Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Time to Blood the Youngsters
By Aidy Dews :: 27/12/2011
39 Comments (»Last)
The point raised elsewhere about the average age of the team is that Moyes as gone full circle as he said he intended on getting the average age down and wanted to build a younger side for the future, which in fairness he did... but, like I say, it's gone full circle.He said early on this season that he would have to build a new side with what he's got at his disposal and to be honest, he hasn't done that; he's still going with the old guard, his favourites instead of blooding the youngsters more and looking to the future, and his favourites are either well past it or not doing his loyalty to them any justice, probably cos they're just not quite good enough anymore?!
Now Moyes has written off our season a few times this year with such statements as "We'll be lucky to make the top 10" or "We've got to make sure we break the 40-point barrier to avoid any chances of being in a relegation fight," so, if he isn't really setting any high targets with comments like them, why isn't he using this season as a transitional one? Why not sstart blooding the youngsters he thinks are capable of making it at Everton and capable of doing well?.
I know people will say certain youngsters aren't ready and we can't throw all of them in at once but that's not what I'm talking about. Why not start them more or give them more game time than the odd 5 mins here and there so they can gain more match experience in the Prem and gain a bit more confidence at playing at Premier League level? ? The likes of Vellios, Barkley, Gueye and McAleny that he's given game time to and possibly thinks they're capable of making the grade?!
Injuries don't help but this was the season for me where we should've started to play the likes of Coleman at right-back like Moyesy said he would start using him more this season; start sticking with Jags and Heitinga in the centre; start playing Felli and Rodders in the centre of midfield; and possibly start using Barkley ahead of them either from the start or off the bench and for longer than 15, 20 mins; or if not there's always Cahill, Ossie or IMO, Bily to fall back on and play there.
Then we could use Drenthe right wing as he's more effective from there I think and with Coleman bombing on it looks a deadly combo, although it could leave us vulnerable at the back on the right but that's why you've got both Felli and Rodwell in there, two defence-first minded players to be disciplined and stay back and cover for the likes of Coleman and Baines when they go forward!
Then on the left you've got Gueye who could be a good option from there when he gains more experience and confidence. He's got a bit of pace, can pick a pass and cross the ball and would do well down the left IMO or if not him, swap him with Barkley and let him play that similar role to what Pienaar did in that he created a lot of space for Baines to move in and worked really well to get Baines in good areas to cross and create through some incisive passes.
Then you've got Vellios who in the years to come you would think will lead our attack if we don't find the money somewhere to buy a proven marksman. He's got all the attributes to be a good target man: tall, good in the air, good touch and technique, good link up play and awareness and he isn't slow either and can finish too and if he, like the others, fulfill their potential, they will be good players for us in the future IMO!
But, with blooding those players I mention, you've still got the nucleus of a good, experienced side. You've still got the likes of Howard, Jags, Heitinga and Felli as the spine of the team. We have the class of Baines down the left, Coleman to come through and be a good right-back. Drenthe if we could sign him permanently with his pace, tricks and direct running and then we have the youngsters to blood and have the experience of the likes of Cahill, Ossie, Saha and Bily if they don't leave to come in when things aren't going the youngsters' way, which they won't all the time as youngsters seem to be more inconsistent at first but they will only get over that through being played and gaining experience themselves!
Now I know Moyes won't do all this, not a chance of it, but we know we won't qualify for Europe and I don't think we'll get relegated either and with us mainly having the nucleus of an experienced line-up, why not blood these youngsters and start to build are team of the future now, this season, cos seriously, what's the worst that could happen?
I don't for one minute think that if we played the youngsters more regularly ? either start them or give them plenty of game time from the bench ? they wouldn't be so bad to get us in a relegation fight. I just don't see it; some of them youngsters have shown enough quality in spurts to suggest to me that they're going to be good players in the future... one, possibly two or three of them really good?! It's all about being played and gaining experience and finding that consistency... but you only gain all that through being played regularly!!!
With no money at his disposal and his favourites not getting any younger or better, what other choice as Moyes got? I'd rather he started to look and see things the way I've said than leave it too late, like pre-season next summer, to start just throwing these youngsters in at the deep end; blood 'em now and let them gain the experience that might just stand them in good stead for next season!!!
Reader Comments (39)
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Alasdair Mackay
2 Posted 27/12/2011 at 17:24:12
2 Posted 27/12/2011 at 17:24:12
I'm a firm believer in finding a balance between youth and experience and I feel we have that in most areas of the squad.
