Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Appalling
By Nick Armitage :: 05/01/2012
70 Comments (»Last)
That performance was simply appalling. Luckily for me, I watched that game from afar, but even then, it was far from entertaining. I sympathise with the vast majority of the 29,561 hardened souls, who braved the atrocious conditions to watch a performance that was far more atrocious than anything the weather could have thrown at them. And the reason I don?t sympathise with all of those 29,561, is because some of those in the crowd have sat by, or been actively involved in, the wilful dismantling of a once great sporting institution.
On the pitch this team resembles their counterparts in the Directors? Box. It is dour, stale and negative. It lacks drive, strategy and imagination.
Alongside Kenwright and his cronies, I wish Phil Neville and Louis Saha a speedy departure from Everton. With the fortunes those two have amassed, surely there are more enjoyable ways to enjoy the fruits of their labour than to continually embarrass themselves in front of the nation?s cameras. The pair of them offer zilch to a team currently running on empty.
In spite of his clear absence of ability, I had a grudging modicum of respect for Phil Neville for what he had achieved in the game. This same respect is now being eroded by his continued presence in a league that he simply cannot cope in. Observe him warm up, watch him with a ball at his feet and then try to convince yourself he is a modern footballer. You can?t because he isn?t and he never was.
I wish I had the audacity to con someone into paying me tens of thousands of pounds a week to clap hands, point, ball-watch and never hit a forward pass to feet. I used to laugh at him; now it breaks my heart watching him represent and captain my football club. Never has there been such an antithesis of the School of Science and what an Everton captain should represent.
This season, and on more occasions than one, I have witnessed a kid accomplish more in a 10-minute substitute appearance than Louis Saha has all season. For this, Saha receives a remuneration package that would afford most of us the option to clear our mortgage in a matter of weeks, not the decades we must toil for. To ?earn? this all Saha does is half heartedly ponce around a football pitch and occasionally feign mild disappointment after his one shot per game gets scuffed five yards wide.
Why is it that phoneys like Neville and Saha continue to turn up, go through the motions, and bleed an almost bankrupt club of millions? Players like Arteta and Yakubu, whilst imperfect themselves, were sacrificed to trim the wage bill.
People who use the lazy excuse of tight finances for performances like that need to boil their heads. There are big name players at Everton who are on salaries that players on a rung below them in football?s mad hierarchy, can only dream of. Many Arsenal first teamers are on less than our very own top earners. Yet money does not appear to be a barrier to them when they pass the ball, move into space, track runners, retain possession from a throw in or any other of the absolute basics you need to demonstrate to get picked for a school team.
And if Everton?s negligently crippled and moribund finances are the root cause of this shameful level of performance, can someone explain why Mikel Arteta halved his salary, then suddenly remembered all the simple things again? I do not need to elaborate on whose responsibility it is for instilling the fundamentals into a team with a wage bill approaching £60M a year.
As things stand I am not giving any more money to the Kenwright and Moyes axis while they continue to crush Everton. The finger of blame of why the club is teetering on the edge of a financial abyss lies squarely with the regime that has run the club, into the ground, for the last decade.
Life is short, you only earn your wages once but when you hand over your hard earned £35 in return for a match day ticket, I can pretty much guarantee that you hurt more after a defeat than they do. It is quite simple for me, I will not return to Goodison and be a party to them whilst they continue to strip the assets, soul and ethos of the once great Everton Football Club.
People say we could do a lot worse than Kenwright and Moyes and I agree we could do a lot worse. But then again, we can also do a hell of a lot better.
Reader Comments (70)
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Tommy Coleman
2 Posted 05/01/2012 at 07:51:50
2 Posted 05/01/2012 at 07:51:50
Never a better word said. Exactly how I feel.
James Morgan
3 Posted 05/01/2012 at 07:56:44
3 Posted 05/01/2012 at 07:56:44
Spot on. I've never felt more disillusioned with EFC than I do right now. We can all blame the board, and rightly so to a degree, but the buck regarding performances such as this stop with the manager.
Players like Neville, Saha, Hibbert and Heitinga just aren't good enough. I'd rather ship them out, save the wages and promote a bunch of hungry youngsters.
How on earth can we have any craft or guile in the middle when playing two defenders?
I'd rather see Osman, Bily, McFadden or Barkley in the centre then at least we'd have some creativity.
Kenwright and his lap dog can't go quick enough for me.
Players like Neville, Saha, Hibbert and Heitinga just aren't good enough. I'd rather ship them out, save the wages and promote a bunch of hungry youngsters.
How on earth can we have any craft or guile in the middle when playing two defenders?
I'd rather see Osman, Bily, McFadden or Barkley in the centre then at least we'd have some creativity.
Kenwright and his lap dog can't go quick enough for me.
Eric Myles
4 Posted 05/01/2012 at 08:07:00
4 Posted 05/01/2012 at 08:07:00
Phil, 1 signing won't wipe out Kenwright's past sins, it's gone way beyond that now.
NSNO - Need Some New Owners.
Kenwright OUT.
NSNO - Need Some New Owners.
Kenwright OUT.
Neil Pickering
5 Posted 05/01/2012 at 08:11:22
5 Posted 05/01/2012 at 08:11:22
I don't think it just Moyes that needs to go. In my view, we need a major cull of the playing staff also. Aside from Baines and Distin, Felli, Heitinga, and Barkley, I would get shut of the lot of them. So I say sell Jags, Rodwell, Bily, Saha (if anyone would have him) and try and start a fresh. I simply won't except that there aren't lads out there under our 1st team who couldn't do a better job.
I do feel sorry for some of the players such as Baines, Fellaini, Rodwell, Jags, Heitinga etc coz Moyes is killing their careers, and even with my most biased hat on, if I was them I would get out now before it's too late.
We are a sinking ship and we'd better batten down the hatches for probably what will be a watershed season at our club.
I do feel sorry for some of the players such as Baines, Fellaini, Rodwell, Jags, Heitinga etc coz Moyes is killing their careers, and even with my most biased hat on, if I was them I would get out now before it's too late.
We are a sinking ship and we'd better batten down the hatches for probably what will be a watershed season at our club.
