The Future

Hear hear! But there are 2 problems with that I'm afraid.

1) Moyes couldn't build a team around those players if he was given all the players in the world to choose from

2) They will be sold in the very near future as they are now the only assets remaining worth anything like what we need to survive going into administration.

Huge sigh! Sad but ultimately true.

Moyes out, Kenwright out.

Thanks, Fran for a positive article - a nice change on TW. You have articulated very well what I have always believed. If there is one thing that Everton have done well - it is the youth academy - the envy of the footballing world. But, do we have the management (the owner and the manager) who can take advantage of what we have and take the club to the next level? With Moyes & Kenwright, I doubt it. We don't need mega-bucks - we need a smart businessman at the helm and a manager who likes to play the beautiful game. We could well see a team consisting of: Baines, Jagielka, Heitinga, Coleman, Rodwell, Barkley, Fellaini, Drenthe, Velios, McAleny (and a GK, of course!). People may say that this team would get swamped by the big boys, but they can only get better with playing together. And remember, most of this team has played at one point or another for their national team.

Good one, Fran.

Ajay, if Moyes put out a team like that then attendances might just start going back up again. If they are good enough they are old enough, and they are good enough. Alan Hansen (Another miserable defensive minded Scot wouldn't you believe) famously said of the Man United Team SAF put out that consisted of the very young Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles, Sharpe and all that ........"You'll never win anything with kids........", the rest as they say is history. I'm afraid Moyes is no SAF, one of the reasons why many of those listed will be on their way, the other is Kenwright and our finances.

In a nutshell this is why the BU have no chance, acceptance of being a feeder club providing youngsters intermittent Prem experience for a year or two before being off loaded is the best a section of our support can hope for.

Never mind BK is still looking 24/7, maybe he will find that Mansoor/Abramovich and avoid what you suggest.

I remember West Ham following this model.

"Baines, Jagielka, Heitinga, Coleman, Rodwell, Barkley, Fellaini, Drenthe, Velios, McAleny" - Which one of those aren't getting games?

Just because a manager doesn't pick the formation or team YOU want to see, it doesn't make it a poor/wrong team.

I agree that youth is the way forward but it doesn't necessarily have to be just the youth we already have.

Being skint doesn't mean you can't acquire new players. Given our parlous financial state, we need to pursue that marvellous 21st century virtue - recycling. In other words sell to buy.

If, and I know it might be a big 'if', we can keep the banks at bay in January I'd be happy to sell Rodwell who to my mind is less of a prospect than Barkley as long as it was done on our terms... along with Bily, who I like but is never going to make it in the Premier League.

Tell Chelski we want Josh McEachran and however much it will take to prise two players such as Ever Banega and Jelavic away from Valencia and Rangers respectively. (Everyone will have their own views on the players we need, I'm talking more about the principle - flair in the middle and power and potency up front.)

Get Drenthe signed up on a longer contract.

And with what's left, purchase and fit a shiny new pair of cojones for Moyes so he might employ the aforementioned in a progressive formation.

Then we might just see some entertaining football and a little bit of momentum once again.

"What is our goal/" Aye there's the rub. Our goal according to Bill and his sidekick, Dave, is to survive to the end of this season, then hope we make enough money by selling..... (you fill in the blank) and then we'll do the same next season. In each game the goal is ironically not to score lots of goals, but to hold on to a point. We have the negative goal of staying in the Premier League and that's about it.
I don't for a moment believe Bill's goal is to find a buyer for the club and I don't believe Moyes sets out to win games, he sets out not to lose them which is not the same thing.

I'm glad to see a dawning realisation that a takeover doesn't necessarily mean any way in which the club is run. The 99.99% probability is that if we get a buyer (can there be such idiots around in the current economic climate) then it will not result in a significant increase in transfer funds. On a given income you can pay very high wages or buy new players but not both. We can only survive by selling our top players or reducing our wage bill. It is critical that we keep producing great potential as we do but it will be to sell them not to become a better team for having them.

Does anybody seriously believe that we have a realistic chance of increasing our status by being bought by somebody who will spend enough to meet our running costs, tens of millions each year in purchases and some loose change for a new ground?

Martin,
I always find it funny when supporters of BK et al use words like "dawning realisation"......

