Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Time For A Change
By Ryan Rosenberg :: 20/12/2011
46 Comments (»Last)
About seven months ago I wrote a piece on my beloved ToffeeWeb about losing my passion for this club. Not only have I lost passion, I have lost any remaining faith I had in the board, coaches, and especially David Moyes.
I turn sweet sixteen in two months, so what do I want for my birthday? A new owner, board, manager and striker. I get a lot of abuse about Everton at school, my fellow classmates taunt me with the old "Everton are shit" and "You will always be a small club". I should take their lack of football or general intelligence into account (I live in Melbourne); however, now I reluctantly agree with them. I used to stand up for myself, saying "We have no money, yet we are always top finish in the top eight" and "We have beaten the big clubs in the past", but no longer will I stick up for David Moyes.
Why should I accept that Moyes gets a £65k weekly cheque in his 'Dundee bank account' for not playing a team capable of acquiring three points? Why should Doddy? Einstein defines 'insanity' as "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". Well, his 4-5-1 never worked against QPR, and it didn't work against Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle either.
Moyes should never be allowed to approach a match by going for a draw. That pisses me off, a lot, when I see the same formation every week. But starting Phil Neville, a 35-year-old right back, instead of the most exciting 18-year-old in England, Ross Barkley, makes me sick. Ross came on against Bolton and did more than Osman did for the whole match in ten minutes.
But credit's due for you giving Gueye a go, even though it should've been done a long time ago. "Tolis, I just decided he looked a little bit below it in training", yeah fair enough Davey, but Cahill, Osman and Saha can keep their spot for their consistently shit performances during the last year...
Why does Moyes have any right to complain about our lack of quality forwards? "We have been saying for a while now we need a striker, and that is obvious from our performances ? but they are the ones who cost the money". Very complex analysis... I mean, who was the one that agreed to sell Beckford and Yakubu without replacing them? We certainly got our value for Becks, but there was no need to sell him.
And Yakubu? I don't know how you could sell a "natural goalscorer" for such a nominal fee. Their is no excuse for you to say we need a striker, because you sold two of them, one who scored 10 last season and had a very high goal-per-minute ratio, and another who already has nine this season. "We were interested in him. He's done terrific" and more importantly "He scores goals". These quotes about the free-agent Demba Ba just shows how poorly managed we are.
You cannot sell arguably you're two best players (Pienaar and Arteta) and not replace them. Players like that need to be replaced, but what is so disgraceful is how their transfers were managed. Our reigning 'Player of the Season', gone for about five times less of what we should of got, and Arteta, our only creative source gone on the last day without a replacement ? no excuses.
Dare I mention Dan Gosling, a promising youngster gone for nothing. These are vital mistakes. There was no need for Arteta to go, we sold him in the dying minutes so Moyes and Kenwright could say "We wanted to keep him but we had no time to replace him". Arteta never wanted to leave. Pienaar? If you knew he wouldn't sign, you should've made him available 6 months earlier so we could get a decent fee. This might've happened a while ago, but we are nothing without these two.
No creativity, no quality, no approach, no Plan B... same line-up... WE SHOULD NOT STAND FOR THIS.
I would take the 'Blue Union' seriously if they wanted Moyes out as well, because he is just as bad as Kenwright. We will never be stable with Moyes at helm, his errors are too costly. Stop saying after every game "We were unlucky" and play a team that's going to fucking go for it. Moyes, pull your finger out, play Barkley, play the world-class Drenthe, play a team that will score, play football ? not hoofball.
I am honestly sick to death of Moyes, he is the most overrated and overpaid manager in the EPL and, although I will still get up in the early hours of the morning to watch us, I do not care anymore. The media no nothing, "Moyes has done well on a shoe string budget", please just no. You should be stripped of any Journalism qualification if you truly believe that. Watch the games please, and understand how the majority of us feel. The sad thing is, nothing will change.
MOYES OUT!!!
Reader Comments (46)
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Norman Merrill
2 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:57:42
2 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:57:42
Ryan, Well put son, at least you have vented your disapproval. There will be many who will support you, and many who will come on and argue the points you have spoken about, and it's all about opinions.
Results do speak for themselves, and things will have to improve if we are to get away from the dog fight down there with Bolton, Blackburn etc. We need to get a good result tomorrow night... Swansea are well organised, but it's down to Moyes to motivate the lads, and just start with two up front!!
Results do speak for themselves, and things will have to improve if we are to get away from the dog fight down there with Bolton, Blackburn etc. We need to get a good result tomorrow night... Swansea are well organised, but it's down to Moyes to motivate the lads, and just start with two up front!!
Graham Duffy
3 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:09:08
3 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:09:08
Ryan, you have just said everything I feel.
I agree with you completely 100%.
Things are only gonna get worse until Moyes goes.
Moyes, have some dignity and do one.
I agree with you completely 100%.
Things are only gonna get worse until Moyes goes.
Moyes, have some dignity and do one.
Jonathan Stockdale
4 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:17:09
4 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:17:09
Lose the youth coming through and there will be no club to support. What were all the 40 somethings who comment on here doing 25 years ago? I really do feel very sorry for Ryan's generation of Evertonian because at this rate what will they have to remince about?
Peter McIver
5 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:56:03
5 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:56:03
I dont remember being so articulate when i was 16!
I agree with most of your comments. This is the first season i find myself asking if moyes is really what we need to move forward. Its been a shocking season so far. The thing that scares me the most though is, what are the alternatives? Given our predicament, maybe moyes is the only person whom may keep us from being relegated? Which is a horrible predicament to be in.
I also live downunder ( adelaide ) though i was raised not too far far goodison park, and i havnt bothered to watch a single game this season. Going out to some seedy bar at 2am to watch some former div. one side beat us just doesnt appeal to me.
I wish moyes would be more creative with his team selections, i would rather see us going down fighting than getting lucky with mediocrity but something niggles at the back of my mind, saying : maybe this is as good as it gets right now.
I hate that i just wrote that and am resisting the urge to delete it, but what if its true? Maybe this is the reality of our position in the premiership right now.
Oh shit, its almost 2am! Im outta here.
