£5 Million against £50 Thousand?

A friend of mine actually got me a ticket for that game too, shame I didn't bump into you Mick.

I agree, it was refreshing to see a team leave 1 or 2 men up when Macclesfield were defending a corner then break at pace (see their 1st goal). It was refreshing to see a home side actually play like the home side even though they are placed 2 divisions below.

I think football is a simple game hence why we all know so much about it. The most successful managers are those who keep it simple. When I watch Man U, there's nothing complicated or even intricate about the way they play.

It's these managers such as Mcleish, Moyes, Coyle, Steve Bruce that are considered 'master tacticians' yet the football they serve up is dour and boring. Moyes overcomplicates the game focussing on finer details and complicating players' minds so they play with fear. Everton under Moyes have always looked constrained and held back. Even during his most successful spell we were still only winning games 1 nil. And just look at the likes of Arteta and Yakubu now they've had their shackles removed.

There's no doubt the same old posters on here (Dave Wilson et al) will still all bleat on about the wonderful job Moyes has done but there are dozens of better unheard of managers doing a better job than him lower down the divisions. Unfortunately they will never get the chance Moyes was given at Everton. Too many of our own fan base are paralyzed by fear of change. You never know, a change might just bring about something positive but I doubt that change will ever happen.

You both went to watch another team...

Alan Clarke - you think I`m going to comment about the game you chose over Everton`s? Forget it, not interested, too busy preparing for WHL.

It's not so much that you people want ot forget that we twatted Bolton at their place and focus on the match we lost. It's the fact that you think you can compare a Premier League game to an attempted Giant killing.

Get back to me when you're not comparing apples to oranges or when Macclesfield ever apply themselves to the extent where giving everything they've got for 90 minutes against a Prem team isn't the highlight of their season.

Let's hope they draw another Prem team in the next five years, you can arrange to go together next time.

Now, Dave, that's a little unfair. Macclesfield is far enough to travel once a week let alone twice in such a short time. Maybe cost came into the decision.

I didn't go to the Tamworth match either. I have a season ticket but after the Bolton match I decided I could spend the £30 in a better way and didn't think a 100-mile round trip was worth it. Everton didn't come to see me when I was bad.

It's about entertainment, isn't it?

I used the Tamworth match to try and 'blood' the youngster; easy win, lots of goals and passing etc.... Oops. I've seem him more entertained watching Bangor in the Welsh Premier and I know how he feels.

Yeah, the result is the main thing of course, but I don't pay £500 a year for the results ? they're free on SSN. I pay to be entertained by the team I love. That sadly isn't happening and I'm struggling to justify next years expense to be honest....

Don't blame the lads for watching another local team (that isn't a rival!), a break from the dour crap we get to see week-in & week-out!

Macclesfield away.. round 4 then..

Fair enough Ray.

I wouldnt condemn anybody for not having the stomach for yesterdays game, certainly people whjo have to travel.

But Alan Clarke could have made his point without naming me. I dont even mind that, it was the fact that he tried to misrepresent me, I dont think Moyes is doing a wonderful Job, but I will give him 100% support while he is our manager and I will never subscribe to suggestions like this one.

Been there and done that ground thank you...

I don't think it was a bad gate considering how badly we have played this year... and I agree with Mick, we are so boring it is starting to drive regular match-goers away.

Moyes is only considered a "master technician" because he fooled some dipshits into hiring him. That's it... Literally - and I mean literally - 9 out of 10 of us on this site could coach this team in just the same way and 3 out of 10 could probably do better. (Imagine working with professionals day in and day out and showcasing that shite every Saturday - what in the HELL are they actually working on???)

The Macclesfield goals (esp. the second) were sublime. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the highlights.

We need to think of a real plan to get rid of this lot. A march here and there isn't cutting it. It just isn't.

"If you love the club - take it back" I say to all of us who are taken to tears by this utter fiasco. Imagine what the history books will say in 30, 40 years.... total charlatans, every last one of them.

Dave Wilson

Regarding Moyes,Dave, I have always supported him and I've even used the old "but who would you get that's better" argument, but I'm now fed up with his dour and negative approach,not to mention his demeanour. I would now even question his integrity , with regard to his blind support of Kenwright.I don't know why Moyes doesn't come out and complain loudly at the lack of investment and tell us all straight why he hasn't improved the squad if there is supposed to be some of the Arteta money available. Or does £65k a week render one dumb?.