The right owners will have a strategy for progress on and off the pitch and funds to invest.... all virtues conspicuosly absent over the past 10yrs and more.

There have been points in the recent past when even a modest outlay would've bridged the gap between us, and those finishing just ahead of us. Our small squad has often been exposed by injuries, and opportunities missed to move on. Unfortunately the current custodians couldn't or wouldn't fund any additions.

Similarly the existing board have continually failed to address the stadium issues. The pitiful corporate and exec provision alone represent a massive untapped revenue stream. The horrendous number of obstructed views also acts to deter many fans.... again affecting revenue. They have had well over 10yrs and have delivered nothing.... demonstrating extreme dereliction of duty and incompetence as regards both KD and DK.

The right owners will be ones who can address those issues, and deliver..... as has happened elsewhere.

When managed properly, the club's prospects and status will reflect a far rosier picture than that under the current one-trick ponies who have contributed little more than soundbites and failure.

I'm continually amazed how any supporters of the fourth most successful club in English football can accept that we can continue without a takeover and the removal of Blue Bill. The deteriorating financial state of the club will inevitably see the departure of the better players and the influx of inferior replacements.

The old excuse that poor old Bill can't find a buyer because of the world financial crisis just doesn't make sense. How about the Qatar Investment Authority for a start? They've acquired Malaga and Paris SG, clubs with far less potential than Everton, and I've no doubt that we would have been bought by Sheikh Mansour in preference to Manchester City, but he wasn't given the opportunity. Why? Because Bill needs to satisfy his gigantic ego and remain in charge.

Great article Fran, couldnt agree more with your assessment. Manchester United prospered during the 90's from the glut of talent that came through during that period. If we are continually forced to develop and then sell on the likes of Rooney, Rodwell and Barkley then we will always be seen as a feeder club and unlikely to ever challenge the top four / five again. I believe though that this is where we are at and my 7-year-old son is asking me why he can't support Manchester City!

"..despite having no faith in the manager or 40% or the playing staff.....there is another element to my confidence in our potential: Youth."

Why do you think you have the confidence in youth?

DAVID MOYES

Moyes took one look around the place, at the league we are in, then the bank statement, and decided we needed to build a state-of-the-art training facility to give us the best chance of developing youth.

The reasons for Moyes's selections are not always apparent but we in the stands are only armed with some of the facts.

What's inscrutable is that he's sold players for good money that he's bought low and he's developed international class players out of youth and without shouting about it, he knows he's got the next wave about to come through... He can't let on (Barkley) cos he'll have every man and his dog bending the chairman's ear.

He's playing a political game and sometimes the fans take what he says at face value a little too much for my liking.

I agree that youth is the way forward. I don't agree that it's a case of just throwing them in.

All these people clamoring for the youngsters to start must appreciate that just because they show glimpses of talent and lots of enthusiasm does not necessarily mean they are ready or good enough for sustained runs in the first team. Moyes sees the players train every day and judges accordingly.

There's not much point saying Ferguson had the balls too because he had the most gifted set of youngsters in the history of the Premier League. How many Academy products are playing regularly at Man Utd now?

Well said, Sam and amply demonstrated by the "Coleman must start", "Vellios must start" and "Barkley must start" brigade.

When they have started they have been shown to be not 'yet' good enough.

Not to mention Fellaini, Bily, Rodwell and others who have not performed to expectations.

For those posters in Liverpool, Joe Parky, Derek Temple and Duncan McKenzie are in the Capital Building/Echo building signing authgraphs & photos.

In case anyone is interested

Richard #7.

Are there fans out there who honestly agree with you? Don't get me wrong: I am no Kenwright apologist but I do realistically think that he is trying to find a buyer. What sort of buyer is questionable, I think. If Bill is holding out for a multi-billionaire in the mold of Chelsea or City, he will be waiting for a long, long time.

Moyes is a bit safety-first, but considering we have the weakest front line since Steve Watson was up front, he would argue it is needs must surely as we are not going to regularly score more than one goal.

Love the optimism of the article but some is a little misplaced. McAleny and Baxter have not shown anything to suggest that with nurturing they will make the grade. Due to Barkley's injury, he has barely played reserve football; looking back to Blackburn we can't rely on him yet. Nevertheless, I think that Cahill is a spent force and Saha must surely follow, preferably in Jan, to become impact subs.