Rob Dolby
6 Posted 05/01/2012 at 08:25:59
6 Posted 05/01/2012 at 08:25:59
Last night was appalling but who out of the 29,000 expected much better? 2 poor teams in poor conditions, the only difference was that Bolton realised that we were there for the taking and dominated us in the 2nd half.
Howard, Distin and Donovan performed as expected; the rest of them may as well not have been on the pitch. 3 injuries forced Moyes into the subs but why no Barkley, Vellios or McAleny on the bench? He hasn't any faith in Bily so why have him on the bench? I just hope that he plays the younger players on Saturday.
Howard, Distin and Donovan performed as expected; the rest of them may as well not have been on the pitch. 3 injuries forced Moyes into the subs but why no Barkley, Vellios or McAleny on the bench? He hasn't any faith in Bily so why have him on the bench? I just hope that he plays the younger players on Saturday.
Terry McLavey
7 Posted 05/01/2012 at 09:34:39
7 Posted 05/01/2012 at 09:34:39
Great article Nick! As for Yakubu and Arteta who are these revitalised players?!There is a saying on the lines of "There are no such thing as bad soldiers just bad commanders!" At one point (I can't remember who) one of our players made an attack on Boltons box, lost the ball and proceeded to stroll back to our area watching the player who had taken the ball off him! I reckoned in about 3 or 4 apathetic steps he had earned about 50 times the money I have to graft for an hour to earn! I wonder how much money the board are draining every week from our beloved club ? Can you see any of them sitting and writing passionate post about their club,I very much doubt they even support us! Time to dig out the placards boys !!
Dick Fearon
8 Posted 05/01/2012 at 08:28:00
8 Posted 05/01/2012 at 08:28:00
Moyes must accept we have gone as far as we can under his tenure. In his own words we do not play entertaining football. That is probably as close as he would admit to it being a load of negative rubbish.
He has relentlessly stuck to his pinch a point tactics despite it being the reason 'We do not play entertaining football'.
He finds excuse after excuse to cover his own inadequacies and those of his hand picked assistants.
To find an example of just one of their failures look no further than Hibbert. Ten years ago Tony was in Moyes original squad in all that time he has not scored a single goal nor has he come close to doing so. His crossing of the ball is as bad as it ever was and Moyes hand picked crew have been able to do anything about it.
I could make a list of basic technical faults that manifest themselves in game after game for every one of our players.
Those faults are so blatantly obvious and long standing I come to the conclusion that our coaching panel is oblivious of them or totally inadequate in correcting them.
A glaring example is Arteta's dead ball kick that saw him invariably hit the first defender.
I have seen all his games for Arsenal and all his dead ball kicks are good.
Moyes is out of his depth and hasn't a clue when it comes to attacking football. Our performance in that regard can generally be summed up as bloody atrocious.
I have said previously that Cahill's goals covered up for very poor tactics and BKs lack of funds.. Now those goals have dried up Davy and Bill are exposed.
I do not know the answer to problems in the board room but Davy should sling his hook as soon as possible.
He has relentlessly stuck to his pinch a point tactics despite it being the reason 'We do not play entertaining football'.
He finds excuse after excuse to cover his own inadequacies and those of his hand picked assistants.
To find an example of just one of their failures look no further than Hibbert. Ten years ago Tony was in Moyes original squad in all that time he has not scored a single goal nor has he come close to doing so. His crossing of the ball is as bad as it ever was and Moyes hand picked crew have been able to do anything about it.
I could make a list of basic technical faults that manifest themselves in game after game for every one of our players.
Those faults are so blatantly obvious and long standing I come to the conclusion that our coaching panel is oblivious of them or totally inadequate in correcting them.
A glaring example is Arteta's dead ball kick that saw him invariably hit the first defender.
I have seen all his games for Arsenal and all his dead ball kicks are good.
Moyes is out of his depth and hasn't a clue when it comes to attacking football. Our performance in that regard can generally be summed up as bloody atrocious.
I have said previously that Cahill's goals covered up for very poor tactics and BKs lack of funds.. Now those goals have dried up Davy and Bill are exposed.
I do not know the answer to problems in the board room but Davy should sling his hook as soon as possible.
Derek Thomas
9 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:05:03
9 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:05:03
Hear Hear; as the attendance, performance and results drop what price the 0.02% increasing.
Can ANYBODY defend this shite or challenge a word of the above.
The words Laughing stock and embarrassment are looming large.
Over to you all the usual suspects.
Can ANYBODY defend this shite or challenge a word of the above.
The words Laughing stock and embarrassment are looming large.
Over to you all the usual suspects.
Mike Rourke
10 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:27:55
10 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:27:55
Can't really find a way to argue with the above.
My enthusiasm for defending Moyes is at rock bottom - how do you justify starting Neville and Heitinga in midfield when Ross Barkley is fit?
The continued selection of Saha? Don't get me started.
As much as I really do rate DM as an Everton great I just can't get past the idea that a parting of ways at this point would do him and the club the world of good.
My enthusiasm for defending Moyes is at rock bottom - how do you justify starting Neville and Heitinga in midfield when Ross Barkley is fit?
The continued selection of Saha? Don't get me started.
As much as I really do rate DM as an Everton great I just can't get past the idea that a parting of ways at this point would do him and the club the world of good.
Tony J Williams
11 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:30:20
11 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:30:20
I agree with you about the over the hillplayers but "And the reason I don?t sympathise with all of those 29,561, is because some of those in the crowd have sat by, or been actively involved in, the wilful dismantling of a once great sporting institution" - what a ridiculous statement, unless they are part of the board, what have they done differently to you to facilitate the demise of our club?
This is my biggest bugbear on here, just because some people are not as angry as you, they are part of the problem. Absolutely ridiculous statement.
This is my biggest bugbear on here, just because some people are not as angry as you, they are part of the problem. Absolutely ridiculous statement.
Sam Morrison
12 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:50:49
12 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:50:49
Nick, in agreement with most of what you say. My feeling on Moyes is he is jaded and either needs to shake himself out of it and get the fire back, or leave.