Heres hoping that wednsday nights game sees barkley and co. getting a run out! ; )
Ps: WELCOME BACK DONOVAN!!!! Please stay!!
I agree with most of your comments. This is the first season i find myself asking if moyes is really what we need to move forward. Its been a shocking season so far. The thing that scares me the most though is, what are the alternatives? Given our predicament, maybe moyes is the only person whom may keep us from being relegated? Which is a horrible predicament to be in.
I also live downunder ( adelaide ) though i was raised not too far far goodison park, and i havnt bothered to watch a single game this season. Going out to some seedy bar at 2am to watch some former div. one side beat us just doesnt appeal to me.
I wish moyes would be more creative with his team selections, i would rather see us going down fighting than getting lucky with mediocrity but something niggles at the back of my mind, saying : maybe this is as good as it gets right now.
I hate that i just wrote that and am resisting the urge to delete it, but what if its true? Maybe this is the reality of our position in the premiership right now.
Oh shit, its almost 2am! Im outta here.
Heres hoping that wednsday nights game sees barkley and co. getting a run out! ; )
Ps: WELCOME BACK DONOVAN!!!! Please stay!!
Paul Ferry
6 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:24:32
6 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:24:32
Everton have got some good youth coming through. That young Ryan Rosenberg from Melbourne is an exciting prospect: smart, articulate, incisive, pacey, can apparently take a corner that gets past the 1st defender...
Agree 100 per cent Ryan! Other things might be said but there's so much to cherry pick from now. Next time ask your classmates to name five red shite/Chelski/Manure/Citehsheik players.
Agree 100 per cent Ryan! Other things might be said but there's so much to cherry pick from now. Next time ask your classmates to name five red shite/Chelski/Manure/Citehsheik players.
Tony J Williams
7 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:25:59
7 Posted 20/12/2011 at 14:25:59
"Well, his 4-5-1 never worked against QPR, and it didn't work against Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle either" - It worked against Blackburn, Bolton and Fulham this year and it worked against 15 teams last year with only 10 managing to beat us.
You cannot blame all the ills on a formation, when it clearly does work as much as it doesn't, more on last years results.
"I would take the 'Blue Union' seriously if they wanted Moyes out as well, because he is just as bad as Kenwright" - No he's not.
"Dare I mention Dan Gosling, a promising youngster gone for nothing" - He was gash and the uproar only came because it was an almighty cock up by the board, not Moyes.
""Moyes has done well on a shoe string budget", please just no. You should be stripped of any Journalism qualification if you truly believe that." Eh? So you are not allowed an opinion then? If you express an opinion that you dislike you should be stripped of your credentials?
Moyes has many faults, best use the correct ones rather than trying to blame him for something he has no control over.
Has he been supported by the board? Since we have stopped spending money we have not qualified for Europe, coincidence?
"Why should I accept that Moyes gets a £65k weekly" - why should anyone? Why should anyone accept the mega books the inept bankers are on? They don't decide their wages, the people paying them do.
When you start working, I bet that on more than one occassion, you will barter for a pay rise, why can't other employees...because that all Moyes is really, an employee of Evertob FC Ltd. He haggled for a raise and got it, more fool the idiots on the board that agreed it.
You cannot blame all the ills on a formation, when it clearly does work as much as it doesn't, more on last years results.
"I would take the 'Blue Union' seriously if they wanted Moyes out as well, because he is just as bad as Kenwright" - No he's not.
"Dare I mention Dan Gosling, a promising youngster gone for nothing" - He was gash and the uproar only came because it was an almighty cock up by the board, not Moyes.
""Moyes has done well on a shoe string budget", please just no. You should be stripped of any Journalism qualification if you truly believe that." Eh? So you are not allowed an opinion then? If you express an opinion that you dislike you should be stripped of your credentials?
Moyes has many faults, best use the correct ones rather than trying to blame him for something he has no control over.
Has he been supported by the board? Since we have stopped spending money we have not qualified for Europe, coincidence?
"Why should I accept that Moyes gets a £65k weekly" - why should anyone? Why should anyone accept the mega books the inept bankers are on? They don't decide their wages, the people paying them do.
When you start working, I bet that on more than one occassion, you will barter for a pay rise, why can't other employees...because that all Moyes is really, an employee of Evertob FC Ltd. He haggled for a raise and got it, more fool the idiots on the board that agreed it.
Tony J Williams
8 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:39:02
8 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:39:02
"bucks" - Doh!
Tommy Hesketh
9 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:31:05
9 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:31:05
Ryan,
Excellent post mate, no doubt it will be shot to pieces by the usual shite about how we finished 4th (6 years ago). The steady or now rapid decline is there for all to see, even the most ardent fans (Doddy) seems to be getting a little irritated at DM. The lack of passion, drive and most important tactical nous is disgraceful £65K a week, for what is resembling an empty shell with mere sound bites coming out after every game.
If anyone thinks we will suddenly rise up the league this season and finish 8-10 I would suggest a visit to the doctor as on the evidence thus far we are more likely to finish between 15-20. We are over 1/3 into this season and have won 5 games, IMO I can?t see the next win coming and dread to think should any bids or injuries occur for Baines.
For me the playing season is already over, however the battle to rid the club off the current owners is hopefully just beginning.
Anyone had any news on the next protest?
Excellent post mate, no doubt it will be shot to pieces by the usual shite about how we finished 4th (6 years ago). The steady or now rapid decline is there for all to see, even the most ardent fans (Doddy) seems to be getting a little irritated at DM. The lack of passion, drive and most important tactical nous is disgraceful £65K a week, for what is resembling an empty shell with mere sound bites coming out after every game.
If anyone thinks we will suddenly rise up the league this season and finish 8-10 I would suggest a visit to the doctor as on the evidence thus far we are more likely to finish between 15-20. We are over 1/3 into this season and have won 5 games, IMO I can?t see the next win coming and dread to think should any bids or injuries occur for Baines.
For me the playing season is already over, however the battle to rid the club off the current owners is hopefully just beginning.
Anyone had any news on the next protest?
Ian Tunstead
10 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:56:03
10 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:56:03
A 15 year old who knows better than David Moyes and all the other PL managers combined. Maybe you should do your coaching badges and you could be the next Jose Mourinho and one day take Everton to greatness.