Tactics Devoid Dour Davey has not got the ability to produce a Trophy winning team his only aim is not to lose or not to lose by too many.

I'd combine the OP with Tom's (9) points.

Here in the States, the "Big Money" -"Small Money" sports story has been on-going for decades.

The team that closest parallels Fran's view is baseball's Minnesota Twins. They're decades into signing/developing/keeping youth and teaching players the same way from their bottom minor league team to the MLB Club. And they've had success doing it while building a sustainable fan base in a tough part of the US to do so.

So it can be done. Seems Moyes has been successful getting the players in. Combining that with the points Tom (9) makes, no reason we can't see success growing out of that.

Except we don't have the ownership group in to shore up the business end of things.

I am all for Kenwright selling up and leaving Goodison in the hands of someone who can provide the cash for us not only surviving at this level, but stepping up and becoming a force again. I don?t think it will happen soon, largely because I fear Kenwright will not make a loss on the club he ?loves? therefore no one in their right mind will buy it at an inflated price and with millions of pounds of debt.

We need to remember businessmen who have made millions if not billions in their careers have not done it with sentimental deals or out of love. It is through tough negotiation etc (cue images of Michael Douglas in Wall Street). We won?t get a buyer at the price Kenwright wants.

There is a solution though, and it is based on a model that has a proven track record. Google any article about the club and financial structure of Udinese and Lille and you will see clubs built on a budget out of stringent and excellent scouting networks. The best players inevitably move on, Sanchez went to Barca for 30+ mill this season but that money goes to balance the books and find another 5 or 6 players from South America, central Europe or elsewhere who can come in and fill the gap.

Admittedly I am no football expert but if Everton had as good a scouting network as Lille or Udinese, I?m pretty sure we could provide a more lucrative deal for perspective players than some of the other clubs based on this model. Even if we are selling ourselves as a stepping stone to the best clubs in the world, surely we could work on this basis?

The Future-Bleak move onto the next post.

Seriously the comparisons with the Beckham, Scholes Giggs, Sharp, Neville is spurious, firstly they were supremely talented and that many players coming through the ranks of any club at the same time is a once in a generation thing. Secondly they were bedded in to a team with packed with great players, that was winning everything in sight.

But New Year's resolution to all TWebbers: stop slaggin Bill Kenwright, slag the whole board, he's just a figurehead that owns 36-37% of the shares. Seriously would anybody be happy if he sold his shares to the rest of the board? As the Americans say-we need regime change.

The Future in one word - Administration

I honestly believe the only reason we have got long term contracts on our better players is to increase their value so we can sell them on to appease the banks. From what i have read this is the only way we we can survive.Great being a blue innit...

Tom

How would you quantify that new owners would have better strategy and vision than the existing owners and where do "funds to invest" come from with no return? Do you mean somebody willing to throw their own hard earned money away on an economic basket case like EFC. Come on, put a few grand of your own money in if you think that all EFC needs is investment.

That's the "realisation", it's that a changed owner who throws a billion dollars away to make us great again is fantasy. I also am not a BK supporter but (although yes, the guy is a buffon and the worst front man a company could possibly have) he is only one of a much larger team at EFC and there is not a shred of evidence only wishful thinking that simply changing the owners will guarantee success. Can I point you at Blackburn? They just changed owners and became worse, they once had a sugar daddy and went down when he stopped spending.

EFC can only be what it can be sustainably and that may well be at a significantly lower level than we are now. We were once a sign of the vibrancy of a thriving industrial city but now we are a sign of its decay (see also Newcastle, Sunderland, Rangers, Celtic, Leeds). Successful EPL clubs are owned by Russian criminals, ME Oil Money and venture capitalists (sorry, Arsenal apart who I have massive respect for even though they have the massive advantage of being in London).

We are what we are and in my opinion the real millstone around our necks is the totally unrealistic expectations of some of our supporters, Yes we sold off the silverware but why? To buy players to try to achieve progress that's why and it failed. That was plan A and where we are now is plan B - survival. The concept that all we need is a new owner or manager is the ultimate in hope and wishful thinking.