Ray you said it best on another post : "...Moyes should be taken out and shot" --

I've been thinking that for a long while but glad you said it...

Mark #5, Dave Jones drew us at home to Fulham.

Liverpool v Man U though, wonder if Suarez will be back?

for the overseas blus we've got Fulham @ home the RS have got Man U @ home

Christopher Kelly.

I'd had a Clarkson moment...

Doesn't take money to have a go and try to play attacking football. The Maccelsfield game just shows up how negative our tactics are. They 2 divisions below ours so you would think that our players are also capable of playing better football if the tactics allowed them to......

Nothing new here I guess and the same statements have been made many times on this site by many people. Moyes' contract I believe ends in summer 2013 and I hope he will have enough integrity to walk away if the club does not offer a means to improve the squad before then (or even walk before). 3.65m a year is a large amount to walk away from before hand...

Only issue for me is that I think he has reached the highest he will management wise and cannot picture a 'bigger' club that Everton giving him a contract. If he can only get offers from 'lesser' clubs, would he walk before/at all?

Just cannot see Spurs coming in for him once 'arry takes the England job in the summer - would be fantastic though, would bring them back down to our level for a bit!

Snore!!! Who else was moyes meant to play against Bolton??!! Barkley was injured and we saw Billy play CM yesterday...atrocious.

He had an injury ravaged squad that then suffered 3 more injuries during the match. Perhaps if kenwright gave him some funds to buy a couple more players....

Sam, who wasted funds on Bily in the first place?

Paul, show me the manager who hasn't bought any duds over a ten year period...

Ray

Do you really need Moyes to come out and say why he hasnt improved the squad ? to tell us their is no money ? I find that surprising beause he regularly gets slaughtered for complaing he doesnt have an.

Denis

The problem I have with your point is, that Moyes regularly finished above Spurs, its only the last couple of seasons when they have spent plenty and Moyes has spent nothing -absolutely nothing - that they have finally managed to climb above him.
Also Denis. If there are so many better managers out there, why do you suppose none of the 13/14 teams that finish below us every year havent snapped one of them up ?

Paul #15 wih the beneft of hindsight, its clear that the Bily money was wasted, but there have been many top quality players who didnt adapt to English Football, Bily is the latest . .but I dont remember anyone up in arms when he signed.

Moyes has made the odd poor signing - show me a manager who hasnt - , but I believe if you look at the signings of Howard, Baines, Jagielka, Arteta, Lescott, Pienaar, Cahill, Saha, then you have to agree he gets it right more often than not . .even with the benefit if Hindsight

Slight change of subject.

How many supporters do you believe we may have that would find a £2k investment an acceptable sum to salvage this great club?? Would 50,000 go a long way towards buying back the club?

With average attendances of 30,000 there must be some that could not afford it BUT there would certainly be others that could afford a lot more.

Sod the Shieks the Yanks and the Indians... KEIOC, let's dig deep and get out of this mire. £100M on the table would be a lot of wonga and certain people would have to sit up and take notice to that sort of offer ? if they didn't at least we would know where we stand... and also where they stand.

Sorry if this sounds garbbled.

So we have a side in the next round who have never beaten us in the Premier League era on our turf. Lets roar this lot to another victory and show them that being positive and going for it can work and we will support them when they do it.

Sure Sam but why sell players and then not reinforce the area and then complain that there are not enough strikers??? What world do we live in where the manager doesn't get taken to task by the media over these transactions??? No one ever questions the man. Yakubu has 12 fuckin goals!! We as a team have 20. We kind of could use those dontcha fink

IMO
9 times out of 10 Bolton,despite their poor form right now, would beat Macclesfield.

As for David Moyes I believe he has given excellent service to Everton and the supporters and we should remember that with respect.

However I believe the pressure of having a board so unwilling and unable to support him has finally caught up with him and he looks a beaten man.

I also believe the spirit has been sucked out of a lot of the squad who have played with their heart on their sleeves and probably through injury for much of their Everton career.

I believe there is only one man to blame for this situation and the is one Bill Kenwright whose arrogance, deceipt and incomptetence surpasses any other chairman I have ever known.

I hope David Moyes is allowed to go with dignity because I believe he will walk at the end of his contract if not sooner.

Moyes at his best is ordinary, money wouldn't make any difference he hasn't the ability to go beyond a holding game with journeymen of minimal skill, pace and no movement.