I'm sure most of us have took some stick from Liverpool fans in our time, believe me i have had it much worse than you when Everton were in a far worse situation. That is no excuse for becoming a quitter or losing your passion. Evertonians should be there through the good and the bad times to support the team. You should take it as a positive, it?s probably why you are so articulate and good at arguing the toss because you are getting lots of practice arguing with Liverpool fans. The sad thing is that is usually the only thing in life that makes them feel like winners. Most of them couldn?t win at a game of tidily winks.
I wish people would cool it on the Barkley front though and not get swept along by the hype. He needs to develop with the academy he has missed 2 years of football and will be ruined if rushed. People said all the same things about Colemen and now when he has a bad game it is Moyes fault.
I had the argument the other day and said Neville is probably bossing Barkley in training, I was sneered at and mocked of course and people said things like ?The idea of Neville bossing Barkley in training is laughable, Neville isnt fit to lace his boots, hes a yes man and a Moyes favourite so gets picked regardless,?
People have short memories. When Gareth Bale was destroying some of Europe?s best players no one though Neville was fit to lace his boots either. We all saw the outcome.
I'm sure most of us have took some stick from Liverpool fans in our time, believe me i have had it much worse than you when Everton were in a far worse situation. That is no excuse for becoming a quitter or losing your passion. Evertonians should be there through the good and the bad times to support the team. You should take it as a positive, it?s probably why you are so articulate and good at arguing the toss because you are getting lots of practice arguing with Liverpool fans. The sad thing is that is usually the only thing in life that makes them feel like winners. Most of them couldn?t win at a game of tidily winks.
I wish people would cool it on the Barkley front though and not get swept along by the hype. He needs to develop with the academy he has missed 2 years of football and will be ruined if rushed. People said all the same things about Colemen and now when he has a bad game it is Moyes fault.
I had the argument the other day and said Neville is probably bossing Barkley in training, I was sneered at and mocked of course and people said things like ?The idea of Neville bossing Barkley in training is laughable, Neville isnt fit to lace his boots, hes a yes man and a Moyes favourite so gets picked regardless,?
People have short memories. When Gareth Bale was destroying some of Europe?s best players no one though Neville was fit to lace his boots either. We all saw the outcome.
James McPherson
11 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:56:36
11 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:56:36
Tommy Hesketh, just watch out for the next leak on "potential investor in talks". I find that often coincides with a march.
Paul Ferry
12 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:51:47
12 Posted 20/12/2011 at 15:51:47
Jeez Tony J Williams (wonder what the J stands for?) you ought to win a big prize for misrepresentation of a post and less of the condescension next time please: ?When you start working ? ?
From your pen/keyboard: ?Moyes has many faults, best use the correct ones rather than trying to blame him for something he has no control over?.
Go back to the original post and read it again and this time take note of the points:
(1) the same formation week-in-and-week-out
(2) not starting with Barkely
(3) not starting with Drenthe - hopefully put right tomorrow
(4) starting Neville
(5) starting Cahill
(6) starting Saha
(7) selling goalscorers ? that is, if we believe what comes out of Moyes mouth, that he has the final say over incoming and outcoming
(7) no ? I would say little ? creativity on the pitch
(8) same line-up with, admittedly, a little tinkering now and then (9) no plan-B
(10) ?Moyes should never be allowed to approach a match by going for a draw?. I would put this a different way: talking down prospects before a ball is kicked, defensive first line-ups, safety-first, creativity challenged from the first kick of the match, and more besides.
So, TJW, 10 points, all taken from the original post and all situations/choices/decisions over which Moyes has control and inmost cases complete control. So, next time, have a little more respect, do not cherry pick what you want to grab from a post and treat is as written as a complete whole.
Oh, this sums a lot up: 4-5-1, but it does work a lot,
?but more on last years results?. This is the present TJW and it is not working, and we are sandwiched in 14th between West Brom and Queens Park Rangers.
But Ryan, Moyes is not ?the most overrated? boss in the Prem, but he is certainly a strong candidate for the most overpaid boss if, as we should, we judge him first and foremost on this season.
From your pen/keyboard: ?Moyes has many faults, best use the correct ones rather than trying to blame him for something he has no control over?.
Go back to the original post and read it again and this time take note of the points:
(1) the same formation week-in-and-week-out
(2) not starting with Barkely
(3) not starting with Drenthe - hopefully put right tomorrow
(4) starting Neville
(5) starting Cahill
(6) starting Saha
(7) selling goalscorers ? that is, if we believe what comes out of Moyes mouth, that he has the final say over incoming and outcoming
(7) no ? I would say little ? creativity on the pitch
(8) same line-up with, admittedly, a little tinkering now and then (9) no plan-B
(10) ?Moyes should never be allowed to approach a match by going for a draw?. I would put this a different way: talking down prospects before a ball is kicked, defensive first line-ups, safety-first, creativity challenged from the first kick of the match, and more besides.
So, TJW, 10 points, all taken from the original post and all situations/choices/decisions over which Moyes has control and inmost cases complete control. So, next time, have a little more respect, do not cherry pick what you want to grab from a post and treat is as written as a complete whole.
Oh, this sums a lot up: 4-5-1, but it does work a lot,
?but more on last years results?. This is the present TJW and it is not working, and we are sandwiched in 14th between West Brom and Queens Park Rangers.
But Ryan, Moyes is not ?the most overrated? boss in the Prem, but he is certainly a strong candidate for the most overpaid boss if, as we should, we judge him first and foremost on this season.
Chris Rudd
14 Posted 20/12/2011 at 16:23:11
14 Posted 20/12/2011 at 16:23:11
Not short memories Ian, just a different way of seeing things. As I recall, Moyes used some of those things you deem worthless...'tactics' and doubled up Neville and Coleman on Bale sending him down blind alleys most of the game whereas the genius Benitez felt that as he had the 'best right back in the world' playing for Inter, he didn't need to give him any assistance - even after Bale had scored... and then scored again...and then scored again.
Besides which, how that performance has any bearing on what we need in the centre of midfield right now I'm not sure. You may be right that Barkley isn't yet ready for world domination, but whatever the question is alongside Fellaini, I'm pretty sure Phil Neville is no longer (if he ever was) the answer.