EFC is in bunker mentality mode and our vociferous minority is making this ever more. The answer is always communication and constructive dialogue and that is what the BU must provide. When they do that rational people like myself will join them. Remember EFC doesn't owe anybody a succesful club and the only people who decide its destiny are the owners. It must listen to its customers (us) but if it wants to run the club into the ground then that is its own business. If there were eviddence that the club was run corrubptly or that the directors were depriving the club of resources by taking out too much then I would be on the march but there is no evidence of this. All I see is a club that doesn#t have the resources to compete at the top level trying to do so and failing.

Drew O'Neall, you can pat Tactics Devoid Dour Davey on the back for our youth prospects as much as you like. The sad truth of the matter is, transferring players in, picking up on talent early and basically creating assets for the club to sell does not a good manager make.

I said it a few years ago, that Moyes would be a good assistant, or even scout, but he has shown in the last couple of years that he really can't take these players much further.

Does anyone really think that Rooney would be as good as he is had he worked with Moyes his whole career, as opposed to the near on eight seasons he's had with SAF?

Does no one realise that the potential that Rodwell showed 2-3 years ago is nowhere near being reached now that he has been working with Moyes and the first team?

Can anyone actually say that it wouldn't have taken a genius to come into Moyes' job and realised that we needed youth?

The best piece I have read on toffeeweb. Congratulations sir.

The saddest thing about Everton at the moment is that we have no "plan" for the future.

And I applaud your vision as it is mine too. I have no desire to be the next Man City. We need to use youth and accept it warts and all.

Roman,

Some good points and I fundamentally agree about Rooney, though it pains me to admit a player would develop more away from Goodison Park.

It didn't take a genius to realise we needed youth but it has taken courage and conviction and the guile of a politician to see the strategy through and retain the services of international players in to the bargain

The fact is, whetever you care to believe, or whatever Moyes says (again he shrewdly denies this), Everton ARE a selling club.

Listen to the Mike Parry / Rob Daniels interview on TalkSport which you can find a link to on this website: Everton have sold all their assets; "The only assets left are running around in shorts on a Saturday afternoon" How can we therefore be anything other than a selling club? By definition, the remit of the manager of a selling club is asset creation and sale.

As an aside, a positive by-product is I honestly believe that whenever a decent young player is identified, Everton are favourites to get him.

"Does anyone really think that Rooney would be as good as he is had he worked with Moyes his whole career, as opposed to the near on eight seasons he's had with SAF?" - It's impossible to say because there are so many issues surrounding his development.

He now trains with better players so will learn more from them than he would have from Radzinski, Campbell and McFadden, Kilbane, Le Tie, Linderoth.

I will say one thing, I enjoyed watching him play a lot more when he first came onto the scene than I do now, niothing to do with going to United. He was more of a firecracker, more direct. Now he plays on the wing and in midfield. which is quite ironic because would have been slated if he played him on the wing, but Ferguson is a genius to do it.

"Does no one realise that the potential that Rodwell showed 2-3 years ago is nowhere near being reached now that he has been working with Moyes and the first team?" - What actualy potential was that? One decent goal against United? He is a decent player but bigged up way passed his actual talent.

Tony (27) - Rooney's as good as he is because of Rooney, not Ferguson. I give more credit to Rooney's parents, actually, than to any manager.

I agree James, he would be as good as he is now wherever he went.....because he was always going to go to one of the top teams and he has that inherent ability in him, some things just cannot be taught.

Tony, I don't think that Ferguson is a genius for playing Rooney on the wing. He usually only does that when he really has to. Rooney's best position is centre forward, and he usually plays there.

Whatever, I think he would have peaked and hit a plateau under Moyes, if you don't think that, then that's your opinion.

You're arguing for argument's sake when you dismiss the Rodwell issue. Another example of Moyes insisting on playing a player where he wants him, rather than where the player supposedly is meant to play, and them going backwards.

Drew, you and I are in agreement on most things I think, just with the final point taking a different tack. "

[T]ransferring players in, picking up on talent early and basically creating assets for the club to sell does not a good manager make."

I put that in there because I think the same in that Moyes is very good at these things, but that does not mean that he is a very good team manager.

Once more I agree, Everton are selling club. The problem is, now that the players are all we have left, there's too much emotion in selling the right ones. I think if Chelsea really are interested in Rodwell, we have to sell him, although I'd rather see Fellaini go than the boy. If neither of them, sell Jagielka, play Distin with Jonny, and slowly bring Rodders into the CB position whilst Dis is coming to an end.

