his finishing and composure infront of goal have improved in my eyes which you would expect anyway with experience. The only way he might seemed to have improved is because he has more of the ball because he has better players around him, if anything fergie has coached that exciting talent out of him by playing him left wing and in midfield, he is less direct in terms of running at players and choses the safe sideway or backwards pass more now. He doesnt score many great goals any more because he doesnt take the same chances, he trys to keep things more safe and simple.
He didnt leave because he wasnt getting played by Moyes either, he left because there was a misunderstanding between Moyes and Rooney which Rooney has since apologised for, probably because he was still a young kid and influenced by his agent at the time who stood to make a lot of money if Rooney left, who Rooney has since won in court against in a recent dispute. Rooney also wanted the chance to play for a top club and win trophies and was no doubt tapped up by the Man Utd players while on England duty.
As for Maruc Bent, it is a team game, it doesnt matter if he scores 0 goals but plays every week and helps us to finish 4th by helping Cahill to score more goals. You obviously dont know what football is all about. If you ask Marcus Bent what his biggest achievement is it will be reaching 4th place and playing in the CL qualification not that he scored 7 goals in 30 odd appearances for Wigan.
Lee Courtliff
86 Posted 12/12/2011 at 16:28:23
86 Posted 12/12/2011 at 16:28:23
Sean McKenna 77 - You got me a bit fired up there mate.
I remember the '94-95 season with a lot of fondness. Those days of the Dogs of War when nobody fucked with us. Nobody.
It wasn't the School of Science that we all crave but i would take that 'Balboa' mentality over the now legendary......"turning up at a gunfight with a limp wrist and a tub of vaseline".
Back then,well after November when Big Joe took over,there was a great atmosphere almost every home game. Not just when we played Liverpool or Man Utd.
It's funny how a season where we only avoided relegation in the last week of the season can seem so enthralling and entertaining when you look back through Blue-tinted specs.
I remember the '94-95 season with a lot of fondness. Those days of the Dogs of War when nobody fucked with us. Nobody.
It wasn't the School of Science that we all crave but i would take that 'Balboa' mentality over the now legendary......"turning up at a gunfight with a limp wrist and a tub of vaseline".
Back then,well after November when Big Joe took over,there was a great atmosphere almost every home game. Not just when we played Liverpool or Man Utd.
It's funny how a season where we only avoided relegation in the last week of the season can seem so enthralling and entertaining when you look back through Blue-tinted specs.
Tony Marsh
87 Posted 14/12/2011 at 21:13:52
87 Posted 14/12/2011 at 21:13:52
After watching yet another game in which the manager of Everton FC made a complete fool of himself and heaped even more shame on this once great football club, I ask myself how much lower can we go? Is there anything else left up the wizards sleeve to baffle, astound and outrage us?
I can imagine Moyes being in the December episode of the BBC's Crimewatch series after his latest disgraceful fuck-up...
Where you in North London on December 10th 2011? Did you see this man? [Still footage of Gormless Dave Moyes, eyes bulging, flashes up on screen.] Police need help in tracing a man posing as the manager of Everton Football Club. He was last seen on Saturday in the vacinity of the Emirates Stadium the home of Arsenal FC were its alleged around 3000 travelling Everton football supporters were mugged inside the ground by the so-called manager.
It's thought Moyes, also known as Dithering or Deadly Dave, has fled to the safety of his Cheshire mansion and is denying all knowledge of the incident. Please call us if you were there.
What we are witnessing at this club at the present moment in time is a manager so out of his depth in the Premier League that even Peter Ried or Joe Royle could do a better job standing on thier heads.
Never mind asking who would we get to come in and do any better you should be asking who could be any worse than this?
Make no mistake, Moyes is finished as a coach/tactician as the game has left him behind. A lot has changed in English football in the past 5 years and both Moyes and Round have been found out with shocking consequences for us the fans.
I think on paper our top 15/16 players are a match for anyone on their day. Apart from the obvious 4 or 5 teams, we should fear no one.
Why is it then that even the also-rans and newly promoted take the piss out of us? Out-think and out-play Moyes in every game? Is it because they have more money?