Besides which, how that performance has any bearing on what we need in the centre of midfield right now I'm not sure. You may be right that Barkley isn't yet ready for world domination, but whatever the question is alongside Fellaini, I'm pretty sure Phil Neville is no longer (if he ever was) the answer.
Ian Tunstead
15 Posted 20/12/2011 at 16:34:19
15 Posted 20/12/2011 at 16:34:19
I actually agree Chris i dont like to see 2 defensive midfielders on but the other options are not very inspiring either, especially with recent injuries.
Glad to see someone has fianally giving Moyes some credit for his tactics for once. And against that mastermind Redknapp, showing Benitez how its done.
Glad to see someone has fianally giving Moyes some credit for his tactics for once. And against that mastermind Redknapp, showing Benitez how its done.
Gary Creaney
16 Posted 20/12/2011 at 16:38:11
16 Posted 20/12/2011 at 16:38:11
Ryan, I think it?s safe to say that passion levels for Everton have dropped in many supporters minds.
I know for sure that my Dad and brothers talk significantly less about the blues these days other than to complain when for the previous 20 years, 95% of our conversations were about all things Everton whether good, bad or indifferent.
I?ve been reading just about all the articles/posts that have been appearing on TW for the last few weeks and months and to be totally honest there are good points being made by both the optimistic and pessimistic. So I have been trying to look at things in a fair manner (I?m purely talking players and managers here, not the board).
I asked myself are we actually any good? I.e. do we still have the players available to allow us to blame the manager?s team selection and tactics when things go wrong?
I guess we?ll never really know the answer to that question until Moyes? finally plays the attack minded team we?re crying out for, and for a sustained amount of games?..not just one game and then saying ?Nope, that didn?t work!!?
But in January there is absolutely nothing stopping Moyes? (other than his own defensive minded stubbornness) from playing Fellaini as a holding Midfielder, Rodwell as a box to box midfielder, Barkley as an attacking midfielder come striker and Donavon & Drenthe on the wings with whoever up front. Playing defensively has left us 14th in the league, 4 points above the drop zone and 10 points off 7th place??.IT DOES NOT YIELD RESULTS!!
Moyes? has a lot of positive attributes. I?m certain that everyone would agree with that. It is unfortunate that his negative approach far outweighs them though.
If he was to grow a set of balls and send out an attack minded team for an extended period of time and give it a chance to prove its value or lack thereof then he might just win over my respect again but unfortunately I don?t believe he has it in him.
In the interest of fairness I?m gonna utter two words that I?ve been building towards for a long time but not sure if I really meant them: MOYES OUT!!
I know for sure that my Dad and brothers talk significantly less about the blues these days other than to complain when for the previous 20 years, 95% of our conversations were about all things Everton whether good, bad or indifferent.
I?ve been reading just about all the articles/posts that have been appearing on TW for the last few weeks and months and to be totally honest there are good points being made by both the optimistic and pessimistic. So I have been trying to look at things in a fair manner (I?m purely talking players and managers here, not the board).
I asked myself are we actually any good? I.e. do we still have the players available to allow us to blame the manager?s team selection and tactics when things go wrong?
I guess we?ll never really know the answer to that question until Moyes? finally plays the attack minded team we?re crying out for, and for a sustained amount of games?..not just one game and then saying ?Nope, that didn?t work!!?
But in January there is absolutely nothing stopping Moyes? (other than his own defensive minded stubbornness) from playing Fellaini as a holding Midfielder, Rodwell as a box to box midfielder, Barkley as an attacking midfielder come striker and Donavon & Drenthe on the wings with whoever up front. Playing defensively has left us 14th in the league, 4 points above the drop zone and 10 points off 7th place??.IT DOES NOT YIELD RESULTS!!
Moyes? has a lot of positive attributes. I?m certain that everyone would agree with that. It is unfortunate that his negative approach far outweighs them though.
If he was to grow a set of balls and send out an attack minded team for an extended period of time and give it a chance to prove its value or lack thereof then he might just win over my respect again but unfortunately I don?t believe he has it in him.
In the interest of fairness I?m gonna utter two words that I?ve been building towards for a long time but not sure if I really meant them: MOYES OUT!!
Nick Entwistle
17 Posted 20/12/2011 at 17:49:19
17 Posted 20/12/2011 at 17:49:19
Not short memories?, Ryan can't even remember the day Moyes took over. Get back to your boomerang pie and pajama wearing fruit.
Michael Brien
18 Posted 20/12/2011 at 17:47:07
18 Posted 20/12/2011 at 17:47:07
I agree with you Ryan when you say that David Moyes is overrated. I think that he has shown his tactical limitations and as regards the not having money excuse well perhaps someone out there could answer this question?
Fellani at £15M,Yak at £11M and Billy at £9M.if we are a club that has little or no money what is the sense in spending approx £35M on 3 players? Would it not make more sense to spend that amount of money on say 6 or 8 players? I rate all 3 players - I wish Yak was still at Everton - but where they luxuries that we couldn't afford? I would like Sky Sports - but I am not prepared to pay an over inflated price that I can't afford.Far from being careful with Everton's transfer budget it would seem that Moyes has been care less.
Fellani at £15M,Yak at £11M and Billy at £9M.if we are a club that has little or no money what is the sense in spending approx £35M on 3 players? Would it not make more sense to spend that amount of money on say 6 or 8 players? I rate all 3 players - I wish Yak was still at Everton - but where they luxuries that we couldn't afford? I would like Sky Sports - but I am not prepared to pay an over inflated price that I can't afford.Far from being careful with Everton's transfer budget it would seem that Moyes has been care less.
Anthony Jones
19 Posted 20/12/2011 at 17:58:44
19 Posted 20/12/2011 at 17:58:44
Well said Ryan.
You make the key points about Moyes without all of the bull shit that many older posters trot out that undermines the primary issues.
I think it is best said thus:
Moyes is shit.
You make the key points about Moyes without all of the bull shit that many older posters trot out that undermines the primary issues.
I think it is best said thus:
Moyes is shit.