Not sure why you're starting in on Hibbert, Dick, other than habit perhaps? Both Bolton goals came from our left flank.
Not sure why you're starting in on Hibbert, Dick, other than habit perhaps? Both Bolton goals came from our left flank.
Ray Robinson
13 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:54:49
13 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:54:49
Nick, I agree with Tony J's comments. I've been following the Blues for 50 years and was there last night, so I'm part of the problem am I?
Tell you what, I'll stop going then. How will that actually help?
Tell you what, I'll stop going then. How will that actually help?
Nick Armitage
14 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:52:44
14 Posted 05/01/2012 at 10:52:44
My point is that some of the crowd are on the board or in the sycophantic arse kissing Senior Management Team at Everton. They therefore constitute some of the 29,561. These are the imbeciles that I have no sympathy with.
I have nothing but sympathy with Everton fans, even the apathetic match going ones who make up the silent majority. These people are not the problem, they are part of a possible solution - it is the arseholes running my football that are the problem.
I have nothing but sympathy with Everton fans, even the apathetic match going ones who make up the silent majority. These people are not the problem, they are part of a possible solution - it is the arseholes running my football that are the problem.
Tony J Williams
15 Posted 05/01/2012 at 11:13:18
15 Posted 05/01/2012 at 11:13:18
Fair enough Nick, I agree the board member are to blame and are the biggest part of the problem.
Apologies, as there are plenty on here that go that step further and blame the fans for not shouting enough to remove the board.
Apologies, as there are plenty on here that go that step further and blame the fans for not shouting enough to remove the board.
Suresh Gill
16 Posted 05/01/2012 at 11:23:40
16 Posted 05/01/2012 at 11:23:40
We played ok for a little while in the 1st half then we were "Gone with the Wind".
Tom Hughes
17 Posted 05/01/2012 at 11:00:11
17 Posted 05/01/2012 at 11:00:11
Unfortunately I think Nick is probably right..... we are part of the problem if we continue to fund the club when the board have invested and delivered nothing. We are to some degree preserving the status quo.... a status quo that is completely unsustainable, and has been for several years already. The rot has been allowed to set in.
We now have a tiny, ageing and poorer quality squad, that will need massive investment in the next 1-3 yrs for us just to stand still. The good work of the manager has been completely undone for want of a proper strategy to move the club forward.
Many people have been highlighting these issues for years. The club was questioned repeatedly about these issues at AGMs and the Public Inquiry and has never provided adequate answers. The incessant lies, propaganda and our loyal support has helped preserve them when the problems have been multiple and glaring. The fire sale at the beginning of this season is the culmination of years of negligence, ineptitude and missed opportunity, and points to only one obvious conclusion. We simply cannot carry on the way we are.
Thousands are already staying away. Judging by the responses on these threads, (and the many people I spoke to last night), how many more will vote with their feet next season? I don't believe there is any prospect for real improvement with the current owners.
Can anyone seriously make a valid case in their defence, or provide any reason to persist with them at the helm of our rudderless ship? Yet some still attempted to criticise the Blue Union? Not many "happy clappers" around now!
We now have a tiny, ageing and poorer quality squad, that will need massive investment in the next 1-3 yrs for us just to stand still. The good work of the manager has been completely undone for want of a proper strategy to move the club forward.
Many people have been highlighting these issues for years. The club was questioned repeatedly about these issues at AGMs and the Public Inquiry and has never provided adequate answers. The incessant lies, propaganda and our loyal support has helped preserve them when the problems have been multiple and glaring. The fire sale at the beginning of this season is the culmination of years of negligence, ineptitude and missed opportunity, and points to only one obvious conclusion. We simply cannot carry on the way we are.
Thousands are already staying away. Judging by the responses on these threads, (and the many people I spoke to last night), how many more will vote with their feet next season? I don't believe there is any prospect for real improvement with the current owners.
Can anyone seriously make a valid case in their defence, or provide any reason to persist with them at the helm of our rudderless ship? Yet some still attempted to criticise the Blue Union? Not many "happy clappers" around now!
Mark Murphy
18 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:01:29
18 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:01:29
My wife loves Bill Kenwright.
He has cured her husband of an obsession dating some 45 years.
I'm resigned where i used to be absolutely gutted.
And Moyes is not innocent in al of this.
Phil Neville In Midfield - why??
He has cured her husband of an obsession dating some 45 years.
I'm resigned where i used to be absolutely gutted.
And Moyes is not innocent in al of this.
Phil Neville In Midfield - why??
Daniel A Johnson
19 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:21:13
19 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:21:13
Where is the voice of the fans?
Why were they not barracking Moyes Kenwright and the players after being beat so easily by bottom of the table Bolton.
As fans on matchday its like were scared of voicing discontent.
Were all far too fucking polite
Why were they not barracking Moyes Kenwright and the players after being beat so easily by bottom of the table Bolton.
As fans on matchday its like were scared of voicing discontent.
Were all far too fucking polite
Phil Bellis
20 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:31:15
20 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:31:15
Daniel - if only we had cushions, we'd show the bastards
Dick Fearon
21 Posted 05/01/2012 at 11:52:52
21 Posted 05/01/2012 at 11:52:52
Sam # 10, I mentioned Hibbert as an example of a player who is piss poor at crossing a ball. I wanted to point out that after 10 years Moyes nor his assistants have made any noticeable improvement in that particular weakness.
I could have used Coleman's head down runs into blind alleys or Saha's lack of speed and guts or Jags hoofing or any one of half dozen others.
There are so many individual and group failings it would take several pages to list them all.
If I was to name the worst of them it would have to be our off the ball movement. A classic example of that was when Neville was roundly booed for passing back to Howard. What else was he supposed to do when not a single team mate presented for a pass?
That kind of poor and slow off-the-ball movement would earn a tongue lashing and extra training from most managers. I tremble at what sir Alex would do.
After saying all that, I do not expect that facet of our game to improve by one iota.
I honestly do not think Moyes has any answers.
I could have used Coleman's head down runs into blind alleys or Saha's lack of speed and guts or Jags hoofing or any one of half dozen others.
There are so many individual and group failings it would take several pages to list them all.