A lot has been made of the average age of the starting eleven against Sunderland, but if you look at the players who missed out through injury - Coleman, Rodwell, Fellaini and bear in mind that if those three replaced Neville, Distin and Osman, plus Gueye and Velios both came off the bench against Sunderland, you could feasibly have a current team with a nice balance.
Howard (31), Hibbert (30), Jagielka (29), Heitinga (28), Baines (27), Coleman (23), Fellaini (24), Rodwell (20), Drenthe (24), Cahill (32), Saha (33) (averagre age = 27).
When you add a bench of Mucha (29), Neville (34), Distin (34), Osman (30), Gueye (21), Barkley (18), Velios (19) it actually goes down. So our first choice 18 provides a perfect average age, we have youngsters coming through and I can't see Moyes spending money to bring anyone in who will take the average age up.
I think we are fine and in good hands! IMWT!
A lot has been made of the average age of the starting eleven against Sunderland, but if you look at the players who missed out through injury - Coleman, Rodwell, Fellaini and bear in mind that if those three replaced Neville, Distin and Osman, plus Gueye and Velios both came off the bench against Sunderland, you could feasibly have a current team with a nice balance.
Howard (31), Hibbert (30), Jagielka (29), Heitinga (28), Baines (27), Coleman (23), Fellaini (24), Rodwell (20), Drenthe (24), Cahill (32), Saha (33) (averagre age = 27).
When you add a bench of Mucha (29), Neville (34), Distin (34), Osman (30), Gueye (21), Barkley (18), Velios (19) it actually goes down. So our first choice 18 provides a perfect average age, we have youngsters coming through and I can't see Moyes spending money to bring anyone in who will take the average age up.
I think we are fine and in good hands! IMWT!
Kev Prytherch
3 Posted 27/12/2011 at 17:47:56
3 Posted 27/12/2011 at 17:47:56
I agree. A starting 11 consisting of Howard, Coleman, Jags, Heitinga, Baines, Gueye, Fellaini, Rodwell, Drenthe, Barkley and Vellios might not send shivers down other teams' spines at the moment but play them together and in 18 months they just might. In any case, I can only imagine Cahill, Osman and Saha being far more effective on the bench than what they have been starting this season.
Jimmy Sørheim
4 Posted 27/12/2011 at 18:54:20
4 Posted 27/12/2011 at 18:54:20
You pose a valid solution, and I think this could work well.
There is also another way, by bringing the youngsters on more regularly than now f.ex. in the 60th minute or a bit earlier then you do not place a too heavy burden on those youngsters.
There are players who I belive are ready now to go straight into the team, like Vellios and Gueye and Baxter, while players like Barkley, McAleny, Wallace and Hope are more fit to come on in the 60th minute or so.
I really like that forward way of thinking as I feel that will serve us good in also getting the best young talents in the transfer market, like Rory Donnely, who now looks to choose Swansea because they actually practice blooding the youngsters through the team, while Moyes only gives the impression of doing so.
I think it is a myth that Moyes is one of the best in giving youth a try, that is just my wiew, because I have seen other managers doing it in a real way. Moyes`s way is more a perceived one.
There is also another way, by bringing the youngsters on more regularly than now f.ex. in the 60th minute or a bit earlier then you do not place a too heavy burden on those youngsters.
There are players who I belive are ready now to go straight into the team, like Vellios and Gueye and Baxter, while players like Barkley, McAleny, Wallace and Hope are more fit to come on in the 60th minute or so.
I really like that forward way of thinking as I feel that will serve us good in also getting the best young talents in the transfer market, like Rory Donnely, who now looks to choose Swansea because they actually practice blooding the youngsters through the team, while Moyes only gives the impression of doing so.
I think it is a myth that Moyes is one of the best in giving youth a try, that is just my wiew, because I have seen other managers doing it in a real way. Moyes`s way is more a perceived one.
David Booth
5 Posted 27/12/2011 at 19:27:54
5 Posted 27/12/2011 at 19:27:54
Perfectly articulated Aidy.
David Moyes: are you reading this?
For God's sake wake up and realise that something better change.
Square, younger pegs in square holes and favourites on the bench, or the transfer list please.
Your current system is NOT working, so what have you got to lose?
Coleman at right back.
Jagielka and Heitinga at centre back.
Drenthe on the right.
Barkley IN the team.
New striker/s in the transfer window - or at least give Velios and Stracqualursi a run to get them established.
Neville, Cahill, Osman demoted to Harper/Richardson 'squad-only' status.
Bilyaletdinov played in his proper position, in a free-roaming role behind the main striker (why do you persist in playing him on the left wing?).
If the second half of the season is played out in the manner of the first, you are going to undo all the good/hard work you have done so far - and lose a lot of your supporters, like me.