A purple patch with Donovan showed what was possible, he should have traded Bily, Jonny or A.N. Other to get him or equivalent in the next transfer window. Dithering or discomfort with attacking (Moyes didn't always start Donovan) meant he didn't and the defining moment evaporated.

Unsurprisingly we've returned to his comfort zone and day to day meandering, but "best of the rest" via the water torture that watching Everton has become is sacrosanct - why isn't there a trophy for it?

Spot on Jay Harris.

Sam Hoare - the question is not who Moyes should play, the question is how the players he plays should play.

Jay Harris ? exactly correct, he is a broken man.

Nick ? exactly, does Moyes tell Jagielka to hoof it out of touch 60 yards down the field everytime he touches it?
Does he tell Neville and Hibbert to give the ball away frequently?
Does he tell our midfield to pass sideways all day?
Does he tell Saha not to show an interest in getting the ball?
You could argue he picks them but from what I can see what options does he have to alter it?

Those asking for 4-4-2, it failed against a team at the bottom of the league. Those asking for Bily in his "proper position", it failed against a team not even in the leagues.

I was wondering how much of a part Steve Round plays in the way we play. It took much negotiation and the paying of compensation to his previous club before Moyes was able to sign him.
As the assistant coach he will share responsibility for getting the players 'up' for games but where does his influence end.

He mutters a lot into his head set and Moyes is often seen to be consulting him.
When Round arrived he was touted as being an expert and keen user of technology in players preparation.
A number of comments above have suggested that our players are over methodical in the way they play.
Could that be because they have to conform with a Steve Round computerized version of the game.

Dave Wilson
@18.

Dave, Moyes can come out and tell us as many times as he likes that we have no money, because, on just as many occasions, he will tell us that there IS money to spend. He has contradicted himself on several occasions to this effect. I have tried to continue to give him my support but he just seems to be,to me anyway, a "yes" man now, a puppet to Kenwright who pulls the strings. He no longer has my respect. OK, that will mean naff all to him whilst he trousers £65k a week, but it does to fans who can see him as a shadow of the man he was.

Sam / Dave (18), think you're missing my point. A lot of the reasons put forward by some people for our 'style' of play is the lack of funds for Moyes to buy players.

Maccelsfield managed to play attractive football against Bolton. Regardless of how little money Moyes has had, every player in the Everton 1st team squad and reserve team should be much better than any Maccelsfield player (no offence to Maccelsfield) - hence my point being that money should not be an excuse for not trying to play football. Same with the Tamworth game although I will just take being in the next round.

Re Spurs, I was of course talking about now - yes they are much better than us and have finished above us in the last 2 seasons and will do this season too and likely for the forseeable future until there is a drastic change at Everton.

Moyes was the right manager at the right time, ten years ago..... Time moves on and change is inevitable.

Seconded there, re: Sam missing the point by a mile. "Who else should Moyes have played against Bolton?" Was never the intended point made by Mick.

Any Twitter users may have seen a very telling quote this morning by none other than our club captain. I'm not a "tweeter" but do read it. Here goes:

"Warnock sacked thought he was doing a very good job"

That is what Phil Neville just wrote. They are sitting 17th, one point above relegation, and have won nought since the middle of November.

This is the attitude of the CAPTAIN of Everton FC. Says a lot about the entire mindset now doesn't it.

Bob Willis #19, TrustEverton are supposed to be organising that but they've gone very quiet.

Strange to tell David Hallwood but most of us overseas 'Blus', as you put it, have that "InterWeb thingy" so can actually get the FA Cup draw news at exactly the same time as you can. We also use the 'InterWeb thingy' to follow the 'Blus' on the BBC Live feed and ToffeeWeb Live Forum when we are not actually watching the game LIVE on TV that is.

Hey, Bob Willis, before you go giving money to EFC, shouldn't you pay your uncle Albert back that 5 pounds you owe him?

@ Denis Richardson # 28 so Dour Davey and Billy Liar selling our experienced forwards and keeping crocked Anichebe and the hopelessly out of form Cahill and the useless Saha have nothing to do with Evertons abysmal performances has it? I mean we went TWO whole games without a single shot on target so tell us Dennis how to win games when you cant even get a shot on target?

So the People's Club gets taken over buy the people. Let's say we can buy the club for its net worth ? assets less liabilities. Anyone got a balance sheet? If it's got a negative cash flow then you can't value it on times earnings. So how about 20,000 true blues finding say £5k so we raise £100M... then what?