If I was to name the worst of them it would have to be our off the ball movement. A classic example of that was when Neville was roundly booed for passing back to Howard. What else was he supposed to do when not a single team mate presented for a pass?
That kind of poor and slow off-the-ball movement would earn a tongue lashing and extra training from most managers. I tremble at what sir Alex would do.
After saying all that, I do not expect that facet of our game to improve by one iota.
I honestly do not think Moyes has any answers.
Kevin Hudson
22 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:29:30
22 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:29:30
Nick, Are you bi-polar?
3 days ago you described Moyes as:
"An unbelievable manager he is. Like a captain steering a sinking ship into battle and surviving, regardless of armour or weaponry, he?s ready for the next."
Today you discuss how he is complicit (with Kenwright) in:
"crushing Everton...with a regime that has run the club into the ground, for the last decade...stripping the soul and ethos of the once great Everton Football Club."
Question: Had we won last night, would you have still posited this lament, or is one gash performance enough to completely turn your ENTIRE appraisal on it's head?
3 days ago you described Moyes as:
"An unbelievable manager he is. Like a captain steering a sinking ship into battle and surviving, regardless of armour or weaponry, he?s ready for the next."
Today you discuss how he is complicit (with Kenwright) in:
"crushing Everton...with a regime that has run the club into the ground, for the last decade...stripping the soul and ethos of the once great Everton Football Club."
Question: Had we won last night, would you have still posited this lament, or is one gash performance enough to completely turn your ENTIRE appraisal on it's head?
Noel Lynam
23 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:53:10
23 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:53:10
Kevin @ 20,
That was a different Nick.
That was a different Nick.
Robbie Muldoon
24 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:46:02
24 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:46:02
"One gash-performance?" hahaha we were better last night than against Stoke!
Robert Elliott
25 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:32:20
25 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:32:20
For the first time, I honestly feel like my love affair with football in general and Everton in paricular is coming to an end. The defeats don't hurt as much as they used to, the victories don't bring as much joy and the optimism I have always had, that we would one day reassume our rightful place at the head of English football has long since gone.
To think it was only two and a half years ago we were in an FA Cup final and seemingly on the verge of something big again having finished fifth in the PL for the second year in succession.
The mis-management that has followed since is as disappointing as anything I've seen in 25 years of being an Everton fan.
I personally lay most of the blame at the door of Kenwright and the board. They have fundamentally failed in the three most important tasks they had.
1- To attract new investment and/or new ownership.
2- To solve the stadium issue by either relocating the club or finding a way to redevelop GP.
3- To support the manager in the transfer market with meaningful funds to improve the team.
Having proven incompetent in these three areas, we are now expected to believe that Blue Bill is the right man to sell the club to the right person to move us forward. "You'll never find a better salesman for Everton football club than me. You won't half miss me when I'm gone" The arrogance of the man is unbelievable.
Nor is Moyes in my view blameless. For the last three years he's worn the expression of a beaten man at the start of every season, which is followed by his usual downbeat public statements, such as "our first priority is to get to 40 points". I still haven't forgiven him for saying that we weren't ready to win Premier League football matches yet after our opening day defeat by Blackburn in August 2008 either.
There are no easy ways out of the current mess we're in. I don't think any of us really expect new ownership or significant new investment in the short to medium term which means we are likely to have to sell one player a year simply to survive. History would suggest that is a strategy that won't keep us in the top flight for long.
We need urgent action yet the media keep telling us we should be thankful for what we've got. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. Anyone know the latin for pass me the noose?
To think it was only two and a half years ago we were in an FA Cup final and seemingly on the verge of something big again having finished fifth in the PL for the second year in succession.
The mis-management that has followed since is as disappointing as anything I've seen in 25 years of being an Everton fan.
I personally lay most of the blame at the door of Kenwright and the board. They have fundamentally failed in the three most important tasks they had.
1- To attract new investment and/or new ownership.
2- To solve the stadium issue by either relocating the club or finding a way to redevelop GP.
3- To support the manager in the transfer market with meaningful funds to improve the team.
Having proven incompetent in these three areas, we are now expected to believe that Blue Bill is the right man to sell the club to the right person to move us forward. "You'll never find a better salesman for Everton football club than me. You won't half miss me when I'm gone" The arrogance of the man is unbelievable.
Nor is Moyes in my view blameless. For the last three years he's worn the expression of a beaten man at the start of every season, which is followed by his usual downbeat public statements, such as "our first priority is to get to 40 points". I still haven't forgiven him for saying that we weren't ready to win Premier League football matches yet after our opening day defeat by Blackburn in August 2008 either.
There are no easy ways out of the current mess we're in. I don't think any of us really expect new ownership or significant new investment in the short to medium term which means we are likely to have to sell one player a year simply to survive. History would suggest that is a strategy that won't keep us in the top flight for long.
We need urgent action yet the media keep telling us we should be thankful for what we've got. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. Anyone know the latin for pass me the noose?
Mick Gallagher
26 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:56:36
26 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:56:36
Moyes comes out and says I want to entertain the fans. Then plays 6 fucking defenders against the mighty Bolton bottom of the league at home. Roll on Tamworth hopefully he will only play with 5.
Whats happened to Vellios, Drenthe, Barkley or are they still suffering with that stomach bug.
Whats happened to Vellios, Drenthe, Barkley or are they still suffering with that stomach bug.
Andrew Clare
27 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:55:19
27 Posted 05/01/2012 at 12:55:19
Mark at 16# I am with you.
I used to be gutted when we lost now I am not surprised at all.
I can't believe how we have been failed by all of these people for so many years.
We have wound up as a mediocre mid-table load of crap.
Without a new owner the future is going to be very bleak.
I used to be gutted when we lost now I am not surprised at all.
I can't believe how we have been failed by all of these people for so many years.
We have wound up as a mediocre mid-table load of crap.
Without a new owner the future is going to be very bleak.