David Moyes: are you reading this?
For God's sake wake up and realise that something better change.
Square, younger pegs in square holes and favourites on the bench, or the transfer list please.
Your current system is NOT working, so what have you got to lose?
Coleman at right back.
Jagielka and Heitinga at centre back.
Drenthe on the right.
Barkley IN the team.
New striker/s in the transfer window - or at least give Velios and Stracqualursi a run to get them established.
Neville, Cahill, Osman demoted to Harper/Richardson 'squad-only' status.
Bilyaletdinov played in his proper position, in a free-roaming role behind the main striker (why do you persist in playing him on the left wing?).
If the second half of the season is played out in the manner of the first, you are going to undo all the good/hard work you have done so far - and lose a lot of your supporters, like me.
Phil Brown
6 Posted 27/12/2011 at 20:24:22
6 Posted 27/12/2011 at 20:24:22
David #5 Because the free roaming role is Cahill's position- it's the root cause of all our problems.
David Booth
7 Posted 27/12/2011 at 20:31:37
7 Posted 27/12/2011 at 20:31:37
It didn't used to be Phil and I am against this current Cahill witch-hunt, as he's been our saviour so often - and most notably last season.
But things need a shake-up and playing him as a 'second striker' right now is not his best position.
Perhaps it's time to let the team develop without him and use him as an impact sub?
But the root cause of all our problems? I suggest not.
That is down to David Moyes's intransigence!
But things need a shake-up and playing him as a 'second striker' right now is not his best position.
Perhaps it's time to let the team develop without him and use him as an impact sub?
But the root cause of all our problems? I suggest not.
That is down to David Moyes's intransigence!
Chris Matheson
8 Posted 27/12/2011 at 20:42:57
8 Posted 27/12/2011 at 20:42:57
Phil and David ? if I may, I suggest that the root cause of all our problems runs deeper: an incompetent and vain chairman who puts no money into the club and whose financial strategy for the club is to sell off all the assets rather than develop any other income streams. We are now beyond the point where the only assets left to sell are playing ones, so Cahill gets played wherever there is a gap.
I find Moyes infuriating but I am clear that Kenwright is the root cause.
I find Moyes infuriating but I am clear that Kenwright is the root cause.
Mark Pierpoint
9 Posted 27/12/2011 at 18:27:17
9 Posted 27/12/2011 at 18:27:17
Agree with the premise of the article. We must mix it with experience that is worthy though. Bring back Pienaar for the left with Drenthe on the right. Blood Gueye in the Cahill mold maybe as supporting striker?
James Martin
10 Posted 27/12/2011 at 21:24:24
10 Posted 27/12/2011 at 21:24:24
My problem is that no one knows the pecking order of these youngsters. Years back everyone knew Rooney was about to emerge, there was a young lad called Vaughan coming behind him and even the name of Rodwell at a tener age was doing the rounds. They all came through and whether or not you agree with how they are/were handled their progression was smooth and expected.
Now I have no idea who is next in line to break into the Everton team. At the end of last season Adam Forshaw was getting a game whilst Ross Barkley sat in the reserves. I would have considered James Wallace and Jose Baxter ahead of Forshaw who now seems to have disappeared off the map yet those two are out on loan. Surely they are behind in the pecking order to Barkley now? If they are, are we hoping for late development from those two?
Onto strikers, who is next in line? Vellios looked to have nailed that position down but then is dropped and Mcaleny comes from nowhere, only for Moyes to then say, after a promising cameo from Mcaleny, that Stracqualursi, who hasn't played all season, will now be leading the attack, except he doesn't in the next game.
Does anyone on here have a good knowledge of the Everton youth system and are able to lay out a sort of order of succession in terms of defenders, midfielders and attackers for the youth players because I can't make out what order Moyes ranks them in.
What annoys me (and must irk the players even more) is when a player like Gueye, Barkley, Forshaw, Mcaleny, make the step up to the first team squad, perform well, and then find themselves back in the reserves for the rest of the season. You're either good enough or you're not, the academy coaches shouldn't be putting them forward to the main squad if they're not good enough to keep the place in the squad that they've earnt.
Now I have no idea who is next in line to break into the Everton team. At the end of last season Adam Forshaw was getting a game whilst Ross Barkley sat in the reserves. I would have considered James Wallace and Jose Baxter ahead of Forshaw who now seems to have disappeared off the map yet those two are out on loan. Surely they are behind in the pecking order to Barkley now? If they are, are we hoping for late development from those two?