Go on, mention the money thing if you must but answer me this: Why is the Yak scoring for fun at Blackburn? Why does Arteta look twice the player at Arsenal that he was here under Moyes? Has the fact Mikel was sold for £12 million and increased his salary made him a better player? Of course not.
Arteta now plays for a manager who knows how to play the game properly and who utilises him in the correct manner. Arteta, like all the other talented players at this club, got drained of all spirit and desire by Moyes and Rooney was the first to suss the twat out!!
Take a look at our squad: it's small but not that bad but they look as if they have never played the game before... Can't blame Bill for this can we? It wasn't Bill who pulled off his striker and had more defenders come on at Arsenal, was it?
I despise Kenwright and he is to blame for the sad state of affairs at the club but, once the team runs across that white line, it becomes the manager's responsibility to get things right..
Money or no fucking money, it's basic fundamentals that Moyes is lacking in... 7 fucking defenders on the pitch and no strikers in a game we are chasing??? Tell me you see it FFS. Moyes has been doing this for years by the way but it's only now the results are going against him some of you realise it.
It's now at the point where I feel sick to the pit of my stomach watching us play the Moyes way. A combination of anger, disbelief, confusion and apathy are creating a new emotion I never knew existed.
Nothing will change and more of the same will be served up in the next two games where newly promoted Norwich and Swansea will both give us a footballing lesson. It would be more fun having a go on a Rusty Waltzer on a Romanian fairground than watching this shite every week.
I can't believe we still have sections of the fan base supporting Moyes, whatever the valid points are for him being here.
Moyes is dragging the club through the mud. He is shaming everyone of us and destroying what little faith any of us have left. The whole club reeks of stagnation and decay. The football is a joke and with each game that passes my toes curl a little further up my shoes.
How can this be right? How can any EVERTONIAN want the club associated with such a loser? It's tearing us apart, we are at each other's throats and it's going to get worse as long as he stays.
We may not be relegated but the football will be as grim as ever if Moyes stays. Surely we can afford to sack him as he only has 18 months left on his contract.... Surely even Gobshite Kenwright can see it now.... Surely there is a man somewhere who can give us back our pride????
Ah fuck it... One for the Waltzer mate...
Gary Smith
88 Posted 25/12/2011 at 13:58:08
88 Posted 25/12/2011 at 13:58:08
There used to be a time I could second guess almost every Moyes decision, his first team selections, subs and the timings of the subs. Why?... because for a long time Moyes was in sync with the fans ? but now this isn't the case. Moyes makes decisions that many of us are baffled by and I feel there is a lot more people getting off the fence and declaring they've finally had enough... myself included.
I know this forum will never be a true reflection of all fans, mainly as people are usually compelled to contribute when they feel strongly either way.
I want to try and gauge this unrest and ask the simple question... Moyes out - Yes or No?
Please don't factor in the arguments about the board or lack of money or who would take the job next. Base your decision on the fact could another manager be doing a better job than Moyes is at this moment in time?
Ian Bennett
89 Posted 16/01/2012 at 21:45:05
89 Posted 16/01/2012 at 21:45:05
Brendan Rodgers will get a crack at a big club, I have no doubts about that. Watched the Swans and read a great piece about their 7 lines, which was then ripped off on MOTD2, passing triangles etc.
Main observation for me is that he has developed a style started years ago by Paulo Soussa and Martinez, developing quick, small players in the Barca mould. He will get a mid tier team and probably fail, as most mid tier teams will not give him the time or the budget to rebuild a team from scratch.
Couple of blues have him down as a replacement for Moyes, which is interesting as only a handful of players would make it into his set up, with no budget to hire and replace. Would he be a success with that backdrop and the pressure of 38 games to maintain survival?
Main observation for me is that he has developed a style started years ago by Paulo Soussa and Martinez, developing quick, small players in the Barca mould. He will get a mid tier team and probably fail, as most mid tier teams will not give him the time or the budget to rebuild a team from scratch.
Couple of blues have him down as a replacement for Moyes, which is interesting as only a handful of players would make it into his set up, with no budget to hire and replace. Would he be a success with that backdrop and the pressure of 38 games to maintain survival?
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1 Posted 10/12/2011 at 18:39:47