Tony J Williams
28 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:00:49
28 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:00:49
"Moyes comes out and says I want to entertain the fans"
I thought he tried to do that by going 4-4-2 and bringing in Donovan straight away to add something to the right hand side, unfortunately Osman was injured and then the sub needed to be subbed along with Jags. This left absolutely no option to change the game when we went from leading 1-0 to being 2-1 down because of our defenders not doing their jobs properly, ie actually defending a shot or a man.
Apart from the inclusion of possibly Barkley, I am not sure of what team would have been more attacking than the one we started with.
Drenthe was not fit, neither was Rodwell. Anichebe is not match fit (and also gash) McFadden is....well McFadden. Gueye isn't the answer.
4-4-2 with attacking skillfull wingers should have worked, but as soon as we saw the blustery weather, weather and a dodgy keeper, we should have been shooting on sight and keeping the ball on the ground.
Once again, the players are getting away with it from most of the posters and just blamong Moyes for the "wrong 4-4-2" (love it)
I thought he tried to do that by going 4-4-2 and bringing in Donovan straight away to add something to the right hand side, unfortunately Osman was injured and then the sub needed to be subbed along with Jags. This left absolutely no option to change the game when we went from leading 1-0 to being 2-1 down because of our defenders not doing their jobs properly, ie actually defending a shot or a man.
Apart from the inclusion of possibly Barkley, I am not sure of what team would have been more attacking than the one we started with.
Drenthe was not fit, neither was Rodwell. Anichebe is not match fit (and also gash) McFadden is....well McFadden. Gueye isn't the answer.
4-4-2 with attacking skillfull wingers should have worked, but as soon as we saw the blustery weather, weather and a dodgy keeper, we should have been shooting on sight and keeping the ball on the ground.
Once again, the players are getting away with it from most of the posters and just blamong Moyes for the "wrong 4-4-2" (love it)
Kevin Hudson
29 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:06:31
29 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:06:31
Robbie (22)
Fair tackle, we have produced several gash performances...but at least you're consistent..!
Fair tackle, we have produced several gash performances...but at least you're consistent..!
Kevin Hudson
30 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:11:39
30 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:11:39
I agree with Tony,
Bizarrely, we looked terrified of Bolton (post-Howard's goal) and that utterly baffled me. Bolton kept it on the deck, and I do NOT think any manager's instructions would have been for them to keep launching it.
Question is, why where they so panicky leading 1-0..?
Bizarrely, we looked terrified of Bolton (post-Howard's goal) and that utterly baffled me. Bolton kept it on the deck, and I do NOT think any manager's instructions would have been for them to keep launching it.
Question is, why where they so panicky leading 1-0..?
Kevin Hudson
31 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:19:01
31 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:19:01
Apologies, Nick Armitage - Noel (21) is right, it was Nick Entwistle...
(Time to give my wind-blown head a wobble).
(Time to give my wind-blown head a wobble).
Andrew Laird
32 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:10:19
32 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:10:19
Tony J, I would like to think you know a bit about football but: "4-4-2 with attacking skillfull wingers should have worked" Osman is an attacking skillful winger?? It certainly will not work with 2 defenders in the middle of midfield.
Your argument that the players are "getting away with it" is flawed. Moyes picks them out of position and out of form yet according to you they are not following the manager's instructions...... The same manager who could leave these players out of the squad.
Your argument that the players are "getting away with it" is flawed. Moyes picks them out of position and out of form yet according to you they are not following the manager's instructions...... The same manager who could leave these players out of the squad.
Mick Gallagher
33 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:30:03
33 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:30:03
Gueye might not be the answer but start him on the left. Osman or Barkley in the middle along side Neville or Heitinga I can live with. Till Rodwell and Felianai are fit again. 6 fucking defenders starting sorry it didnt work at West Brom and it was even fucking worse last night.
Sam Hoare
34 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:36:32
34 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:36:32
Players deserve more grief than Moyes. He played a solid 442 with almost every player playing in a position that they are fairly accustomed to.
Its not as though he's leaving world beaters on the bench! Mcfadden and Anichebe are coming back from injury. Billy has been shocking this season. Rodwell was half fit evidently and Cahill doesn't deserve a start. The only possible real grief is Barkley, who people seem to forget is a relatively untried 18yr old who's yet to start a game in CM for the first team.
Its not as though he's leaving world beaters on the bench! Mcfadden and Anichebe are coming back from injury. Billy has been shocking this season. Rodwell was half fit evidently and Cahill doesn't deserve a start. The only possible real grief is Barkley, who people seem to forget is a relatively untried 18yr old who's yet to start a game in CM for the first team.
Tony J Williams
35 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:39:37
35 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:39:37
Andrew, do you think that Moyes says to Saha, "When you are clear through on goal, forget how to use your feet and scuff the ball wide"?
or
"Let the man you are marking just trot passed you and don't pick him up"?
or
"Let the man have a shot on goal, don't get your foot in the way"?
or
"Don't control the ball, let it bounce off you and go for a throw"
3 of them alone is Saha, our first choice striker. He's our first choice because we have sold the other to get the banks off our back or because they didn't want to play for us.
Moyes has a lot to answer for but so do the players. These overpaid primadonnas can;t even do the basics of football. Pass the ball to a man and move into space. Most of these would have been sent packing if we could afford replacements.
"Osman is an attacking skillful winger?? " - What would you call him then? A defensive midfielder? He is skillfuil and he is playing on the wing, so yes he is an attacking, skillfull winger.
or
"Let the man you are marking just trot passed you and don't pick him up"?
or
"Let the man have a shot on goal, don't get your foot in the way"?
or
"Don't control the ball, let it bounce off you and go for a throw"
3 of them alone is Saha, our first choice striker. He's our first choice because we have sold the other to get the banks off our back or because they didn't want to play for us.
Moyes has a lot to answer for but so do the players. These overpaid primadonnas can;t even do the basics of football. Pass the ball to a man and move into space. Most of these would have been sent packing if we could afford replacements.
"Osman is an attacking skillful winger?? " - What would you call him then? A defensive midfielder? He is skillfuil and he is playing on the wing, so yes he is an attacking, skillfull winger.
Andrew Laird
36 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:42:41
36 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:42:41
Sam, in your opinion, do you think that it is the correct option to pick a CB and a 35 year old who would struggle to get in to any other team in the Premier league as your 2 central midfielders? the hub of the team, where the tempo is set for play.