Onto strikers, who is next in line? Vellios looked to have nailed that position down but then is dropped and Mcaleny comes from nowhere, only for Moyes to then say, after a promising cameo from Mcaleny, that Stracqualursi, who hasn't played all season, will now be leading the attack, except he doesn't in the next game.
Does anyone on here have a good knowledge of the Everton youth system and are able to lay out a sort of order of succession in terms of defenders, midfielders and attackers for the youth players because I can't make out what order Moyes ranks them in.
What annoys me (and must irk the players even more) is when a player like Gueye, Barkley, Forshaw, Mcaleny, make the step up to the first team squad, perform well, and then find themselves back in the reserves for the rest of the season. You're either good enough or you're not, the academy coaches shouldn't be putting them forward to the main squad if they're not good enough to keep the place in the squad that they've earnt.
David Booth
11 Posted 27/12/2011 at 21:52:22
11 Posted 27/12/2011 at 21:52:22
James: you could also add Mustafi, Duffy and Garbutt (all of whom look to have great potential to me), to that list?
They must be aiming to leave in droves right now, so things are going to get worse.
They must be aiming to leave in droves right now, so things are going to get worse.
Phil Brown
12 Posted 27/12/2011 at 23:10:57
12 Posted 27/12/2011 at 23:10:57
When I say that Cahill is the root cause of the problem, I mean that in terms of Moyes's inability to see that he is not performing and, by implication, make the necessary changes.
Barkley needs to be played for at least 30 mins every game in that role as he can see the killer pass in and around the box without having any defensive responsibilities.
Mustafi also looks very good but on the small side for a central defender ? perhaps defensive midfield?
Barkley needs to be played for at least 30 mins every game in that role as he can see the killer pass in and around the box without having any defensive responsibilities.
Mustafi also looks very good but on the small side for a central defender ? perhaps defensive midfield?
Michael Winstanley
13 Posted 28/12/2011 at 08:48:07
13 Posted 28/12/2011 at 08:48:07
Whilst I agree in principle with the main article you can see from the team put out against Sunderland Moyes ain't going to do that. We have injuries to Rodwell and Fellaini, in comes Neville and Heitinga. No sign of youth but plenty of experience.
I thought Gueye would start as I thought he looked okay in the games recently, however Moyes chose to bench him in favour of Osman. Which annoyed me as he'd been playing well in behind Saha. Moyes changed it around bringing in Cahill and not blooding Barklay.
Everytime Moyes will play with experience instead of youth.
I can understand why he does it, we're not full of confidence and the games are usally won and lost in midfield. I do think Moyes isn't playing Barklay too much because he knows if he plays him then a bid will come in and the board will accept it. Hopefully after January Barklay and a few of the other youngsters will get more game time.
We have a thin squad as it is and without any money the youth in our future. It is possible Moyes is trying to keep a hold of them for next season.
The experience of being around the first team is pretty daunting for these youngsters, I watched an in terview with Barklay on the OS, you could tell he was in awe of being around the first team initially but now I get the impression he knows he's better than them. He spoke about beating Osman and Cahill and being shocked he'd skinned them. The youngsters need to mature and feel they are worth their place in the first team, I get that impression with Gueye. As for Barklay, it's only a matter of time before he's a regular starter.
I thought Gueye would start as I thought he looked okay in the games recently, however Moyes chose to bench him in favour of Osman. Which annoyed me as he'd been playing well in behind Saha. Moyes changed it around bringing in Cahill and not blooding Barklay.
Everytime Moyes will play with experience instead of youth.
I can understand why he does it, we're not full of confidence and the games are usally won and lost in midfield. I do think Moyes isn't playing Barklay too much because he knows if he plays him then a bid will come in and the board will accept it. Hopefully after January Barklay and a few of the other youngsters will get more game time.
We have a thin squad as it is and without any money the youth in our future. It is possible Moyes is trying to keep a hold of them for next season.
The experience of being around the first team is pretty daunting for these youngsters, I watched an in terview with Barklay on the OS, you could tell he was in awe of being around the first team initially but now I get the impression he knows he's better than them. He spoke about beating Osman and Cahill and being shocked he'd skinned them. The youngsters need to mature and feel they are worth their place in the first team, I get that impression with Gueye. As for Barklay, it's only a matter of time before he's a regular starter.
Roman Sidey
14 Posted 28/12/2011 at 08:57:22
14 Posted 28/12/2011 at 08:57:22
James Martin, position has nothing to do with who is next in line for Moyes. I do like your post though. Very spot on.
Peter Warren
15 Posted 28/12/2011 at 13:34:32
15 Posted 28/12/2011 at 13:34:32
Please play Barkley.