Where do we get another £60-70mil to fund players? Next we need a stadium, another £100m+ to refurbish GP. If they are serious about finding a buyer then 20,000 Evertonians can invest in my buyout scheme.

Some excellent comments - thanks. I agree with Alan Clarke @2 who says football is a simple game. To me at home you go out and attack the opposition and try to score goals and thereby win the game. Not exactly rocket science. It makes no difference whether it is in the league or cup or what division you are in.
Macclesfield did that on Saturday against a side 2 divisions above them whereas Everton didnt do that against a team bottom of their own league. The quality of the players doesnt come into it - it is down to the manager and what tactics he chooses.

Peter @34 - am not sure if you are deliberately choosing to miss my point. Will try again.

The current Everton playing staff is significantly better than that of Macclesfield. And yes this is even after taking into account the player sales and the injuries. Given this, please explain how Macclesfield managed to play the game properly agains Bolton but we could not?

Again I repeat myself, money (or lack of) should not be an excuse for the 'style' of football we play. Not sure I can make myself any clearer than that.

(Also if you're going to start on about player sales being the reason for the negative tactics, maybe you can explain to me why Arteta played a number of games last season in a deep lying central defensive midfielder role, about 10 yards ahead of the defence?)

Moyes has always been a very defensive minded coach (cannot ever remember another coach/team playing without a recognised striker for so many games (even when strikers were fit!)), lack of cash is not the reason for this.

Mick, the problem with the simplistic idea of attack, attack, attack is that the other side actually employ tactics to counteract your tactics and sometimes use your own tactics against you.

Posters so often have the one "surprising" result of the round/league to suggest that it always works. It doesn't and our defensive manager knows that and is obviously wary of our low points total, our ever useless forward line, and our lack of any creative players, so sets his team up to, primarily, not lose and see where we are going from there.

His stats show that it works more than it doesn't. I may not like it, but it has been semi-successful for him in the past.

Tony, would you be happy to carry on watching this style of football for the next 5-10 years, or would you like a change? (Which realisticaly will only come about with a change in manager and not funds).

If there is no improvement I personally will eventually resort to just checking for Evertons results on a Saturday and not bother wasting my time watching any of the games - life really is too short. I need a much better excuse to justify spending Saturday afternoons watching Everton instead of spending time with the missus - the crap being served up now (and lets be honest for a long long time) really doesn't cut it. If that makes be a 'lesser' fan in some people's eyes, so be it.

Will see where we are come end of the season.

Thomas (26) - Moyes doesn't force the players to do what they do, but ultimately its his "coaching" and tactics and feedback allow it to continue.

Moyes isn't a new manager who's just walked into the job. He's been here for 10 years, rubber stamped every player who's been bought, or sold and decided which contracts to renew.

If Neville isn't doing what Moyes wants him to then I would've expected moyes to take 'arry's £1M and free up £40k / week off our wage bill. Same for Jags who Moyes could've got £10M for but chose to keep.

We can see how ruthless he is with players he doesn't rate. Barkley gives away 1 penalty and Moyes deems him unsuited to top flight football and relegates him to a season in the reserves. Yobo and Yak both forced out of the club for fuck knows what.

Moyes has had YEARS to coach all the players we have, move on the ones he doesn't rate and keep the remainder. Yet every week the players play like they've never met each other before.

We can assume that Kenwright is guilty of allowing Moyes to overspend, resulting in a few years of player sales to balance the books, but as our wage bill comes down to a more manageable level, I would expect Moyes to be able to see more of any transfer money generated.

Whatever you say about Kenwright's lack of financial support, Moyes is ultimately responsible for the dross dished up. Look at the tamworth game for evidence. No arguments there who has the better players and resources, yet non-league semi-pro Tamworth end up with over 1/3 of the possession and 11 shots to our 14. For lots of the game we were camped in our own half and were fortunate for two set-piece goals to beat them.

Whenever I watch Everton play under Moyes I could be forgiven for thinking we had 10 central defenders out there, because that's how they play. Static, scared, clueless going forward, no ambition to win. I find the idea of more years under Moyes' tenure utterly depressing.

I understand a lot of the grief Moyes gets on here. Being too negative in team selection and having everyone back at corners. What I can't understand from quite a few on here is the free pass you give to the players. Surely Moyes doesn't train Johnny to shit out of tackles all week, or train Saha to scuff a shot on goal from 3 yards out and constantly walk around like he doesn't give a fuck.