Ian Tunstead
20 Posted 20/12/2011 at 18:06:10
20 Posted 20/12/2011 at 18:06:10
Not really Michael, we couldn?t afford the wages of another 8 players in the squad, especially when we are trying to be patient and give youngsters a chance. Rodwell and Barkley would be pushed further down the pecking order.
Fergie spent about that much on one player that have flopped. Veron was a huge flop, Berbatov hasn?t exactly lived up to all the hype and expectation.
£15m is the going rate for a top holding midielder. How much for Alonso, Mascherano or when Carrick and Hargreaves went to Man Utd? I think £15m will be seen as a massive bargain when Fellaini reaches his prime in another 3 years. I already thing he is worth £25m.
£11M is the price of an average PL striker in todays market or a good player but with some issues like only playing a couple of good seasons and being a bit lazy.
Bily didn?t work out but for every Bily there is an Arteta and Pienaar.
Fergie spent about that much on one player that have flopped. Veron was a huge flop, Berbatov hasn?t exactly lived up to all the hype and expectation.
£15m is the going rate for a top holding midielder. How much for Alonso, Mascherano or when Carrick and Hargreaves went to Man Utd? I think £15m will be seen as a massive bargain when Fellaini reaches his prime in another 3 years. I already thing he is worth £25m.
£11M is the price of an average PL striker in todays market or a good player but with some issues like only playing a couple of good seasons and being a bit lazy.
Bily didn?t work out but for every Bily there is an Arteta and Pienaar.
Nick Entwistle
21 Posted 20/12/2011 at 18:41:17
21 Posted 20/12/2011 at 18:41:17
What do you mean by " 'Dundee bank account' "?
Edward Boyd
22 Posted 20/12/2011 at 19:29:13
22 Posted 20/12/2011 at 19:29:13
Good post, Ryan; agreed with it all.
Richard (# 1), I am another with 60+ years of addiction but we have had some great times following the Blues. Your description of Kenwright is spot on.
COYLB.
Richard (# 1), I am another with 60+ years of addiction but we have had some great times following the Blues. Your description of Kenwright is spot on.
COYLB.
Roman Sidey
23 Posted 20/12/2011 at 19:25:17
23 Posted 20/12/2011 at 19:25:17
Nick, what gives you the right to stick into an fellow Everton Supporter because of his age? So what if he was 4 or 5 years old when Moyes signed on?
With the internet these days, we can see enough old games/footage to appreciate the good old days. Also, with the internet, we are able to see EVERY GAME that is played now, so we see the same mistakes being made EVERY GAME.
Ian, a lot of us praised Moyes for getting the tactics spot on against Spurs last January. He did a fantastic job and "went for it". As I said on another post a month ago or something, it's the fact that he does this occasionally, and it works, but then reverts back to his negative ways. Why can't he send the team out like this more often?
Spurs were, regarding form, probably in the top five teams in the world at the time (before jumping down my throat, read the phrases "regarding form" and "at the time"), and we beat them.
Like many, I used to be ardent in my support for the man, but a manager who cannot prepare his team to beat the likes of QPR, Norwich, WBA - at home no less - has lost his touch.
I was in Newcastle a couple of weeks ago, with a mate who is a QPR supporter. I helped him in a chant when some Geordie wankers started singing their song to us, to which they replied about QPR: "Team full of rejects!"
I thought about that, they were right, QPR are a team full of rejects. Then I thought, "There's no way I'm admitting that I support a team that couldn't even beat a team full of rejects in their own back yard.
With the internet these days, we can see enough old games/footage to appreciate the good old days. Also, with the internet, we are able to see EVERY GAME that is played now, so we see the same mistakes being made EVERY GAME.
Ian, a lot of us praised Moyes for getting the tactics spot on against Spurs last January. He did a fantastic job and "went for it". As I said on another post a month ago or something, it's the fact that he does this occasionally, and it works, but then reverts back to his negative ways. Why can't he send the team out like this more often?
Spurs were, regarding form, probably in the top five teams in the world at the time (before jumping down my throat, read the phrases "regarding form" and "at the time"), and we beat them.
Like many, I used to be ardent in my support for the man, but a manager who cannot prepare his team to beat the likes of QPR, Norwich, WBA - at home no less - has lost his touch.
I was in Newcastle a couple of weeks ago, with a mate who is a QPR supporter. I helped him in a chant when some Geordie wankers started singing their song to us, to which they replied about QPR: "Team full of rejects!"
I thought about that, they were right, QPR are a team full of rejects. Then I thought, "There's no way I'm admitting that I support a team that couldn't even beat a team full of rejects in their own back yard.
Roman Sidey
24 Posted 20/12/2011 at 20:03:06
24 Posted 20/12/2011 at 20:03:06
Richard #1, loved your point about Cipriani and St Kilda.
However, as an Aussie, I take (good natured)exception to your lack of knowledge and research.
Despite both Super Rugby and AFL seasons being on, for the most part, during football's off season, Cipriani is a shitheap who can't even keep his place at the Rebels, and St Kilda are basically Red Shite of the Aussie Rules (minus the good history of titles).
All in fun that was mate.
However, as an Aussie, I take (good natured)exception to your lack of knowledge and research.
Despite both Super Rugby and AFL seasons being on, for the most part, during football's off season, Cipriani is a shitheap who can't even keep his place at the Rebels, and St Kilda are basically Red Shite of the Aussie Rules (minus the good history of titles).
All in fun that was mate.
Nick Entwistle
25 Posted 20/12/2011 at 20:49:38
25 Posted 20/12/2011 at 20:49:38
Don't think a right is required Mr Sidney... but at his age his football view, and life view, is very short of how things evolve and repeat, and how the past can shape the future.
When you're 15 everything is of the moment, the past did not exist.
Forgive me but I just can't give credence to the opinion of someone who can't even remember Per Kroldrup.
When you're 15 everything is of the moment, the past did not exist.
Forgive me but I just can't give credence to the opinion of someone who can't even remember Per Kroldrup.
James Stewart
26 Posted 20/12/2011 at 21:08:39
26 Posted 20/12/2011 at 21:08:39
Good post. Sadly a lot will still back Moyes in the bizarre hope that he might finally grow a backbone and try to attack!