Denis Richardson
16 Posted 28/12/2011 at 14:09:31
16 Posted 28/12/2011 at 14:09:31
With Coleman, Rodwell and Fellaini currently out, would be interested to see this team play (at home against not one of the top sides anyway);
Howard
Neville Jagielka Distin Baines
Drenthe Heitinga Osman Gueye
Barkley
Saha
Can swap Osman for Vellios and play Barkley in the middle if needed later, Ossie seems to be our lucky token at the minute so would play him.
Above may not work 100% but it would be better than Neville in the middle and Cahill starting.
Here's wishing..
Howard
Neville Jagielka Distin Baines
Drenthe Heitinga Osman Gueye
Barkley
Saha
Can swap Osman for Vellios and play Barkley in the middle if needed later, Ossie seems to be our lucky token at the minute so would play him.
Above may not work 100% but it would be better than Neville in the middle and Cahill starting.
Here's wishing..
Eric Myles
17 Posted 28/12/2011 at 14:49:51
17 Posted 28/12/2011 at 14:49:51
Aidy, Moyes has tried the youngsters already, what makes you think that Velios and Coleman are better than Moyes knows they are?
How many times do you want to see them fail?
How many times do you want to see them fail?
Dave Richman
18 Posted 28/12/2011 at 15:23:18
18 Posted 28/12/2011 at 15:23:18
Fair enough Eric, but how many times do we have to watch Saha & Cahill fail? When do you finally admit that an entire YEAR is more than a 'goal drought'? At the halfway stage of the season, and the sum total of goals from our regular first-choice 'strike partnership' is.... er.... two.
Surely an alternative partnership couldn't be worse? But we will never know, because they get one game each (Stracq & Vellios), and then it's back to the old guard for another crack.
Surely an alternative partnership couldn't be worse? But we will never know, because they get one game each (Stracq & Vellios), and then it's back to the old guard for another crack.
Eric Myles
19 Posted 28/12/2011 at 15:34:29
19 Posted 28/12/2011 at 15:34:29
David, lack of funds to get dcent replacements is not the manager's responsibility.
KENWRIGHT OUT
KENWRIGHT OUT
Ste Traverse
20 Posted 28/12/2011 at 15:53:30
20 Posted 28/12/2011 at 15:53:30
Even if we blood the kids and they turn out to be class acts, we all know they'll soon be shunted towards the Goodison Park exit door to keep the banks at bay and to keep this twat Kenwright in his beloved Chairmans seat.
Totally agree with Eric.
Kenwright Out.
Totally agree with Eric.
Kenwright Out.
Luke Dunn
21 Posted 28/12/2011 at 16:13:52
21 Posted 28/12/2011 at 16:13:52
7- Dave, it is not a witch hunt, he is finished... it is just people stating the obvious. He does not merit a starting place, what part of that is not clear? You can't live on your past. Same counts for Saha. Play the kids and give Bily a go in center midfield or behind the strikers, surely that can't be any worse than Neville/Heitinga partnership.
Cahill does not even break sweat anymore, he just huffs and puffs and constantly winges when decisions don't go his way. The toys have come out of the pram as he showed when throwing his shirt away when substituted against Norwich. True Everton legends don't do that. He is simply an overpaid has-been.
Cahill does not even break sweat anymore, he just huffs and puffs and constantly winges when decisions don't go his way. The toys have come out of the pram as he showed when throwing his shirt away when substituted against Norwich. True Everton legends don't do that. He is simply an overpaid has-been.
Alan Clarke
22 Posted 28/12/2011 at 21:14:40
22 Posted 28/12/2011 at 21:14:40
Moyes isn't building for the future so I don't think he's arsed about 'blooding' youth players. Moyes knows the financial situation at Everton is dire and any decent player will be sold from under his nose. So what's the point in trying to build a team?
Moyes is just trying to get through each week without his team being humiliated. He's trying to maintain his stock so he can get a job elsewhere when a 'bigger' club comes calling. We are absolutely rudderless with that twat Kenwright in charge so there's no point bringing on the youth.
Moyes is just trying to get through each week without his team being humiliated. He's trying to maintain his stock so he can get a job elsewhere when a 'bigger' club comes calling. We are absolutely rudderless with that twat Kenwright in charge so there's no point bringing on the youth.
Andy Crooks
23 Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:32:25
23 Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:32:25
Rory Donnelly will go to Swansea because of Brendan Rogers. It seems Liverpool's offer of a straight swop for Andy Carroll was turned down.