No world beaters on the bench, I agree.... no young hungry talents waiting for their chance either except Gueye who should of started for once. Maybe it might do these underperformers a world of good to have a few weeks rest in the stands watching the youth team running their hearts out for the shirt and their chance?
Bily has been shocking this season, no more shocking than Saha, Cahill or Neville who are continually picked in front of him for their, ahem, talents. At least he can shoot from outside the box but that's not what we do is it...
No world beaters on the bench, I agree.... no young hungry talents waiting for their chance either except Gueye who should of started for once. Maybe it might do these underperformers a world of good to have a few weeks rest in the stands watching the youth team running their hearts out for the shirt and their chance?
Bily has been shocking this season, no more shocking than Saha, Cahill or Neville who are continually picked in front of him for their, ahem, talents. At least he can shoot from outside the box but that's not what we do is it...
Chris Rudd
37 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:51:51
37 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:51:51
"...Barkley, who people seem to forget is a relatively untried 18yr old who's yet to start a game in CM for the first team."
And there's the rub, Sam. When will he start a game in CM for the first team if not at home, against the bottom team in the league, when Fellaini and Rodwell are both unfit to start?
And there's the rub, Sam. When will he start a game in CM for the first team if not at home, against the bottom team in the league, when Fellaini and Rodwell are both unfit to start?
Mick Gallagher
38 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:54:53
38 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:54:53
Well said Chris what I was getting at in a earlier post
Andrew Laird
39 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:52:08
39 Posted 05/01/2012 at 13:52:08
Tony,
Of course Moyes doesn't say those things but he picks him every week regardless.
"winger" for me means someone who can run at and past a player, someone who can get 1 on 1 with a full back and drag a CB out of the box creating space for forwards. Osman can do none of the above without falling over. I believe I would describe him as the "gifted child, lost in a Man's world"
Of course Moyes doesn't say those things but he picks him every week regardless.
"winger" for me means someone who can run at and past a player, someone who can get 1 on 1 with a full back and drag a CB out of the box creating space for forwards. Osman can do none of the above without falling over. I believe I would describe him as the "gifted child, lost in a Man's world"
Tony J Williams
40 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:07:30
40 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:07:30
Andrew, he is probably, along with Baines, the only player we have who will actually take on a man, hence him being in position to get the non-penalty.
Winger means a player who plays on the wing, it doesn't specify that he has to beat a man. Beckham was a good winger but never beat a man, he selected to get the quick cross in instead.
He is played on the wing and is skillful, he certainly isn't a defensive midfielder.
He also only picks them every week, as there is no-one else to pick from.
Saha is finished but he is still better than Stracula and Anichebe (not last night though)
As I posted earlier, he would have sent most of our starting XI packing already if he could afford replacements.
Winger means a player who plays on the wing, it doesn't specify that he has to beat a man. Beckham was a good winger but never beat a man, he selected to get the quick cross in instead.
He is played on the wing and is skillful, he certainly isn't a defensive midfielder.
He also only picks them every week, as there is no-one else to pick from.
Saha is finished but he is still better than Stracula and Anichebe (not last night though)
As I posted earlier, he would have sent most of our starting XI packing already if he could afford replacements.
Mick Gallagher
41 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:19:24
41 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:19:24
Osman for when he starts should be in the middle, hasnt got the pace for the winger but looks good in the centre.
Tony J Williams
42 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:24:07
42 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:24:07
I completely agree Mick.
Andrew Laird
43 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:16:06
43 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:16:06
Do you honestly think he would of sent them packing if he could? Hibbert and Osman have been here longer than him!!
By your definition Osman is a winger... until he drifts inside looking for the ball, then what is he? a passenger.
Beckham never has been or will be a "winger", Giggs was though.
By your definition Osman is a winger... until he drifts inside looking for the ball, then what is he? a passenger.
Beckham never has been or will be a "winger", Giggs was though.
Tony J Williams
44 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:25:12
44 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:25:12
And until last night, Hibbert was probably one of our most consistent performers this season. His crosses have been as good as Baines (ie both shite)
Osman is not a winger but when playing on the wing he is called one.
Osman is not a winger but when playing on the wing he is called one.
Guy Wilkinson
45 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:19:35
45 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:19:35
Tony, Osman is not a winger.
Sam Hoare
46 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:27:31
46 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:27:31
Andrew, i hate seeing neville in CM but i really don't think there are that many other options. I'm sure if Barkley were doing it in training he would be in with a shot.
Why do you think Moyes played 442 last night? Because we have no fit central midfielders. The only thing i might have done was to put osman in the middle instead of Neville and Billy on the wing. But Billy has been awful all season so its six of one half a dozen of another....
Why do you think Moyes played 442 last night? Because we have no fit central midfielders. The only thing i might have done was to put osman in the middle instead of Neville and Billy on the wing. But Billy has been awful all season so its six of one half a dozen of another....
Mike Rourke
47 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:23:39
47 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:23:39
"Saha is finished but he is still better than Stracula and Anichebe (not last night though)"
Couldn't possibly disagree more. Cannot accept even faint praise of King Louis' current abilities.
Saha is, in my opinion, the worst player currently on our books by a country mile ( and yes I am aware of the presence of Phil Neville and that Jimmy Mac has returned )
I thought Count Straqavariulinsky looked almost 'alright' against West Brum and even Big Crap Vic Anichebe, y'know, scored a winning goal in that game.
The last time I thought Saha looked good he was in a Fulham shirt. Total shite, and I would feel considerably better if he would kindly hand in his retirement papers - although I feel certain that as he went to sign them he would probably scuff his signature in to the desk sending the fountain pen flying in to row Z.
Couldn't possibly disagree more. Cannot accept even faint praise of King Louis' current abilities.
Saha is, in my opinion, the worst player currently on our books by a country mile ( and yes I am aware of the presence of Phil Neville and that Jimmy Mac has returned )
I thought Count Straqavariulinsky looked almost 'alright' against West Brum and even Big Crap Vic Anichebe, y'know, scored a winning goal in that game.