He has had a decade and nothing has changed tactically. Moyes is vastly overrated and hides behind his small club with no money mentality.
He has had a decade and nothing has changed tactically. Moyes is vastly overrated and hides behind his small club with no money mentality.
Nick Entwistle
27 Posted 20/12/2011 at 21:13:00
27 Posted 20/12/2011 at 21:13:00
Sidey!
Chris Butler
28 Posted 20/12/2011 at 21:31:22
28 Posted 20/12/2011 at 21:31:22
What's his age got to do with anything? It's clear he can see things better than some of the Moyes apologists who are a lot older.
His supporters are deluded, if you're going to make an arguement, at least make sure it's true and can stand close scrutiny. I was once a fan of David Moyes, until in my opinion have gave up. He kept Arteta, he let Pienaar go for a low price and sold Premier League proven strikers. He kept Jags who is still prone to errors a 9-year-old lad on the playground would be embarrassed about.
The reason he hasn't been given any money is because he's useless at spending it. He wasted £11 million on Bily, £15 million on Felaini who was a panic buy. He's got rid of Vaughan and kept the useless Anichebe.
Everybody knows Moyes will still be here at the end of the season due to fact he keeps quiet and is happy to sell players to please the board while we disintegrate. He's kept Cahill in the team for weeks despite the fact he has been awful for at least 8 months.
Moyes has somehow managed to lose to Liverpool more times at Goodsion than he's managed to beat them. If Kenwright and other board members get ousted and Moyes stays he'll be like the Nazi who got away. He is so respected by the likes of Ferguson and Wenger because we rarely if ever manage to beat them same with Liverpool.
I don't believe Moyes leaving now would help us as the new manager would be left with a sqaud that only know how to play the Moyes way. I do agree that there's a good chance we'll be a worse side if Moyes leaves before the summer.
His supporters are deluded, if you're going to make an arguement, at least make sure it's true and can stand close scrutiny. I was once a fan of David Moyes, until in my opinion have gave up. He kept Arteta, he let Pienaar go for a low price and sold Premier League proven strikers. He kept Jags who is still prone to errors a 9-year-old lad on the playground would be embarrassed about.
The reason he hasn't been given any money is because he's useless at spending it. He wasted £11 million on Bily, £15 million on Felaini who was a panic buy. He's got rid of Vaughan and kept the useless Anichebe.
Everybody knows Moyes will still be here at the end of the season due to fact he keeps quiet and is happy to sell players to please the board while we disintegrate. He's kept Cahill in the team for weeks despite the fact he has been awful for at least 8 months.
Moyes has somehow managed to lose to Liverpool more times at Goodsion than he's managed to beat them. If Kenwright and other board members get ousted and Moyes stays he'll be like the Nazi who got away. He is so respected by the likes of Ferguson and Wenger because we rarely if ever manage to beat them same with Liverpool.
I don't believe Moyes leaving now would help us as the new manager would be left with a sqaud that only know how to play the Moyes way. I do agree that there's a good chance we'll be a worse side if Moyes leaves before the summer.
Keith Edmunds
29 Posted 20/12/2011 at 22:00:22
29 Posted 20/12/2011 at 22:00:22
Roman I take exception to you calling my Saint Kilda Redshite!
Peter Fearon
30 Posted 20/12/2011 at 22:05:28
30 Posted 20/12/2011 at 22:05:28
Ryan: Hang in there. You and thousands of others like you are the future of the club. I have a 16-year-old son who has been raised an Evertonian and it's tough enough keeping him on the straight and narrow blue path the way things are. There will be better days ahead and they will be sweeter for these bitter years. In the meantime, it's important to savor the small victories - like the next one against Swansea. COYB.
Roman Sidey
31 Posted 20/12/2011 at 22:00:05
31 Posted 20/12/2011 at 22:00:05
Thanks for correcting yourself, Nick. I was going to reply, but I've put up with people saying my name wrong for my whole life and have learnt to not respond anymore when it happens.
I agree totally about having to know the past and all that, but there is nothing wrong with being in the present. I gives good perspective, and an unclouded view of things sometimes. Trust me, I'm a history teacher, so I know how the discipline is supposed to be executed.
So what if he can't remember Per "someone told me I'm a footballer" Kroldrup (that's an assumption that you don't even know is true)? It doesn't mean the boy can't see that the football we are playing right now, and the things that David Moyes has control over, are a complete shambles, and not good enough for a Premier League club.
I have been reading articles today about other clubs, and I think Aston Villa are in the same situation as us, and I know that a lot of people on here use other clubs to defend what Moyes is doing and has done. For me, though, I don't give a rats arse what other clubs are doing.
I want Mike Bassett type quotes. For any team, the manager's statement at the beginning of the season should be: "Our aim is to win the league."
If that isn't your aim, you don't deserve the job.
I agree totally about having to know the past and all that, but there is nothing wrong with being in the present. I gives good perspective, and an unclouded view of things sometimes. Trust me, I'm a history teacher, so I know how the discipline is supposed to be executed.
So what if he can't remember Per "someone told me I'm a footballer" Kroldrup (that's an assumption that you don't even know is true)? It doesn't mean the boy can't see that the football we are playing right now, and the things that David Moyes has control over, are a complete shambles, and not good enough for a Premier League club.
I have been reading articles today about other clubs, and I think Aston Villa are in the same situation as us, and I know that a lot of people on here use other clubs to defend what Moyes is doing and has done. For me, though, I don't give a rats arse what other clubs are doing.
I want Mike Bassett type quotes. For any team, the manager's statement at the beginning of the season should be: "Our aim is to win the league."
If that isn't your aim, you don't deserve the job.