Sorry read Gisele Bündchen - tropical beach and needed a cold shower ............

But I generally agree with the article, build the team around the upcoming youth and continue to develop more talent through the academy.

Not going to happen with Moyes in charge, back to Gisele hmmmmmmmm ....... need another cold shower :)

I completely agree with Tony, Rooney was far more exciting to watch while at Everton. I thought the year Rooney came on the scene the 3 best players in the league were Henry, Okocha and Rooney. Almost every time he played for Everton he tried things and did things that could take your breath away and nearly every goal he scored was a wonder goal, he would have me on the edge of my seat. Now he has been coached to not take the same chances, opting to pass backwards and sideways rather than having a run at the opposing defenders.

Lets not forget while Rooney was at Everton he was the best player at the European Championships until he broke his foot. The first game he outshone even the great ZZ until he was substituted for Heskey and ZZ was allowed to turn the game single handed. When was the last time Rooney dominated a tournament like he did that tournament? I miss seeing Rooney bursting past defenders with pace power and skill.

I actually though he was much better playing on the last man rather than having his back to goal and running onto flick on?s from Duncan and Campbell rather than in ?the hole?.

I think he would have been much better under Moyes, the only improvements I have seen from Rooney since being at Man Utd is his finishing and composure in front of goal but that would have come with experience and time anyway.

As for Rodwell, I have never rated him, he has been overhyped from day one and had shown nothing to deserve the early plaudits he got. Gosling would be slagged off every week but Rodwell was lauded as the new Beckenbauer. Both were as poor as each other as far as I could see but Gosling seemed to offer more goal threat.

It seems that Rodwell hasn?t progressed under Moyes but really people have just been slow to realise he was never that good in the first place. Barkley has far more potential and talent than Rodwell.

Roman - (30) - "Whatever, I think he would have peaked and hit a plateau under Moyes," The same plateau he's hit with Ferguson, probably better.

And sooner.

Roman (24 and everywhere else you post) - Regarding "Tactics Devoid Dour Davey".

No one else in the Moyes Out platoon (MOP) has caught on. How about TD3 instead? That's catchy, no? Makes it sound like a diagnosed illness (ADD, etc).

Maybe then, we Reality-Challenged Moyeists (RCMs) can come to the bright light you and fellow MPOs see so clearly.

Ian (32) - Everything about Rooney at EFC I agree with. Too bad the money wasn't right. Funny how Moyes gets slagged for Rooney's departure. I mean, really, imagine a manager with this once in a generation talent having to deal with, "Shit! They want me to sell this kid for the money".

Fucking Moyes, having to put up with THAT bullshit from the same ownership we're suffering now. A once in a generation talent like Rooney and he had to sell him.

Kenright OUT. Should've been right then and there.

Ian Tunstead...Playing off the last man, thats the whole point of the Moyes out-ers.

Nobody plays off the last man, many a time nobody plays within 10 yds of the last man in Davy's keep it tight don't comit forward.

It's about the emphisis, the approach, ( aussies will know this one ) The whole vibe.

Watch the Swansea Game with you finger on the pause button, when we get into the border of the 2nd third and the last third, see the gap between their back line and what laughingly passes for our front.

You can't give guys a 10 yd start over 30yds. Great for defending from the front when they get the ball though.

We don't have anybody with an attacking idea in the whole 1st team coaching staff. Our free kicks on the edge of the box are too close for any one except 1 in a 100 to get it up and down in 20 yds. Thats if it cleared the first man at all... poor plan A no plan B, we hear that a lot about Moyes.

Forget the Ground, the board, Money, etc although they are there now they require med to long term solutions.

Moyeses too too defensive attitude is a short term fixable problem...

CHANGE THE EMPHISIS EVER SO SLIGHTLY.

Derek (36) - We got into it more yesterday. To me, the players looked stronger.

I think we're about to cut loose in the next few weeks. Players settling in, LD arriving.

Moyes has stated he sees Landon back on flanks. OK. He's good there.

I think Landon should be put into the "Arteta" role with Drenthe and whomever on the other flank.

Good times approach.

Everyone's missing the point. Okay, we're apparently about to "go on a run". Why do we always wait until Christmas to do this? Poor management!!!