The last time I thought Saha looked good he was in a Fulham shirt. Total shite, and I would feel considerably better if he would kindly hand in his retirement papers - although I feel certain that as he went to sign them he would probably scuff his signature in to the desk sending the fountain pen flying in to row Z.
Sam Hoare
48 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:48:18
48 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:48:18
The simple reality is that our squad is lacking. In general depth and also in the first team striking department. Last night we suffered from both shortfalls. Moyes is far from faultless but last season's squad has been decimated with no or little funds given back to him for re-investment.
Tony Watson
49 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:53:44
49 Posted 05/01/2012 at 14:53:44
Saha - contributes nothing
Neville - contributes nothing
Gueye - contributes nothing
Cahill - contributes nothing
But for that fluke, we could not have scored in a brothel last night.
2 defenders for our central midfield at home against the bottom of the table team is ridiculous.
Tamworth must fancy their chances for Saturday.
Neville - contributes nothing
Gueye - contributes nothing
Cahill - contributes nothing
But for that fluke, we could not have scored in a brothel last night.
2 defenders for our central midfield at home against the bottom of the table team is ridiculous.
Tamworth must fancy their chances for Saturday.
Andrew Laird
50 Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:39:15
50 Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:39:15
Sam, forget training, surely the players should be judged on MATCHDAYS!!. If a 35 year old Neville is the best option at centre midfield throughout the entire squad and youth set up we might as well scrap the youth and reserve teams and save some money.
Moyes would rather keep his tried and trusted in the team (with at least 6 defenders on at all times whoever we play) than give game time to young talents with a point to prove. It's obvious why he does it, they all have his negative anti football tactics ingrained in them to keep defending for 90 minutes.
Moyes would rather keep his tried and trusted in the team (with at least 6 defenders on at all times whoever we play) than give game time to young talents with a point to prove. It's obvious why he does it, they all have his negative anti football tactics ingrained in them to keep defending for 90 minutes.
Chris Rudd
51 Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:47:59
51 Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:47:59
The irony of it is, Andrew, that Neville and Heitinga demonstrated last night that they can't defend to save their lives!
Dour negativity is bad enough when it achieves results, when it doesn't it's insane. And this season it simply isn't.
Dour negativity is bad enough when it achieves results, when it doesn't it's insane. And this season it simply isn't.
Jimmy Sørheim
52 Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:39:54
52 Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:39:54
There is not much we can do as fans. Either protest, walk away, or stay and support.
I feel I need a brake from Moyes and Kenwright, it is all so depressing.
I hope the Bu can get a protest going very soon, before the window closes.
I feel I need a brake from Moyes and Kenwright, it is all so depressing.
I hope the Bu can get a protest going very soon, before the window closes.
Tom Hughes
53 Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:58:30
53 Posted 05/01/2012 at 15:58:30
It's alright asking the BU to stage another protest march, but will people get off their arses and attend, instead of staying in the alehouse and/or clapping as they pass? Will some of the thousands who have now walked away, turn up to back them?
There is nothing really different from the time of the last march, except a few more crap performances on the pitch. The reasons for those poor performances were obvious long before that even....... Will those who have been pre-occupied in slagging BU while Rome burned, finally swallow their pride? My feelings are that the club's PR offensive did too good a job on too many, and what we're left with is apathy and resignation.... too much despondency and not enough outrage. Our support has become a total damp squib! Mission accomplished agent Ross.....
There is nothing really different from the time of the last march, except a few more crap performances on the pitch. The reasons for those poor performances were obvious long before that even....... Will those who have been pre-occupied in slagging BU while Rome burned, finally swallow their pride? My feelings are that the club's PR offensive did too good a job on too many, and what we're left with is apathy and resignation.... too much despondency and not enough outrage. Our support has become a total damp squib! Mission accomplished agent Ross.....
Ian McPherson
54 Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:14:44
54 Posted 05/01/2012 at 16:14:44
I don't think as fans were united that we have hit rock bottom. There is still alot of support for Moyes and Knewright in the ground and on TW.
Moyes is more and more projecting himself as the victim and that "B" actor Kenwright, who is stupid enough to believe a word that comes out of his mouth?
Last night was rock bottom once again, 11 players completely unorganised running around chasing the ball like a bunch of under 10's. I don't get upset anymore just facing reality that were fucked and we can't all do something about it together.
Moyes is more and more projecting himself as the victim and that "B" actor Kenwright, who is stupid enough to believe a word that comes out of his mouth?
Last night was rock bottom once again, 11 players completely unorganised running around chasing the ball like a bunch of under 10's. I don't get upset anymore just facing reality that were fucked and we can't all do something about it together.
Dick Fearon
55 Posted 05/01/2012 at 20:31:53
55 Posted 05/01/2012 at 20:31:53
He sets his team out to play a dour defensive style then says we do not 'entertain'.
Phil Rodgers
56 Posted 05/01/2012 at 07:50:29
56 Posted 05/01/2012 at 07:50:29
Seconded. If we don't sign anyone this month then surely nobody can support kenwright any longer
Martin Mason
57 Posted 06/01/2012 at 03:35:08
57 Posted 06/01/2012 at 03:35:08
I think many are missing the point of what has happened. I don't believe it's just BK or BK and Moyes and that all we need is a change of management. I believe that what we have seen is Everton almost gain critical mass with a good squad and some hope but I believe that ended when we sold Lescott. That earmarked the club for what it is, broke and with no means of ever making the step forward that it looked we could make a few years back. No new board can help EFC unless we can find an idiot billionaire and these don't exist, no new manager can help because you can't make a consistently good side when you have a squad as weak and shallow as ours is. We are very lucky that we've got points on the board because we are in desperate trouble and relegation is not out of the question.
I have always said that as customers the only way to initiate change is to stop buying the product and I still maintain that. The board will sell if people stop going and without that they will never sell.
I have always said that as customers the only way to initiate change is to stop buying the product and I still maintain that. The board will sell if people stop going and without that they will never sell.
Roberto Birquet
58 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:40:49
58 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:40:49
And the reason I don?t sympathise with all of those 29,561, is because some of those in the crowd have sat by, or been actively involved in, the wilful dismantling of a once great sporting institution.