Col Noon
32 Posted 20/12/2011 at 22:12:26
32 Posted 20/12/2011 at 22:12:26
Ryan I am sorry but get used to it my friend. The current regime are dragging us through the gutter and slowly but surely out of top flight football. This deadly double act of kenwright and Moyes are keeping eachother safe at the expense of the club; fans regardless of age, location and past memories are being taken for fools and fed lies by the people who call the shots. Lies upon lies have gotten us where we are now and with Kenwright calling the shots investment will never happen. Now onto Moyes : Sadly a very good manager who has basically become stale, outdated, and looks berift of any hope ( This is BEFORE a ball is even kicked). I honestly fear for our premiership safety with him in charge and his criminal lack of tactical no how against poor sides. I once had support for the man and would defend him to the hilt, but my faith and patience have been broken ( I have stated the reasons for this on previous posts). I struggle to see any positives at all coming out of Goodison Park and I have supported the team a lot longer than you. Its looking bleak so buckle up for a bumpy ride because no amount of:
COYB
NSNO
IMWT
ETID
Will help. We have stagnated and badly at that, this will not change any time soon. Merry Christmas from EFC mate.
COYB
NSNO
IMWT
ETID
Will help. We have stagnated and badly at that, this will not change any time soon. Merry Christmas from EFC mate.
James Flynn
38 Posted 21/12/2011 at 00:44:06
38 Posted 21/12/2011 at 00:44:06
So young shaver, Ryan, let me try it this way. You're passionate or you're not. We are in a down time rooting for the Club. But, either you and me are in or we're not.
Anyone can be for a Club when things are good. Anyone. Look at ManU fans. 2 points off 1st place and you've never seen a more bitching, whining lot.
Seems to me, your OP indicates you're quite the passionate fan. Otherwise why spend the time posting here.
You blame Moyes. I don't. Things are near to turning with ownership. My opinion, new ownership will retain Moyes, throw some bucks his way and see what he does with them.
My believe is that he'll do well. What do you think he'll do with added funding?
By the way Ryan, all these heated impassioned responses to your post? Answer some.
Anyone can be for a Club when things are good. Anyone. Look at ManU fans. 2 points off 1st place and you've never seen a more bitching, whining lot.
Seems to me, your OP indicates you're quite the passionate fan. Otherwise why spend the time posting here.
You blame Moyes. I don't. Things are near to turning with ownership. My opinion, new ownership will retain Moyes, throw some bucks his way and see what he does with them.
My believe is that he'll do well. What do you think he'll do with added funding?
By the way Ryan, all these heated impassioned responses to your post? Answer some.
Eric Myles
39 Posted 21/12/2011 at 04:59:55
39 Posted 21/12/2011 at 04:59:55
Richard #1, you want to torture the lad more, St. Kilda, the Everton of Aussie Rules!
They're my team by the way.
They're my team by the way.
Ryan Rosenberg
40 Posted 21/12/2011 at 05:33:09
40 Posted 21/12/2011 at 05:33:09
Richard #1: As a Richmond supporter, I have a lot to look forward to, Dustin Martin is our Ross Barkley you could say.
Tony #7: The point is the 4-5-1 is so repetitive and it completely unbalances our attack, because of Cahill. Moyes leaves things too late, and then does his baffling substitutions. Gosling may not be what Barkley is, but how could you be satisfied with him leaving for nothing? And that's not an opinion, it is okay to say it when it is the right time, not after losing to QPR and Stoke.
Nick: I may have only followed Everton since 07/08, but you have to understand that what's happening right NOW is totally unacceptable. I probably have high expectations after seeing us make Europe a few times, but it is incredibly frustrating watching us today when you know that with a little tweaking, we could be in a better position. The thing is Moyes never changes anything and he is completely mistake prone. I watch every Everton game, I know how we play, how other teams play, so don't question my knowledge. We have quality, and Moyes does not know how to utilise it when it is so easy to.
Tony #7: The point is the 4-5-1 is so repetitive and it completely unbalances our attack, because of Cahill. Moyes leaves things too late, and then does his baffling substitutions. Gosling may not be what Barkley is, but how could you be satisfied with him leaving for nothing? And that's not an opinion, it is okay to say it when it is the right time, not after losing to QPR and Stoke.
Nick: I may have only followed Everton since 07/08, but you have to understand that what's happening right NOW is totally unacceptable. I probably have high expectations after seeing us make Europe a few times, but it is incredibly frustrating watching us today when you know that with a little tweaking, we could be in a better position. The thing is Moyes never changes anything and he is completely mistake prone. I watch every Everton game, I know how we play, how other teams play, so don't question my knowledge. We have quality, and Moyes does not know how to utilise it when it is so easy to.
Ryan Rosenberg
41 Posted 21/12/2011 at 05:53:59
41 Posted 21/12/2011 at 05:53:59
Tony at the end I was talking about the media
Anto Byrne
42 Posted 21/12/2011 at 05:58:56
42 Posted 21/12/2011 at 05:58:56
Oh we are Everton
A fighting fury
We're from Everton
In any weather you'll see us with a grin
Risking head and shin
If we're behind then never mind
We'll fight and fight and win
For we're from Everton
We never weaken till the final whisltle's gone
Like the Everton of old
We're strong and we're bold
For we're from Everton
We're from Everton
A fighting fury
We're from Everton
In any weather you'll see us with a grin
Risking head and shin
If we're behind then never mind
We'll fight and fight and win
For we're from Everton
We never weaken till the final whisltle's gone
Like the Everton of old
We're strong and we're bold
For we're from Everton
We're from Everton
Dave Wilson
43 Posted 21/12/2011 at 10:44:11
43 Posted 21/12/2011 at 10:44:11
Dont agree with any of that Ryan.
Its not the formations that cost you games its the quality of the players you can put on the pitch.
The 4-5-1 you say "has never worked"
works for all the other managers - you know, the ones who have better players- and it HAS worked for Moyes in the past, it worked when we gave Man U
Its not the formations that cost you games its the quality of the players you can put on the pitch.
The 4-5-1 you say "has never worked"
works for all the other managers - you know, the ones who have better players- and it HAS worked for Moyes in the past, it worked when we gave Man U
Dave Wilson
44 Posted 21/12/2011 at 11:03:34
44 Posted 21/12/2011 at 11:03:34
a Hammering at GP - Just before we sent them packing in the semi final. It worked when Ancelotti could beat him, it worked when Mancini tried time and again in vain to get a point against us and it always worked against Arry as Moyes has battered him in their head to heads down the years.
You are right of course you cant allow your best players to leave. and not replace them, but that wasnt Moyes`s doing.and regardless of formation, we are a poorer team having lost their services
I know what its like to get hammered from the guys at school - everyone my age does.