Derek, is it the "vibe of it. Not that's just it, it's the vibe."
Made me smile.

Roman, One win?? who says we're going on a run??

Tell him he's dreaming.

James, like I say go on the pause button and see how many times we have some one ( or heaven forfend TWO ) on the last man.

Both Drenthe and Donovan should, if and when selected, which is not a given, be on the last man in the spaces between the fullbacks and centre backs and be using their pace in an even race not giving 5 or 10 yds start to defenders.

Derek

while you`ve got your finger on the pause button, take at look at Swansea`s set up.
Time and again I looked across the pitch to find they had 11 men in and around their own box. That wasnt for a corner, it was in open play !

Yet people are now calling for Rodgers to come in because MOYES is negative ?

You show me a coach who will give Straq the brains, or Saha the legs to get across the defender at the near post, find space between the center backs or pull onto the 5.4ft full back at the far post and I`lll show you a miracle worker

A blunt instrument Derek mate, Give Moyes RVP and we would fly up the table . .until of course, Kenwright sold him

Derek, we dont have a striker with the ability and pace to be on the last man. When Moyes had it in Rooney he played him on the last man many a time.

I still watch the DVD the magnificent 7th from time to time and think wow, why doesnt Rooney do that kind of thing anymore for Man Utd. That kid at the time had far more potential than Messi. When i watch some of his games against Bolton and Blackburn, time after time he took the game to the opposition. He hasnt put in performances like that for years.

Roman, no one knows why we always have a bad start to the season, but i dont think that it helped this season that we played most of the top teams early on one after the other. For the QPR we had a few injuries and had to play Barkley and Rodwell on the wings. QPR had one chance and Jaggs made an individual error which cost us the game.

I think the two main reasons we have a bad start is that we will try to play football to please the fans but other teams give us more respect than they did when Moyes first took over and they park the bus. We dominate most of the teams below the top 7 but dont have the cutting edge or creativity to break them down. Eventually Moyes thinks sod this lets get more direct sod the football we need results, suddenly we go on a run.

The second reason i think is because Moyes is too loyal to his players and will only chnage his players because of injury and suspention. This is bad thing in some ways but i think its also a positive because his players will usually return that loyalty and give him 100% effort and good attitude to stay in the team. It usually takes him until christmas to find his best 11.

Martin,
It is quite easy to present circular arguments in response to any assertion, but you seem to have taken it to whole new level:

"How would you quantify that new owners would have better strategy and vision than the existing owners"

Better strategy? Are you joking? The current owners have demonstrated that they do not have a viable strategy or vision for the future at all. Everton FC are an "economic basket case" because they have been mismanaged via a completely unsustainable business model for years.... yet you ask that question in all seriousness? It's now run its course and we are at the end of the line. That's why we're now comfortably outspent by everyone, including clubs with much smaller turnovers and fanbases, and that's why the bank called in our debts and we haven't bought anyone. Because of this, and despite your scare tactics regarding Blackburn (who incidentally can still afford to buy our players), we have no choice. We simply cannot persist with the current owners, even if we wanted to (why we would, I have no idea). Unlike boards at practically every other club, they have brought nothing, invested nothing and added nothing, and as a consequence the club is nearer to administration than it has ever been in its history. If you read my posting..... I said the "right" owners. Which by defintion means ones that either have sufficient funds, or the experience, or both. Not just ones that can give the current lot their best pay-off. So yes, I too am concerned about who comes in..... but I at least recognise that ALL indicators show that this lot are finished, and have took us to the brink.

"a changed owner who throws a billion dollars away to make us great again is fantasy."

As ever, when anyone argues against new ownership, they make ridiculously inflated claims to back their argument.... because it's inevitably weak and nonsensical to start with. What isn't fantasy is that we can't stay the way we are.... end of story! But in terms of your assertion..... No new owner has had to throw billions at any club, and if they did that club would, in an instant be the most richly financed in the world. No-one, and certainly not the BU has insisted that this is the only criteria for new owners, so why are you, other than to muddy the waters? Due to Moyes performing miracles on a shoestring, we have been knocking at the door team-wise for several years, with NO additional investment in our tiny, and limited squad. Our turnover has been approx £80m even with pitiful performance in maximising revenue streams etc, and no new high-value capacity/facilities to earn for us. The current owners have continually demonstrated that they cannot/will not address the issues affecting this. Other clubs have shown what can be done on even less resources... our board have delivered nothing to increase matchday and commercial revenue. They have had serious opportunities and have wasted them, and then to add insult to injury, they chased inferior white elephants to facilitate their pay-day at our expense and to aid third parties.