-----------------
Actually they are paying money that keeps the Club a little above water. Gate receipts are down 20% 2009 to 2011.
This is truly serious. The fottbqall is worful, and we have no discernible Premier League strikers. It's frightening.
-----------------
Actually they are paying money that keeps the Club a little above water. Gate receipts are down 20% 2009 to 2011.
This is truly serious. The fottbqall is worful, and we have no discernible Premier League strikers. It's frightening.
Paul Gladwell
59 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:30:00
59 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:30:00
You can say we cannot play 442 like that clown Graeme Sharp was claiming, but what do you expect if he plays two defenders in the centre mid?
How come teams like Norwich came to our place playing 442?
We had two centre mids on the bench and one out wide with two defenders in that position.
You are going to create fuck all with them two in the middle and that was the reason our keeper and defence played hoofball all game because we had two centre mids who actually struggle to control a football nevermind take it off the back four and build from the back.
Osman should have been in there and if Rodwell was not fit then why did he throw him on before Cahill?
Cahill has been getting stick but half of that is because he has been playing as our most advanced player and that is not what he is good at,Moyes destroys players confidence by playing men out of position and this has gone on for years.
How come teams like Norwich came to our place playing 442?
We had two centre mids on the bench and one out wide with two defenders in that position.
You are going to create fuck all with them two in the middle and that was the reason our keeper and defence played hoofball all game because we had two centre mids who actually struggle to control a football nevermind take it off the back four and build from the back.
Osman should have been in there and if Rodwell was not fit then why did he throw him on before Cahill?
Cahill has been getting stick but half of that is because he has been playing as our most advanced player and that is not what he is good at,Moyes destroys players confidence by playing men out of position and this has gone on for years.
Robbie Muldoon
60 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:53:10
60 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:53:10
4-4-2 with a right back and centre half playing central midfield! Say it over and over!
On another note, did anybody see the argument Distin was involved in with a supporter on Twitter last night?
On another note, did anybody see the argument Distin was involved in with a supporter on Twitter last night?
Tony J Williams
61 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:55:21
61 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:55:21
How many games has Neville played at right back? Compare that to him playing in midfield and I would wager that the number of games he has played in midfield will be more than right back.
What was the argument about?
What was the argument about?
Paul Joy
62 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:47:31
62 Posted 06/01/2012 at 12:47:31
Never mind asking the Blue Union for more protests I wonder if they have got any players.
The standard of play being served up by the players and manager are the worst I have paid good money to see during David Moyes time.
In particular the centre midfield of Heitinga and Neville is just defensive - well it would be because they are both defenders. Them 2 in the centre and 2 centre midfielders stuck out on the flanks!!!
Saha just can't be arsed anymore.
Cahill can be arsed but has lost his mojo since that foot injury.
Bily, Gueye and Denis are not good enough.
Drenthe could be a real asset but can't sort himself out.
We are in a real mess this season and show no signs of improvement.
The standard of play being served up by the players and manager are the worst I have paid good money to see during David Moyes time.
In particular the centre midfield of Heitinga and Neville is just defensive - well it would be because they are both defenders. Them 2 in the centre and 2 centre midfielders stuck out on the flanks!!!
Saha just can't be arsed anymore.
Cahill can be arsed but has lost his mojo since that foot injury.
Bily, Gueye and Denis are not good enough.
Drenthe could be a real asset but can't sort himself out.
We are in a real mess this season and show no signs of improvement.
Robbie Muldoon
63 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:03:36
63 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:03:36
No offence Tony, just saying what a lot of people think, fuck off.
Tony J Williams
64 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:02:11
64 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:02:11
Paul, we also need to ask them if they have a few bob to spare too.
Danny Jones
65 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:03:51
65 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:03:51
For a start, Nick, Everton is not your football club: it is the club you choose to support,or more accurately, choose not to support.
Having said that, I agree with some of your comments, particularly about Saha, and rather hypocritcally, I'm not bothering to come up for the Tamworth game.
Having said that, I agree with some of your comments, particularly about Saha, and rather hypocritcally, I'm not bothering to come up for the Tamworth game.
Tony J Williams
66 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:14:55
66 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:14:55
"No offence Tony, just saying what a lot of people think, fuck off." - Eh?
Andrew Laird
67 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:20:45
67 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:20:45
Robbie, a bit harsh on Tony. You have now undermined your opinions through not having the wit or intellect to respond.
Chris Perry
68 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:26:27
68 Posted 06/01/2012 at 13:26:27
In response to Tom Watson, post 49, My friend comes from Tamworth and believe me they are not in the slightest concerned about Everton, they will go gung ho and attack, they will aslo win every ball, second ball etc because they are hungry and because they will be up against shite like Neville. I think its pretty much taken for granted that Everton are cluless and just how clueless we are will be shown against a team 14 in their leauge.
I dont believe that loosing to Tamworth will be that bad as hopefully that dumb MF Kenwright will see that he and the ginger one must leave the club.
I dont believe that loosing to Tamworth will be that bad as hopefully that dumb MF Kenwright will see that he and the ginger one must leave the club.
Tony J Williams
69 Posted 06/01/2012 at 16:04:37
69 Posted 06/01/2012 at 16:04:37
Don't worry Andrew, internet hardmen don't worry me.
Freedom of speech is great and I won't be fucking off any time soon.
Still would like to know what the Dintin argument on twatter was all about
Freedom of speech is great and I won't be fucking off any time soon.
Still would like to know what the Dintin argument on twatter was all about
Roman Sidey
70 Posted 08/01/2012 at 05:25:20
70 Posted 08/01/2012 at 05:25:20
Robert Elliott, without know the conjugation rules of the ancient lingo, Transite ad me laqueo, velit.
It wasn't as much an argument on Twitter. One fella said it would have been better if we went out so we could concentrate on the league. Syl just asked him if he was for real.
It wasn't as much an argument on Twitter. One fella said it would have been better if we went out so we could concentrate on the league. Syl just asked him if he was for real.
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1 Posted 05/01/2012 at 07:50:29