I know we've been shocking this year but I'm not having it that it's all Moyes fault. I know he bought them and he trains them but they are big boys on obscene amounts of money and surely to fuck, my 9 year old lad could have took charge this week and we still should have beat Tamworth.

Moyes said something along the lines of he started 9 international players and brought 2 more on. If they need to be shown or told how to pass and move, take free-kicks and throw ins and generally play football better than Tamworth then they should just pack it all in. Every player in our squad, and Moyes need to sort their fuckin heads out and stop moping around and feeling sorry for themselves. It's too miserable supporting Everton these days.

Jamie.

If Saha isn't on the pitch he's got very little chance of scuffing a shot. I'll amend that. He's got NO chance of scuffing a shot.

So don't pick him. And the sooner your 9 year old lad has got his coaching badges get him in the dug out instead of Round.

Mick #36

You say "its not rocket science" then go on to draw the most incredible conclusion. Do you not understand the culture of the FA cup ?

The competition has gained world wide notoriety down the years for its unpredictability, Its a competition where the little team - who`s players arent quite up to making a living in the top flight - traditionally pray for a plum draw against "one of the big boys" and if they get their plum draw, they usually go out and have a right good go at the "top flight posers".
Most of the time they dont succeed, but every year we have upsets, nobody sees them coming, but there have been literally hundreds of them down the years.
The bigger clubs often bring this "embarressment" on themselves through complacency or by under estimating the "lesser team" . .it`s alway been that way.

Now criticising Moyes is one thing, but to try to criticise him because you witnessed a smaller team having a "right good go! in the cup is about as pointless as it gets.

Its not Rocket science you say ; then by using your logic every manager in the premioership should hang his head in shame for finishing below Man Untited these past couple of seasons . .lets face it, if Leeds, Coventry and Palace can all do them in the cup competitions they must be crap

Tony J, you make a good point with "attack, attack etc". The attack at home defend away is out dated moribund nonsense. Every game, home or away, should see the coach come up with something that the opposition just might not expect.

I believe that David Moyes does this; unfortunately though, not in in a way that surprises the opposition but in a way that PLEASANTLY surprises them.

Jamie(41) - I'm not sure people do give a free pass to the players. I for one know the players aren't performing, but I've worked in my industry for managers like Moyes and I wouldn't be motivated to perform for them if I were in the players' shoes.

Almost all of us on here would give our right arm to play for the club, motivation should not be an issue. But if you were consistently played out of position, handicapped by shit tactics and demotivated by Moyes fantastic 'Knives to a Gunfight' speeches, wouldn't you be lacking in confidence? Especially with 35,000 Evertonians on you back every week calling you a lazy C**T for what ultimately are your managers failings?

Are we saying then that the players are mostly responsible for our shit form and shit football? Our football has been generally shit since Moyes took over, with the exception of literally a handful of matches.

Long-balls, slow build-up, one dimensional. Offset in some years by results built on a bedrock of a tight defence and knowing we always might sneak a goal. So I think we can safely say that our football is always likely to be shit under Moyes. Most reasonable fans will accept that if results are good.

Now, shit form. All the players are here because of Moyes. If they're not playing for him then the obvious conclusion he's either lost the dressing room or the players completely lack any confidence.

I think its highly likely that several players just dont get on with him and will be looking to leave when they can. Bily, Saha spring to mind, and I'll be shocked if Barkley continues his positivity if Moyes continues to ignore him and play Neville who does nothing to be playing ahead of him. Other players are probably just lacking confidence.

So for the players who need motivation, would Moyes motivate you? He motivates me, but in a negative way. If I think I we can get a result against a team, 5 minutes listening to Moyes makes me think we have no chance. Watching the subs he makes and the tactics he chooses also demotivates me and makes me think he has absolutely no belief that we can do anything.

Most of the players who've grown up around Moyes probably treat him as a father figure. Don't underestimate how his mentality transfers to our younger, more impressionable players.

Is it any wonder we look scared shitless and devoid of confidence and ideas every week no matter who we're playing? We are ultimately a reflection of our manager and that's not going to change until he goes.

I am not sure that I can agree we have been shite for years. We have played some good stuff during spells in each of the last severalseasons. We were nicknamed "Arsenal light" because we moved it round well, only to be a little inept in front of goal.