"We were once a sign of the vibrancy of a thriving industrial city but now we are a sign of its decay (see also Newcastle, Sunderland, Rangers, Celtic, Leeds)."

Once again, you appear to be desperately trying to find ANY excuse for this board's failings. Why? How long does the list of incompetence and mistakes have to be? How do they explain away Kings Dock or the grossly wasteful and fundamentally flawed DK? Firstly, this city was at it's lowest ebb in the 80's, (and in many respects has been transformed since)...... Yet both clubs won everything back then, and LFC even dominated Europe. Secondly, all those clubs you mentioned, in those cities have greatly developed their stadia and maximised revenue streams..... If you compared ANY of their grounds with what they were like in the 80's they are completely unrecognisable and all boasting substantial high-earning facilities. Goodison (apart from the Park end) is practically unchanged. Nearly all of these clubs are now much bigger than they were then. Their attendances are now all bigger than ours.... none of this was the case in the 80's. Their boards showed true ambition and vision and built for the future, and their fanbases responded and grew accordingly. Thirdly, in Industrial and population terms Manchester is also a shadow of its former self, and certainly not in the same league as London.... yet their clubs are now ruling the roost....... all completely contradictory to your contrived and skewed theories.

Expectations are only a millstone when those that are responsible for delivery are incapable. The current incumbents have stripped the cupboard bare.... that is not a viable "plan A".... it is not a plan at all. Indeed, ANY penniless Evertonian could've followed this policy! It has left us in a precarious position, and other clubs (not all with billionaire owners by any means) have moved past us.

"When they do that rational people like myself will join them. Remember EFC doesn't owe anybody a succesful club and the only people who decide its destiny are the owners"

Martin, there is nothing rational in almost any point you have made. I also don't appreciate the "they don't owe us" remark. This again reflects the arrogance of not being able to effectively argue a valid point in favour of your stance. They in fact owe us a great deal, as we are the only ones funding the club's existence. We are the club, and without us it ceases to exist. There isn't a whole box of new supporters(customers?) waiting to replace us. It isn't like a choice of super-market, or any other service/product provider. I am a shareholder, but I don't regard myself as more of a stake-holder than any other match-going fan. The money I spent went to the previous share holder and not the club. The current owners are in effect negligent landlords who have contributed nothing towards the upkeep.... who have disrespected/lied to us on multiple occasions, and done nothing to ensure our future viability, selling off everything of value, creating nothing. We all invest our hard-earned into the club as season ticket holders and shareholders, and yes I have already spent thousands. We could all easily go to any pub and watch in comfort for free.... so the invest your own quip is misplaced, irrelevant and not an argument (especially when so many have already voted with their feet, meaning the club's coffers are several £m down on last year). The fanbase have contributed immeasurably more than the current board and always have. If we all suddenly stopped going you would soon see the administrators at the door. Conversely, if BK et al were abducted by aliens tomorrow, would the bank balance be affected at all?

The shareholders association had a meeting with Elstone only the other day.... the major cause for concern being the inability to explain the inordinate increase in figures loosely described as "operating costs" in recent years. Has any board in this club's history been questioned so often by its shareholders?...... Or are they also a insignificant minority in your opinion? They certainly are in the club's!

Tom, I'm really glad I took the time to read your post, the most coherent explanation of the dereliction of duty undertaken by our laughably titled Directors.

They have systematically dismantled this great club, sold off the family silver and are now right up shit creek.

How anyone can defend them defies belief.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Ian, 2nd paragraph - fair call. That was a very reasonable explanation. However I don't think that is the only reason we start seasons slowly. I do think that Moyes should be personally culpable for this year in year out pattern.

In your third paragraph you talk of both the positives and negatives of Moyes sticking with his favourites which, let's face it, is widely accepted (?). I appreciate that there are good and bad ramifications, but I really don't think that just giving 100% effort is enough anymore. Drenthe is the perfect example. Moyes has publicly questioned his work ethic via criticising his tracking back, yet he has been our most effective player this season.