Lewis Morrison
24 Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:51:51
24 Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:51:51
Would love to see Barkley get the nod over Cahill against West Brom. Im not asking for a revolution, just one change. I dont even care if Neville and Heitinger continue in midfield presuming Fellainis still injured that is. Just put Cahill out of his misery and give the kid a go! If you cant give Barkley a run in the team against West Brom, Bolton and Tamworth then when can you???
Colin Taylor
25 Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:58:14
25 Posted 29/12/2011 at 16:58:14
You can all speculate but you know it won't change. Here is the team for WBA:
Howard
Hibbert Jagielka Distin Baines
Coleman Neville Heitinga Osman
Cahill
Saha.
With subs at 60 mins: Drenthe for Coleman; 80 mins Velios for Cahill; 85mins Stracq for Saha. We will lose or scrape a draw and Moyes will say, "We played well, WBA are a good side and I am delighted with a point."
Happy New Year.
Howard
Hibbert Jagielka Distin Baines
Coleman Neville Heitinga Osman
Cahill
Saha.
With subs at 60 mins: Drenthe for Coleman; 80 mins Velios for Cahill; 85mins Stracq for Saha. We will lose or scrape a draw and Moyes will say, "We played well, WBA are a good side and I am delighted with a point."
Happy New Year.
Sam Hoare
26 Posted 29/12/2011 at 20:20:49
26 Posted 29/12/2011 at 20:20:49
Maybe these youngsters aren't quite as good as we like to think they are? Moyes watches them every day in training. We are going on 15 minutes here and there!!
I'm all up for a change and some freshness but there's no point throwing them in just for the sake of it if there not up to it as that will just drain their confidence and be a setback in their development...eg vellios starting at Fulham.
I'm all up for a change and some freshness but there's no point throwing them in just for the sake of it if there not up to it as that will just drain their confidence and be a setback in their development...eg vellios starting at Fulham.
Wayne Smyth
27 Posted 29/12/2011 at 20:43:26
27 Posted 29/12/2011 at 20:43:26
Eric, I wouldn't say Coleman has failed, neither would I say I've seen enough of Vellios to say he's failed either. Both look better than the alternatives.
Lets take vellios for a minute. The lad has been given 1 start and a couple of cameos as far as I can recall. Whenever he's been played he hasn't been played WITH another more experienced striker, but has been expected to lead the line in a formation that the experienced, wily and very talented Saha cannot do.
How does Moyes expect any striker, never mind a 19 year old, to run the show on his own with no proper support?
All our youth players will look very limited and be sucked of all their confidence while the manager insists on playing his incredibly ineffective and negative tactics.
I very much agree with Aidy that we need to start blooding these young players to learn which are good enough and start giving them some REAL premiership experience, not 2 or 3 minutes to run around at the end of a game and maybe touch the ball if they're lucky.
Lets take vellios for a minute. The lad has been given 1 start and a couple of cameos as far as I can recall. Whenever he's been played he hasn't been played WITH another more experienced striker, but has been expected to lead the line in a formation that the experienced, wily and very talented Saha cannot do.
How does Moyes expect any striker, never mind a 19 year old, to run the show on his own with no proper support?
All our youth players will look very limited and be sucked of all their confidence while the manager insists on playing his incredibly ineffective and negative tactics.
I very much agree with Aidy that we need to start blooding these young players to learn which are good enough and start giving them some REAL premiership experience, not 2 or 3 minutes to run around at the end of a game and maybe touch the ball if they're lucky.
Sam Hoare
28 Posted 29/12/2011 at 20:56:02
28 Posted 29/12/2011 at 20:56:02
So Wayne, Moyes is expecting too much to ask a 19-year-old to lead the line on his own but he needs to give them more time than just sub appearances at the end.
Which is it? Either he starts or he doesn't.
I saw his start at Fulham and, though it's true he lacked support, he did not look ready at all to me. The ball bounced off and he missed a sitter. Maybe these kids aren't as good as we'd like to think...
Which is it? Either he starts or he doesn't.
I saw his start at Fulham and, though it's true he lacked support, he did not look ready at all to me. The ball bounced off and he missed a sitter. Maybe these kids aren't as good as we'd like to think...
Colin Wainwright
29 Posted 29/12/2011 at 21:00:17
29 Posted 29/12/2011 at 21:00:17
''The ball bounced off and he missed a sitter.''
Sounds like Saha in, near enough, every game this season.
Sounds like Saha in, near enough, every game this season.
Jimmy Sørheim
30 Posted 29/12/2011 at 21:15:35
30 Posted 29/12/2011 at 21:15:35
It is a bit short sighted to judge Vellios on one of only two starts.