We tried but ultimately failed to scale the heights five years ago and we are now paying the price of failure in the most expensive playground on the football planet.

I can't understand why people expect Moyes or the players to be at all motivated whilst working under the current regime. Whilst money is enough on its own to motivate some people, it doesn't work that way for everyone. For a lot of us success is a much bigger driving force, and for the first 7 or 8 years of the Moyes era Everton was a team that was on the verge of success. Moyes was different then, the players went out on the pitch and gave everything, and sometimes we played really nice football.

What has changed now is that the board has taken away any chance of progression by selling our best attacking players and not replacing them.

Try to imagine having to maintain standards in your job, whilst headoffice take away some of your tools. A carpenter losing all of your electric tools, a factory worker losing all of the conveyor belts on the production line, a surveyor losing his partner and having to do the measurements with the red and white stick on his own. At first you would try your hardest but slowly you would become frustrated and slow down. A healthy pay rise may raise your enthusiasm for a time, but the frustration would return, your motivation would fade and your performance would drop off again.

I've seen it happen in so many industries and the only way it can change is if the changes come at the very top.

"the problem with the simplistic idea of attack, attack, attack is that the other side actually employ tactics to counteract your tactics and sometimes use your own tactics against you."

The "other side" being all sides except Everton, Tony?

Moyes plays the same tactics against EVERY team. That is my biggest gripe with him.

Moyes out.

Steve Pugh, the only way anyone would stay and work under those conditions is if they knew they were unemployable if they walked from their position, or at least very unlikely to get a similar job somewhere else.

Is this the case for Moyes? (I think he's earning more now than he ever will, by a shit load), The players? If so, then they are where they deserve to be. If not, they should do the honourable thing and leave.

Jay #22 - spot on post

Wayne, I don't think it will change if he goes. The whole club from the top to the bottom is miserable. We could get the next bright young manager in but for what? To be told he has to sell his best couple of players before he starts, although he can get a couple of loan players or a gamble on a couple of kids to replace them. We'd be lucky if anyone even wanted the job.

Until Kenwright fucks off, that's how it's going to be.

Moyes has been shafted big time by Kenwright and I can't understand why he puts up with it. He should have walked ages ago. I also think he is being let down by certain players who he'd love to fuck off but he can't because it's all we've got.

Tony Williams(26): Regarding the Jag, aside from the agricultural hoof clearance to which he is prone, id say alot of the time he is playing to instruction. Over the last few months theres been very functional football. Deep defensive midfielders and diagonal, corner flag balls being pinged from the back. There was a lot of it in the Wolves home game for example. Percentage football. So yes he is playing to instruction.

We used to do a fair bit of it when Andy Johnson was here, and the season Carsley and Neville played in mid. Its how the team is set up at the minute, grinding, mind numbing and workmanlike to avoid shipping goals, as we never score any!! Hence the 2 defensive centre mids, basically trying to make it impossible to play through us as we have been too easy to play through for about 2 years.

Theres one problem. Its mind numbing.

Roman (48) - "Moyes out".

Moyes in. Managers need the players. Players determine who wins, not managers.

Unless you think Pep would do better with our current side? And if you do, please explain to the rest of us how.

Jamie Barlow #51. Unfortunately you are right and we have had the reputation for a long time as being a bunch of moaners for a long time. The Club is miserable from top to bottom and you only have to read a few lines of this site to want to slit your wrists. The whole thing is cyclical - the supporters feed off the players' performances and they respond to our reactions.

So easy for me to comment from Australia but the only way for us to stand a chance of getting out of this malaise is for 40,000 to turn up at Goodison, get out of their seats and roar the players on.

Doesn't matter what Phil Neville tweets - WE ARE THE CLUB.

James Flynn, if you think it's just down to the players to decide who wins and the Pep Guardiola couldn't do better than Moyes with this lot than you've just shown your complete lack of football knowledge. To even debate with you is pointless.

David Moyes is more than often referred to as a genius with what he has got. This season Moyes said "This is probably the best squad I have ever had." So he has been here what 10 years now? and he has used some serious amounts when given the chance: The Yak, Bily, Fella just a few that come to mind... So let's see:

2002 Won Nothing
2003 Won Nothing
2004 Won Nothing
2005 Won Nothing
2006 Won Nothing
2007 Won Nothing
2008 Won Nothing
2009 Won Nothing
2010 Won Nothing
2011 Won Nothing
2012 Won (to be continued)... I rest my case.