But its not Moyes or Kenwright you support mate, its Everton. Managers and chairman come and go and hard as it is to believe These two are no different.
Stick with it . .as if you have a choice
You are right of course you cant allow your best players to leave. and not replace them, but that wasnt Moyes`s doing.and regardless of formation, we are a poorer team having lost their services
I know what its like to get hammered from the guys at school - everyone my age does.
But its not Moyes or Kenwright you support mate, its Everton. Managers and chairman come and go and hard as it is to believe These two are no different.
Stick with it . .as if you have a choice
Tony J Williams
45 Posted 21/12/2011 at 11:11:02
45 Posted 21/12/2011 at 11:11:02
"Jeez Tony J Williams (wonder what the J stands for?) you ought to win a big prize for misrepresentation of a post and less of the condescension next time please: ?When you start working ?" - Irony is not dead.
You condescend my name then tell me to not be condescending, I love it!!
He is 15 years old, do you think he is in full-time employment? Have I been transported back to the Victorian ages?
I will cherry pick the facts that aren't Moyes's fault, because that was the whole intention of my post. To pick up on the parts I don't agree with. I agree with some of Ryan's points, not all of them, so why should I post something that just agrees with his points. It's not a back slapping forum, it;s about debates.
"This is the present TJW and it is not working, and we are sandwiched in 14th between West Brom and Queens Park Rangers." - It's worked 5 times this season, so it does work and over the 10 years he has been here it has worked more than it hasn't.
By the way the J is for John and is a way of identifying me from the other Tony Williams on here, it's not a pretentious thing.
You condescend my name then tell me to not be condescending, I love it!!
He is 15 years old, do you think he is in full-time employment? Have I been transported back to the Victorian ages?
I will cherry pick the facts that aren't Moyes's fault, because that was the whole intention of my post. To pick up on the parts I don't agree with. I agree with some of Ryan's points, not all of them, so why should I post something that just agrees with his points. It's not a back slapping forum, it;s about debates.
"This is the present TJW and it is not working, and we are sandwiched in 14th between West Brom and Queens Park Rangers." - It's worked 5 times this season, so it does work and over the 10 years he has been here it has worked more than it hasn't.
By the way the J is for John and is a way of identifying me from the other Tony Williams on here, it's not a pretentious thing.
Stephen Kenny
46 Posted 21/12/2011 at 11:46:15
46 Posted 21/12/2011 at 11:46:15
Roman,
You wouldn't admit your an Evertonian to a room full of Geordies.
We've won more in a decade than they've won in thier history.
Bad, bad form!!!
You wouldn't admit your an Evertonian to a room full of Geordies.
We've won more in a decade than they've won in thier history.
Bad, bad form!!!
Steve Pugh
47 Posted 21/12/2011 at 11:53:55
47 Posted 21/12/2011 at 11:53:55
If we should only be concerned with the present why do so many people compare the current Everton side with the Golden Age of the club? Surely both sides of an argument should be allowed equal rights.
If Jags is so crap why do Arsenal want him?
If Jags is so crap why do Arsenal want him?
Nick Entwistle
48 Posted 21/12/2011 at 19:47:42
48 Posted 21/12/2011 at 19:47:42
Hey Ryan, its not totally unacceptable what's happening now (on the pitch that is) because we're 12th. Piss poor that, but 12th is all. It shows what Moyes is doing now is not working. Not in the long run, just not working now.
I penned an article called David Moyes Is Everton about three or four seasons back when people were calling for his head, but we went on and had a fine old time.
When I've questioned your age, it is more to do with being not so familiar with the ups and down of Moyes' tenure and surrounding issues, and how the league itself evolves over this time and our place in it. At 15, I don't think you would have that scope, but yes, we are piss poor now, but I know Moyes is the best man... it will turn around, I've asked Santa!
I penned an article called David Moyes Is Everton about three or four seasons back when people were calling for his head, but we went on and had a fine old time.
When I've questioned your age, it is more to do with being not so familiar with the ups and down of Moyes' tenure and surrounding issues, and how the league itself evolves over this time and our place in it. At 15, I don't think you would have that scope, but yes, we are piss poor now, but I know Moyes is the best man... it will turn around, I've asked Santa!
Roman Sidey
49 Posted 21/12/2011 at 22:12:41
49 Posted 21/12/2011 at 22:12:41
Stephen, if you saw the pub we were in, you wouldn't hold it against me. I'm not Scouse, shit, I'm not even English, so when in England, I know to keep my mouth shut at the right times. And my point was, we are slowly becoming a team full of our own rejects. And, actually you're wrong. We haven't won more than them in the last decade.
Keith, sorry, but I just really hate St Kilda. They are a joke. 2010???
Ryan, I feel for you in that both teams you support are a tough gig. Everton, we all know is very frustrating to support now. But Richmond??? They honestly ARE Everton of the AFL/VFL. 32 years of a rebuilding phase, and a very, very good past.
Keith, sorry, but I just really hate St Kilda. They are a joke. 2010???
Ryan, I feel for you in that both teams you support are a tough gig. Everton, we all know is very frustrating to support now. But Richmond??? They honestly ARE Everton of the AFL/VFL. 32 years of a rebuilding phase, and a very, very good past.
Tony J Williams
50 Posted 22/12/2011 at 09:23:03
50 Posted 22/12/2011 at 09:23:03
"We've won more in a decade than they've won in thier history" - "A" decade, not "the last" decade
Roman Sidey
51 Posted 22/12/2011 at 21:10:12
51 Posted 22/12/2011 at 21:10:12
Corrected. Sorry.
Brian Denton
52 Posted 22/12/2011 at 21:39:02
52 Posted 22/12/2011 at 21:39:02
Tony J Williams/Stephen Kenny, that factlet didn't sound right to me, so I did a minimum of research. Probably less than a minute. Now, Newcastle have won the title four times in their history. In which decade did we win five championships? I think you need to recast this statistic to achieve the effect you want: something along the lines of "You can double Newcastle's Championships, and we've still won more.". That sort of thing, yes?
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1 Posted 20/12/2011 at 13:55:26