I would submit that all young players that comes in to the first team "are not good enough" in that they are young and needs to learn. They are not finished products you know, like a car coming out of a factory, it is not that simple.
The only way to really find out if a player is good enough are to let him play the same amount of games as Cahill and Saha does and then you can judge when you have a foundation on how the player copes with it all. Saha gets to play no matter how shit he is, how nice it would be if Vellios was afforded the same!!!
Regarding Barkley I think he has been in dire need if match practice after being out for 18 months, but now he is more ready to face the hardship because he has been playing for the youth side as well as the first team. I think that Moyes think in the long run with regards to youngsters, in Barkley's case it may be smart, but Vellios has been fit and ready all last season, and up till now, but he still isn't playing.
I think it is more of a myth that Moyes is one of the best at blooding youngsters, at least the last two seasons.
The one thing youth gives you is raw working rate and willingness to do well, Saha has none of that so I wonder why he still insists in playing him. The same can almost be said of Cahill, but he has the work rate at least.
I would submit that all young players that comes in to the first team "are not good enough" in that they are young and needs to learn. They are not finished products you know, like a car coming out of a factory, it is not that simple.
The only way to really find out if a player is good enough are to let him play the same amount of games as Cahill and Saha does and then you can judge when you have a foundation on how the player copes with it all. Saha gets to play no matter how shit he is, how nice it would be if Vellios was afforded the same!!!
Regarding Barkley I think he has been in dire need if match practice after being out for 18 months, but now he is more ready to face the hardship because he has been playing for the youth side as well as the first team. I think that Moyes think in the long run with regards to youngsters, in Barkley's case it may be smart, but Vellios has been fit and ready all last season, and up till now, but he still isn't playing.
I think it is more of a myth that Moyes is one of the best at blooding youngsters, at least the last two seasons.
The one thing youth gives you is raw working rate and willingness to do well, Saha has none of that so I wonder why he still insists in playing him. The same can almost be said of Cahill, but he has the work rate at least.
Graeme Hough
31 Posted 29/12/2011 at 23:02:39
31 Posted 29/12/2011 at 23:02:39
Agree with post 25 from Colin - we can all name the team for the WBA game now. Probably Drenthe in place of Coleman if injured.
We can also guess that we will start OK then concede first and then struggle to chase the game as much as that is in Moyes's repertoire.
On the youth vs. experience main point the whole team lacks energy and pace, especially in midfield areas. I am not talking about people who can run quick (like Drenthe and Coleman but ones who have speed of thought as well as legs, rather than a heads down approach).
I am baffled by the Barkley situation. Play him behind the main striker - I remain a fan of Saha unlike most of you who leads the line far better than anyone else we have - in place of Cahill or driving forward from centre midfield with Osman playing further forward. Drenthe on the RIGHT where he is far more dangerous and Gueye out left.
It is only a couple of years ago we were the 'best of the rest' and ahead of Tottenham. Having watched them the other night I fear for what may happen at White Hart Lane soon. Not only speedy players, but players with speed of thought, always two or three options available, players comfortable on right, left or in centre. I dislike THFC with a vengeance but they are a joy to watch.
I can only dream of watching EFC play football like that......
We can also guess that we will start OK then concede first and then struggle to chase the game as much as that is in Moyes's repertoire.
On the youth vs. experience main point the whole team lacks energy and pace, especially in midfield areas. I am not talking about people who can run quick (like Drenthe and Coleman but ones who have speed of thought as well as legs, rather than a heads down approach).
I am baffled by the Barkley situation. Play him behind the main striker - I remain a fan of Saha unlike most of you who leads the line far better than anyone else we have - in place of Cahill or driving forward from centre midfield with Osman playing further forward. Drenthe on the RIGHT where he is far more dangerous and Gueye out left.
It is only a couple of years ago we were the 'best of the rest' and ahead of Tottenham. Having watched them the other night I fear for what may happen at White Hart Lane soon. Not only speedy players, but players with speed of thought, always two or three options available, players comfortable on right, left or in centre. I dislike THFC with a vengeance but they are a joy to watch.
I can only dream of watching EFC play football like that......
Anto Byrne
32 Posted 30/12/2011 at 10:20:01
32 Posted 30/12/2011 at 10:20:01
Harry always plays good footy: The Hammers, Pompey, Spurs.
Tiny Tim ? time has caught up with you... or is it the way EFC play with 6 defenders and crab footy?
Tiny Tim ? time has caught up with you... or is it the way EFC play with 6 defenders and crab footy?