Was that first part a copy and paste from last season Richard? Last year he said he had his best squad.

Since then the board have offloaded Pienaar, Yakubu, Vaughan, Arteta, Beckford and Joseph Yobo. That's most of our attacking players and the only two real creative players we had.

It comes to something when you believe a £9m is a "big" signing in the money mad Premier League.

Fellaini will get us at least teh same money when we sell him, if we have actually paid for him in full by then.

Also, I can't recall many people/posters calling him a genius.

Roman

why is James showing a "complete lack of football knowledge"
I think he`s right Guardiola wouldnt be able to do anything with whats left of our squad.

In fact, I`ll take it a step further, I hink he would take one look at the movement and passing skills of, Hibbert, Jagielka, Coleman, Cahill, Straq, Neville etc and run a fucken mile

The biggest problem facing Moyes this season is the mental one. All the outfield players are playing as poor as I have ever seen them. This season takes it all when it comes to record lows.

Players like Bilyaletdinov, Saha, Cahill, Heitinga, and Fellaini have all showed that there is a huge morale problem among the squad. Motivation to do well is no longer present. It almost seems like they have all given up.

Now, who is to blame??

Moyes, who chooses who to sell, must take the biggest part, but Kenwright has allowed wages to spiral out of control, paying Neville £43k/wk, Saha £55k/wk, Fellaini £70k/wk, examples of no control of wages.

Also, no control on money spent: Yakubu £11.25M; Bilyaletdinov £9.25M; Fellaini £12.9M million. Huge sums for a club like ours, and they would have been better spent being spread out over several years, by investing in the future.

Now it is all out of control the club is buying players such as Green, Vellios and Gueye, but this should have been the original plan 5-10 years ago. Instead, Kenwright has thrown it all out in one go for players we have never heard much of and that cost money we really could not afford to spend. The Fellaini transfer is paid in monthly installments, that has to tell you that Moyes and Kenwright do NOT go well together.

By Moyes wanting more and Kenwright having no long-term plan for this club, all has been handed to Moyes, and he alone has decided the fate of this club because of his over spending on faulty players ? especially the players that cost more then £7-8 million ? Moyes has picked the average ones.

My point is that Moyes has all the power he wants, and he got it when negotiating for his contract. He has said it MANY times himself, "I am the one in control, I decide who will stay or go". And he still is!!!

Dave, fair chop mate. You tailored someone else's hypothetical to suit your own argument.

1. I referred to his claim that managers don't help decide who wins games. Are you saying they don't?

2. I know Pep wouldn't come to Everton, but the point is, given the circumstance, some managers would do better with this squad of players. That is something we cannot prove right or wrong.

Dave, you had been a lot more measured of late and I was starting to have more respect for your opinions. Even though you and James take the same side in the Moyes defense, you do yourself a disservice by backing up his outrageous statements.

Jimmy #59

Which bit of this are you not getting lad ?

KENWRIGHT has got this club in a position where we have to sell to survive. that has nothing to do with Moyes.

What REALLY decides who stays and who goes is outside interest. We recieved bids for Arteta, Beckford, Yakubu and worra ya know they all went . .We did NOT recieve bids for Anichebe, Saha, so much as YOU may want them gone, They are still here.

The only reason Jagielka is still here is that Arsenal took the piss with their bid.

Understand this ; Every Everton players is for sale. there are no exceptions. Every half decent bid will be accepted . .and by continually claiming the manager is responsible for this, you not only make excuses for the chairman, you insult the intelligence of fellow blues

Jimmy, change the record fella. next you will be talking about starting a protest from behind your keyboard again.

Only the most deluded Kenwright supporter would suggest that Moyes was happy to let all those players go. The Yak maybe due to personal reasons (both parties) but he did not want Arteta to go, that's why he rejected the offer and only let him go when the transfer request was handed in.

The banks are dictating the transfers now due to the boards inept handling of the finances. That's why the £18m brought in last window will not be spent on a much needed forward and attacking midfielder.

We will get one more loan deal which maxes us out at 4 and maybe a player worth aboyt £4m (who would realistically be worth £1.5 but the desperation/January window adds more to a players "value")

He still won't get it Dave. He'll read it and it'll go in one ear and out of the other. He'll then go on to spout the same old shite on another thread.