Eric Myles
33 Posted 30/12/2011 at 12:45:27
33 Posted 30/12/2011 at 12:45:27
Wayne, Coleman was OK ay first, now he just runs into blind alleys and loses the ball, or passes it back to Hibbo.
Vellios has had 2 starts and been subbed at half time against Fulham, and shortly after (against Stoke was it?). He's not good enough.
As to looking to a 19-year-old to run the show on his own, didn't he do that with a 16-year-old namesake of yours?
Vellios has had 2 starts and been subbed at half time against Fulham, and shortly after (against Stoke was it?). He's not good enough.
As to looking to a 19-year-old to run the show on his own, didn't he do that with a 16-year-old namesake of yours?
Sam Morrison
34 Posted 31/12/2011 at 00:23:55
34 Posted 31/12/2011 at 00:23:55
If Cahill scores on Sunday he'll tell the corner flag all about the war.
Matthew Lovekin
35 Posted 31/12/2011 at 09:40:14
35 Posted 31/12/2011 at 09:40:14
Well written article and couldn't agree more.
When Moyes became manager, he said he wanted to bring the average age of the squad down, and in fairness needed to completely rebuild the squad, which he did.
However, Moyes' Golden Generation has now failed and we are in the same position as when Moyes first walked through the Goodison door. The only person that can't see that seems to be Moyes himself.
He needs to take a long hard look at himself and take his early advice.
When Moyes became manager, he said he wanted to bring the average age of the squad down, and in fairness needed to completely rebuild the squad, which he did.
However, Moyes' Golden Generation has now failed and we are in the same position as when Moyes first walked through the Goodison door. The only person that can't see that seems to be Moyes himself.
He needs to take a long hard look at himself and take his early advice.
Mark Riding
36 Posted 31/12/2011 at 15:24:50
36 Posted 31/12/2011 at 15:24:50
What if Barkley isn't as good as we all hope? He is apparantly worth decent money now, just like Rodwell was last season. Jack got games and didn't produce what we hoped, and as a consequence, the big summer bids never came in.
Is Moyes scared to play Ross in case we need to sell him for top money in the summer?
Is Moyes scared to play Ross in case we need to sell him for top money in the summer?
Trevor Lynes
37 Posted 01/01/2012 at 17:14:11
37 Posted 01/01/2012 at 17:14:11
We got a win after a dour and dismal show by both sides.
Ironically yet another defender Distin was named MotTM and he is at least 34 years of age. That man has been our best acquisition for years and Hibbo, Jags and Distin are STILL our best defenders. Our defence has carried the team for ages and should be paid double the money that our midfield and strikers get.
Saha gets lots of criticism but he has NO support at all... there is not a front man in the league who would do much better with the service provided. Every striker we have had has deteriorated over time and its the style of play that causes it. They get burnt out and I am sure that they do not enjoy playing with our present system.
Unfortunately DM has a project which has survival as the priority and if we finish in the top half it's a pleasant surprise. This board will not provide funds unless we are in relegation trouble!!!
Ironically yet another defender Distin was named MotTM and he is at least 34 years of age. That man has been our best acquisition for years and Hibbo, Jags and Distin are STILL our best defenders. Our defence has carried the team for ages and should be paid double the money that our midfield and strikers get.
Saha gets lots of criticism but he has NO support at all... there is not a front man in the league who would do much better with the service provided. Every striker we have had has deteriorated over time and its the style of play that causes it. They get burnt out and I am sure that they do not enjoy playing with our present system.
Unfortunately DM has a project which has survival as the priority and if we finish in the top half it's a pleasant surprise. This board will not provide funds unless we are in relegation trouble!!!
Nate Allen
38 Posted 03/01/2012 at 15:26:34
38 Posted 03/01/2012 at 15:26:34
Dropping Hibbo for Coleman at RB is a HUGE risk. It will undoubtedly weaken the defense. Of course the flip side is that our attack might be strong enough then to nullify the weakened defense. I can't see can't see Coleman in attack as strong or stronger than Hibbo in defense. It is almost entirely one or the other.
Sam Platt
39 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:11:56
39 Posted 07/01/2012 at 18:11:56
I have always felt that although it hurts i will not get annoyed should Everton lose a match, I understand that although most supporters have high expectations of the team, they cannot win every single match, or be the better side in every match. However what irritates me is when they play poorly and then get another chance next match, with either the exact same side or with very minor changes eg. Billy in for Cahill. I am growing every tired of the same players who continue to under perform one week being started the next. Why give Gueye, Barkley or McAleny 60 minutes, if there not playing well bring them off, but those 60 minutes provide valuable experience to these youngsters.
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1 Posted 27/12/2011 at 17:38:13